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謝謝主席啊是不是請警政署張署長啊 張署長請喂啦署長 我們馬祖警察局啊 連山縣警察局齁那個 官有啦 兵沒有有啦 都補給了啦補了多少人六個"},{"start":30.083,"end":49.341,"text":"不夠啦 已經滿了啊沒有滿 要8個才夠我來再來這是有新的畢業的這些學生來我們再來做因為我們預算原額本來就已經很少了預算原額比編制原額少為了省一點錢嘛因為預算是比編制少一點點"},{"start":55.259,"end":75.05,"text":"那你不能說只有巡關以上的那底下沒有兵我們這次就是馬祖的部分因為他的人數少嘛就基層的這個部分如果少一個可能在量不足所以這是大概優勢補最多的啦好啦謝謝署長不管怎麼樣這個馬祖警察局"},{"start":76.075,"end":89.782,"text":"在署的領導之下跟我們縣政府還有地方人都配合的非常好謝謝委員署長請回是不是請召委請移民署移民署林署長請移民署林署長署長早上個禮拜啊這個發生一件大陸漁船在不是海峽中線喔在他們的領海公海在他們的領海"},{"start":105.854,"end":130.728,"text":"對我們海嵐二號裡面12隻星的海嵐弄斷兩隻星後來被海巡把他帶回來海巡帶回來以後大概就把他留置了並沒有拘留啊幹什麼等等都沒有那其中斷了兩星那現在中華電信我跟他們協調因為大陸那邊跟我們聯絡"},{"start":133.871,"end":160.825,"text":"大陸跟我們聯絡,那現在已經和解了那他賠了25萬那這案子已經到我們連江地檢署當然地檢署那邊依法行政嘛,他們會去處理那已經調解完畢了那這問題是不大了現在這個人,人在馬祖也沒有拘留,也沒有留置,也沒有收押那這個人怎麼回去,是個問題"},{"start":162.328,"end":191.309,"text":"我曾經也打電話給我們那個宜峻 宜峻組長宜峻組長也有去協調那這個人呢 現在兩種方式嘛一個是 署裡面很像講 預案要有大通證謝謝宜峻組長 多謝你協助 禮拜六禮拜六放假我還找他 他一直很熱心 在努力這個事情一個大通證大通證他說要見到人 大陸那邊講要見到人頭才能有大通證"},{"start":192.315,"end":203.684,"text":"因為我們現在海基跟陸委會跟對面已經不通了嘛已讀不回了嘛已經對幹啦 已經火車對撞了嘛沒有協調的人啦 是不是那現在勒一個大統政的方式一個是時間暫停一下時間暫停"},{"start":222.227,"end":251.819,"text":"好 一個用大通證如果大通證寄過來我們讓他回去但他大通證本來只有一種現在為了這個人他有兩種就是一次性的臨時大通證那今天會從黃旗送到我們議長的手上那有了這個大通證我們可以讓他就移民署這邊讓他出境移民署讓他出境如果沒有大通證的話呢那就是你們的預案很像是移民署的預案"},{"start":252.813,"end":282.004,"text":"也就是從他們派個漁船過來我們也雇用漁船在海峽中線把人叫出去署長你們有沒有研究妥適方案現在這個可能沒辦法做這樣子的一個處理沒辦法做這樣子的一個處理他沒有事啊 沒有事啊 目前啊人怎麼回去"},{"start":282.932,"end":309.866,"text":"你海巡把他帶回來 現在人怎麼給他弄回去你不能被人家求啊我們每天要提供他便當耶這個案子齁 因為這個他是應該是因為在我們海巡把他帶進來的啦應該是海巡帶進來的啦所以他並不是標準的所謂的偷渡啦他是等於是非法"},{"start":311.844,"end":319.686,"text":"斷纜 等於是非法他應該是涉及到國安的問題啦合解的現在沒有這個問題啦沒有斷纜的問題啦能合解啦案子已經合解啦跟委員報告那原來我們移送給地檢署以後地檢署檢察官裁定這個人是由移民署來收容收容 收容多久啊這就不是我們斷纜的原因已經消失了嘛因為他合解啦"},{"start":341.601,"end":362.592,"text":"那賠獎金也賠啦 25萬也收啦已經沒事啦那你們要把他養到嗎移民署總有預案嘛 總有個方案啊你移民署總要有個對策嘛對不對其實這個部分齁 這個部分我們要把他驅逐出境但是問題是他沒有大通證 大陸那邊不會收那他如果有大通證你們要不要放他走會啊"},{"start":367.899,"end":395.584,"text":"因為他本來就要虛擬出去那臨時的大通證你們可以接受嗎一次一次性的大通證那這個他本來影印本要送來 我說不行現在大通證是他回大陸的時候有大陸那邊在看的所以大陸那邊如果說他有發 正常應該是會收可以嗎"},{"start":396.294,"end":423.413,"text":"如果是他發的他應該就會收我們對海關會放棄嗎 我們的移民組會放棄嗎我們會發臨時出境許可 讓他一次性的 讓他回去也可以吧 好 那這樣就OK了啦那不然的話也要按照前例嘛 要漁船送回去另外署長 馬祖現在的人球有多少個你知道嗎大陸的人球有三十幾個你們沒關係喔 那個海巡要養到 要養到"},{"start":425.66,"end":436.868,"text":"他們留置啊 養稻 還蓋個房子給他們住勒還提供他們起居作息 海巡很多錢喔海安委會很多錢嗎 三十幾個海巡組出來有沒有來"},{"start":439.665,"end":463.719,"text":"沒有啊 我把名單開給你三十幾個不是一個兩個三個我們沒有留置三十幾個人報紙有一個有一個偷渡犯他八月底的時候已經執行期滿但是呢目前中國也不收所以還收容在移民署三十幾個 我名單開給你我們沒有 我們沒有留置三十幾個人好 那你們不要提供便當給他喔 把他餓死喔"},{"start":465.609,"end":475.794,"text":"我們沒有留置三十幾個人你問一下海巡隊嘛問一下海巡隊好不好我們會後來跟委員我們來跟委員了解不必查證我們絕對沒有留置但是我們會來跟委員請教這個數字主委我正好要找你了海巡蓋房子"},{"start":489.281,"end":500.55,"text":"我們讓他蓋了我當縣長的時候就把河堤讓他蓋了把土地開給你也都給你們了也都給你們了我們了解好你們蓋的進度怎麼樣現在"},{"start":502.246,"end":529.83,"text":"我們有委員講的是海巡隊我們海巡隊目前都是一進度大概是不是說明一下蓋到一樓目前蓋到一樓是我們請同仁組長說明一下好嗎是我有去看過好 組長你說明一下馬祖海巡隊的工程目前是進度大概百分之二十多左右"},{"start":530.592,"end":559.825,"text":"進入六月超前 那目前蓋到一樓那一定是明年底會能夠整個完工當初我跟你們海巡講你們海巡要蓋房子你不是要蓋個另外一個房子讓海巡弟兄住進去嗎你去拿個貨櫃租了幾十個幾百個貨櫃把它堆疊起來 現在漏水啦我跟你們講暫時臨時性的清澈蓋了以後你們將來這個房子蓋好剩下的房子給縣政府用嘛"},{"start":560.834,"end":573.722,"text":"你要浪費那個錢幹什麼我搞不懂你們海軍後勤人員在幹什麼我也跟你們建議了 你們也不聽不過這已經算了啦 沒關係啦木已成舟啦有需要蓋個房子嘛簡單的房子讓他住嘛用那個貨櫃屋 拿了幾十個 一百個把它疊起來 裡面跟鬼一樣就是貨櫃啊 還不是"},{"start":590.626,"end":596.99,"text":"他不是一個貨櫃一個貨櫃疊起來不是 我有去看那個臨時聽社我去看 臨時聽社也去看然後開工典禮我也去就是貨櫃啊"},{"start":606.809,"end":631.924,"text":"OK 來委員我們一定來把他們的居住環境做很好的改善好不好但是要蓋一棟房子來做臨時聽測這個部分可能還涉及土地等等各方面的問題跟土地什麼關係土地是我們提供給你的土地是縣政府提供給你沒有土地沒關係啊只是你們因為說錢要比較多一點就如此而已嘛"},{"start":633.875,"end":642.077,"text":"凡事還是靠需求,未來海巡,未來海巡隊的建築,未來海巡隊的建築完成以後,未來海巡隊的建築完成以後,未來海巡隊的建築完成以後,未來海巡隊的建築完成以後,未來海巡隊的建築完成以後,未來海巡隊的建築完成以後,未來海巡隊的建築完成以後,未來海巡隊的建築完成以後,"},{"start":654.74,"end":672.254,"text":"委員我們一直有在走程序請問有人放心因為他必須要走三階段所以我們目前程序要走三四年嗎我早知道等你們程序走完才答應你們維持這個三階段我們一直沒辦法突破這一點我們很希望他被當作國防設施可是他沒辦法被當作國防設施你說走什麼程序 三階段對 三階段審議現在走到哪一階段"},{"start":681.67,"end":690.875,"text":"還在一階段還是二階段第二階段還在二階段我回去找縣政府發個函給你們我們跟你終止"},{"start":692.34,"end":713.539,"text":"我們跟你統治 你看好不好 你慢慢去三階段啦這個委員是氣話我了解但是三階段的問題我們一直非常非常希望能夠突破但是畢竟我們不是國防部所以他們辦法突破這個部分我們跟國防單位一直都交涉非常久把救生大隊把它弄走"},{"start":714.537,"end":740.889,"text":"然後把土地給你們不過委員我們已經走到第二階段也算是一個突破我跟你講你跟上面報告再給你兩個月時間齁不行的話我們終止齁我跟你講這個土地不給你們我知道委員的關心的程度讓委員說了這樣的氣話但是我們事實上走三階段是一直在努力你們話講 主委你話講再多沒有用啦我跟你講啦你給我耽誤了放在閒置的三四年了我們現在的發展讓你這樣子玩法不可能的"},{"start":742.148,"end":761.195,"text":"我們現在不可能讓你這樣玩啦我們也很關心它中間的設計所以在這個設計的過程當中我們也非常非常聽取地方的意見然後做了很多很多的修正委員也知道那些過程所以委員我們不是閒置喔我們不知道這個過程喔 署長你會後來跟我報告一下好不好哪有這樣閒置在這個地方呢好 另外還有一個問題 主委"},{"start":774.159,"end":788.691,"text":"前幾天發現一條豬死豬啊在我們北竿的秦碧海岸發現這條豬發現的是紅斑點是陽性反應是豬瘟你們怎麼處理"},{"start":789.816,"end":803.842,"text":"我們按照SOP非常謹慎的處理完畢,最後有焚毀跟掩埋焚毀?有焚毀跟掩埋你搞錯了吧?是掩埋欸焚毀以後才掩埋,我們不可能不焚毀他去哪裡焚毀?"},{"start":806.463,"end":830.74,"text":"委員我們焚毀而掩埋在北竿秦碧哪個焚化廠來焚毀跟委員報告那你沒有燒毀的地方嗎跟委員報告我們根據房間所的SOP我們有焚毀跟掩埋那事後我們會把那個整個的影片給委員看好不好請問有沒有放心我們不會不焚毀而掩埋最後一個問題那個李請回防疫有沒有來防疫齁"},{"start":836.601,"end":865.505,"text":"你們中正機場最讓人詬病的是國人進來回家歸心事件你們搞了一套人馬在那邊是不是排隊排好久好久我跟你講現在正好朱溫出來了這個到底朱溫怎麼出來了他是在台中發現的不是桃園你出來的話海關這邊又有一套防疫人員在那邊苟文來文去的裡面又搞一套全世界哪個國家這樣子搞"},{"start":866.311,"end":893.175,"text":"然後這個老闆有來找我 哎呀你如果這個不給我們做的話我們這些人要失業了我也從善如流啊 我也不砍你們預算啊不砍你們預算 但你服務態度要好 速度要快嘛對不對 你那個檢查呢翻箱倒櫃不是翻箱倒櫃 皮包打開 拉鍊打開你一個一個在那邊弄 共產黨也沒這樣搞啊全世界哪個國家 你舉例說明給我聽聽看"},{"start":894.565,"end":915.977,"text":"妳是署長嗎是 委員好 這表示真的大家都很嚴格在做執行那這個確實也是它的必要性因為畢竟非洲豬瘟它可以經由我們人為攜帶或我們的腳底等等這些病人會有交叉的感染那至於說我們的服務態度或者是速度方面我想我們都來個不是妳這個兩套是哪一國有"},{"start":918.556,"end":937.175,"text":"日本有嗎 馬來西亞有嗎 香港有嗎全世界已經39個國家都有非洲豬瘟那有人這樣搞兩套的防疫嗎我們通報現在台灣是變第40個那在亞洲地區不是我問你署長我們有哪一個國家搞兩套的這樣防疫像我們中正機場這樣即便台灣這麼嚴格我跟委員報告從我們"},{"start":942.225,"end":947.595,"text":"手提行李的氣質桶裡面去檢測那你松山跟高雄呢松山跟高雄要不要搞都搞幾個沒關係連馬祖也來搞金門也來搞問題很大啦"},{"start":955.047,"end":983.709,"text":"報告委員那松山跟這個台中的部分是因為腹地的關係但是因為他全部都要經過X光的做處理跟檢疫權的處理但是因為他人流比較多風險比較高所以這個部分其實也是幫我們旅客啦為什麼因為你在這個的首體安檢過假設你被檢出你不用罰可是你到X光機你被檢出那麼他就會裁罰裁罰一次就20萬"},{"start":985.391,"end":1008.669,"text":"這是你講的話啦 沒關係啦你不要在松山機場出事情不要在高雄出事情你不要在這個金門馬祖出事情金門馬祖出事情啊你也搞一套啊 你也搞一套來啊你叫哪一家公司那個也來啊我懷疑這個朱溫哪裡來是海邊來的啦 我跟你講啦所以今天海關署長關鍵署長也在這邊嘛其實我跟你講 他要從海邊來啊"},{"start":1013.712,"end":1034.377,"text":"海邊漁船走失的多少啊多少豬肉多少牛肉啊你進往這邊金門馬祖那邊去查幹什麼金門發生豬瘟了嗎金門發生口蹄馬祖豬肉也要管制金門跟馬祖差很遠欸差很遠很遠金門跟馬祖沒有互通你知道嗎金門人到馬祖要從松山機場轉機再過來一點關聯都沒有啊"},{"start":1041.963,"end":1071.261,"text":"所以你們的觀念要弄清楚好不好你在防疫署我覺得有狀況這次非洲豬瘟我想問題我直接的判斷應該從海邊出現尤其武吉港那邊是從海邊出現任何的可疑的我們都會追查國人同胞會把牛肉乾什麼豬肉乾帶進來我看機率不高啦你們要搞兩套人馬我看你們什麼時候沒完沒了了嗎"},{"start":1072.622,"end":1098.222,"text":"這個單位沒完沒了嗎 一直這樣搞下去搞兩套嗎國人在罵死了你知道嗎哪一個國人回國了嗎 被你們這樣拿去搞這個報告委員請體諒一下確實基於防疫的立場我不是體諒你啊 大家都要體諒你還是要加強提高整個的一個防疫的措施所以這個真的是有必要畢竟是我們背後的產生這麼大那你松山機長也來啊"},{"start":1099.008,"end":1106.714,"text":"小港機場也來啊 為什麼不來也都有在做評估都是國際嘛 金門馬祖也來啊你為什麼馬祖不搞一套 你搞一套給我那問題也很大 也要搞兩套的防疫嘛是不是 你們錢很多嗎"},{"start":1115.899,"end":1133.149,"text":"你們去想一想好不好你們自己回國的時候 你是走哪個通道啊你走綠色通道嗎你也去排隊假設我們從日本來的話 那麼我們就不會走我們走綠線就不會走那裡但是其他39個國家進來的就一定要走首檢區"},{"start":1134.91,"end":1164.294,"text":"香港 澳門 日本 馬來西亞 泰國有搞兩套嗎 還有我跟委員報告有搞兩套嗎 也沒看到豬瘟出現啊從我們氣質區的採樣送檢那個陽性比例達到10%所以這個是我們不得不謹慎對待之啦我跟你講啦 你海邊都注意一下啦海邊啦 我們跟海巡的協助海巡啦 海關啦 你對海邊 海岸啦你多注意一下啦莫名其妙這個死豬肉媽從哪裡跑出來"},{"start":1164.895,"end":1191.753,"text":"我們馬祖都跑出來啊是不是 難道是中山機場入境呢還是中山機場入境呢 然後跑到馬祖去傳染給豬嗎怎麼可能在馬祖的這個驗出是陽性以後我們就整個都公告禁止到11月1號 不行他的豬肉跟所有的加工品都不能到台灣跟所有的離島還有馬祖的雞蛋不能過來我們土生的雞蛋要檢查"},{"start":1192.959,"end":1217.957,"text":"那你台灣的雞蛋到馬祖區要被檢查 也要檢查喔也要貼我們馬祖養的羊沒有進雞蛋進什麼雞蛋我們父母親在馬祖辛辛苦苦養一些土雞女兒在台灣做月子 土雞帶到台灣去要經過你們防疫人員檢疫我請問這什麼道理啊我們是次等公民嗎 還是什麼"},{"start":1219.875,"end":1236.619,"text":"馬祖是不是中華民國的豬餵我現在跟你講雞了啦雞跟鴨跟羊啦我們羊肉帶來我們有養羊啊帶來你們也要說要檢疫啊要防疫啊以前要農會開證明欸農會怎麼開沒有道理嘛 是不是"},{"start":1240.322,"end":1269.874,"text":"我們的雞拿到台灣來 可是報告委員畢竟這個離島 包括馬祖來講 距離大陸太近了我們馬祖沒有因為沒有因為這種事情真的相對高所以我們要特別的注意因為從我們的這個資料顯示上來講其實有很多的風險都是來自於中國大陸所以我們更要針對這個邊境尤其是在離島的靠近我在馬祖生活的七十幾年我吃了以後啊"},{"start":1270.714,"end":1299.637,"text":"也沒病也沒幹什麼的很像你們這些檢疫人員看到你們就生病了我吃的都沒病啊 你是看了一眼就生病了很奇怪有那麼緊張嗎防疫是要做 我絕對同意但是你們嚴格到我們自己國人養的雞跟雞生的蛋跟我們國人養的羊也要經過你們防疫檢查才能夠進到台灣來"},{"start":1301.291,"end":1324.278,"text":"我們上飛機要檢查我從來沒有為難過你們召委你請坐沒關係你不要急好不好因為時間的關係召委已經站起來了你們回去檢討一下我剛才所講的問題如果有檢討的空間我們檢討但也請委員提到防疫是要全國一致性不能有任何的破口謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1306,"blocks":[["陳委員雪生：（12時4分）謝謝主席，有請警政署張署長。"],["主席：請張署長。"],["張署長榮興：委員好。"],["陳委員雪生：署長，我們馬祖警察局、連江縣警察局官有了，兵沒有。"],["張署長榮興：有，都補齊了。"],["陳委員雪生：補了多少人？"],["張署長榮興：6個。"],["陳委員雪生：不夠啦。"],["張署長榮興：預算員額已經滿了。"],["陳委員雪生：沒有滿，要8個才夠。"],["張署長榮興：我再來了解，如果有新的畢業學生來，我們再來考量。"],["陳委員雪生：因為我們預算員額本來就很少，預算員額比編制員額少，為了省一點錢。"],["張署長榮興：對，預算員額比編制員額少一點點。"],["陳委員雪生：你不能只有巡官以上的，底下沒有兵，你叫局長自己去做？"],["張署長榮興：這次馬祖的部分因為人數少，基層的部分如果少一個，可能在量能就會不足，所以這次大概是有史以來補最多的。"],["陳委員雪生：好啦，謝謝署長，不管怎麼樣，馬祖警察局在署的領導之下，跟我們縣政府和地方都配合得非常好。"],["張署長榮興：謝謝委員。"],["陳委員雪生：署長請回。召委，請移民署林署長。"],["主席：請林署長。"],["林署長宏恩：委員好。"],["陳委員雪生：署長早。上個禮拜發生一件大陸漁船在他們的領海對我們海纜2號裡面12支芯的海纜弄斷2支芯，後來被海巡帶回來，海巡帶回來以後大概就留置了，並沒有拘留等等，其中斷了2芯，現在中華電信，我跟他們協調，因為大陸跟我們聯絡，現在已經和解了，它賠了25萬元，這個案子已經到連江地檢署，當然地檢署那邊依法行政，他們會去處理，已經調解完畢了，這個問題不大。現在這個人在馬祖，沒有拘留、沒有留置也沒有收押，但是人怎麼回去這個問題，我曾經打電話給貽俊組長，貽俊組長有去協調，現在有兩種方式，一個是大通證，大陸那邊講要見到人頭才有大通證，因為我們海基會和陸委會跟對面已經不通了，已讀不回了，已經對幹了，已經火車對撞了，沒有協調的人了，是不是？一個是大通證的方式，如果大通證寄過來，我們讓他回去，但是大通證本來只有一種，現在為了這個人，它有兩種，就是一次性的臨時大通證，今天會從黃岐送到局長的手上，有了大通證，我們移民署可以讓他出境；如果沒有大通證的話，移民署的預案好像是他們派個漁船過來，我們也僱用一艘漁船，在海峽中線把人交出去。署長，你們現在有沒有研究處置方案？"],["林署長宏恩：可能沒有辦法做這樣的處理。"],["陳委員雪生：他目前沒有事啊！人怎麼回去？你們海巡把他帶回來，現在人怎麼弄回去？不能變成人球啊！我們每天要提供他便當。"],["林署長宏恩：這個是海巡帶進來的，所以並不是標準的偷渡，斷纜是非法……他應該是涉及到國安的問題。"],["陳委員雪生：斷纜和解了，現在沒有斷纜的問題了，案子已經和解了啊！"],["張副主任委員忠龍：跟委員報告，我們移送地檢署以後，地檢署檢察官裁定這個人是由移民署收容。"],["陳委員雪生：收容？收容多久？"],["張副主任委員忠龍：後續就不是我們來處理。"],["陳委員雪生：斷纜的原因已經消失了，因為他和解了，賠償金也賠了，25萬元也收了，已經沒事了，你們要養他嗎？移民署總有個方案啊！移民署總要有個對策，對不對？"],["林署長宏恩：其實這個部分我們要把他驅逐出境，問題是他沒有大通證，大陸那邊不會收。"],["陳委員雪生：他如果有大通證，你們要不要放他走？"],["林署長宏恩：會啊！因為他本來就應該要被驅逐出境。"],["陳委員雪生：臨時的大通證你們可以接受嗎？一次性的大通證，他們本來影本要送來，我說不行，要正本。"],["林組長貽俊：現在大通證是他回大陸時，由大陸那邊在看的，所以大陸那邊如果有發，正常應該會收。"],["陳委員雪生：可以嗎？"],["林組長貽俊：如果是它發的，它應該就會收。"],["陳委員雪生：我們海關會放行嗎？移民署會放行嗎？"],["林署長宏恩：我們會發臨時出境許可，讓他一次性的，會讓他回去。"],["陳委員雪生：那這樣就OK了，不然的話也要按照前例，用漁船送過去。另外，署長你知道馬祖現在的人球有多少人嗎？大陸的人球有三十幾個，你們沒關係，海巡要養，他們留置啊！還蓋個房子給他們住，提供他們起居作息，海巡很多錢喔？海洋委員會很多錢嗎？三十幾個，海巡署署長有沒有來？沒有啊！我把名單開給你，三十幾個，不是1個、2個、3個。"],["管主任委員碧玲：我們沒有留置三十幾個人，倒是有一個偷渡犯8月底的時候已經執行期滿，但是目前中國也不收，所以還收容在移民署。"],["陳委員雪生：主委，已經有三十幾個，我提供名單給你參考。"],["管主任委員碧玲：我們沒有留置三十幾個人。"],["陳委員雪生：好，那你們不要提供便當給他，把他餓死喔！"],["管主任委員碧玲：我們沒有留置三十幾個人。"],["陳委員雪生：你問一下海巡隊，好不好？"],["管主任委員碧玲：我們會後來跟委員了解。"],["陳委員雪生：會後你查證，你再來跟我回報。"],["管主任委員碧玲：但是不必查證，我們絕對沒有留置，但是我們會來向委員請教那個數字。"],["陳委員雪生：主委，海巡蓋房子，我們讓它蓋了，我當縣長的時候就核定讓它蓋，把土地給你們了。"],["管主任委員碧玲：謝謝，委員很關心這個案子，我們了解。"],["陳委員雪生：現在進度怎麼樣？"],["管主任委員碧玲：委員講的是海巡隊？"],["陳委員雪生：海巡隊。"],["管主任委員碧玲：目前都是依進度，目前蓋到一樓，我請組長說明一下細節，我有去看過。"],["陳委員雪生：組長說明一下。"],["洪組長伯昇：目前馬祖海巡的工程進度大概是百分之二十多左右，進度略為超前，目前蓋到一樓，預計明年底會整個完工。"],["陳委員雪生：當初我跟你們海巡講，你們海巡要蓋房子，你不是要蓋另外一個房子讓海巡弟兄住進去嗎？你去拿個貨櫃，租了幾十個、幾百個貨櫃，把它堆疊起來，現在漏水啦！我跟你們講用乾淨混凝土蓋嘛！"],["洪組長伯昇：那是暫時、臨時性的廳舍。"],["陳委員雪生：你蓋了以後，將來這個房子蓋好，剩下的房子給縣政府用嘛！你浪費這個錢幹什麼？我搞不懂你們海巡的後勤人員在幹什麼，我也跟你們建議了，你們也不聽，不過這算了，沒關係，木已成舟了。"],["管主任委員碧玲：臨時廳舍有需要，所以我們處理的臨時廳舍……"],["陳委員雪生：有需要就蓋個房子嘛！蓋個簡單的房子讓他住嘛……"],["管主任委員碧玲：委員，這茲事體大。"],["陳委員雪生：你們就拿了幾十個、100個貨櫃屋把它疊起來，裡面跟鬼一樣。"],["管主任委員碧玲：不是貨櫃屋疊起來。"],["陳委員雪生：就是貨櫃啊！還不是？"],["管主任委員碧玲：它不是一個貨櫃一個貨櫃疊起來，我有去看臨時廳舍。"],["陳委員雪生：主委，你關心一下，去馬祖沒參觀廳舍嗎？"],["管主任委員碧玲：有，我有去看，臨時廳舍也去看，開工典禮我也去。"],["陳委員雪生：就是貨櫃，大貨櫃一個接一個，就是貨櫃啊！"],["管主任委員碧玲：我們一定把他們的居住環境做很好的改善，但是要蓋一棟房子來作臨時廳舍，這個部分可能還涉及土地等等各方面的問題，還有未來臨時廳舍的處理……現在是臨時廳舍的問題。"],["陳委員雪生：跟土地有什麼關係？土地是我們提供給你的，土地是縣政府提供給你的，只是因為你們說錢要比較多一點，就如此而已嘛！"],["管主任委員碧玲：凡事還是靠需求，我們未來海巡隊的建築完成以後……"],["陳委員雪生：你的貨櫃到時候要搬走，好了，我不談這個。岸巡的廳舍現在怎麼樣？土地也給你啦！我也親自陪縣長去看過，已經3年了，連動都不動。"],["管主任委員碧玲：我們目前在走三階段，不會連動都不動，我們一直在走程序。"],["陳委員雪生：我們把它收回來，你看怎麼樣？我們把土地收回來。"],["管主任委員碧玲：委員，我們一直在走程序，請委員放心。"],["陳委員雪生：什麼程序嘛？"],["管主任委員碧玲：因為它必須要走三階段，所以我們目前……"],["陳委員雪生：程序要走三、四年嗎？早知道我等你們程序走完才答應你們。"],["管主任委員碧玲：我們是要維持三階段，我們一直沒辦法突破這一點，我們很希望它被當作國防設施，可是它沒辦法被當作國防設施。"],["陳委員雪生：你們跟縣長說明一下。你說走什麼程序？三階段？"],["管主任委員碧玲：對，三階段審議。"],["陳委員雪生：現在走到哪一階段了？還在一階段？還是二階段？"],["管主任委員碧玲：第二階段。"],["陳委員雪生：還在二階段？"],["管主任委員碧玲：是，在第二階段。"],["陳委員雪生：我會去找縣政府發個函給你們，我們跟你終止，你看好不好？"],["管主任委員碧玲：我知道委員一直非常關心……"],["陳委員雪生：你慢慢去三階段。"],["管主任委員碧玲：我了解委員這個是氣話，但是三階段的問題我們一直非常、非常希望能夠突破，但是畢竟我們不是國防部，所以沒辦法突破，這個部分我們跟國發單位交涉非常久。"],["陳委員雪生：當初救生大隊在那邊，我花了很多口舌把救生大隊弄走，然後把土地給你們。"],["管主任委員碧玲：我們已經走到第二階段，也算是一個突破。"],["陳委員雪生：我跟你講，你跟上面報告，再給你2個月時間，不行的話，我們終止，這個土地不給你們了，我們有我們的規劃，怎麼可能那塊土地放在那邊讓你們亂搞。"],["管主任委員碧玲：我知道委員關心的程度讓委員說了這樣的氣話，但是我們走三階段一直在努力。"],["陳委員雪生：主委，你話講再多都沒有用，閒置了三、四年，我們現在的發展讓你這樣的玩法啊？不可能的！我們現在不可能讓你這樣玩。"],["管主任委員碧玲：委員也很關心中間的設計……"],["陳委員雪生：你怎麼弄三階段、五階段是你們的事，怎麼會扯到我們呢？"],["管主任委員碧玲：所以在設計的過程中，我們也聽取地方的意見，做了很多的修正，委員也知道那些過程。"],["陳委員雪生：我不知道那個過程。"],["管主任委員碧玲：我們不是閒置，委員應該也了解。"],["陳委員雪生：署長，你會後來跟我報告一下，哪有這樣閒置在那個地方的呢？"],["張副主任委員忠龍：是，好。"],["陳委員雪生：主委，另外還有一個問題，前幾天發現一條死豬，在我們北竿的芹壁海岸發現的，這條豬發現的是紅斑點，是陽性反應、是豬瘟，你們怎麼處理？"],["管主任委員碧玲：我們按照SOP非常謹慎的處理完畢，最後焚毀和掩埋。"],["陳委員雪生：焚毀？"],["管主任委員碧玲：焚毀和掩埋。"],["陳委員雪生：你搞錯了吧，是掩埋耶！"],["管主任委員碧玲：焚毀以後才掩埋，我們不可能不焚毀而掩埋。"],["陳委員雪生：它去哪裡焚毀？在北竿芹壁哪個焚化場焚毀？那裡沒有燒毀的地方啊！"],["管主任委員碧玲：跟委員報告，根據防檢署的SOP，我們有焚毀和掩埋，事後我們會把整個影片給委員看，請委員放心，我們不會不焚毀而掩埋。"],["陳委員雪生：主委請回。召委對不起，最後一個問題，防檢署有沒有來？你們中正機場最讓人詬病的是國人進來回家歸心似箭，你們搞了一套人馬在那邊，排隊排好久、好久，我跟你講，現在正好豬瘟出來了，到底豬瘟怎麼出來的？它是在臺中發現的，不是桃園，你出來的話，海關那邊有一套防疫人員在那邊，狗聞來聞去的，裡面又搞一套，全世界哪個國家這樣搞？然後這個老闆有來找我，你這個如果不給我們做的話，我們這群人要失業了，我也從善如流啊！我也不砍你們的預算，但你服務態度要好、速度要快嘛！對不對？你那個檢查翻箱倒櫃，不是翻箱倒櫃，皮包打開、拉鍊打開，一個一個在那邊弄，共產黨也沒這樣搞啊！全世界哪一個國家是這樣？你舉例說明給我聽聽看。你是署長嗎？"],["杜署長麗華：是。委員好。這表示大家都很嚴格在執行，這個確實有其必要性，因為畢竟非洲豬瘟可以經由人為攜帶或我們腳底等等，避免會有交叉的感染；至於我們的服務態度或速度方面，我們都可以檢討。"],["陳委員雪生：你這兩套哪一國有？日本有嗎？馬來西亞有嗎？新加坡有嗎？香港、澳門有嗎？"],["杜署長麗華：在全世界已經有39個國家有非洲豬瘟……"],["陳委員雪生：有人這樣搞兩套的防疫嗎？"],["杜署長麗華：現在我們通報了，臺灣變第40個，在亞洲地區大概只有日本沒有。"],["陳委員雪生：不是，我問的是有哪一個國家搞兩套防疫，像我們中正機場這樣？"],["杜署長麗華：即便臺灣這麼嚴格，從我們手提行李的棄置桶去檢測非洲豬瘟，那個豬肉還是陽性。"],["陳委員雪生：好啦！松山跟高雄呢？松山和高雄要不要搞？多搞幾個沒關係，連馬祖也來搞，金門也來搞，問題很大啦！"],["杜署長麗華：報告委員，松山跟臺中的部分是因為腹地的關係，但是因為它全部要經過X光和檢疫犬的處理。"],["陳委員雪生：中正機場沒有X光嗎？"],["杜署長麗華：因為它人流比較多、風險比較高，所以這個部分也是幫我們旅客，因為手提安檢過，假設你被檢出，你不用被罰，但是在X光機被檢出，就會裁罰，裁罰一次就是20萬元，這其實也是協助我們國人。"],["陳委員雪生：沒關係啦，這是你講的話啦。你不要在松山機場出事情、不要在高雄出事情，你不要在金門、馬祖出事情，你也搞一套來啊！你叫那個哪一家公司也來啊！我懷疑豬瘟是海邊來的啦！今天關務署署長也在這邊，其實我跟你講，它從海邊來，海邊漁船走私的多少啊！多少豬肉、多少牛肉，你盡往金門、馬祖這邊查幹什麼呢？金門發生口蹄疫，馬祖豬肉也要管制，金門和馬祖差很遠耶！金門和馬祖沒有互通，你知道嗎？金門人到馬祖要從松山機場轉機過來，一點關連都沒有，所以你們的觀念要弄清楚，好不好？你們防疫署我覺得有狀況，這次非洲豬瘟我直覺的判斷是從海邊出現的，尤其梧棲港那邊，是從海邊出現的。"],["杜署長麗華：任何可疑的，我們都會追查。"],["陳委員雪生：國人同胞會把牛肉乾、豬肉乾帶進來？我看機率不高啦，你們要搞兩套人馬，沒完沒了了嗎？這個單位沒完沒了嗎？一直搞下去，搞兩套嗎？國人都罵死了，你知道嗎？哪一個國人回國被你們這樣搞。"],["杜署長麗華：報告委員，請體諒一下，確實基於防疫的立場，而且是重大的傳染病……"],["陳委員雪生：不是我不體諒你，是大家要體諒你。"],["杜署長麗華：還是要加強提高整個防疫的措施，所以這真的有必要，畢竟背後的產值這麼大。"],["陳委員雪生：你講得很好啊，那你松山機場也來啊！小港機場也來啊！為什麼不來？都是國際線。"],["杜署長麗華：都有在做評估，但是因為腹地的關係。"],["陳委員雪生：金門、馬祖也來啊！為什麼馬祖不搞一套，你搞一套給我，問題很大啊！也要搞兩套的防疫，是不是？你們錢很多嗎？你們去想一想，好不好？你們自己回國的時候是走哪個通道？你是走綠色通道嗎？你也去排隊。"],["杜署長麗華：假設我從日本來的話，我們走綠線就不會走那裡，但是其他39個國家進來的就一定要走手檢區。"],["陳委員雪生：署長，香港、澳門、日本、馬來西亞、泰國有搞兩套嗎？也沒看到豬瘟出現啊！"],["杜署長麗華：從棄置區的採樣送檢，陽性比率達到10%，所以我們不得不謹慎對待之。"],["陳委員雪生：我跟你講，海邊多注意一下啦，海邊啦！"],["杜署長麗華：有，我們跟海巡的協助也很密切。"],["陳委員雪生：海巡、海關，你對海邊、海岸多注意一下，不然莫名其妙這個死豬不知道從哪裡跑出來，我們馬祖都跑出來，是不是？難道是中正機場入境的？還是松山機場入境的，然後跑到馬祖傳染給豬嗎？怎麼可能！"],["杜署長麗華：所以在馬祖驗出陽性以後，我們就整個都公告禁止到11月1日，它的豬肉和所有的加工品都不能到臺灣和所有的離島。"],["陳委員雪生：還有馬祖的雞蛋不能過來，我們土生的雞蛋要檢查，臺灣的雞蛋到馬祖去也要檢查、也要貼？"],["杜署長麗華：沒有禁雞蛋。"],["陳委員雪生：禁什麼雞蛋！我們父母親在馬祖辛辛苦苦養一些土雞，女兒在臺灣坐月子，土雞帶到臺灣去，要經過你們防疫人員檢疫，請問這是什麼道理？我們是次等公民嗎？馬祖是不是中華民國的？"],["杜署長麗華：我了解的是禁豬。"],["陳委員雪生：我現在跟你講雞、鴨和羊，我們也有養羊啊！你們也說要檢疫、要防疫啊！以前要農會開證明，農會怎麼開？沒有道理嘛！是不是？我們的雞拿到臺灣來……"],["杜署長麗華：畢竟離島包括馬祖距離大陸太近了，所以那邊的風險相對高。"],["陳委員雪生：我們馬祖沒有因為這種事情而有人傷亡。"],["杜署長麗華：因為從我們的資料顯示，有很多的風險都是來自於中國大陸，所以我們更要針對邊境，尤其是離島的、靠近中國大陸的，真的要特別注意。"],["陳委員雪生：我在馬祖生活了七十幾年，我吃了以後也沒病、也沒怎樣，哪像你們這些檢疫人員，看到你們就生病，我吃了都沒病，你是看了一眼就生病，很奇怪耶！有那麼緊張嗎？"],["杜署長麗華：防疫的事情……"],["陳委員雪生：防疫要做，我絕對同意，但是你們嚴格到我們自己國人養的雞和雞生的蛋、國人養的羊，也要經過你們的防疫檢查才能進到臺灣，我們上飛機要檢查耶！我從來沒有為難過你們……因為時間的關係，召委已經站起來了。"],["杜署長麗華：請體諒，全國有一致性。"],["陳委員雪生：你們回去檢討一下我剛才所講的問題，很多鄉親打電話駡我，你知道嗎？"],["杜署長麗華：如果有檢討的空間，我們會檢討，但也請委員體諒防疫是要全國一致性，不能有任何的破口，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝陳雪生委員的質詢，謝謝署長。","洪孟楷委員，洪孟楷委員，洪孟楷委員不在。","鍾佳濱委員，鍾佳濱委員，鍾佳濱委員不在。","登記發言委員除不在場者外，其餘均已發言完畢，答詢結束。委員高金素梅、黃捷所提書面質詢列入紀錄，刊登公報；書面質詢和未及答復部分，請相關部會於一週內以書面答復並副知本會。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":244,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-15-8","speakers":["黃建賓","徐巧芯","蘇巧慧","張智倫","張宏陸","王美惠","麥玉珍","許宇甄","牛煦庭","徐欣瑩","吳琪銘","李柏毅","謝龍介","丁學忠","徐富癸","林楚茵","邱志偉","楊瓊瓔","陳雪生","高金素梅","黃捷"],"page_start":175,"meetingDate":["2025-10-29"],"gazette_id":"1148901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148901_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期內政委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請內政部部長、海洋委員會主任委員、內政部警政署署長、內政部移民署署長、海洋委員\n會海巡署署長、農業部部長、財政部關務署署長，就「防堵非洲豬瘟邊境檢疫與查緝機制之檢討\n與精進作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、審查委員徐巧芯等16人擬具「海岸巡防法第十三條\n條文修正草案」案【僅詢答】","agenda_id":"1148901_00004"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}