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現在就是說關於這個特別預算的規模還在行政院審議當中所以我們等行政院審議確定以後但你有提出來啊 你提出來是多少"},{"start":64.363,"end":90.616,"text":"呃我想因為還沒有審議完畢所以我想我們這邊因為這個預算的這個籌編是行政院的權責所以我還想自己行政院的決定最後的決定不是可是你你總是有個版本給行政院啊不然行政院什麼審呢你總是有個版本嘛不然這個這個因為原來講的是一兆後來說一兆三這個一兆三是不是太多了或者你你你你不變名講那我就說比一兆三少這樣可以吧"},{"start":92.016,"end":95.738,"text":"我想還是要以行政院的審議的結果所以問不出答案就對了這裡面總是要講一下讓我們知道一下一兆多是不是都滿美國武器是不是我想這怎麼是機密呢要面對全國老百姓納稅的錢"},{"start":114.817,"end":125.62,"text":"我想有軍購也有我們國內的自己的委制然後也有進行商購所以通通都是買武器就這個意思對吧特別條例嘛就類似戰機的特別條例2500億然後現在有一個特別條例一兆或者一兆三一兆到一兆三之間"},{"start":138.339,"end":145.181,"text":"我想相關的這些相關的這些編列的內容我想等行政院核定之後我們再對外來說明剛剛我們林委員提到海空號海空號不在裡面吧沒有 海空號海空號是extra的不在除了besides海空號以外我們還要編一兆一兆就是台灣之盾這兩個是不是一樣一樣的東西"},{"start":163.393,"end":165.996,"text":"這兩個是不是一樣的東西就是為了要建構台灣之盾所以編了一照我都聽你講話了你總是要回答一下嘛是跟委員報告我想我對你多好啊我們現在要快速提升的是不對稱戰力跟強化防衛韌性"},{"start":181.334,"end":193.619,"text":"防空系統不是只有針對台灣之盾不是只有針對台灣之盾但是台灣之盾在其中之裡面會是其中的一個重要的主要是防空系統是不是我們的整個防空會包括反彈反擊跟反無人機還有整合啊整合系統啊像巴西斯坦可以贏印度那就是一個整合系統的問題啊"},{"start":210.236,"end":224.395,"text":"所以我們會以這個強調這個高機動性跟高存活力的平台作為一個優先的考量所以主要是防空系統嘛相圍是一定的空優嘛 是不是我不知道我們現在有沒有空優啦"},{"start":225.876,"end":240.98,"text":"我想我們現在的這個特別預算的這個內容應該還沒有經過核定我想但是我剛已經講了我們是以提升不對稱戰力跟強化防衛人性沒有會有包含這個你來這裡就要盡量講講到不能講為止不能夠說我盡量不講急一下急一下講一點那第二個小問題就是問你是不是全數舉債總可以講白"},{"start":255.811,"end":260.447,"text":"這個部分是主計局來說明一下主計局啊 長官啊"},{"start":261.38,"end":266.881,"text":"人家外面罵得要死啊 現在我們去哪裡人家就說立委要怎麼監督的國防部的組織局 欸 那個顧部長啊你左邊這一位啊 你要好好的去監督一下對不對 椅子買五萬塊一張 辦公桌兩百多萬一張唉 給我們賣到要死了 賣到臭頭啊連我們立委出去都被罵 所以我們都沒有好好監督啊"},{"start":287.486,"end":296.472,"text":"對不對我們的主席多優秀把人抓出來要沒有抓出來就是按照你們原來講的啊能騙就騙 能框就框啊都這樣 對不對來講一下是不是都舉菜回答我是的 各位"},{"start":303.357,"end":326.482,"text":"都百分之百舉債一兆一債是什麼概念啊我們一年中央政府總預算三兆喔三分之一的預算就舉債一兆除以兩千三百萬一個人要付多少錢你可以想一個人這個不是一年的特別預算那幾年七年七年一兆那就是七年平均一年就是也是一千多億啊"},{"start":329.991,"end":334.354,"text":"1400億 1500億左右啊好 第二個問題啊 我很快把它講完喔我今天接到好多電話就在抗議啊內政部其實抗議你啊說這個不當兵的那個原來BMI啊去兩年前才修訂了 到3535以上不用當兵現在把它提到45"},{"start":358.828,"end":375.718,"text":"那你對他講說替代役 這個部長 你講替代役那你要講一下吧 你現在提高這麼多這個讓很多的 很多可以來的一個小胖子或者是比較體型比較圓潤的通宵當兵的變這個樣子"},{"start":378.583,"end":403.657,"text":"我想是不是軍醫局檢要說明我是軍醫局局長跟委員報告因為我們常備役的體位沒有改變維持原來的體位那我們增加的是替代役那替代役從BMI講清楚所以35到45都是替代役是不是是替代役35到45都是替代役那這樣可以增加多少人這個可能要問內政部醫政署"},{"start":405.967,"end":421.58,"text":"都是替代役 替代役時間多久替代役時間也是一年來喔 我唸一段我就結束了這是選民給我的他的小孩子就是BMI45怎麼減都減不了就BMI45"},{"start":423.089,"end":446.55,"text":"然後他特別提到了現在大於37.5只是聽好喔兩位長官大於37.5健保補助開縮胃手術就是醫學上講的病態性的一個肥胖那你現在37.5就健保補助你開縮胃的手術就很清楚"},{"start":447.608,"end":465.621,"text":"以健康的角度來講37.5以上都不是太健康如果以肥胖來講的話那結果你要讓他去當兵萬一出了人命怎麼樣呢這個給我的是什麼就是他的小孩子就44他現在很憂心小孩子去當兵以後會不會怎麼樣會不會鬧出人命"},{"start":468.189,"end":489.02,"text":"跟委員報告這個是內政部議政司現在初步的建議但是我們現在還在開會還沒定案只是說有這個方向那還要經過各個委員會還有各個學會還有醫院還有專家還有內政部議政司最後一句話什麼時候可以確定"},{"start":490.791,"end":512.011,"text":"我大概在下個月大概就會定版下個月就會開始進入公告階段好好的把我剛剛那一段你把它看一下有些家長真的很憂心37.5是衛護部裡面健保可以補助的所謂的所謂的手術37.5是 謝委員的提醒好 謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":517,"blocks":[["賴委員士葆：（11時50分）謝謝主席及各位先進，有請國防部的顧部長。"],["主席：請顧部長。"],["顧部長立雄：賴委員好。"],["賴委員士葆：部長，你好。最近一直有一件事情，我想要看內容都看不到，一個就是賴總統講的「臺灣之盾」，另外一個就是特別預算，有人講要編一兆，現在又聽到是一兆三，等於在國防預算的正常預算裡面另外要編特別預算，請問到底是一兆還是一兆三？"],["顧部長立雄：跟委員報告，現在關於這個特別預算的規模還在行政院審議當中，所以，我們等行政院審議確定以後……"],["賴委員士葆：但你有提出來啊！你提出來的是多少？"],["顧部長立雄：我想因為還沒有審議完畢，因為這個預算的籌編是行政院的權責，所以我想還是以行政院最後的決定……"],["賴委員士葆：可是你總是有個版本給行政院，不然行政院怎麼審呢？因為原來講的是一兆，後來說一兆三，一兆三是不是太多了？或者你不便明講，那就說比一兆三少，這樣可以吧？"],["顧部長立雄：我想還是要以行政院的審議結果為準。"],["賴委員士葆：所以問不出答案就對了？你總是要講一下，讓我們知道這一兆多是不是都買美國武器？"],["林委員德福：機密的啦！"],["賴委員士葆：這怎麼是機密呢？要面對全國，這是老百姓納稅的錢欸！"],["顧部長立雄：我想有軍購也有我們國內自己的委製，然後也有進行商購。"],["賴委員士葆：好，所以通通都是買武器，就這個意思，對吧？特別條例嘛！就類似戰機的特別條例2,500億，然後現在有一個特別條例是一兆到一兆三之間。"],["林委員德福：海鯤號啦！"],["顧部長立雄：我想相關的編列內容……"],["賴委員士葆：海鯤號不在這裡面。"],["顧部長立雄：我想等行政院核定之後，我們再對外來說明。"],["賴委員士葆：剛剛林委員提到海鯤號，海鯤號不在裡面吧？"],["顧部長立雄：沒有海鯤號。"],["賴委員士葆：海鯤號是extra的，除了海鯤號以外，我們還要編一兆啦！一兆就是臺灣之盾，這兩個是不是一樣的東西？就是為了要建構臺灣之盾，所以編了一兆？我都替你講話了，你總是要回答一下嘛！"],["顧部長立雄：是，跟委員報告，我們現在要快速提升的是不對稱戰力跟強化防衛韌性。"],["賴委員士葆：是，防空系統啦！"],["顧部長立雄：不是只有針對臺灣之盾。"],["賴委員士葆：但是臺灣之盾在其中，對吧？"],["顧部長立雄：會是其中一個重要的……"],["賴委員士葆：主要是防空系統，是不是？"],["顧部長立雄：我們的整個防空會包括反彈、反機跟反無人機，所以……"],["賴委員士葆：還有整合系統啊！"],["顧部長立雄：是。"],["賴委員士葆：像巴基斯坦可以贏印度，就是個整合系統的問題，對吧？"],["顧部長立雄：是，所以我們會以強調高機動性跟高存活率的平台作為一個優先的考量。"],["賴委員士葆：所以主要是防空系統需要維持一定的空優，是不是？我不知道我們現在有沒有空優啦。"],["顧部長立雄：現在這個特別預算的內容因為還沒有經過核定，我想……但是我剛剛已經講了，我們是以提升不對稱戰力跟強化防衛韌性，會有包含這個……"],["賴委員士葆：你來這裡要儘量講啊！講到不能講為止，不能夠說儘量不講，就這樣擠一下講一點。","那第二個小問題就是是不是全數舉債？這總可以講吧？"],["顧部長立雄：這個部分由主計局來說明一下。"],["賴委員士葆：主計局啊！長官啊！人家外面罵得要死，現在我們去哪裡，人家都說立法院是怎麼監督的！國防部的主計局，顧部長，你左邊這一位，你要好好的去監督一下啊！椅子買五萬塊一張，辦公桌兩百多萬一張，被人罵死了，罵到臭頭，連我們立委出去都被罵啊！說我們都沒有好好監督。我們的主席多優秀，把你抓出來，要是沒有抓出來，就是按照你們原來講的啊，能騙就騙，能誆就誆啊，就這樣啊！對不對？來！講一下是不是都舉債？你回答我。"],["謝局長其賢：報告委員，是的。"],["賴委員士葆：各位，都百分之百舉債！一兆是什麼概念？我們一年中央政府總預算三兆，三分之一的預算都舉債，一兆除以2,300萬，一個人要付多少錢？"],["顧部長立雄：跟委員報告，這個不是一年的特別預算。"],["賴委員士葆：那幾年？"],["顧部長立雄：7年。"],["賴委員士葆：7年1兆，那平均一年也是一千多億啊，一千四百億、一千五百億左右。","第二個問題，我很快講完，我今天接到好多電話，在抗議內政部，其實是抗議你啊！說不當兵的，原來就BMI，兩年前才修訂的，到35以上不用當兵，現在把它提到45，你對外又講是替代役，部長講替代役，那你要講一下吧！你現在提高這麼多，很多就可以來了，小胖子或者是體型比較圓潤的通通要當兵了，變這個樣子。"],["顧部長立雄：我想是不是軍醫局簡要說明一下？"],["蔡局長建松：委員好，我是軍醫局局長。跟委員報告，常備役的體位沒有改變，維持原來的體位。我們增加的是替代役，替代役的BMI從35……"],["賴委員士葆：講清楚，所以35到45都是替代役的，是不是？"],["蔡局長建松：是替代役。"],["賴委員士葆：35到45都是？"],["蔡局長建松：替代役。"],["賴委員士葆：這樣子可以增加多少人？"],["蔡局長建松：這個可能要問內政部役政署。"],["賴委員士葆：都是替代役？"],["蔡局長建松：是。"],["賴委員士葆：替代役的時間多久？"],["蔡局長建松：替代役的時間也是1年。"],["賴委員士葆：我唸一段，然後就結束了。這是選民給我的，他的小孩子就是BMI 45，怎麼減都減不了，他特別提到，現在大於37.5的話，聽好喔！兩位長官，大於37.5，健保補助開縮胃手術，就是醫學上講的病態性肥胖。現在37.5就健保補助他開縮胃手術，很清楚地，以健康的角度來講，37.5以上都不是太健康，如果以肥胖來講的話，結果你要讓他去當兵，萬一出了人命怎麼樣呢？給我這個的，他的小孩子就是44，他現在很憂心，小孩子去當兵以後會不會怎麼樣？會不會鬧出人命？"],["蔡局長建松：跟委員報告，這個是內政部役政司現在初步的建議。"],["賴委員士葆：你推給內政部啊？"],["蔡局長建松：但是我們現在還在開會，還沒定案，只是有這個方向。有這個方向，還要經過各個學會、醫院、專家，以及內政部役政司跟……"],["賴委員士葆：最後一句話，什麼時候可以確定？3個月？"],["蔡局長建松：我們在下個月大概就會定版。"],["賴委員士葆：下個月確定？"],["蔡局長建松：就會開始進入公告階段。"],["賴委員士葆：好好地把我剛剛那一段看一下，有些家長真的很憂心，37.5是衛福部裡面健保可以補助縮胃手術，37.5。"],["蔡局長建松：是，謝謝委員的提醒。"],["主席：謝謝。接下來請林德福委員上臺質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":262,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-35-8","speakers":["馬文君","王定宇","陳永康","羅美玲","陳俊宇","黃仁","沈伯洋","林楚茵","徐巧芯","賴士葆","林德福","王鴻薇","陳冠廷","李坤城","楊瓊瓔","林憶君"],"page_start":207,"meetingDate":["2025-10-23"],"gazette_id":"1148801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148801_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國防部部長顧立雄報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1148801_00004"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}