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院長我們請"},{"start":27.819,"end":54.845,"text":"請院長再請卓院長備選省委好卓院長好這個我想這兩個禮拜前一條社會新聞在這裡這個讓我們大家都非常的悶痛"},{"start":57.294,"end":80.521,"text":"這個一個親韓生他因為沒有辦法繳出一萬八千塊的這個學費那變成他壓垮他的最後一根稻草那這個最後他選擇選擇輕生了那這因為這一則新聞讓我就今天改變我原本今天想要質詢的題目我想說"},{"start":82.247,"end":107.5,"text":"這個應該要回頭來檢視我們目前我們國家來做跟這個兒童跟少年的這個未來的這個發展商戶這樣子的做法我們來進行一個審視因為當一個國家說我們要為孩子鋪路的時候那句話就不是只是停留在口號應該要把這個希望落實在看得見的制度上面"},{"start":108.53,"end":134.726,"text":"我們要讓每一個孩子可以站起來向前走我們就應該要把路鋪得更平鋪得更寬讓他更有力量尤其現在教育跟生活的成本持續上升社會競爭的加劇的情況之下家庭背景對孩子未來的影響"},{"start":136.914,"end":164.085,"text":"再放大所以我們希望能夠清楚的給下一代一個起步的機會給他起步的一個支持所以我現在回頭來檢視我們現在兒少的未來教育跟發展帳戶這個制度這個制度可能是衛福部這邊主管"},{"start":167.435,"end":182.193,"text":"我們從106年開始實施這個制度107年立法到現在也9年的時間了106年到現在實施9年我想9年我們來回頭來檢視這個制度到底"},{"start":183.476,"end":204.17,"text":"到底在實施上面 實施了九年我們回頭來檢視看看有沒有什麼值得我們讓它更優化的空間能夠提供真正的提供兒童跟少年在未來起步的時候的一個支持所以這個制度其實九年來照理講也應該是累積了很多的經驗跟資料"},{"start":206.587,"end":230.115,"text":"那所以我要從他的開戶率從縣市的差異從家庭的負擔從這個金融教育的配套等等這些方面我們來一起看我們其實從這些方面我們都看到還有優化的空間其實都還有優化的空間那所以接下來我想就這個制度怎麼樣來讓這個制度更普及更穩定能夠這個更具成長性能夠照顧更多的兒童跟少年這樣的角度來談這個問題那這個"},{"start":235.235,"end":254.943,"text":"我剛講過這個制度我們從106年6月1號開辦到現在19年開辦的時候我們溯及到105年1月1號出生的孩子都可以辦理這樣的帳戶這個帳戶基本上就是一個為我們我國這個帳戶基本上就是一個為低收入戶中低收入戶"},{"start":255.823,"end":268.917,"text":"低收入戶、中低收入戶還有長期安置的11的少年兒童大概就是這些孩子有資格能夠辦理政府會先存進一筆錢先存一萬塊接下來"},{"start":273.081,"end":295.747,"text":"家裡存多少我們政府就補多少用這樣的制度來給這個孩子未來的支持那我看了你們的這個網站我上去看我們這個網站事實上是做得蠻清楚的幾乎把所有的條件他的歷史嚴格以及他這個丈夫未來他的一些相關的資格以及他的這個"},{"start":298.047,"end":316.006,"text":"辦理這個帳戶的好處等等這些推廣大概在網站上面是寫的蠻清楚但是我關心的就是說我們實施9年我們現在到底成效怎麼樣我們先從覆蓋率院長我想我們從覆蓋率來看就是到底有多少"},{"start":316.994,"end":343.531,"text":"多少人辦了這個帳戶 多少人到目前因為現在才開辦9年 還有到18歲才可以領所以現在是都還沒有開始領現在都是已經開始在存所以這9年裡面我們看看他的覆蓋率這部分這個院長不曉得清不清楚謝謝委員 我們剛好前兩三天吧我們正在討論到這個事情原意是說想讓年輕人出社會的時候有一桶金政府也出一部分"},{"start":344.051,"end":361.645,"text":"那家庭出一部分但他的家庭的部分來自於低收中低收入本來就是經濟上比較弱勢的那原來這種構想是這個樣子所以我們在認為說未來是不是要朝向一個更廣泛的全面性的家庭支持跟政府來做合作所以我們有在檢討這個現在的制度那事實請部長來說明一下這個部長齁我這邊我幫你統計啦齁時間的關係我就"},{"start":370.755,"end":397.167,"text":"我看我這個也都是我資料全部都是從衛福部的資料來的這個我以這個我們2025年9月我們的衛福部的統計這個低收入戶跟這個收入這個低收入戶加中低收入戶加上這些失憶兒少這樣子加起來總共這個有人數總共是三萬是三萬"},{"start":399.215,"end":404.016,"text":"總數是95692人辦理帳戶的有多少目前累積辦理帳戶總開戶數我幫你算我以2023年算我這邊的資料是2023年的總開戶數才31606人"},{"start":429.85,"end":437.335,"text":"就是說你的覆蓋率差不多33%而已就是差不多只有33%的有資格的人來開戶而已這個覆蓋率辦了9年院長"},{"start":441.358,"end":456.605,"text":"這樣子是不是這個覆蓋率有值得檢討的地方所以我們那天就在檢討希望有一個更大宏觀的方向來對年輕人做更多的照顧從這個制度來檢討未來怎麼改變先不談就從這個檢討開始過去9年我們先檢討嘛過去9年為什麼他的覆蓋率開戶數會這麼低呢"},{"start":465.205,"end":481.947,"text":"跟委員報告當然他一開始我們先跟委員報告一個背景之下就是目前開戶數大概是這樣沒有錯但是有開戶之後能夠持續繳的那個是我下一個問題持續率是下一個問題我現在只光講開戶數就太低了吧"},{"start":483.327,"end":508.637,"text":"對 這就是我們接下來要去檢討他的開戶數確實有一些問題弱勢家庭他本身的現金流他的負擔這是一個問題我本來就以中立收入戶你看我每個月存款這是一個問題第二個就是你的申請後續這些資料其實整個辦理手續對這些弱勢家庭而言他本身的行政負擔"},{"start":509.577,"end":536.226,"text":"也是很大就是說他個人除非社工的輔導否則他個人是要辦理這個是很困難那另外這個社工的能量當然也是個問題各縣市政府社工的能量跟他的這個推動的這個力道都有差我來看各縣市的差距我們剛剛講整體來講是33%但是你看到嘉義市他的開戶率達到八成"},{"start":538.922,"end":562.631,"text":"但是很多縣市根本就連五成都不到那就各縣市都有這些差距為什麼各縣市有這樣的差距這個請部長是不是你了不了解這個我們可能要詳細的再去了解各縣市的差異不過這個積極度當然也是你們要去掌握啦要掌握這個各縣市為什麼有這些差距它是這個其實齁"},{"start":564.045,"end":589.779,"text":"每一個地方在推動的力道都不一樣有的他加了很多獎勵加一線為什麼能夠到八成因為他本身就加了很多福利點數在你開戶的同時他又給你加福利點數等等提供其他的獎勵跟誘因所以他的開戶率比較高所以剛剛講說這是開戶率的問題接著剛剛部長就提到了你的持續儲蓄率到底多高"},{"start":591.771,"end":603.721,"text":"我看到你們的資料我看到的資料啦你們這是這個113年因為你們好像四年檢討一次嘛所以我現在看到的你們的書面資料是113年113年你們說堅持繼續存款的總共有3763人這個數字在那時候對吧"},{"start":613.904,"end":630.726,"text":"我們的數字是持續的可以到8乘5的維持率8乘5就是說開戶的這個股票有持續持續的有到8成那這個我看到的這個因為你們那時候是搭配獎勵"},{"start":632.208,"end":654.293,"text":"因為這個這個我們這個這個兒少這個教育發展帳戶條例裡面授權授權讓我們這個你們授權制定了一個叫做獎勵開戶人的存款辦法所以你們有除了這個這個一開始政府幫你存以外你們如果符合這個持續三年不間斷的話你們另外有獎勵金另外有獎勵金那這樣子的制度這個這個"},{"start":657.793,"end":663.559,"text":"我們在這個獎勵金之下其實我們的持續率也才如果按照部長講才到八成而已"},{"start":664.332,"end":688.548,"text":"才到八成我個人認為說這個這個對於這個家庭儲蓄能力比較弱的現行的這個開戶金跟三年的獎勵金他的誘因我個人認為還是有限的應該是不是能夠研議這些相關的這些公益是不是能夠引進民間的力量做公益的配對或者是這個我們這個還有一個很重要的就是對金融觀念金融教育"},{"start":689.485,"end":717.919,"text":"的問題我們剛剛在講這個開戶率的部分其實它也牽涉其實這個我們目前教育部好像沒有在這個我們的教育部學校沒有在我們這個推廣的這個一個環節裡面這我認為這些兒童跟少年他接觸最多的就是學校如何跟教育部來合作請教育部在過程裡面在推廣的過程裡面從學校來做我覺得這也是很重要"},{"start":719.226,"end":725.986,"text":"那這個這個牽涉到發布會的資源整合我是我我我"},{"start":727.628,"end":753.529,"text":"最後剛剛這個院長有提到說我們有開會也在討論是不是能夠把這個目前限於低收入戶、中低收入戶跟這些失業而燒的部分能夠擴大能夠擴大讓這個資格能夠做更寬廣的照顧面那我們來接近我們就看這個現在美國最大家最清楚的那個跟我們這個非常類似"},{"start":753.969,"end":778.845,"text":"叫做川普帳戶這個我們部長應該知道了他們就是你一個一個從這個2025年出生的嬰兒一出生聯邦政府就提供一千美元來幫你買啟動你的資金政府就每一個新生兒就一千美元"},{"start":780.109,"end":808.954,"text":"1000美元大概差不多3.2萬按照現在的匯率那這樣子之後他也是到18年之後18歲之後可以開始啟動但在他的過程裡面我們的是儲蓄他們的是直接就是基金的操作就是讓你這個用低成本的這些共同基金還有這個追蹤指數的ETF他們就是限定這些項目就開始進行投資"},{"start":811.048,"end":837.876,"text":"這樣子但是更重要的一個就是說美國他是川普這樣跟我們最大的區別就是他是普惠性的他沒有限於收入狀況怎麼樣清寒中低收入低收入他沒有他全面性的做普惠性的這樣子的帳戶的設置那其實韓國跟新加坡也有類似的制度韓國跟新加坡他也是類似他也是這種普惠性的制度"},{"start":838.956,"end":858.914,"text":"那我就是在最後這一點時間我希望院長我們是不是能夠把目前我們這樣子的這個兒童少年的這些這樣子的帳戶的做法是不是能夠跳脫出我們現在我們這樣這種做法是救濟性質的而不是普惠性質的是不是能夠把這種救濟性質的帳戶我們"},{"start":862.095,"end":877.769,"text":"這個牽涉到很多單位包括主計包括我們的這些我們未來的這些財務規劃經濟部金管會財政部衛福部這些單位應該由院長來整合我們來研究看看是不是能夠朝普惠的方向來走"},{"start":880.372,"end":898.308,"text":"謝謝委員如果基於整個經濟情勢的改變 變化還有國家財政能力的逐漸的往上提升再加上我們很多的金融商品逐漸的有創新那我們現在在比較處於退休那一波已經有所謂的TISA 台灣版的TISA"},{"start":899.369,"end":917.387,"text":"再來就是我們對年輕人兒少政府權力支柱的這個方向也不會變在幾個原則底下就是我們之前在討論的跟宏觀的來考慮到說對出生到他年輕成長出社會的這段時間如果給他一個可以有金融"},{"start":918.268,"end":943.237,"text":"教育知識這個不只是對年輕人的支持其實這樣子的做法像美國他川普政府他其實也是針對少子化的問題在做一個解決出發點也是在這裡鼓勵大家能夠多生小孩政府用家庭支持用政府支持來協助每個小孩的快樂成長所以希望院長能夠朝這個普惠性的方向我們來研議召集這些單位來做 好不好好的 謝謝謝謝沈發慧委員的質詢"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":643,"blocks":[["沈委員發惠：（17時3分）院長，我們請卓院長。"],["主席：麻煩再請卓院長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：沈委員好。"],["沈委員發惠：卓院長好。我想兩個禮拜前有一條社會新聞，讓我們大家都非常的悲痛，一個清寒生因為沒有辦法繳出1萬8,000塊的學費，變成壓垮他的最後一根稻草，最後他選擇輕生。因為這則新聞，讓我改變了原本今天想要質詢的題目，我想應該回頭來檢視目前我們國家對於兒童跟少年未來發展的作法，我們來進行審視。因為當一個國家說要為孩子鋪路的時候，那句話就不是只是停留在口號，應該要把這個希望落實在看得見的制度上面，要讓每一個孩子可以站起來向前走，我們就應該要把路舖得更平、舖得更寬，讓他更有力量。尤其是現在教育跟生活的成本持續上升，在社會競爭加劇的情況之下，家庭背景對孩子未來的影響也在放大，所以我們希望能夠清楚地給下一代一個起步的機會，給予起步的支持。","我現在回頭檢視我國現在兒少未來教育跟發展帳戶的制度，這個制度可能是由衛福部這邊主管的。我們從106年開始實施這個制度，107年立法，到現在也有9年的時間了，106年到現在實施9年了，我們就回頭來檢視這個制度到底有沒有什麼值得我們讓它更優化的空間，以真正地提供兒童跟少年在未來起步時的一個支持。","這個制度9年來照理講也應該累積了很多的經驗跟資料，所以我要從它的開戶率、從縣市的差異、從家庭的負擔、從金融教育的配套等等方面一起看。其實從這些方面我們都可以看到還有優化的空間，所以接下來我想從怎麼讓這個制度更普及、更穩定，能夠更具成長性，以照顧更多的兒童跟少年，用這樣的角度來談這個問題。","我剛剛講過，這個制度從106年6月1日開辦到現在已實施9年，開辦的時候有溯及到105年1月1日出生的孩子都可以辦理這樣的帳戶。我國這個帳戶基本上就是一個為低收入戶、中低收入戶，還有長期安置的這些失依少年、兒童而設的。大概就是這些孩子有資格能夠辦理，政府會先存進一筆錢，先存1萬塊，接下來家裡存多少，我們政府就補多少，用這樣的制度來支持孩子的未來。","我上去看了你們的這個網站，這個網站事實上是做得滿清楚的，幾乎把所有的條件、它的歷史沿革，以及這個帳戶未來一些相關資格、辦理這個帳戶的好處等等這些推廣，大概在網站上面都寫得滿清楚的。但是我關心的第一個就是，我們實施9年來到底成效怎麼樣？院長，我們就先從覆蓋率來看，就是到底有多少人辦了這個帳戶？因為到現在才開辦9年，還要到18歲才可以領，所以現在是都還沒有開始領，現在是已經開始在存，所以在這9年裡面，我們來看看它的覆蓋率，這部分院長不曉得清楚不清楚？"],["卓院長榮泰：很謝謝委員，我們剛好前兩、三天才正討論到這個事情。"],["沈委員發惠：太好了。"],["卓院長榮泰：原意是想讓年輕人出社會的時候有一桶金，政府出一部分，家庭也出一部分，但是他的家庭是來自於低收入、中低收入，本來就是經濟上比較弱勢的。"],["沈委員發惠：對。"],["卓院長榮泰：原來的構想是這個樣子，所以我們認為未來是不是要朝向一個更廣泛的、更全面性的家庭支持跟政府這邊來合作？"],["沈委員發惠：沒錯，這個是……"],["卓院長榮泰：所以我們是有在檢討現在這個制度。"],["沈委員發惠：太好了！"],["卓院長榮泰：我是不是請部長來說明一下？"],["沈委員發惠：部長，這邊我幫你統計了，因為時間的關係，我就……我的這些資料全部都是從你們衛福部的資料來的，我就以2025年9月衛福部的統計來看，低收入戶加中低收入戶，加上這些失依兒少，加起來的人數總共是9萬5,692人，對不對？"],["石部長崇良：對。"],["沈委員發惠：那辦理帳戶的有多少呢？目前累積辦理帳戶的有多少呢？"],["石部長崇良：跟委員報告，我們現在……"],["沈委員發惠：總開戶數我幫你算了，我這邊的資料是2023年的，2023年的總開戶數才3萬1,606人，也就是說你的覆蓋率差不多33%而已，就是差不多只有33%有資格的人來開戶而已。辦了9年，院長，這個覆蓋率是不是有值得檢討的地方？"],["卓院長榮泰：是，所以我們那天就在檢討，希望有一個更大、宏觀的方向，來對年輕人做更多的照顧，從這個制度檢討開始。"],["沈委員發惠：先不談未來怎麼改變，我們先回顧過去9年，我們先檢討過去9年為什麼這個開戶數的覆蓋率會這麼低呢？"],["石部長崇良：我們先跟委員報告一個背景資料，目前開戶數大概是這樣沒有錯，但是開戶之後能夠持續繳的大概在八成……"],["沈委員發惠：對，那個是我下一個問題，持續率是下一個問題，我現在只光講開戶數就太低了吧！才三成不到四成。"],["石部長崇良：對，這個就是我們接下來要去檢討，它的開戶數確實……"],["沈委員發惠：這個有一些問題，弱勢家庭本身的現金流、他的負擔，這是一個問題，他本來就已經中低收入戶，他每個月存……"],["卓院長榮泰：有一點難度在這裡。"],["沈委員發惠：對，這是一個問題。第二個，你的申請以及後續這些資料，其實辦理整個手續對多數家庭而言，這個行政負擔也很大，除非有社工輔導，否則他個人要辦理這個是很困難的。另外，社工的能量當然也是個問題，各縣市政府社工的能量跟推動的力道都有差啦！我們來看各縣市的差距，我們剛剛講整體的覆蓋率是33%，但是你看，嘉義市的開戶率達到八成，但是很多縣市根本連五成都不到，為什麼各縣市有這樣的差距，這個部長是否了解？"],["石部長崇良：這個我們可能要詳細的再去了解各縣市的差異，不過積極度當然……"],["沈委員發惠：你們要去掌握啦！要掌握各縣市為什麼有這些差距，其實每一個地方在推動的力道都不一樣，有的縣市加了很多獎勵，嘉義市為什麼能夠到八成？因為他本身加了很多福利點數，在你的開戶同時，他又給你加福利點數等等，提供其他的獎勵跟誘因，所以他的開戶率也比較高。剛剛講的是開戶率的問題，接下來，剛剛部長也提到了，持續儲蓄率到底有多高？"],["石部長崇良：有到八成五。"],["沈委員發惠：我看到的資料是113年的，因為你們好像是4年檢討一次，所以現在看到你們的書面資料是113年的，你們說在那時候堅持繼續存款的總共有3,763人，這個數字對嗎？"],["石部長崇良：我們的數字是持續的可以到八成五的維持率。"],["沈委員發惠：八成五？"],["石部長崇良：對。"],["沈委員發惠：就是說開戶的這個戶頭裡有持續儲蓄的有到八成？"],["石部長崇良：對。"],["沈委員發惠：你們那時候是搭配獎勵，因為兒少未來教育與發展帳戶條例裡面授權你們制定獎勵開戶人的存款辦法，所以除了一開始政府幫你存以外，如果符合持續三年不間斷的話，你們另外有獎勵金。在這個獎勵金的制度之下，如果按照部長講的，我們的持續率也才到八成而已，對於儲蓄能力比較弱的家庭，現行的開戶金跟三年的獎勵金的誘因，我個人認為還是有限啦！是不是能夠研議引進民間的力量做公益的配對？","還有一個很重要的是金融觀念、金融教育的問題，我們剛剛在講開戶率的部分，其實目前教育部、學校好像沒有在整個推廣的環節裡面，我認為這些兒童跟少年接觸最多的就是學校，如何跟教育部合作，請教育部在推廣的過程裡面從學校來做，我覺得這也是很重要啦！","這個牽涉到跨部會的資源整合，剛剛院長提到有開會討論是不是能夠把目前限於低收入戶、中低收入戶跟失依兒少的部分能夠擴大，放寬資格讓整個照顧面更寬廣。其實我們可以借鏡，我們就來看現在美國大家最清楚的，這個跟我們的非常類似，叫做川普帳戶（Trump Accounts），部長應該知道，就是在2025年出生的嬰兒，在他出生以後聯邦政府就提供1,000美元來存入他的帳戶，每一個新生兒都有1,000美元，1,000美元按照現在的匯率算起來大概是3.2萬臺幣，他到18歲之後可以開始啟動。在這個過程裡面，像我們的方式是儲蓄，而他們直接就是基金的操作，就是這些低成本的共同基金還有追蹤指數的ETF，他們是限定這些項目開始進行投資。更重要的一點就是美國這種川普帳戶跟我們有一個最大的區別，就是它是普惠性的，並沒有看收入狀況是怎麼樣，沒有限於清寒、中低收入、低收入，它是全面性、普惠性的設置這樣子的帳戶。其實韓國跟新加坡也有類似的制度，韓國跟新加坡也是有這種普惠性的制度。","最後還有一點時間，院長，我們是不是能夠跳脫出來？目前我們對兒童及少年帳戶的這種作法是救濟性質而不是普惠性質，是不是可以針對這種救濟性質的帳戶進行研議？這關係到我們未來的財務規劃，牽涉到很多單位，包括主計總處、經濟部、金管會、財政部、衛福部等單位，所以應該由院長整合，我們來研究看看是不是能夠朝普惠的方向來走。"],["卓院長榮泰：是，謝謝委員，基於整個經濟情勢的變化，還有國家財政能力逐漸往上提升，再加上我們很多金融商品也有逐漸創新，像我們比較屬於退休的部分現在已經有所謂的TISA，也就是臺灣版的TISA。再來就是我們政府全力資助年輕人、兒少的這個方向也不會變，在幾個原則底下，就是我們之前在討論的，要更宏觀的來考慮從出生、成長然後出社會的這段時間，如何讓他可以有金融教育知識……"],["沈委員發惠：這個不只是對年輕人的支持，其實像這樣子的作法，美國川普帳戶也是針對少子化的問題在提出一個解決方法。"],["卓院長榮泰：沒有錯，出發點也是在這裡，就是鼓勵大家多生小孩，用家庭支持、用政府支持來協助每個小孩快樂的成長。"],["沈委員發惠：對，所以我希望院長能夠朝這個普惠性的方向來研議，召集這些單位來做，好不好？"],["卓院長榮泰：好的，謝謝委員。"],["主席：好，謝謝沈發惠委員的質詢，謝謝卓院長及相關部會首長備詢。","我們接下來請許宇甄委員質詢，王世堅委員請準備。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":134,"meet_id":"院會-11-4-7","speakers":["韓國瑜","許智傑","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","李昆澤","王正旭","張嘉郡","楊瓊瓔","沈發惠","許宇甄","王世堅","葉元之","陳玉珍"],"page_start":59,"meetingDate":["2025-10-31"],"gazette_id":"1148701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148701_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期第7次會議紀錄","content":"施政質詢\n對行政院院長施政報告繼續質詢─繼續質詢─","agenda_id":"1148701_00008"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}