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陳委員好辛苦了齁我在交通委員會十幾年了齁我大概讚美你是讚美最多的"},{"start":29.997,"end":55.985,"text":"從你在立榮當總經理總市長一直到現在到高鐵那這次你從高鐵掉到台鐵來我不曉得是我們哪個長官沒電了嗎把你調過來對不起部長不是講你不知道誰沒電了把你調到台鐵來可能是你在高鐵的表現太好了轉虧為盈我們在公司化整個過程"},{"start":57.028,"end":80.89,"text":"你這邊當總經理嘛是不是後來董事長這個過程我都歷歷在目看在眼裡因為我在交通委員會非常久了那你去台鐵當然你表現很好可能給你更重要的任務我想我們這個年紀能夠替國家社會做點事也是很光榮的一件事情所以我一直勉勵你就是鼓勵你"},{"start":82.588,"end":109.939,"text":"這個不要因為薪水多少錢多少而妨害了你的心境你過來以後我發現有人跟我反映說高鐵的便當不如台鐵高鐵的便當他的商務商不如台鐵部長你回去好好檢討一下好不好高鐵那麼高的票價如果便當輸給台鐵的話未免也太丟臉了嘛對不對這個注意一下好不好"},{"start":110.854,"end":130.602,"text":"另外台鐵你上任以後敬老措施我看了日本很多的影片他們敬老非常的好銀髮族很多現在高齡社會坐火車去玩去哪裡我覺得董事長你可以跟觀光署"},{"start":131.673,"end":157.042,"text":"各縣市政府尤其花蓮台東縣政府可以合作推出這樣的列車定位每一站每一站每一站你們把這些老人還有小朋友親子活動帶去玩然後從那邊再帶回來你一站一站的每一個列車我想都會客滿你不但可以對這些老人對這些家庭的活動有些注意而且對台鐵的收益"},{"start":158.479,"end":185.569,"text":"那可以說也是一個幫助所以台鐵我希望你去那邊以後業務蒸蒸日上當然台鐵跟公路總局機必成科很多去的人這不是一個好位置去的人責任負擔很重我想我在交通委員會特別跟您勉勵我們共勉好不好謝謝委員的勉勵我也全力以赴"},{"start":186.294,"end":211.6,"text":"你要加油了好不好那你的便當尤其希望更精進我在交通委員會每次中午吃飯你問那個後面的小姐吃飯那個如果不是台鐵便當我都搖搖頭我就走了我沒興趣所以我也拜託主任秘書這邊交通委員會主任秘書你都供一些台鐵便當嘛我們交通委員會你看所有那麼多單位都沒有單位提供便當的"},{"start":213.448,"end":225.809,"text":"連我們召委你看都點頭成事啊是不是台鐵便當一個禮拜起碼兩次好不好我們也給鄭董免利嘛好不好謝謝委員給我們的加油鄭董你請回我請召委拜託交通部陳部長"},{"start":236.869,"end":259.235,"text":"謝謝部長昨天是總諮詢是馬祖大橋啊我想你也聽到了嘛有我昨天站在院長旁邊你講說公文給我我到現在回去查還沒收到你說他360億是那360億就360億那院長也講了那既然如果是360億的話那就360億嘛那你也看到360億的公文嗎"},{"start":261.338,"end":287.223,"text":"公文我沒看到但是你沒看到我也沒看到他們給我的資料是這樣子的數字沒關係啦這個不重要那主要就是編列預算編列預算啦我在台北市是負責編列預算的審查預算的我對預算非常的了解他編預算上預算的過程有過程的有程序的院長也講了既然技術沒問題經費沒問題那麼就開始編列預算嘛"},{"start":290.441,"end":304.893,"text":"那編列預算你要先開會啊今天公路總局局長沒有來啦今天是台鐵的巡達嘛那你回去告訴一下公路總局好不好我們從下個月開始請他"},{"start":306.187,"end":326.346,"text":"起碼就因為院長到昨天為止沒有講說不行喔準備要上預算因為已經七年了未免也太長了一點對已經七年了可是這個要等院合定他們的合定還沒下啦合定合定嘛你們程序一走啊你們一團死水的嗎跟我們擺在那個地方擺了八年一百年蛤"},{"start":328.735,"end":353.317,"text":"你不要連那個情死亡的墓最後被找出來你們還沒搞出來啊進度都有在走啊但是就是現在在等最後合定那你弄嘛到底怎樣嘛是不是你是陳學生委員在追啊好我希望你們下個月開始不管有沒有合定每個月召集一次會議我想我去參加不太方便你們按照程序齁隸屬關係找行政院找"},{"start":354.465,"end":375.342,"text":"不是行政院 交通部這邊找林鄉縣政府每個月開一次匯報好不好 每次開一次匯報到明年四月份 把它訂出一個方案來然後咧 因為明年的預算是今年上嘛後年預算是明年上嘛那明年上預算之前你們一定內部有個討論嘛"},{"start":377.119,"end":405.117,"text":"有個決定嘛 行政院有個程序嘛是不是 行政院程序批了以後你們才上得了預算啦不然你上不了預算嘛 對不對對 所以我是說你從現在開始 已經十月份時間也不多喔 禮拜五很長喔現在十月 過去就十一月了十一月 十二月 一月 二月 三月 五個月時間把這個事情搞定搞定以後咧要簽給大院 行政院"},{"start":406.783,"end":432.904,"text":"給時間核定以後你四月份我們主計人員才能夠把這個預算編進去才能上預算那你要整編嘛然後七八月份預算送到立法院來審議我一定要看到我沒看到的話說真的我已經發怒了我昨天講了我已經按耐我一直按耐我不是沒有脾氣的人你們可能看我陳雲仁沒有脾氣好欺負"},{"start":433.991,"end":454.134,"text":"不要這樣嘛 不會啦 沒有人敢欺負你這樣不好好不好 不會 不會然後或是有些錢我常常聽到說給綠不給藍我希望沒有這個事啦 不好啦我們聯江其實也幫很多忙委員應該都知道我其他有一些預算 你看你現在即使才辦法給我錢我還是不夠嘛 還是不夠嘛"},{"start":455.373,"end":474.487,"text":"你7億多你給我22億好了我多17億不夠一般補助款跟計畫型的補助嘛你拿到一些錢擺在那邊爛尾樓嗎不可能所以我想部長你了然於衷這個錢不夠的補助款跟計畫型的一些補助款你還是要補助給我們好不好"},{"start":475.342,"end":495.631,"text":"我會看到時候主總他的原則主計總署他的原則他給的原則給我們之後該協助連江該協助馬祖我們一定會全力來協助金門110億澎湖七八十億馬祖22億他們吃得油油的我們沒有然後這個修法提案是我提出來"},{"start":496.84,"end":524.707,"text":"我是忍辱負重把離島的問題2.5%的問題把它解決把這問題解決雖然300多億財化碼剩下300多億那其中有220億是金馬鵬的那臺灣的部分只剩下100多億那我不管他你把分子分母的問題把它解決以後其他的臺灣平均怎麼分別按照程序去處理那我們不夠的部分請部長"},{"start":526.061,"end":555.208,"text":"你告訴所屬單位沒有什麼給綠不給藍的如果這樣我會發怒好不好不好不好也會影響到我們藍軍對省預算的態度我們有足夠的經費的時候對於地方政府能夠協助的我們的態度你沒足夠也要給啊你不能房子蓋了一半你不給錢啊所以以前是地方政府要要回饋百分之十現在是四十趴欸四十%欸我們哪有這個錢所以部長你答應我"},{"start":556.038,"end":579.014,"text":"就是這個馬祖大橋的事情下個月開始啟動院長昨天講得很清楚了我想你也聽到了對啦啟動開會這個沒問題要開會但是你說要編預算我們要等到沒有你要開會開會沒問題開會你開會怎麼樣我要知道我就一個月好不好你開會讓我知道好不好好好好沒問題我們找聯交縣政府一起來開會因為我們那個抓委規定很嚴格"},{"start":580.223,"end":595.768,"text":"沒超過30秒就按鈴一次這個交通委員會從來沒這樣我當召委都讓他多講10分鐘可以多講他就不讓我講了後面兩個委員在看好了 後面何市長在催了 謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":740,"blocks":[["陳委員雪生：（11時37分）謝謝主席，請臺鐵鄭董事長。"],["主席：鄭董事長請。"],["陳委員雪生：鄭董，辛苦了。"],["鄭董事長光遠：陳委員好。"],["陳委員雪生：我在交通委員會十幾年了，我大概讚美你是讚美最多的，從你在立榮當總經理、董事長，一直到高鐵。"],["鄭董事長光遠：謝謝委員。"],["陳委員雪生：這次你從高鐵調到臺鐵來，我不曉得是我們哪個長官沒電把你調過來？對不起啊！部長，不是講你喔，不知道誰沒電，把你調到臺鐵來，可能是你在高鐵的表現太好了，轉虧為盈，我們在公司化的整個過程，你在那邊當總經理嘛！是不是？後來當董事長，這個過程我都歷歷在目看在眼裡，因為我在交通委員會非常久了，你去臺鐵當然表現很好，可能給你更重要的任務，我想我們這個年紀能夠替國家社會做點事，也是很光榮的一件事情啦！所以我一直勉勵你、鼓勵你，不要因為薪水多少、錢多少而妨害了你的心境。你過來以後，有人跟我反映高鐵的便當不如臺鐵，高鐵商務艙的便當不如臺鐵，部長，你回去好好檢討一下，好不好？高鐵那麼高的票價，如果便當輸給臺鐵的話未免也太丟臉了嘛！對不對？這個注意一下，好不好？","另外，你到臺鐵上任以後，敬老措施，我看了日本很多的影片，他們敬老做得非常的好，銀髮族很多，現在高齡社會嘛！坐火車去玩、去哪裡，董事長，我覺得你可以跟觀光署、各縣市政府，尤其可以跟花蓮、臺東縣政府合作，推出這樣的列車定位，每一站、每一站、每一站，你們把這些老人還有小朋友參加親子活動的帶去玩，然後從那邊再帶回來，我想每一個列車一站一站都會客滿，你不但可以對這些老人、對這些家庭活動有所助益，而且對臺鐵的收益可以說也是一個幫助，所以我希望你去臺鐵那邊以後業務蒸蒸日上，當然臺鐵跟公路總局積弊沉痾很多，這不是一個好位置，去的人責任負擔很重，我在交通委員會特別跟你勉勵，我們共勉，好不好？"],["鄭董事長光遠：謝謝委員的勉勵，我也全力以赴。"],["陳委員雪生：你要加油，好不好？"],["鄭董事長光遠：是，謝謝。"],["陳委員雪生：尤其希望你的便當更精進，你問後面的小姐，我在交通委員會每次中午吃飯，如果不是臺鐵便當，我都搖搖頭就走了，我沒興趣。"],["鄭董事長光遠：謝謝委員。"],["陳委員雪生：所以我也拜託交通委員會主任秘書，你多供一些臺鐵便當，交通委員會有那麼多單位都沒有單位提供便當的，連我們召委都點頭稱是，是不是？臺鐵便當一個禮拜起碼兩次，好不好？我們也給鄭董勉勵，好不好？"],["鄭董事長光遠：謝謝委員給我們加油。"],["陳委員雪生：好，鄭董請回。召委拜託，請交通部陳部長。"],["陳部長世凱：委員好。"],["陳委員雪生：部長，昨天是總質詢。"],["陳部長世凱：是。"],["陳委員雪生：馬祖大橋，我想你也聽到了。"],["陳部長世凱：有，我昨天站在院長的旁邊。"],["陳委員雪生：你講說公文有給我，我到現在回去查還沒收到，你說要360億。"],["陳部長世凱：是，世曦工程那邊估算出來360億。"],["陳委員雪生：360億就360億，院長也講了，如果是360億的話，那就360億，你也看到360億的公文嗎？"],["陳部長世凱：公文我沒看到……"],["陳委員雪生：你沒看到，我也沒看到啊？"],["陳部長世凱：但他們給我的資料是這樣子的數字。"],["陳委員雪生：你跟我講有看到？沒關係啦，這個不重要……"],["陳部長世凱：我回去再請單位……"],["陳委員雪生：主要就是編列預算，我在臺北市是負責編列預算、審查預算的，我對預算非常了解，它編預算、上預算是有過程的、有程序的。"],["陳部長世凱：是。"],["陳委員雪生：院長也講了，既然技術沒問題、經費沒問題，那麼就開始編列預算，編列預算你要先開會，今天公路總局局長沒有來，今天是臺鐵的詢答，你回去告訴一下公路總局，好不好？"],["陳部長世凱：是。"],["陳委員雪生：我們從下個月開始請他起碼就……因為院長到昨天為止沒有講說不行喔，準備要上預算，因為已經7年了，未免也太長了一點，已經7年了……"],["陳部長世凱：對，委員，可是這個要等院核定，他們的核定還沒下來。"],["陳委員雪生：那就核定嘛！你們程序繼續走，你們不要一團死水，公文擺在那個地方擺了8年、100年，你不要連秦始皇的墓最後被找出來，你們還沒搞出來。"],["陳部長世凱：有啦！進度都有在走，但是就是現在在等最後核定。"],["陳委員雪生：那你弄嘛！到底怎樣嘛？是不是？你說陳雪生委員在追啊！"],["陳部長世凱：好。"],["陳委員雪生：我希望你們下個月開始，不管有沒有核定，每個月召集一次會議，我去參加不太方便，你們按照程序、隸屬關係，請交通部找連江縣政府每個月開一次會報，好不好？到明年4月份把它訂出一個方案來，因為明年的預算是今年上，後年預算是明年上，明年上預算之前，你們一定在內部有個討論、有個決定，行政院有個程序嘛！是不是？行政院程序批了以後，你們才上得了預算，不然你上不了預算嘛！對不對？"],["陳部長世凱：對，現在是沒有辦法上預算。"],["陳委員雪生：對，所以我是說，你從現在開始，已經10月份了，時間也不多，你不要以為很多，現在10月，再過去就11月了，11月、12月、1月、2月、3月有5個月時間，把這個事情搞定，搞定以後要簽給大院行政院，給行政院核定以後，4月份我們主計人員才能夠把這個預算編進去，才能上預算，你要整編，7、8月份預算送到立法院來審議，我一定要看到、我一定要看到，我沒看到的話，說真的，我已經發怒了，我昨天講了，我已經按捺、我一直按捺，我不是沒有脾氣的人，你們可能看我陳雪生沒有脾氣好欺負，不要這樣嘛！"],["陳部長世凱：不會啦，沒有人敢欺負你。"],["陳委員雪生：這樣不好，好不好？"],["陳部長世凱：不會、不會！"],["陳委員雪生：或是我常常聽到有些錢給綠不給藍，我希望沒有這種事啦，不好啦！"],["陳部長世凱：連江我們其實也幫很多忙，委員應該都知道，沒有這個問題。"],["陳委員雪生：其他有一些預算，你看，你現在即使財劃法給我錢，我還是不夠嘛！還是不夠嘛！七億多，你給我22億好了，我多17億，不夠一般補助款跟計畫型的補助，你拿到一些錢擺在那邊的爛尾樓嗎？不可能，所以部長，你了然於胸，這個錢，不夠的補助款跟一些計畫型的補助款，你還是要補助給我們好不好？"],["陳部長世凱：我會看到時候主計總處的原則，它把原則給我們之後，該協助連江、該協助馬祖的，我們一定會全力來協助。"],["陳委員雪生：金門110億、澎湖70、80億，馬祖22億，他們吃得油油的，我們沒有，然後這個修法提案是我提出來，我忍辱負重把離島2.5%的問題解決，是不是？雖然財劃法增加三百多億，但其中有220億是金、馬、澎的，臺灣的部分剩下一百多億，我不管他了，你把分子、分母的問題解決以後，其他的臺灣平均怎麼分配，按照程序去處理，我們不夠的部分請部長你告訴所屬單位，沒有什麼給綠不給藍的。"],["陳部長世凱：沒有這樣的原則。"],["陳委員雪生：如果這樣，我會發怒，好不好？不好！不好！也會影響到我們藍軍對審預算的態度。"],["陳部長世凱：我們有足夠經費的時候，對於地方政府能夠協助的，我們的態度一樣，會儘量來協助。"],["陳委員雪生：你不足夠也要給，你不能房子蓋了一半不給錢啊！以前是地方政府要回饋10%，現在是40%，我們哪有這個錢？所以部長你答應我，就是馬祖大橋的事情下個月開始啟動，院長昨天講得很清楚了，我想你也聽到了。"],["陳部長世凱：對啦，啟動開會這個沒問題。"],["陳委員雪生：要開會。"],["陳部長世凱：但是你說要編預算，我們要等到……"],["陳委員雪生：沒有，你要開會。"],["陳部長世凱：開會沒問題。"],["陳委員雪生：你開會怎麼樣我要知道。"],["陳部長世凱：我們就一個月……"],["陳委員雪生：好不好？你開會讓我知道，好不好？"],["陳部長世凱：好，沒問題，我們找連江縣政府一起來開會。"],["陳委員雪生：因為我們召委規定很嚴格，每超過30秒就按鈴一次。"],["陳部長世凱：不會啦！"],["陳委員雪生：交通委員會從來沒這樣的，我當召委都讓他多講10分鐘。"],["主席：可以多講、可以多講。"],["陳委員雪生：他就不讓我講了。"],["主席：是後面兩個委員在看。"],["陳委員雪生：好啦！後面何市長在催了，謝謝。"],["陳部長世凱：謝謝委員。"],["主席：好，謝謝陳雪生委員，我們也是一視同仁，感謝。","接下來再請何欣純委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":132,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-23-4","speakers":["洪孟楷","廖先翔","林國成","李昆澤","林俊憲","蔡其昌","陳素月","徐富癸","黃健豪","魯明哲","陳俊宇","許智傑","陳雪生","何欣純","李柏毅","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","黃國昌","謝龍介","邱若華","邱志偉","楊瓊瓔","陳瑩","徐欣瑩","游顥","鍾佳濱","蘇巧慧","郭昱晴"],"page_start":61,"meetingDate":["2025-10-29"],"gazette_id":"1149001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1149001_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期交通委員會第4次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請交通部部長、國營臺灣鐵路股份有限公司董事長及勞動部就「臺鐵各地車站旅客安全措\n施檢討、改善員工職場安全及勞動條件」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、邀請交通部部長及交通\n部鐵道局局長就「全台軌道建設進度」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1149001_00002"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}