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公務署彭署長好 署長第一個問題請教你就是本來日本跟台灣是為惡的非豬瘟疫區那現在已經台灣已經有豬瘟的這個案例現在唯一的就只有日本是上次我在今天我會質詢日本的經驗可以去學習是"},{"start":35.501,"end":52.408,"text":"日本的廚餘日本有沒有廚餘是 日本有廚餘是家家戶戶都有廚餘嗎他們還是有產生廚餘廚餘的量廚餘的量沒有台灣多吧沒有你們去了解日本廚餘怎麼去產生因為我每天跟日本人生活我知道日本比較少廚餘他們廚餘不是像我們這個一般的這個方式在處理好 即便有廚餘"},{"start":65.197,"end":90.47,"text":"這出於那天在經濟委員會他提到說可以讓他變成飼料是液態的還是固態的他有先進的技術是過去我們有沒有這個技術我試著回答因為這是環境部的好就你業管的部分就日本的經驗您知不知道日本他的這個到底怎麼樣把他把這處變成這個飼料"},{"start":92.426,"end":114.961,"text":"是液態的還是固態的他要記住我們能不能取得是所以他們沒有邊境管制他們依然可以確保是非豬瘟國所以這是我們可以學習的然後部長說我們如果可以取得授權的話我們願意馬上去做對 部長已經交代了就是委員會先執行完後可以的話我們馬上去日本去看是看看他們到底是用什麼方式來變成飼料"},{"start":116.789,"end":137.959,"text":"那就完全就解決這個問題了嘛一方面可以解決廚藝的問題一方面可以避免這個豬瘟因為它已經失調化失調化就完全沒有病毒了嘛這個有沒有計畫馬上去日本去考察一下我們去看也可以經濟委員會去看也可以"},{"start":139.148,"end":154.561,"text":"報告委員我們已經有做對日本這個處於其實他們大部分是用剩食飼料化那技術面的話有液態飼料也有乾燥的飼料兩個技術都有在使用這兩個飼料不管液態都能夠"},{"start":158.824,"end":175.361,"text":"杜絕這個豬瘟的病毒嘛對於有含肉疑慮的原料的話人家已經行之已有年了為什麼我們為什麼不學他們的技術或者取得授權我們要還用最比較這個比較沒有效率的方式做邊際檢查然後要那麼多人力"},{"start":176.707,"end":205.683,"text":"報告委員台灣也有一場是做把這個剩餘的食品變剩食變成那個固態飼料台灣有五千多場耶只有一場做成乾燥飼料的有一場為什麼沒有辦法全面這可能涉及成本的問題我覺得這部分跟去跟日本學習如果取得授權盡快如果可行的話連評估可行的話盡快跟日本代表處"},{"start":206.867,"end":229.202,"text":"趕快去日本實際去看一下實際的狀況那我們還會另外再安排那個署長另外再安排是不是經濟委員會也去日本看一下到底是他們怎麼樣把廚餘處理變成私料化這個過程是怎麼樣技術是怎麼樣我們可能要盡快去看一下你們速度不能比立法院慢"},{"start":231.135,"end":252.123,"text":"你們租代表署有沒有農業部的同僚有有你們趕快去收集資料明天我就去看也可以啊這個防疫如作戰另外你們再逃一逃二你們是委外你們新竹分數到底有沒有同仁在那邊"},{"start":252.825,"end":273.608,"text":"我報告委員您那天這個質詢以後那就交代桃園分署都要輪流輪班24小時都一定要有監督人員在那裡保健公司固然有受過訓練他專業度沒有比我們房間署的同仁還有如果有什麼有什麼狀況房間署可以馬上處理嘛"},{"start":274.707,"end":291.819,"text":"而且針對高風險 包括高風險台港澳 港澳中他是強制要檢查一定要檢查除了日本之外 全部一定要檢查他如果檢查出來他有帶豬肉當場丟掉就沒事你們數據來看你們從這個107年到114年"},{"start":301.295,"end":307.28,"text":"總共還有2619件這2000多件是經過你們的安檢區到海關被攔檢下來嘛對不對你看還有2000多件漏網之魚幹嘛呢手檢區修正一下是手檢區的數量你的手檢區的數量那真正被查法有多少查法900多"},{"start":325.534,"end":341.33,"text":"基本上這樣你經過首檢區不是只是一個形式而已你要有專業的人去看到底有沒有而且要看得仔細一排十個人在那邊大部分在協助搬運行李通過速度很快我是懷疑到底有沒有人在看"},{"start":343.476,"end":352.906,"text":"我們可以來檢討這個時期的這個流程跟作業將近2600多件2600多件他就把它丟掉就沒事嘛你說還有900多件是要裁罰的在裁罰是在彭署長那邊又被攔下第二關被攔下來對不對沒有錯嘛在我們這邊應該到那邊就不會重複裁罰"},{"start":367.026,"end":392.661,"text":"對嘛你們在前第一線沒有裁罰嘛不是我跟委員報告就是這個我們檢查的是旅客帶的手檢的隨身攜帶S光機是針對我們的行李對我知道所以兩個是不一樣的那手檢的部分呢手檢就是剛剛講的2600多件對2600多件之中對嘛那都不會裁罰嘛那你東西拿掉就好裁罰丟掉不是這個怎麼會裁罰呢這個"},{"start":394.266,"end":414.575,"text":"你那個良福保全再做安全的丟掉丟掉就不用裁罰了嗎不用裁罰那你裁罰900多千是什麼裁罰應該是那個是托運行李還是手提行李S光機確診是S光機是托運行李嘛對不對是是是所以900多千是托運行李是好在第一關你們這個委託的這個保險公司做的這個手提行李的檢查"},{"start":415.155,"end":431.112,"text":"你們撿出200多件丟掉就沒事嘛是丟掉他不就沒有裁罰的問題是是是所以目前這樣子完全沒有裁罰然後呢這個托運行李你們被罰了這個700多件托運行李嘛"},{"start":434.41,"end":445.484,"text":"你來你來充飲行李是被罰是全部充飲行李嘛對不對各位報告因為手提行李的話是在桃園機場是經過房間署百分之百手檢確認他沒有帶違規產品才讓他通過"},{"start":448.188,"end":467.749,"text":"那接下來海關這邊S光機還會再檢查那個就是拖運的行李的部分所以被罰的全部拖運行李嘛那被罰的部分有兩種樣態一種是動物產品一種是植物產品是嘛反正所有被裁罰的都是拖運行李嘛所提行李在你們第一關他看到不管有沒有看到啦他看到只要過了就沒事了嘛對不對"},{"start":468.65,"end":496.777,"text":"不管有沒有看到因為我們托運行李我們首提行李檢查是針對高風險的那個非洲諸多國家那有些國家像日本像歐美但我都知道我說你們檢查第一個要專業第一個要確實那麼多的每天大概這個六七萬人入境六七萬人入境他的首提行李他可能在機場買一個豬肉產品他就放著那你如果沒有檢查出來那就是你們第一線防疫局的問題"},{"start":497.617,"end":513.69,"text":"對不對現在採訪都是經過S光機透過這個托運行李看到才採訪對不對跑不掉因為他托運行李嘛那手力行李第一個你們安檢的品質怎麼樣專業怎麼樣把關很重要每天六七萬人入境你如果檢查確實的話好"},{"start":518.547,"end":535.253,"text":"他就把他拿掉對不對對就不會是被裁罰了對然後還有第二道關卡就是到了那個我們的劉那個什麼檢疫犬的那個地方檢疫犬是第二道有幾隻檢疫犬我目前全國有56隻56隻56隻這個你如果要檢查就要很確實是不能抽檢是"},{"start":543.251,"end":564.044,"text":"這個防疫的關卡很重要所以我最後建議就是第一線路徑第一關所有的這個手裡行李案件的部分一定要專業而且要確實不能留意形式另外你說有這個犬隻要在第二波第二關這個也要確實如果被犬隻查到怎麼辦"},{"start":565.678,"end":592.559,"text":"一定罰那個這個只要有肉製產品就當場就開立20萬那假設他不繳就回去了如果犬隻查到代表說你那一關那一關跳過了那一關沒有你們第一關沒有查出來是是我們也在追這種要吻合啦要相相所以啊這個第一關很重要啊署長新竹分屬一定要再加油桃園分屬桃園分屬還是新竹分屬"},{"start":596.087,"end":597.777,"text":"已經改成叫桃園分數桃園分數 謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1140,"blocks":[["邱委員志偉：（11時45分）謝謝主席。請農業部防檢署杜署長和關務署彭署長。"],["主席：請杜署長和彭署長。"],["杜署長麗華：委員好！"],["邱委員志偉：署長，第一個問題請教你，本來日本和臺灣是唯二的非豬瘟疫區嘛！"],["杜署長麗華：是。"],["邱委員志偉：但是現在臺灣已經有豬瘟的案例，現在唯一沒有的只有日本，上次我在經濟委員會質詢，日本的經驗可以學習，日本有沒有廚餘？"],["杜署長麗華：日本有廚餘。"],["邱委員志偉：是家家戶戶都有廚餘嗎？"],["杜署長麗華：他們還是有產生廚餘，但是它……"],["邱委員志偉：但是廚餘的量沒有臺灣多吧！"],["杜署長麗華：沒有。"],["邱委員志偉：你去瞭解日本的廚餘是怎麼產生的。"],["杜署長麗華：是。"],["邱委員志偉：因為我每天都跟日本人生活，所以我知道，日本比較少廚餘，他們的廚餘不像我們是用一般的方式在處理。即便他們有廚餘，那天在經濟委員會，他提到可以讓它變成飼料，是液態的還是固態的？它有先進的技術，過去我們有沒有這個技術？"],["杜署長麗華：我試著回答，因為這是環境部的權責。"],["邱委員志偉：好，就你業管的部分，日本的經驗你知不知道？到底日本是怎麼把廚餘變成飼料？是液態的還是固態的？它的技術我們能不能取得？他們沒有邊境管制，卻依然可以確保是非豬瘟國，這是我們可以學習的。然後部長說，如果我們可以取得授權的話，我們願意馬上去做。"],["杜署長麗華：對、對，部長已經交代了。就是委員那天質詢完以後，部長已經交代了。"],["邱委員志偉：可以的話，我們馬上就去日本看，看看他們到底是用什麼方式把它變成飼料？那就完全解決這個問題了嘛！對不對？一方面可以解決廚餘的問題，一方面可以避免豬瘟，因為它已經飼料化，飼料化就完全沒有病毒了嘛！你們有沒有計畫馬上去日本考察一下？我們經濟委員會去看也可以。"],["程副所長梅萍：報告委員，我們已經有針對日本的廚餘，其實他們大部分是將剩食飼料化，技術面的話，有液態飼料，也有乾燥的飼料，兩個技術都有在使用。"],["邱委員志偉：這兩種飼料，不管是液態或固態都能夠杜絕豬瘟的病毒嘛！"],["程副所長梅萍：對於含有肉疑慮的原料，他們也是……"],["邱委員志偉：是嘛！所以人家已經行之有年了，為什麼我們不學他們的技術或取得授權，我們還是用比較沒有效率的方式在做邊境檢查，然後還要那麼多的人力。"],["程副所長梅萍：報告委員，臺灣也有一個廠是把剩餘的食品、剩食變成固態的飼料。"],["邱委員志偉：臺灣有五千多個廠，只有1個廠在做？"],["程副所長梅萍：做成乾燥飼料的有1個廠。"],["邱委員志偉：為什麼沒有辦法全面？"],["程副所長梅萍：這可能涉及成本的問題。"],["邱委員志偉：我覺得這部分要跟日本學習，如果要取得授權就儘快，如果你們評估可行的話，就儘快跟駐日代表處去日本看一下實際的狀況。"],["程副所長梅萍：是。"],["邱委員志偉：署長，我們還會另外再安排，是不是經濟委員會也去日本看一下到底他們是怎麼樣把廚餘處理變成飼料化，這個過程是怎麼樣、技術是怎麼樣，我們可能要儘快去看一下。"],["杜署長麗華：好。"],["邱委員志偉：你們的速度不能比立法院慢。"],["杜署長麗華：好。"],["邱委員志偉：駐日代表處有沒有農業部的同仁？"],["杜署長麗華：有。"],["邱委員志偉：對啊！你們叫他趕快去蒐集資料，明天就去看也可以。"],["杜署長麗華：好。"],["邱委員志偉：防疫如作戰。"],["杜署長麗華：是。"],["邱委員志偉：另外，桃一、桃二你們是委外，你們新竹分署到底有沒有同仁在那邊？"],["杜署長麗華：報告委員，您那天質詢以後，我們就有交代桃園分署要輪流、輪班，24小時都一定要有監督人員在那裡。"],["邱委員志偉：不能只交給保全公司，保全公司固然有受過訓練，但是他們的專業度比不上我們防檢署的同仁，如果有什麼狀況，防檢署可以馬上處理嘛！而且針對高風險的部分，比如港、澳、中，它是強制要檢查，對不對？"],["杜署長麗華：一定要檢查。"],["邱委員志偉：對，除了日本之外，全部一定要檢查。"],["杜署長麗華：是、是、是。"],["邱委員志偉：如果檢查出來有帶豬肉，當場丟掉就沒事嘛！"],["杜署長麗華：對，棄置。"],["邱委員志偉：就你們的數據來看，107年到114年總共還有2,619件，這兩千多件是經過你們的安檢區被海關攔檢下來，對不對？"],["杜署長麗華：是。"],["邱委員志偉：你看，還有兩千多件的漏網之魚，是不是這樣？"],["杜署長麗華：手檢區，修正一下，這是手檢區的數量。"],["邱委員志偉：手檢區的數量，那真正被裁罰的有多少？"],["杜署長麗華：裁罰九百多件，一年有九百多件。"],["邱委員志偉：基本上，經過手檢區不只是形式而已，你要有專門的人去看到底有沒有，而且還要看得很仔細，一排有10個人在那邊，大部分都是在協助搬運行李，通過的速度很快，我很懷疑到底有沒有在看。"],["杜署長麗華：好，我們可以來檢討實際流程及作業內容。"],["邱委員志偉：好。你檢查出來將近兩千六百多件，這兩千六百多件把它丟掉就沒事嘛！"],["杜署長麗華：是。"],["邱委員志偉：你說還有九百多件是要裁罰的，但是裁罰是在彭署長那邊，就是第二關被攔下來的，對不對？沒有錯嘛！"],["杜署長麗華：沒有，到那邊應該就不會重複裁罰。"],["邱委員志偉：你們第一線沒有裁罰嘛！"],["杜署長麗華：不是，我跟委員報告，我們檢查的是旅客帶的手檢的、隨身攜帶的，X光機針對的是行李，所以兩個是不一樣的。"],["邱委員志偉：我知道，那手檢的部分呢？"],["杜署長麗華：手檢的就是剛剛講的兩千六百多件。"],["邱委員志偉：我知道，多少？"],["杜署長麗華：兩千六百多件之中有九百多件被裁罰。"],["邱委員志偉：對嘛！那都不會裁罰嘛！東西丟掉就好了。"],["杜署長麗華：不是……"],["邱委員志偉：怎麼會裁罰？那個是良福保全在做安檢的。"],["杜署長麗華：對，丟掉。"],["邱委員志偉：丟掉就不用裁罰嘛！"],["杜署長麗華：不用裁罰。"],["邱委員志偉：那你裁罰的九百多件是怎麼裁罰的？是托運行李還是手提行李？"],["杜署長麗華：確認是X光機。"],["邱委員志偉：是托運行李嘛！對不對？"],["杜署長麗華：是、是、是。"],["邱委員志偉：所以九百多件是托運行李。"],["杜署長麗華：是。"],["邱委員志偉：好，在第一關你們委託的保全公司所做的手提行李檢查，檢查出了兩百多件，但丟掉就沒事了嘛！就沒有裁罰的問題嘛！"],["杜署長麗華：是。"],["邱委員志偉：所以目前這樣是完全沒有裁罰，而托運行李被罰了七百多件，被罰的全部都是托運行李嘛！對不對？"],["亓副組長隆祥：跟委員報告，因為手提行李在桃園機場是經過防檢署100%的手檢，確認他沒有攜帶違規產品才會讓他通過，接下來海關這邊的X光機還會再檢查托運行李的部分。"],["邱委員志偉：所以被罰的全部都是托運行李嘛！"],["亓副組長隆祥：但是被罰的有兩種樣態，一種是動物產品、一種是植物產品。"],["邱委員志偉：是嘛！所有被裁罰的都是托運行李嘛！手提行李在你們第一關時，不管他有沒有看到，只要過了就沒事嘛，對不對？不管有沒有看到哦！"],["亓副組長隆祥：因為手提行李100%檢查是針對高風險的非洲豬瘟國家，有些國家像日本或歐美的話，它可能就不會通過我們的手檢區。"],["邱委員志偉：這個我都知道，我是說你們的檢查第一個要專業，第二個要確實，每天有六、七萬人入境，他們的手提行李，他可能是在機場買了一個豬肉產品，然後他就放著，如果你沒有檢查出來，那就是你們第一線防檢署的問題，對不對？現在裁罰的都是托運行李經過X光機看到的才裁罰，對不對？跑不掉，因為它是托運行李。而手提行李的部分，第一個，你們安檢的品質怎麼樣？專業怎麼樣？把關很重要，每天六、七萬人入境，如果你檢查確實的話，他馬上就把它拿掉，對不對？就不會被裁罰了嘛！"],["杜署長麗華：對，然後還有第二道關卡，就是到了我們檢疫犬那邊，檢疫犬是第二道關卡。"],["邱委員志偉：現在有幾隻檢疫犬？"],["杜署長麗華：目前全國有56隻。"],["邱委員志偉：56隻？"],["杜署長麗華：56隻。"],["邱委員志偉：如果你要檢查，你就要很確實，不能抽檢，防疫的關卡很重要，所以我最後的建議是，第一線、入境的第一關，所有手提行李的安檢部分一定要專業和確實，不能流於形式。"],["杜署長麗華：好。"],["邱委員志偉：另外，你說有犬隻在第二關，這個也要確實。"],["杜署長麗華：好，會。"],["邱委員志偉：如果被犬隻查到要怎麼辦？要不要罰？"],["杜署長麗華：一定罰，只要有肉製產品，當場就開立20萬，假設他不繳，那就要回去了。"],["邱委員志偉：如果被犬隻查到，代表說前一關就跳過了，你們第一關沒有查出來。"],["杜署長麗華：是，我們也在追，這種要相吻合。"],["邱委員志偉：所以第一關很重要，署長，新竹分署一定要再加油，謝謝。"],["杜署長麗華：那是桃園分署。"],["邱委員志偉：還是新竹分署？"],["杜署長麗華：已經改成桃園分署，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝邱志偉委員。","接下著請楊瓊瓔委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":244,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-15-8","speakers":["黃建賓","徐巧芯","蘇巧慧","張智倫","張宏陸","王美惠","麥玉珍","許宇甄","牛煦庭","徐欣瑩","吳琪銘","李柏毅","謝龍介","丁學忠","徐富癸","林楚茵","邱志偉","楊瓊瓔","陳雪生","高金素梅","黃捷"],"page_start":175,"meetingDate":["2025-10-29"],"gazette_id":"1148901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148901_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期內政委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請內政部部長、海洋委員會主任委員、內政部警政署署長、內政部移民署署長、海洋委員\n會海巡署署長、農業部部長、財政部關務署署長，就「防堵非洲豬瘟邊境檢疫與查緝機制之檢討\n與精進作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、審查委員徐巧芯等16人擬具「海岸巡防法第十三條\n條文修正草案」案【僅詢答】","agenda_id":"1148901_00004"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}