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萬一發生火災"},{"start":159.861,"end":188.512,"text":"都是宣導這些東西還有地方的一些那個那個那個那個憲政啊憲政的文宣在裡面看得很令人乏味啊你千萬有一些歌舞劇啊什麼有沒有在裡面啊千萬大家看了以後坐船也減少壓力嘛是不是你不只翔通啊對我們海上的業者這些翔通的問題能夠解決的話這個問題也解決了我是說你們對第四潭能不能派個人去啊可以的有沒有旅費嘛"},{"start":189.13,"end":218.256,"text":"理費有沒有被刪掉沒有嗎追加之後應該是沒問題追加以後啊我們也沒有刪你啦是幫你凍結嘛當初是有刪掉追加要回三千多萬有嗎單位預算有文宣費記得要少一點啦文宣費我們覺得另外主委你平常在家有看電視嗎有你有看新聞嗎大部分看體育節目啊我大部分看體育節目體育啊"},{"start":219.6,"end":243.179,"text":"你對體育活動很有興趣喔 新聞呢新聞也會看 因為這是大員關心的你身為NCC主委 你應該對什麼詐騙活動啊哪裡被騙 哪裡被騙 都新聞報導啊你體育活動有報導這些東西嗎我們都有關注啦 我們也有簡報 所以詐騙的最新動態我們大概都有充分看過你充分看哪一台啊我都輪著看我都輪著看啊輪著看喔"},{"start":244.554,"end":270.663,"text":"輪著看你們都是罵反對黨的啊 都抬啊多元的社會 這個我是覺得是常態好 我來問你你們跟中天打官司打到現在輸了幾次啊我們確定敗訴七件幾件七件上一次十幾件嘛 怎麼七件啊那是還沒終局裁判的就像打棒球一樣沒有打到九局下半你領先我領先 那個都不算數"},{"start":271.482,"end":292.547,"text":"你們一定要跟國父一樣是不是 十次革命是不是一定打十次才帥是不是現在投降了沒有還不投降打死不退我都想把你們的訴訟費給你刪掉我跟你講你們錢太多了公家的錢不要錢嘛是不是你打一百次也沒關係啊"},{"start":294.465,"end":318.877,"text":"行政機關的立場是如果我們當初的我們認為當初的裁判判決的裁處適合我們也必須要去處理一下所以中天關台的事件對全國民眾而言我覺得至少有一半人反彈你知道嗎至少有一半人反彈你為什麼把它關掉到現在去找中天要找第四台才找得到中天"},{"start":319.704,"end":347.825,"text":"很多人透過第四台或是靠網路來看中天你知道嗎這麼重要的一個新聞媒體你們把它關掉你們要對歷史負責是不是隨便把一個媒體關掉你看其他的媒體我一直跟你們講有一些節目把它淨化國內這樣子內鬥內鬥那麼嚴重然後火上再加油是不是在電視上鬥在媒體上鬥"},{"start":349.582,"end":376.031,"text":"這對國內不是好事耶當然我也不見得講給你聽我也講給卓院長跟賴總統聽是不是內憂外患內憂外患在台灣很多人都去找第二祖國了你知道嗎有錢人都跑掉了很多退休人都在馬來西亞在新加坡在其他地方泰國尤其泰國購房地產很多怕什麼 怕戰爭嘛 是不是"},{"start":377.335,"end":399.725,"text":"所以你們媒體不要在火上加油嘛好的節目弄一些你多補助一些好的製作費給人家嘛不是那邊把錢給媒體文宣費給他在那邊罵每天在那邊罵誰聽啊現在人腦袋都很聰明啊你知道嗎補助最快大概是產業輔導機關文化部現在自主性都很強你們打了7次你們現在還要繼續打下去嗎"},{"start":402.629,"end":428.138,"text":"這部分我們會就相關的機關的立場要維護還是要維護要不然監察院也會來追究我們的責任監察院追究你什麼責任就是如果說我們的處分相關的我們沒有去defend的話相對應的應該會有相應的被要求的處理要求你什麼 監察院有什麼作為我到現在沒有看到監察院有什麼很大的作為出來"},{"start":429.349,"end":457.323,"text":"是不是 監察院是一個打老虎的機關啊應該是包青天啊 現在不是這樣子嘛我們大家都知道心知肚明啊現在老百姓很聰明啊他自己有他獨立自主的一個研判不是說你新聞講什麼就是什麼你看東南部 很多東西你都不播我們每年都辦理這個長波媒體素養培力相關的一些持續有帶這個普及人心讓大家素養提升"},{"start":459.366,"end":476.352,"text":"打詐的事情我暫時這個仗還不算在你頭上我想這是抒發部他要負起主導的責任他要負起主導的責任這個最大的問題還不在你們我們機關機關會互相協力但是你們要互相把資訊要提供給"},{"start":477.301,"end":506.62,"text":"有警政署啦 是不是還有書發部啦 媒整部啦你們都要主動橫向聯繫嘛 是不是都會有 行政院打下指揮中心是做個統合協調的中天有赴台的機會嗎看法院的判決法院 法院判你們輸啦 還法院判決判一判二 最後要大法官來解釋嗎沒有 目前是發回台北高行跟審沒關係 你們這樣講齁我個人立場我不同意齁NC委員我一個都不同意"},{"start":507.273,"end":531.83,"text":"我一個都不同意還有大法官我也一個不同意我覺得不公正嘛對不對你要講公理志在人心啊是不是有啊 本黨委員也跟我講啊誰誰誰還不錯啊不錯一進去以後啊就同流了你知道嗎馬上就同流了我覺得主委你站在這個新聞立場的自由啊以前講黨政軍不介入媒體你覺得現在黨政軍有沒有介入媒體"},{"start":533.252,"end":556.581,"text":"因為現在媒體其實都是都事先都不會審查都是事後有民眾檢舉來依法處理那也涉及到多元價值判斷那釋制第509其實也有說媒體的言論自由其實法律上也要加以一個適度的一些限制所以我想全國民眾大概都是知道有這種情況之下那也會知道說會啦以前啦"},{"start":558.201,"end":585.594,"text":"國民黨執政的時候那些領導者有時候笨笨呆呆的你知道嗎黨政經退出媒體講得是很好聽確實不錯啊黨政經確實應該退出媒體現在呢全面介入啊不但介入連政府把錢還丟進去這是不好的事情啊我這個人不是一個幸災樂禍的人我也沒有當上哪個黨派來想我站在一個人啊人啊要有個中心思想要有思考"},{"start":586.84,"end":614.662,"text":"你要辨別是非的能力 這個大家都有的啦所以你不要以為現在 現在人很聰明欸你不要看這些年輕人他腦袋很清楚欸是不是 你不要想去騙他們這也是詐騙欸 你知道嗎這也是詐騙欸 你看媒體在亂講嘛沒有的事情把它說成有那如果有違反事實查證 我們都會來一番查證 等你查證完那個人已經完蛋 報銷啦 你知道嗎那其實衛光法45條其實有一些救濟的一些權利來機制來處理"},{"start":616.601,"end":640.109,"text":"好啦我想這個也不是你能力能夠處理的啦但是你中間的部分你可以處理啊是不是你可以的話你可以跟中間合一和解啊或是幹什麼的啊合一和解重大案件要委員會議來討論什麼會議委員會議委員喔嘿嘿再給你上來一個委員你們能夠開會的話我告訴你把TVBS也會關掉遲早的事你看好了好不好謝謝謝謝委員"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":462,"blocks":[["陳委員雪生：（10時52分）謝謝主席。請陳主委。"],["主席：陳主委。"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：委員好。"],["陳委員雪生：主委早。民眾網購二部以下的自用第二級的電信管制射頻器材進口核准，NCC說今年2月份起要新增審查費，大概750元，也就是當初我講的750之亂，現在一年馬上要過去了，明年呢？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：跟委員報告，我們其實都有在檢討，既然法規是要有社會共識，有關這一塊，當然外界的反應會當作我們未來修訂這個辦法的一些重要參據，所以這一定是會跟最新外面的反應，跟國會、大院一些相關的……"],["陳委員雪生：主委，你初步的想法，會不會繼續要開徵這個錢？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：目前我們的想法、討論，這一塊是不會。"],["陳委員雪生：不要吧！因為這錢也沒多少，引起民怨幹嘛呢？","第二個，本席上一次質詢的時候關心到，因為現在物價都上漲，我要你們輔導地區第四臺業者，關於推廣地方文化節目製播費，你們有去輔導嗎？你不是說祥通那邊沒有申請嘛！對不對？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：對，他……"],["陳委員雪生：沒有申請，你要去問他、去輔導他。"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：有，我們……"],["陳委員雪生：金門、澎湖都有了，離島偏鄉什麼的，這個要重視啊！"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：對，我們都有跟他講，那一塊普及服務淨成本，現在是可以補助180萬，過去是120萬，離島的澎湖、金馬，我們都有跟他們講，那曹老闆這邊，他有他的考量，我們跟他說沒關係，這部分我們可以把相關的一些參考範本給他參考來作為申請，他說他會考慮，但是始終沒有提出來。"],["陳委員雪生：沒有提出來？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：對，他沒有來提出申請。"],["陳委員雪生：你們有派人去輔導嗎？去看一看嘛！派個人去馬祖看一下，一定要等考察的時候去看嗎？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：我們目前是電話、email好幾次溝通，如果……"],["陳委員雪生：不是，你要輔導他！"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：有、有。"],["陳委員雪生：大概需要的費用是多少，我們NCC能夠給人家怎麼樣的協助跟指導，你告訴他嘛！不然的話，沒有進步，你看我們現在小三通的船，上面播的都是什麼？怎麼樣逃生、哪一個門幹什麼、萬一發生火災等等，都是宣導這些東西，還有地方的一些縣政文宣在裡面，看得很令人乏味，你起碼有一些歌舞劇什麼的在裡面，起碼大家看了以後，坐船也減少壓力嘛！是不是？也不只祥通，對我們這些海上的業者，祥通的問題能夠解決的話，這個問題也解決了。我是說你們對第四臺能不能派個人去啊？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：可以的，我請同仁去……"],["陳委員雪生：有沒有旅費嗎？旅費有沒有被刪掉？沒有吧！"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：追加之後應該是沒問題。"],["陳委員雪生：追加以後啊？我們也沒有刪你，是把你凍結嘛！"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：當初是有刪掉，有追加回三千多萬。"],["陳委員雪生：有嗎？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：單位預算有。"],["陳委員雪生：文宣費，記得要少一點啦！我們覺得文宣費……","另外，主委平常在家有看電視嗎？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：有。"],["陳委員雪生：你有看新聞嗎？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：我大部分看體育節目。"],["陳委員雪生：體育喔？你對體育活動很有興趣？新聞呢？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：新聞也會看，因為就是大院關心的……"],["陳委員雪生：你身為NCC主委，什麼詐騙活動、哪裡被騙，都在新聞報導，體育活動有報導這些東西嗎？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：我們都有關注，我們也有簡報，所以詐騙的最新動態，我們大概都有充分掌握。"],["陳委員雪生：你通常看哪一臺？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：我都輪著看。"],["陳委員雪生：輪著看？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：是。"],["陳委員雪生：輪著看，很多都是罵反對黨的，很多臺啊！"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：多元的社會，這個我覺得是常態。"],["陳委員雪生：好，我來問你，你們跟中天打官司打到現在，輸了幾次？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：我們去年敗訴7件。"],["陳委員雪生：幾件？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：7件。"],["陳委員雪生：上一次十幾件嘛！怎麼7件呢？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：那是還沒終局裁判的，就像打棒球一樣，沒有打到九局下半，你領先、我領先，那個都不算數。"],["陳委員雪生：你們一定要跟國父一樣是不是？10次革命，是不是？一定打10次才算，是不是？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：沒有，我現在就是……"],["陳委員雪生：現在投降了沒有？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：沒有，就是……"],["陳委員雪生：還不投降，打死不退？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：業者的救濟權利，我們尊重。"],["陳委員雪生：我都想把你們的訴訟費給刪掉，我跟你講，你們錢太多了，公家的錢不要錢，是不是？你打100次也沒關係啊！"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：行政機關的立場是，我們認為當初的裁處是……也必須要繼續處理下去。"],["陳委員雪生：主委啊，中天關台的事件，對全國民眾而言，我覺得至少有一半的人反彈，你知道嗎？至少有一半的人反彈，你為什麼把它關掉？到現在去找中天，要找第四臺才找得到中天，很多人透過第四臺或是靠網路來看中天，你知道嗎？這麼重要一個新聞媒體，你們把它關掉，你們要對歷史負責，是不是？隨便把一個媒體關掉？你看其他的媒體，我一直跟你們講，有一些節目把它淨化嘛！國內這樣子內鬥，內鬥那麼嚴重，然後火上再加油，是不是？在電視上鬥、在媒體上鬥，這對國內不是好事，當然我也不見得只講給你聽，我也講給卓院長跟賴總統聽，是不是？內憂外患！內憂外患是現在的臺灣，很多人都去找第二祖國了，你知道嗎？有錢人都跑掉了，很多退休的人都在馬來西亞、在新加坡、在泰國、在其他地方，尤其泰國，購房地產的人很多，怕什麼？怕戰爭嘛！所以你們媒體不要再火上加油，弄一些好的節目、你多補助一些製作費給人家，不是那邊把錢給媒體、把文宣費給他們在那邊罵，每天在那邊罵，誰聽啊？現在人腦袋都很聰明，你知道嗎？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：補助這一塊，大概是產業輔導機關文化部……"],["陳委員雪生：現在自主性都很強，你們打了7次，你們現在還要繼續打下去嗎？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：這部分，我們就相關機關的立場要維護的，還是要維護。"],["陳委員雪生：繼續打？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：要不然監察院也會來追究我們的責任。"],["陳委員雪生：監察院追究你什麼責任？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：就是如果我們的處分相關的，我們沒有去defend的話，相對應的，應該會相應被要求要處理。"],["陳委員雪生：要求你什麼？監察院有什麼作為？我到現在沒有看到監察院有什麼很大的作為出來，是不是？監察院是一個打老虎的機關，應該是包青天，但現在不是這樣子嘛！大家都知道，心知肚明，現在老百姓很聰明，自己有自己獨立自主的研判，不是說新聞講什麼就什麼，你看中南部，很多東西都不播，對不對？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：這就是我們每年都要辦理傳播媒體素養培力的相關一些……持續有在普及人心，讓大家的素養提升。"],["陳委員雪生：打詐的事情，暫時這個帳我不算在你NCC頭上，我想數發部要負起主導的責任，是不是？它要負起主導的責任，所以這個最大的問題並不在你們。"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：我們機關間會互相協力。"],["陳委員雪生：但是你們要互相把資訊提供給警政署，是不是？還有數發部、內政部……"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：都有，行政院……"],["陳委員雪生：你們要主動橫向聯繫，是不是？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：都會有，行政院打詐指揮中心會做統合協調的工作，把相關……"],["陳委員雪生：中天有復台的機會嗎？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：要看法院判決。"],["陳委員雪生：法院？法院已經判你們輸了，還法院判決！判一判，最後要大法官來解釋嗎？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：沒有，目前是發回臺北高行更審。"],["陳委員雪生：沒關係，你這樣的講法我個人不同意，NCC委員我一個都不同意，一個都不同意，還有大法官我也一個都不同意，就不公正嘛！對不對？人家講公理自在人心，是不是？有啊！本黨委員也跟我說誰誰誰還不錯，是不錯，但進去以後就同流了，你知道嗎？馬上就同流了。主委，你站在新聞自由的立場，以前講黨政軍不介入媒體，你覺得現在黨政軍有沒有介入媒體？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：現在媒體事先都不會審查，都是事後有民眾檢舉再依法處理。其實這涉及到多元價值判斷，釋字第509號也有說明言論自由在法律上也要加一些適度的限制，全國民眾在這種情況之下，大概也會知道自由是相對應的……"],["陳委員雪生：我跟你講，以前國民黨執政的時候，那些領導者有時候是笨笨呆呆的，你知道嗎？黨政軍退出媒體，講得是很好聽，確實不錯啊！黨政軍確實應該退出媒體，但現在呢？全面介入啊！不但介入，連政府都把錢丟進去，這是不好的事情。"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：我們都知道……"],["陳委員雪生：我不是一個幸災樂禍的人，我也沒有要站在哪個黨派立場來說話，我就是站在一個人的角度，我覺得人要有中心思想、要有思考、要有辨別是非的能力，這個其實大家都有，所以你不要以為……現在人都很聰明，你不要看這些年輕人，他們的腦袋都很清楚，是不是？你不要想去騙他們，這也是詐騙，你知道嗎？這也是詐騙，媒體都亂講嘛！沒有的事情把它說成有。"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：如果有違反事實查證，我們都會依法處理。"],["陳委員雪生：查證？等你查證完，那個人已經完蛋報銷了，你知道嗎？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：衛廣法第四十五條有一些權利救濟的機制來處理。"],["陳委員雪生：好啦！我想這個也不是你能力能夠處理的，但是中天的部分你可以處理，是不是？可以的話，你可以跟中天合意和解或幹什麼啊！"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：合意和解重大案件要委員會議來討論。"],["陳委員雪生：什麼會議？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：委員會議，現在沒有……"],["陳委員雪生：委員喔？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：對。"],["陳委員雪生：嘿、嘿，再給你們上來一個委員，你們能夠開會的話，我告訴你，把TVBS關掉是遲早的事，你看好了！好不好？謝謝。"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：謝謝委員。"],["主席：好，謝謝陳雪生委員。"],["主席（陳委員雪生代）：下面請廖先翔委員、召委發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":60,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-23-4","speakers":["洪孟楷","李昆澤","黃健豪","蔡其昌","陳素月","林俊憲","魯明哲","徐富癸","陳雪生","廖先翔","何欣純","賴士葆","黃國昌","邱若華","游顥","葉元之","林國成","許智傑"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-10-27"],"gazette_id":"1149001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1149001_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期交通委員會第4次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請國家通訊傳播委員會代理主任委員陳崇樹列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；二、處理113\n年度中央政府總預算附屬單位預算關於國家通訊傳播委員會主管有線廣播電視事業發展基金專題\n報告案計1案","agenda_id":"1149001_00001"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}