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謝謝主席我想要請陳部長我們再請陳部長陳部長"},{"start":20.128,"end":33.96,"text":"我想請問一下像這一次的這個養豬場所發生的問題那有沒有展開回溯性的調查那這份報告什麼時候可以公佈"},{"start":34.915,"end":64.355,"text":"我想我們從21號發現了以後我們第一時間就是將這個廠所有的移動管制然後全面鋪砂然後開始我們就從周圍的3公里還有它的直接的關聯廠去做調查然後接下來就是這輛車輛本身移動的關聯廠所以我們啟動正式的調查那正式的調查它需要一些時間但是我們每一天在台中前進指揮前進應變所這邊每一天會對外公開說明我們的進度"},{"start":65.355,"end":87.696,"text":"那你還是沒講啊對啊 三公里啊還有未來可能對於全國各縣市都要展開調查嗎是不是對 我們同時就是啟動台中市的疫調然後台中市以外的全國的豬場的第一個就是它的本身的豬隻的健康度的回報跟它的一個關注所以我們是同時啟動"},{"start":89.571,"end":108.913,"text":"比較強度比較強的台東市的應變然後還有其他縣市的那相關的調查什麼時候可以公布所以我剛才說的這個疫調有它的時間我現在沒辦法講說一定多久可以完成但是我們是希望在這個潛伏期的15天之內能夠完成15天 那就是月底"},{"start":109.95,"end":128.485,"text":"15天那5天齁為一個單位我希望說台東市的這個基本的疫調能夠在5天之內能夠完成就是5天之內對就是台東市這個部分是25號嗎大概我是昨天他們去前進指揮所我是希望說5天之內能夠完成因為他們不會有假日的是昨天的5天對等於下禮拜一囉"},{"start":129.085,"end":144.907,"text":"大概下禮拜一禮拜二這樣子但是我們每天都會公告我們的進度因為疫調還有可能又追到其他的源頭所以你剛才說的有可能就是其他委員在質詢的你覺得有可能它的原因不是來自於廚餘是不是"},{"start":145.507,"end":165.595,"text":"我说非洲猪瘟的传播本身当然厨余是一个原因但是人员的如果说你进到国外的这些养猪场然后可能带过来的然后也有可能你其他的食物来源不是经过厨余的来源带回来因为如果那个场有其他的这些外籍的"},{"start":166.926,"end":194.93,"text":"我不是就是外籍去国外买东西好了我们不一定是外籍就是国外买东西回来那也可能不小心吃一吃以后就丢到自己家里去都有可能啦所以这些可能在疫调没有完成之前我们不能断定说它一定是是人员接触一定是厨医或一定是家里买东西自己乱丢造成的我们要怎么判断但是那个病毒的分离报告是不是已经出来了大概分离报告大概两个礼拜还没出来吗还没有出来"},{"start":196.837,"end":219.08,"text":"我怎麼那為什麼我有定序我們這樣子我們先用核酸病毒的核酸檢測是陽性然後接下來我們會做這個核酸的一個定序那定序完了以後其實應該是確認的但是因為我們台灣是首例那是首例的國家的話他還要做一個動作就是將這個病毒做分類"},{"start":220.621,"end":241.743,"text":"分離跟分類那才能夠正式的通報所以這個部分就是在分離需要兩個禮拜所以我們是用最強的用把它已經是其實就是非洲豬瘟只是在通報上還需要一些那病毒株呢是從哪裡來的這個還要再做分離以後還要定序現在定序還在繼續定序是越南嗎"},{"start":243.288,"end":272.467,"text":"你剛才有講可能是中國 可能是東南亞然後一部分之間所以我們現在完全定序以後才能做完整的比對定序還在執行嗎所以定序也要兩個禮拜不確定是來自於東南亞還是因為非洲株的病毒高達180K所以它需要很多時間去完成定序那我目前已經知道的是大部分的序列都來自第二基因型那第二基因型就是目前廣為世界流傳的病毒株的基因型不一定來自越南"},{"start":273.018,"end":289.668,"text":"不一定是來自於越南是不是好那所以定序要兩個禮拜以後才會出來好那就是下下禮拜囉下禮拜一是疫調然後下下禮拜是病毒株的定序是不是"},{"start":290.714,"end":318.037,"text":"大概是這樣子下禮拜一是大概台中市的部分我們希望有個初步的結果大概是這樣因為疫調有它的有它的嚴謹度跟詳細度啦好那我還要再一次請教喔就是關於廚餘養豬的問題喔那廚餘養豬是為什麼當初2018年有這樣子爭議的時候不馬上的禁止是因為"},{"start":319.795,"end":337.005,"text":"沒有辦法處理廚餘的問題嗎是不是我想當初當初做這樣的一個政策最後政策的一個決定一定有他當時的一個考量是不是沒有辦法處理廚餘我想可能是一個原因就是處理的量推到我們現在你有沒有辦法處理廚餘我想"},{"start":339.386,"end":346.41,"text":"從108年到現在其實用廚餘養豬的戶數已經降到430幾435場本來1000多場變成降到435場這就是當初108年的時候雖然說我們沒有禁止但是我們積極輔導他轉型那同時我們去強化那個廚餘的徵主的條件跟他的嚴苛的一個監管那這樣子的話只要確認這個這個是"},{"start":366.075,"end":393.278,"text":"那農業部有沒有去跟環保有沒有跟環境部了解到底廚餘有沒有辦法處理我們全台灣所有的廚餘有沒有辦法處理它的廚餘本身它有不同的像它可以做一般的飼料然後進到廚餘養生處但是現在目前大概65%大概是進到廚餘的系統然後還有一些生殖的部分所以剛才因為委員提到我們如果把廚餘先做成飼料再餵豬也是一個很好的方法"},{"start":393.838,"end":406.576,"text":"所以我想除以養豬絕對不是就是罪魁禍首但是我們要讓除以養豬能夠安心的養豬牠的飼料是安全的這是我們的目標"},{"start":408.103,"end":435.029,"text":"好 我希望我們能夠緊述的調查做疫調的相關調查讓所有的養豬場都能夠安心到底真正的來源是什麼那以及病毒株的來源是從何而來那對於未來就是說相關的邊境的檢查也好那才有辦法進行確實我想要順便問一下我們關務署"},{"start":439.737,"end":464.865,"text":"請問一下我想請問一下現在我們的出口今年的出口的數字是怎麼樣是說我們到目前為止整年的一個出口據我了解應該都還維持還不錯的一個成績是不是有33%的我看有33%的成長是不是我看你們關務署的數字"},{"start":466.729,"end":483.142,"text":"抱歉委員我沒有掌握這個數字是不是容我查證之後再跟您回報那明年咧我想要知道明年的數字明年出口的一個數字會不會下降抱歉委員這可能我還是要請教專家之後我再來跟您回覆你們都沒有做預估喔"},{"start":484.349,"end":500.71,"text":"你們都沒做預估喔?關務署這邊我是沒有對啊你們不都會做預估嗎?你們財政部不都會做預估嗎?財政部那邊會做預估你們都會做預估啊主總那邊會做預估啦包括經濟成長率等等好 謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":752,"blocks":[["謝委員衣鳯：（11時13分）謝謝主席，我想要請陳部長。"],["主席：我們再請陳部長。"],["陳部長駿季：委員好。"],["謝委員衣鳯：陳部長好。我想請問一下，像這一次養豬場所發生的問題，有沒有展開回溯性的調查？這份報告什麼時候可以公布？"],["陳部長駿季：我們從21號發現了以後，第一時間就是將這個場所有的移動管制、全面撲殺，然後我們開始從周圍的3公里，還有它直接的關聯場去調查，接下來就是這輛車輛本身移動的關聯場。所以我們啟動正式的調查，正式的調查需要一些時間，但是我們每一天會在臺中前進應變所對外公開說明我們的進度。"],["謝委員衣鳯：你還是沒講啊！對啊，3公里啊！還有未來可能對全國各縣市都要展開調查，是不是？要不要？"],["陳部長駿季：對，我們同時啟動臺中市的疫調，然後臺中市以外全國的豬場，第一個，豬場本身豬隻健康度的回報跟關注，所以我們是同時啟動強度比較強的臺中市的應變，然後還有其他縣市的。"],["謝委員衣鳯：相關的調查什麼時候可以公布？"],["陳部長駿季：我剛才說疫調有它的時間，我現在沒辦法講多久一定可以完成，但是我們是希望在這個潛伏期的15天之內能夠完成。"],["謝委員衣鳯：15天？那就是月底？"],["陳部長駿季：15天，以5天為一個單位，我希望臺中市基本的疫調能夠在5天之內完成。"],["謝委員衣鳯：5天之內，所以是25號？"],["陳部長駿季：對，臺中市的部分。"],["謝委員衣鳯：是25號嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：大概……昨天他們去前進指揮所，我是希望5天之內能夠完成，因為他們不會有假日的。"],["謝委員衣鳯：是昨天開始算5天？"],["陳部長駿季：對。"],["謝委員衣鳯：等於下禮拜一囉？"],["陳部長駿季：大概下禮拜一、禮拜二，但是我們每天會公告我們的進度，因為疫調還有可能又追到其他的源頭。"],["謝委員衣鳯：針對剛才其他委員的質詢，你說有可能它的原因不是來自於廚餘，是不是？"],["陳部長駿季：我說非洲豬瘟的傳播，當然廚餘本身是一個原因，但是人員的……如果你進到國外的養豬場，有可能會帶過來，也有可能其他的食物來源，不是經過廚餘的來源帶回來，因為如果那個場有其他的外籍……"],["謝委員衣鳯：技術人員？"],["陳部長駿季：就像我們去國外買東西好了，不一定是外籍，就是去國外買東西回來，也可能不小心吃一吃以後就丟到自己家裡去，都有可能啦，這些在疫調沒有完成之前，我們都不能斷定一定是人員接觸、一定是廚餘或一定是家裡買東西自己亂丟造成的，我們沒辦法判斷。"],["謝委員衣鳯：但是病毒的分離報告是不是已經出來了？"],["陳部長駿季：分離報告大概要兩個禮拜。"],["謝委員衣鳯：還沒出來嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：還沒有出來。"],["謝委員衣鳯：那為什麼有人……"],["陳部長駿季：定序。我們是先用病毒的核酸檢測是陽性，接下來我們會做核酸的定序，定序完了以後其實應該是確認了，但是因為臺灣是首例，首例在國家的話還要做一個動作，就是將這個病毒做分離跟分類才能夠正式通報，這個部分分離需要兩個禮拜。我們是用最強的……它其實已經就是非洲豬瘟，只是在通報上還需要一些……"],["謝委員衣鳯：那病毒株是從哪裡來的？"],["陳部長駿季：這個還要再做分離以後……"],["謝委員衣鳯：是不是從越南？"],["陳部長駿季：還要定序，現在還在繼續定序。"],["謝委員衣鳯：是越南嗎？"],["鄧所長明中：不一定。"],["陳部長駿季：剛才有講可能是中國，可能是東南亞，然後一部分是越南，我們現在要完全定序以後才能做完整的比對。定序還在執行嘛！"],["鄧所長明中：對，還在執行。"],["謝委員衣鳯：所以定序也要兩個禮拜？不確定是來自於東南亞還是……"],["鄧所長明中：因為非洲豬瘟的病毒高達180k base pair，所以需要很多時間去完成定序，我們目前已經知道大部分序列都來自第二基因型，第二基因型就是目前廣為世界流傳的病毒株基因型，不一定來自越南。"],["謝委員衣鳯：不一定是來自於越南，是不是？"],["鄧所長明中：是。"],["謝委員衣鳯：好，所以定序要兩個禮拜以後才會出來？"],["鄧所長明中：大概。"],["謝委員衣鳯：好，那就是下下禮拜囉？"],["陳部長駿季：差不多。"],["謝委員衣鳯：下禮拜一是疫調，然後下下禮拜是病毒株的定序，大概是這樣子的進度，是不是？"],["陳部長駿季：下禮拜一臺中市的部分，我們希望有個初步的結果，大概是這樣，因為疫調有它的嚴謹度跟詳細度啦！"],["謝委員衣鳯：好。我還要再一次請教關於廚餘養豬的問題，為什麼當初2018年有廚餘養豬爭議的時候，不馬上禁止？是因為沒有辦法處理廚餘的問題，是不是？"],["陳部長駿季：我想當初做這樣的一個政策，以及最後政策的決定，一定有當時的考量……"],["謝委員衣鳯：是不是沒有辦法處理廚餘？"],["陳部長駿季：可能是一個原因，就是處理的量……"],["謝委員衣鳯：推到現在，你有沒有辦法處理廚餘？"],["陳部長駿季：從108年到現在，其實用廚餘養豬的戶數已經降到435場，本來一千多場變成降到435場，雖然我們當初108年的時候沒有禁止，但是我們積極輔導他轉型，同時我們去強化廚餘蒸煮的條件跟嚴苛的監管，這樣子的話，只要確認……"],["謝委員衣鳯：農業部有沒有去跟環保……"],["陳部長駿季：我們隨時在跟他們……"],["謝委員衣鳯：有沒有跟環境部了解？"],["陳部長駿季：有。"],["謝委員衣鳯：到底廚餘有沒有辦法處理？我們全臺灣所有的廚餘有沒有辦法處理？"],["陳部長駿季：廚餘本身有不同的用途，像可以做一般的飼料，然後進到養豬場，但是目前大概65%是進到廚餘的系統，然後還有一些生質的部分，所以剛才也有委員提到，我們如果把廚餘先做成飼料再餵豬，也是一個很好的方法，所以我想廚餘養豬絕對不是罪魁禍首，但是我們要讓大家對廚餘養豬能夠安心，讓這個養豬的飼料是安全的，這是我們的目標。"],["謝委員衣鳯：好，我希望你們能夠儘速去做疫調的相關調查，讓所有的養豬場都能夠安心，並且知道到底真正的來源是什麼，以及病毒株的來源是從何而來，這樣對於未來相關的邊境檢查才有辦法確實進行。","接下來我想要請問關務署。"],["主席：請署長。"],["謝委員衣鳯：請問署長，今年我們的出口的數字是怎麼樣？"],["彭署長英偉：委員是說我們到目前為止整年的出口？"],["謝委員衣鳯：對、對、對。"],["彭署長英偉：據我了解應該都還維持不錯的成績。"],["謝委員衣鳯：是不是有33%？我看到有33%的成長，是不是？我看你們關務署的數字。"],["彭署長英偉：抱歉，委員，我沒有掌握這個數字，是不是容我查證之後再跟您回報？"],["謝委員衣鳯：那明年呢？我想要知道明年的數字。"],["彭署長英偉：明年出口的數字？"],["謝委員衣鳯：對，會不會下降？"],["彭署長英偉：報告委員，這個可能還是要請教專家之後再來向您回復。"],["謝委員衣鳯：你們都沒有預估？你們都沒預估喔！"],["彭署長英偉：關務署這邊，我是沒有。"],["謝委員衣鳯：對啊，你們不是都會預估嗎？你們財政部不是都會預估嗎？是不是？"],["彭署長英偉：是，財政部會預估，主要是主總會預估，包括經濟成長率等等。"],["謝委員衣鳯：好，謝謝。"],["彭署長英偉：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝，我們現在休息3分鐘，謝謝。","休息（11時21分）","繼續開會（11時27分）"],["主席：謝謝，我們現在繼續開會。","請陳超明委員、陳超明委員，陳超明委員不在現場。","請蔡易餘委員詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":60,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-19-7","speakers":["楊瓊瓔","邱議瑩","林岱樺","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","張嘉郡","鄭正鈐","賴瑞隆","陳亭妃","張啓楷","邱志偉","呂玉玲","謝衣鳯","蔡易餘","陳培瑜","賴惠員","鍾佳濱","王鴻薇","黃捷","徐欣瑩","陳超明","陳冠廷"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-10-23"],"gazette_id":"1148901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148901_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期經濟委員會第7次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請農業部部長及財政部關務署首長就「非洲豬瘟防檢疫後續防疫精進作為」進行報告，並備質\n詢","agenda_id":"1148901_00001"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}