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派車前尚需承辦人到院辦理審核作業"},{"start":2006.65,"end":2021.3,"text":"因此會衍生不必要的困擾及安全問題故請研議在科技技術下除上班日可行動上網派車線上審核外非上班日亦可透過網路完成審核免卻人員返返的舟車勞論並維持其人身安全決議請總務處研議宣讀完畢好請問有沒有錯誤或者疑惑的地方"},{"start":2041.103,"end":2049.831,"text":"報告事項二本月一百一三年度預算執行情形報告截至整理期間一百一四年一月八日子請主計處的許處長進將來報告"},{"start":2062.728,"end":2086.768,"text":"主席各位委員大家好以下緊就立法院113年度12月份截至整理期間114年1月8日止預算執行情形報告本院為國家最高立法機關為持續推展運務各項經費收支均因實際需要按相關規定核實辦理以有效支援委員議案審查工作"},{"start":2087.569,"end":2101.339,"text":"有關113年度12月份截至整理期間114年1月8日止預算執行情形請詳附表1概況表附表2明細表緊究稅務類經費類項目重點內容說明如後"},{"start":2105.221,"end":2125.147,"text":"1.税入类113年度税入类预算共编列10713000元截至整理期间114年1月8日止累计实收数13802000元包括罚款及赔偿收入196000元财产收入10897000元及其他收入279000元"},{"start":2131.149,"end":2158.586,"text":"二经费类113年度经费类即区分一般行政委员问证等9个业务计划共编列预算含第二预备金36亿7063万3000元截至整理期间114年1月8日止累计实质数32亿3702万5000元执行率88.26%主要区分下列三大项目"},{"start":2159.426,"end":2176.561,"text":"一 委員問政專項經費 本項目包括委員稅費及公費 公費助理 國會交流事務委員會館 問政相關業務及黨團補助等六個工作計畫項目公編業委員 問政及選民服務等相關經費14億69359000元"},{"start":2180.905,"end":2189.075,"text":"截至整理期间114年1月8日止累计实质数14亿140亿万元执行率95.38%"},{"start":2192.301,"end":2203.091,"text":"主要包括委員稅工費及選民服務費公費助理酬金及加班費等人事費11億9781萬6千元委員研究室、住宿會館水電通訊費團體保險、辦公事務費、交通費及國會交流等業務費1億9006萬4千元黨團補助費1353萬元"},{"start":2219.085,"end":2234.551,"text":"二、議事行政支援經費本項目包括一般行政、議事業務、立法諮詢業務、國會圖書業務、公報業務及第一類金等六個工作計畫項目共編列議事行政支援及"},{"start":2235.191,"end":2241.093,"text":"職工人員維持等相關經費19億9512萬4千元截至整理期間114年1月8日止累計實質數17億6250萬1千元執行率88.47%主要包括職工信奉保險及退休儲金等人事費12億4090萬1千元運區水電通訊費"},{"start":2261.32,"end":2266.623,"text":"資訊服務費、辦公房設計、公務車輛養護、國會頻道委託轉播等業務費4億7,990萬2千元國會圖書資料庫購置等設備費4千萬5千元退休職工三節慰問金及年節特別照護金等獎補助費169萬3千元"},{"start":2284.801,"end":2309.172,"text":"三、一般建築及設備經費,本項目包括營建工程、交通及運輸設備及其他設備等三個工作計畫項目共編列2億615萬元,包括本院委員駐社會管整修、委員公用車輛汰換各項資訊應用系統開發及軟硬體設備構置、汰換數位影音儲存資料庫及數位印刷機等案"},{"start":2309.932,"end":2334.88,"text":"截至整理期间114年1月8日之累计实质数7311万4000元执行率35.47%主要系113年度无线网络系统更新案等案已完成验收课证赶办相关请款作业令委员住宿会馆整修工程案正积极办理中致影响预算执行进度"},{"start":2337.061,"end":2361.05,"text":"3.結與以上系本院113年度12月份截至整理期間114年1月8日日這預算執行情形均依業務實際需要及規定程序本準決原則 核實檢討辦理整體預算執行上稱正常僅就重點內容2要報告 敬請指教 謝謝好 我們現在先歡迎林倩琦林委員到現場來"},{"start":2378.356,"end":2391.446,"text":"我們就決定大家對許處長剛剛報告沒有意見我們決定立法院113年度節制整理期間114年1月8號指預算執行情形的報告準以被查臨時動議好 請問大家有沒有臨時動議來來來 先讓一下我們的環境媒會到現場來知道該來 知道意思愛護沒問題 好來"},{"start":2407.401,"end":2411.844,"text":"像主席各位委員還有各位這個立法院的秘書長各處的處長們大家好我在這裡呢我今天有好幾個臨時提案喔那麼首先呢我想講的第一個提案呢就是有關於"},{"start":2435.819,"end":2453.473,"text":"在院內因為立法委員所造成的這個院內的各項設施的破壞那麼到目前為止我其實沒有看到立法院對於就是在議場上面所造成的這些破壞維修費用到底是多少我覺得這個資訊應該要公開讓民眾知道那麼在從今年以來從去年這個上個會期到這個會期連續兩個會期"},{"start":2464.201,"end":2485.837,"text":"其实因为立法院的意识攻防非常的激烈所以有一些委员其实他们的不当措施主要大概也都是民进党委员那么造成了我们现在很多的这个公务的破坏那甚至在上次去年的上个年度12月20号当天又把议场封锁然后点三秒交"},{"start":2491.396,"end":2507.001,"text":"椅子各方面也都捆绑造成种种的公务的破坏那么我认为说立法院应该要将这些财产的损坏衍生的"},{"start":2512.395,"end":2530.836,"text":"修繕费用应该要公布要让我们民众都知道为了这样子的一时攻防然后造成我们的议场被破坏而必须由人民的纳税钱到底要支付多少的钱"},{"start":2532.321,"end":2559.207,"text":"去做赔偿那这个部分的话应该要清清楚楚的列出各项破坏院内设施的彩彩金单以及修缮费用那同时应该要对破坏的人来加以求偿不管是立法委员或是助理们都一样那我认为这应该要建立起立法院的一个重要的规则否则很多的民众都"},{"start":2560.609,"end":2565.735,"text":"很不滿我們一場在這個立法院有這樣的一個公務破壞的一個狀況這是第一個提案我可以繼續把我的提案都都一併報告嗎還是說報告然後我們再主案一個一個來處理好不好好的"},{"start":2575.987,"end":2590.624,"text":"好那我就再讲第二个提案第二个提案呢是我发现在本院呢开会的时候啊不管是在院会或者是在委员会公听会的场合其实都会有很多的助理会测录立法委员的手机"},{"start":2591.665,"end":2618.26,"text":"这其实并不好那么尤其在议场还会有从二楼往下面俯拍立法委员的手机这样其实已经是严重侵犯个人隐私而且有的时候在委员会开会的时候其实也会有不同政党的委员的助理就是拍委员的画面那么这个其实也已经侵犯到委员的肖像权"},{"start":2620.114,"end":2634.529,"text":"那么这个地方我认为立法院应该要提出一个方案如何禁止立法委员或是其他的人士这样子去测拍立法委员的手机萤幕"},{"start":2635.79,"end":2660.836,"text":"这个我想这个不分男女这个基本上大家都认为其实个人的隐私是很重要的而且重要是说这样子的一个拍摄行为并不是为了意识或是公益目的而是基于就是恶意的这个政治斗争的这样目的那么所以本席认为为了维护意识的程序应该要禁止这样的行为"},{"start":2662.562,"end":2683.372,"text":"那么邀请立法院可能要研拟这个相关的规范禁止这样的这个恶行好那第三个案子其实我记得我在上次的会议里面我有提出就是说希望能够改善立法院的投票章能够改为连续章我后来有这个建议知道就是"},{"start":2684.844,"end":2709.049,"text":"总共书这边好像已经也有提出来所以可以用不同的章来代替那么希望说能够在下个会期我们就可以先尝试使用对现在的这个章确实是盖下去的时候它这个圈圈不是很完整一半那么这个地方的话要请立法院再积极的去改善投票章那么第四个案子"},{"start":2714.366,"end":2735.761,"text":"就是呢 也是因為我香港小玲抱歉 我先插一下你第四個就結束了嘛 要不要第五還有第五個 第六個好 那先停一下 我們先切一半好不好因為你提的都是大災問 太重要了好不好來 那我們先來處理第一個案子那個公務被破壞秘書 你要先說 還是請總務處總事你先說一下 來"},{"start":2744.179,"end":2748.26,"text":"主席、各位委員,剛剛翁委員垂詢事項,經過我們的統計,本屆歷次的會議包含議場跟群憲樓的損壞情形,因為議事攻防下,目前統計回損的金額大概57萬左右。"},{"start":2767.365,"end":2772.73,"text":"這一屆以來,因為過去處理的情況,現場的意識衝突比較混亂,比較難確定是由何者來破壞所以在以前的巡禮下,過去好幾屆以來都有求償的動作,最後也通通都賠了"},{"start":2788.484,"end":2804.537,"text":"目前沒有這個黨團或個人欠款那所以這一次如果要來進行求償的動作的話是建議說還是要協商去確定這個比例跟金額那我們就會依例來向黨團或個人來提出以上"},{"start":2807.011,"end":2832.668,"text":"等一下,我先問一下,廖處長你先,馬上就來所以混亂如果沒辦法找到確定破壞的人就沒辦法,這是第一,對不對第二個如果可以確定是哪個人破壞的,你說很明顯的如果人是,立委是很明顯,這是可以追究的嗎?可以,他們以前會不會還?在過去以前多年來最後球場都有還那個,立法院的胡志年家,會還嘛對不對?以前的經驗是會還嗎?"},{"start":2838.208,"end":2858.253,"text":"很抱歉,我總知道是因為大概這兩屆因為我不在,但是好像上屆是有黨團是有還錢的,有記錄的我們是要黨團還還是要立法委員還,以前是立法委員,我們按慣例來做就不會有爭議了好不好"},{"start":2859.053,"end":2873.988,"text":"因為老實講不曉得哪一個黨弄壞的都有可能可是我們把標準定下來所以我剛剛問的第一個如果是混亂當然就沒辦法嘛對不對那如果是很明確是哪一個人那就是依照慣例來處理例如說可能是黨團要賠國民黨弄壞是國民黨賠嘛民眾黨弄壞是民眾黨賠嘛民進黨弄壞是民進黨到底是黨團來賠還是個人"},{"start":2878.873,"end":2906.012,"text":"主席可不可以請處長把過去幾屆如果有這樣的狀況那是怎麼樣的處理方式能夠先說明一下嗎你今天有總司你今天有帶來嗎資料需要再整理一下不過就過去的狀況包含從第八屆以來的資料看起來如果是委員的部分都是以黨團為對象那過去包含國民黨團實力通通都有求長那也都已經攪了"},{"start":2907.273,"end":2917.822,"text":"好 都講了 是還是說今天我們是不是等到下一次開會的時候盤整剛剛所有資料嘛歷屆是怎麼處理的我們比較好做出一個接下來要怎麼處理的依據啦 好不好"},{"start":2919.605,"end":2941.681,"text":"我們抱歉抱歉,雅琳講的也是一個方法就是總務處,總之你把這兩個會期,這兩個會期拿些破壞掉的然後把它列出來,然後下次我們就來進一步討論不過原則我們今天可以定啦,就小玲提案了我們今天可以定,就是依照往例來做好不好那照往例就是不是破壞那個人,是那個黨團要賠啦黨團要賠,是不是這樣?對齁?這樣好,來小玲"},{"start":2945.484,"end":2950.968,"text":"好 那麼因為剛剛處長講說你們沒有辦法去確定到底是哪些委員破壞的嘛那我想我們這裡都有很清楚的一些事證所以處長這裡需要的話我們可以提供給你那我認為說還是必須要把相關的這個事實要清楚的揭露到底是哪個委員破壞什麼公務 譬如說"},{"start":2970.864,"end":2981.256,"text":"這個莊立雄委員拿了這個鋼杯砸桌面民進黨右委員然後去破壞窗戶我想這個剛剛已經有裁釋了嘛就是依據過去的慣例請尊重我的發言我還沒有講完請尊重我的發言"},{"start":2988.415,"end":3014.654,"text":"对要把这些行为哪个委员做哪些事情至少要有清楚的这个做摘要说明然后以及他所造成的这个破坏是多少钱那最后到底是要向委员酋长还是向委员所属的党团酋长那我认为我这也尊重可以依据过去的惯例来处理但是这个事情很重要这个必须要资讯公开揭露"},{"start":3015.495,"end":3023.847,"text":"那麼看事之後可以把相關的訊息是PO在立法院的網頁上這是應該要可受民眾公平的事情抱歉小林又提了一個新的點我們可以那個公開揭露要在哪邊"},{"start":3030.871,"end":3056.753,"text":"不好意思喔 我覺得這個可能還是要回到過去往歷怎麼處理的吧我們應該先看一下過去的資料比較好討論嘛因為不然這樣直接做財事的話我想可能也破壞了慣例啦我們是不是可以等到總務處這邊整理了相關資訊以及過去怎麼處理的方式我們比較好在這個機制上面是不是要再改進還是要怎麼做調整可能會比較公正啦我們這樣子啦 我先 我先 我就說老實講我們這樣討論下來就是有三個點啦有三個點一個就是"},{"start":3058.676,"end":3072.312,"text":"黨團負責賠償這個是照慣例我們已經今天做成一個結議了嘛 對不對那第二個今天小玲提了一個新的點到底要不要公開揭露在什麼地方揭露這等一下可能要稍微討論一下那第三個事實上也算是有結論了"},{"start":3074.721,"end":3095.334,"text":"那個總司令那邊要去處理 你是要清楚把它列出來是哪一個事件 什麼地方被破壞了是哪一個人這樣子 好不好那這個在下會期 就是雅琳剛剛講的我覺得到底要不要公開揭露 應該還是要依循慣例之後我們才能夠做採取啦 對對對來來來 不好意思 不好意思 雅琳提這個很好依照慣例以前的公開揭露是怎麼做"},{"start":3097.179,"end":3122.059,"text":"報告以前歷次的情況都是直接發文到黨團然後就是向黨團求償來來來抱歉各位委員大概這個可能我要這樣說明因為這一次的預算大概黃國昌委員有提一個案大概也好像總務處已經有我的這個函給委員會"},{"start":3125.542,"end":3139.691,"text":"關於公務的破壞大概透過黨論協商再來處理大概是這樣的情形大概有一個文大概有內部的情況總務處當時怎麼樣讓委員了解可能會比較好一點因為有一個提案雖然現在還沒過但是已經有初步有做一個處理給委員會了"},{"start":3154.922,"end":3155.122,"text":"我有簽過給委員會總是有一個問題"},{"start":3161.051,"end":3187.134,"text":"因為有一個提案就是在我們的預算立法院的預算在事後是委員會審查的時候由委員有提案我們也做了一個決議做了一個決議已經有發文給委員會那委員會我初步了解是希望透過協商對於公務的這一個回審的制度有一個情形但是我想總務處把當時的函給各位了解一下"},{"start":3188.074,"end":3208.501,"text":"因為這個案還沒過嘛 因為預算還沒過嘛但是有這一個委員有曾經提過公務的賠償的情形麻煩可以請主席公平一點 我已經舉手很久了耶是不是應該按照舉手的順序 然後來發言 可以嗎恭喜在我鴨皮裡顧啦"},{"start":3210.382,"end":3216.904,"text":"主席 大家互相不要這樣美會講完以後回到小禮在亞臨主席 大家好 秘書長 我覺得說做不對的 要去公務的錢賠償 我都沒有意見啦其實我覺得說 當事期間有時候我男朋友說那麼簡單的 不能想什麼大事"},{"start":3239.289,"end":3244.711,"text":"因為在你迫害公務衛生 說實在啦 電視後做什麼後做不用說什麼要去做的公開 它已經在電視台的譴責當中了啦跟你們說每一個檔 它的迫害本來你們的迫害就是要去賠錢啦跟剛才秘書長說的 我們都尊重"},{"start":3265.905,"end":3271.007,"text":"提議的人看破壞後有錢要怎麼補償 剛才剛才主席就說我們移動的去補償 但我是覺得說因為我男子漢會覺得說雖然沒有工廠 但我們也有一個心愛 我們的所有地方要有這個地方 所以有時候這樣"},{"start":3290.194,"end":3293.156,"text":"背上再說什麼的時候,我覺得我坐在這裡很辛苦因為大家想起的時候,都會發生什麼事情背上也是一種對應、一種觸犯啦跟你們說再衝下去的時候,我這麼簡單的見解,我會覺得"},{"start":3311.249,"end":3314.853,"text":"這次的完事會越來越大,我覺得還不好因為我尊重大家的意見,每一個有每一個的看法和想法因為我可能,所以我的意見是覺得不用做到這樣,如果你們不對"},{"start":3330.128,"end":3333.729,"text":"跟你們說話,他們那一棟的,叫他們要來錄影,如果不想來錄影,你如果公開說跟他們破壞公務,跟他們這棟的不來錄影,你如果公開,這是應該的譴責啦跟他們一樣說不對,一樣發聲,不用讓我們這些人說起來也很辛苦啦醫生,抱歉啦,跟我都尊重大家的說,謝謝大家,謝謝"},{"start":3363.166,"end":3369.428,"text":"我非常同意美惠所講的但是我想我們立法委員作為全國民眾的表率在議事"},{"start":3376.956,"end":3393.185,"text":"議場當中的行為還是應該要接受監督而且在這幾次的衝突當中呢那麼確實其實也造成了社會上面對於立法院的這個行為表現有非常惡劣的一個批判那麼"},{"start":3394.005,"end":3416.94,"text":"特别是造成了很多的公务的回损的这个部分那么我确实认为从我之前没有进立法院之前我只是一般普通的民众我常常就想说为什么我们人民的纳税钱要为一些立法委员们这个错误恶劣的行为去帮他们负损害赔偿之类我觉得这是不公平的对那再话说回来我想人民应该也有知的权益"},{"start":3418.081,"end":3437.519,"text":"知的权利应该我们所有的会议记录都要公开嘛对吧包含像我们今天讨论的事项最后一定要有会议记录公开所以之后如果说是总务所这边已经清楚的这个做成各项公务的损害然后是谁造成的这样的一个列表之后"},{"start":3438.14,"end":3459.933,"text":"本来就是也应该要公开的告诉大家就是公诸于世这样我们才有办法对各个委员来进行监督这是一件很重要的事情那至于就说这赔偿到底是由委员自己的掏腰包还是说党团那我觉得就尊重过去的惯例但是资讯揭露这件事情是非常重要的所以以上"},{"start":3462.99,"end":3475.395,"text":"那雅琳講完之後我們就先處理好不好我想請教一下秘書長剛剛有提到說有委員在司法法制委員會已經提案了當時已經做出了一些初步的結論就是讓黨團來去協商如何來處理這個部分但我覺得這部分是有一個進展"},{"start":3481.417,"end":3492.203,"text":"我們這邊還是希望說因為今天相關的才事我覺得還是要了解因為我們都是第一屆委員那我們還是要了解過去的慣例是怎麼去做所以我建議這是不是可以等到相關資訊出來的時候我們再一併的來做一些討論"},{"start":3501.306,"end":3516.81,"text":"報告各位委員 因為這個提案大概預算結束以後有一個委員提案叫公務的賠償制度這個建立以後 因為我們經費委員本來是只有經費的臨資"},{"start":3519.972,"end":3537.472,"text":"這個制度建立以後當然會跟一定要報告的一定要提出來報告所以是給各位了解說我是跟各位原報是有這個提案在的提案在當然律師處的單位一定依照院會"},{"start":3538.715,"end":3555.696,"text":"我們必須要演繹公務賠償的情況,我們總務處希望這個制度提出來以後還要透過協商,大概都同意,那我們才會去處理"},{"start":3561.175,"end":3570.043,"text":"秘書長提這個很重要,因為司法跟法制委員會這個案子已經提出來,而且到院會他會做一個處理對我們今天經濟機會委員會來講也是很重要的,我們今天就是按照慣例來處理"},{"start":3578.47,"end":3593.59,"text":"所謂慣例來處理就是用黨團去賠償這應該是往這個方向走對不對然後第二個就是還是要請那個總製你這邊你還是把它名列列出來下次會議的時候就做到我們剛剛委員要求的讓你知道說到底是公務被破壞了多嚴重然後是誰去"},{"start":3595.192,"end":3607.251,"text":"造成破壞的,這個你要給我們一份報告,好不好那這個案子我們就先這樣,因為這個決定到後來會變成是到院會去,好不好今天很謝謝,今天秘書長在來,秘書長趕快說這個原理,所以我們也清楚到院會去處理可是我們這邊我們做剛剛這兩個決定"},{"start":3611.206,"end":3611.226,"text":"黃國昌議員"},{"start":3632.299,"end":3640.898,"text":"清楚呈現然後誰造成的破壞 這要列表就是下一次提上來給我們 下一次的時候就要做好報告"},{"start":3645.233,"end":3670.327,"text":"我想請教一下因為剛剛講的那個我想確認一件剛剛講的那個意思我怕我理解不正確啦就是說因為之前列表有些時候剛剛總務處長是有講到說有時候並不能夠清晰的去判定嘛那在過去的狀況之下沒有辦法判定是誰哪個黨破壞的時候那過去的慣例會寫出這個人嗎因為剛剛講說是要把人名列出來可是這是剛剛他講的存在的一個狀況嘛"},{"start":3672.288,"end":3687.768,"text":"以前是怎麼樣?如果人很清楚名字應該會出現,如果沒有的話就不寫嘛,對不對?還是要依照那個現場...對,我覺得判例到底是什麼?因為到底有沒有把人名寫出來,這我不是非常不清楚的耶以前的做法就是直接發文到黨團,然後不會特別凸顯"},{"start":3690.519,"end":3715.144,"text":"所以應該還是回到慣例嘛所以不會特別凸顯是誰嘛那個宇甄謝謝主席我想這個部分當然如果沒有辦法判定的話當然就是也給黨團但是如果有很明顯的知道是某位委員他其實有破壞公務這樣的嫌疑我是覺得應該也是要把這個相關的資訊能夠揭露出來讓我們了解"},{"start":3715.524,"end":3741.058,"text":"那到時候再依據主席這邊的這個我們的整個委員會的大家的共同的決議再來做決定OK好那這個議題我們就做成決定了好不好因為我們後面還有很多議程好不好我們就把握時間好那就用剛剛這個決定了好那總之記得要列清楚一點好那這個題目我們下次會議再來那第二個是那個有助理在那個應該在二樓吧撤入這個事情這應該比較單純"},{"start":3746.753,"end":3754.112,"text":"對不起在委員會還有在院會的議場二樓那邊都會有這個大家別有共識這個一定要徹底要杜絕啦那現在怎麼做"},{"start":3755.376,"end":3776.83,"text":"就是可能也是請總務處這邊或是駐警隊嗎我來報告,因為大概也不會是總務處啦我覺得一般我舉個例來講,在院會曾經發生過這個側路啊那時候王委員、王洪威委員直接就找到我這邊來那我們工作人員就是要去查"},{"start":3777.951,"end":3802.097,"text":"所以一位助理他有助理他本身的職長在大概所做的這個範圍啦那這策略當然就不可能的事情所以我大概因為委員這樣提啦大概我們可能會責成委員會的工作人員會去注意吧那他要跟主席報告去處理啦我想初步的想法是這樣那當天一位"},{"start":3802.877,"end":3829.684,"text":"異常在管理的時候是找我的時候直接就請我們的會長幹事到澳門就跟那個助理支持他不能再撤入啦是當時有這樣的一個情況發生過好這個事情大家有共識啦不允許再發生啦所以委員會就是我們會要求這個工作人員他會去支持那如果以後再發生二樓那種一樣就是像上次Mew長講的已經有以前的個案了嘛對 都依照以前來叫他們不要再撤入這樣好不好"},{"start":3835.773,"end":3859.204,"text":"我還是建議就是我們在每次在開會的時候一場或是委員會都有工作同仁但是對於助理在後面做些什麼事情或者是說一直拿著這個手機相機然後緊盯著某一個不同政黨的委員拍攝這個其實我都建議工作人員都要去制止我想就是助理合理的去拍他們自己委員的照片我覺得是OK的"},{"start":3859.884,"end":3882.705,"text":"但是如果说是很恶意的去瞄准不同的委员的这样的一个脸去拍他的那个照相对我觉得这是很恶直的这一个可能要请每个委员会跟在议场的工作同仁要适时的要出来要制止不要说是因为什么委员的助理然后又不敢去制止这之后造成争端更麻烦"},{"start":3884.858,"end":3910.983,"text":"沒有問題 那個秘書長這個要貫徹就等於今天的會議要求秘書要求立法院一定要做到這件事情因為這是傷害的是每一個立法委員你要先讓宇甄講一下主席因為其實上一次就是秘書長剛講的網紅委員檢舉的那一件之後這個會期又再發生同一個委員的助理又偷拍我們委員的手機那所以說剛剛秘書長說會制止他嘛"},{"start":3913.764,"end":3936.955,"text":"當他再犯的時候這要怎麼樣來處理我覺得還是要有一個制度啦因為要不然的話其實委員在議場裡面我們行使我們的職務的時候卻要去顧忌到說議場上方可能有人在偷拍我覺得這樣是非常不對的啦那可能請這位MU長這邊能夠看用什麼樣的方式來去規範以上"},{"start":3939.71,"end":3968.096,"text":"就是如果例如說第二次換或第三次換是不是就是要一個什麼限制的方式這個讓秘書長去研究一下好不好我可以一起因為我其實是一樣的問題啦就是說因為其實也會有其他黨的委員嘛的助理嘛可能會帶也是會拍直播嘛也會在現場開直播啊然後去攻擊其他黨委員那我想這應該是要秉公一定的來處理啦不會只有針對某些黨才有安排處理然後其他黨就沒有處理我想這公平性還是要把持啦"},{"start":3969.096,"end":3984.29,"text":"那再來就是說這個連續一樣都是助理約束的問題嘛就是說助理帶了非議場裡面的麥克風這是不是也可以一起處理因為上次在議場的時候有帶大音箱進去嘛那自己個人的麥克風是不是也應該要一併的來處理呢"},{"start":3987.503,"end":4002.204,"text":"這樣好不好 現在變成兩個重點啦就是宇甄剛剛剛才說的如果是第一個原則性就是不能過來測入或者是侵犯這個任何立法院的這個問證這個原則先定下來那如果有發現第二次"},{"start":4003.704,"end":4018.656,"text":"你說助理進來,這是裂範的話那以後是不是就不准他再進到委員會來或者不能再到議場的二樓這是一種那另外剛剛雅琳提的這個一定是公平的啦這個沒有什麼藍綠白,這個沒有只要犯了剛剛講的這兩個"},{"start":4020.507,"end":4041.082,"text":"秘書長我們就請立凡一定要貫徹這個好不好我們研究一下再會做一個通知委員或助理因為剛才張委員又特別提到一個助理因為助理本身他的工作他是有個範疇的因為本來在定如果要回到無法再修的時候"},{"start":4042.063,"end":4067.82,"text":"助理是不能進入委員會的啦當時我訂的時候很嚴啦後來開放就黨團助理就能夠進來啦但慢慢這幾屆一直下來以後助理都我離開回來感覺助理有很多已經在委員會都比委員會的自己的我們的幕僚都還超越啦但我個人在那邊我的觀察啦"},{"start":4068.42,"end":4078.282,"text":"所以給我們有一個研究的空間一下因為那個法條上是助理現在目前是可以到委員會來因為已經把它界定為工作人員"},{"start":4079.62,"end":4098.109,"text":"如果你看過去看了那法條裡面是工作人員是把它放大因為我記得那是王貴仁來找我的時候我把它放大了啦那放大以後就進來就慢慢的而且這兩天我發現助理已經超過我們自己委員會的幕僚的這個範疇我個人的觀察啦我來這十個月的觀察是這樣那法條是規定在那邊啦"},{"start":4102.771,"end":4114.018,"text":"所以那個範疇是怎麼樣大概是有一個我們再來做演繹一下看這個助理到委員會裡面他能夠做什麼張委員講怎麼可以拿那個錄音器來或什麼是不是我們再來做一個演繹一下這個助理到委員會到底他能夠做什麼是給我一點時間再研究一下好不好因為法條規定的工作聯盟的界定本來是有一個範疇的"},{"start":4130.848,"end":4147.614,"text":"那助理本身他的工作也不可能有一個到一個潛越到什麼程度裡面那這個因為有當然這個實務上的一個造成啦好 實務的造成我還不能說出這位委員跟助理間嘛包括這一個主席啊"},{"start":4148.564,"end":4176.568,"text":"主席跟他的黨團的助理之間都有一點可能是非常仰賴他或什麼有些助理都直接跑到這個主席來指揮主席的我發現都有這個現象這個在我以前是不會看到這種現象我感覺是這種現象所以這個要釐清就必須要我們稍微要注意一下給我們一點時間來做研究好不好"},{"start":4178.7,"end":4194.547,"text":"那個我們就照剛剛那個小林的那個提案然後雅玲跟宇甄也提供了一個意見嘛對不對我剛才做了部分的建議那請秘書長就下次會議大概下次會議的時候把提出一個規範出來好不好?下一次會議可以嗎?還是要"},{"start":4196.721,"end":4213.314,"text":"就等於是到了解一下的一個一些他的本人的工作的到這邊的範圍吧我們在修理期間我們來做一個演繹啊然後再提報給各位做參考就下次會議提出來好不好"},{"start":4217.82,"end":4245.897,"text":"謝謝主席我就是針對剛才的部分做一個補充因為兩位委員這邊提的看起來就是整個議場的管理不管是在委員會或者是在院會我在這邊當然是也很附意這樣一個想法基本上我們希望透過一個議場的秩序讓我們國家最高殿堂的立法委員也可以在議場裡面表現出立法委員應該有的高度"},{"start":4247.398,"end":4254.987,"text":"謝謝謝謝千玺 我們共同來維護啦好 那這個沒問題啦我們下一個議程是那個改善那個投票章這個委員有沒有來來"},{"start":4262.488,"end":4284.784,"text":"跟委員報告一下因為我們進行投票表決的時候相關的選務工具就是巡禮辦理那目前的話因為它是巡禮所以都是用印尼跟一個圓戳那委員現在建議說我們如果採用連續張的話就可以有一個好處就是說比較不容易去印尼不小心去沾染到這個票"},{"start":4285.464,"end":4306.187,"text":"那這個是一個很好的建議 但是因為它涉及到整個投票表決 巡力要不要去做改變那我們內部的部分 我會請我們的工作單位去洽詢這些比較恰當的連續章那在適當的機會呢 可能我們透過秘書長 然後在朝野協商的時候"},{"start":4307.228,"end":4322.544,"text":"由院長跟各黨團講因為整個投票表決它可能大部分都發生在院會那如果委員會如果也有的話讓各黨團能夠窒息說可能將來會用這個那大家意見如何覺得好不好用就好比說這一次投票表決我們也會有一個樣張"},{"start":4324.365,"end":4348.412,"text":"讓各黨團先了解說它的樣子長什麼樣才能夠進行你的投票表決所以這個是屬於到委員進行投票表決的一種習慣那我們會按照委員的建議去研究那個連續章那在適當的時候在草野協商的時候請院長給各黨團看一下說這樣是不是可以如果可以的話我們下一次如果進行投票表決的時候我們幕僚人員就採用這種"},{"start":4350.314,"end":4360.31,"text":"這種連續張的方式讓大家委員知道說投票是看到這個東西來進行以免它發生說我沒有印尼怎麼會突然間有變化這個就是這樣處理以上"},{"start":4363.126,"end":4368.469,"text":"是 不過就是當然剛聽了那個處長的說明讓我也覺得說其實是一件小事這個小事還要搞到院長協商所以讓我覺得說其實院長 秘書長應該還有各黨團的這個總召都應該處理更重要的事對 其實這個如果說幾位到時候看看適合的話也許就改成連續章這是我的建議好 妳先看一下董姐姐我讓她慎重讓她們看一下"},{"start":4391.724,"end":4401.17,"text":"好,小林這個問題可以解決,好不好那就送到院長那邊,抄以協商的時候看一下你們吃飯了沒有?已經快一點了,我們抓一下時間好了,好不好那個如果還沒有吃飯的,看便當有來就一邊吃了,好不好,不要咬到那個,抱歉,那個小林你已經講了三個了我徵詢你意見好不好,你要不要看看雅琳或者倩琪有沒有其他的"},{"start":4419.878,"end":4436.652,"text":"沒有 那我們就繼續討論你再提三個題完 我還有一個重要的提案 我在你後面今天很快都是相關的就是說因為我們知道就是這個當委員會在議事過程當中就是開會的時候的議事過程當中如果發生一場混亂或是設備故障的情況的話就是議事人員他沒有辦法做記錄"},{"start":4443.077,"end":4467.328,"text":"在上一次应该在选办法的那个会议的时候就是这样然后搞到最后连什么电脑也不能用也没有录音笔也没有办法录音那我们就建议说是不是其实为了要保确保议事记录的完整性跟正确性可以允许让议事人员到时候自备这个录音笔真的不能够用这种什么现场麦克风来录音的时候至少一个录音笔它可以把当地"},{"start":4467.748,"end":4472.449,"text":"當時的完整的會議記錄把它記錄下來那我覺得這個其實是有必要的對 否則的話這個變成說只是因為電腦不能夠用然後就整個會議都不能開這是有點不合理啊 這是不合理的這個狀況這是第四個案子 那我再繼續把另外兩個一起捏降 好"},{"start":4490.095,"end":4500.323,"text":"第五個案子就是我們知道高雄案的事情現在高等法院的法官已經也申請釋憲停止裁判然後想要請大法官要釐清立法院"},{"start":4505.186,"end":4526.445,"text":"公费助理跟委员或是跟立法院之间的关系那我记得我在上一次的经费经常委员会的时候其实也有提出来了相关的问题所以代表我还蛮有先见之明知道说这是一个重要的议题那我想法治局这边其实也有做了一些延续的报告尤其是针对各国的比较那我觉得这非常有意义"},{"start":4527.145,"end":4534.649,"text":"所以我的建議是說趁著這一次如果說法治局的報告也經過院長或秘書長核准的話也應該要公開然後甚至未來可以提供給憲法法庭作為一個重要的資料參考那麼還是有必要要去釐清立法院的公費助理跟立法委員之間的關係這個涉及到所有委員的權益的問題這是第五個案子那第六個案子"},{"start":4556.857,"end":4583.942,"text":"就是在我們這次審查預算的過程當中其實我認為立法院預算中心所提出來的報告書對我們立法委員在審查預算案是非常有幫助裡面的預算報告的內容也寫得非常詳實很好但只可惜每一次立法院預算中心的報告都是很晚很晚才給我們所以我的意思是說有沒有可能立法院預算中心因為你們是分組嘛"},{"start":4584.782,"end":4601.358,"text":"分组然后不同研究员只要是完成了这个报告建议然后并经过院长的核准或是中级主任这边核准之后就可以一部分一部分的陆陆续续的揭露让我们委员们有可以参考"},{"start":4602.279,"end":4616.25,"text":"否則的話就是都要等到最後一次性的公開可是我們都已經開始預算審議了就緩不濟急所以希望預算中心這個部分可以檢討預算中心報告公開的時間點謝謝來 那個第四個案子讓肉依比那個請訴處長"},{"start":4630.732,"end":4641.578,"text":"跟委員報告有關所有的委員會的那個錄音錄影的設備是我們公報處那公報處第五課他是負責這個"},{"start":4645.172,"end":4667.566,"text":"攝影機跟我們的錄音的收音那還有一到三顆是屬於數據的部分那我們數據人員在會場上也會經由這個我們的錄音設備來收音還有他們本身也會帶一個錄音筆那這個部分是因為我們要做成公報出稿跟記錄用的那至於說"},{"start":4668.266,"end":4669.427,"text":"在會場上有可能混亂的時間他並沒有辦法使用我們的設備或者甚至剛剛委員也有講是用個人自備的那個"},{"start":4680.004,"end":4706.835,"text":"麥克風啊或者是所謂的擴音設備那這一些可能會產生一個爭執所以我們如果用錄音筆去錄的話那個聲音可能就是無法去做辨識所以我們一直都會根據我們立法院的錄音錄影管理規則還是要以我們本身公有的這個設備來收音才會是做成一個正式公報的一個"},{"start":4709.416,"end":4732.588,"text":"就是因為這樣才會有公信力就是由公家機關說 我也要解釋我們本身院裡的設備來做收音這個才是會有公信力的那我們都是依據這個辦法來做處理那或者我們收音回去了包括我們五科的這個影音的設備的收音會對照我們那個"},{"start":4734.829,"end":4752.44,"text":"數據人員的收音會去做對照那至於這個要有沒有效力那這個開會的這個資料都是要經過委員會他們本身要做成議事錄那我們無從判斷我們只是做一個收音跟做成那個會議的出稿記錄然後提供給委員會以上報告"},{"start":4757.418,"end":4761.78,"text":"不好意思我還想繼續請教處長因為在上次的這個混亂的過程當中有發現一個問題就是你們現在的錄影機還有錄音的設備它是連接到電腦然後這個電腦就只有一台只有那一台電腦才能使用就變得很麻煩應該沒有連線"},{"start":4781.374,"end":4783.275,"text":"電腦這個部分是屬於資訊處他們在要連到這個會議場的這個可能這一些設備那我們錄音錄影的是針對著對國會頻道要播的所以這兩個是沒有連在一起的"},{"start":4796.565,"end":4825.246,"text":"所以上次在那個內政委員會當時為什麼就說有一台電腦就被民進黨委員會扣住了啊扣住之後就不能做記錄然後又趕快又再去跟別的委員會又再去調一台筆電然後才能做記錄所以為什麼我今天會提出這個案子就是因為有發生這樣的一個原因就是當我們每個委員會裡面所配置的筆記型電腦被特定的委員拿走了"},{"start":4826.465,"end":4834.29,"text":"莫收了然後變成整個會議都不能記錄耶這其實問題很嚴重而且我要對不起我還要再講一下就是因為現在看起來在委員會或在議事上面的衝突不斷確實在議事工坊上面很多的委員會想很多各式各樣的怪招然後目的就是要"},{"start":4846.798,"end":4864.924,"text":"阻礙會議的進行那我認為我們的公報處或是議事處這邊也要去想這個策略的混亂的過程當中你要有一個緊急應變的方法不能說因為我的設備不能是因為我的電腦被偷了麥克風被偷了什麼被偷了所以至於不能開會"},{"start":4866.745,"end":4878.034,"text":"對 更何況現在錄影筆其實它的這個效果也很好手機隨時都可以拍攝都可以錄所以我建議說這個立法院這邊我們同樣還是要要做一些準備對"},{"start":4885.629,"end":4910.331,"text":"我想因為歷史攻防這件事情應該是從我小時候看電視就一直存在了我看立法院一直都有這些衝突我想這麼多年下來管理辦法也應該是有根據這些狀況去做一些精進不過我想最終也還是回到各黨團之間要去做溝通因為這個辦法應該也不是我們今天說了就可以改我想了解這應該還是要回到各黨團之間去討論"},{"start":4912.318,"end":4918.406,"text":"可以做決定就依照以前的我們的規矩規則管理辦法來做可以啦現在可以可以做得到啦"},{"start":4921.465,"end":4947.379,"text":"好 謝謝主席還有各位同仁我就只針對剛才那個翁委員這邊講的那比較技術性的問題我提一個建議啦雖然未來不管是怎麼樣溝通那看起來公報處就處理這些比如說正式的收音管道然後資訊處又處理相關的這個網路的這個問題但是基本上都是怎麼樣我們讓會議能夠進行的更流暢的一個整體設備的一個處理"},{"start":4950.481,"end":4977.388,"text":"那我這邊建議一點啦這個中華民國的國會殿堂那我們其實在這個空間裡面長久以來應該有很多要處理的事情我不提不代表我沒有意見那但是我們也尊重這個整個立法院我們在空間處理上的一個優先順序但是剛才小林委員這邊提到的是說那整個的設施設備我們如何能夠跟上一個"},{"start":4978.548,"end":4996.561,"text":"國家的國會殿堂在任何不管什麼樣子的情況過去已有的未來會有或不會有的那我們如何在這樣整個設備上做一個整體的處理更精進那這個是不是在今天我們的會議我們可以提給不管未來處理人是誰黨團也好或者是"},{"start":4998.302,"end":5013.067,"text":"律師處這邊在立法院我們未來要怎麼處理有過去的例子但是也有未來我覺得中華民國的國會究竟我們要給別人呈現一個什麼樣子的樣態這是不是可以一起"},{"start":5014.528,"end":5025.781,"text":"我們先依照現有的機制先來做跟管理辦法來做然後今天小玲有提的或者倩琦有提的一些要補強的一些新的措施交給這個秘書處這邊來跟公報處這邊來研議看怎麼去補強這樣好不好"},{"start":5029.705,"end":5056.055,"text":"好我最後再講的就是說這管理辦法要修啦要修正也請秘書長這裡可能拜託要重新要去修正這個管理辦法然後我們所有的設備都要有個備份就要第二套不能說你一套的被民進黨委員偷走了之後呢我們就以至於會都不能開了這其實很糟糕的一件事情好不好小林你剛提的就那個公報書你不要列進去嚴厲一下好不好"},{"start":5060.897,"end":5082.356,"text":"那請公報處跟資金處,寧可共同在嚴厲一下,好不好那我們就下個案,下個案應該比較單純的嘛剛剛小玲在讚美我們那個預算中心,是法治局做了很多好的報告那預算局的副,現在是副局長,對,慢力給他來法治局,兼民政"},{"start":5084.847,"end":5097.991,"text":"請問是法治局?對,是法治局好,那麽麥麗,那個副...副局長,來嗯?我知道,我們先把這個給他通知好了"},{"start":5101.187,"end":5122.466,"text":"主席 各位委員 行政秘書長 法治局報告首先謝謝委員肯定本局有關於公費助理各國法治的比較研究我們會遵照委員的建議我們在檢視報告內容之後比較本局有關的相關研究譬如說是議題研析或是專題研究報告的形式然後對外公開 以上報告"},{"start":5124.312,"end":5131.666,"text":"OK啦,好,那那個小林鎮OK齁,法治局這個那你另外第六個你提的是預算中心嘛來,護士"},{"start":5133.837,"end":5157.302,"text":"你是肯定那個預算中心給我們的只是速度要快一點對不對好 主席 各位同仁 針對翁委員的部分謝謝翁委員因為這個部分牽涉到我們預算法46條快進年度4個月前行政院各機關要把整個預算提供到我們立法院來所以他會在8月底之前才會提供預算到我們預算中心來"},{"start":5158.502,"end":5173.825,"text":"那預算來之後呢我們基本上我們看預算之後還要我們的各組要寫就是要發問卷調查就是我們需要了解什麼樣的內容所以來寫這個評估報告所以這個部分的話通常來寫完之後所以九月跟十月當然就是我們會集中在"},{"start":5174.626,"end":5193.163,"text":"集中在九月十月來寫這個評估報告所以這個部分來講我們一寫完簽合給秘書長之後我們就會公佈而且會給各位委員會在我們的預算中心的延期報告網站裡面去公佈而且提供下載所以很多公費助理會跟我們要相關的資料那我們基本上都開放下載所以這個部分來講因為我們"},{"start":5195.245,"end":5212.247,"text":"因為行政院各級官要紙要其實很難要非常難要所以我們也盡力說我們在這個評估報告裡面我希望盡量就是以數據來呈現整個報告的內容所以我們是很平時很完整的寫這個評估報告對啊以上"},{"start":5214.797,"end":5217.861,"text":"其實我對裡面的研究員所寫的報告我非常肯定那當然就是您剛有講到是哪些機關繳這個預算書太晚太慢"},{"start":5230.475,"end":5249.527,"text":"以後請把名單給我們我們在質詢的時候我們就可以講那第二部分就是說因為你們是一次性的公佈全部但是如果我的我剛剛的意思是說如果說有部分的組別已經完成了部分研究員已經完成相關的報告其實就可以一部分一部分的揭露然後讓我們可以提早作業提早來閱讀"},{"start":5251.133,"end":5273.738,"text":"各位報告我們不是一次性揭露的就是說我們報告寫完之後比如說我這邊各組長看完之後大家副主任看完 主任看完之後我們會簽合給副秘書長秘書長簽合可之後我們就會公佈出去基本上我是說哪幾組哪幾個單位寫完之後然後秘書長合可之後我們就會公佈出去不是說要一次性的公佈這樣子"},{"start":5275.68,"end":5302.039,"text":"那我上次的經驗是說很多說都還不能公佈那也不知道到底是卡在哪邊明明就已經寫好了但是就說不能夠先給我們看好 沒關係或許是我們助理在傳達相關資訊的時候不是很完整但是我今天提出來就希望說在今年度在預算中心提出報告的時候可以提早作業完成的話就先讓我們委員們知道好 謝謝委員指教 謝謝"},{"start":5304.592,"end":5325.024,"text":"鄭遠就是下次早點給啦,特別是那個小林去跟你講說他沒有拿到的時候,盡快給他們有啦,小林今天都肯定那個法治局跟預算中心,表示大家表現不錯啦好,那我們接下來呢,我們大概有五分鐘時間裡內我們要上會,換我來提個案子啦我很想給大家歡迎說最近我們變動的錢我們已經沒夠"},{"start":5327.642,"end":5349.893,"text":"我們立法院好像有明訂說便當不能夠超過一百塊嘛前陣子鬧了一個笑話說硬定嘛韓院長說要請我們吃那個麥當勞結果買回來的時候那個套餐啊少了好幾樣東西只有一個漢堡嘛聽說飲料都不夠了就是我們現在的錢沒辦法買到一個套餐然後現在我們旁邊好像是那個阿杜是不是"},{"start":5351.65,"end":5355.635,"text":"阿杜跟青島,聽說都八幾塊所以我們現在解決這個問題,要不然以後立法委員我們職員在吃飯,會叫不到便當啦那瓊師你幫我們想想辦法,來來看這邊,解決這個問題"},{"start":5369.602,"end":5375.388,"text":"主席、各位委員,謝謝委員關心這個議題因為像委員會報告,立法院是一個民意機關,我們議事的頻率非常高根據過去的統計,每年訂購的便當數量大約介於6萬至8萬個左右依照現在我們訪查市場的現況"},{"start":5390.945,"end":5407.354,"text":"雖然我們都是比照各機關訂100塊的便當但是如果市場價格介於110至130的話每增加10塊錢我們會增加大概60萬至80萬左右的金額所以大概我們是不是可以建議說當然因為主計總署有授權各機關依實際的狀況去做調整"},{"start":5412.336,"end":5427.775,"text":"我們目前的共同供應契約是到四月份還是訂一百塊的便當所以也有勞各位來見諒未來是不是可以授權我們就在立法院的經費額度內我們再視狀況走以調整"},{"start":5431.579,"end":5455.239,"text":"那搭配一些院長最近都關心各位的用餐那我們就訂一些多元的餐飲台灣的特色的小吃那這樣來搭配來滿足大家的用餐的需求謝謝我辦公室注意到這個問題很多立法委內在跟我反映這個問題所以我今天提出我有請我辦公室先去做功課上有些部會他們行政部門有些都已經調了"},{"start":5456.34,"end":5474.276,"text":"所以我相信我們來調應該沒有問題那我做一個建議案 好不好 大家聽聽看就是本院的總務處去研議在我們立法院現有這個預算就是沒有增加啦 可是在這個額度裡面參考市場的這個價格 周以調整"},{"start":5475.017,"end":5499.436,"text":"所以你買的是可以足以調整的並輔以其他的多元餐點的情況韓院長說要蓋麥當勞還是蓋小籠包以滿足這個整個議會還有我們同仁大家的需求這不是只有立法院吃以為我們立法院的就要用這種標準在現有額度的沒有錢沒有增加可是可以自己調整好不好我們這樣來做可不可以?可以嗎?小林跟亞林叫什麼?可以嗎?"},{"start":5501.499,"end":5518.188,"text":"不然我們現在有可能給十塊也有可能給二十塊啦可是就是在現有的立法案的預算裡面去調好不好這樣以後大家會吃到好一點的便當好不好好那我們就做這樣的結議喔好那沒其他事我們就散會了好謝謝大家拜拜"},{"start":5520.369,"end":5522.831,"text":"主要是因為那個距離"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}