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本席有請部長 陳部長我們再請陳部長部長好我想我們的邊境防疫"},{"start":25.173,"end":44.269,"text":"出現了危機大家都覺得應該要想辦法改進但是有些委員一直覺得這跟沒宣費有關我想應該不是所以我今天要就邊境防疫的危機我們覺得防線潰堤的部分要來跟部長來討論我們這一次114年邊境查驗的"},{"start":51.345,"end":74.852,"text":"截至114年10月21號邊境查驗了9507件其中有996件病毒查驗是陽性等於是我們的病毒陽性率高達10%那這是不是已經證明我們邊境防線出現了系統性的潰堤嚴重危險我想不能用這個數據因為"},{"start":76.753,"end":91.104,"text":"我們邊境查驗是看到就是夾帶了以後我們去查驗那查驗的時候有一些不同的國家那這些是針對可能的包括你剛才說10%那這10%裡面也有80%是從氣質它放在垃圾桶裡面我們去檢查的"},{"start":98.63,"end":110.776,"text":"所以它本身就是有可能是肉製品的我們又去查然後有非洲豬瘟陽性的是10%那其中大概有八成是來自中國的部分所以我們現在在機場我們現在在機場的檢驗"},{"start":114.878,"end":138.476,"text":"一般認為是不是有需要改善比如說你高度的仰賴人力那你X光機的判讀可能有一些問題或是什麼我跟委員報告我們從開始啟動整個邊境的防疫是由跨部會不同的機關來處理分幾個層次而且我們一直在精進好沒關係我問重點好了現在有我們這個如果被這個發現是財閥20萬對不對20萬他如果他"},{"start":145.742,"end":165.284,"text":"據入境他就可以不用罰他以後就不能再入境了以後就不能再入境大概有600多 629個人所以我們的這個檢查的制度是不是要調整我們現在對於入境的旅客你是看依據區域是不是高風險區域你才查還是都查"},{"start":166.877,"end":180.885,"text":"都會去查但是高風險區的話我記得我們出國回來好像都不是高風險區的部分是百分之百然後非高風險區的話是用抽查的方式通道的時候嘛"},{"start":182.726,"end":191.971,"text":"那是分兩個部分如果說是在我們檢疫之前那我們有設我們的藍線跟紅線綠線跟紅線那那個部分是提醒如果在那個地方如果有檢驗這個違規的產品的話你丟棄那麼你在進來海關的時候你不會被罰我說的問題是你綠線給他自主性的走綠線但實際上他搞不好夾帶進來那這樣到海關的時候他一定被罰"},{"start":209.46,"end":224.758,"text":"那只要租的製品被查出來他到海關他怎麼會被查到我們有兩道防線啦我們的叫做預防性我們的是設在前面叫預防性那如果民眾配合在那個時候守規矩的話可能在後面被海關截下來的時候就不會被罰"},{"start":226.363,"end":243.966,"text":"你海關你用什麼檢查X光對啊 所以我們就說你這X光可能人力的配置我們分兩個層次一個層次就是說我們在入關之前我們會提醒你如果主動丟棄的話我們是不罰的可是一旦入關你又被查到的時候那你就會被罰"},{"start":244.767,"end":265.834,"text":"然後另外委員一直關心的就是X光機的部分的判試我們現在也盡快用AI化就是AI化的方式去進行因為我時間的關係那我想請教我們是否應該擴大WOAH國際合作共享病毒株序列可以做到超前預測變異風險讓我們的篩檢試劑跑在病毒前面這個可以嗎"},{"start":270.16,"end":295.355,"text":"我想這個部分我請我們的受益所來回應因為比較技術面的問題是有關那個病毒株序列的事情我們都會公佈在上面我們也因為分享在網路上我們能做到超前預測嗎基本上比較不容易對 因為這病毒它也是DNA病毒變異本身就比RNA病毒還要小變異的機率比較小而且它病毒的基因序列又比較大"},{"start":296.135,"end":322.81,"text":"所以我们不容易做到预测病毒会往哪个方向去是不是可以看看仿效其他国家有更先进的我们想办法来做那接着最后最后一个问题就是有关我们画质数据的部分画质数据这个部分部长我们应该要能够有及时的机动的监测而不是事后才发现现在像我很快举例像我们现在"},{"start":323.75,"end":341.61,"text":"銀行他不是有很多警示帳戶嗎只要有有異常的他就會跳出來現在你們對畫質數據有沒有動態的數據只要畫質車你的數據重量你隨時你等於有一個機制那發現異常他就跳出來我們現在就有這個機制"},{"start":344.313,"end":358.058,"text":"現在什麼時候我們畫製廠本身的這些後台的數據那我們有設定不同規模的時候它的不同百分比的異常死亡那就變成異常 異常的話它自動跳出來這一次怎麼會那麼慢"},{"start":359.691,"end":384.724,"text":"這就是我們有 我們才一直提醒可是也是事後耶 也是事後因為當你發現那個死亡的豬隻的重量車輛的數量異常的時候你應該馬上就可以發現對 這一次就是因為異常 我們看到異常你們也是事後嘛 不是即時的監測算是即時的 就是即時的算是即時 然後我們也通報地方政府地方政府同步也可以看到這個數據啦"},{"start":386.254,"end":399.58,"text":"好 所以我們還是希望預防勝於菩薩我們大家一起來努力包含邊境的防疫還有我們這個即時的監測數據我想我們會持續的精進也不會把這個強度降低好 謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1100,"blocks":[["徐委員欣瑩：（12時12分）謝謝主席。本席有請陳部長。"],["主席：再請陳部長。"],["陳部長駿季：委員好。"],["徐委員欣瑩：部長好。我們的邊境防疫出現了危機，大家都覺得應該要想辦法改進，但是有些委員一直覺得這跟媒宣費有關，我想應該不是，所以我今天要就邊境防疫的危機、防線潰堤的部分跟部長討論。截至114年10月21號邊境查驗了9,507件，其中有996件病毒查驗是陽性，等於病毒陽性率高達10%，這是不是已經證明我們邊境防線出現了系統性的潰堤，有嚴重威脅？"],["陳部長駿季：我想不能用這個數據，因為邊境查驗是看到有人夾帶了以後，我們去查驗，查驗的時候，有不同的國家，這些是針對可能的國家……包括你剛才說10%，這10%裡面又有80%是棄置……"],["徐委員欣瑩：它是陽性。"],["陳部長駿季：被放在垃圾桶裡面，我們去檢查的。它有可能是肉製品，所以我們去查，然後有非洲豬瘟陽性的是10%，其中大概有八成是來自中國。"],["徐委員欣瑩：一般認為現在機場的檢驗是不是有需要改善？比如高度仰賴人力，X光機的判讀可能有一些問題或是什麼，會不會？"],["陳部長駿季：我們從開始啟動整個邊境的防疫，就由跨部會不同的機關來處理，分幾個層次，而且我們一直在精進，強度沒有降過。"],["徐委員欣瑩：好，沒關係，我問重點好了。現在如果被發現是裁罰20萬，對不對？"],["陳部長駿季：是20萬。"],["徐委員欣瑩：如果他拒入境，就可以不用被罰20萬。"],["陳部長駿季：他以後就不能再入境了。"],["徐委員欣瑩：以後就不能再入境？"],["陳部長駿季：大概有629個人。"],["徐委員欣瑩：所以檢查的制度是不是要調整？現在對於入境的旅客是依據區域，是不是？高風險區域才查，還是都查？"],["陳部長駿季：沒有！所有的都會去查，但是高風險區的話……"],["徐委員欣瑩：我記得我們出國回來好像都是自主性的拿那個牌子。"],["陳部長駿季：不是，高風險區的部分是百分之百，非高風險區的話是用抽查的方式。"],["徐委員欣瑩：在通道的時候嘛。"],["杜署長麗華：那是分兩個部分，如果是在我們檢疫之前，我們有設綠線跟紅線。"],["徐委員欣瑩：對啊，綠線跟紅線。"],["杜署長麗華：那個部分是提醒，如果在那個地方有檢驗違規產品的話，你丟棄，那麼你在進來海關的時候不會被罰。"],["徐委員欣瑩：所以我說的問題是，你給他自主性的走綠線，但實際上他搞不好會夾帶進來。"],["杜署長麗華：這樣到海關的時候，他一定被罰，只要豬的製品被查出來就是罰20萬。"],["徐委員欣瑩：他到海關，他怎麼會被查到？"],["杜署長麗華：我們有兩道防線，我們的是設在前面的，叫預防性，如果民眾配合，在那個時候守規矩的話，可能在後面被海關截下來的時候就不會被罰。"],["徐委員欣瑩：海關用什麼檢查？"],["杜署長麗華：X光。"],["徐委員欣瑩：對啊，所以我們就說你這個X光可能人力的配置……"],["陳部長駿季：我想我們分兩個層次，一個層次就是我們在入關之前會提醒你，如果主動丟棄的話，我們是不罰的，可是一旦入關，你又被查到的時候就會被罰。另外，委員一直關心的就是X光機的判識，我們現在也儘快地AI化。"],["徐委員欣瑩：有沒有想辦法加強？"],["陳部長駿季：就是用AI化的方式處理。"],["徐委員欣瑩：因為時間的關係，我想請教，我們是否應該擴大與WOAH國際合作，共享病毒株序列，可以做到超前預測變異風險，讓我們的篩檢試劑跑在病毒前面？這個可以嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：這個部分我請我們的獸醫所來回應，因為是比較技術面的問題。"],["徐委員欣瑩：是。"],["鄧所長明中：有關病毒株序列的事情，我們都會公布在上面，也因為分享在那個網路上，我們也是……"],["徐委員欣瑩：你們能做到超前預測嗎？"],["鄧所長明中：基本上不容易。"],["徐委員欣瑩：不容易？"],["鄧所長明中：對。"],["徐委員欣瑩：想盡辦法吧！"],["鄧所長明中：因為這個病毒是DNA病毒，變異本身就比RNA病毒還要小，變異的機率比較小，而且它病毒的基因序列又比較大，所以我們不容易做到預測病毒會往哪個方向去發展。"],["徐委員欣瑩：是不是可以仿效有更先進方式的其他國家，想辦法來做？接著最後一個問題是有關化製數據的部分。部長，我們應該要能夠即時、機動的監測，而不是事後才發現。我很快舉個例，像我們現在銀行不是有很多警示帳戶嗎？只要有異常的，它就會跳出來。現在你們對化製數據有沒有動態的數據？只要有化製車，你這個數據、重量等於有一個機制，隨時發現異常它就跳出來，不會是事後才發現。"],["陳部長駿季：對，我們現在就有這個機制。"],["徐委員欣瑩：現在？什麼時候？"],["陳部長駿季：對，現在化製場本身的這些後臺的數據，我們有設定不同規模時，它有不同百分比的異常死亡，就會變成異常，異常的話它會自動跳出來。"],["徐委員欣瑩：那這次怎麼會那麼慢？"],["陳部長駿季：這個我們有，我們才一直提醒……"],["徐委員欣瑩：可是也是事後耶！"],["陳部長駿季：沒有、沒有。"],["徐委員欣瑩：也是事後，因為當你發現死亡豬隻的重量、車輛的數量異常的時候，你應該馬上就可以發現，不是等到比較後面。"],["陳部長駿季：對，這一次就是因為異常，我們看到異常，所以……"],["徐委員欣瑩：你們也是事後，不是即時的監測。"],["陳部長駿季：算是即時的，就是即時的。"],["徐委員欣瑩：算即時的？"],["陳部長駿季：算是即時，然後我們也會通報地方政府，地方政府也可以同步看到這個數據。"],["徐委員欣瑩：好，我們還是希望預防勝於撲殺。"],["陳部長駿季：對，這個我知道。"],["徐委員欣瑩：我們大家一起來努力。"],["陳部長駿季：好。"],["徐委員欣瑩：包含邊境的防疫，還有我們這個即時的監測數據。"],["陳部長駿季：我們會持續地精進，也不會把這個強度降低。"],["徐委員欣瑩：好，謝謝。"],["陳部長駿季：謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝。","登記發言委員除不在場者外，其餘都已經發言完畢，詢答結束。委員陳超明、陳冠廷所提書面質詢，列入紀錄，刊登公報。書面質詢以及未及答復部分，請相關單位於一週之內以書面答復，並副知本會。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":60,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-19-7","speakers":["楊瓊瓔","邱議瑩","林岱樺","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","張嘉郡","鄭正鈐","賴瑞隆","陳亭妃","張啓楷","邱志偉","呂玉玲","謝衣鳯","蔡易餘","陳培瑜","賴惠員","鍾佳濱","王鴻薇","黃捷","徐欣瑩","陳超明","陳冠廷"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-10-23"],"gazette_id":"1148901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148901_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期經濟委員會第7次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請農業部部長及財政部關務署首長就「非洲豬瘟防檢疫後續防疫精進作為」進行報告，並備質\n詢","agenda_id":"1148901_00001"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}