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bwd6"},{"start":892.227,"end":907.763,"text":"感谢观看"},{"start":1350.162,"end":1368.387,"text":"明镜及点点栏目"},{"start":1398.517,"end":1399.63,"text":"谢谢观看"},{"start":1464.667,"end":1475.034,"text":"谢谢观看"},{"start":1504.048,"end":1508.234,"text":"MING PAO CANADA MANGA"},{"start":1731.294,"end":1739.451,"text":"好先請主命報告出席人數報告聯席會出席委員18人已足法定人數好我們現在開會進行討論事項請宣讀"},{"start":1743.689,"end":1765.187,"text":"审查一行政行情审议产业创新条例部分条文修正草案案二本院委员葛如今等16人拟据产业创新条例第10条之一及第17条之一条文修正草案案三本院委员林大化等18人拟据产业创新条例第10条之一及第17条之一条文修正草案案"},{"start":1765.946,"end":1786.953,"text":"4.本院委员杨求英等29人拟据产业创新条例第10条之一及第72条条文修正草案案5.本院委员何新存等23人拟据产业创新条例第10条之一条文修正草案案6.本院委员邱毅英等16人拟据产业创新条例第10条之一及第72条条文修正草案案"},{"start":1788.053,"end":1813.688,"text":"7.本院委员蔡奇桑等18人拟据产业创新条例第10条之一及第72条条文修正草案案8.本院台湾民众党党团拟据产业创新条例第10条之一条文修正草案案9.本院委员谢一凤等16人拟据产业创新条例第10条之一及第72条条文修正草案案10.本院委员邱志伟等20人拟据产业创新条例部分条文修正草案案"},{"start":1814.477,"end":1818.421,"text":"好 謝謝本日議程所列的討論事項是產業創新條例部分條文修正草案一共有11個版本那現在我們進行委員的提案說明"},{"start":1838.058,"end":1844.584,"text":"在場有葛如君委員請葛如君委員做提案說明時間3分鐘"},{"start":1857.313,"end":1872.944,"text":"謝謝主席在場各位同仁大家早安本席的提案是修正產業創新條例第10條之一以及第17條之一主要是針對人工智慧的技術以及之後更先進的科技希望能夠給予盈利事業所得稅的投資抵減"},{"start":1873.824,"end":1891.498,"text":"并且在原条文在100万元以下11元以下的支出的金额天花板给取消大家都知道AI训练需要极高的训练的成本假设AI模型每年都强大10倍合理的推论训练的成本将会指数的成长"},{"start":1892.299,"end":1910.011,"text":"市場傳聞Chad GPT需要超過3萬顆的繪圖處理器OpenAI的執行長Sam Altman也說Chad GPT-4的訓練成本是1億美元Enthropic的聯合創始人Amede目前也說開發AI模型要花費10億美元以上"},{"start":1910.791,"end":1938.499,"text":"估計2025年2026年2027年訓練的成本甚至會膨脹到100億美元甚至1000億美元相較於本席的版本行政院的版本僅將支出底稅的上限由10億元台幣提高至18億元新台幣也就是6000萬美元跟我們剛剛所聽到這些10億美元100億美元甚至1000億美元比起來有著不小的落差"},{"start":1939.159,"end":1966.059,"text":"那么也就跟未来的这个AI训练还有相关的产业的实际支出呢有非常显著的距离所以呢希望今天列席的部位代表以及在场的各位委员都能够支持本席的版本让我们为AI产业的发展做最强而有力的推进器那另外一方面呢本席的版本也提到关于产业创新技术相关技术的人才培育支出应该要给予盈利事业所得税的抵减"},{"start":1968.12,"end":1997.313,"text":"本席的版本的特别强调有关巨量资料人工智慧物联网机器人以及区块链等等相关的领域相关的训练活动以及人行机器人等等新兴的产业这些支出的成本都希望政府给予相关的租税优惠正在现行条文第10条局限于研究发展相关支出才能抵税是有所不同的人才的培育相关训练所涵盖的样态更广我们的AI内阁呢喊出五年"},{"start":1997.893,"end":2022.181,"text":"要培育出20萬名的AI人才經濟部也是主責單位之一如果公有口號而不能給予產業實質的誘因那麼五年一到政府的20萬名AI人才恐怕淪為空頭支票經濟部的郭部長還有相關的部會官員如果決心要培育AI人才希望能夠大膽勇敢支持本席的版本"},{"start":2022.941,"end":2037.209,"text":"我想前面講的租稅優惠希望能夠將天花板提高而人才的培育也應該做相關的租稅抵減我們一起為提升台灣AI產業的競爭力而努力希望很請支持 謝謝好 謝謝下一位提案說明請楊瓊英委員"},{"start":2052.903,"end":2072.904,"text":"謝謝主席 楊瓊發言本位委員楊瓊英 鄭振前 翁曉琳 廖偉祥等29人我們有鑒於產業創新條例租稅優惠的措施是為了要優化產業的結構達到智慧升級轉型並鼓勵多元創新的一個效能原定租賃優惠的時間將於113年12月31號就已經屆滿"},{"start":2077.108,"end":2094.955,"text":"但是我們考慮到智慧機械可以協助產業在整個創新彈性高效的生產以及服務的一個優勢那麼國內的企業雖然已經達到了進行智慧化但是在整個結構的彈性處理必須要有一段的時間"},{"start":2096.255,"end":2110.671,"text":"所以仍有促進產業投資的應用的必要性所以我們凝聚了產業創新條例第10條之一以及第72條條文修正草案第10條之一也就是投資制使"},{"start":2111.412,"end":2127.665,"text":"使用之全新的智慧機械第五代的行動通訊系統資通安全資通安全的這個產品或服務人工智慧產品或服務那麼節能減碳之相關全新的硬體軟體"},{"start":2129.466,"end":2137.629,"text":"技術或者是技術服務那麼他比照的金額還是維持原來條文也就是在課稅年度內呢合計達到新台幣100萬以上那最高最高10萬元以下的範圍也就是在整個這個頭檢的英納盈利事業所得稅額這個當中這是第10條之一那第72條銜接的部分呢我們增訂了第7這個第72條的第"},{"start":2160.098,"end":2170.563,"text":"72條的第7項很重要的也就是本條例自我們中華民國某年某月某日修正之第10條之一施行期間我們從114年的1月1日起到118年的12月31號為止換句話說也就是希望能夠延續的來支持我們的產業"},{"start":2189.389,"end":2195.236,"text":"謝謝下一位提案說明委員請台灣民眾黨團張琦開委"},{"start":2211.029,"end":2223.956,"text":"為了促進這個產業發展所以我們今天台灣民眾黨特別提出了產業創新條例部分條文的修正案首先我們針對第10條之一本來這個租稅這個優惠本來已經要"},{"start":2229.605,"end":2242.492,"text":"達到這個落日條款的這個時間了我們的條文裡面特別把它延長到118年的12月31號把落日重新再讓太陽再升起來把這個優惠延長到118年12月31號"},{"start":2245.894,"end":2270.764,"text":"另外項目這段時間看起來有很多新興的科技有需要再放到新的裡面來所以我們這次的修正條文裡面我們擴大了優惠的投資項目特別增加了把人工智慧還有節能減碳納入這次的修法的內容裡面來這個是呼應了當前重大政策2050年淨零排碳還有整個AI的發展"},{"start":2274.534,"end":2292.653,"text":"另外在第十條之一的第三項為了考量AI整個科技的發展以及機械所見這個整個劑量的資料資訊化所以我們在這個條文裡面把人工智慧相關這個產品還有服務這個範圍做一個文字的整併跟文字的調整"},{"start":2295.416,"end":2309.452,"text":"另外在第四項針對最近推廣的5G行動系統我們也做了文字凶制讓法規可以符合當前的定義另外在增設第六項這部分最主要我們是把"},{"start":2310.753,"end":2328.863,"text":"這個行動通訊明定要人工智慧的這個技術跟它涵蓋的範圍要做一個更明確的一個定義讓這個法規用語能夠更與時俱進接地氣那提一個條款做一個一列的這個條款謝謝希望這是支持台灣民眾法提出的版本那今天除了經濟部次長在這邊財政部也在"},{"start":2331.204,"end":2355.369,"text":"那每次在這個修法過程之間我們有討論財政部每次都說不要修太大這個優惠不要太多然後項目不要太多不過我相信照台灣民眾黨這個項目看起來這個增加幅度應該不會很大對產業的創新也有很大幫助我們今天也呼籲今天財政部可以支持台灣民眾黨的版本 謝謝好 謝謝下一位提案說明委員請邱議員"},{"start":2366.172,"end":2389.943,"text":"謝謝主席主席各位同仁今天本席提出產業創新條例第十條之一及第七十二條的修正案這是一項針對我國產業發展需求跟全球趨勢量身定制的法案修正的目的是為了持續推動產業智慧升級轉型鼓勵多元創新應用並因應近鄰排放的全球趨勢協助國內產業在國際競爭中立於不敗之地"},{"start":2395.766,"end":2413.94,"text":"針對現行的條例裡頭我們包括智慧機械第五代行動通訊系統及資通安全產品或服務提供租稅優惠但這個試用的期間已經在113年底屆滿了為了延續對企業創新發展的支持本席建議延長試用期間至2029年"},{"start":2415.942,"end":2442.738,"text":"也就是从114年到118年同时也希望新增投资抵减项目包括人工智慧产品或服务及节能减碳措施这些新增的项目符合当前科技快速发展的脉动尤其是生成式人工智慧技术的应用及低碳转型将带来深远的影响跟经济的效益此外本席也认为为了降低企业投资的门槛"},{"start":2444.079,"end":2466.475,"text":"提升創新又應有必要進一步提高投資抵減的支出金額上限行政院版本提議的是18億元我們的版本提出將上限提高到20億元希望能夠更有效促進企業投入資本密集的智慧化與綠色轉型此舉將減輕企業對高額設備汰換的負擔並加速推動產業升級的進程"},{"start":2473.18,"end":2493.348,"text":"修法当中还对智慧机械人工智慧及节能减碳的项目进行更精准的定义确保优惠措施能聚焦于产业升级有重大效益的核心技术跟应用本次的修法不只是为了延续现有的政策更是为了回应企业未来需求与国际发展的挑战"},{"start":2494.008,"end":2516.872,"text":"我們希望透過這些措施能夠吸引更多的企業持續投資於智慧化與永續化的創新應用推動台灣邁向綠色智慧經濟的領導地位以上是本席的提議提案的緊要說明 敬請支持 謝謝好 謝謝接著請經濟部市長連井章市長做報告"},{"start":2524.747,"end":2550.733,"text":"主席 各位委員今天感謝貴委員會給本部在此向委員進行產創條例部分條件修正草案的一個專案報告那剛剛各位委員都有提到近年國際經濟情勢的變化快速產業場面擬新的趨勢跟挑戰尤其是淨領排放跟世衛轉型等議題而且產創條例第十條之一投資底點辦法也在去年底屆期所以本部就擬具了產創部分條件修正草案"},{"start":2551.246,"end":2565.498,"text":"那主要整個的修正的一個方向有三大構面第一個我們在產創時之一我們擴大設備投資底檢的適用範圍除了保留現行的智慧機械項目並提高智慧化程式之外5G"},{"start":2566.559,"end":2578.262,"text":"系統跟資安項目我們保留下來那新增人工智慧跟節能減碳項目同時把申請適用金額由現行的10億元提高到18億元那執行期間從114年1月1號到118年12月31號那在23之一有限合夥"},{"start":2586.284,"end":2592.486,"text":"創投四月投資新創租稅業會我們把出資的門檻由3億調降為1.5億元那在三之二的個人投資新創租稅業會部分我們將新創適用的範圍由現在設立未滿兩年放寬到未滿五年個人投資門檻由現行100萬調降為50萬同時如果是屬新創投資國家重點產業者他所得"},{"start":2610.431,"end":2634.04,"text":"檢除上限可提高到500萬元另外在對外投資管理機制上就是22條我們對於從事國外投資以特定國家或地區則我們增訂的特定產業或技術達一定金額以上的情形要事先向中央主管機關來申請核准同時增訂法則的一個配套措施"},{"start":2636.755,"end":2654.791,"text":"那以上是我們整個修訂的一個方向那建請大院、裁會黨團來支持本院行政院的版本然後通過以便早日完成修法程序讓業者在114年得以適用業位以上報告敬請各位委員指教好 謝謝 謝謝經濟部連次長的報告接下來請國發會請國發會高先貴副主委報告"},{"start":2664.049,"end":2691.692,"text":"主席各位委員大家早安今天很榮幸呈邀就產創條例修正草案進行報告那我想剛剛那個次長已經有談過這次產創條例的修正重點有三大重點那對台灣產業結構的調整還有企業競爭力的提升還有國家經濟安全的保障可以發揮極大的效用那第一個呢就是呢第一個就是新增的人工智慧跟節能減碳的項目呢"},{"start":2693.313,"end":2706.905,"text":"為這個設備投資極簡的適用範圍那這個修正將可帶動台灣淨零跟這個數位的雙軸轉型因應全球AI創新跟淨零碳排的挑戰跟機會第二個呢是鬆綁了有限合夥的創投事業還有"},{"start":2710.168,"end":2721.241,"text":"天使投資人的適用租稅的抵減的這些門檻及條件那這個修正將有助於引導更多的資金投注在新創的事業那對台灣創新創業將發揮積極的效應那第三個是調整對外投資的管制的機構"},{"start":2731.192,"end":2755.263,"text":"那将有助于台湾关键技术的保护以及产业竞争力的提升尤其是目前台湾面临全球地缘政治风险的升高这个修正将更为重要那我想基于这个修正可以确保台湾将来竞争力的提升产业就构的调整跟经济安全的保障然后我们建请大院能支持这个法案的修正以上报告"},{"start":2759.224,"end":2778.145,"text":"謝謝國發會高先貴副主任報告 接著請財政部次長李慶華次長做報告主席各位委員先進大家好 那今天財政委員會聯席審查行政院行政審議的產創條例相關修正草案還有大院以及各黨團以及黨團"},{"start":2779.045,"end":2802.299,"text":"所提议的修正草案总共有11案那有关这行政院版本的部分修正重点经济部刚才已经详语说明了我们就不再重复说明那只是针对有关大约各委员党团体案的部分简要说明如下那关于这个本条第10条之一提高这个就是支出的金额上限以及扩大适用范围延长施行期间其实跟行政院的版本大致相同"},{"start":2803.799,"end":2830.066,"text":"因为行政院的版本已经充分考量产业的需求以及未来科技发展的趋势并且针对产业的需要来检讨相关的内容所以建议能够支持行政院的版本有关委员提案增订本条例17条之一人才培训支出投资体检的部分考量企业人才培育大多是基于自身经营的需求而且现行国际上已经多无类似的租税优惠"},{"start":2830.726,"end":2856.389,"text":"我们建议能够维持现行的规定另外研发投资抵减的部分在于提高抵减率及适用范围部分这个部分也是考量我国现行一例事业所得税的税率跟邻近产业的结构类似的国家相较已经是偏低的而且我们所提供的租税要会其实跟邻近国家也都相当类似所以我们也希望这个部分能够建议维持现行的条文"},{"start":2856.989,"end":2881.402,"text":"至於還有人提案放寬第23條之一適用門檻23條之二適用主體及增第23條之四創業投資事業的股東投資點部分呢主要是因為現行我們稅法已經對投資業者提供多項的清稅的規定那這個部分呢對於獲利部分減輕了相當提供了頗為優惠的課稅規定那如果再提高這個投資成本的減稅優惠"},{"start":2882.463,"end":2910.364,"text":"可能会有这个重复抵减的问题或者多重的所得税优惠那跟纳税者权利保护法第六条租税优惠的不得过度的规定呢有些不符所以我们建议能够审慎考量那今天这个版本行政院的版本其实已经通盘对这个产业发展的趋势以及需求都已经适度修正扩大了相关的租税优惠措施所以我们也敬请支持行政院的版本那以上报告及说明敬请各位文职教育支持谢谢"},{"start":2912.236,"end":2929.368,"text":"好 謝謝 謝謝財政部李慶華次長的報告那有關於數位發展部跟環境部的書面報告請委員致敬參議院我們並刊登公報我們進行合併詢答委員詢答之前主席原意做以下宣告每日委員發言時間本人席會"},{"start":2931.369,"end":2958.059,"text":"為5分鐘必要時延長1分鐘非本會委員4分鐘上午10點即時發言登記也為了讓會議能夠順利進行也兼顧每位委員發言的公平性以及盡可能不要影響下位委員的發言權益在每位委員諮詢時間結束之後主席會立即請諮詢委員聽諮詢,還請各位委員能夠配合,感謝好,第一位諮詢請邱毅委員"},{"start":2967.642,"end":2987.516,"text":"好 謝謝主席 我先請一下經濟部請經濟部連次長歐院長次長早 次長很高興今天還可以在這裡看到你來 那個在我們"},{"start":2989.051,"end":3008.55,"text":"首先我想要先請教一個時事題馬上就要過年了那這個經濟部在日前有宣布春節的油價方案是止跌不漲對不對所以你們會在這個時候把這個油品的價格去把它控制在一定的油氣都不會調"},{"start":3009.13,"end":3034.089,"text":"油氣都不會調那水電呢因為我看到卓院長說這個水價應該要適度的調整那開始就有媒體在寫說這個卓榮泰只是水價要上漲所以你們可能會上漲四成那很多人開始人心惶惶我是不是利用這個機會讓經濟部也說明一下好不好你們現在水電有沒有調整的方案那如果有什麼時候會做"},{"start":3038.117,"end":3060.957,"text":"來我跟你們報告其實這個水電是不是要漲這個都有一個審議委員會而且這個審議委員會在調的時候也會通盤考量到國內的整個經濟情況還有民生的一個消費一個狀況不會說貿然去調整所以一定會經過一個深思熟慮的一個情況再來調整那院長講的只是說我們可以去討論但是討論不一定會去做一點"},{"start":3061.678,"end":3081.767,"text":"也要等到一個不是說討論就一定是你還是要等到你們的審議委員會討論完之後才會確定嘛對不對審議委員會一定會經過通盤完整的考量才會去做一些決定所以我想對於媒體這樣的報導我覺得可能你們也應該要去跟媒體做一些澄清因為第一個還沒有經過討論"},{"start":3083.717,"end":3109.326,"text":"也不知道他到底會不會漲即使會漲也不一定是像媒體講的那樣子對啊媒體馬上就給你寫說漲四成所以我認為這樣的一個報導其實對於大家覺得要過年了經濟部在處理會讓人心惶惶是所以我想這個可能經濟部你們可能還是要再去再去做一些澄清再去做一些說明我們有事實對外澄清說這個東西"},{"start":3111.727,"end":3134.578,"text":"接下來我想還是要請教一下次長我們今天討論這個產創條例這個大概整理了一下這個是你們行政院的幾個版本我現在大概幾個問題要請教這個問題大概其實大家都覺得抵減金額到底應該要多少會比較好行政院的版本是18億那本席提出的版本是20億"},{"start":3135.879,"end":3160.994,"text":"那我的這個版本20億的數字呢其實是跟郭智慧部長希望的20億是一樣的可是我剛剛聽了財政部的報導他說我們已經通盤考量過了我們就這樣已經很好了所以呢他希望大院支持你們18億次長你們怎麼看因為我們這是行政院版本我們在內部所以你現在還是必須要支持行政院版本你還是只能講18億嘛對不對如果當20億會不會比較好一點"},{"start":3165.646,"end":3190.319,"text":"如果到20億會不會比較好?你覺得到了20億是不是對企業的誘因會更增強一點?18億跟20億差2億而已政府怎麼不可以比較大幅度誘因一點?內部討論是有考慮到一些橫平性還有一些租稅方面的一個橫平性的問題橫平性跟租稅方面喔?來那個陳陳布市長我請教一下"},{"start":3193.508,"end":3198.292,"text":"18億跟20億只有差一點點 到底你們有沒有去精算過 差這個2億你們的稅損會差多少所以如果不是太多的話 為什麼不能變成20億"},{"start":3212.184,"end":3235.339,"text":"報告委員 基本上我們當然是因為這個18億也是我們跟經濟部在行政院充分討論大家獲得的共識我瞭解是經濟部堅持喔那個是財政部堅持喔 部長他希望的是20億喔所以部長現在還是在對外講說他希望能夠去爭取到20億如果說有差一點點或者是有超過20億的他還要想辦法去幫他們爭取一些優惠喔"},{"start":3236.219,"end":3257.855,"text":"其实我们有参考就是以往年度我们提供这个十条之一置机投底的那个金额大家适用的状况那其实看起来大部分的企业都是符合规定的都在我们那个十亿的金额以下那只是说少部分的产业当然有一部分会超过但是这次我们也配合就是加入人工智慧还有就是节能减碳我们也把这个金额提高了"},{"start":3258.235,"end":3273.041,"text":"那其實這個金額我們也是考慮說因為企業其實它購置機器設備它不會一次全部買足因為它是分年或者是分批分階段購置所以基本上它每一年只要在這個金額範圍內它都可以使用這個投資體檢優惠大家也知道一個設備如果金額很龐大勢必是要分階段分年來購置的所以我們覺得這個18億的金額其實也是我們在行政院跟經濟部也是有討價還價的結果才決定了這個金額我覺得你們我剛問了那個稅損"},{"start":3286.907,"end":3304.147,"text":"會差多少你們有沒有算過稅水二十億的部分你當然這樣講你當然說因為那個設備購資他不會一次一次把它購足他會分年我當然知道他會分年但是如果政府能夠更大方一點我提供更好的租稅優惠更好的這些條件"},{"start":3306.082,"end":3332.171,"text":"我覺得其實它是會創造更多的誘因創造更多的投資而且你現在講的人工智慧其實很多的這些設備費用是跟你往年的這些設備費用其實是天差地別的所以你現在講說往年只有10億所以也達不到這個那我現在提高到18億我覺得已經對他們很好了我認為如果是這樣的思維其實這個不叫創新啦你們還是在講說我已經有給你了啦這樣已經夠了啦"},{"start":3334.733,"end":3344.198,"text":"而且您剛剛的報告其實你就跟各國來比較跟各國比較你就覺得說我們沒有比人家差但是你沒有告訴我你有沒有比人家好"},{"start":3345.734,"end":3371.288,"text":"這就是我們最大的問題你知道嗎你都告訴我說人家也有這樣啊人家也沒有那樣啊所以我們不會比人家差但是你沒有告訴我你提的這些東西有沒有比人家好所以我想這一點我覺得你們應該要換一個角度去思考你提出來的東西有沒有比人家好有沒有比其他國家好有沒有比其他國家更優惠這個才是創造誘因最大的利基點"},{"start":3372.168,"end":3379.89,"text":"因為主席已經站起來 我就不再多說了但是我覺得可能你們還要再去思考一下好 謝謝委員好 謝謝邱委員 下一個質詢請陳提菲委員謝謝主席 我們請次長哪一位次長連次長連次長"},{"start":3402.717,"end":3429.11,"text":"院長市長早市長其實我們當每一次在談我們的新創或是中小企業然後現在增加了我們昨天剛公布然後今天早上馬上可以上線申請的中小微企業其實我們爭取很久了就是說我們過去所看到都是中小企業但是幾乎都忘了其實在"},{"start":3430.635,"end":3453.44,"text":"最有底氣在基底為我們打拼我們創造經濟奇蹟的很多都是30人以下的包括零售業製造業還有服務業可是往往我們在龐大的一些協助轉型的預算當中都忘了他們的存在所以我們談了好久爭取好久終於"},{"start":3454.6,"end":3480.26,"text":"我們的中小微企業也就是30人以下的多元振興發展計畫正式上路就在今天可是我們在談的我們現在就是三個策略數位轉型 淨零轉型 通路發展是我們在這一次中小微企業多元振興發展計畫的三策略然後"},{"start":3481.511,"end":3508.945,"text":"三配套也就是30以下企業優惠貸款租稅優惠還有為員工加薪納入信保審核機制這叫三配套一窗口我們馬上辦服務中心在我們馬上辦其中有90線有90線喔這個是創了過去我們一直在提醒每一次我們的專案一出來"},{"start":3512.008,"end":3532.132,"text":"響叮噹然後大家講得很大聲可是實質真正受眾群搞不清楚因為受眾群沒有辦法完全得到我們的資訊結果最後為了要考積業績趕快隨便找幾個人說你趕快來申請趕快來申請"},{"start":3536.052,"end":3556.91,"text":"沒有辦法真正達到受眾群需要的人身上這在過去我們每次在專案計畫當中非常重要的問題而且當他們知道了來不及了因為整個專案預算已經申請光所以在這一次"},{"start":3558.852,"end":3569.908,"text":"從一開始我特別安排了我們部長還有一個單位去到市商會去跟所有最重要的受眾群也就是工會"},{"start":3572.23,"end":3600.516,"text":"百工百業百工百業對於在這一個中小微企業其實是最直接最重要的受眾群所以當那一天說完之後他們有很多的開心終於終於所以我們好不容易撥了這一筆預算我們怎麼能夠到位沒錯我們現在有馬上辦服務中心可是馬上辦服務中心能夠真的到位嗎"},{"start":3601.796,"end":3626.237,"text":"我還特別請了我的辦公室做了圖卡最直接的圖卡 最接地氣 而且最跟人民聲音接近人聽話啦一些圖卡趕快來做散播因為我們希望把這麼好的東西真正能夠協助我們中小企業來做轉型中小為企業所以市長"},{"start":3630.509,"end":3639.305,"text":"到底在這一次你預期今天開始登記嗎開始可以申請嗎你們認為你們在前面宣傳的夠嗎"},{"start":3643.115,"end":3660.607,"text":"現在開始因為我們部長今天下午要召開這個專案會議啦因為就是他有委員邀請他到台南去嘛然後他聽完之後他覺得說就像委員講的說我們這個一定要把訊息整個把它廣泛的要把它讓所有人知道你要對著受眾群啊對對所以他今天下午針對這些"},{"start":3662.228,"end":3687.856,"text":"他已經要開專案會議來盯這件事情所以說這個事情我們部長已經是列為我們專案而且每個禮拜要跟他做報告我們當時候第一時間就趕快給所有百工百業還有給所有的我們的理事長或各工業區的理事長所以我們認為你的受眾群而且受眾群你不是單一窗口馬上辦服務中心請問這90縣"},{"start":3691.653,"end":3711.791,"text":"他们都完完全全知道怎么申请可以去协助吗我请到副署长说明一下吧我们之前有把这些90线的人加强训练然后把所有的QA放在上面那当然我们的网页上面也有一些智能的回答他们可以帮忙做盘点"},{"start":3712.592,"end":3730.633,"text":"做診斷嗎沒有他們會把這個他的需求還是他們就是把需求然後登錄下來再轉接給相關單位我們會立刻幫他對接因為中小企業並不知道要對接誰所以就是由我們這個單一窗口立刻把他對接到我們會有一個服務團"},{"start":3732.9,"end":3746.804,"text":"所以你會把案子如果打進來我們的馬上辦服務中心你們會馬上對接給服務團 輔導團啦對不對 給輔導團 由輔導團去做直接的協助盤點 診斷 它適合哪一個區塊是數位轉型 還是淨零轉型 還是通路發展 對不對"},{"start":3762.849,"end":3786.643,"text":"這很重要喔市長我今天會再利用這個時間因為我很重視因為這是我們從過去一直爭取一直爭取好不容易看到曙光也好不容易看到整個案子能夠真正的推出雖然經費不大可是起碼可以有一個契機還有另外一個部分就是在我們銀行端"},{"start":3787.623,"end":3808.111,"text":"我們現在有一個問題喔我們現在給大家很多的期待喔可是銀行端是不是最後又會站在他們自己立場的考量然後以高標以高標來做限制這個你們要去處理我們會注意我們會透過聯府中心跟信保這一塊來協助處理這個很重要再拜託"},{"start":3811.172,"end":3833.704,"text":"這個不要我們提出來說哇 你看喔你可以申請三千五百萬這範圍當中都可以結果講得很大聲事實上可以核准的這些三十人以下的都完全得不到真正政府的協助拜託 一定要每一個點都盤整到底而且都協助到底 再拜託這我保證他們自己訂在廣告訂在廣告 請你回座"},{"start":3838.874,"end":3856.512,"text":"好 謝謝 先為志願請郭博文議員謝謝主席 有請經濟部的連次還有財政部的連次財政部理事長"},{"start":3862.369,"end":3885.511,"text":"我先請蓮池喔蓮池你這麼早退休是國家的損失啊沒有啦沒有啦蓮池今天的這個主題當中的稅市支出當中的報告我看到又發了投資金了智慧機械還佔440億但是新增的部分的AI只佔了72億老實講我是覺得很誇張因為國會跟國科會已經投入"},{"start":3885.811,"end":3907.704,"text":"百億的這個研發經費預計要帶動這個產業發展再加上行政院說要推動大南方的新矽谷計畫也在台南的沙崙建立了AI產業園區賴總統甚至說要打造成一個人工智慧島要成為全球的AI的影響力中心我請教一下這72億可以達到這種效果嗎是的"},{"start":3908.922,"end":3931.268,"text":"那個各位報告那個是整個是AI講的你是70而已是購置設備啦喔是硬體啦它又發出來的效果不是70而已是購置設備而已設置設備而已所以說它基本上後面的potential的部分大概有多少啊potential不一樣搞不好會有10倍20倍左右對啊你們要寫清楚啊這要寫出來才有感覺嘛"},{"start":3932.208,"end":3954.446,"text":"不然你花那麼多國家經費下去然後喊了口號又震天響結果呢導致的結果就72還比這個傳統的智慧晶蟹的部分440億差那麼多另外一個部分川普1月20號要上任那川普要上任的時候你要知道拜登時代我們跟他談了21世紀貿易協議基本上是要走向自由化"},{"start":3954.966,"end":3971.412,"text":"可是川普呢你也知道他現在對外關稅已經成立一個專責機構也就是說他拉高關稅基本上兩個是相抵觸的我就問你一個問題這21世紀貿易協議我們已經要進入第二階段的生存區包括勞工 環保 農業的部分還走了下去嗎"},{"start":3972.703,"end":3998.203,"text":"抱歉這個我沒有涉獵到是OTA你沒有涉獵到但是你們國貿局底下也是有參與啊你們經濟部會沒有參與嗎會不清楚嗎應該要清楚才對啊怎麼會不可能我查過你們是小組之一嗎回答一下那個我請貿易署的副署長讓得下去嗎委員好那這個部分我們要等這個川普政府上來之後你等他上任你現在都沒有評估不會吧"},{"start":4001.306,"end":4015.877,"text":"還在等所以預期到人家的政策方向是這樣子啦你們現在ING進行中也沒有可能繼續你真的沒有辦法回到本席沒有做一個評估我有點壓抑欸跟委員報告針對川普他的團隊要嚴厲要"},{"start":4018.719,"end":4042.008,"text":"提升那個關稅這個部分我們是有在做研究說有哪一些廠商或哪一些一個是自由化一個是要提高關稅壁壘一個是走經濟民族主義一個是採取那個自由化的方式完全是不一樣的你怎麼會沒有一個政策判斷呢第一個是這一個第二個他關稅如果提高的話我就問你一個嘛他關稅之所以提高原因是在三半位順利差的部分嘛對不對"},{"start":4042.968,"end":4053.744,"text":"他認為對他美國國家損失嘛那我就問你啦 強勢我們再來算2024年我們對美國的出超你知道多少嗎最新的數字"},{"start":4056.738,"end":4076.073,"text":"649億沒有沒有我現在這邊數字是649億然後你比2023的部分成長了83.5%大幅成長大幅成長喔之前大概300多億而已你看看我們有沒有可能會被針對的對象有沒有可能我們是列在第十幾個"},{"start":4077.35,"end":4104.242,"text":"報告委員那這個其實是一個所謂一個像我們對中國的出口這我知道啦我們廠商撤回來從我們這邊出口就算我們的啦但是事實上就增加了嘛是報告委員那我們出口到這個美國的產品基本上都是中間品其實是對它經濟發展是非常有利的我們會從這個方面所以你不認為我們會被制裁我們關稅不會被提高你很樂觀很有把握"},{"start":4105.442,"end":4126.492,"text":"我們會盡量去跟美方去溝通去溝通我跟你講人家我們之前在財政委員會央行都有具體的做法他說要平衡這個貿易順利差的部分第一個買武器第二個買農產品第三個買他的天然能源也就是天然氣你們沒有做"},{"start":4128.743,"end":4153.886,"text":"你們連有做都沒有做都不曉得我都跟你們查出來了你們之前是澳洲卡達最近美國已經買到他10%了跟美國能源合作這一塊我們有在研擬也在研擬那我就想要請教你嘛央行都提出具體主張那我請問一下經濟部對於這種現象有沒有什麼具體主張嘛尤其是你要退休我在問你這個實在沒有意思啊但是你現在還是官員啊"},{"start":4154.927,"end":4167.413,"text":"跟委員報告那個尤其是那個應該是4月份的有什麼具體做法嗎你怎麼不跟他要告訴我說1月20號上任再來說5月份的那個美國USA我們會擴大"},{"start":4170.174,"end":4173.699,"text":"整個投資團會過去具體一點擴大投資團會是什麼擴大你就是等於要買美國的東西買更多一點那這個是除了有購買有投資之外這個是尤其是ICT產業或電動車產業怎麼在美國跟美墨之間"},{"start":4187.296,"end":4204.097,"text":"怎麼去做一個投資你投資設廠當然就不用算出口的金額這是救地的方式好方式就是減除我們這個貿易順差的數字這個我理解但是問題是你直接跟美國買的部分他還比較開心一點你可以跟他買什麼"},{"start":4205.285,"end":4234.629,"text":"武器不是你管的嘛 農業不是你管的嘛經濟部你管的可以管什麼嘛 能源我們有在研議啦能源 我剛剛說的啊 天然氣能不能透露一下除了本席說的以外的東西 還有沒有其他的嘛天然氣在我們整個能源政策的佔比是佔50% 天然氣當然重要啊買這個本來就符合我們能源政策 你還有沒有其他的方式我問了這麼久了目前沒有都沒有 目前都沒有"},{"start":4236.24,"end":4257.564,"text":"目前都沒有我建議喔 那個次長 退休之前跟部長講一下啦我知道部長很忙啦 這個問題是最重要的啦我們很有可能會被鎖定啦 謝謝好 謝謝郭國務委員來 次長 兩位次長先回座消費諮詢消費諮詢取政天才為"},{"start":4276.508,"end":4299.815,"text":"主席 國務委員有請次長還有國發會的副主委應該是連次長了國發會的高副主委兩位好這今天產業創新條例的修正行政院版本有特別提到這個"},{"start":4302.273,"end":4328.538,"text":"第十條之一新增人工智慧及節能減碳項目人工智慧的部分如果今天未來三讀通過修正條文人工智慧這四個字會是在產業創新條例是第一個法例有人工智慧這個用詞"},{"start":4330.202,"end":4356.068,"text":"那這個國科會國科會在113年7月15日依告這個人工智慧基本法的草案這依告從去年的7月15日依告60天後來並沒有送到行政院行政院也還沒有送到立法院"},{"start":4357.304,"end":4383.809,"text":"所以在這個人工智慧基本法裡面當然有這個人工智慧的定義那我們現在這個產業創新條例沒有定義所以這個是一個需要考量的部分那為什麼這個人工智慧基本法預告然後沒有送行政院我不知道有沒有審查我不清楚至少沒有送到立法院"},{"start":4386.087,"end":4407.875,"text":"台灣人權促進會特別針對這個人工智慧基本法的草案發表了一篇文章而且是在這個預告之前預告之前就提出了這樣的一個疑慮有很多的疑慮但我只是摘入了部分的這個"},{"start":4411.991,"end":4439.716,"text":"針對台灣人潛出境會針對人工智慧基本法所關心的是不是因為這個所以後來沒有沒有這個行政沒有送來我不清楚我要說的是說因為今天並沒有這個國科會的這個官員在這邊所以國發會或是經濟部對於人工智慧把納入進去基本上"},{"start":4442.435,"end":4468.934,"text":"因為你們是我們是要擴大增加他的項目然後要給他一些相關的這些協助這些當然這個部分是我們的法律沒有跟上事實上這個人工智慧在相關的這些推動上都在做這個國安會你知道你們有相關人工智慧的法規嗎"},{"start":4471.958,"end":4479.004,"text":"跟我們報告,我想人工智慧是五大信賴產業之一,那當然就基本法的話,我們沒有,基本上這個,有,我告訴你,有,有,也是一,產業創新條例,第九條第二項,"},{"start":4493.218,"end":4515.464,"text":"授權裡面定的那個辦法那個辦法裡面有提到你們法規名稱就有提到人工智慧我想人工智慧是一個名詞它可以出現在不同的法律裡面那剛才委員問的是說人工智慧的法規法律是第一個人工智慧基本法應該是第一個法規裡面你們是第一個"},{"start":4516.604,"end":4544.421,"text":"好這個我只不過是把這個讓你們去了解是說當我們立法院審查這個法案條文這個法務部也提供相關的資訊看看或者是說在審查之前你們去跟那個國會了解一下到底問題出在哪裡這樣好不好這樣我們對這個法律的審查會有所幫助這是一個部分好這個"},{"start":4547.965,"end":4573.817,"text":"這裡面這次的條文的修正又增加自然語言對不對自然語言如果只有寫自然語言我不知道原來這個經濟部修正這個產業創新條例把自然語言放進去到底是全世界的自然語言呢還是只有台灣的自然語言"},{"start":4576.873,"end":4597.93,"text":"因為只有寫自然語言四個字跟我們報告這個自然語言跟這個的自然語言是不一樣是我們人工智慧的專有名詞在用的因為他們有通用的那個Code或是那個程式所以跟這個我們現在講的這個語言發展法這個是不是說英文中文或是說是全世界的自然語言就對了"},{"start":4599.331,"end":4622.067,"text":"對 當然是通用型的那個電工智慧的技術上的專業也給法務部提供看怎麼樣去考量這個部分因為自然語言我們法律有啊 對不對我們自己國家的法律有自然語言的定義喔我只是沒有列進去而已啊我們把它弄得清楚一點因為你只有寫自然語言到底是哪個範圍是這樣 好不好"},{"start":4626.888,"end":4631.718,"text":"好 謝謝鄭天才委員請回座下一位質詢請謝英鳳委員"},{"start":4648.711,"end":4656.251,"text":"謝謝主席 我想要請連次長跟我們高副主委經濟部連次長 國會高副主委"},{"start":4662.048,"end":4683.578,"text":"我想請問一下就是去年他台電停掉了桃園以北就是5MW以上的資料中心的申請因為用電不要那個南電北送的緣故嘛那未來威達如果設總部在台北的時候這個怎麼處理"},{"start":4684.813,"end":4693.918,"text":"那個台電不是說要停掉那個是說要因地制宜然後要去做一些對啊他就說什麼才要要求說是不是說地方政府如果你真的產業要發展要用電的時候也可以支持說在地的有一些電源的設置啊"},{"start":4704.352,"end":4726.15,"text":"所以如果威達總部要設在台北用電是沒有問題嗎我們會充分供應會充分供應嗎但是你們就算沒有威達那在台北地區的用電的供需目前是高達了200億度的這個gap"},{"start":4729.913,"end":4756.679,"text":"對不對 有這樣子的差距耶這怎麼解決所以這個要透過電容的一個調度啦要怎麼調度那個我請台電說明一下發國委員 那個北部現在整體來講它確實供電的是小於需求啦就用電端的是比較大所以如果要解決要兩個一個就是北部要區域的平衡其實電源在北部要增加是不是要用核電"},{"start":4759.431,"end":4776.684,"text":"核電還是要考慮到那幾個問題是不是要用核電核電其實委員也知道其實就是法令要更改然後再來就是核安的因為你有研發中心又有總部未來在沙崙還要設置那個什麼還要設置超維那未來整體台灣的用電是不是要用核電"},{"start":4785.7,"end":4801.19,"text":"核電的問題還是跟委員報告就是要解決一個法令一個是核能安全還有現在核配料的處理以及全民的共識那現在目前來看整個台灣來講它全部全島的電其實是足夠的是沒問題"},{"start":4802.151,"end":4824.833,"text":"所以委員剛才提到如果北部現在區域的這個限制的話他就是必須要靠中南部的電送上來他確實是有電網上的限制所以台電為什麼要去做防任的計畫就是希望能夠強化這個電網的韌性這樣子讓能夠北送的還有加上北部區域電網的增加讓北部的電未來會越來越穩當這樣市長要不要核對"},{"start":4827.98,"end":4833.466,"text":"反正你都要退休了你可以講啊 你可以講實話啊這個核電還叫做依法行政啦因為現在法令是這樣規定再來就剛才講的那200億度的這個gap他去怎麼處理"},{"start":4843.124,"end":4863.322,"text":"這個就是剛才我們副總講的就是要透過整個電網的潤性然後來調度還有增加區域性的一個電源這樣來區域性的電源怎麼增加那因為現在我們在談那個市街嘛那這個東西也希望說大家能夠來支持還有啊他說要一萬坪以上的土地對不對"},{"start":4863.993,"end":4873.323,"text":"那土地這個當然就是要看所有的台灣的土地你最清楚啦可以做工業園區可以做產業園區的土地你最清楚啊台北哪裡有"},{"start":4874.903,"end":4896.736,"text":"南港?還是什麼?一濱?一濱可以嗎?不夠?還是可以往上發展?因為它有它的設廠的一個設置的條件對啊,一濱可以往上發展啊,是不是?也不一定,反正只是總部而已啊,對不對?不一定需要很大的基地啊,是不是?一濱有沒有辦法?"},{"start":4899.909,"end":4925.26,"text":"因為我沒辦法幫他 還是新北這個還是由公司自己來宣布好 那我們請那個副主委 高副主委喔那個如果啊 就是相關的這些 威達啦 超委啦等等的事的那我們估計 就只有威達而言他就需要2500位的員工那對於這個徵才部分呢"},{"start":4926.161,"end":4942.499,"text":"怎麼樣處理我們台灣大專院校的STEM的人才的培養那有沒有辦法支應這2500位威達喔 這威達就2500位喔那其他的呢 超維或者是台積電等等高科技產業"},{"start":4943.761,"end":4963.317,"text":"跟委員報告 其實我們吸引這些國際大廠來台灣設廠其實我們都有同步要求他一定要把招攬他國外的人才的一定的比重我們有要求第二個我們會要求他要訓練附帶訓練我們國內的相關的科技的人才"},{"start":4964.197,"end":4981.295,"text":"然後當然我們也認為其實如果我們當然他某個程度上會排擠我們國內的其他的大廠的人才來運用可是我們會覺得說如果其實這些國際大廠來的話也有助於訓練我們具有國際性的科技人才的效應啦"},{"start":4982.096,"end":5001.683,"text":"那委員也知道現在我們全力的做纜柴包括我們在東南亞我們很多這種產學專班就是那個應該新型專班其實就是吸引東南亞就是大概是前800大全球前800大的學校就是他們全力纜柴然後需要他來他也帶人才進來然後同時訓練本國的科技人才"},{"start":5009.266,"end":5025.077,"text":"也就是說我們還是儘量採多管齊下的方式來從實兼顧科技大廠可以來台我們人才也不會流失的相關的問題那他大概會做他大概會帶多少的國外人才進來25%就是2500位的25%"},{"start":5032.242,"end":5054.455,"text":"那其他的部分就由就是東南亞的或者是我們國內的高科技人才的相關的培訓也要求他要同時提供他訓練我們本國人才的一些相關的規劃我們都有很多方面去要求他好 謝謝 趙偉再給我一分鐘最後問我們李企華次長謝謝李次長"},{"start":5059.919,"end":5071.023,"text":"市長 財政部對於我們產創的相關的這是租稅的優惠我們既然要協助產業也要扶植我們國內的相關的產業因應國際的情勢"},{"start":5074.504,"end":5085.433,"text":"為什麼你們都是很保守的就是說抵抗然後好像不積極你看到嗎過去我們在就是說我們對於這個降稅就是當沖降稅有沒有我們看到了我們增加了降稅反而增加了超多的稅收是不是為國家增加超多的稅收而且讓大型的頭顧跟金控在做他們相關的槓桿的時候這就是他們的啊當然"},{"start":5103.326,"end":5122.359,"text":"我們要避免小型的投資人不需要給他們過度的使用當沖造成他們的投資的風險這個部分我們到底財政部有沒有辦法相關的控管對於產業的租稅優惠有沒有辦法提供"},{"start":5123.3,"end":5148.893,"text":"報告委員其實我們這次是積極的配合經濟部研議這個提供租稅優惠的措施這點其實財政部是在行政院討論過程當中我們都是充分支持的所以你們會充分支持嗎對你們不會再過度的保守行政院這個版本就是我們兩個部會大家在行政院充分討論的結果大家提出來一個共識對好謝謝謝謝委員謝謝委員請回座消費資源請張啟導人"},{"start":5174.454,"end":5189.419,"text":"請聯視長請金吾聯視長委員好市長 要過年了讓大家好好過年一下最近傳那個水電都要漲這個你們有明確講不會嗎"},{"start":5192.216,"end":5221.099,"text":"有確定喔有確定過年不會去啦過年也不能隨便去喔那個一定要經過一個審慎的一個評估完之後經過兩個審議委員會去通訪去檢討過年已經不會去過年也不能隨便去好不好要讓大家好過年我講 只要尤其是電啦只要電一漲那個萬物起漲過去三年已經漲了五次了人民真的太苦了好不好想辦法不要想辦法不要漲所以今天啊"},{"start":5222.452,"end":5250.503,"text":"你要退休了我們這位來想我們一起來找不要漲電價的方法好這位來催這位來催我幫你找到一個很重要的蔡英文啦蔡英文總統他有提到電價在十年內不會大漲他講了三個理由來看看他講啊地雷只要落實節能就是省電啦使用效率增加了就不需要多繳電費啊"},{"start":5253.866,"end":5271.751,"text":"這個你們做了嗎這個落實我們現在推深度節能已經深度節能齁省多少電等一下給我一個報告我們今年從八月到現在這樣齁我們省了差不多將11億好 市長你退休錢給我你們省了多少電齁等一下他說啦你2000階段啦價格雖然是高但是說"},{"start":5272.745,"end":5289.717,"text":"它是2016年說的 但是它說兩個重點它說只要科技是會進步的規模擴大以後 成本自然就下降了奇怪喔 科技真的有進步啊 對不對你們買綠電 規模會擴大啦可是價格沒有漲 來我給你看一下來我統計啊 為民國100年 110年到115年 來給你看一下"},{"start":5299.144,"end":5303.086,"text":"再生能源這個過電的這個價格110年90.79那時候平均單價就是多少4.69到113你看看你那時候價格從4.6反而跳到5.46你買這個綠電的這個錢從426億到113年跳到1311億跟蔡英文講的完全不一樣"},{"start":5328.987,"end":5351.084,"text":"市長 第一 科技有進步嘛 對不對第一 量確實有 像蔡英文講的你們買的量是有增加嘛 對不對可是價格一直在漲啊這出什麼事情因為這個後來是因為那個前面是光電後面是離岸風電所以兩個是不太一樣的所以第一 人民看到這是弊案嘛"},{"start":5352.213,"end":5366.344,"text":"第二個就是你們整個設計上為什麼會越來越高沒有達到他做的嘛第三個他要講的一個理由他說未來會修改電力法讓廠跟網提高並且提高台電的經營績效讓電價更為合理這個你們沒有做吧沒有做對不對"},{"start":5372.681,"end":5399.484,"text":"因為現在我們有提一個那個電力法要來修正因為整個經濟情況改變還有能源結構改變喔所以你看蔡英文以前說電不會大漲啊對不對啊你們就是三點看起來第一點可能做了一部分可是做的也不夠啦你想古年水電費中央政府的開配十億今年變成一百億啊你哪有省電對不對所以看起來三個都跳票喔"},{"start":5400.473,"end":5426.66,"text":"所以你要去想辦法去把這三個第三個可能你們已經做不到的你們又要修法又要倒貼入啊可是你要去想一想當初為什麼當總統的會提出這樣一個讓電不要漲的可以參考嘛好不好好來我們再繼續來想辦法我相信經濟部跟台電一定做了很多改善的報告對不對我問你一下從2016年到現在"},{"start":5429.379,"end":5432.167,"text":"台電有幾年它的稅務盈虧啊是呈現虧損的一百"},{"start":5436.328,"end":5460.022,"text":"216年開始 幾乎每年都虧損對不對剛開始2016可能要好一點點 後來動越來越大巴委員其實在俄烏戰爭之前 台電還是有營餘的所以烏俄戰爭之前是有營餘的嘛那後來我們也三度撥普 讓你漲的電價該漲的啊到今天還在虧 其實不是烏俄戰爭啦就是基本上 我相信台灣人民所有人都知道第一就是你從最廉價"},{"start":5461.926,"end":5489.545,"text":"你核能不用嘛第二你去買綠電的時候買得太貴跟一幣按嘛現在的事這個等下大漏洞把它補起來你就會賺錢了啦好來 第一個進一步問台電為2016年開始寫過幾次改善公司體質還有營運績效的有關報告這個大院這邊都有要求啦這個可能要回去查幾次這邊可能有一百塊有了嘛第三點其實很重要你寫了一百次以上的報告"},{"start":5490.697,"end":5510.728,"text":"你主要的改善項目是哪些?有哪些是重複的?看旁邊有哪些是有改善的?有具體成效其實你只要從裡面去你以前提出來的計畫真的有改善有績效你就不瞭解啊你怎麼從敗家子變成金雞母變敗家子又上不來對不對好所以今天我明確的要求請台電請台電"},{"start":5516.598,"end":5541.136,"text":"提出一個全面性具體的改革計畫書,其實沒困難的,我剛才說那幾點啦你從106年到現在,最重要的一百次,去把以前真正你覺得你要做沒有做的,或者是你做的有績效的,把它整理出來,好不好?你當初世界金融風暴的時候,那時候美國聯準會說過一句話,他說像花旗銀行一樣,大大不能倒的公司,台電也是一樣,大大不能倒的"},{"start":5542.691,"end":5559.423,"text":"我們會給你 我們可以救你一次可是不能夠給你再犯的機會我們人民跟立法院已經給台電多少次的機會了至少撥補三次了嘛 三千億了啦你現在還要拿一千億不算啦 不算啦台灣民眾黨做了決定不會有這一千億了好 更重要的"},{"start":5560.242,"end":5587.912,"text":"所以不只要提出一個通盤檢討我們在談進一步談怎麼避免虧損再次出現現在發電輸電配電跟售電的這個四大部門請每個部門四大部門都把它列出來第一個當前的虧損情況是怎麼樣子那你要去追第二個虧損的原因第三個你未來疫情虧損會在什麼地方第四個基於整個能源開始在轉型你有開始做一些重大建設嘛你的影響是什麼這四個另外"},{"start":5588.872,"end":5608.841,"text":"在這個四大部分裡面要分別針對目前的虧損年齡跟未來可能虧損要擬定一個對策出來拿一個具體改善的這個里程碑包括什麼台電你本身的本身還有供給面需求面跟市場面四個面向要做一個檢討另外最好相關的報告跟做法請三個月內好不好好"},{"start":5610.44,"end":5610.961,"text":"送到立法院來"},{"start":5640.56,"end":5663.908,"text":"從一個金雞母不英帥的模範生被每年都要去撥補要漲價人已經是民念非常深的希望你最後還有機會人在公民老休閒多幫他們台電的員工們我知道台電那邊都是辛苦的水準也是高的好不好我們會給你掌聲跟支持可是我剛剛講的我剛剛提的都是非常具體的好不好好 謝謝我們這兩部分包括不要再虧損還有整個計畫"},{"start":5666.369,"end":5677.072,"text":"三個月內要給我 好不好那這位農業 希望又回到以後的模範生是經濟模不要再一直只有撥寶跟浪費這個一直在漲電價謝謝 謝謝 感謝模範生可以講三分鐘模範中的模範好 謝謝下位質詢請振振請回"},{"start":5698.113,"end":5700.101,"text":"謝主席我想請向我們經濟部常務市長連錦章連市長"},{"start":5710.268,"end":5729.53,"text":"次長我特別珍惜跟你在經濟委員會 詢問對話的一個機會那我想說 因為我們今天是針對那個產創條例的一個修正案所以我這邊大概有三個點針對這次我們產創條例要修正的三個點我特別把它給列出來 一個是十之一條的部分"},{"start":5729.93,"end":5746.055,"text":"一個是23-1條一個23-2條的部分那針對10-1條這邊的部分的時候因為我們這一次的運版當中很清楚的把AI智慧產品或服務然後節能檢查的相關的全新硬體軟體技術服務都把它給包含在這裡頭"},{"start":5747.475,"end":5767.472,"text":"那我在想說剛剛其實好多好多委員也都特別提到電的一個問題所以我在這邊的時候事實上我本席在這一次的一個傳統條例修正當中我也提出了我自己的一個版本就是我希望說能夠把創新的發電設備跟儲能設備也納在這一次十之一條當中你覺得這樣可不可行"},{"start":5768.252,"end":5784.988,"text":"因為我們現在母法有把那個節能減淡那剛才講那個儲能跟創新這個都是在執法裡面我們可以來做一些檢討的所以可以在執法當中把它納入嘛對不對因為母法沒辦法寫得涵蓋一點不會沒辦法寫到那麼多所以在執法當中的時候會很明確的把我們那個發電"},{"start":5787.631,"end":5797.823,"text":"創新發電的設備跟那個充電設備都把它納入進去因為我們要考慮到整個技術的一個情況還有整個技術可是在執法當中會把這兩個領域把它納入對不對我們來討論OK那這個部分沒問題因為我在想說"},{"start":5802.449,"end":5828.606,"text":"不管是在產算條例當中或是執法當中的時候把它納入去只要實務上面可運作那本席其實也會支持那在這邊針對這10支一條的部分那麼針對23支一條部分的時候呢我們目前是把現銀3億降到1.5億啦那其實創投工會他們對這部分呢他們覺得說目前整個產業變動非常的迅速創投工會他們直接提出一個狀態希望能夠下修到5000萬"},{"start":5830.807,"end":5849.878,"text":"然後原本我們這邊把30%修到50%他們希望能夠維持原本的30%那針對這兩個數據的部分的時候次長這邊有沒有具體的一個回應因為我們這一次也是經過好幾次的一個討論才從三立調到那因為其實這個東西還是要有一定的"},{"start":5850.518,"end":5858.463,"text":"如果說你說太小的你說去投資應該效益不是那麼高所以說我們還是考慮到一些效益上的一個問題因為門檻你降得太低誰都進來的話我覺得這個東西其實有失我們要把這個資金引到主要產業要去投資的那個目的所以希望說資金引到主要產業當中去所以你們認為如果5000萬的規模當中的時候可能不是你們想要引進去的一個方向"},{"start":5880.618,"end":5903.473,"text":"理解這部分本席這邊也尊重不過我覺得創投工業他們所提出來的一個方向我覺得也是很值得去思考的一個部分那針對23-2條這個部分的時候本席要特別提出一個狀態因為事實上我們在經濟部有訂定一個具創新能力之新創事業認定原則當中的時候提到多次"},{"start":5904.454,"end":5931.662,"text":"就是我們新創產業的時間都是以8年為一個限度可是為什麼我們在這個產創條例當中的時候還是以5年為一個限度可不可以請次長這邊做個回應我們是有參考因為那時候是有提到8年啦那本來是3年2年3年後來5年我們修到5年那這個是參考國科會目前在做新創的一些相關規定那8年的話因為5年差不多一般投資差不多都到成熟期了啦"},{"start":5932.122,"end":5949.273,"text":"那後面三年我們後來就沒有去做調整但是因為我們裡面又增加了一項就是說如果你投資的話我們投資一些我們目前講的國家重要策略性產業的話我們可以把那個低減的額度提高到五百萬等於是相對在那一邊去做了一點調整"},{"start":5950.174,"end":5975.894,"text":"理解 不過因為我在想說既然經濟部本身就有訂定據創新能力的新創事業認定原則很清楚是以八年為標準的時候那麼我們也希望因為如果說我們常常條例也能夠一起符合這八年那個狀態我覺得搞不好會更一致啦好不好那這當然你他提到說行政院這邊有另外一個國發會這邊有一個針對新創產業的一個投資的部分他有另外一個標準"},{"start":5977.489,"end":5995.8,"text":"就是那個創業天使基金創業天使基金那邊它有另外一個標準的一個狀態本席理解這個狀態不過我想說既然經濟部本身就有一個原則的時候我們希望能夠一致 好不好然後另外我這邊也要特別提到一個狀態因為在112年的時候就是2023年的時候我們那時候有針對產創條例有休時之二"},{"start":5998.381,"end":6017.721,"text":"當時大家都覺得這就是所謂的台版晶片法那麼覺得在台版晶片法當中的時候就被認為是租稅獎勵被稱為史上最大所以當時很多主要的公司包括在新竹的聯發科就被認為其實會非常的適用會從這一次當台版晶片法當中得到很大的一個獲益結果"},{"start":6020.143,"end":6033.744,"text":"開始推動之後臺積那個聯發科他們也表示說他們其實並沒有得到任何的一個那個租稅的一個優惠那其中一個狀態因為我們產創條例基本上都是在"},{"start":6034.764,"end":6051.624,"text":"支持給那個硬體投資的一個優惠或者是一個軟體設備的一個優惠對於整個人力的一個投資的部分其實沒有特別的優惠那對於聯發科這樣子的一個IC晶片公司來講一個全球級的IC晶片公司來講的時候他們很多的"},{"start":6052.745,"end":6067.001,"text":"投入都是在能力的一個部分所以針對這個部分的時候我們是不是在整個產發條例當中會有所調整未來對整個產發條例當中的一個投資的方向不僅限於硬體或者是資訊軟體的領域"},{"start":6068.991,"end":6086.183,"text":"當然這個可以檢討但是因為現在有關人賠這部分就列為費用再處理那另外一個就是政府也有一些相對的補助措施都已經是一半所以這樣的話如果是在重複在租稅優惠這邊是有點像重複去做一些補助"},{"start":6087.063,"end":6106.325,"text":"不過因為事實上我們看到美國他們商務部他們跟整個國家科學基金會NSF他們在合作整個半導體人力的一個投入的一個部分那美國商務部就像我們經濟部這邊的一個角色一樣所以我們想經濟部在這個部分也能夠大力的去支持在人才培訓這部分我們有大力在支持"},{"start":6106.806,"end":6128.715,"text":"那我最後提一個狀態因為現在全球都在爭取國際的一個勞動力那我們看到107年的時候我們有一個企業及法人申請外國籍學生來中華民國實習要點當中只給六個月那這實習六個月來說對於整個的成效基本上來說是不太夠的我們有沒有可能把它延展到一年"},{"start":6130.681,"end":6152.216,"text":"這個因為我們可能還要再來跟相關單位因為現在全球都在爭取國際勞動力那韓國跟日本他們也都在不斷的調整而且提高很多的一個很高的一個薪水所以我覺得台灣如果要滿足足夠的勞動力在這個部分可能也必須要一起進行修正好不好我們再來跟勞動部協調一下OK 好 謝謝謝謝 請回座"},{"start":6156.161,"end":6173.554,"text":"這個我們在楊瓊英委員質詢完之後 我們會休息下位質詢請李玉玲委員謝謝主席 請連次長請經濟部的連次長"},{"start":6182.239,"end":6198.455,"text":"市長您辛苦了也即將要退休在這邊先恭喜你至少現在可以過個好年今天我們經濟部特別排審了這個產創條例做個修正那我們看到我們現在的產創條例是時間這個優惠這個稅金這個部分的話我們是2024年的12月嘛到2020年12月現在要"},{"start":6206.443,"end":6229.869,"text":"要延長到2029年 延長了5年的時間那當然我們要和其他增加一些項目包括人工智慧跟節能減碳部分但是這個上限的話 我們是從10億提高到18億的這個金額那對於我們整個投資 國外的投資的話這管理機制就是要加強了整個配套都要加強了那所以我們直接進入主題 我們的產創條例的"},{"start":6231.789,"end":6257.134,"text":"這個整個修正本席看了行政院的版本之後的話在22條之一啊特別看到我們投資的特定國家地區還有特定的產業這技術還有一定的投資金額這個部分完全沒有明確規範出來在我們的母法裡面並沒有看到那這樣子的話產業如果去依循你們的規定那如果是不小心觸犯了這個界限的話那又被重罰"},{"start":6257.714,"end":6261.521,"text":"那這部分我們有沒有廣大的這個擴充這個整個意見的話來做一個統整的執法出來"},{"start":6264.782,"end":6291.168,"text":"跟委員報告我們在修正草案的22條第5項我們把特定地區還有特定的產業技術還有一定的金額我們都授權在執法裡面來明定執法定了嗎執法依照規定行政院現在規定是要在母法修正以後六個月之內所以說六個月我們一定要完成所以你趕快要跟哪個國家可以去投資哪個區域不能去或者是金額的上限甚至最重要的技術問題關鍵技術還是要流到台灣"},{"start":6294.489,"end":6306.6,"text":"這個很重要的我們也會再跟外界好好再溝通一下是 所以這個都要整個配套說到大家的意見都有共識之後把執法整個細則執行細則規範通通都要出來要趕快出來要不然的話我們產業界沒有依循的一個方向的話很容易讓你們經濟部羅織了產業的罪名"},{"start":6315.128,"end":6342.138,"text":"那這個就不好了那另外還在22條之四的部分的話產商條例裡面有講到在如果說會影響國家的安全或者是我們的經濟有影響到的話我國經濟影響到的話這個重大清潔的話你就要求產業要撤資回來那請問什麼是重大清潔你們重大清潔是什麼情形完全沒有定義沒有出來啊"},{"start":6343.171,"end":6350.035,"text":"跟文包 如果說廠商對外投資有影響到國安或者是說對經濟有不利影響怎麼樣才影響到國安這個就要配套因應出來啊還是今天修正過來六個月再提出來六個月時間是非常長"},{"start":6361.002,"end":6375.439,"text":"那所有產業要到國外去投資他一定會殺盤推演市場評估通通會出來那你這樣子講的話重大情節就是你們可以任意的羅織罪名了不會"},{"start":6376.039,"end":6399.619,"text":"那個測試一定是最後的手段啦我們一定是會再符合比例原則跟最後手段性的這一方面可不可以定義出來 更明顯然後其他國家其實也都有相同的規定譬如說像美國他們最近的那個1月2號施行的譬如他的重大清潔是什麼重大清潔他們也有相關的測試的規定啦對 有測試的規定我知道可是重大清潔的規範在哪裡那明顯一點 那個產業不是要走越線的地方嗎我們條文裡面喔"},{"start":6403.582,"end":6420.793,"text":"要核准的 所以有一些要審查的標準 譬如說影響整個國家安全或國家經濟發展有不利或是說像跟一些國際的一些條約相關的這些都知道 我覺得還是要更加明確要更加的明確啦 好不好那我們到時候我們會很明確那產業要依循的去規範 好不好"},{"start":6425.195,"end":6451.158,"text":"那接下來我想請教的就是說川普在1月20號他就要上任了他的主張是要增加關稅的部分我相信經濟部應該是嚴正以待也就應該有配套的措施看怎麼樣協助產業那尤其是我們國家是出口導向的而且我們的出口值年年增加到現在的1113億的這個美元所以如果說川普關稅要提高到10%到20%的話"},{"start":6453.319,"end":6473.674,"text":"這個會影響整個產業但是我們看到我們經濟部的講法是說你會協助他們可以如果說以在美國的產業的話為出口的話那你們會協助他到國外去投資那我們的企業產業不是完全出走了嗎我們的關鍵技術能夠跟流台灣嗎這都非常重要的"},{"start":6474.514,"end":6496.742,"text":"所以林市長這方面的話你們有沒有因應的措施跟我們報告有分兩個面向來講第一個就是我們出口過去大部分是中間原材料中間原料其實對美國在發展是有利的這一塊我們也會再來跟美國再協調第二個就剛才講的是說會把在美墨邊境的這些因為他們當時是因為這些品牌商要求在美墨邊境去增加"},{"start":6497.222,"end":6525.864,"text":"投资像ICT产业自动性产业跟这些电动车产业那这些东西它怎么从墨西哥这边再往美国的边境这边来可是我们以美国出口的话大概都是机械用具跟电机的设备尤其是半导体为主那如果就是产业大量外移的话那人才也会跟着外流你就看台积电好了多少人才工程师出去所以我们国国的半导体这个产业这个优势我担心的是恐怕会被美国来掏空啊"},{"start":6526.609,"end":6554.145,"text":"這個我們會嚴密的去監控你怎麼嚴密監控呢所以現在我們看到很多重要產業不只是半導體方面所以我們希望我們整個產業的人才問題還有我們所制定的規範問題這個投資的方向各項我們都要嚴正以待而且一定要有共識做一個明確的定義好不好才不會讓我們人才外流保護我們的產業讓我們的經濟不受影響好 謝謝"},{"start":6557.182,"end":6558.423,"text":"謝謝主席 我們請經濟部臨時長進入臨時長"},{"start":6583.952,"end":6605.125,"text":"委員長市長好今天談這個產業創新條例那剛剛這個剛好上一位這個呂友也有提到剛好也是我想要就教在這個連市長的我們這次這一個產業創新條例有一個重要的主軸就是提供事業投資智慧機械5G減人減碳這些租稅減免這是一項"},{"start":6606.035,"end":6634.215,"text":"另外一項呢我也認為說我們這個修法也具備了國安還有社會安全的意識就是在這一個22條那我看一下你們的22條裡面你們有提到說為保護關鍵的技術還有維持這個產業競爭力所以呢你們有做一個修正從事國外投資於特定國家或地區特定產業或技術或達一定金額以上情形者應事前向中央主管機關申請核准"},{"start":6634.835,"end":6652.196,"text":"那有這一個沒有申請核准實行投資者會處罰借其為改正停止或借其為改正或停止或撤回投資都有啦那一樣請教一下因為我認為說這一點寫的明確是非常重要的"},{"start":6652.717,"end":6673.97,"text":"因為我們既然有這個產業創新條例我們鼓勵企業來投資但是有一些具有這個關鍵性的一些產業或是技術你就沒辦法讓它流到特定的國家或地區尤其是對台灣有敵對有敵意的國家或地區嘛那這一點能不能請次長再說清楚一點"},{"start":6675.134,"end":6703.382,"text":"就是這個投資於特定的國家或地區是指怎樣的國家或地區比如說是指中國嗎還是指哪裡因為我們現在我們現在是其實我們現在主要是在恢弘供應鏈的方式去著手啦那尤其是有一些我們的先進的技術我們絕對不能留到跟我們有一些相關的一些一些對我們不友善的國家而且這些先進的技術我們剛才講也要跟國際的一些規範要去做接軌"},{"start":6704.182,"end":6727.906,"text":"對啊 就是現在美國尤其川普總統他已對於一些關鍵的技術 高階的晶片就是沒有人留下美國去嘛那我說請教一下這些特定的國家跟地區有沒有包含中國因為兩岸條例有在做一些規範所以我們這個會另外在跟兩岸條例那邊去做一些切割那你們這22條的規範是怎麼樣"},{"start":6732.749,"end":6760.964,"text":"各位報告特定地區我們目前最主要考量是有關於在戰略性高科技貨品管制出口的一些地區包括伊朗 伊拉克等等還有有關於聯合國對於特定國家制裁的一些管制令譬如說像北韓這些國好 那中國呢關於對中國附大陸投資的部分我們依照兩岸條例35條我們另外有訂一個附大陸投資的一個許可辦法"},{"start":6762.543,"end":6788.577,"text":"那都有相關的規定那所以這一條跟你剛才講的這一個兩岸投資條例會搭在一起是會搭在一起還是那這個附大陸投資的部分要優先適用搭在一起還是我看你搖頭搭在一起還是怎麼樣不同的規範不同的規範市長講搭在一起的意思是什麼就是說兩邊會一起看嘛如果你要走兩岸的就是兩岸這邊來處理嘛那其他非兩岸的就是這邊再來處理"},{"start":6790.295,"end":6818.437,"text":"那兩岸規範有比你這個更嚴格嗎?有有有 更嚴格更嚴格好 更嚴格好 那請教一下這個現在在審查這個中央政府的總預算那下午也會針對這個追加預算來做協商那有關於這個台電有兩筆一筆是這個今年度的應該算去年度的追加預算1000億另外一個是今年度的這個在總預算裡面的1000億"},{"start":6819.998,"end":6834.347,"text":"那這個1000億這個追加預算朝野協商我認為大概很難過因為現在朝野協商都是過水那現在這個不論是國民黨或是自衛黨都說了這個追加預算不會讓你們過1000億不會讓你們過"},{"start":6836.343,"end":6865.415,"text":"那另外一個呢這個還在今年的這個預算裡面的一千億我剛聽了這個民眾黨的說法他們的提案全數都刪除那等於是說這個看你們這個我看了一下有九個針對台電的這個今年的這個一千億的預算九個提案裡面有五個說要全部都刪除那次長你怎麼看如果這追加預算一千億也沒有了今年度的這一千億也沒有了等於是兩千億都沒有了那台電怎麼辦"},{"start":6866.633,"end":6893.708,"text":"這我們還是希望大家能夠支持這個我跟你講就不可能了我現在可以跟你斷言不可能了朝野前上不會讓你過那現在朝小野大嘛 他們已經講白了 藍白就講白了這一千億今年度也不會讓你過等於是兩千億就沒了你怎麼辦 你要用最壞的方式去想啦你不要再講說我還希望說這個在野黨能夠通過沒有啦 他們兼幣親野就不會讓你過了啦不要存有這種幻想了"},{"start":6894.619,"end":6913.987,"text":"那這我們內部會好好再來思考一下這個還要再思考尤其是那個剛剛那個那個那個委員有提到說那個台電怎麼也要人家早就剛剛思考好了啦因為這個這應該在你們沙盤推演裡面兩千億沒有了會怎麼辦第一個電費會不會調漲嗎第二個要舉債嗎"},{"start":6917.418,"end":6932.067,"text":"這個都是一個方向但是電費調漲因為事關重大再來舉債台電也舉債的差不多了所以這一塊我們如果真的是碰到這個狀況我們會審視的去審密的去思考看後續要怎麼來進行那怎麼辦 台電會不會打"},{"start":6934.104,"end":6948.816,"text":"台電我們不可能讓他倒啦台電不可能讓他倒你們那個財務的這個改善的計畫有出來是不是有有有有出來了那給本席一份那這個改善這個改善報告出來這個你們要怎麼去做改善"},{"start":6950.3,"end":6973.068,"text":"裡面我們有一部分例如是從燃料那一邊也有去做一些調整燃料你們說會降嗎我們是預期說如果是川普上來的話他針對這一塊是不是有降的空間再來就是有一些整個行政效率上去調整還有一些資產的一些重複這一部分再來做沒關係因為主席站起來了這個資料再給我一份好不好好謝謝謝謝主席謝謝李委員蕭偉植議員請楊瓊議員"},{"start":6988.983,"end":6989.624,"text":"謝謝主席 楊瓊發言 邀請次長"},{"start":7000.87,"end":7020.944,"text":"市長好我們針對於今天產業創新條例裡頭因為本席非常非常的關心我們的產業所以因此這個租稅優惠措施是為了要優化我們整個產業結構達到智慧升級轉型並且鼓勵多元性的創新應用"},{"start":7022.665,"end":7050.501,"text":"那原本的智慧優惠條例就在於113年12月31號要屆滿但是我們也考慮到智慧機械的部分我們是可以協助整個產業建立更彈性更高效的一個生產跟服務的優勢所以國內雖然也已經有進步到整個智慧化但是在整個調整結構它必須要較長的時間所以因此"},{"start":7051.201,"end":7065.77,"text":"促進產業投資呢還是有它非常重要的一個必要性所以在這樣情況之下請問次長你是否同意這個創新的這個條例能夠提升我國產業競爭力的關鍵重要"},{"start":7068.172,"end":7078.686,"text":"這個本來就是關鍵重要對那所以請你支持本席的提案也就是第10條之一跟第72條時間延續下來到118年你是不是同意這個是我們的方向"},{"start":7083.092,"end":7107.167,"text":"你們的也是同意所以我們非常高興朝野大家一致我也希望建議主席我們今天在巡打完就趕快加速讓我們的產業可以安心我們能夠今天來出委員會所以因此本校特別提出延長智慧基線跟第五代的行動通訊系統跟資安非常重要跟資安安全產品"},{"start":7107.987,"end":7118.843,"text":"或者是服務投資來抵減租稅的優惠期間來新增人工智慧產品或服務能夠將節能減碳這個項目也能夠來投資抵減的項目"},{"start":7124.63,"end":7137.414,"text":"這個是我們現在在研擬的方向一直要研擬一直要推動所以我們還是有默契我再次強調新增人工智慧產品或服務節能減碳等投資來作為減向的項目對是認同的"},{"start":7140.655,"end":7164.255,"text":"所以我们也希望今天这个寻答完可以直接来处理我们一起加油为我们的产业来加油也请所有的产业在过年的时候能够让他们放心我们一起来支持我们的产业而且让整个产业的智慧优化多元性都能够让他们得到一个安心也就是投资体检的部分呢是最低就是以这个一百万"},{"start":7164.755,"end":7192.543,"text":"以上最高到10億的這個範圍內就個案來做協助我們10億有調到18億了對 所以這個非常重要所以我們一直希望能夠把它提升上來就是100萬一直到18億這個整體性大家來達成一個共識來協助我們的產業好 那接下來本席要請教你水會的問題因為卓院長有說漏水率"},{"start":7193.283,"end":7222.262,"text":"它預計在未來8年要投資807.7億也就是121年我們10年計畫121年漏水率是要降到10%因為本席不斷地在說那我們水這麼寶貴但是你讓它在管子裡面漏掉這個是太可惜了所以我們不斷地在惹勞太管在這樣的情況之下目前所謂的四級制"},{"start":7223.383,"end":7238.544,"text":"但是如果依照目前我們得到的方案是計劃要調整 未來是會調整到7級值那增加200度 1000度以及4000度的級距因為目前為止是10度以下的是7.35"},{"start":7240.339,"end":7258.045,"text":"第二段是11度到30度的是9.45第三段的是31度到50度的這個論舉是11.55第四段是50度以上的是拉到12.07那麼如果說照目前我們得到的訊息是要改制為這個7級"},{"start":7260.126,"end":7266.81,"text":"那麼換句話說漲幅會從25%漲到90%那換句話說平均值從10.7%會拉到15%換句話說漲幅是4成平均值是4成所以請教市長水費真的會漲嗎因為是31年沒漲那院長是說去研究看但是因為這種研究這裡講的都是"},{"start":7286.781,"end":7305.175,"text":"空穴來風空穴來風對對我現在講說漲四成那我們要拜託拜託我們媒體委員我非常感謝你這裡講的說漲四成我先插上你的話我非常感謝你我們的質詢目的就是不要讓民眾憂心我們把事實去還原請說"},{"start":7306.556,"end":7312.958,"text":"你要調整的話你一定要一定是要審慎的去規劃檢討然後再經過審議委員會去討論那這裡外面都講說直接講說要漲到4成這都是外面在預測的不是你的目標還有剛才委員講的說要從幾級怎麼去調"},{"start":7325.202,"end":7337.213,"text":"四級到七級有沒有這回事這個東西都在檢討當中研議中嗎研議中沒有像外界我剛才講空間來說外界直接就把它直接就引到說要漲到多那大家也安心過年了所以本席要請教我們經濟部的態度是什麼會不會漲"},{"start":7343.158,"end":7369.095,"text":"我們省市來研議因為31年沒漲啦我們要來檢討那檢討的時候也要依據當時的整個一個環境情況還有民生物價的一個狀況市長你的確是探求明末因為你要注意現在民眾的日子苦哈哈對對對尤其我們要省慎的去避免因為你的調漲而去影響到物價的高漲這個我們都會考慮到就非常重要你有沒有一個時間點你們研議的時間點多久時間會告訴民眾"},{"start":7373.258,"end":7396.858,"text":"到底那個時間點 請告訴我們民眾我們還是要有所本啊對 請說你的延誼是無限期的延誼還是半年 還是一年他是說水公司要三個月提方案出來三個月提方案當方案提出來不是就可行啊對對對 所以三個月提方案出來我還是再次強調"},{"start":7397.799,"end":7403.884,"text":"你一定要審慎考量不要因為調漲損費引起物價的高漲這一句知識體大我要謝謝你最後一個議題我功課給你再一分鐘給我就好我功課給你 謝謝"},{"start":7417.054,"end":7438.678,"text":"我們媒體報導 經濟部所屬的這個事業機構裡頭 台電 台水 台油 這個台廠中有13號舉辦的全國有兩萬一千人報考 但是第一節的考試只有達到一萬一千兩百三十八人那換句話 錄取率從3.81提升到7.35 因為一半的人幾乎他沒有來考"},{"start":7439.198,"end":7465.181,"text":"那創下了有史以來近三年的新低在這樣的情況之下我們五年來報考的人數越來越少國藝事業單位缺工那我本期非常的希望你們要去檢討你要檢討怎麼樣能夠確保人才的永續有沒有要檢討我們現在也把新進人員的薪資要再往上再提升你把你們確保人才的方案"},{"start":7466.547,"end":7479.276,"text":"眼裡的方案給本行一定要確保人才是不是好謝謝謝謝楊偉來請回座現在休息五分鐘必要時延長兩分鐘"},{"start":7493.646,"end":7498.39,"text":"這間餐廳的餐廳有很多不同的食物"},{"start":7515.972,"end":7518.334,"text":"這家也賣給人家吃只有鮮麵吃"},{"start":7540.512,"end":7546.956,"text":"太热了太热了太热了"},{"start":7573.606,"end":7583.049,"text":"中文字幕志愿者 李宗盛"},{"start":7626.243,"end":7627.464,"text":"我知道"},{"start":7629.362,"end":7630.903,"text":"這裏有個大廈,這裏有個大廈,這裏有個大廈,這裏有個大廈,"},{"start":7659.471,"end":7661.432,"text":"這裏是一間餐廳。這裏是一間餐廳。"},{"start":7689.409,"end":7692.171,"text":"這張照片是在2012年 當時在新加坡拍攝的"},{"start":7711.846,"end":7725.078,"text":"中文字幕志愿者 李卓人"},{"start":7736.287,"end":7744.034,"text":"這裏有個大廈,這裏有個大廈,這裏有個大廈,"},{"start":7759.958,"end":7760.259,"text":"嗯嗯嗯"},{"start":7775.57,"end":7777.251,"text":"這裏是大廈的廟宇"},{"start":7793.847,"end":7809.737,"text":"這裏有個大廈,這裏有個大廈,這裏有個大廈,"},{"start":7818.243,"end":7818.263,"text":"嗯。"},{"start":7844.62,"end":7845.54,"text":"這裏是一間大廈"},{"start":7864.873,"end":7887.033,"text":"中文字幕志愿者 杨茜茜"},{"start":7907.515,"end":7908.396,"text":"這裏有個大廈。這裏有個大廈。這裏有個大廈"},{"start":7942.128,"end":7943.289,"text":"首先有請我們經濟部連署長"},{"start":7967.877,"end":7969.358,"text":"今天我們是討論產創條例的修正及延長"},{"start":7987.318,"end":8015.113,"text":"那根據經濟部的報告說交市產業雙軸的轉型再來就是增加新創募租的機會第三項避免關鍵技術的外領由原先來的投資體檢項目裡面有智慧機械5G支通的安全現在又新增了AI產品及它的服務範圍"},{"start":8016.653,"end":8040.638,"text":"還有節能減碳那這裡面對於家事產業雙軸的轉型還有增加新創募資的機會在原則上本席是非常支持及讚賞但是避免關鍵機制的外流這一點工業總會裡面對這一點也都抱持著一個懷疑那次長你從產業"},{"start":8043.26,"end":8067.892,"text":"工业及产业发展史这一路经过来你应该都很了解台湾的产业那这里面你们谈到为了保护关键的基石及维持产业的竞争力第22条修正的重点聚焦对外投资的管理范围对外投资的管理会除了投资达一定的格度"},{"start":8069.268,"end":8097.85,"text":"應市區申請核准外也針對的投資於特定國家或地區特定國家或地區及特定產業或技術等情形需市區申請如果將主管機關認定影響國家安全影響國家經濟的發展得令其"},{"start":8098.823,"end":8107.27,"text":"撤回投資,這嚴重啊我不知道我們現在何必打我們台灣像川普一樣的我們可以發布國家經濟緊實狀況"},{"start":8110.905,"end":8140.339,"text":"美國是大國是大國家他們掌握世界上他們軟體技術很好什麼東西都一直在限制我們台灣是小企業除了台積電現在人化科自己打拼出來可以跟高通相比了幾個企業有這樣的實力自己研發出來我現在不知道他們請我來問什麼叫做特定國家什麼叫做特定區域"},{"start":8141.195,"end":8143.045,"text":"你们一直为了追讯跟我们讲这些"},{"start":8144.398,"end":8171.648,"text":"什麼是特定產業或基礎其實我自己發明的如果照你們這樣萬一我曉得這個在講地緣政治臺灣是秀的地方大家要去探局還有一定的情況我希望你這個要定義的很清楚什麼樣產業才會影響國家的安全經濟你這就要跟我們講清楚不然很多工商也真的人心惶惶要倒數也不敢去倒數"},{"start":8174.139,"end":8201.4,"text":"世界的生意那麼大我講真的話歐美都有偏見覺得他們機師都比台灣好台灣的價格又賣不高去到那邊他就又賣不高歐美的機師價格非常高那台灣是靠這樣到特定地區去打拚去賺錢我相信很了解這個流程但是這幾個定義你能不能解釋清楚好"},{"start":8201.92,"end":8208.12,"text":"各位報告這個相關的我們會在執法裡面授權執法來定那所謂的特定國家地區其實"},{"start":8209.312,"end":8231.066,"text":"因為這個戰略性高科技講明白就是中國大陸嘛中國大陸是兩岸條理阿美國跟你要你敢不給他台積電那麼大的公司乖乖就要去報導了我們不要講得那麼好聽阿現實的狀況阿特定77在那個戰略性高科技豁免管制的這樣的公司這個有特定阿什麼叫特定的產業那因為這個有國際規範什麼叫特定"},{"start":8235.189,"end":8248.578,"text":"順眾為之你們設這個願意應該要再送出來給立法院再討論跟工商業再來討論一下好不好我們在訂定這個執法的時候會跟這些工商業者"},{"start":8249.378,"end":8272.633,"text":"我也是密集的來討論這個東西在定議前會送到經濟委員會讓我們看一下我希望真的要尊重台灣人很可憐耶是很怕病耶是人物名字耶要貪那些情緒苦苦辛辛的在那裡停滯啊好不好好再來我請市委部啦那個誰啊市委部還有國安會啦國安會高副主委"},{"start":8282.575,"end":8303.889,"text":"我相信你們增加的產品新增加的就是智慧AI產品及服務還有一個節能減碳我今天為什麼把三個叫起來你看我們經濟部裡面有技術處有工研院"},{"start":8304.949,"end":8324.098,"text":"有我們的產業發展史現在就是世衛產業史我怎麼會突然把它調到世衛部去其實這個世衛的產業跟我們所有的產業是息息相關的"},{"start":8325.757,"end":8342.315,"text":"所以我今天為什麼請國安部的高副指揮你也在國安部很久我是一個大膽的建議啊不然這樣摸不著頭緒摸不著頭緒,要找到一個黨委副國安部會迷迷糊糊啦我是講真的啦你會變成多頭馬車"},{"start":8344.585,"end":8372.901,"text":"所以我今天大膽建議你國防部真的要有作為把世衛部的世衛產業史掛到經濟部裡面再成立一個史這樣產業發展史、世衛發展史計時次工研院剛好結為一體大破大立不要因循傳統世衛部你不要抵制你世衛產業史裡面在這邊才能給你真正的發揮"},{"start":8374.682,"end":8391.657,"text":"當然未來的AI產業它所發展的各種跟文化什麼都會改變了很多這是關鍵性的時刻咱不要因習傳統某些企業就要來等一下要找到思維部等一下要找到思維發展使用技術處我是建議"},{"start":8394.97,"end":8416.369,"text":"回去也轉達一下,國發會也要有大膽作為你們的劉志偉我覺得頭腦很新在國外管理單位顧問公司當過董事長算非常有經驗我是今天看到這樣大家說得很高興很高興你們有統一的領導沒有這樣一個系統的治理會做不好"},{"start":8417.253,"end":8443.054,"text":"尤其AI智慧的產品硬體的時候以後都會變成鴻海市場你經濟部包括國安委你都要發揮我們AI那個邊緣運算的產業等於是我們的軟體台灣在這個時候要加強軟體才能永久利益不敗之地啦考慮一下對我的看法怎麼樣國慧你講講阿師會不要不要講"},{"start":8444.834,"end":8467.446,"text":"你不好意思講對不對你實在很想過來經濟部這邊才覺得做起來有Power有行動力來國外會主任您看法怎麼樣第一個我想謝謝委員的建議您的建議因為主委回國我一定會跟他轉資不過其實AI的技術其實進展得非常快它適用的範疇跟領域也變動得非常的大"},{"start":8468.246,"end":8489.152,"text":"那當然我們各部會的執掌必須要因應這個新的時代技術的轉變再來做調適那我想委員的意見我們一定會審慎的考慮跟考量那務必要發揮跨部會協調的縱效啦不要因為有時候分工不明確導致有些事情延長所以我對你們這樣的想法"},{"start":8492.953,"end":8507.159,"text":"我覺得統一的話在一個地方聯絡開會方便部門看這位講得很好聽你們的國外會是做這個協調真的要改變啦好啦謝謝啦你們不去改變我們也沒有關係啦"},{"start":8508.479,"end":8529.501,"text":"我跟您說 正是為台灣好 該改變的要改變 我們把它改變好不要讓這些企業 這些人家要研發創新的 都有一個統一的倉庫找的對象比較好找 謝謝好 謝謝委員謝謝陳昌明委員 非常碩士謝謝 請回座 下一位執行人請在這裏"},{"start":8540.802,"end":8544.634,"text":"謝謝主席有請經濟部的連次長以及財政部的理事長"},{"start":8553.51,"end":8576.422,"text":"先問一下財政部的理事長喔因為剛才看了很少人問你喔請你講一下話這個今天審的是儲產條例產創條例了其實最早從開始的獎頭獎勵投資儲產然後一直改一直改一直給他減減減到目前為止"},{"start":8577.662,"end":8597.352,"text":"經濟部所推動的所謂的獎頭也好 出產帖也好 產創也好等等的總共稅損多少 算過沒有我以為要從出產到從獎頭開始沒有這個數字我們現在手邊沒有這個數據手邊現在沒有這個數據因為我們沒有想到好 那我是跟你講 產創經濟部出估大概800億"},{"start":8608.66,"end":8632.031,"text":"這個不要讓你回答了 看下一頁去2023就在前年的時候總共核准了777件減免214億集中在電子業包括台積電、聯發科、聯友、聯電、日光、日月光、旺虹、藍牙科"},{"start":8633.001,"end":8639.643,"text":"就是這給我賺錢的有錢喔 你拼命再給他啦用國家的碼拼命掛給他們這樣這這麼對 這這麼好就是你們經濟部方這樣老是拿我們老百姓的錢來賭賭賭賭來給這些賺大錢的"},{"start":8651.787,"end":8655.53,"text":"這個台積電賺這麼多錢 連電賺這麼多錢還要卡政府的油還要卡了這個700億 就從產窗來講800億裡面幾乎都是給這些那個 理事長啊 你敢說那麼久啊從租稅公平的角度來講這等於是戒貧 戒貧戒貧戒戶啦是 謝謝委員這個產種條例就是戒貧戒戶條例啦"},{"start":8682.4,"end":8699.006,"text":"報告委員基本上因為我們從獎頭時代到現在促產然後經過十年這麼多年的發展到現在產業創新條例其實基本上他的租稅獎勵的工具還有就是獎勵的範圍其實一直有因應我們整個國家經濟發展的需要我先重點不是在問你我是跟你強調你們強調"},{"start":8703.007,"end":8720.923,"text":"今天所有的委員 立委提出來今天主席啊 當然我知道這個是為行政院排的啦主席都排的 你看立委都是排第10條之一增加AI進來啦 增加節能的啦那個沒有人反對了可是真的重點在22條 剛才陳昌明講得非常好啦"},{"start":8722.162,"end":8740.22,"text":"二十二條這是一個一個等於類似晶片法案台灣晶片法案這是到底配合美國的請問連社長是不是那個理事長可以回去了是不是配合美國的進一步的管制我們的投資到中國大陸去技術到中國大陸去是不是"},{"start":8740.8,"end":8755.285,"text":"報告跟委員報告那個投資大陸那有兩岸兩岸那個關係條例在處理那個會比這個更嚴格這個是因應整個國際的情勢就是因應美國的要求嘛這個國際規範國際規劃嘛就沒錯嘛就是美國國際就是美國嘛重點在這裡啊各位整本法案重點在22條這裡啦就是管制啊前面實施的運動給你多讚多讚給你這樣"},{"start":8769.19,"end":8796.658,"text":"其實是一點點啦重點在管制啊管制沒有一個立委提出這個啦你們重點在這個地方啦我跟你補充報告就是說我們在這個執行過程中確實是有碰到有一些案子因為我們現在的法治不是很周全所以有發生了一些案子那這些案子其實是我們現在是15億以上才會去審查那他透過一些漏洞然後真的是對我們我們台灣真的是有一些影響"},{"start":8797.338,"end":8813.231,"text":"譬如說譬如譬如說舉例Landmark Field舉例一個哪一個哪一個哪一個哪一個哪一個哪一個哪一個哪一個哪一個哪一個哪一個哪一個哪一個哪一個哪一個哪一個哪一個哪一個哪一個哪一個哪一個哪一個哪一個哪一個哪一個哪一個哪一個哪一個哪一個哪一個哪一個哪一個哪一個哪一個哪一個哪一個哪一個哪一個哪一個哪一個哪一個哪一個哪一個哪一個哪一個哪一個哪一個哪一個哪一個哪一個哪一個哪一個哪一個哪一個哪一個哪一個哪一個哪一個哪一個哪一個哪一個哪一個哪一個哪一個哪一個哪一個哪一個哪一個哪一個哪一個哪一個哪一個哪一個哪一個哪一個哪一個哪一個哪一個哪一個哪一個哪一個哪一個哪一個哪一個哪一個哪一個哪一個哪一個哪一個哪一個哪一個哪一個哪一個哪一個哪一個哪一個哪一個哪一個哪一個哪一個哪一個哪一個"},{"start":8816.397,"end":8819.019,"text":"這個道道地地就是根據美國的屁股後面走的法案啦22條藏在這裡啦今天這麼厚一本就是22條就是進一步管制我們的對外投資你看喔特定國家指的是中國大陸嘛特定地區就是中國大陸還有哪些地方"},{"start":8836.414,"end":8842.797,"text":"你告訴我還寫哪些地方特定後面還寫什麼這些都是你們中央儲管機關來訂的變成你愛回歸就回歸不愛回歸就不愛回歸這個地方老實講是投資戒嚴啊是這樣子啊那個市長啊"},{"start":8853.735,"end":8868.161,"text":"人之將去啊我沒有說你是 你好好的啦 你健康啦你要離開齊炎也善齊炎也真啦齊炎也美啦齊炎也真 齊炎也善 齊炎也美我希望你講真話啦這個條例你是不是看得以你的專業你專業還是工業界 風電圈都是不要限制的"},{"start":8880.506,"end":8893.612,"text":"違背你內心的 那個內心深處 你的專業 敢不違背要三條A嗎?我們在制定執法的時候 一定會跟業界衝突請問你會不會感覺有這種感覺?違和的感覺?沒有嗎?這在我們目前國際的一個情勢或國家發展國家的發展就配合美國來 我再請問你你年紀輕輕的我怎麼離開啊?委員 包括委員 我60幾歲啊"},{"start":8910.371,"end":8918.018,"text":"還沒到65啊 年紀輕輕的啊 下馬頭一個啊因為身體不合理身體不合理喔 還是長官太兇我一天睡覺沒四點鐘喔長官太兇 長官太兇沒有 他對你不好你們大家都互惠他對你不好是不是沒有 這絕對沒有他還沒有挽留你"},{"start":8932.751,"end":8939.636,"text":"有有挽留喔挽留幾次挽留好幾次好幾次 1 2 3 4 5 6幾次 幾次啦 挽留幾次N次啦N小於3我們本來在說老老在打拚 但是我真的是身體不堪敵啦我身體不堪敵 我沒有 我沒有怕會替我受苦啊所以我還是要 雖然要為國家打拚 但是要照顧大廳"},{"start":8957.829,"end":8967.791,"text":"你接多久 請問你接多久我接了 如果到20到8個月啦8個月啊 你接這個是假的啦這根本就是過個水就很清楚的主席啊剛才主席讓其他委員都講個多一兩分鐘啦這個今天主席比較仁慈啦今天我看到這個我們智慧主席很仁慈讓我多講一分鐘我知道啦"},{"start":8984.395,"end":8998.498,"text":"但是如果你真的這麼想退你不會說八個月就走掉 其中必有鬼啦沒有沒有沒有 完全沒有啊 這個東西 齋齋的啦對不對 大家都在行啊來的啦 這一看就知道委員 我不可以做到倒下去 你們再來臨前燒香再來跟我說 老闆知道就給你退休就好了 不可以這樣啊不然你身體好的人啊 我就要等他 不然倒我先退這樣"},{"start":9009.48,"end":9013.264,"text":"這樣比較對這樣比較適合我好了這個八個月這麼短的時間來最後一點你的專業川普總統說馬薩基總統他說風變是垃圾你怎麼講"},{"start":9024.995,"end":9043.105,"text":"你同意不同意 你是封閉專家喔 你是封閉專家喔你講話很有那個 國資會講的叫做亂共 他根本就不懂他說啊 這個川普只做事你意向很大他是垃圾專家我只能說再生能源現在是國際的趨勢 他講封閉是垃圾你怎麼會"},{"start":9045.779,"end":9067.26,"text":"那是他個人的見解啦你尊重你不敢批評他你看到最後一點我明確的跟你講台電一千億的增值我已經寫提案砍掉全砍好不好這個是沒有意義的你們部長已經講他可以借錢就去借嘛好不好順從你們部長回去跟他講我意志非常堅定一千億一定要砍否決不要決"},{"start":9071.532,"end":9098.202,"text":"好 謝謝賴時保委員 也請經濟部財政部兩位次長回座現在有請邱志維委員好 謝謝主席 也請林次長跟國會高副主委"},{"start":9098.729,"end":9100.931,"text":"好 請林市長 高副主委這個保險 保險業有很多的資金他沒有受到相關的規定 沒有辦法有效再投入新創產業甚至在國內相關的投資表率比較少 大部分都是國外國外也有很多匯兌損失"},{"start":9123.283,"end":9136.102,"text":"所以怎麼樣能夠充分運用這個保險的這些資金啊特別導入這個新創事業這部分這個國發會或者是經濟部有沒有具體看法"},{"start":9138.063,"end":9155.836,"text":"報告委員其實我們保險業要投入到新創大概是從VC或PE那VC這一塊其實我們國發基金我們其實有匡列給不同的部會其實今年增加了兩個百億基金一個是AI"},{"start":9156.716,"end":9158.579,"text":"一個是特定產業嘛對特定產業那還有一般性的產業就是我們長期已經匡列給中小企業處還有一些製造業策略性製造業跟策略性服務業這已經有基本上有蠻多年了"},{"start":9173.617,"end":9197.627,"text":"意思就是我們還有綠色成長基金這也是綠色的新創我問你是說以目前的金額來看我們有30兆的保險資金但是只有351投資國內創投跟國外的水準是差很遠你怎麼用制度性用政策把這些保險業的資金能夠提高能夠到1000億投資到昨天創投市場"},{"start":9199.568,"end":9220.445,"text":"是 所以我們其實因為我們因為基本上我們還是要借重VC或PE嘛那VC這一塊我們除了鼓勵保險業因為保險業有很多他自己是有做VC的我認為他會保守啦對就因為你真的太保守你沒有辦法去開放如果開放他只能去投資國外的這個這些債券所以我們這次產創條例裡面有增加對於這個這個這個"},{"start":9225.089,"end":9240.334,"text":"那個VC這一塊我是針對保險業資金所以這部分很可惜因為資金那麼多就沒辦法好好地使用我想委員有提醒我們到時候再來跟經管會看看就是有什麼的獎勵的措施第二個問題請教就是說"},{"start":9243.815,"end":9267.695,"text":"我們這個對新創的這個定義啊那國安會是你用創業天使投資方案是未滿五年齁那如果按照經濟部中計署這個新創事業認定是未滿八年那最後的版本院版是用國安會的版本那請教次長你用五年還是八年比較好你看八年是最多的加數啊"},{"start":9268.739,"end":9274.979,"text":"5到8年新創的家屬是最多將近快2600家是所有新創族群裡面最大的比例"},{"start":9276.116,"end":9303.806,"text":"所以五年對他們而言沒有實際的幫助跟委員報告因為我們這是要做投資鼓勵他去做投資新創所以我們是從投資面去看所以我們那時候才會引用那個國發會的五年你自己做技術也有新創事業認定對啊那後面就是新創因為他後面八年一般來講是比較趨於穩定成熟那我們是鼓勵他再投在比較前面所以八年能不能接受"},{"start":9306.11,"end":9330.547,"text":"你用日本的英國的經驗來看只有日本是未滿五年還有未滿十年它有不同的新創標準所以我折衷八年我覺得是可行可以去思考的業界也這樣期待這個部分我希望如果下午要審查這個法案的時候我們希望能夠用這個版本折衷版本我想國會應該也可以同意吧"},{"start":9331.485,"end":9358.311,"text":"那個高副主委因為基本上VC的出廠就會到8年就會出廠所以就變成說5到8年就是就像市長說的說的是比較成熟期的那我們這個立法的本領應該是鼓勵你那時候制定是兩年對不對那個新創產業的環境有很大的變化你的存活率是很低的你那個必須對他們支持的年限要增加"},{"start":9359.051,"end":9369.606,"text":"所以這次已經調整到五年啦就是可能不立法的本地啦不過兩三年之後我要修法要變成八年所以一步到位我覺得比較好第三點來下一頁這個"},{"start":9374.81,"end":9402.808,"text":"投資門檻 投資門檻的部分我當然我的修正版本是個人銀行是維持50萬那如果是創投的就是法人的股東的話可以到300萬這部分這個高副主委或者是林市長您的看法怎麼樣這個我們會請那個因為這個我們內部我們跟財政部有在去討論如果是法人的話其實我們現在有很多那是要理事長來回答是吧是要理事長"},{"start":9403.871,"end":9428.577,"text":"如果增加一個法人到300萬這個可以嗎?報告委員因為法人現在其實他們已經很多優惠了那還有這個投資的所得不用記錄所得課稅然後他如果處分的話還有證券交易所得免稅那因為我們又另外我們現在營利世界所得稅的稅率其實是大概只有20%而且實質有效稅率只有14%所以你們還是覺得所以我們是覺得法人部分"},{"start":9429.637,"end":9447.529,"text":"對 法院部門似乎不需要再額外給他這個多餘的獎勵因為他事實上已經足夠了另外這個抵檢的上限個人的話如果到800萬對稅會不會有什麼影響因為我們現在已經這次我們修正也把那個300萬提高到500萬了"},{"start":9448.59,"end":9463.608,"text":"那其實也是有呼應窗頭的500萬是重點產業不是說有但是因為畢竟因為大家委員也知道因為真正如果把金額提高真正適用享受到這個租稅優惠的就是所得非常高的人"},{"start":9464.264,"end":9485.332,"text":"那他的所得因為我們一般所得稅率最高是10%如果你現在提高對 就對他來講節稅的效益太大對稅會不會有影響會啊 會有影響啊因為租稅馬上個人的所得稅負馬上就降低而且降低的幅度是相對比較大的沒關係 其他的問題我們下午在主角審查的時候我們再來討論好 謝謝委員好 謝謝邱志偉委員也請一個次長回座"},{"start":9508.859,"end":9520.325,"text":"好 下位之言請吳麗華委員謝謝主席 有請經濟部次長經濟部連次長"},{"start":9529.7,"end":9537.875,"text":"市長好市長我在簡報上有一張照片那這個是在印尼的蘇拉威西省"},{"start":9538.871,"end":9559.75,"text":"那他們正在進行開採的是做電動車電池很重要的鎳礦那這個照片當中有一個背影是當地的原住民那我看了這張照片其實我很有感也很感慨為什麼呢因為這就是全世界原住民的一個縮影"},{"start":9561.411,"end":9586.343,"text":"那在這個開採案裡面也有很多的台灣企業投入那我們總是覺得說看到這樣的場景就是會想到國家的法律呢其實限制了或者不承認原住民他們既有的這種謀生方式開墾方式有很多的法令處處限制可是呢我們卻看到國家把森林收為國有而且允許企業進來開採"},{"start":9590.706,"end":9606.545,"text":"我想這樣的一個情景其實是全世界原住民的一個縮影那變成是原住民呢在自己的土地就是當工人而沒有辦法在自己的土地去經營這塊土地那是非常令人感到非常遺憾的"},{"start":9607.606,"end":9611.088,"text":"那為什麼我這樣談因為今天委員會是排了產業創新條例那我自己也做了第22條的一個修正動議那我基本上我想我們肯定在這一次的條例當中可能是基於我們有一些企業那樣是之前新聞很大的就是台塑"},{"start":9631.838,"end":9650.111,"text":"他們的鋼鐵在越南造成一些污染那我們就發現到說國內國外都無法可制裁而且嚴重的破壞我們的國際形象所以在這樣的一個條例當中我也很肯定但是我希望能夠具體化"},{"start":9652.353,"end":9670.057,"text":"要件更具體化哪一些要件就是我增加了原住民的權利環境的污染智慧財產權等等希望能夠在事前事後能夠做一個很重要具體的審查要件不曉得次長您覺得如何我原來這個"},{"start":9672.594,"end":9690.85,"text":"提議是利益非常良好但是因為我們這個是對外去投資的那對外投資其實我們首先要顧的是跟國際的相關規定有沒有去違反那另外關於有一些制裁或是當地原住民的這些文化其實應該是他要回到當地的相關法令這邊來規劃因為就是屬於屬地主義"},{"start":9693.132,"end":9722.352,"text":"所以這一部分如果是列在我們這個我們國內的這個法令其實相對是市長我想這個事前事後審查是不是在經濟部的手上對對但是那我們也剛剛講了其實我們是因為我們發覺到不要到國外國內都無法制裁而且是嚴重影響我們的國際形象所以在事前事後的審查照理說我們的政府應該要去做這樣的一個審核把關"},{"start":9724.313,"end":9747.124,"text":"因為這個確實這一部分如果說要列到目前這樣規定其實是在審查上是其實是有點是比較你的意思說行為還沒有發生無法審查對因為他要到當地去有產生一些行為之後他才會發生所以是屬於屬地主義如果他違反了當地的相關的規定他就應該要受到當地的那至少我們是不是也可以在我們可以在"},{"start":9748.625,"end":9748.826,"text":"我們回過頭來看我們國內"},{"start":9761.569,"end":9784.648,"text":"現在大家都在做地熱的開發那根據我們經濟部地礦中心這是公開的資料我們可以看到在原住民族地區的大概地熱開發佔了67%也就是說很多的地熱開發區呢都在原住民的地區那我在這邊就是要特別想要請教一下因為"},{"start":9785.649,"end":9801.152,"text":"我過去在礦業法修法的時候我跟洪森漢委員我們在努力之下也成功的把這個諮商同意的指引也納進去了您應該很清楚那現在我要講的是地熱那你看一下這張圖這個是在花蓮萬榮鄉的紅葉看起來就是在抗議但是我想說有時候並不是部落不願意"},{"start":9815.29,"end":9828.123,"text":"做開發 而是有一些問題 像這個他們是因為他在私有地上開發結果呢 說不需要進行諮商同意引起話軟"},{"start":9829.611,"end":9847.708,"text":"次長你將心比心今天來到你的家你的部落要進行這樣的開發但是他說因為是私有地不需要跟你們部落的人來談我覺得這是相當不尊重的行為也不會受歡迎啦你再來看這個是台東金峰鄉的金輪"},{"start":9848.709,"end":9871.481,"text":"你看一個小小的地方 1 2 3 4 4個地熱開發廠有的專炭中 有的開發中 有的已經發電次長重點是也不用進行諮商同意 因為全部都是在私有地也就是說現在廠商很聰明 我們就專門找私有地那我相信"},{"start":9872.501,"end":9896.373,"text":"很多的是慢慢做比較快啦像這樣子強行進入其實也造成地方很重大的一個反彈那現在第二個問題是也有問題你看看這個是你們能源署2024年12月31公告出來的你看你們也在亂你們竟然把取得原住民諮商同意放在探勘之後"},{"start":9897.713,"end":9916.806,"text":"鑽探之後那鑽探期間的噪音 廢水甚至很多是公墓的底下難道不需要跟部落的人來去取得他們的同意跟他們來做說明嗎又或者像是這個前置的行政作業要相公所認定"},{"start":9917.466,"end":9946.118,"text":"那就很奇怪啦因為這個是要部落同意的為什麼要經由鄉公所那經由鄉公所你看像原基法這個部落諮商同意辦法當然他也開了一個後門明明礦產或土石之鑽探是需要進行諮商同意辦法可是他在另外的地方又說這個主管機關可以認定如果無侵害之餘或促進原住民土地利用可是鄉公所他如果援引他說"},{"start":9946.798,"end":9958.621,"text":"促進原住民土地利用所以呢可以那怎麼辦呢他就會含釋排除諮商同意所以我現在只是想要問經濟部的態度您認為整個地熱探勘從他一開始的探勘專探階段需不需要經過部落的諮商同意市長你認為 這個我們正在研議我們跟文明會在做討論看要怎麼去把這樣的一個"},{"start":9971.784,"end":9992.11,"text":"探勘然後以後要設置那個開發要怎麼跟當地的部落還有當地的居民達到一個很和諧的共識這我目前正在研議我們會來檢討我上次參加第一熱的論壇我也有你們的能源署副署長有參加我也有表達那因為時間的關係主席再給我一分鐘我直接講結論那我希望是"},{"start":9995.811,"end":10018.397,"text":"這個淨零碳排 2050的目標全世界都在走我們對再生能源的需求我們都知道那其實部落也不是不願意來去做這樣的一個能源開發只是需要尊重那像這些歐盟都會開始做一些許可指南加速這個許可流程 簡化這些框架那我是希望說要去做一個行政指引"},{"start":10018.837,"end":10025.886,"text":"如同我們上次的礦業法一樣好不好讓他更清楚然後我也希望成立地熱專區的示範點以這個金輪你看現在有四個案場如果能夠做一個地熱專區的示範點我相信未來要做地熱開發的都可以來到這個地方來去參觀"},{"start":10036.058,"end":10046.845,"text":"那因為我其他的部分的時間的關係我沒有辦法談那我也可能也會在3月份希望呢應大家的要求我會來辦一個地熱的公聽會那我希望很多的問題到時候呢我們一起來討論一起來促成政府的一個政策的目標能夠達成好不好"},{"start":10055.75,"end":10078.56,"text":"那我也希望原住民能夠成為我們的一個土地的主人能夠成為資源的共享那正是包括今天的財政部國發會也都有來我也希望一併的來提醒因為我也有盤點像金管會的經費或者是財政部的兆元國家的一個方案我都希望是說到時候我們一直要求的那個礦"},{"start":10079.94,"end":10087.424,"text":"那些資源能源開發的辦法 也都有經費我們一同的來促成 讓部落看看如何能夠參與 好不好 次長好 謝謝主席"},{"start":10106.677,"end":10127.133,"text":"謝謝邱昭偉 請國發會的高副主委跟經濟部連次長先問一下副主委我先請教一下 輝達的總部跟研發中心大家都高度關心據聞總部在台北 研發中心在高雄是這樣嗎"},{"start":10129.583,"end":10146.337,"text":"副市委就你掌握到的訊息對 那我想基本上就是輝達的總部會在哪裡那我們都會有說其實還是由他來做正式的宣布那基本上都在台灣其實對台灣"},{"start":10148.174,"end":10167.397,"text":"整體都會有利對台灣當然整理好了不過我還是希望就是大家也高度貫注就是說當然因為有些用電的部分不要用電在南部然後總部都一直落在北部這個其實常理來說其實並並不那麼公平那我覺得其實當然我們希望他整個在台灣但是還希望如果在"},{"start":10168.398,"end":10184.465,"text":"國發或經濟部能夠溝通還是要希望持續鼓勵讓整個分散開來因為這幾年其實從輝達到AMD在高雄投資確實也相當多那我們也希望持續的思考有時候也許他們的顧慮點是在於過去來慣性都在"},{"start":10185.545,"end":10204.747,"text":"臺北啦 但是我還是希望思考一下不要只有這種算力中心 當然我們還是爭取啦但不要只有算力中心 耗電量大的是在高雄我們希望總部這些也能夠往高雄來思考好不好 讓南北有更而且現在很多的群聚也都在高雄啦 我們希望持續的溝通 持續的來協調"},{"start":10205.888,"end":10225.182,"text":"委員放心 因為現在政府就行政院施政的主軸就是均衡台灣所以我們六大的區域跟生活圈裡面其實全島都是很平的這一點 老師我也要特別提醒這個高雄的電力是充分供應的包括邱隊委員選區的興達到我選區的大嶺到現在的不管是"},{"start":10226.302,"end":10246.331,"text":"燃氣電廠到西街都在進行都快速在推所以高雄的電力是很充沛供應這個一定要讓更多的業界知道不要只是設在北部但是南部供電我想這個並不是一個好的方案長期來說那個耗損跟風險都存在著那我們希望鼓勵更多的業者往南部去做投資"},{"start":10247.071,"end":10268.634,"text":"我想國際大廠他的資訊應該我們會給他充分的資訊他也會做正確的評估選擇最適的地點我都印象中那時候松湖連變電所都還不願意興建然後還發生了很多的問題你連不要說電廠連變電所市長可以講連變電所都不願意的時候後來發現真的沒電了不是沒電不是"},{"start":10269.355,"end":10290.269,"text":"南部供電上來給你問題你沒有連變電所都沒有你電怎麼送進去所以我們還是呼籲說如果說要有產業來的話一定要當地要有充分的那個電力供應電是基本的大家都要用電產業用電民生用電大家都要用電但是要支持電力的建設對要支持電力的建設那市長我也問一下那總部跟研發中心有沒有機會到高雄來這個我還是"},{"start":10293.747,"end":10310.155,"text":"那個像副主委講的做來做去他們來公布比較適當也希望經濟部持續的溝通啦好不好就是不要只有用電或一些不論在南部還是要持續爭取好不好那我再來問一下次長啦那個跟副主委先休息啦我問一下今年的水電會不會漲"},{"start":10311.741,"end":10339.079,"text":"今年的水電因為在我們已經講說在過年期間這個東西都不會去調整嘛那今年會不會漲因為還是要經過兩個有一個機制在有一個機制在會去充分的討論考慮到當下的整個經濟狀況還有民生的物價的狀況對因為水電漲其實都是一個大的問題都是一個大的問題要很謹慎省省來跟社會溝通包括我們的物價包括我們的這個各項指數能控制很好跟我們整個都控制很好是有很大的關係"},{"start":10340.62,"end":10349.524,"text":"那當然我問了那如果像這樣台電好了啦政府的撥補聽說2000億也不給現在看起來好像是這樣2000億也不給那也不給你漲電價那台電後續的經營上會不會出現問題"},{"start":10353.168,"end":10374.583,"text":"這個應該有不同的可能性啦因為如果是這個2000億確實是為了以前在壓低民生物價的時候去做出來的貢獻啦那當然我們是希望說他們等於是由政策去決定他們啦照理說國際原物料價格增加你當然就市場機制你就是必須漲但是國家要求你穩定住嘛"},{"start":10375.263,"end":10385.732,"text":"那如果說真的最後沒有的話我們還是要求台電在一些經營方面好好再去檢討會不會產生經營上的壓力跟問題會不會會內部有沒有評估過有有會不會有問題在應該是財務上會很困難財務上困難到什麼程度他如果要舉債他舉債上限應該"},{"start":10398.058,"end":10415.038,"text":"剩下不多我可以請副總稍微說明一下舉债上限到了嗎再來虧損的話它會再大幅要不要說明一下台電說明一下跟副總報告齁它不但舉債這個會越來越多那利息也會相對增加所以它整個舉債的成本一定會相對的增加"},{"start":10415.572,"end":10443.955,"text":"所以你們今年變 如果政府也不撥布給你們也不讓你們漲變價的話那你們只有不斷的繼續舉債那會超過你們舉債上限嗎上限現在 其實我們現在在舉債的同時就是來投標的其實已經越來越少以前都兩三倍以上現在已經快接近一倍也就是說我們現在舉債的有可能都是額度都已經沒有辦法額滿了這樣那公司經營上會不會有問題我們一直在努力的維持台電的經營的穩定"},{"start":10445.309,"end":10469.045,"text":"我還是希望經濟部門台電這些訊息還是要讓大家更清楚大家台電努力的我覺得台電是很優秀很多優秀的同仁那這些部分其實問題在於整個國際的能源包括國家的一些政策那其實大家應該理性來討論那你既不給他撥補你也不同意他調整那這樣狀況你要台電怎麼去穩健的經營我覺得這個還是要"},{"start":10471.247,"end":10497.168,"text":"經濟部跟台電還是要不斷的對社會說明清楚我覺得這個才能理性來討論我個人是認為其實應該要給予合理的撥補讓整個這個經費那再來我問一下那個台水的部分過去我曾經提過700億的部分來降低漏水率那我也看到了院長也很支持808百億那這個漏水率減了之後那這些經費的部分未來有沒有調漲水價的壓力"},{"start":10498.41,"end":10521.911,"text":"因為這個跟那個水價是比較無關的啦這個等於是由行政院支持整個經費啦因為水價是31年沒有調啦那這個東西如果要動的話我們都會審視但是這樣的那個來做漏水這塊改善是確定要做的嗎這確定要做的我們希望加速改善啦因為你要再開發新的水源越來越難那從漏水反倒是比較好的方法市長謝謝"},{"start":10524.153,"end":10548.746,"text":"好 謝謝請回座 待會兒總統今天表現不錯 時間空調可以明天講接受消費資訊請議員認識麻煩請到那個次長哪一個次長 典警司長"},{"start":10561.784,"end":10581.366,"text":"市長您是預計年後退休嗎2月份3月份2月份退休為什麼國智慧部長來以後次長相繼退休沒有沒有他上次講說是因為立法院給你們壓力很大那真的是這樣子嗎沒有這個是人生自己的規劃那立法院給你壓力大不大"},{"start":10582.049,"end":10598.773,"text":"當然啦當然立法院就是有要求要叫一些東西我們還是都要努力的來達成那是因為這個原因所以沒有沒有不是不是那可是郭志輝講的啊沒有沒有這個人因素那你打臉他沒有沒有打臉他那我想問一下齁我先問一下因為我看經濟部的那個記者會"},{"start":10602.25,"end":10618.502,"text":"部長有特別提到有關於台積電的因為以前大家經濟部的政策是說那台積電如果要到其他國家投資的話要落後兩世代就N加2政策嘛但是郭部長改口了他的說法是說以後沒有所謂的N加2了啦只要企業有賺錢就去啦"},{"start":10619.463,"end":10640.036,"text":"他說政府的目的就是讓企業可以賺錢換言之以後台積電是不是他2奈米或幾萬以先進製程想要去哪個國家經濟部投審會全部都放行是這個意思嗎這我們還是一個審查機制在啦沒有他的態度是說沒有N加2嘛所以以後就不是以N加2當作一個標準的我們還是要經過計審會跟"},{"start":10641.657,"end":10662.468,"text":"跟委員會這個兩個門檻來那是不是只要是企業有賺錢就是審查標準就是看企業有沒有賺錢沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有"},{"start":10662.588,"end":10689.949,"text":"沒有沒有然後他還講說像那個美國台積電啊要派那個最好的大將台積電最好的大將王老闆去美國才做得起來所以如果說我們沒有這個N加2的這樣子一個政策台積電想賺錢就可以去的話那台積電一個很好的大將通通到各國去啦所以這是我們擔心的嘛因為台積電在台灣算是一個非常賺錢的公司各位朋友我們遊戲規則現在還在還在還是要按照遊戲規則不是他講的那樣啦齁"},{"start":10691.564,"end":10718.382,"text":"然後 那再請教一下那個輝達現在亞洲總部已經確定在台北了嘛 對不對這個要由他公佈啦因為劉靜清已經公佈了啦劉靜清國發會主委已經公佈了我想問一下 因為還是你們郭部長啦之前都一帶風向說好像輝達的亞洲總部不會在台北大家都猜錯為什麼故意又要去講這個東西真的很怪"},{"start":10720.083,"end":10734.52,"text":"好啦 不會為難你啦 對 不會為難你對 不會為難你免得你以後講的跟他不一樣那我想關心一下那個水費因為我們現在對於水價調整方案我們看不懂你知道之前講是說自來水公司要調漲水價然後一次要漲四成"},{"start":10735.322,"end":10760.576,"text":"那坦白說啦水價如果說三十幾年沒漲的話你要漲一點大家我覺得都是可以接受啦但是一下漲到四成漲這麼多我覺得大家都會擔心會不會引起比如說民生的問題或者是物價通膨的問題那現在感覺又改口了又說沒有這個規劃說呢沒有水價漲四成的規劃然後計算合理水價也不代表漲價"},{"start":10762.293,"end":10782.809,"text":"我真的看不懂然後再來就是講說如果要調整方案的話是不是採取分級銷售機制來落實照顧民生我先講第一件事情因為物價調漲這個東西非常敏感你們一講話很多比如說店家什麼他們會預先漲價他說我要因應之後水價漲價我要預先漲價"},{"start":10784.85,"end":10800.397,"text":"物價一漲就跌不下來所以講這種漲價事情要非常謹慎小心那怎麼可能先拋出一個四成以後又說沒有了我們要有什麼分級銷售機制什麼叫分級銷售機制我首先要澄清跟委員澄清沒有"},{"start":10801.757,"end":10819.441,"text":"經濟部從來沒有拋出說要漲四成的這樣的一個那為什麼會有這個消息出來這個是外面自己去算說如果是31年沒漲然後要調到什麼機制他們自己去算出來絕對沒有這一回事所以不是你們講的不是那如果說好那什麼是因為那個要去調漲的話什麼是分級銷售機制來來來"},{"start":10824.863,"end":10849.481,"text":"因為這個東西也不是我們的資料也不是你講的我們正在規劃它上面寫說經濟部重申耶它說例如是否採取分級銷售機制那個只是說如果是有的話可以朝這個方向但是現在還在規劃我們三個月內會提出一個規劃方向而且這個規劃有一個機制它要調一個機制不是說外面講的說我調就調而且會考慮到民生的這些項目謝謝"},{"start":10854.303,"end":10856.825,"text":"好 市長請回座 消費資金委員請黃財長委員好 謝謝主席 我想請經濟部臨時長"},{"start":10876.31,"end":10884.031,"text":"我再確認一下就是水電雙漲今年不知道會不會漲是但是為什麼要放這個消息呢"},{"start":10885.106,"end":10906.163,"text":"這個消息是哪裡來的因為我們因為我不知道這消息從哪裡來的因為第一個過年的時候我們是有發布一個新聞稿是水電油氣這個東西就變頭半頭啊那至於說水電這個要不要漲因為它有一個機制在沒錯所以不要不要空口恫嚇人民也不要讓大家覺得說好像"},{"start":10907.403,"end":10926.315,"text":"對經濟部不太滿意就放一些消息來打你們然後每次都是你們來背黑鍋其實我們也有對外去說明說沒有沒有這回事就講得很清楚而不是讓別人來消我覺得這個是對民生有關的不可以隨意這樣子用放消息測風向的方式這第一點第二個"},{"start":10927.296,"end":10949.782,"text":"在去年總統大選的時候其實賴總統說過如果兩岸緊張天然氣無法進口的時候核能會是緊急所謂的緊急使用核能那經濟部長王美花當時也說涉及相關核安法規我想問了一年過去了我們有關所謂的緊急使用核能政策還是經濟部的政策之一嗎"},{"start":10951.675,"end":10975.265,"text":"這個因為還是要依法所以法規上面做不到嗎?還是做得到?還是次長不方便說?一年過去了,有沒有答案了?還是核能反正非核家園已經確定了,不太可能緊急啟用了所以去年的所謂核電作為緊急啟用的是騙人的回答因為我們的法令規定現在還是沒有改變"},{"start":10975.765,"end":11001.161,"text":"沒有改變所以不太可能做緊急備用啦這是第二個該說清楚的說清楚不要再讓大家覺得有誤解或者是說有可能還會做緊急啟用看起來是不會的就說清楚第二個部分是現在包括你可以看到美國這麼先進的國家他的大火還是讓整個國家碰到了所謂的極端氣候我們的問題是在於說接下去的未雨綢繆"},{"start":11002.947,"end":11030.792,"text":"我們對於所謂的經濟穩定有沒有做過所謂的經濟兵推經濟部跟國發會或者是相關的企業家因為今年我們看到日本共同社他報導說有114家日本主要的大型企業進行調查有53%的日本企業將近60家針對台灣如果發生戰爭極端情境已經做好準備而且正在考慮做好準備"},{"start":11031.618,"end":11052.299,"text":"也就是說台灣的大企業很多行銷全世界我們對於所謂台灣碰到的戰爭極端奇境我們曾經做過準備或有考慮做過準備嗎因為我想這些國際大廠應該本身在對這部分都會有一些台灣對於我們自己的國家相關的企業有做過這樣的規劃"},{"start":11054.02,"end":11073.43,"text":"比如說緊急應變的手冊人員疏散的計畫還有所謂的撤離那當然國外的廠商他會有撤僑我們自己對於自己的企業有沒有相關的經濟兵隊你跟我們報告因為我這個這個業務我沒有涉入好所以我要接要講那是不是請國發會一起上台國發會高副主委委員好副主委你認為台灣有多少企業有做這樣的準備"},{"start":11083.707,"end":11103.157,"text":"還是從來沒有想過 也沒有想過要做地緣政治風險我覺得地緣政治風險一定是現在各個國際就是大型企業他考慮的那個因素所以緊急應變計畫我覺得不單單是企業他要考慮而是我們國家在我們這麼重大的我們台灣算是非常重要的地緣政治的"},{"start":11104.116,"end":11130.21,"text":"算是核心地帶 其實我們的國家應該做好緊急並推的規劃很好 我希望能不能夠由國發會跟經濟部告訴我一下我們對於國內的企業有沒有類似相關的緊急應變計畫然後提供給本席 再做一個參考好 因為這屬於國安 我們再來恰好那國發會請劉部 那經濟部先請回我想請那個財政部以及數位產業署來 財政部理事長數位產業署"},{"start":11133.891,"end":11160.103,"text":"市委好好 三位好市長我想今天我要問的是有關行動支付的普及率行動支付在國發會主政然後數位產業署在推動現在目標本來是在106年當時的行政院長賴清德說114年要達到90請問一下現在的普及率有多少"},{"start":11161.834,"end":11179.12,"text":"我们在财政部这部分我们推动的主要是对那个小规模企业的你们是来解说对我们是对小规模来数产数位产业数你们大概现在普及率是多少我们大概在112年的时候普及率大概是80.7%所以114年要达到90%做不做得到"},{"start":11182.021,"end":11209.855,"text":"我們目前在努力當中努力當中好 但是今天請財政部的原因就是因為我們這個相關的優惠措施到今年的年底也就是說它還沒有達到90%可是你的優惠措施到年底可能就結束了所以我的意思是說行動支付重不重要重要我們希望小規模的營業人能夠進來然後給他的優惠但是好像還是有一些成效不彰的狀況將近80%是做不到"},{"start":11210.735,"end":11235.863,"text":"這個部分有沒有檢討過我想這個部分因為我們目前因為時間還沒到我們還是請我們各地區國稅局很努力的在跟我們是所以重點是來所以國發會數位產業署跟財政部我覺得這件事情是國家的重大政策他現在只有80我們其實到很多國家去已經不太需要用到現金了在台灣很多地方可能還是需要用到現金"},{"start":11236.463,"end":11261.95,"text":"可是這個部分的行動支付的推廣還有小規模營業人的部分我希望這個政策可能要持續下去直到百分之百為止可以嗎我們會跟數位部還有國防會一起來考量就是推動目標至少90%以上而不能只是以90%為目標第二個如果可以的話中小型的規模的營業人給他租稅的優惠可能讓他願意參加"},{"start":11263.47,"end":11291.108,"text":"所謂的行政支付會更有誘因我們會到會配合相關部會我們會不管怎麼樣我希望財政部一個月之內我們跟大家討論一下接下去的評估方案好嗎因為到年底要結束了那年底以後呢怎麼辦我們財政部負責部分由我們來那個一個月那個請數位產業署跟國發會以及財政部一起來把這個政策接下去的後續的作業方式提供相關的報告給本席"},{"start":11291.448,"end":11306.277,"text":"好是好謝謝好謝謝請回座賴委員賴委員不在蔡英文不在林大輔林大輔林大輔不在蘇勳賢蘇勳賢蘇勳賢不在黃汪威黃汪威黃汪威不在蔡宇蔡宇蔡宇在"},{"start":11315.657,"end":11323.643,"text":"好 謝謝昭偉那我們是不是有請我們國發會副主委 高副主委國發會高副主委那以及經濟部我們的市長 經濟部臨時長好"},{"start":11332.823,"end":11358.817,"text":"副主委跟市長那最近因為在討論整個半導體然後大廊方計畫那也希望說透過整個AI半導體的發展可以把台灣從高雄到屏東台南嘉義這樣的一個這個半導體的一個產業鏈然後可以把它串在一起那當然嘉義目前有一個很大的優勢"},{"start":11359.628,"end":11387.064,"text":"就是台積電的這個COWASCOWAS廠它目前是把嘉義當作中心所以COWAS它大概就是先進封裝的一個技術所以大概未來的AIAI晶片它要到使用端是不是都要經過所謂的封裝先進封裝 傳統封裝都必須要先封裝這個AI才有辦法被使用嘛那我想要進一步的去請教那如果是日本"},{"start":11388.424,"end":11413.275,"text":"日本現在雄本的AI製造這些AI晶片需不需要封裝有一部分可能要再送回台灣這邊要送回台灣封裝對不對連美國現在這一部分除非他的供應鏈有建立起來事實上在美國也是要送回台灣封裝我們就這樣認為說台灣會做成AI的日不落國就是說我們除了製造厲害之外"},{"start":11414.335,"end":11438.76,"text":"AI的伺服器97%在台灣這邊對然後整個製程在台灣是很重要所以我要跟市長以及我們副主委說未來的貨運空運貨運一定是台灣整個經濟脈絡的主軸那這個空運我們看到了我們陳其邁高雄其邁市長他認為說他們在高雄應該要填海造陸創造台灣的一個貨運國際機場"},{"start":11441.08,"end":11452.664,"text":"但是填海造陸 畢竟如果規劃的大概是18到20年但是台灣確實沒有辦法等18到20年這麼久的時間那我們也知道現在台灣整個貨運95%以上都在桃園機場"},{"start":11458.998,"end":11480.959,"text":"以目前的小港機場的貨運大概只佔1.79%那所以呈現的就是說我們目前這些AI他們在南部如果製造好後他要經過運送到國際運送到國際的一個情況之下那目前到桃園等於他的入運成本是相對比較高的"},{"start":11481.499,"end":11492.825,"text":"所以我們要下降入運成本我們就必須要讓這些貨運可以在南部的機場可以做一個分流這個副主委跟次長你們是否贊成"},{"start":11494.72,"end":11514.925,"text":"那我就具體建議了我從剛剛講整個晶片是需要經過COWAS新過封裝傳統封裝先進封裝那嘉義就是封裝的一個基地未來不管是在世界各國包括日本美國生產的晶片總是要運送回來台灣那我們嘉義水上機場"},{"start":11517.052,"end":11540.755,"text":"我覺得副主委你可以去規劃在高雄填海造陸未完成前這段過渡時期我們先把水上機場它的貨運功能提升因為水上現在就是國際機場只是它飛的班次不多只是它的使用量不夠所以我們水上機場我們不要去說它會變成一個以客運為主 不用我們把它變成以貨運為主的一個機場"},{"start":11543.332,"end":11567.032,"text":"就是強化它貨運來 貨機怎麼有一個停機坪可以在節省國家這個過渡期間最少的資源之下我們來發展水上的國際貨運機場我想要請教副主委跟次長這樣的看法你們是否可以來支持並且來跟嘉義來協助來提案"},{"start":11567.657,"end":11575.122,"text":"因為當然如果說可以把我們的貨運做暢期流的話我覺得這個方向都是可以去考慮的好 那我想聽副主委"},{"start":11576.109,"end":11598.355,"text":"站在國安會的立場報告委員 其實我們這一次的六大產業還有生活圈的規劃裡面我們事實上都會考慮到當地的發展的產業裡面它所需要的一些基礎建設我們會全盤考量那如果是像委員所提的這個建議 我們會做評估"},{"start":11598.875,"end":11616.559,"text":"因為其實有不同的選擇那我會選一個其實最有效率的方式因為基本上一定是會支持在地產業的發展如果您說的如果貨運空運海運不足貨運這些 晶片基本上都是空運我們會全盤考量"},{"start":11620.16,"end":11635.624,"text":"我要跟副主委再說一下,因為在高雄填海造陸完成前這20年的期間是整個晶片、整個AI非常重要的時刻所以我們不能先在等這個20年後那我們嘉義水上機場有一個優勢這個優勢勒,說起來我會心生,不然我一定要告訴你們聽,這叫落後的優勢"},{"start":11642.506,"end":11658.286,"text":"為什麼現在其他的機場,我們現在他的貨運難以發展就是因為有宵禁的問題,11點過,飛機不能飛,宵禁的問題很嚴重啊那我們嘉義,雖然一樣要面對宵禁,可是我們B港,我們那裡,我們那裡都地比較多,我們那裡都做事的"},{"start":11659.126,"end":11683.231,"text":"所以我們那邊附近農地比較多所以你在在於這個宵禁的問題要貨運讓他貨倉急流然後宵禁的問題要面對的時候我們的嘉義這個地方就有這樣的優勢可以當這20年內我們南部的一個在一個大型的國際機場完成前這20年的過渡期間跟他在最終期間就要保留這塊這樣好不好"},{"start":11685.411,"end":11701.057,"text":"謝謝委員提醒因為這還是有限制到交通部的相關權責那我想我們國發會會來因為國發會規劃嘛會來做協調而且我再跟副主委跟市長再說一個很好的優勢我們以後打我們國際人說我們台灣很強的"},{"start":11702.518,"end":11711.49,"text":"我們水上也可以有基礎,他說水上怎麼會有機場咧我們就說對,我們這個名字叫做水上國際基礎,貨運為主國外人聽到就說台灣強,水上也可以有基礎,太厲害了"},{"start":11718.76,"end":11745.11,"text":"好不好我們再來跟交通部再來做協調跟協商我們很期待這一件事情我們這樣好好的來規劃大南方的這樣的一個AI半導體的一個聚落我們除了說這個37線橋下的這個交通路運要好之外要怎麼樣台灣接軌國際南部的這個貨運國際機場非常的重要好不好好 謝謝全力支持水上機場"},{"start":11748.495,"end":11753.517,"text":"主席謝謝 麻煩請經濟部次長跟國防會副主委來 次長我先請教"},{"start":11775.58,"end":11796.613,"text":"前兩天這個媒體有講因為川普總統即將就任我想世界的經濟政治局勢大家也都在看那其中當然川普總統他有很多的一個言論其中講到風電的一個部分那大家就去問我們經濟部郭智慧部長郭智慧部長居然講是說他任期才四年影響有限"},{"start":11798.703,"end":11824.936,"text":"次長認同我們郭部長這樣講嗎我本來想說今天是部長要來我想請教說他是用什麼樣的一個邏輯思考判斷會針對美國新上任的總統他直接講說人家任期四年影響有限是看衰共和黨不會再繼續執政還是說認為美國總統的政策影響全球不大台灣身為全球的一個"},{"start":11826.246,"end":11854.987,"text":"供應鏈也好或說我們產業的一環裡面我們可以這樣子忽視嗎來 市長我覺得任何一個國際的一個改變我們身為國際的一環我們都要戒慎恐懼的好好去做評估啦是 淨零碳排是全球的趨勢嘛對對對那但是川普總統有川普總統的想法我想有他的想法但是我們有我們的既定政策是 可是會我們會去跟人家講是說人家總統的影響力有限經濟部有做過評估川普總統影響力到多少"},{"start":11857.302,"end":11872.441,"text":"有嗎沒有沒有所以部長也沒有找我們次長來討論我們只有說在國際的情勢是怎麼走向然後我們國內的政策是怎麼走向我們要按照原來的步驟這樣來往下走所以次長"},{"start":11873.422,"end":11894.65,"text":"我真的還是誠摯的呼籲經濟部是我們國家的經濟發展火車頭部長的話真的不要讓大家捏一把冷汗我不知道說你們次長跟部長的溝通到底順不順暢但是最重要的是如果說部長都這樣子拖江野馬然後隨便說人家的總統任期影響有限"},{"start":11895.782,"end":11909.449,"text":"我真的會感到非常擔憂啊這一點拜託 帶話回去我再轉告我們部長是 因為本來本席是很希望是直接跟部長就教 到底什麼教育影響有限來 那國發會副主委委員好"},{"start":11911.232,"end":11925.202,"text":"賴清德總統在選舉的時候就來到本席的淡海新市鎮並且也講說淡海科學城新北123那其中淡海科學城裡面就是我們新市鎮二期一的計畫現在150公頃的土地"},{"start":11927.403,"end":11941.723,"text":"那我們也看到是說國土署現在在做這個相關的盤點那但是國發會跟經濟部要來製作產業的一個帶動那目前本席這兩天因為有預算的關係也有請國發會的主委國發會的同仁來這邊來說明但都還沒有進度"},{"start":11944.346,"end":11963.022,"text":"甚至連最基本的期程先期計畫可行性評估甚至我們問是說你到底有沒有可行性計畫來先去做研究未來我們是要往AI的人才引進比較軟體的設備還是說讓整體的還是硬體的方向沒有一個方向"},{"start":11963.643,"end":11974.712,"text":"好 跟委員報告因為這不是我主管的業務不過我大概知道說其實我們的六大區域的產業跟生活圈裡面的確有把這個您剛才說的淡海科學城對 放在裡面"},{"start":11980.017,"end":11986.023,"text":"那可是呢因為北部的我們北部有一個地位我忘了那個名稱啦那個裡面這個科學層的確在裡面可是呢因為這個計畫剛剛才因為我們上位的指導計畫剛剛才核定那接下來呢因為我記得是應該是經濟部會做一個主導的單位"},{"start":12001.677,"end":12022.996,"text":"因為經濟部主導對然後他會規劃一些細部的內容所以可能目前還沒有辦法像那麼明確的跟委員報告可是接下來一定會有一個具體的結果副主委我只提醒啦兩個部分第一賴清德總統來到新北都講說新北123淡海科學城對"},{"start":12023.757,"end":12046.773,"text":"卓榮泰院長在淡江大橋視察的時候也講說我們要把後壁變前院甚至提說北部最好的產業園區條件兩個空港桃園空港跟台北港就是淡海科學城既然都已經院長跟總統都有這樣的一個宣示的話我們國發會跟經濟部速度不能慢吧是"},{"start":12047.273,"end":12069.29,"text":"要跟上對就是的確一定是在那個規劃的範疇內委員放心那的確我們可能腳步要加快計劃兩個部分一個是期程一個是經費所以本席也要求就是說國發會這邊要讓本席看到以及讓地方看到你的計劃的期程到底在哪裡以及你要投入相關逐年編列的經費"},{"start":12070.291,"end":12092.716,"text":"這一點部分是不是可以請副主委事後指示同仁再給本席相關報告不過這個計畫基本上是因為我們六個區域各有主政的部會這個是經濟部主政那我們是負責上位規劃我們會跟經濟部一起來 次長熟不熟悉你看我每一次問內政部國土署國土署說是經濟部跟國發會問國發會 國發會說是經濟部來 那經濟部打起來吧"},{"start":12098.697,"end":12124.882,"text":"如果交給我們 我們就來規劃了好啦本席要的是一個進度地方期待很久但是我們地方更重要是要看到的是時程規劃不用畫大餅可是讓我們知道說未來每年每年逐步具體的時程我想這才是我們地方真正需要的發展好不好 請給本席相關的資料好不好 謝謝好 謝謝 請回座"},{"start":12131.564,"end":12158.453,"text":"好 黃國昌 黃國昌 黃國昌黃國昌不在登記發言委員處不在場之外 其餘不均已發言完畢訓導結束由委員林德甫 林黛樺 顏寬恆所提書面諮詢我們列入記錄刊登空報書面諮詢及位及答案部分請相關單位一周內以書面答案並複製本會好 那討論事項今天所列的產業創新條例部分條例修正草案合併訓導結束"},{"start":12160.462,"end":12185.308,"text":"現在進行廣泛討論廣泛討論沒有人登記發言進行 接著進行逐條討論那今天條文比較多 請議事人員宣讀所有條文如果有修正動議跟附帶舉例請一併宣讀宣讀完畢之後我們休息到下午兩點"},{"start":12190.787,"end":12210.524,"text":"2點30分再繼續開會請宣讀行政院函勤審議產業創新條例第10條之一為優化產業結構達成智慧升級轉型並鼓勵多元創新應用最近3年內無違反環境保護勞工戶食品安全衛生相關法律且情節重大"},{"start":12211.585,"end":12237.857,"text":"且情結重大情勢之公司或有限合夥事業自中華民國114年1月1日起至118年12月31日止投資於自行使用之全新智慧機械導入第五代行動通訊系統自通安全產品或服務人工智慧產品或服務節能減碳之相關全新硬體軟體技術或技術服務其支出金額在統一課稅年度內合計達新台幣"},{"start":12240.078,"end":12254.663,"text":"100万元以上18亿元以下之范围得选择以下列方式之一抵减应纳盈利事业所得税额一经责定不得变更其个年度投资抵减金额已不超过当年度应纳盈利事业所得税额30%为限"},{"start":12256.624,"end":12270.072,"text":"一于支出金额5%限度内抵减当年度应纳盈利失业所得税额二于支出金额3%限度内自当年度起三年内抵减各年度应纳盈利失业所得税额"},{"start":12271.789,"end":12300.739,"text":"公司或有限合夥事业于同一年度合并试用前项投资抵减及其他投资抵减时其当年度合计得抵减总额已不超过当年度应纳盈利事业所得税额50%为限但因其他法律规定当年度为最低抵减年度且抵减金额不受限制者不在此限第一项所称智慧机械指运用机器人数位化管理虚实整合或基层制造之"},{"start":12301.539,"end":12328.937,"text":"智慧技术元素并具有生产资讯可视化故障预测精度补偿自动参数设定自动控制自动排成应用服务软体弹性生产或混线生产之智慧化功能者第一项所称第五代行动通讯系统此运用符合第三代合作伙伴计划第十五版以上规范之中高频通讯大量天线阵列网路切片网路虚拟化"},{"start":12332.82,"end":12348.713,"text":"邊緣運算等第五代行動通訊相關技術元素設備含測試所需或垂直應用系統以提升生產效能或提供智慧服務者第一項所稱自通安全產品或服務只為防止"},{"start":12349.894,"end":12378.191,"text":"資通系統或資訊遭受未經授權之存取使用控制洩漏破壞篡改銷毀或其他侵害確保其機密性完整性及可用性運用於終端與行動裝置防護網路安全維護或資料與雲端安全維護有關之硬體軟體技術或技術服務第一項所稱人工智慧產品或服務指運用機器學習演算法"},{"start":12379.315,"end":12406.604,"text":"深度学习演算法大型语言模型或自然语言处理之技术元素仿人类智慧进行认知学习及推论能大规模利用各类数据类型形成产业所需知辨识分类或生成等各式应用优化企业营运或生产制造效能之硬体软体技术或技术服务第一项所称节能减碳使运用公用节能或制成改善之"},{"start":12407.344,"end":12424.95,"text":"低碳技術元素以提升能源使用效率減少能源或資源耗用進而降低溫室氣體排放公司或有限合夥事業申請適用第一項投資底檢應提出具一定效益之投資計畫經各中央目的事業主管機關專案核准"},{"start":12425.51,"end":12445.212,"text":"且于同一课税年度以申请一次为限前八项智慧机械第五代行动通讯系统资通安全产品或服务人工智慧产品或服务节能减碳投资抵减之适用范围具一定效益之投资计划申请期限申请程序和定机关抵减率"},{"start":12445.632,"end":12463.78,"text":"当年度合计得抵减总额之计算及其他相关事项之办法由中央主管机关会同财政部定之第22条公司或有限合伙事业从事国外投资有下业情形之一者应于实行投资前向中央主管机关申请核准"},{"start":12464.56,"end":12476.638,"text":"一 投资于特定国家或地区二 投资涉及特定产业或技术三 投资达一定金额公司或有限合伙事业从事国外投资非属前项锁定情形者"},{"start":12478.047,"end":12502.639,"text":"經於實施投資後報中央主管機關備償公司或有限合夥事業依第一項申請核准投資經中央主管機關會商相關主管機關認定有下列情形之一者中央主管機關得全部或一部不予核准或維護付款之核准依影響國家安全二對國家經濟發展有不利影響三影響政府遵守所締結之國際條約或協定"},{"start":12505.4,"end":12522.129,"text":"四 申请投资公司或有限合伙事业违反劳动相关法规引发重大劳资纠纷尚未解决第一项及第二项之情形公司或有限合伙事业实行国外投资后国外投资事业之经营有前项各款锁定情形之一者"},{"start":12522.629,"end":12540.255,"text":"中央主管机关得令其采行一定改正措施情节重大者得令其撤回投资第一项锁定特定国家或地区特定产业或技术一定金额国外投资之方式出资种类申请程序第二项备查事项报请"},{"start":12541.095,"end":12569.094,"text":"被查期间前项一定改正措施及其他相关事项之办法由中央主管机关会商相关主管机关定之第23条之一为协助新创事业公司之发展自中华民国114年1月1日起至118年12月31日止依有限合伙法规定新设立且属第32条规定之创业投资事业符合下列各款规定"},{"start":12570.307,"end":12599.006,"text":"且自该事业设立第二年度起各年度资金应用于我国境内及投资于实际营运活动在我国境内之外国公司金额合计达当年度累积投资金额50%并符合政府认测经申请中央主管机关逐年核定者得适用第三项课税规定依设立当年度及第二年度各年度中了日有限合伙契约约定出资总额"},{"start":12599.887,"end":12629.085,"text":"达新台币1亿5000万元二 设立第三年度实收出资总额于年度中了日达新台币5000万元且累计投资于新创事业公司之金额达该事业当年度实收出资总额50%获达新台币2亿元且不得低于该事业当年度实收出资总额20%三 设立第四年度实收出资总额于年度"},{"start":12629.505,"end":12636.447,"text":"中柳日達新台幣1億元且累計投資於新創事業公司之金額達該事業當年度實收出資總額50%或達新台幣3億元且不得低於該事業當年度實收出資總額30%"},{"start":12646.07,"end":12664.346,"text":"四 设立第五年度实收出资总额于年度终了日达新台币1亿5000万元且累计投资于新创事业公司之金额达该事业当年度实收出资总额50%或达新台币4亿元且不得低于该事业当年度实收出资总额40%"},{"start":12666.983,"end":12692.83,"text":"适用第三项规定之事业事后办理清算者于清算期间内不得不受前项规定限制继续适用第三项规定符合第一项规定之事业自设立之会计年度起十年内得就各该年度收入总额依所得税法第24条规定计算盈利事业所得额分别依有限合伙法第28条第二项规定之盈余分配比例"},{"start":12693.75,"end":12713.784,"text":"計算各合夥人盈利所得由合夥人一所得稅法規定增免所得稅合夥人為個人者不適用同法第15條第4項及第5項規定屬源自所得稅法第4條之一所定證券交易所得部分個人或"},{"start":12715.205,"end":12725.179,"text":"總機構在我國境外之營利事業之合夥人免納所得稅合夥人於實際獲配適用本項規定事業之營餘時不記錄所得額課稅"},{"start":12727.458,"end":12755.464,"text":"適用前項規定之事業如有特殊情形得於該項鎖定試用期間屆滿三個月前專案報經中央主管機關核准延長試用期間延長之期間不得超過五年必以延長一次為限適用第三項規定之事業於該項鎖定試用期間內應因鎖得稅法第七十一條第一項第七十五條第一項及第二項規定期限內按財政部規定格式辦理結算"},{"start":12756.779,"end":12774.561,"text":"決算及清算申報無需計算及繳納其因納之稅額不適用同法第39條第一項但書虧損扣除第42條第一項轉投資收益不記錄所得稅課稅本條例及其他法律有關租稅優惠之規定"},{"start":12776.583,"end":12796.097,"text":"並免依同法第66條之9未分配營餘加徵營利事業所得稅及第102條之2第一項報繳未分配營餘加徵稅額且不適用所得基本稅額條例規定適用第三項規定之事業其當年度所得之扣繳稅款"},{"start":12797.458,"end":12823.175,"text":"得依有限合伙法第28条第二项规定之盈余分配比例计算各合伙人之已扣缴税款该已扣缴税款得抵缴合伙人之应纳所得税额适用第三项规定之事业应于各适用年度所得税结算申报或结算清算申报法定截止日前将依第三项规定计算之合伙人之所得税"},{"start":12824.156,"end":12849.193,"text":"所得额与前开已扣缴税款按财政部规定文件格式填发于各合伙人并以该事业年度决算日应办理当期决算申报事由之日或清算完结日作为合伙人所得归属年度有第三项所得之合伙人为非我国境内居住之个人或总机构在我国境外之盈利事业者"},{"start":12850.387,"end":12866.384,"text":"因已适用该项规定之事业为所得税扣缴义务人于该事业当年度所得税结算申报或结算清算申报法定截止日前依规定之扣缴率扣取税款并于该截止日"},{"start":12867.245,"end":12884.848,"text":"知次日起算十日内向国库缴清及开具扣缴平单向该馆税捐基专机关申报核验后填发于合伙人该截止日知次日起算十日内欲连续三日以上国定假日者所扣"},{"start":12885.938,"end":12912.318,"text":"所扣稅款缴纳扣缴平单申报核验及发给期间延长5日该合伙人有前项已扣缴税款者得自其因扣缴税款中减除你适用第三项扣税规定之事业应于设立之次年2月底前责定一经责定不得变更适用期间经中央主管机关核定不符合第一项规定者自不符合规定之年度起"},{"start":12913.038,"end":12936.366,"text":"不得再適用第三項規定並因依所得稅法及所得基本稅額條例規定辦理第一項所稱新創試驗公司指依公司法設立之公司或實際營運活動在我國境內之外國公司且於適用第三項規定之試驗取得該公司新發行股份時設立未滿五年者"},{"start":12936.866,"end":12952.176,"text":"第一項及前項所稱實際營運活動在我國境內之外國公司只依外國法律設立之公司在我國境內設立子公司或分公司且經中央主管機關認定符合下列各款規定者"},{"start":12952.796,"end":12975.46,"text":"一、做成重大经营管理、财务管理及人事管理决策者为我国境内居住之个人或总机构在我国境内之盈利事业或做成该等决策之处所在我国境内。二、财务报表、会计账簿记录、董事会议事录或股东会议事录之制作或储存处所在我国境内。"},{"start":12976.389,"end":13005.675,"text":"3.在我国境内有实际执行主要经营活动低项实收出资总额与累计投资金额之计算资金运用于我国境内及投资于实际营运活动在我国境内之外国公司金额之及比例之计算符合政府政策之范围投资于新创事业公司累计金额站有限合伙事业实收出资总额比例之计算与申请及核定程序"},{"start":13006.215,"end":13023.149,"text":"第四項之特殊情形及延長試用期間之申請程序前項實際營運活動在我國境內之外國公司之認定與相關證明文件及其他相關事項之辦法由中央主管機關會同財政部定之"},{"start":13024.648,"end":13052.571,"text":"適用第三項規定事業之所得計算與申報程序第七項扣繳程序及其他相關事項之辦法由財政部定之第七項之扣繳率由財政部擬定報請行政院核定第23條之二個人以現金投資於成立未滿5年經中央目的事業主管機關核定之國內高風險新創事業公司且對同一公司當年度投資金額達新台幣50萬元"},{"start":13054.692,"end":13068.281,"text":"并取得该公司之新发行股份持有期间达三年者得较投资金额50%限度内自持有期间届满三年之当年度个人综合所得总额中减除"},{"start":13069.119,"end":13084.749,"text":"個人適用錢向投資金額減除優惠當年度合計得減除總額以新台幣500萬元為限其中投資之高風險新創事業公司非屬經中央目的事業主管機關論定之國家重點發展產業者"},{"start":13086.59,"end":13113.969,"text":"该部分当年度合计得减除之金额以新台币300万元为限请二项个人之资格条件高风险新创事业公司之适用范围与资格条件国家重点发展产业之范围及认定程序减除总额限额之计算申请期限申请程序持有期间计算核定机关及其他相关事项之办法由中央主管机关会同财政部定之"},{"start":13115.134,"end":13132.15,"text":"第67條之一適用第12條之一第12條之二及第19條之一者公司應與股東轉讓或辦理帳部劃撥之年度或緩客期間屆滿年度之次年度因1月31日前依規定格式向合管"},{"start":13133.191,"end":13145.404,"text":"向該管稅捐基金機關列單申報該以轉讓辦理帳部劃撥或借其尚未轉讓之股份資料該次年度1月連續3日以上國定假日者"},{"start":13149.568,"end":13172.004,"text":"列單申報期間延長至2月5日子其未依限或未據時申報者稅捐基金機關儲限其責令補報或填發外儲新台幣5萬元以上50萬元以下罰還經稅捐基金機關限其責令補報或填發公司未依限補報或填發者儲新台幣10萬元以上100萬元以下罰還"},{"start":13174.005,"end":13174.466,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":13187.338,"end":13203.064,"text":"所得稅法第71條規定為一線辦理結算申報而以依同法第79條第一項規定補辦結算申報者因依稅捐基增機關調查核定之所得而按當年度適用之營利事業所得稅率計算之"},{"start":13204.744,"end":13229.091,"text":"金額增10%滞报金但最高不得超过新台币3万元最低不得少于新台币1500元二 欲所得税法第79条第一项规定之补报期限人为办理结算申报者应依税捐基增机关调查核定之所得按当年度适用之initiate所得税率"},{"start":13229.791,"end":13255.362,"text":"所得税税率计算之金额并增20%代报金但最高不得超过新台币9万元最低不得少于新台币4500元3.以依所得税法规定办理结算结算决算或清算申报有短漏报依所得税法规定之课税所得额者应就税金积增机关"},{"start":13256.889,"end":13285.254,"text":"核定短漏之課稅所得額按當年度適用之initial所得稅率計算之金額除2倍以下之罰緩4為依所得稅法規定自行結算自行辦理結算決算或清算申報而經稅捐基金機關調查有短漏報依所得稅法規定計算之課稅所得額者應就稅捐基金機關核定短"},{"start":13285.814,"end":13302.63,"text":"漏之課稅所得額 按當年度適用之盈利事業所得稅稅率計算之金額除3倍以下罰還5 未依有限合夥法第28條第二項規定之盈餘分配比例計算各合夥人盈利所得額者"},{"start":13303.13,"end":13317.028,"text":"因按其计算之所得额与依规定计算所得额之差额除5%之罚还但最高不得超过新台币30万元最低不得少于新台币15000元6."},{"start":13317.028,"end":13320.994,"text":"未依现或未据实填发第23条之一第6项规定"},{"start":13321.814,"end":13350.091,"text":"文件者處新台幣7500萬元之罰還並通知現期填發借其未填發或未據時填發者因案未填發文件之所得而處5%之罰還但最高不得超過新台幣30萬元最低不得少於新台幣15000元第23條之一第7項規定之扣繳義務人有下列各款情形之一由稅捐及等機關分別依各該"},{"start":13352.545,"end":13356.894,"text":"規定處罰一 未依第二三條之一第七項規定扣繳稅款者"},{"start":13360.771,"end":13382.758,"text":"除限期責令補繳應扣未扣或短扣之稅款及補報扣繳平單外並按應扣未扣或短扣之稅而處一倍以下之罰還其未於限期內補繳應扣未扣或短扣之稅款或不按時補報扣繳平單者應按"},{"start":13386.579,"end":13403.259,"text":"因扣未扣或短扣之稅額處三倍以下之罰還二以依第23條之一第7項規定扣繳稅款而未依同項規定之期限案時申報或填發扣繳平擔者"},{"start":13404.52,"end":13427.25,"text":"或除限期責令補報或填發外儲新台幣1500萬元1500元以上2萬元以下罰還經稅捐基增機關限期責令補報或填發扣繳平單 扣繳義務人為依限按時補報或填發者儲新台幣3000元以上45000元以下罰還三 預遞"},{"start":13431.853,"end":13437.983,"text":"23條之一第七項規定期限繳納所扣稅款者每日三日加徵1%滯納金第67條之三"},{"start":13442.571,"end":13470.623,"text":"公司或有限合夥事業違反第22條第一項規定未經核准實行投資處新台幣5萬元以上100萬元以下罰還並得令其限期改正停止或撤回投資藉其為改正停止或撤回投資者的案次處新台幣50萬元以上1000萬元以下罰還公司或有限合夥事業實行國外投資"},{"start":13471.343,"end":13496.575,"text":"未履行中央主管機關一第二十二條第三項規定所為之付款或經中央主管機關一第二十二條第四項令採行一定改正措施或撤回投資經限期履行改正或撤回投資而未履行改正或撤回投資者得按次處新台幣五十萬元以上一千萬元以下罰還第七十條"},{"start":13498.877,"end":13511.54,"text":"其他法令享有租稅優惠獎勵補助者不得就統一事項重複享有本條例所定之租稅優惠獎勵或補助公司或企業最近三年因嚴重違反"},{"start":13512.831,"end":13540.546,"text":"環境保護勞工或食品安全衛生相關法律且情節重大經各中央目的事業主管機關認定者不得申請本條例之獎勵或補助並追回違法期間內依本條例申請所獲得之獎勵或補助依前項規定應追回獎勵或補助者各中央目的事業主管機關應於追回之處分確定後與其網站公開"},{"start":13542.239,"end":13559.052,"text":"該公司或企業之名稱依稅捐基增法第48條第二項規定停止或追回本條例之租稅優惠者財政部應於該停止並追回處分確定年度之次年公佈其名稱不受稅捐基增法第33條規定之限制"},{"start":13562.605,"end":13571.272,"text":"第72條本條例自公佈日施行但第10條施行期間自中華民國99年1月1日起至108年12月31日止本條例中華民國104年12月30日修正公佈之第10條第12條之一第19條之一施行期間"},{"start":13584.123,"end":13596.496,"text":"自105年1月1日起至108年12月31日子本条例中华民国106年11月22日修正公布之第12条之一第12条之二第19条之一"},{"start":13597.91,"end":13607.717,"text":"施行期间自106年11月24日起至108年12月31日子第十条施行期间自106年11月24日起至108年12月31日子第23条之后施行期间自106年11月24日"},{"start":13621.849,"end":13636.322,"text":"本条例中华民国107年6月22日修正公布之第19条之一施行期间自107年6月22日起至108年12月31日本条例中华民国108年7月24日"},{"start":13639.184,"end":13661.76,"text":"24日修正公布至第12条之一第12条之二第19条之一施行期间至109年1月日起至118年12月31日至第23条之三施行期间至公布生效日起至118年12月31日本条例中华民国112年"},{"start":13664.27,"end":13680.132,"text":"1月19日修正公布条文施行期间至112年1月1日起至118年12月31日至本条例中华民国全年全月全日修正至第23条之二施行期间至114年1月1日起至118年"},{"start":13683.059,"end":13709.492,"text":"12月31日子第22條及第67條之三施行日期由行政院定之委員葛如軍等提案第10條之一第一項第三具修正為自中華民國108年1月1日起至118年12月31日子投資於自行使用之全新智慧機械或人工智慧技術投資於導入第五代及後續更先進科技之行動通訊系統或自111年1月1日起至118年12月31日子"},{"start":13712.313,"end":13729.048,"text":"投資於智通安全產品或服務之相關全新硬體軟體技術或技術服務其支出金額在同一課稅年度內合計達新台幣100萬元以上得選擇以下列方式之一抵減因納盈利事業所得稅額一經責定不得變更"},{"start":13730.269,"end":13754.258,"text":"其各年度投資抵減金額已不超過當年度因納營利事業所得稅而百分之三十為限其文字同行政院提案第一項第二項同行政院提案第三項前段文字修正為第一項所稱智慧機械只運用巨量資料人工智慧物聯網機器人精實管理數位化管理虛實整合基層製造或感測器之智慧技術元素"},{"start":13755.39,"end":13778.201,"text":"其餘文字同行政院提案第三項第一項所稱能工智慧技術只涵蓋晶片中端硬體雲端運算系統圖像處理器現場可程式邏輯雜症列特殊應用機體電路等硬體設施類神經網路專家系統大數據趨勢分析開發平台架構深度學習機器學習語音辨識影像辨識自然"},{"start":13779.221,"end":13805.47,"text":"语言处理逻辑城市设计模糊逻辑概率推理本体工程等演算法技术且应用于金融科技智慧制造智慧医疗智慧健康智慧交通智慧家庭智慧工业自动驾驶车智慧农业自动零售智慧城市智慧娱乐智慧教育量子电脑脑机界面体现智慧等领域第五项前段修正为第一项所称第五代及后续更先进"},{"start":13806.63,"end":13819.617,"text":"行动通讯系统只运用至少符合第三代合作伙伴计划第15版以上规范之中高频通讯其余文字同行政院提案第4项第6项同行政院提案第5项第7项同行政院提案第8项"},{"start":13820.97,"end":13848.824,"text":"第八項手續前段修正為前七項智慧機械人工智慧技術第五代及後續更先進科技之行動通訊系統或自動安全產品或服務投資抵檢之適用範圍其餘文字同行政院提案第九項第十七條之一為鼓勵產業創新人才培育最近三年內無違反環境保護勞工或食品安全衛生相關法律且情節重大情勢之公司或有限合夥事業"},{"start":13849.984,"end":13872.522,"text":"自中华民国113年1月1日至118年12月31日投资于人才培育支出的选择以下列方式之一抵减因那盈利事业所得税额一经责定不得变更并以不超过其当年度因那盈利事业所得税额30%为限1.于支出金额15%限度内抵减当年度因那盈利事业所得税额2."},{"start":13873.463,"end":13899.97,"text":"于支出金额10%限度内自当年度起三年内抵减各年度因那一例事业所得税额公司或有限合伙事业适用前项投资抵减同年度并与适用本条例或其他法律投资抵减其当年度合计得抵减总额已不超过当年度因那一例事业所得税额50%为限但依其他法律规定当年度为最后抵减年度且抵减金额不受限制者"},{"start":13901.291,"end":13907.78,"text":"其依其他法律規定計算之最後年度級減進而不在此限低效能財培育"},{"start":13908.997,"end":13932.203,"text":"細指為培育受雇員工辦理或指派參加產業創新相關技術課程培訓前項產業創新相關技術課程培訓指巨量資料人工智慧物聯網機器人精實管理數位化管理虛實整合基層製造感測器生物辨識資訊安全第五大級後續跟先進科技之行動通訊系統無人載具離岸風潮開發及運為"},{"start":13934.464,"end":13947.672,"text":"先进制成智慧电网设计电力系统规划与维运循环材料资源循环能源整合生物循环区块链等技术元素之训练活动及以"},{"start":13948.208,"end":13971.691,"text":"及其他经各中央目的事业主管机关核定之产业创新相关训练活动第一项公司或有限合伙事业应提出完整人才培育计划经各中央目的事业主管机关专案核准使适用之但股份有限公司之人才培育计划经董事会同意者不在此限第一项投资抵减之适用范围期限申请程序"},{"start":13972.532,"end":13978.777,"text":"核定機關施行期限、抵檢率及其他相關事項之辦法由中央主管機關會同財政部定之"},{"start":13982.011,"end":14010.108,"text":"委員您淡化等提案第十條之一第一句首句前四字修正為最佳化第三句修正為自中華民國一百零八年一月一日起至一百十八年十二月三十一日止投資於自行使用這全新智慧機械投資於導入次世代行動通訊系統或自一百十一年一月一日起至一百十八年十二月三十一日止投資於自通安全產品或服務之相關全新硬體軟體"},{"start":14011.149,"end":14030.84,"text":"技术或技术服务以及投入节能减碳人工智慧机体电路设计软体电子设计自动化相关技术应用及开发软硬体之投资与服务采购其支出金额在同一课税年度内合计达新台币100万元以上30亿元以下之范围"},{"start":14032.148,"end":14060.108,"text":"其餘文字同行政院提案第一項第二項同行政院提案第三項同委員葛如軍等提案第三項第四項手續修正為第一項所稱次世代行動通訊軟體其餘文字同行政院提案第四項第五項同行政院提案第五項第六項第一項所稱節能減碳只為應對氣候變化或減緩和減緩全球暖化透過提升能源利用效率推廣清潔能源減少"},{"start":14061.109,"end":14081.763,"text":"碳排放等方式以降低能源消耗及温室气体排放之技术投资软硬体及服务采购第七项第一项所称人工智慧技术为使用机器学习深度学习等演算法使电脑能够从大数据中学习分析并做出预测实现工作流程自动化提高生产效率"},{"start":14082.623,"end":14103.521,"text":"并广泛应用于自动驾驶内容生成、智能推荐系统及资料挖掘、分析等领域之技术。第八项,第一项所称机体电路设计软体、电子设计自动化技术为使用软体工具及方法,用于协助设计、验证及和制造机体电路,并涵盖布局与布线。"},{"start":14104.241,"end":14118.255,"text":"模擬驗證與物理設計等各設計階段提高機體電路設計之效率和準確性加速產品之開發及創新第九項同行政院提案第八項第十項前段修正為前六項智慧機械"},{"start":14119.594,"end":14141.963,"text":"次世代行动通讯系统或自通安全产品或服务以及投入节能减碳能工智慧机体电路设计软体电子设计自动化相关技术应用及开发软硬体制投资与服务采购投资抵减之适用范围其余文字同行政院提案第九项第十七条之一第一项第二句末改为重大"},{"start":14143.323,"end":14166.376,"text":"情節重大情勢者莫具改為其個年度投資抵減金額其文字同委員葛如軍等提案第一款及第二款同委員葛如軍等提案前向人才培育細指辦理安排或指派受雇員工參加產業創新技術課程培訓以促進專業知識和技能之提升前向產業創新技術課程細指與人工智慧智慧"},{"start":14167.196,"end":14186.703,"text":"制造绿能科技与永续治理循环经济服务创新健康医疗研发制裁生成式人工会资安技术深度学习人工智慧系统平台智慧显示科技影像处理与分析自然语言处理智慧物联网科技智慧制造技术"},{"start":14187.643,"end":14200.073,"text":"智慧機器人、新興能源材料、奈米原件光電與儲能原件等研究、再生能源系統、新世代替代能源、節能科技、智慧電網、油電車輛、電動車輛系統等與產業創新相關並能提升"},{"start":14205.658,"end":14223.129,"text":"专业智能之技术训练活动申请核准适用第一项规定投资抵减之公司其当年度投入于产业创新人才培育支出不得适用其他法律为鼓励产业创新人才培育目的提供之所得税优惠"},{"start":14224.537,"end":14247.208,"text":"公司於同一年度申請核准適用第一項規定之投資抵減或與本條例或其他法律規定之投資抵減合併適用時其當年度合計抵減總額已不超過當年度因應利失業所得稅額50%為限但依其他法律規定當年度為最後抵減年度且抵減金額不受限制者不在此限前五項投資"},{"start":14248.208,"end":14260.979,"text":"抵减之适用范围资格条件一定规模申请期限申请程序核定机关当年度合计得抵减总额之计算及其他相关事项之办法由中央主管机关会同财政部定之"},{"start":14262.256,"end":14280.09,"text":"委員楊瓊英等提案第十條之一第一項第三具修正為投資於自行使用之全新智慧機械第五代行動通訊系統自通安全產品或服務能工智慧產品或服務節能減碳之相關全新"},{"start":14280.919,"end":14309.769,"text":"硬體之後其餘文字同線型條文第1項第2項至第6項同線型條文第7項於第5代行動通訊系統後修正為動號自通安全產品或服務人工智慧產品或服務節能減碳等文字其餘同線型條文第7項第72條除第6項手續修正為本條例中華民國112年1月19日修正公布之條文實行期間增列第7項本條例中華民國"},{"start":14310.529,"end":14340.089,"text":"全年全月全日修正之第十条之一,实行期间自一百十四年一月一日起至一百十八年十二月三十一日止,其余同现行条文。委员和新存等提案第十条之一,第一项第三句后修正为自中华民国一百零八年一月一日起至一百二十一年十二月三十一日止,投资于自行使用之全新智慧机械投资于导入第五代行动通讯系统或自一百一十一年。"},{"start":14341.249,"end":14358.276,"text":"1月1日起至121年12月31日止投资于自通安全产品或服务或自114年1月1日至121年12月31日止投资人工智慧产品或服务节能减碳至相关全新硬体软体技术"},{"start":14359.016,"end":14382.642,"text":"或技術服務其支出金額在同一課稅年度內合計達新台幣100萬元以上20億元以下之範圍其餘文字同縣型條文第一項第二項之第六項同縣型條文第七項除莫具修正為優化企業營運或生產製造效能其文字同行政院提案第六項第八項及第九項同行政院提案第七項及第九項"},{"start":14383.482,"end":14411.216,"text":"委員邱瑩等提案第十條之一第一項第三具修正為投資於自行使用之全新智慧機械投資於導入第五代行動通訊系統自通安全產品或服務人工智慧產品或服務節能減碳之相關全新硬體軟體技術或技術服務其支出金額在同一課稅年度內合計達新台幣100萬元以上20億元以下之範圍其餘文字同行政院提案第一項第二項是第五項同行政院提案"},{"start":14412.196,"end":14433.322,"text":"第6項同委員何新淳等提案條文第7項第7項至第9項同行政院提案第7項至第9項第72條增列第7項本條例中華民國全年全月全日修正至第10條施行期間自114年1月1日起至118年12月31日止委員蔡其昌等提案第10條之一"},{"start":14434.302,"end":14457.786,"text":"第一項除條文中改為18億元其餘文字同委員邱瑩等提案第一項第二項同行政院提案條文第三項刪除人工智慧等字其餘條文同現行條文第四項及第五項同行政院提案條文第六項第一項所稱人工智慧系指以機器為基礎之系統該系統具自主運行能力"},{"start":14458.266,"end":14469.613,"text":"透过输入或感测经由机器学习与演算法可为明确或隐含之目标实现预测内容建议或决策等影响实体或虚拟环境之产出者"},{"start":14470.868,"end":14496.556,"text":"第七項第一項所稱節能減碳細值以提高能源使用效率達成能源耗用減少進而降低溫室氣體排放者第八項同行政院提案條文第九項首具修正為前八項智慧機械第五代行動通訊系統自通安全人工智慧或節能減碳之產品或服務其餘文字同行政院提案第七十二條增訂第七項本條例中華民國春年春月"},{"start":14497.276,"end":14509.457,"text":"全日修正之第十条之一条文实行期间自114年1月1日起至118年12月31日止其余文字同现行条文台湾民众党立法院党团提案"},{"start":14510.916,"end":14534.547,"text":"第十條第一項第三具修正為自中華民國108年1月1日起至118年12月31日止投資於自行使用這全新智慧機械投資於導入次世代行動通訊系統或自111年1月1日起至118年12月31日止投資於資通安全產品或服務人工智慧產品或服務潛能檢探之相關全新"},{"start":14535.307,"end":14562.944,"text":"硬体软体技术或技术服务其支出金额在同一课税年度内合计达新台币100万元以上30亿元以下之范围其文字同行政院提案第一项第二项同行政院提案第二项第三项除第二句修正为指运用物联网机器人精实管理数位化管理虚实整合基层制造或感测器之智慧技术元素其余同行政院提案第三项第四项据所修正为第一项所称次世代行动通讯系统"},{"start":14564.198,"end":14592.024,"text":"莫具增加亦涵蓋其下一代及未來更次世代所發展出之行動通訊技術者其餘文字同行政院提案第四項第五項同行政院提案第五項第六項同委員何欣淳等提案第七項第七項同委員林在化等提案第六項第八項同行政院提案第八項第九項首具修正為前八項智慧機械次世代行動通訊系統或自通安全產品或服務人工智慧節能減碳投資抵減之適用範圍"},{"start":14592.944,"end":14621.437,"text":"其余文字同行政院提案第九項委員協議共等提案第十條之一第一項前四句修正為最佳化第三句修正為自中華民國108年1月1日起至118年12月31日止投資於自行使用這全新智慧機械第五代行動通訊系統自通安全產品或服務人工智慧產品或服務節能減碳這相關全新硬體軟體技術或技術服務其支出金額在同課稅年度內合計達新台幣100萬元以上"},{"start":14622.917,"end":14649.177,"text":"20亿元以下之范围其文字同现行条文第一项第二项之第九项同行政院提案条文第二项之第九项第72条增订第七项本条例中华民国全年全日修正之第十条之一实行期间自114年1月1日起至118年12月31日止委员邱志伟等提案第十条第一项续文除于第二句后增加或投资"},{"start":14650.154,"end":14664.054,"text":"或投资并购国内或营运总部在国内之新创事业等字其余文字同现行条文第一款手续修正为与支出或投资并购金额25%限度内第二款手续修正为与支出或投资"},{"start":14665.708,"end":14679.846,"text":"並購金額百分之二十限度內其文字同線型條文第二項同線型條文第二三條之一除第一項第二句修正為自中華民國一百十四年一月一日起第一款出資總額修正為新台幣五千萬元第二款首句出"},{"start":14681.087,"end":14703.457,"text":"總額修正為1500萬元 目據修正為或至少達新台幣2億元第三款手續出資總額修正為3000萬元 目據修正為或至少達新台幣3億元第四款手續出資總額修正為5000萬元 目據修正為或至少達新台幣3億元其餘文字同行政院提案第一項第二項居中修正不受第一項"},{"start":14704.799,"end":14727.828,"text":"規定限制其餘文字同行政院提案第二項第三項及第四項同線型條文第四項及第五項第五項及第六項手續中項次修正為第三項其餘文字同線型條文第六項及第七項第七項及第八項手續中項次修正為第三項其餘文字同線型條文第八項及第九項第九項目據修正為設立未滿八年或公開發行前者"},{"start":14729.147,"end":14756.52,"text":"其餘文字同行政院提案第9項第10項除去中修正為在我國境內設立直接或間接控制子公司或分公司其餘文字同行政院提案第10項第11項除去中於有限合夥事業時收出資總額後增加累計投資金額其餘文字同行政院提案第11項第12項除手續項次修正為第3項其餘文字同現行條文第13項"},{"start":14757.941,"end":14776.232,"text":"第二十三条之二第一项除手续中年限修正为成立未满八年募据增加该个人适用本项规定每年得减除之金额合计以新台币一千万元为限其文字同行政院提案第一项公司或有限合伙事业以现金投资于前项锁定高风险新创"},{"start":14777.333,"end":14805.692,"text":"事业公司或且对同一公司当年度投资金额达新台币300万元投资于成立未满8年之高风险新创事业公司于成为该公司股东达3年之当年度得以其取得该公司股票之价款20%限度内抵减当年度应纳盈利事业所得税额其每年得抵减总额已不超过该公司或有限合伙事业当年度应纳盈利事业所得税额50%为限"},{"start":14808.154,"end":14828.264,"text":"前項公司或有限合夥事業如為創業投資事業應由其股東或合夥人按該創業投資事業投資於成立未滿8年之高風險新創事業公司之金額依其持有該創業投資事業股份或出資比例計算投資金額於創業投資事業成為該"},{"start":14831.485,"end":14841.719,"text":"高風險新創事業公司股東達3年至當年度按投資金額至20%限度內抵減因納盈利事業所得稅額或按投資金額50%限度內至當年度個人綜合所得總額中減除"},{"start":14847.066,"end":14861.489,"text":"其每年得抵减总额已不超过该股东或合伙人当年度应纳盈利事业所得税额50%为限个人或股东或合伙人每年得减除之金额而即以新台币1000万元为限第二项公司"},{"start":14862.31,"end":14887.075,"text":"或有限合夥事業前項創業投資事業之股東或合夥人於同一年度合併適用其二項投資抵檢及其他投資抵檢時其當年度合計得抵檢總額已不超過當年度因納營利事業所得稅額或綜合所得稅額50%為限但依其他法律規定當年度為最後抵檢年度且抵檢金額不受限制者不在此限"},{"start":14887.675,"end":14911.164,"text":"第一项个人 第二项公司或有限合伙事业第三项创业投资事业之股东或合伙人适用投资抵减之要件高风险新创事业公司之适用范围与资格条件申请期限申请程序持有股份或成为股东之期间计算核定机关及其他相关事项之办法由中央主管机关会同财政部定之"},{"start":14912.435,"end":14927.763,"text":"第23條之四為鼓勵創業投資事業投資新創事業公司個人或盈利事業原始任股或英募屬於第32條規定之新創業投資事業因創立或擴充而發行之晉名股票"},{"start":14928.363,"end":14949.441,"text":"或出資參與屬於第32條規定之有限合夥創業投資事業持有時間達4年以上且該創業投資事業於設立5年內投資於新創事業公司並取得該公司之新發行股份資金額達10收資本額或有限合夥契約約定出資額之百分之"},{"start":14950.16,"end":14969.525,"text":"三十者 於該創業投資事業達成投資新創事業公司比例之當年度得以其在該創業投資事業之投資金額20%限度內自當年度其五年內抵減各年度應納所得稅額其每一年度得抵減總額以不超過當年度應納所得稅額50%為限前項所稱投資"},{"start":14973.387,"end":14981.746,"text":"与新创事业公司之金额细指投资于成立未满8年之国内货营运总部在国内之新创事业公司之合计"},{"start":14983.223,"end":15009.981,"text":"创业投资事业应于设立或扩充时与本条与第23条之二之间则依适用一经责定不得变更本条各项之资格条件申请期限申请程序持有期间计算和定机关及其他相关事项之办法由中央主管机关会同财政部定之第72条除第7项修正为本条例中华民国全年全月全日修正之第23条之一第23条之二及第"},{"start":15011.362,"end":15032.235,"text":"23條之四 實行期間自114年1月1日起至118年12月31日止其餘文字同行政院提案條文委員陣陣前等提案第十條之一 第一項第三具修正為投資於自行使用之智慧機械第五代行動通訊系統資通安全"},{"start":15033.524,"end":15033.764,"text":"第二項是第五項"},{"start":15055.714,"end":15085.075,"text":"同行政院提案第六項及第七項同委員邱穎穎等提案第六項及第七項第八項第一項所稱再生能源自用發電設備及儲能設備指依再生能源發展條例及再生能源發電設備設置管理辦法申請設置且利用再生能源自用發電設備及第二型及第三型再生能源發電設備及儲能設備其生產或儲存之電能不銷售於再生能源"},{"start":15087.136,"end":15111.531,"text":"第9項同行政院提案條文第9項第10項前段聚首改為前9項文字終於節能減淡後增加再生能源自用發電設備及儲能設備其餘文字同行政院提案第9項委員吳立華等所提第22條條文修正動議除第3項第3款修正為"},{"start":15112.757,"end":15133.659,"text":"違反國際條約及協定之義務第四款修正為侵害智慧財產權增列第五款侵害原住民文化權者增列第六款申請投資公司或有限合夥事業有重大勞資糾紛或重大環境污染之情勢者其他條文同行政院提案"},{"start":15136.884,"end":15152.133,"text":"委員賴瑞隆等四人所提修正動議第一項刪除起氣年限並增列自用再生能源發電儲能等文字其餘條文與原條文相同第七十二條第七項"},{"start":15154.338,"end":15173.693,"text":"修正為本條例中華民國某年某月某日修正之第十條之一第二三條之一及第二三條之二施行期間自一百十四年一月一日起至一百十八年十二月三十一日止及與原條文相同以上宣讀並請參閱關係文書及書面資料宣讀完畢"},{"start":15516.783,"end":15517.517,"text":"MING PAO CANADA MANGA"},{"start":15732.227,"end":15732.367,"text":"感谢观看"},{"start":15863.254,"end":15864.394,"text":"MING PAO CANADA MANGA"},{"start":15950.899,"end":15951.954,"text":"MING PAO CANADA MANGA"},{"start":16201.897,"end":16205.333,"text":"MING PAO CANADA // MING PAO TORONTO"},{"start":16361.874,"end":16361.995,"text":"谢谢观看"},{"start":16483.038,"end":16485.316,"text":"MING PAO CANADA // MING PAO TORONTO"},{"start":16534.916,"end":16536.698,"text":"MING PAO CANADA MANGA"},{"start":16655.704,"end":16657.033,"text":"谢谢观看"},{"start":16777.466,"end":16777.546,"text":"感谢观看"},{"start":16827.841,"end":16842.17,"text":"感谢观看"},{"start":16948.703,"end":16948.784,"text":"谢谢观看"},{"start":17003.121,"end":17004.241,"text":"MING PAO CANADA MANGA"},{"start":17071.203,"end":17094.457,"text":"感谢观看"},{"start":17103.072,"end":17103.153,"text":"谢谢观看"},{"start":17132.565,"end":17132.646,"text":"谢谢大家"},{"start":17217.202,"end":17217.282,"text":"谢谢大家"},{"start":17264.838,"end":17288.893,"text":"感谢观看"},{"start":17343.547,"end":17344.855,"text":"MING PAO CANADA MANGA"},{"start":17389.353,"end":17390.606,"text":"MING PAO CANADA MANGA"},{"start":17444.209,"end":17445.555,"text":"MING PAO CANADA MANGA"},{"start":17525.513,"end":17525.594,"text":"谢谢大家"},{"start":17937.222,"end":17937.303,"text":"谢谢观看"},{"start":18102.773,"end":18130.395,"text":"感谢观看"},{"start":18135.63,"end":18136.852,"text":"MING PAO CANADA MANGA"},{"start":18227.705,"end":18256.334,"text":"感谢观看"},{"start":18273.817,"end":18274.718,"text":"MING PAO CANADA MANGA"},{"start":18317.708,"end":18318.643,"text":"MING PAO CANADA MANGA"},{"start":18603.032,"end":18603.746,"text":"MING PAO CANADA MANGA"},{"start":18655.837,"end":18656.443,"text":"由 Amara.org 社群提供的字幕"},{"start":18716.127,"end":18719.786,"text":"感谢观看"},{"start":18776.408,"end":18804.405,"text":"感谢您的观看"},{"start":18891.28,"end":18897.723,"text":"感谢观看"},{"start":18955.657,"end":18955.757,"text":"感谢观看"},{"start":19001.056,"end":19007.824,"text":"MING PAO CANADA MANGA"},{"start":19066.237,"end":19067.073,"text":"MING PAO CANADA MANGA"},{"start":19101.929,"end":19106.063,"text":"谢谢观看"},{"start":19209.13,"end":19209.21,"text":"谢谢大家"},{"start":19383.533,"end":19385.947,"text":"MING PAO CANADA // MING PAO TORONTO"},{"start":19516.937,"end":19517.274,"text":"谢谢观看 欢迎订阅我的频道"},{"start":19623.087,"end":19624.019,"text":"MING PAO CANADA MANGA"},{"start":19662.703,"end":19667.346,"text":"MING PAO CANADA MANGA"},{"start":19696.857,"end":19697.079,"text":"谢谢观看,下次见!"},{"start":20177.333,"end":20181.8,"text":"MING PAO CANADA MANGA"},{"start":20362.108,"end":20385.48,"text":"明镜与点点栏目"},{"start":20419.514,"end":20440.907,"text":"感谢观看"},{"start":20565.273,"end":20565.354,"text":"谢谢观看"},{"start":20597.85,"end":20597.93,"text":"谢谢观看"},{"start":20816.118,"end":20816.951,"text":"谢谢观看,下次见!"},{"start":21163.168,"end":21163.57,"text":"谢谢观看,下次见!"},{"start":21385.954,"end":21386.055,"text":"谢谢观看"},{"start":21577.711,"end":21600.496,"text":"好來我們繼續開會現在進行協商來賽場委員有王世堅委員陳廷輝委員好第10條的部分請經濟部先生說明一下第10條是本席的提案來那個市長今天沒有在地方"},{"start":21610.812,"end":21633.141,"text":"好 你針對我的部分 現在處理第10條喔 第10條 這個第10條跟委員報告因為那個是那個研發頭底啦那研發頭底因為如果在這邊把那個併購那一塊把它放進來其實跟原來的那個條例是比較不太合適那其實這個可以 如果未來有需要可以在那個氣併網那一邊來做放在哪裡 氣併網"},{"start":21636.762,"end":21658.301,"text":"七月併購法之前有跟我說過我也覺得我也可以接受啦那還有沒有要補充的第四條還沒有補充的沒有沒有還有一個抵檢率因為抵檢率那個是租稅衡平的問題如果你把它調到那麼高因為我們還有其他的一些條例像生計條例等相關"},{"start":21660.496,"end":21684.03,"text":"還有那個後面的那個十之一的這樣的一個稅率的問題如果調的話可能所有的都要牽動到好 了解那個你也跟我說明過我也可以理解那我們第十條我們不許修正維持原條文大家明見好那我們繼續處理委員提案的部分"},{"start":21685.017,"end":21701.216,"text":"有葛如君 楊瓊英 邱毅英 臺灣民眾黨團 本席還有鄭振前好 十之一的部分還有一個是讓行政團隊先說明行政部先說明 經濟部先說明"},{"start":21711.254,"end":21722.862,"text":"那個次長可以拜託因為這些委員他們提案那你們去溝通完的結果跟你們現在的狀況對啊你要不要把你們現在然後你們認知這樣很簡單"},{"start":21729.585,"end":21738.392,"text":"簡簡單單市長市長你就說跟院版最大差別在哪裡我看了這些委員版本跟院版基本上都差不多"},{"start":21741.175,"end":21766.046,"text":"那個國務委員提的是要把機械原來的9項全部保留然後因為我們認為說原來的那個有一些譬如說像物聯網 精使管理或感測器這些其實現在都已經在一般的智慧機械這麼多年來它都已經有了所以這個有點像是基本配備那這一次我們有把這5項稍微調整我們就只有保留4項這一塊我們是希望是說能不能照"},{"start":21766.886,"end":21782.952,"text":"院版通過再來他有講第五代用名稱改我們是講說因為現在如果在國際上講第五代行動通訊系統就應該是可以涵蓋不用再把後續更先進科技的行動通訊去把它加進來"},{"start":21784.523,"end":21803.143,"text":"再來人工因為葛委員他們講說人工智慧技術那因為不是只有技術可能還有產品有硬體有軟體那我們行政院是有把硬體軟體把人工智慧硬體軟體涵蓋進來那葛委員他們這邊就只有談技術是比較模糊那葛委員的那個是沒有把節能減淡納進來我們有"},{"start":21804.324,"end":21814.079,"text":"那再來就是國委員是要把那個支出的金額上限把它刪掉那我們這邊是建議說還是維持我們行政院就到18億18億原本是10億"},{"start":21816.038,"end":21828.426,"text":"那施行期間 葛偉他們有講說108到118年是要自衛基建5G人工智慧那資安就是另外一條111年到118年 那我們是建議說這個時間是不是要它一次性就從114年到118年這樣子"},{"start":21837.995,"end":21863.324,"text":"林大華委員他們講的第一個也是智慧機器要九項那我們是建議說還是維持原來的四項那他把那個我們現在講的第五代把它稱為次世代其實第五代都已經包含這個部分那再來他講的人工技術也是跟前面講的一樣我們是有包含軟硬體他這邊講的是比較比較沒有涵蓋面那麼大那再來我們節能減碳他的定義是包含"},{"start":21863.925,"end":21871.408,"text":"清潔能源那因為我們定義包含公用節能跟製程改善這個兩個而且跟清潔能源是不一樣"},{"start":21872.462,"end":21893.527,"text":"我們節能減碳跟這個是不一樣所以這部分也是那那個林德華林委員他們有講說新增除了人工智慧這邊要增加一個集體電路設計軟體電子設計之外這個東西其實是在我們在做IC設計的一個這個東西沒有必要在這裡面因為涵蓋在軟體裡面"},{"start":21895.547,"end":21918.996,"text":"市長您知道說現在基本上我們院版的部分都有把這些委員所都已經有包含進去只是我們是大象可是這裡面全部都有包含進去你這樣講就好了好不好那差別在支持金額它是30億我們這邊是18億因為其他委員版本都有18億跟21億18億跟21億差在哪裡"},{"start":21923.268,"end":21945.928,"text":"18億跟21億差在哪裡啊?今天就會贏問的這個是差在應用的那個加速的問題啦那又有人沒有以為恥啦,我是不是建議委員會是不是...來,張議員我是提那個30億嘛,我看了國民黨葛如荊跟林黛華那個案子是100萬以上,就等於沒有上限了啦"},{"start":21946.901,"end":21957.946,"text":"這個金額可以談一談 現在最主要我覺得應該是這可能不是經濟部的意見吧是不是財政部認為稅損太多是不是有精算過嗎有有精算 要請財政部財政部說明一下那個理事長"},{"start":21964.167,"end":21987.543,"text":"其實我們是參考了就是以往他們那個舊的就是現行的那個資基投底的相關規定那大概只有就是百分之二的人百分之二的家屬他是會超限那現在因為我們把這個10億已經提高到18億配合這次增加節能檢測跟人工智慧我們是覺得應該已經符合這個企業的需求"},{"start":21988.283,"end":22013.504,"text":"但是就是說那個而且這18億也是我們跟經濟部在行政院討論以後決定最後決定的金額這樣子 以上報告好賴慧蓉抱歉應該是兩部分他一題兩面嘛你本來是10億然後現在很多委員有提18、20跟30因為有人提沒有上限嘛他應該是一題兩面啦就是說一方面除了財稅上面的減少之外你如果給他一些優惠"},{"start":22014.525,"end":22040.133,"text":"他如果做得好也增加稅收所以我才說一體兩面應該要精算過一個數目字出來我們也大概估算了一下其實這兩個就是如果是以18億跟21億來算的話大概差到差不多3億元左右所以財政部的立場是要堅持18億還是如果20億可以接受因為我們是覺得院板其實我們有充分討論所以是不是建議以財政部的立場我們是希望能夠支持院板"},{"start":22042.655,"end":22060.331,"text":"我是建議這樣因為如果一個整數啦因為其實如果你是差那個3億的話我不知道他那個怎麼樣那因為我覺得其實整個21下的整體上面對於整個社會上那我覺得既然整個大家都要在推廣這整件事件上面我是希望說看是才能不能"},{"start":22061.392,"end":22077.575,"text":"也接受啦 如果我們可以一個整數上面的話我覺得我們都希望 這些都是我們希望鼓勵的產業啦那希望鼓勵的事業 那我希望財政部能夠去接受那另外我想要再補充問一下自用的再生能源發電跟儲能的部分經濟部跟財政部的看法 把視頻也帶一邊說明一下"},{"start":22077.95,"end":22106.677,"text":"因為那個再生能源跟那個有一部分我們這裡是講節約能源那個減碳那個那一部分我建議是不是在執法那一邊因為這個還有涉及到有一些是能源用電大戶再生能源的相關的一個議題我是說如果要討論我們在那個執法那邊再來考慮它的使用方法一定要排除說你法定義務你本身要要進的你不能把它拉到這裡去市長要問一下你如果放自用的話這個部分你在執法方跟在母法方會有什麼差別"},{"start":22106.857,"end":22136.278,"text":"就是如果自用再生能源因為那個是大象大象的話如果這樣弄我覺得會比較可能會跟再生能源那邊它本身要進的醫院所以你們建議自用的再生能源發電跟儲能部分放在執法來定制而且要自用而且要限制這個宰名是自用的要限制它的那個所以你們是同意這個方向只是希望放在執法不要放在母法我們是建議說如果要討論是不是在執法上面去做放在母法有什麼差別"},{"start":22137.439,"end":22155.555,"text":"文物法它這樣弄我覺得範圍太寬了所以你們希望再訂那如果你在這個部分把它訂得更清楚呢訂得更清楚因為可能沒辦法去避免到你沒辦法去搭配說把哪一個條例排除掉OK 好了解"},{"start":22157.867,"end":22173.843,"text":"現行條文是100萬元以上,10億元以下,那行政版本已經增加了8億了8億也經過精算過,也跨部會協調討論過嘛所以它不是這樣半倍,半倍說半倍到十倍而已,它有精算過啦"},{"start":22175.758,"end":22179.521,"text":"我真的很感謝就是說大家不分藍綠白還有行政部門大家都支持嘛那現在就是說"},{"start":22199.318,"end":22224.18,"text":"因為訊息問變我們有提10億的 有20億 有30億那現在行政部門是說18億那你說你是八成 那個理由是什麼因為我覺得它是一個上限它一個上限不一定每一個人都可以達到它有一定的那個 對不對所以你如果反而是寬的這樣對我們產業是不是幫助因為你要修一個法"},{"start":22225.081,"end":22240.489,"text":"我想請我們 因為我原本也是提10億而已但是我想提一個因為也有人說沒有上限 大家不能沒有上限但是也有20億也有30億的我倒是覺得應該是寬裂 因為它有它的"},{"start":22241.209,"end":22260.287,"text":"他要申請有他的標準有他的條件他不可能會如此就是能夠隨便都可以拿到上限但是我們現在真的因為包括本席的提案也就增加了項目我希望本席的提案都跟其實跟大家也都蠻雷同那我反而覺得給主席台"},{"start":22260.968,"end":22283.761,"text":"建議就是說因為大家用心去提出項目的時候如果項目有的應該都可以納入因為這樣子可以讓我們的產業更加的多元去選擇因為比如說我提的也有張祺凱提的我沒提我提的可能也有別人沒提的那我認為如果大家看過在這個項目很重要"},{"start":22284.681,"end":22302.238,"text":"項目如果有的應該是要都納入那金額的部分是不是再討論一下因為你說你弄一個八成那我們要修一個法沒那麼容易那沒那麼容易的時候如果我們的產業訊息萬變又跟世界接軌尤其現在的情況AI智慧什麼減碳"},{"start":22303.999,"end":22330.428,"text":"速度會很快我倒是覺得應該要高寬裂一點然後你條件設好這樣子才能夠真正幫助產業要不然你一下子可能半年一年還不夠那就麻煩了我想剛剛那個所有的一個項目那個次長已經有解釋過就是說全部其實我們委員所提案的都是納在裡面都有"},{"start":22330.868,"end":22357.971,"text":"只是他寫的是大範圍沒有寫那麼詳細對 他的更寬啦他的更寬不是沒有納入是更寬那第二個部分是說因為我們這個是一個範圍我覺得我們不用拘泥在所謂的18億我覺得範圍就應該是你說100萬以上20億以下這個我覺得沒有任何問題不是說我一次就一定是怎麼樣"},{"start":22358.852,"end":22374.462,"text":"它是一個範圍所以我覺得我們反而就像剛剛我們大家認知的其實要修一次的法沒有那麼簡單那如果說隨著整個世代潮流的一個趨勢我們反而是把這樣的韌舉先拉開"},{"start":22376.444,"end":22388.214,"text":"讓大家如果有精進的部分 去做一個可以適用的範圍我覺得這可能是比較大家的共識其實我也是認為 應該是要100萬元以上 20億元以下的範圍"},{"start":22396.331,"end":22416.549,"text":"因為這個是用租稅來鼓勵啦租稅鼓勵要贊同 經驗的部分財政部立場不要影響太大我可以理解 是不是這樣啦主席讓我講完我是建議這樣 因為大家其實都表達意見那我看到兩位次長也都表達了看法"},{"start":22416.749,"end":22428.258,"text":"那我是建議那其實大致上的意見都吸納進去了啦那剩下的有些剩餘到那個額度那我是建議其實可以主席可以做個決定啦我是覺得應該是大家都可以接受的範圍內不然這樣好不好 這樣我們就增加2億到20億好不好"},{"start":22433.024,"end":22450.959,"text":"就這樣啦 十八到二十八 說實在對稅收沒什麼用但是你這個多2億 對他們有租稅的鼓勵效果啦其實人工智慧就先好好發展 要不然稅收還增加咧 也有可能 也有可能稅收增加這些包括硬體軟體都很貴啦 而且他們對未來是有幫助的"},{"start":22456.738,"end":22479.238,"text":"財政部理事長,如果有增加個兩億,應該對稅收影響不大吧?基本上當然是對稅收影響不是很大,但是我們其實當時為什麼會堅持說希望用18億,主要就是因為會超限的都是一些大型的企業啦那其實我們十條之一當時的目的就是希望能夠鼓勵中小企業轉型升級"},{"start":22480.739,"end":22500.457,"text":"結果會超額的大概就是少數的那幾家大型企業所以我們才覺得說也許在我們現在評估的額度上面也許已經是比較適當了不過這個當然我們還是尊重最後委員會審查的結果聽說你是用21的是超大型的公司才會的啊鍾小新不都會在18億以下"},{"start":22501.778,"end":22520.184,"text":"這個我們可以再問一下那現在會適用到這個的有哪些的部分目前的話以目前的狀況目前我們統計資料來看的話我們如果用112年度他們適用的狀況來看總共有1476家的企業來申請其中只有9家是超限的"},{"start":22522.076,"end":22536.073,"text":"18億有10億還是原來的10億那如果18億的話會有幾家18億因為現在還不知道可能會更少我們增加了人工智慧跟檢查因為我們增加了那個人工智慧項目更多了那個費用還會在我們上面"},{"start":22539.558,"end":22567.537,"text":"我覺得我們不能以以往說十億有一千多少家然後只有幾家因為我們現在所面臨的跟以往所面臨的條件跟挑戰是不一樣的是不一樣的以前淨零碳排沒有那麼多以前智慧的也沒有那麼多但是你也不要看我們中小企業我們中小企業現在有很多他轉型成功的他轉型成功我們其實是需要幫助這個"},{"start":22568.317,"end":22585.927,"text":"我本來還想提一個修正動議就上限到22億去協助那如果大家同意我們就提一個修正動議就是20億為基準因為我覺得這樣子OK啦好不好我們提一個修正動議就20億就好了已經有修正動議了"},{"start":22587.228,"end":22594.65,"text":"財政部理事長我可以理解但是項目已經擴大很多你不曉得有多少家會來申請所以你的狀況不一樣如果你項目沒有變你要提高這個金額也說不過去所以我是不是增加2億的話大概對稅收影響不大然後我覺得對這些需要企業是有幫助的"},{"start":22618.138,"end":22642.224,"text":"抱歉我覺得是我嘛抱歉我覺得有一個基本概念今天要釐清一下今天為什麼是經濟跟財政的聯繫今天財政部來你不是只有看到稅存你要看到稅增也有可能經濟發展你看這個產創條例為什麼大家都這麼重視是讓我們產業是可以創新可以發展的那我們把這個項目擴大之後"},{"start":22643.503,"end":22658.978,"text":"淨零碳排一方面是它是一個世界的趨勢嘛一方面對人體好的同時永續發展它在經濟發展上面也有貢獻啊那你智慧這個人工智慧它只要進來以後它那個整個企業發展它稅收就會增加所以財政部的那個次長"},{"start":22660.984,"end":22688.242,"text":"我這一個基本概念我們就要說你不是只有算稅損你可能要把那個稅增的增加的部分你要算進去啦所以不要太堅持一定要在18到20而且要讓民眾知道要讓民眾對整個整體的經濟發展是有幫助不是只有在稅整這一塊可能在稅的說的增加也有可能出現好不好從正面去看這個事情有做稅評也有把誘發效果都算出來誘發效果算出來以後其實我們18億有些地方會增加對整個國家發展是好的嘛好不好"},{"start":22688.782,"end":22712.768,"text":"我們這個百分之三十那個上限並沒有取消並沒有跟蹤只是那個額度增加比原本多增兩億那我覺得這個擴大項目那麼多那我覺得應該是可以增加兩億如果文匯公司的話這個早上我們在巡打的時候林志遠說這個是很重要對於產業的轉型發展很重要嘛好"},{"start":22714.348,"end":22726.536,"text":"來我們就一個那個總決議弄一個修正動議啦就20那個修正動議不是已經有提了嗎好那已經宣讀了嘛那個對那個宣讀過了你們再把它連署下來"},{"start":22728.028,"end":22750.787,"text":"連署也可以啦或你們要加提也可以啦那我們就是金額就100萬以下這個100萬以上20億以下的範圍啦其他的都照院版通過好 謝謝那個項目都有納進來嗎都有就以院版的文字嘛院版為主我們院版的範圍是比較大的更大"},{"start":22752.023,"end":22756.469,"text":"好啦 那執法麻煩將來就那麽好來 大家翻到22頁我們處理第12條17條之一來 第12頁"},{"start":22767.028,"end":22793.823,"text":"那十七之一這個是由那個葛盧俊委員還有那個林太太委員他們講的人才培育啦齁那這個其實剛剛我早上在打詢的時候就已經有說明過說其實人才培育現在都是列為費用的那我們其實在政府單位裡都有在做人才培育這一塊我們在輔導費用補助費用也都非常多那我們是建議說這邊是不是就不要去有那個租稅抵減這樣子"},{"start":22795.544,"end":22813.459,"text":"好 各位委員好 那我們就不予修正不予增訂那第一處理 第二十二條第十八頁那第一步先說明一下"},{"start":22817.955,"end":22835.948,"text":"22條你要不要說明一下22條只有一個臨時動議就是那個武力法務委員早上有講的要把那個影響原住民還有智慧財產權那個那我們是建議這個因為這個是屬於對外投資"},{"start":22836.989,"end":22850.839,"text":"都在投資的話如果你類這個應該是他的違反智慧財產權或是說你對當地原住民的權益應該是要到當地國那一邊那我們在審查的時候我們可以來提醒他們你們可以用附帶決議來處理對對對用附帶決議來處理因為吳衛原很關心這個議題對對對我們用附帶決議來處理用附帶決議好附帶決議幫我寫一下你們寫一個寫一個提案附帶決議"},{"start":22860.97,"end":22875.762,"text":"好 那我們22條的部分就按照院版通過那那個剛剛那個那個立法那個修正動議再請主席提一下來 一屬於第23條之一"},{"start":22879.512,"end":22896.011,"text":"23條之一就有幾個意見啦一個就是那個新什麼時候成立的新狀要來適用這一次的齁那因為我們之前提的我們這一次是先是要從新的規定就從114年1月1號開始因為這樣界限才會清楚啦不然如果你用"},{"start":22896.451,"end":22904.895,"text":"就跟前面那個我們那個那個實質一樣如果是要把時間又涵蓋太大會會界限會分不清楚我們是希望是說是114年1月1號起新設立創業投資事業才適用這第一個第二個就是那個實收出資額的門檻我們因為我們本來是有3億現在降到1億了"},{"start":22919.983,"end":22938.676,"text":"那我1.5億那我們現在是建議是說因為我們這個都有去去試算有啦 而且經過我的討論你沒有跟我說明我了解啦現在是說這一部分是不是我們我確認說你們有沒有跟這是我的學生案有沒有跟那個財政部有經過精算你是經的"},{"start":22940.712,"end":22961.37,"text":"包括這個出資額1.5億的部分包括第三年時數出資額還有幾年幾年分年出資的各個比例這個問題都有確定過這個我們都有計算過而且我們也都把因為這個部分是比那個原來的條文寬鬆因為原來是3億那現在降為1.5億那你們也跟我討論過這個都是討論"},{"start":22963.892,"end":22973.898,"text":"我想我可以接受行政院的版本那23條之一我們是不是按照行政院版本通過23條之二"},{"start":22977.165,"end":22994.457,"text":"二三條之後是那個有那個天使投資人的那個現在就是在那個連線我們就說這裡是邱委員提到說未滿五年計算持股兩年那個投資金額減除比例50%所有都減除這個我早上我也諮詢過你我也請教過"},{"start":22997.519,"end":23006.408,"text":"這個最多是八年左右的 新創企業那國外的立法會包括日本 包括英國他們也有到十年的所以這些可以縮短到八年"},{"start":23010.674,"end":23011.815,"text":"那個主席 本席認為說剛剛連次說的說你的點要落點在114年1月1號新創的"},{"start":23032.066,"end":23051.733,"text":"新的新的新的因為跟我們報告就跟前面實質一樣因為有一些改變有一些改變的時候那你這個會斷層可是你之前成立的你現在因為他已經投下去你要再重新試用後面的會有點問題可是這個會有一點問題譬如說我們現在主要就是說113年12月31號到期"},{"start":23058.455,"end":23081.586,"text":"那人家已經做一半的那我們現在目的就是說以往前五年的那有些項目他是沒有的那我們都願意把他納進來那你才說114你要新的那這樣子你會真的會是被公辦而已啊"},{"start":23082.628,"end":23096.525,"text":"不是事半功倍因為比如說我們現在有能力的我講最實際的現在中小企業真的是很辛苦那他現在已經有能力比如說他113年我真的配合你政府的大投資"},{"start":23097.954,"end":23123.864,"text":"那你以往就是因為時間到一個他很多的項目還沒有辦法申請如果你不讓他納入在這個延續我們等於是113年的12月31號到期的我們希望要嫁接過來114年啊到118年啊我們的目的是這樣子嘛那你如果說要114年重新那你會有很多的斷層啊這樣就沒有真的幫助啊"},{"start":23126.645,"end":23152.95,"text":"說明為什麼不會 為什麼沒有斷層11是這樣 因為第一個它的適用範圍不一樣我們到時候因為我們後來新增人工智慧跟節能減碳如果你是把時間往前拉的時候它那時候沒有這個項目所以為什麼我們後來時間你要切清楚就是說你應該是因為以前我們在看是用交貨或是什麼時候購買的"},{"start":23154.55,"end":23174.265,"text":"我們要算年度的投資因為這個是新增的部分所以那個時間點一定要切得一清二楚不然的話前面的人你買的譬如說我本來譬如說你是前兩年投資的但是你的投資期是三年他前面都已經弄完了你後面你這個是不應該去試用的啦所以那個時間是有因為在投資都會有delay的"},{"start":23178.449,"end":23193.426,"text":"但是現在我們還有一個考慮他目前經濟的環境所碰到的中小企業我們實在講有能力做的我想財政部跟經濟部都很清楚"},{"start":23194.977,"end":23208.895,"text":"都很清楚 這一些有一點基礎的我們要怎麼協助他這個嫁接要怎麼樣可以很平順的可以嫁接過來要不然你會變成你要強迫他在114你要重新"},{"start":23210.407,"end":23214.971,"text":"因為我們原來10條之一是在去年底落日嘛就是13年12月31號落日那當時之前它適用的條件是原來的"},{"start":23232.108,"end":23235.774,"text":"原來的範圍所以他原來範圍只要在113年12月31號以前已經訂購的他都可以再繼續試用對那因為我們114年以後是擴大試用範圍擴大試用範圍其實中考期也不會在113年就知道我們擴大試用的範圍是哪些"},{"start":23247.992,"end":23274.79,"text":"所以它一定從14年以後才會新增人工智慧人工智慧跟節能減碳新的項目它就新增的項目就可以使用對 它就可以使用要講清楚因為妳剛剛一直講要新創的公司不是新創公司不是新創公司對啦 是妳要重新來申請這樣就嫁接成功啦要重新來申請對啦 不然妳剛剛一直講新創的公司我是說要怎麼考慮不是 它是要適用新的範圍的話就要重新來申請對"},{"start":23280.727,"end":23283.038,"text":"那個好 你清楚了解嗎 我也會這樣問我聽喔"},{"start":23286.038,"end":23312.543,"text":"這個8年產業環境一直在變化你要孵化的時間一定會越來越長很多5年之內你如果沒有用5年做一個標準的話很多5年之內你就淘汰或者就經營不下去很多所以我覺得應該你進一步你要按照中企署的創新能力新創世界認定原則應該就8年其他低減上限完全中"},{"start":23313.303,"end":23337.325,"text":"我尊重運辦,體檢上不管個人,我尊重你三百萬、五百萬,五百萬是重點,這部分我支持那也不用創投個人股東,或者創投法輪股東,那也沒有關係啦但是對一個新創的支持,年限應該要拉長,因為你按照這個數據來看,成立八年的公司是最多"},{"start":23338.339,"end":23341.962,"text":"因為後面的比較成熟我們是用其他方式在協助他去做發展"},{"start":23349.963,"end":23369.399,"text":"因為剛剛早上也有提到那個國貿會他那邊是從一個是從投資的角度去看一種是從那個新創產業要再往下再延伸的發展的那個情況去看新創要多一點關心時間長久就對我們是好的你那個中企署"},{"start":23370.2,"end":23384.09,"text":"中信署你那個創新能力 新創事業認定跟你們國發基金創新天使不一樣所以我講你經濟部主管的發展你應該標準要一致所以我不是白白講八檔"},{"start":23385.936,"end":23396.679,"text":"我是按照你們中企署的原則我來定8年那其他的這個抵檢上限我不堅持還是一樣是個人300、500因為目前個人是300嘛那你增加個500就是重點國家重點產業啦"},{"start":23408.357,"end":23436.365,"text":"委員我可不可以說明一下為什麼我們覺得五年比較適當的原因因為委員你那個當然新創企業在那個經濟部中央企業署那邊他是認定八年但是因為因為我們這一條文是天使投資的概念天使投資的概念就是希望說你這個公司在剛開始成立之前剛開始草創的時候就能夠吸引一些天使來幫你這些新創事業成長那因為你一般的新創事業如果我們現在給他八年的話會變成"},{"start":23438.146,"end":23466.452,"text":"六到八年的這些新創其實都已經進入成熟期了那會變成說 本來這些天使投資人應該是投資前五年還在發展中的產業那現在會變成如果我們把它放寬到八年的話會變成它的資金會引導到成熟企業去因為大家都知道成熟企業比較會獲利那天使投資人如果說這樣的話會變成扭曲了我們原來目前確定六到八年是已經成熟了嗎對對對對因為如果我們今天把它放寬到六到八年活了過六年就是"},{"start":23467.052,"end":23484.162,"text":"一般到6、8年就是成熟 進入成熟期了那如果說我現在把它放寬會扭曲了我們本來這條的立法目的因為我們本來這條立法目的就是希望它在草創時期 新創時期那你現在已經是兩年了對 所以我們現在放寬到五年了已經參考國發會的年數放寬到五年"},{"start":23489.465,"end":23508.86,"text":"我想我們過去我們希望的那個扶植是說從有階段性的那剛剛所談的也是這樣階段性那是不是我們在這個立法議席裡面要寫跟你們說如果說他今天因為現在擔心的是說萬一在你們扶植的過程他沒有辦法"},{"start":23509.58,"end":23526.09,"text":"有一個比較好的一些知識量還是說他剛剛好在這個階段要往上了結果我們的福祉停了那是不是應該是他要進到哪一個階段在我們哪一個這樣的一個專案的部分其實我們擔心的是這個就是說"},{"start":23527.471,"end":23547.771,"text":"他當然如果在你們五年扶植就可以往上衝那最好這是我們的期待但是如果剛好在五年六年已經到了你的時間但是在第六年他剛好插了一個躍進的過程結果其實跟我們報告中技術他那個新創事業就在做這件事"},{"start":23548.391,"end":23572.929,"text":"所以說是不是在我們的立法議席當中把他寫清楚我們希望這個知青其實是引導在比較前面的這個五年然後後面的我們用透過其他方式再來協助他對就是說因為我們害怕就是說好五年那問題剛剛好在這第五年第六年可能就差那麼一點結果因為我們五年就這樣子game over了"},{"start":23573.729,"end":23598.345,"text":"那完了 有可能他再往下趴的會更快好不容易扶植到這裡了 往下趴的更快所以我覺得立法一直把它寫清楚那這就沒有什麼問題了 好不好好那關於那個低檢上限有沒有什麼意見低檢上限你八年裡面有意見你為什麼不直接就定500呢還要分重點產業"},{"start":23602.763,"end":23631.06,"text":"你行政院如果要給他一些比較提高還是要有一些條件才讓他往上走你那個五百萬虛為國家種民產業嘛對那種民產業是哪些種民產業五大信賴還有那些相關的我們現在正在推的這些你種民產業會不會太籠統太抽象不會啦他有明文哪些產業是種民產業就因為在訂資保的時候會訂得很清楚你如果"},{"start":23632.669,"end":23657.05,"text":"執法的時候因為會讓就希望讓產業很清楚主席的意思是這樣子所以你們在執法的時候類別要把它寫清楚不要只有一個重大 大家都也重大因為那個我們會公告執法要趕快訂好 把它明列清楚那你個人如果把他個人的抵檢上限增加的話會增加他的投資意願"},{"start":23659.424,"end":23684.173,"text":"你說你現在只有五百萬是重點那其他的個人是沒有改如果個人增加到五百萬你提高到五百萬那是不是個人去拿個人的錢去投資的這個意願會增加嗎那個張偉我們生計那邊最好也是跟這個一樣五百你們生計也是啊所以兩邊是我們是建立兩邊是一致的你們生計也是如此嗎"},{"start":23685.441,"end":23712.76,"text":"因為你現在正在燒他什麼時候再招來那邊又會跟我們文創業產業發展法那個部分也是嗎而且那個也是講說我希望要一致啦而且那個文創那一邊也是類別是像這樣行業別是由行政院這邊來公布的我是覺得我很贊同主席所說的就是說我們政府的橫向"},{"start":23713.641,"end":23737.009,"text":"要一樣啦你如果說你的生計也是這樣藝術文化的也這樣什麼都一樣這樣人家才會幸福嘛他會自己去歸軌道歸正確才不會亂掉才不會去做比較主席的意思應該是如此嘛我的解讀是這樣子完全跟楊委員的看法一樣如果八年改成六年也不通啊"},{"start":23741.365,"end":23752.951,"text":"跟我尾巴真的多一年而已嘛是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是"},{"start":23767.278,"end":23769.239,"text":"因為這裡是講那個股東投底我們是建議是說其實在二三之一或是剛剛早上那個"},{"start":23795.972,"end":23819.27,"text":"這個理事長也有提到了其實都有一些你們跟我討論過很多次這個好啦這個我可以接受啦那我們就就不以爭議不以爭議來接下來處理六十七六七沒有提啦六七之一就是那個就配合那個"},{"start":23827.563,"end":23847.388,"text":"那個獎項六七條之一只有院版沒有其他委員的提案那我們就是六七條之一就按照行政院版本通過六七條之二也沒有其他委員只有行政院版本"},{"start":23856.079,"end":23875.735,"text":"6.71是說要配我們前面講的是說在哪個年度裡面他要去申報或是說要有一些申報的程序或是說你申報的時候遇到什麼狀況他可以再展延那如果說沒有據實申報或怎麼樣會有一些罰款這樣子好"},{"start":23878.076,"end":23888.313,"text":"對 對 對 還有申請的期限 什麼情況下他可以很清楚的去把他列入原本在條文裡頭是沒有的嗎有有申請版本有 那你改什麼"},{"start":23894.186,"end":23907.18,"text":"這個跟委員報告 因為我們那個扣繳制度在鎖稅法的扣繳制度在去年修正過就是優化了他的扣繳制度把那個就是有一些如果說他申報的期間剛好碰到過年啊或者是怎樣 我們就延長"},{"start":23911.002,"end":23932.973,"text":"所以這個是配合我們所得稅法那個優化扣繳制度做的所以原本就有的條只是配合你的稅扣的這個改變啦對 只是配合我們所得稅法那邊的修正做修正OK 一致性就好好 那我們67條之一就按照行政法的通過67條之二再說明一下你們要不要稍微說明一下這是那個罰款的問題"},{"start":23934.433,"end":23962.146,"text":"也是一樣那也是配合鎖匯稅法那個鎖匯稅法的扣繳制度的修正跟六十七條是一樣的好那我們是不是六十七條之二就按照行政法通過六十七之三那個是配合那個二十二條那個如果說沒有在我們現在有規定說它一定的金額一定的基數什麼條或是一定的地區如果它有違反這個規定我們有罰則以前是沒有罰則我們現在把它增訂罰則"},{"start":23964.235,"end":23974.349,"text":"這個只有願版這條新政的喔對 按自處新台幣50萬元以上1000萬元以下 法源"},{"start":23977.007,"end":24000.285,"text":"請說明一下好嗎各位報告我們主要是參照我們現在赴大陸投資的處罰是也是處罰五萬元到兩千五百萬那因為這個是赴國外投資所以我們最低差額一樣是五萬元然後最高是到一百但是如果說我們同時會命改正或停止或撤回投資"},{"start":24000.925,"end":24027.979,"text":"如果你不改正停止或撤回投資的話就會把那個往上拉到50到1000那我要請教的是說我們依照那個大陸那個投資的這個都一樣那大陸那個投資的如果停止或撤回投資者他們的條文也是方式也是按次處分嗎金額也是一致嗎大陸投資也是 它是按次一次5萬到2千5副大陸投資的處罰是比較高的"},{"start":24028.439,"end":24044.147,"text":"那我們因為這是付國外所以我們所以你是50萬到1000萬對那這個依據是什麼1000我們也是參考國外的立法例像美國他們也是處罰到35萬美金大概也是1000萬金額好那我們67條之3我們就按照行政院版本新增通過"},{"start":24052.601,"end":24072.363,"text":"70條的部分只有願板願板那個說明一下70條是有在規範是說就是說把那個不得享有同一個事件的那個因為為了補助我們稍微去做一點文字的調整而已文字調整而已"},{"start":24074.009,"end":24101.548,"text":"70條文字調整是內容有調整還是怎麼樣就以前寫的好像沒有那麼清楚我們把那個租稅用獎勵或補助我們把它把租稅優惠這幾個字把它寫得比較清楚沒有本來沒有租稅優惠沒有變沒有變文字調整而已內容沒變嘛內容都沒變講得更清楚一點好第70條按照行政院版本通過好72條這個實行期限"},{"start":24108.236,"end":24129.807,"text":"各位委員的版本都一樣啦都趕快啦那我們就72條我們就按照行政院版本通過72條行政院版本跟各位委員提案的版本通過好 謝謝那請那個議事長們宣讀一下協商結論"},{"start":24141.383,"end":24169.409,"text":"宣讀協商結論第10條維持現行法條文不予修正第10條之一第一項後端支出金額在同一課稅年度內合計達新台幣100萬元以上20億元以下取於均照行政院提案通過及與行政院提案相同的委員提案通過第17條之一不予增訂第22條照行政院提案通過"},{"start":24170.868,"end":24178.734,"text":"附帶決議呢另有一附帶決議 當會處理 第二十三條之一第二十三條之二"},{"start":24180.086,"end":24202.525,"text":"均照行政院提案局委員提案與行政院相同提案通過第23條之4不予增訂第67條之1第67條之2新增第67條之3第70條第72條均照行政院提案局委員提案與行政院相同提案通過宣導完畢好謝謝"},{"start":24204.881,"end":24221.191,"text":"那个附带决议那个那个附带决议的吴立华那个吴立华好"},{"start":24243.079,"end":24256.363,"text":"好,我附帶記憶OK,已經寫完了我看一下市長你看一下"},{"start":24280.155,"end":24286.298,"text":"就說不用放在法律條文修正放在負債決議行政經濟部OK這能夠保障原住民權益的部分"},{"start":24299.225,"end":24312.453,"text":"這是國外來的不是 這個我們是要去國外投資的對啊我們是提醒他說我們要告訴那一國不可以對 要告訴我們我們去告訴他 你不可以讓委員會發言這樣他也不可能違反 人家國家在國外沒有啦"},{"start":24372.304,"end":24396.339,"text":"那個投資主席再去跟五立法委員再說明一下因為附帶協議沒有通過沒有通過沒有附帶協議沒有附帶協議沒有成立也沒有成立好啦好啦那個那個跟好那個"},{"start":24400.526,"end":24404.968,"text":"請問各位同仁 照剛才宣讀的協商決定通過 請問有異議有異議的話通過討論事項 鎖列議案 並按審查完略 凝聚審查報告 提報議員會討論請問需不需要交到黨上協商"},{"start":24420.063,"end":24433.658,"text":"好 不用不須交易廣告協商 因為討論有本席說明通過這條文相關法制用於授權本席及議事人員整理本日所列議程案處理完畢現在 散會"},{"start":24533.209,"end":24534.77,"text":"MING PAO CANADA MANGA"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}