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局長請好 謝謝主席來 委員長你早我先請教一下這個外面一直講而且這個經濟部長也某種程度也承認了我執行過他大概台美關稅20%加N的20加N的疊加"},{"start":29.9,"end":36.962,"text":"這個到現在為止一直是這個所以傳統產業非常辛苦啊你不要看股市每天創新高可是傳統產業苦哈哈的這個五星價的人越來越多那麼外界一直講說這個我們台美關稅要定案也就是說我們政府需要努力的20%降低不要疊加希望20%降到15%不要疊加這樣的一個想法跟做法那外界就一直認為"},{"start":58.987,"end":63.419,"text":"這個要等到川習會之後才 他們定案了 我們才定案"},{"start":64.662,"end":90.1,"text":"或者說中美貿易談判定案以後台美關稅才會定案這個的消息你有沒有掌握基本上因為國安局不是談判的那個團隊那當然還是要以談判團隊對外說法為主我剛也是在用這種方式跟業委員做報告那以我們的了解來講當然是希望在談判過程當中確保國家利益產業利益所以你沒有答案就對了"},{"start":91.081,"end":101.666,"text":"那另外就是以談到15%以下為主要的目標所以你沒有掌握但是我掌握的就是這個樣子那現在來講就問那川喜什麼時候會APEC沒有談這個問題啊要等到明年出的農曆年"},{"start":108.63,"end":123.512,"text":"他們才正式見面等於最壞的情況我們20加N要到那個時候才會改變才有機會改變不過因為委員跟會見應該有很多接觸啦事實上在談判過程當中我們的團隊是一直有跟美方在是啦"},{"start":123.852,"end":131.274,"text":"但是因為政治高一切嘛好 第二個問題這個現在的新的日本的領導人就高市高市早苗他現在說要推動安倍的一致要修改日本的和平憲法這個你們有沒有想過"},{"start":144.717,"end":148.242,"text":"對 他現在大概 徐徐漸進的有沒有推動對 所謂的安保三文件在做調整那修憲的問題在整個總裁選舉以及他的內閣會議當中目前並不是一個議題現在主政黨跟那個維新他們就在推這個啊"},{"start":165.192,"end":187.583,"text":"這個來講 他們的國內也反對 國際也反對喔來又是軍國主義互庇喔這個台灣要有立場目前沒有在他們的政策議題上好 那他提到台灣有事 日本有事有沒有要出兵 有沒有這部分確實是在高市當選自民黨總裁的公開記者會他有提到台灣有事就是日本有事他有沒有講出兵"},{"start":188.544,"end":199.98,"text":"他主要的一個政策立場是在談那個態勢假如台灣發生怎麼樣的緊急事態的話會連動到日本的國家那請問你川普有沒有說過台灣有事美國有事"},{"start":201.451,"end":214.214,"text":"川普有沒有說過這個部分 向委員講的主要是高市他在川普沒有說過這個話喔川普沒有說過這個話喔而且他現在越來 態勢越來越明顯他不願意為國際的一個紛爭出兵喔這裡面好 最後一點啦 我想不過我也 我報告一下因為我時間快到了我們主席對時間很嚴格他自己可以拖很久 別人不可以拖這個"},{"start":227.117,"end":250.686,"text":"來 我們看大陸對於所謂的台獨頑固分子他可以偵查 缺席審判 通緝更有人說這些人只要離開台灣就會被逮捕因為幾乎全世界都跟中國大陸有邦交嘛跟我們有邦交就有十幾個國家其他都有所以只要一出國到他們有邦交都可以透過類似"},{"start":251.986,"end":260.86,"text":"美國透過加拿大為華為的事情去逮捕孟晚舟這樣的模式我就請問你這個事情這個事情"},{"start":263.639,"end":284.404,"text":"會不會發生剛剛林楚瑜委員也在關切跟委員報告一下基本上中共這種所謂的跨境脅迫它是沒有實際的意義的它是在做政策宣示所以國內在討論的時候也不要落入它的這種法律戰心理戰跟輿論戰的架構之下而製造成一個心理恐慌的效果"},{"start":285.425,"end":299.217,"text":"也就是被他列為說他懲罰分子 出國照樣出國不必擔心我剛剛也跟林委員在提醒說到了跟中共真的非常友好或是有司法互助的國家確實要小心我們要提高警覺中共跟美國有司法互助啊"},{"start":300.118,"end":323.685,"text":"那你去美國 基本上我們去美國沒有問題的啊前提是在於親中的這種國家 那比較全球南方國家那要注意有沒有哪些國家會配合到沒有 我要提醒是 不管怎麼樣我們台灣人民 台灣人民代表 要受到我們一定的保護我不知道我們國安局這裡有沒有具體的做法可以保護我們台灣所有的人民 不要受到這樣的干擾"},{"start":325.305,"end":353.158,"text":"對 剛才跟其他委員提到確實要注意到這種被威脅委員在國內境內的人身安全問題那會不會有在地協力者會不會有在地協力者來侵犯他在國外呢在國外的部分我剛才提醒在國內沒有問題 國外啦不要到了跟中共非常緊密友好政治關係緊密的國家那這種國家我們不建議全世界都跟老共有邦交民主理念國家還是最多數的謝謝委員的提醒那明天好像招委會招會"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":350,"blocks":[["賴委員士葆：（10時39分）謝謝主席，以及各位先進。有請國安局蔡局長。"],["主席：請局長。"],["蔡局長明彥：謝謝主席，賴委員早。"],["賴委員士葆：您早！我先請教一下，外面一直講，而且經濟部長某種程度也承認了，我質詢過他，臺美關稅大概是20%加N的疊加，到現在為止一直是這個，所以傳統產業非常辛苦，你不要看股市每天創新高，可是傳統產業苦哈哈，無薪假的人越來越多，外界一直講臺美關稅要定案，也就是我們政府需要努力把20%降低，希望20%降到15%，不要疊加，這樣的想法跟作法，外界一直認為要等到川習會之後，他們定案了，我們才定案，或者說中美貿易談判定案了以後，臺美關稅才會定案，這個消息你有沒有掌握？"],["蔡局長明彥：基本上，因為國安局不是談判團隊，當然還是要以談判團隊對外說法為主，我剛剛也是用這種方式跟葉委員報告，以我們的了解來講，當然是希望在談判過程當中，確保國家利益、產業利益……"],["賴委員士葆：所以你沒有答案就對了，是不是？你不能夠確定？"],["蔡局長明彥：對。另外，就是以談到15%以下為主要的目標。"],["賴委員士葆：所以你沒有掌握，但我掌握的就是這個樣子。現在來講就問川習什麼時候會……APEC沒有談這個問題，要等到明年初的農曆年他們才正式見面，等於最壞的情況是我們20%加N要到那個時候才有機會改變。"],["蔡局長明彥：不過，因為委員跟業界應該有很多接觸，事實上在談判過程當中，我們的團隊一直有跟美方在進行協商，一直都有。"],["賴委員士葆：是啦，但是因為政治高於一切嘛！第二個問題，現在日本新的領導人高市早苗，他現在要推動安倍遺志、要修改日本的和平憲法，你們有沒有掌握？有沒有要推動？"],["蔡局長明彥：對，他現在大概循序漸進的針對安保三文件在做調整，修憲問題在整個總裁選舉以及他的內閣會議當中，目前並不是一個議題。"],["賴委員士葆：現在主政黨跟維新會就在推這個啊！"],["蔡局長明彥：但還沒有推出議題。"],["賴委員士葆：老實講，他們的國內反對，國際也反對，這個來又是軍國主義復辟喔！臺灣又有立場……"],["蔡局長明彥：目前沒有在他們的政策議題上。"],["賴委員士葆：好，他提到「臺灣有事，日本有事」，有沒有要出兵？有沒有？"],["蔡局長明彥：這部分確實是在高市當選自民黨總裁的公開記者會，他有提到臺灣有事就是日本有事……"],["賴委員士葆：但有沒有講出兵？"],["蔡局長明彥：他主要的政策立場是在談態勢，假如臺灣發生怎麼樣的緊急事態的話，會連動到日本的國家安全。"],["賴委員士葆：那請問你川普有沒有說過「臺灣有事，美國有事」？川普有沒有說過？"],["蔡局長明彥：這個部分像委員講的，主要是高市他在政策……"],["賴委員士葆：川普沒有說過這個話喔！而且他現在態勢越來越明顯，他不願意為國際紛爭出兵。最後一點，我想……"],["蔡局長明彥：不過委員，我報告一下……"],["賴委員士葆：不、不！因為我的時間快到了，我們主席對時間很嚴格，自己可以拖很久，別人都不可以拖。我們看到大陸對於所謂的臺獨頑固分子，他可以偵查、缺席審判、通緝，更有人說這些人離開臺灣就會被逮捕，因為幾乎全世界都跟中國大陸有邦交，跟我們有邦交的只有十幾個國家，其他的都有跟他們邦交，所以只要一出國到他們有邦交的國家，都可以透過類似美國透過加拿大為華為的事情去逮捕孟晚舟的模式，我就請問你，這種事情會不會發生？"],["蔡局長明彥：剛剛林楚茵委員也在關切，跟委員報告一下，基本上，中共這種所謂的跨境脅迫是沒有實際意義的，他是在做政策宣示，所以國內在討論的時候，也不要落入他這種法律戰、心理戰跟輿論戰的架構之下，而造成心理恐慌的效果，我想我們不是一個……"],["賴委員士葆：也就是被他列為懲罰分子也不用擔心，出國就照樣出國，不必擔心，對不對？"],["蔡局長明彥：我剛剛也跟林委員提醒，當到了跟中共真的非常友好或是有司法互助的國家確實要小心，我們要提高警覺。"],["賴委員士葆：可是中共跟美國也有司法互助啊！"],["蔡局長明彥：對，那必須要友好……"],["賴委員士葆：基本上，我去美國沒有問題的啊？"],["蔡局長明彥：前提是在於親中的這種國家，比較是全球南方國家，那要注意有沒有哪些國家會配合到……"],["賴委員士葆：沒有，我要提醒的是不管怎麼樣，臺灣人民、臺灣民意代表要受到一定的保護啦！"],["蔡局長明彥：是，當然。"],["賴委員士葆：我不知道國安局有沒有具體的做法可以保護臺灣所有人民不要受到這樣的干擾，有沒有做法？"],["蔡局長明彥：有，剛才也跟其他委員提到確實要注意這種被威脅的委員在國內境內的人身安全問題，會不會有在地協力者來侵犯他……"],["賴委員士葆：不是，那在國外呢？"],["蔡局長明彥：第二個，在國外的部分，我剛剛也提醒要提高警覺……"],["賴委員士葆：在國內沒有問題，是在國外啦！"],["蔡局長明彥：不要到了跟中共非常緊密友好、政治關係緊密的國家，那種國家我們不建議前往。"],["賴委員士葆：全世界都跟老共有邦交啦！大部分都有邦交。"],["蔡局長明彥：沒有、沒有，民主理念國家還是最多數的，謝謝委員的提醒，明天好像召委也會召會……"],["賴委員士葆：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝，請回。","接下來進行詢答的是郭昱晴委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":278,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-35-9","speakers":["王定宇","陳永康","羅美玲","陳俊宇","林楚茵","馬文君","徐巧芯","謝龍介","葉元之","賴士葆","郭昱晴","邱志偉","黃仁","沈伯洋","林憶君","陳冠廷"],"page_start":245,"meetingDate":["2025-10-29"],"gazette_id":"1148901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148901_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第9次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國家安全局報告「近期東亞情勢變化對我國影響之研析」，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1148901_00005"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}