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這個宣導很重要趕快宣導第一年 這個施打率當然比較沒有那麼快上來不像我們這個女生打的已經是很高了但是我們目標會一樣目標 我們務必要達到這個約定的八成這是第一項第二個 各縣市它的這個施打率不一的時候我拜託行政院"},{"start":209.305,"end":230.446,"text":"國務部這邊 你一定要協助各縣市除了宣導之外 要怎麼樣去跟隨好不好 我們好好地守護我們的孩子 謝謝第二個 股災的這個問題 股值疏鬆的問題所以本期要告訴你一個數字 台灣寬負寬寬股 股值的部分是亞洲第一名"},{"start":231.755,"end":254.283,"text":"不希望看到這樣子的指標但是我們看到80%骨部這個患者他是沒有辦法獨居40%他是永久會殘廢 殘障那在這樣的情況之下我們又看到寬布骨折他每一年他每一年需要的費用要多少 14.2萬本席幫你算出來了"},{"start":255.327,"end":260.411,"text":"我們在看到因為寬布骨折五年後死亡的院長很緊張42%"},{"start":264.418,"end":290.144,"text":"42% 因為他沒有辦法運動之後經過5年死亡42%對 42%就是我們為國的統計值數字部長一直在點頭所以院長本席有一個請求也就是我們的總統他也說他針對於台灣的這個健康的目標是要降低國人不健康的餘命 對不對是 所以針對於我們長者的骨質疏鬆的篩檢"},{"start":292.011,"end":309.731,"text":"如此可以降低國人不健康餘命的這個部分呢那本席認為在我們長子的骨質疏鬆的篩檢這是非常重要的一個指標才能夠達到總統所說的這個目標所以本席具體要求"},{"start":311.212,"end":335.735,"text":"我們應該要有政策政策的支持也就是60歲以上的長者我們來做骨質疏鬆的這個篩檢骨質疏鬆的篩檢能夠提高整個健康風險的一個預警機制院長您來答應好不好我們來做好不好我請問院長數字本席已經告訴院長很清楚了"},{"start":337.765,"end":349.611,"text":"我自己都還沒有做過這個篩檢那如果有需要的話我非常感謝卓院長你的誠實真的要做本期跟你的數字我看到你一直在看我的這個"},{"start":352.382,"end":374.809,"text":"所以你也意識到這個嚴重性連院長你都還沒做過院長 連你都還沒做過你是不是去研議好不好我真的 好好不要再過嘛 對不對所以本期具體要求我們趕快去研議60歲以上我們趕快來研議讓他們可以骨質疏鬆的篩檢這個絕對是預警機制也才能夠達到總統的一個目標"},{"start":379.11,"end":397.896,"text":"謝謝我們嚴肅看待這個問題長者一旦這個發生問題行動不便之後對他生活都發生很大的障礙而且整個意志我覺得我們嚴肅來研究這個問題那你們大概研究多久會告訴我們呢因為我覺得這個對於總統的指標是非常重要的"},{"start":398.916,"end":423.481,"text":"是跟委員報告就是說現在在骨質疏鬆確實您關切的非常重要是我們的慢性病裡面第五大大家都知道高血壓 糖尿病 高血脂剛剛院長已經有指示您嚴肅的看待這個議題院長進促研議本期具體要求60歲以上我們政策支持政策支持鼓勵大家來骨質疏鬆的檢測好嗎"},{"start":427.142,"end":443.673,"text":"院長好嗎本席現在告訴你是說預防重瘀治療預警機制你要針對本席的回答院長都指示了院長到現在還沒有篩檢過你應該先幫院長篩檢"},{"start":447.575,"end":459.329,"text":"對不對 必要 必要院長謝謝你嚴肅的看待這個議題我希望盡快可以得到你的答案60歲以上我們全面來骨質輸送的一個篩檢"},{"start":462.831,"end":486.662,"text":"這個方向上我們會這個來想那至於怎麼去執行部長應該有一個說明給我們政策上來討論因為我們必須要政策支持才能夠全面的健康好嗎這個預警比什麼都還重要我嚴肅的要求也拜託盡快給本席答案這是第二個第三個男性的攝護腺癌三分鐘護一家不是護一生喔"},{"start":487.742,"end":513.659,"text":"以前我們做子宮頸癌的時候我們一起跟蕭蔣小姐一起努力推動6分鐘護一生現在這個部分呢是3分鐘護一家所以本需要告訴院長一個數字2020年呢攝護腺癌增加了9858人是男性第三大的癌症更是發生率比的比例呢是增加第一強的癌症"},{"start":514.656,"end":531.196,"text":"你要怎麼樣照顧國人你從源頭開始啊三分鐘護一個家不是護一個人而已所以我們看到女性的這個子宮頸我們從1995年開始我們開始來做我給院長報告這個成效我們的降低率七成"},{"start":532.383,"end":550.899,"text":"我們開始篩檢我們降低了7成也省了多少我們的醫藥費用所以因此本席具體要求在這種情況之下事務縣從2024年發生率已經超過子宮頸癌的發生率2025年死亡率更超過了死亡率更超過了子宮頸癌院長這麼嚴肅的一個數字告訴你沒有國人"},{"start":556.792,"end":582.265,"text":"就什么都不是啦所以你的国人健康你务必要重视所以本席在这边具体要求因为总统先生讲了2030年癌症标准化的死亡率希望要降低三分之一对不对2030年那你要怎么做所以本席在具体要求你必须请问院长事务线的这个筛选三分钟可以护一个家庭"},{"start":582.905,"end":608.18,"text":"政府你是不是盡速研議將攝護腺癌的一個篩檢列入我們國內第六癌的篩檢這個絕對可以幫助很多很多的家庭院長我拜託你好不好我們一定要讓國人健康我們朝共同這個方向來做共同這個方向來做你是答應的癌症有的是會提前發現那我們就研究他的治療的狀況有的癌症是"},{"start":608.88,"end":619.626,"text":"到末期才會發現那我們就要讓大家能夠提前來整治出來因為我們現在陸續都在做我就要發覺我們如果以80個人大概都有一二十個"},{"start":620.436,"end":646.776,"text":"初期發現他可以根治可以節省很多的醫療費用所以這個務必要做院長 我們一起來做好不好請部長一併做一個這樣的跟委員報告這個攝護腺癌會隨著高齡化盛行率會越來越高但是這個攝護腺癌的篩檢到目前各國我看起來還沒有很明確因為還有一些爭議譬如說您提到的那個就抽血檢驗PSA"},{"start":648.017,"end":656.387,"text":"部長 我已經本行已經將數字告訴你從末端結果論告訴你我的國人已經嚴重到影響我只要三分鐘的篩檢我可以呼一個家庭我們為什麼不做"},{"start":666.567,"end":693.627,"text":"我們會從整個學理上來看這個政策怎麼做我們來做好不好 院長我們會去評估怎麼做我剛剛的一句話就是有的癌症是早期可以篩檢出來的我們要研究怎麼把它治療好我們趕快來做好不好有的是癌症它是到末期才會被發現我們趕快來做好不好攝護腺的部分我們也趕快來做作為國內第六癌的篩檢好不好來照顧所有全面的國人健康跟家庭整個攝護腺癌的防治我們會提出來"},{"start":694.247,"end":702.517,"text":"是 社會性癌的防治你要提出來院長這一點我再次拜託你好不好不用拜託 我們一起努力會 會好 謝謝你接下來我們要談論我們的軍購問題軍購的特別預算1.3兆所以我在這邊首先要來跟院長來做討論"},{"start":713.37,"end":731.367,"text":"這個什麼討論呢 我們史上軍購據聞說我們要用一個特別預算1.3兆這幾天國防部也說要分七年預兆的預算軍購特別預算這個軍購的特別預算如果由貴黨的委員在美國所說的是1.3兆"},{"start":732.848,"end":747.122,"text":"所以包括像美方所謂的防空系統啊這個偵查的小型無人機啊火箭啊飛彈啊還有我們要增加台灣暫時的生產跟儲存的這個量能力都有被提及"},{"start":750.017,"end":779.617,"text":"本席所說的貴黨的委員也有在美國這樣子發布所以預計要1.3兆這是史上如果陳真這是史上最高的特別預算那過去不管藍或綠從來沒有提過那麼高的那但是我們看到這個數據如果屬實他會成為國防部呢四個四個特別預算的總和還剩超過所以在這邊本席首先要請教院長這一筆預算是會增加還是會減少請教院長"},{"start":780.717,"end":793.825,"text":"好 報告委員在本週稍早禮拜二也有委員詢問過同樣的問題那個時候我的說法是說到那個時刻為止甚至到這個時刻為止所有的案子都還沒有送到我這邊來那國防部"},{"start":796.092,"end":814.477,"text":"本席你是禮拜二現在是禮拜五請針對此時此刻來回答那個時候也好現在這個時候我都還沒有看到這個案的內容還沒看到這個案子可是本席在前幾天跟國防部長在討論部長告訴我他們的條例已經送到你行政院為什麼你們兩個不搭桿"},{"start":815.757,"end":834.014,"text":"行政院要經過業務處去做很多的審核所以最後還沒送到你這邊那這麼大這麼重大的條例都已經送到行政院來審查所以到底有沒有這一回事所以業務處跟政委是非常慎重在看內容所以還沒有到我這裡來非常慎重 所以院長你知道這個事嗎"},{"start":835.404,"end":862.157,"text":"我當然知道基於國家的國防的需求跟我們財政的規劃我們有必要強化我們自己國防我當然知道按的內容我現在還支持國家的國力防衛這個我想全部大家都會支持但是我們不能被被當成潘啊不能被當成提款機啊所以我們現在確定幾件事情確實是有這個事情那他的預算規模會超過兆元嗎請教院長"},{"start":863.03,"end":887.321,"text":"現在我沒有辦法答覆這個事情沒有辦法答覆這個事情而且經過業務處調整 經過政委審核之後的結論還沒有出來但是你剛剛告訴本席說 你知道這個事情啊事情知道 內容現在我還沒有看到事情知道 內容不知道不知道 院長 我要怎麼回答事情知道 內容不知道 那你到底知道什麼啊"},{"start":888.021,"end":911.557,"text":"跟委員報告 就是說有這樣子的一個條例要提出來有這個條例要送到行政院現在正在由政委在審議當中那詳細的這些金額都還沒有做最後的確定請問部長 因為這個是你主歧視嗎那會超過兆元嗎你貴黨的委員在美國講的是不是屬實啊"},{"start":912.758,"end":927.174,"text":"我想個別委員的發言我們都會尊重但最後確確的數字最後確確的這些數字我想還是要等行政院真正最後經過審議"},{"start":929.036,"end":944.575,"text":"院會通過之後再送到貴院來審查所以院長我們繼續討論因為國力大家一定會支持但是我們不能被當成PANA不能被當成是一個提款機你認同這個論點吧"},{"start":947.578,"end":973.43,"text":"當然我們認同所以繼續本期要跟你討論的你知道這回事內容還不是很清楚我也願意接受你的說法我說不會送來的任何案都會在業務處業務處審核會經過政委如果認為內容必須說明他會口頭來先跟我做報告如果沒有的話我們要經過政務會議政務會議來討論之後我可能會做修正再回去修正以後"},{"start":974.15,"end":996.118,"text":"完成了才會送行政院會那現在本期都很清楚本期只是告訴你因為你貴為院長這個事情知識體大所以你不可能不知道剛才你說你知道這個事但在走流程內容還沒有來跟我做報告我們可以確認是有這回事那所以本期具體再問的也就是說會不會超過兆元你現在沒辦法給我回答"},{"start":996.678,"end":1024.955,"text":"所以我們繼續來討論因為我們對於這筆預算因為是貴黨的委員在美國正式在說的所以國人對於疑點重重到底是怎麼回事我想行政院有這個責任要告訴國人這非常清楚所以一旦你們決定了是有這回事一旦你們決定了一定要告訴國人因為特別預算的必要性跟細節他必須要能夠接受監督"},{"start":1025.915,"end":1048.805,"text":"我們才不會成為人家的一個體制所以最重要的本需要看到一件事情也就是我們對美軍購到目前為止我們延遲交貨的情況之前你回答我們有委員說延遲了怎麼辦你說我們要去求償而且把所有的"},{"start":1052.086,"end":1078.019,"text":"不當利益的損失要全部收回來但是國防部馬上打臉你所以軍購是不能球場的我說的是軍購當中的商業行為啊山購才可以球場可是本期要跟你討論可是因為我們到目前為止卡托研究所他說我們美方欠我們的武器的價格還沒有回來的總共有205億美元約是台幣的6,554億"},{"start":1080.72,"end":1107.648,"text":"那彭斯前副總統他又說大概有200億美元對台的軍購他是延宕交貨的所以本席要請教院長你應該要給國人說明清楚那如果彭斯講的是對的那卡托研究所講的也是對的那我們國人會心想我繳了錢我拿不到這個武器那我們又不能球場"},{"start":1109.518,"end":1129.568,"text":"我們怎麼辦呢 我們怎麼辦呢 你的檢核機制怎麼樣 你的交貨機制怎麼做呢這個是國人必須要了解的嘛委員能不能讓我說明一下 第一個卡托研究所的統計是指美國對台的軍售案 他知會國會的總金額對啊對啊 205億美元嘛"},{"start":1131.289,"end":1148.103,"text":"那個不是我們所謂延宕交付的金額那我們現在目前目前主要的武器裝備我們大略為25項25案有很多部分都已經陸續在交易請問"},{"start":1150.445,"end":1163.671,"text":"包括延宕的有多少對 我跟您報告一下包括已經交付了像托斯2V M1A2海馬制標槍這些等等那延宕的這個部分大概跟委員報告一下現在就是AGM-154C飛彈還有F16V還有一個MK48的重舉儀壘大概是這三項屬於延戰當時我們約定的是從2023年"},{"start":1178.977,"end":1191.272,"text":"分為四年來交到2026年那到現在今年是2025年年底我們交了幾架一架都沒有請問院長明年是底線2026年F16V明年會不會回到台灣"},{"start":1197.213,"end":1222.201,"text":"跟委員報告請教院長會不會我想詳細的部分還是容我跟委員做個報告部長你稍等我們講原則性的問題我現在就是回答一個原則你要跟我講到細節本席告訴你你也提到66架的F16V戰機那底線我們當時約定的2026年現在2025年嘛院長對不對那現在我還沒看到半隻"},{"start":1222.961,"end":1229.444,"text":"跟委員報告那請問一個原則我們跟他約定好的2026年我們台灣會不會看到F16V的戰機在台灣看到會還是不會你告訴我會還是不會嘛部長說明"},{"start":1240.35,"end":1263.582,"text":"戈恩委員報告目前在線組裝的總機數有50架正在在線組裝而且他們每日以兩班之20小時的方式加速戰機生產我們預划會在今年的年底以前會完成10架機的組裝然後會進行這個試飛取得試航認證之後我們在明年會獲得交機"},{"start":1265.323,"end":1283.177,"text":"如果講說要獲得66架的全數獲得66架的交機確實具有挑戰性沒關係 本席請教因為到2026年 院長我們已經討論國內希望看到我們的國力是強的而不是被當成攀崖那2026年我們預計會有幾架會回來"},{"start":1285.858,"end":1301.324,"text":"我現在沒有辦法明確的回復委員的問題是因為我只能說生產線在線組裝有50架同時在線組裝那組裝完成之後還要進行這些相關的測試請停止你的回答請停止你的回答 院長"},{"start":1305.752,"end":1334.467,"text":"剛剛部長說明的非常的清楚有努力已經在進行之當中因為經過我們沒有辦法求償因為我們一直希望我們買的東西能夠回來所以再一次請教F16V我們明年可以提價回來剛剛部長已經答覆過了答覆過什麼 提價已經在努力當中已經在努力當中會不會回來沒有辦法告訴我所以我停止他的所以請教院長啊"},{"start":1335.841,"end":1350.949,"text":"明年會不會回來因為我們的約定就是明年公開討論我國國防軍機有幾架在這裡公開討論我覺得不是一個適合的方式這個是公開的訊息66架約定要在你這麼樣說法"},{"start":1352.39,"end":1370.155,"text":"本來我對你是很尊敬的你怎麼會這樣子說呢我們買的東西給國人報告了本來就要回來啊你怎麼會這樣子扭曲呢我希望委員能夠透過其他的方式來跟國防部詳細的問清楚很多人都會希望知道中華民國空軍到底有多少飛機這是不該的訊息耶"},{"start":1370.695,"end":1383.675,"text":"這是公開的訊息耶 66架2026年我們是這個期間要交耶公開的訊息是我們向美國採購66架的飛機但是什麼時候有多少架在哪一天多少時間會進來我認為這個不應該開公開的討論"},{"start":1386.599,"end":1406.033,"text":"院長 本期只有問你2026年會嫁回來你跟國防部長都沒有辦法告訴我們我也希望你冷靜去思考然後跟國人報告 這非常重要我覺得委員可以用其他的方式來瞭解這個不應該在這裡公開討論沒有辦法交的時候 他不只是因為沒有辦法交"},{"start":1407.133,"end":1434.946,"text":"不是你的戰機沒有辦法回來因為你的防衛布局 你的訓練騎乘你的戰力策略 都整個會延宕國人希望的是 我們花了這麼多錢希望能夠得到安心 得到安全因為他不是只有一個問題國防部一定會有所因應的有所因應 你就要告訴國人你為什麼問的都不知道呢所以院長 本期告訴你我們等不到武器 這是合作嗎還是怨大頭"},{"start":1437.505,"end":1464.384,"text":"我想跟委員報告哪有一個7月到2026年我們問你了今年2025年2026年什麼時候要回來你說不能講跟委員報告我想美國政府已經成立了專案小組我們來監管這些運送的進步成立了專案小組 謝謝部長本期具體建議我們的院長我們一定要管控一定要有機制去解決"},{"start":1465.444,"end":1473.194,"text":"一定要有機制去解決交不回來的我們什麼方法可以交這非常重要國人期待的是一個安全"},{"start":1474.144,"end":1500.069,"text":"跟一個誠信那接下來本席要再請教我們的軍控是如此但是本席要跟你討論的是軍人家庭的問題立法院三讀通過行政院沒有提復議總統府公布之他已經公布了我們在日上看不到我問了主席長主席長說國防部本來就沒有編我問了主席長本席問主席長說誰給你指令啊"},{"start":1501.209,"end":1521.159,"text":"你組織長本來就是要我們的預算你要怎麼樣去穩定的一個編列你有這個責任所以他告訴我說國防部沒有編我說那組織長你有沒有給院長建議請問院長組織長有沒有給你建議立法院三個通過總統府公告你都不聽總統的話你沒有編耶"},{"start":1524.464,"end":1543.385,"text":"那是主席講告訴你不要編嗎預算要穩定預算要穩定就是要堅持行政院編列預算立法院審議預算的這種憲法層級的法律問題所以依照憲法的規定依照預算法當立法院大幅要求行政院增加稅數的時候必須"},{"start":1545.647,"end":1574.699,"text":"跟徵詢行政院也要找出說來源是說出的來源這個都沒有旅行這樣的做這個都沒有旅行這樣的過程行政院沒有副業總統府公佈制你是行政院長總統公佈之後的誰告訴你不要變有沒有人告訴你說不要變我認為這個違反了你有沒有人我認為這個違反預算法跟憲法所以我希望"},{"start":1575.419,"end":1596.514,"text":"在總統公佈之後我們才有資格能力提出大法官的解釋我希望在大法官解釋之後依照解釋的結果如果違憲的時候我就變成違憲負議的結果你都知道我再負議一次也只是增加你的麻煩而已"},{"start":1597.455,"end":1612.391,"text":"哇 謝謝你的貼心啊但是你還是要依法行政啊你本身行政要不服役然後你說你服役的結果你知道所以你不服役你可以更加的違法嗎那每次行政院服役你們就罵行政院那現在這一屆又罵行政院不服役"},{"start":1613.031,"end":1619.638,"text":"縣長 本席李慶哲來跟你討論我自己告訴你我是顧著你演你沒有故意 你竟然不依法你這嚴重的違法有誰告訴你可以違法不要編嗎?縣法告訴我"},{"start":1628.227,"end":1648.041,"text":"憲法告訴你 你自己沒有復義大法 你所謂的釋憲沒有結果你就要依法行政 我們是民主法治國家對不對 四憲應該要有結果不可以讓四憲沒有結果 大法官停擺四憲結果還沒有出來 你可以如此違法亂紀嗎因為大法官的憲法訴訟法被修改到現在沒有不要再欺負我們的軍人了啦"},{"start":1650.909,"end":1658.575,"text":"對不對 你的預算如果照這個一年300億 你的經貿一次一點多照我們今年對國軍的待遇已經增加了171億 我們哪裡欺負軍人"},{"start":1662.927,"end":1670.129,"text":"171億哪裡欺負軍人所以我們要依照憲法辦事憲法告訴我必須等待憲法的釋憲我沒有欺負今天已經編了171億了"},{"start":1687.875,"end":1711.851,"text":"你們有沒有討論要編回來我們已經給你機會如果大法官解釋這個是合憲的我們就編回來可以追溯到今年一月大法官解釋如果合憲我們就編而且追加的編追溯到今年的一月如果大法官解釋違憲我就不能成為一個違憲的院長"},{"start":1713.052,"end":1728.597,"text":"院長你不能成為違憲的院長但是你不能成為一個違法的院長接下來本市要跟你討論接下來本市要跟你討論新台幣的改版有預估要做嗎央行有提出因為基於要花多少錢"},{"start":1731.372,"end":1746.96,"text":"准备央行提出了他在朝鲜委员会报告了之前也有委员询问过这个问题说有500亿可是央行说500亿是包括那个铜币钱币那钱币如果不需要的话会节省到400多亿应该只有好像40亿是不是"},{"start":1748.835,"end":1763.349,"text":"應該是40億左右那一張可以用三張來算因為現階段我要告訴院長因為現階段啦人民通膨問題我們的社福預算都非常的緊縮"},{"start":1764.79,"end":1779.746,"text":"地方建設行政院說沒錢很緊縮那這個階段你們說一年要51到100億然後從117年開始這是央行給我們的數字要開始來改版改版"},{"start":1780.547,"end":1797.893,"text":"你們告訴我說是因為違閉那現在的違閉很多嗎沒有我們是說現在已經是24年了24年跟其他的國家來比較我們非常的慢了而且我們改版只有增加24年裡面只有增加1.5塊錢"},{"start":1805.276,"end":1810.943,"text":"現在的成本一張是3.5元院長他告訴你只有增加1.5元換句話說一張要5塊錢院長"},{"start":1815.29,"end":1838.225,"text":"你冷靜再去思考 此時此刻通膨 年輕人買不起房子 社福預算不夠你在這個現階段 錢可以用的你這個階段要去改版改版不是只有改那一張版而且你所有未來 你的ATM 你所有相關的清償那個相較之下 金額不高"},{"start":1840.066,"end":1847.941,"text":"金額不夠就是隱性的成本 軟體都要所以院長你審思啊 聽聽民意這就是院長所說的世上苦人多"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":335,"blocks":[["楊委員瓊瓔：（16時32分）敬愛的院會主席、韓院長，卓院長所領軍的行政院團隊，以及新聞界的朋友，我們旁聽席的好朋友，楊瓊瓔發言。主席，首先邀請卓院長。"],["主席：麻煩再請卓院長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：委員好。謝謝你。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：院長好。謝謝。首先來探討身體健康的議題，我們看到臺灣成為東亞第一個提供男性完整接種兩劑HPV疫苗的國家，本席非常感謝，因為本席長期推動國中男生納入HPV疫苗施打的政策，終於在今年的9月份正式上路。我要謝謝行政院以及衛福部，在這麼努力當中，從國中女生開始來打，當時promise的是，如果國中女生打了八成，我們就來討論國中男生的部分，因為不分性別一定要健康。我們終於上路了，也成為亞洲第一個提供男生完整兩劑疫苗接種的國家，非常感謝。","但是政策推下來的時候，我們要怎麼樣去落實？在你們衛福部國健署有一個KPI指標，也就是要能夠達到八成，你們預估是不是可以達到？第二個，院長，如果22個縣市施打的效率不一，我們政府要怎麼樣協助？因為少子化問題，對於我們孩子的健康一定要全力去維護，而且我們已經達陣成功。所以本席接下來跟你討論的是，我們要怎麼樣去協助，讓他們能夠達到KPI八成。請說明。"],["卓院長榮泰：執行的問題先請部長說明。"],["石部長崇良：謝謝委員非常關心，這確實跟孩子的健康有關係，HPV我們過去都是認為這個疫苗跟子宮頸癌……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：本席非常的了解，所以請針對本席的提問。"],["石部長崇良：但是對於男生打這個……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你的目標是不是還是一樣，要達到八成？"],["石部長崇良：會，我們目標是一樣的。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：第二個，各縣市樣態不一樣的時候，你要怎麼去協助？怎麼樣去跟催？"],["石部長崇良：對，跟委員報告，因為今年是第一年開始，過去大家觀念認為這個跟子宮頸癌相關，不知道這其實跟男性頭頸癌是相關的，所以我們現在正在大量的……宣導很重要。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：趕快宣導。"],["石部長崇良：第一年施打率當然比較沒有那麼快上來，不像女生施打率已經很高了，但是我們的目標會一樣，這個部分我們會……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，目標務必要達到約定的八成。"],["石部長崇良：會。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：這是第一項。第二、各縣市施打率不一的時候，拜託行政院、衛福部一定要協助各縣市。"],["石部長崇良：我們會看各縣市的施打率來調整。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：除了宣導之外，要怎麼樣去跟催，好不好？我們好好的守護我們的孩子，謝謝。","第二個是骨災的問題，就是骨質疏鬆的問題，本席要告訴你一個數字，臺灣髖骨骨折的發生率是亞洲第一名，我們不希望看到這樣子的指標。我們看到80%髖部骨折患者沒有辦法獨居，而且40%會永久殘障；在這樣的情況之下，我們又看到髖部骨折患者每人每年需要14.2萬的費用，本席幫你算出來了，然後因為髖部骨折5年後死亡的有42%，院長，令人很緊張，因為他沒有辦法運動。"],["卓院長榮泰：經過5年死亡的有42%。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：對，這是我們衛福部統計的數字，部長一直在點頭。所以院長，本席有一個請求，我們的總統也說臺灣健康的目標是要降低國人不健康的餘命，對不對？"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以長者骨質疏鬆的篩檢可降低國人不健康餘命，本席認為長者骨質疏鬆的篩檢是非常重要的指標，才能夠達到總統所說的目標。所以本席具體要求，我們應該要政策支持，也就是60歲以上的長者都要接受骨質疏鬆的篩檢，提高整個健康風險的預警機制，院長，你答應來做，好不好？院長。"],["石部長崇良：跟委員報告……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：我請問院長，數字本席已經很清楚的告訴院長了。"],["卓院長榮泰：我自己都還沒有做過這個篩檢，如果有需要的話，我想……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：非常感謝卓院長的誠實，真的要做，我看到你一直在看本席給你的數字，所以你也意識到這個問題的嚴重性……"],["卓院長榮泰：站太久會不會受傷？"],["楊委員瓊瓔：院長，連你都還沒做過，你支持去研議，好不好？"],["卓院長榮泰：好。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你沒有做過嘛！"],["卓院長榮泰：我沒有做過。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以本席具體要求趕快去研議，針對60歲以上的長者進行骨質疏鬆的篩檢，這個絕對是預警機制，也才能夠達到總統的目標，多久時間？"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員，我們嚴肅看待這個問題。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：嚴肅看待這個議題。"],["卓院長榮泰：長者一旦發生問題，行動不便之後，他生活都產生很大的障礙，而且整個意志……我們嚴肅來研究這個問題。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：那你們大概研究多久會告訴我們呢？因為我覺得這對於總統的目標是非常重要的元素。"],["石部長崇良：是，跟委員報告，您關切的非常重要，現在骨質疏鬆已經在我們慢性病裡面排名第五大了，大家都知道高血壓、糖尿病、高血脂，其實第五大的就是骨鬆。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：對，剛剛院長已經有指示您嚴肅的看待這個議題。"],["石部長崇良：對，我們會來評估。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：院長，儘速研議，本席具體要求60歲以上，我們以政策支持。"],["石部長崇良：不過也跟委員報告……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：鼓勵大家來做骨質疏鬆的檢測，好嗎？"],["石部長崇良：今年我們對骨鬆……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：院長，好嗎？"],["石部長崇良：用藥也有放寬喔！"],["楊委員瓊瓔：院長，好嗎？"],["石部長崇良：對於高風險的……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：本席現在告訴你，預防重於治療，這是預警機制，你要針對本席的問題回答啊！院長都指示了，院長到現在還沒有篩檢過，你應該先幫院長篩檢啊！對不對？必要！必要！院長，謝謝你嚴肅的看待這個議題，我希望儘快可以得到你的答案，60歲以上全面來做骨質疏鬆的篩檢。"],["卓院長榮泰：方向上我們會這樣來思考，至於怎麼去執行，部長應該有一個說明給我們，我們在政策上再來討論。"],["石部長崇良：會有一個完整的評估。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：因為必須要有政策支持，才能夠全面的健康，好嗎？這個預警比什麼都還重要，我嚴肅的要求也拜託儘快給本席答案，這是第二個。"],["卓院長榮泰：好的。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：第三個是男性攝護腺癌，「三分鐘護一家」，不是「護一生」喔！以前我們做子宮頸癌部分的時候，我們跟蕭薔小姐一起努力推動「六分鐘護一生」，現在這個部分是「三分鐘護一家」。本席要告訴院長一個數字，2024年攝護腺癌增加了9,858人，為男性第三大癌症，更是發生率增加比例第一高的癌症。你要怎麼樣照顧國人？你從源頭開始啊！三分鐘護一個家，不是護一個人而已。","我們看到女性子宮頸癌，從1995年我們開始做，我給院長報告這個成效，降低率是七成。我們開始篩檢後，降低率是七成，省下了多少的醫藥費用。因此本席具體要求，在這樣的情況之下，攝護腺癌在2024年發生率已超過子宮頸癌的發生率；2025年「死亡率」更超過了子宮頸癌。院長，這麼嚴肅的一個數字告訴你，沒有國人就什麼都不是啊！所以你的國人健康你務必要重視。","本席在這邊具體要求，因為總統講了，2030年癌症標準化死亡率希望要降低三分之一，對不對？"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：2030年，那你要怎麼做？所以本席再具體要求，請問院長，攝護腺癌的篩檢，三分鐘可以護一個家庭，政府是不是儘速研議將攝護腺癌篩檢列入國內的第六癌篩檢？這個絕對可以幫助很多很多的家庭。院長，我拜託你，好不好？"],["卓院長榮泰：不用拜託……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：我們一定要讓國人健康。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們共同朝這個方向來做。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：共同朝這個方向來做，你是答應的？"],["卓院長榮泰：因為癌症有的是會提前發現，那我們就研究它的治療狀況；有的癌症是到末期才會發現……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：對……"],["卓院長榮泰：那我們就要讓它能夠提前診治出來。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：因為我們現在陸續都在做，我現在發覺，如果以八十個人，大概都有一、二十個……"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：初期發現它可以根治，可以節省很多醫療費用，所以這個務必要做。院長，我們……"],["卓院長榮泰：好的。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：一起來做，好不好？"],["卓院長榮泰：請部長一併做一個這樣的規劃。"],["石部長崇良：跟委員報告，攝護腺癌會隨著高齡化而盛行率越來越高。但是攝護腺癌的篩檢，到目前就各國我看起來，還沒有很明確，因為還有一些爭議，譬如您提到的那個就是抽血檢驗PSA，但是因為它有很多……看到……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：部長，我已經……"],["石部長崇良：但是整個政策上……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：本席已經將數字告訴你，從末端……"],["石部長崇良：我懂、我懂……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你懂……"],["石部長崇良：所以整個政策上我們會評估。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：從末端、結果論告訴你，我們的國人已經嚴重到影響……只要三分鐘的篩檢，可以護一個家庭，我們為什麼不做？"],["石部長崇良：我們會從整個學理上來看這個政策要怎麼做。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：我們來做，好不好？院長。"],["石部長崇良：我們會去評估怎麼做。"],["卓院長榮泰：我剛剛的一句話就是，有的癌症是早期可以篩檢出來的。"],["石部長崇良：對。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：是。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們就研究怎麼把它治療好，好不好？"],["楊委員瓊瓔：我們趕快來做，好不好？"],["卓院長榮泰：但有的是癌症，它是到末期才會被發現的。"],["石部長崇良：對。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，我們趕快來做，好不好？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們提前來做，好。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：攝護腺癌的部分，我們也趕快來做，作為國內第六癌篩檢，好不好？全面照顧所有國人的健康跟家庭，院長，好不好？院長？"],["石部長崇良：整個攝護腺癌的防治，我們會提出來。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：是，攝護腺癌的防治你要提出來。"],["石部長崇良：對、對。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：院長，這一點我再次拜託你，好不好？"],["卓院長榮泰：不用拜託，我們一起努力。會、會，會……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：會嘛？"],["卓院長榮泰：會。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，謝謝你。接下來我們要談論軍購問題，軍購的特別預算1.3兆，我在這邊首先要跟院長來討論，做什麼討論呢？據聞我們要用一個特別預算1.3兆，這幾天國防部也說軍購特別預算要分七年……這個軍購特別預算如果如貴黨委員在美國所說的是1.3兆，包括像美方所謂的防空系統、偵查的小型無人機、火箭、飛彈，還有我們要增加臺灣戰時的生產跟儲存的量能、能力，都有被提及。就本席所說的，貴黨的委員也有在美國這樣子發布，說預計要1.3兆，如果成真，這是史上最高的特別預算。過去不管藍或綠，從來沒有提過那麼高的，但是我們看到，這個數據如果屬實，它會成為國防部四個特別預算的總合甚至還超過。","所以在這邊本席首先要請教院長，這筆預算是會增加，還是會減少？"],["卓院長榮泰：報告委員，本週稍早（禮拜二）也有委員詢問過同樣的問題，那個時候我的說法是說，到那個時刻為止，甚至到這個時刻為止，所有的案子都還沒有送到我這邊來。國防部……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：院長，那是禮拜二，現在是禮拜五，請針對此時此刻來回答。"],["卓院長榮泰：對，我說那個時候也好，現在這個時候也好，我都還沒有看到這個案子的內容。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：還沒看到這個案子的內容？"],["卓院長榮泰：還沒有看到這個案子的內容。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：可是本席前幾天跟國防部長在討論啊！部長告訴我，他們的條例已經送到行政院了啊！為什麼你們兩個不搭嘎呢？"],["卓院長榮泰：行政院要經過業務處去做很多的審核……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以還沒送到你這邊？"],["卓院長榮泰：還要經過政委……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：這麼重大的條例都已經送到行政院來審查……"],["卓院長榮泰：所以業務處……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以到底有沒有這回事？"],["卓院長榮泰：業務處跟政委非常慎重在看內容，所以還沒有到我這裡來。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：非常慎重？所以院長，你知道這個事情嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：我當然知道基於……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：當然知道，好，很好！"],["卓院長榮泰：基於國家的國防需求跟財政的規劃，我們有必要強化我們自己的國防，我當然知道，但是案子的內容我現在還不……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：是！院長，支持國家的國力和防衛，這個我想大家全部都會支持，但是我們不能被當成「盤仔」，不能被當成提款機啊！所以我們現在要確定幾件事情，確實是有這回事，那它的預算規模會超過兆元嗎？請教院長。"],["卓院長榮泰：現在我還沒辦法答復這個事情，因為我沒有看到內容。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：沒有辦法答復這個事情，但是條例已經送到……"],["卓院長榮泰：而且經過業務處調整、經過政委審核之後的結論、建議還沒有出來。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：但是你剛剛告訴本席說你知道這個事情啊！"],["卓院長榮泰：事情知道，內容現在我還沒有看到。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：事情知道，內容不知道？部長、院長，我都不知道要怎麼質詢了！"],["顧部長立雄：跟委員報告，我想……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：事情知道，內容不知道，那你到底知道什麼啊？"],["卓院長榮泰：請部長答復。"],["顧部長立雄：跟委員報告，就是有這樣的一個條例要提出來……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：有這樣的條例是您告訴我的啊！"],["顧部長立雄：有這個條例送到行政院，正在由政委審議當中，詳細的金額都還沒有做最後的確定。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：請教部長，因為這是由你主其事，那會超過兆元嗎？貴黨委員在美國講的是否屬實？是不是屬實？"],["顧部長立雄：個別委員的發言我們都會予以尊重，但……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：予以尊重是承認囉？"],["顧部長立雄：但最後確切的這些數字，還是要等行政院經過審議，院會通過之後，然後再送到貴院來審查。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：是，這當然！所以院長，我們再繼續討論。也就是說，因為國力，大家一定會支持，但是我們不能被當成「盤仔」，不能當成是一個提款機嘛！你認同這個論點吧？"],["卓院長榮泰：當然，我們是持這個原則。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：當然認同嘛！所以本席要繼續跟你討論，你知道這回事，內容還不是很清楚，我也願意接受你的說法。"],["卓院長榮泰：好，我是說，部會送來的任何案都會在業務處，業務處審核之後會經過政委，政委如果認為內容必須說明，他會口頭先來跟我做報告，如果沒有的話，我們要經過政務會議，政務會議討論之後，我可能會做修正，再回去修正以後，完成了才會送行政院院會，現在……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：謝謝、謝謝。流程本席都很清楚，本席只是告訴你，因為你貴為院長，茲事體大，這件事你不可能不知道，剛才你說你知道這個事情，但是在走流程……"],["卓院長榮泰：內容還沒有來跟我做報告。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：對、對、對，我們可以確認是有這回事，但是本席具體問的會不會超過兆元，你現在沒有辦法給我回答，所以我們繼續來討論。因為這筆預算是貴黨委員在美國正式說的，所以國人對此疑點重重，到底是怎麼回事？我想行政院有這個責任告訴國人，這是非常清楚的。所以是有這回事，一旦你們決定了，一定要告訴國人，因為特別預算的必要性和細節必須要能接受監督，我們才不會成為人家的提款機……"],["顧部長立雄：跟委員報告，這個當然要送到立法院來接受監督。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以最重要的，本席要看到一件事情，就是我們對美軍購到目前為止是有延遲交貨的情況，之前我們有委員問：延遲了怎麼辦？你回答說我們要去求償，而且要把所有不當利益的損失全部收回來。但是國防部馬上打臉你，說軍購是不能求償的，商購才可以求償。"],["卓院長榮泰：我說的是軍購當中的商業行為……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：商購才可以求償。"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：可是本席要跟你討論，因為到目前為止，美國華府智庫卡托研究所說，美方欠我們的、還沒有回來的武器價格總共有205億美元，約是臺幣6,554億；彭斯前副總統又說大概有200億美元對臺軍購是延宕交貨的。所以本席要請教院長，你應該要給國人說明清楚，如果彭斯講的是對的，卡托研究所講的也是對的，我們國人會心想，我繳了錢，我拿不到武器，我們又不能求償，我們要怎麼辦呢？"],["卓院長榮泰：這部分請部長說明清楚，回來的狀況……"],["顧部長立雄：報告委員……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：我們怎麼辦？你的檢核機制怎麼樣？你的交貨機制怎麼做呢？"],["卓院長榮泰：請部長說明，部長也是需要很清楚的做一個說明。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：這個是國人必須要了解的嘛！"],["顧部長立雄：委員能不能讓我說明一下？第一個，卡托研究所的統計是指美國對臺的軍售案，他知會國會的總金額。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：對啊、對啊！205億美元嘛！"],["顧部長立雄：那個不是我們所謂延宕交付的金額，我們現在目前主要的武器裝備，大略為25項、25案，很多部分都已經陸續在交易，包括……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：延宕的有多少？"],["顧部長立雄：對，我會跟您報告一下……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：延宕的有多少？"],["顧部長立雄：包括已經交付的像拖式2B、M1A2、海馬斯、標槍這些等等……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：請問延宕的有多少？"],["顧部長立雄：延宕的部分大概跟委員報告一下……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：延宕的有多少？"],["顧部長立雄：現在就是AGM-154C飛彈，還有F-16V，還有一個MK-48的重型魚雷……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，你講到F-16V，66架，當時我們約定的是從2023年分4年交機到2026年，到現在今年是2025年年底，他們交了幾架？"],["顧部長立雄：跟委員報告……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：1架都沒有！"],["顧部長立雄：跟委員報告……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：請問院長，明年是底線，明年2026年F-16V會不會回到臺灣？"],["顧部長立雄：跟委員報告……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：請教院長，會不會？"],["顧部長立雄：不是……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：請教院長，會不會？"],["顧部長立雄：我想詳細的部分，還是容我跟委員做個報告。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：部長，你稍等，我們講原則性的問題。"],["顧部長立雄：我現在就是要回答一個原則……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你要跟我講到細節，本席告訴你，你也提到66架的F-16V戰機，我們當時約定的底線是2026年，現在是2025年，院長，對不對？但是現在我還沒看到半架。"],["顧部長立雄：跟委員報告……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：請問一個原則，我們跟他約定好的2026年，我們臺灣會不會看到F-16V的戰機？會不會在臺灣看到？會不會？"],["卓院長榮泰：請部長說明。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：會還是不會？你告訴我會還是不會嘛！"],["卓院長榮泰：請部長說明。"],["顧部長立雄：跟委員報告，目前在線組裝的總機數，有50架正在在線組裝，而且他們每日以兩班制、20小時的方式加速戰機生產，我們預劃在今年的年底以前會完成10架機的組裝，然後會進行試飛，取得適航認證之後，我們在明年會獲得交機……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，非常好！"],["顧部長立雄：但如果講要獲得66架的……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：請問明年會交幾架？"],["顧部長立雄：全數獲得66架的交機，確實具有挑戰性。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：沒關係，本席請教，因為到2026年，院長，我們已經討論了，國人希望看到我們的國力是強的，而不是被當作「盤仔」，2026年我們預計有幾架會回來？"],["顧部長立雄：我現在沒有辦法明確回復委員的問題是因為我只能說生產線在線組裝，有50架同時在線組裝，組裝完成之後，還要進行這些相關的測試之後……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，請停止你的回答。"],["顧部長立雄：我想我們……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：請停止你的回答。","院長，剛剛部長說明得非常的清楚，有努力，已經在進行當中，因為軍購我們沒有辦法求償，我們一直希望我們買的東西能夠回來，所以再一次請教，F-16V，我們明年可以有幾架回來？"],["卓院長榮泰：剛剛部長已經答復過了，我想……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：答復過什麼？幾架？"],["卓院長榮泰：已經在努力當中。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：已經在努力當中？會不會回來？"],["卓院長榮泰：報告委員，現在……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：沒有辦法告訴我，所以我停止他的回答……"],["卓院長榮泰：我們這裡公開討論這樣的……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以請教院長！"],["卓院長榮泰：報告委員，我們在公開……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：明年會不會回來？因為我們的約定就是明年啊！"],["卓院長榮泰：公開討論我國國防軍機有幾架，在這裡公開討論，我覺得不是一個適合的方式，好不好？"],["楊委員瓊瓔：卓院長，這個是公開的訊息，66架約定要在……"],["卓院長榮泰：是啊！"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你這麼樣的說法，本來我對你是很尊敬的，你怎麼會這樣說呢？"],["卓院長榮泰：很多人都想知道……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：我們買的東西給國人報告，本來就要回來啊！你怎麼會這樣扭曲呢？"],["卓院長榮泰：我希望委員能夠透過其他的方式來跟國防部詳細的問清楚，很多人都希望知道中華民國空軍到底有多少飛機……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你要透過其他的方式，這是公開的訊息啊！"],["卓院長榮泰：對啦！"],["楊委員瓊瓔：這是公開的訊息，66架在2026年……"],["卓院長榮泰：公開的訊息是……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：是這個期間要交耶！"],["卓院長榮泰：公開的訊息是我們向美國採購66架飛機，但是什麼時候有多少架、在哪一天、多少時間會進來，我認為這個不應該公開討論。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：院長，本席只有問你2026年會有幾架回來，你跟國防部長都沒有辦法告訴我們，我希望你能冷靜思考，然後跟國人報告，這非常重要，因為這是人民的納稅錢。"],["卓院長榮泰：委員可以用其他的方式來了解，這個不應該在這裡公開討論。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：而且沒有辦法交機，不只是沒有辦法交，你的戰機沒有辦法回來，而是你的防衛布局、訓練期程、戰力策略等都整個會延宕，我們花了這麼多錢，國人希望能夠得到安心、得到安全……"],["卓院長榮泰：我相信國防部一定會有所因應。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：因為它不是只有一個問題而已，對不對？國防部有所因應，那你就要告訴國人啊！為什麼問你們，你們都不知道呢？"],["卓院長榮泰：這不是告訴國人的問題。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：院長，本席告訴你，我們等不到武器，這是合作嗎？還是冤大頭？"],["卓院長榮泰：請部長說明。"],["顧部長立雄：跟委員報告……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：哪有一個契約到2026年，而我問你今年2025年、2026年什麼時候要回來，你說不能講！"],["顧部長立雄：跟委員報告，美國政府已經成立了專案小組，我們會來監管這些軍售的進度。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，成立了專案小組，謝謝部長。本席具體建議院長，這個問題一定要管控，一定要有機制解決，交不回來的，什麼方法可以交回來？這個非常重要，國人期待的是一個安全跟誠信。","接下來本席要再請教，我們的軍購如此，但是本席要跟你討論的是軍人加薪的問題。立法院三讀通過，行政院沒有提覆議，總統已經公布了，卻看不到預算編列，我問主計長，主計長說國防部本來就沒有編，本席再問主計長，是誰給他的指令？主計長本來就有責任把我們的預算穩定編列，他告訴我說國防部沒有編，我就問主計長有沒有給院長建議？請問院長，主計長有沒有給你建議？立法院三讀通過，總統已經公布了，你都不聽總統的話，你沒有編欸！是主計長告訴你不要編嗎？有沒有這回事？"],["卓院長榮泰：報告委員，預算要穩定，就是要堅持行政院編列預算、立法院審議預算這種憲法層級的法律問題，依照憲法規定、依照預算法，當立法院大幅要求行政院增加歲出的時候，必須徵詢行政院，也要找出歲出財源，但都沒有履行這樣的過程。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：卓院長，行政院沒有覆議欸！總統已經公布了，你是行政院長，是主計長叫你不要編嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：總統公布之後的法律……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：誰告訴你不要編？有沒有人告訴你不要編？"],["卓院長榮泰：我認為這個違反……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你違法了，有沒有人告訴你不要編？"],["卓院長榮泰：我認為這個違反預算法跟憲法，所以在總統公布之後，我們才有資格、能力聲請大法官的解釋，我希望在大法官解釋之後，依照解釋的結果，合憲……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：大法官的釋憲還沒有完成、還沒有結果的時候，你就要依法行政欸！"],["卓院長榮泰：如果是違憲，我就變成違憲……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：而且行政院沒有覆議欸！你是行政院長欸！"],["卓院長榮泰：覆議的結果你都知道，我再覆議一次，也只增加你的麻煩而已。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：哇！謝謝你的貼心，但是你還是要依法行政，行政院本身不覆議，然後說覆議的結果你知道，所以你不覆議，你可以更加違法嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：每次行政院覆議，你們就罵行政院，現在這一件又罵行政院不覆議！"],["楊委員瓊瓔：院長，本席理性的跟你討論，我是顧著你欸！"],["卓院長榮泰：對啊！覆議的結果你也知道，我也知道啊！"],["楊委員瓊瓔：我是顧著你欸！你沒有覆議，竟然又不依法，這是嚴重的違法！"],["卓院長榮泰：總統公告之後……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：請問，有誰告訴你可以違法不要編？"],["卓院長榮泰：憲法告訴我。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：有沒有告訴你？"],["卓院長榮泰：憲法告訴我。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：憲法告訴你？你自己沒有覆議，你所謂的釋憲沒有結果，你就要依法行政，我們是民主法治國家，對不對？"],["卓院長榮泰：釋憲應該要有結果，不可以讓釋憲沒有結果，大法官停擺……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：釋憲結果還沒有出來，你可以如此違法亂紀嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：是啊！因為大法官的憲法訴訟法被修改到現在沒有……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：不要再欺負我們軍人了，對不對？預算部分，如果照這個一年300億……"],["卓院長榮泰：我們今年對……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：軍購一次一點多兆，你怎麼不照顧我們的軍人呢？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們今年針對國軍待遇已經增加了171億，我們哪裡欺負軍人！"],["楊委員瓊瓔：院長，我們……"],["卓院長榮泰：171億，哪裡是欺負軍人？"],["楊委員瓊瓔：我們是民主法治國家，請依法行政。"],["卓院長榮泰：所以我們要依照憲法辦事。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你冷靜思考，立法院三讀通過，行政院沒有覆議，總統公布了，你卻不編預算，是誰告訴你不要編？"],["卓院長榮泰：憲法告訴我。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你為什麼要違法？"],["卓院長榮泰：憲法告訴我必須等待憲法的釋憲。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你為什麼要欺負我們的軍人？"],["卓院長榮泰：我沒有欺負，今年已經編了171億了。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你冷靜去思考……"],["卓院長榮泰：我非常地理性。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你們有沒有討論要編回來？我們已經給你機會。"],["卓院長榮泰：如果憲法……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你有沒有討論要編回來？有沒有討論？"],["卓院長榮泰：如果大法官解釋這個是合憲的，我們就編回來，還可以追溯到今年元月。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：到目前為止，你們有沒有討論？我們也給了你們空間，你們會不會編回來？"],["卓院長榮泰：有啊！我們討論……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你們會不會編回來？"],["卓院長榮泰：大法官解釋如果合憲，我們就編，而且追加的編，追溯到今年的1月，如果大法官解釋違憲，我就不能成為一個違憲的院長。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：院長，你不能成為違憲的院長，但是你不能成為一個違法的院長。接下來本席要跟你討論……"],["卓院長榮泰：憲法的位階我必須尊重。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：接下來本席要跟你討論新臺幣的改版，有預估要做嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：央行有提出，因為基於安全……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：要花多少錢？央行提出啦！它在財政委員會報告了。"],["卓院長榮泰：日前也有委員詢問過這個問題，說有500億，可是央行說500億是包括銅幣、錢幣，錢幣如果不需要的話，會節省掉四百多億，應該好像只有40億，應該是40億左右，那一張可以用三張來算。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：因為現階……"],["楊總裁金龍：我跟委員報告……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：稍等，我要告訴院長，因為現階段人民通膨問題，我們的社福預算都非常的緊縮，地方建設行政院也說沒錢，很緊縮，在這個階段你們說一年要50億到100億，然後從117年開始，這是央行給我們的數字，要開始來改版。"],["楊總裁金龍：是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：改版，你們告訴我說是因為偽幣，那現在的偽幣很多嗎？"],["楊總裁金龍：沒有。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：沒有？"],["楊總裁金龍：我們是說現在已經有24年了，24年跟其他的國家來比較，我們非常的慢了、慢了，非常慢了，而且……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：非常的慢了、非常的慢了，院長……"],["楊總裁金龍：我們的改版，24年裡面只有增加1.5塊錢成本。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：現在的成本一張是3.5。"],["楊總裁金龍：是嘛！"],["楊委員瓊瓔：院長，他告訴你只有增加1.5，換句話說，一張要5塊錢。"],["楊總裁金龍：是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：院長，你冷靜再去思考，此時此刻通膨、年輕人買不起房子、社福預算不夠，你在現階段可以用的錢……你在這個階段要去改版……"],["楊總裁金龍：如果……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：改版不是只有改那一張版，而且未來所有的ATM，所有相關的通通都要更改。"],["楊總裁金龍：相較之下那個金額不高。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：金額不高就是隱性的成本，軟體都要改，所以院長慎思啊！聽聽民意，就如院長所說的世上苦人多，好好的運用我們的預算，好不好？"],["卓院長榮泰：好，謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝楊瓊瓔委員的質詢，謝謝卓院長、相關部會首長備詢。卓院長，請喝一口茶。","接下來我們請沈發惠委員質詢，許宇甄委員請準備。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":134,"meet_id":"院會-11-4-7","speakers":["韓國瑜","許智傑","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","李昆澤","王正旭","張嘉郡","楊瓊瓔","沈發惠","許宇甄","王世堅","葉元之","陳玉珍"],"page_start":59,"meetingDate":["2025-10-31"],"gazette_id":"1148701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148701_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期第7次會議紀錄","content":"施政質詢\n對行政院院長施政報告繼續質詢─繼續質詢─","agenda_id":"1148701_00008"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}