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署長你懂我的意思嗎會做的我們就做 不夠錢我們就要說明不要每天去做一定的流標然後呢 給人家一直累積那個次數十二次 我先說這個我很怕接下來會有十三 然後不久就十四好不好 這個一定要看跟部裡面跟院裡面好好的來討論重要的事情你一定要做的"},{"start":143.399,"end":159.358,"text":"那你就讓他做到他可以標出去嘛好不好那那個另外啊像你先上一段時間譬如說剛剛有人有委員有去問到那個假帳號的事啊其實脆不是最嚴重的你們的IG啊那個2021年"},{"start":162.42,"end":189.91,"text":"這個帳號就開了用氣象 氣象署相關的名稱啊 Logo啊這個已經2021年的7月這個帳號就成立 就成立了所以呢 到今天為止這個我看這個還有2530位粉絲在上面那這個到底為什麼不處理啦就是到底是你們的問題還是給速發部速發部對IG一點辦法都沒有"},{"start":191.58,"end":195.982,"text":"蘇長你知道嗎 官委員報告我們氣象署有IG自己的帳號對 這個是你們的嗎TRAP是IG是嗎IG"},{"start":206.528,"end":230.674,"text":"氣象署在IG有賬號你把所有的假帳號都清一遍好不好不管它在哪一個平台啦好 那回到這個修法的重點我想因為11月大概院版才會可能送到立法院來審查那我對氣象局 深隔氣象署我是期待滿深的"},{"start":231.451,"end":242.129,"text":"因為這個氣象我們的準確度應該相對比起10年前20年前應該準確度高很多以我個人的經驗因為我們"},{"start":245.14,"end":270.416,"text":"只幫要打球所以我們對於氣象報告的需求其實很大我們對於你的準確度更重要所以我們的聯盟的同仁跟我們署裡面都有密切的聯繫包括我們這一次台灣大賽的延賽也是依照氣象資料抓出在桃園某一天不會下雨"},{"start":271.838,"end":297.967,"text":"所以我們就一次的一次性的沒有每天延賽一次性的把它移到那一天好那這個所以你看對影響是一個職業運動的比賽但它影響著可能數萬個球迷他到底要不要前往或者他的關賽的這個體驗會不會受到影響所以它影響很大"},{"start":299.164,"end":318.679,"text":"署長 我們現在的氣象資料我們的預測譬如說對雨量的預測準確度你覺得可以預測多少個時間譬如說12小時24小時內預測是你覺得準確度是很高很高的"},{"start":319.761,"end":348.452,"text":"如果說以定量來看的話氣象署現在所預報出去的定量預報大概是未來48小時之內都會準確準確就不敢說百分之百啦大概多少99沒有 沒有那麼高百分之70的準確度應該有所謂的下雨跟定量的部分48小時大概70那如果24小時呢24小時會更高對 大概多少75到80左右那多少那12個小時呢"},{"start":349.484,"end":356.694,"text":"12個小時的準確度如果說12小時來看的話準確度一定會更高可能到七八十 八十應該有"},{"start":358.072,"end":381.736,"text":"那未來一個小時未來一個小時的準確度如果說從外延的角度來看的話準確度大概也可以到達如果會不會下雨這樣子會不會下雨準確度可能可以到達八九十有但是那個量就不見得我知道我知道雨量要下多少不見得但是如果說用外延的話準確度的確是很高好 署長"},{"start":384.328,"end":409.687,"text":"這個氣象的資料我們判斷裡面氣象署的所有的設備就我們判斷從48小時24小時12小時我們對於雨量的判斷是不是這些儀器我們氣象署本身就可以具備還是我們還需要去譬如說什麼太空中心啊國外的需要買這些相關的訊息嗎"},{"start":410.82,"end":434.914,"text":"光雨量部分的話一定是在氣象署裡面有兩個系統可以觀測一個是地面的觀測地面觀測是天上下下來的雨那地面觀測站現在全台灣的雨量站大概1300多個雨量站所以是相當的密的但是每一個雨量站跟每一個雨量站的距離可能還有5公里不等的這個距離這些距離的地方沒辦法偵測到我們可以用氣象的雷達"},{"start":435.874,"end":458.185,"text":"來去做這些偵測那目前氣象署呢有四顆長程雷達有三顆降雨雷達目前這些都會是同步的在運作所以在判斷會不會下雨的情境來看的話要結合地面的雨漿站跟我們的雷達來對那這個基本上我們現在預報就是靠地面的氣象站跟雷達對不對現在目前是的那"},{"start":459.225,"end":469.22,"text":"如果要讓他更準確全世界的這個氣象的這些觀測的器材或者方法裡面氣象署有沒有更精進的作為"},{"start":470.239,"end":498.07,"text":"我們現在剛剛在講的這些雷達基本上都是在都會區的雷達那個觀測的距離是比較短的可用的資料可能是150公里以內可是我們對於山區的降雨是相當的沒有太多的技術在裡面第一個 山上的雨量占就比較少像這一次在馬太安溪的上游根本就沒有雨量在那裡所以這一部分在高山這些地形比較特殊的地方的降雨我們將來是必須要去克服的"},{"start":498.61,"end":513.665,"text":"那這些克服有不同的情境的克服我們現在的想法就是有一些移動性的雷達在比較高脆弱區比較高需要這些氣象資料的時候我們可以透過這些移動式的雷達去克服我們目前的雷達所觀測不足的這些死角"},{"start":514.366,"end":538.186,"text":"署長這些就是說整個科技進步它氣象預報的準確度其實都跟在給這個政府或者企業做決策的時候你越準它的決策就效率就會越高包括民眾最在乎的包括颱風架等等那這些都是變成現在都是各縣市首長在"},{"start":539.867,"end":564.818,"text":"很重要他要再決策到底要怎麼來做很重要的依據所以這方面的精進我想如果署裡面還有機會應該可以再來精進那最後一個小問題就是說我們目前跟氣象我看一下我們跟了氣象相關的公司來合作應該大概十幾二十家有那這些要不要收費目前我們的創新試用方案裡面是沒有但是要回饋"},{"start":566.338,"end":594.321,"text":"他回饋你什麼他用了我們的資料第一個我們資料不見得那麼準確他用了這些資料的時候有誤差存在在裡面這誤差有沒有一些校正的機會他必須回饋給我們好第二個他用這些資料的一些使用度的情況譬如說他背後有客戶嘛對他跟客戶的使用度的一些意見要調查回來讓我們改善我們氣象署提供的服務的這一些長遠來看署長長遠來看你規劃未來跟民間的氣象公司合作你覺得要不要收費"},{"start":595.923,"end":618.368,"text":"政府本身的基本的投資這一部分是政府的投資因為牽扯到很多房災很多這些都是基本的投資至於說資料提供給氣象業者再去營利的這一部分有關必要的這一些公本的費用還是必須要由對方本席建議還是應該要好好的研議是…你看你們氣象局要投資設備人力又不足"},{"start":619.602,"end":642.231,"text":"那所以呢你要想辦法因為氣象開始變成產業了他已經不再是早期我們氣象局的概念裡面那基礎資料民眾大家共享然後這是政府提供應該要的可是進階的數據甚至氣象公司運用在可能很多的決策上面他需要去做這些很精密數據的參考那"},{"start":644.793,"end":664.709,"text":"氣象署如果能多一些營收想辦法有一個機制怎麼去法制化怎麼有一個機制我覺得對你們的量能包括研究量能包括人員不足的問題其實都可以在裡面找到一些答案這樣好不好因為時間的關係好謝謝委員謝謝好謝謝蔡提昌委員發言"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":208,"blocks":[["蔡委員其昌：（9時55分）謝謝主席。請次長跟署長。"],["主席：請次長跟署長。"],["林次長國顯：委員早。"],["蔡委員其昌：次長早。次長，關於氣象法，行政院的版本現在進度到哪裡？"],["林次長國顯：報告委員，目前氣象署還在研議，因為上次報到部裡有一些修正意見，我們想要再……"],["蔡委員其昌：所以還沒到院？"],["林次長國顯：還沒有。"],["蔡委員其昌：好，有沒有抓一個預期的時間？"],["林次長國顯：預計在11月能夠預告，預計預告兩個月，蒐集意見以後修正再報部。"],["蔡委員其昌：謝謝次長。我想速度啦。因為氣象局升格氣象署，其實相關的業務範圍、到底未來氣象署該怎麼去做事，跟氣象法的修正會有很大的關聯。署長上任多久了？"],["呂署長國臣：1月到現在，大概是10個月左右。"],["蔡委員其昌：好。有一些問題，像剛剛魯明哲委員問到海纜的問題，已經流標太多次了，所以你上來之後，一定要積極解決，因為標不出去，硬在那裡湊次數，既無聊又讓人家看出這個政府不知道在幹嘛。已經流標12次，你們也知道原因，譬如物價上漲等等問題，曾經流標12次你們也修改了，結果修改完之後也沒有人來標，不應該再流標13次、14次，因為都是相同的問題，署長懂我的意思嗎？可以做的你們就做，不夠錢，你們就要說明，不要每天去做那些一定會流標的，然後讓人家一直累計次數，12次了，我先說我很怕接下來會有13次，然後不久就14次，好不好？這個一定要跟部裡、院裡好好地討論，這是重要的事情，你一定要做的，你就做到讓它可以標出去，好不好？"],["呂署長國臣：好。"],["蔡委員其昌：另外，你已經上任一段時間，譬如剛剛有委員問到假帳號的事，其實Threads不是最嚴重的，而是你們的IG。PPT上的這個帳號在2021年就開了，用中央氣象署相關的名稱、logo，在2021年7月就成立了，到今天為止還有2,530位粉絲，到底為什麼不處理？到底是你們的問題，還是數發部？數發部對IG一點辦法都沒有嗎？署長知道嗎？"],["呂署長國臣：跟委員報告，氣象署有自己的IG帳號。"],["蔡委員其昌：對，那這個帳號是你們的嗎？"],["呂署長國臣：Threads不是。"],["蔡委員其昌：IG是嗎？"],["呂署長國臣：IG……氣象署在IG有帳號。"],["蔡委員其昌：好，沒關係，你把所有的假帳號都清一遍，好不好？不管它在哪一個平臺。"],["呂署長國臣：是。"],["蔡委員其昌：回到修法的重點，我想院版大概11月才會送到立法院來審查，我對氣象局升格氣象署是期待蠻深的，因為氣象的準確度相對比起10年前、20年前，應該高很多，這是以我個人的經驗。因為職棒打球，對於氣象報告的需求其實很大，你們的準確度更重要，所以我們聯盟的同仁和署裡面都有密切聯繫，包括這次臺灣大賽的延賽，也是依照氣象資料，抓出桃園某一天不會下雨，所以我們沒有每天延賽，而是一次性地移到那一天。你看它影響的是一個職業運動的比賽，但它還影響著數萬名球迷決定自己到底要不要前往觀賽，或者是他的觀賽體驗會不會受到影響，所以它的影響真的很大。","署長，現在的氣象預測，譬如雨量預測的準確度，你覺得在多少時間，比方12小時、24小時內的預測準確度是很高、很高的？"],["呂署長國臣：如果以定量來看的話，氣象署現在的定量預報大概是未來48小時之內。"],["蔡委員其昌：都會準確？"],["呂署長國臣：不敢說百分之百啦！"],["蔡委員其昌：大概多少？99%？"],["呂署長國臣：沒有，沒有那麼高。70%的準確度應該有，我說的是雨量定量的部分。"],["蔡委員其昌：48小時大概是70%，如果24小時呢？"],["呂署長國臣：24小時會更高。"],["蔡委員其昌：大概多少？"],["呂署長國臣：75%到80%左右。"],["蔡委員其昌：12個小時呢？"],["呂署長國臣：如果以12個小時來看，準確度一定會更高，可能會到百分之七、八十，應該有80%。"],["蔡委員其昌：未來1個小時呢？100%嗎？"],["呂署長國臣：未來1個小時的準確度如果從外延的角度來看的話，準確度大概也到達……如果是會不會下雨這樣子的……"],["蔡委員其昌：對，會不會下雨？"],["呂署長國臣：會不會下雨的準確度可能可以到達百分之八、九十，但是那個量就不見得。"],["蔡委員其昌：我知道、我知道，雨量會下多少不見得。"],["呂署長國臣：對，如果用外延的話，準確度的確是會很高。"],["蔡委員其昌：好，署長，我們對雨量的判斷從48小時、24小時到12小時，所需要的儀器是不是氣象署本身都具備，或者是還需要向太空中心或國外購買相關的訊息？"],["呂署長國臣：光是雨量的部分，氣象署有兩個系統可以觀測，一個是地面的觀測，這是天上下下來的雨，地面觀測現在全臺灣有一千三百多個雨量站，所以是相當密的，但是每兩個雨量站之間可能還有5公里不等的距離，這些沒辦法偵測到的地方，我們可以用氣象雷達去偵測。目前氣象署有4顆長程雷達、3顆降雨雷達，都同步在運作，所以在判斷會不會下雨的情境來看，要結合地面的雨量站跟雷達來做；這是臺灣自己的。"],["蔡委員其昌：現在我們的預報就是靠地面的氣象站和雷達，對不對？"],["呂署長國臣：是的。"],["蔡委員其昌：如果要讓它更準確，全世界的氣象觀測器材或者方法裡面，氣象署有沒有更精進的作為？"],["呂署長國臣：剛剛講的這些雷達基本上都位於都會區，觀測的距離是比較短的，可用資料可能在150公里以內，可是我們對山區的降雨沒有太多技術在裡面，第一個，山上的雨量站比較少，像這次在馬太鞍溪上游根本就沒有雨量站，所以像高山等等地形比較特殊地區的降雨，我們將來是必須要去克服的。這些克服有不同情境，我們現在的想法是有一些移動式的雷達，在比較高脆弱區、比較高需要這些氣象資料的時候，可以透過這些移動式的雷達克服目前雷達觀測不足的死角。"],["蔡委員其昌：署長，整個科技進步，氣象預報的準確度其實都和政府或企業的決策有關，越準的話，決策的效率就會越高，包括民眾最在乎的颱風假等等。這些現在都是各縣市首長很重要的決策依據，所以這方面如果署裡面有機會，應該可以再來精進。","最後一個小問題是，目前和你們合作的氣象相關公司大概有十幾、二十家，這些要不要收費？"],["呂署長國臣：目前我們的創新試用方案沒有收費，但是要回饋，它用了……"],["蔡委員其昌：它回饋你什麼？"],["呂署長國臣：它用了我們的資料，第一個，我們的資料不見得那麼準確，它用了這些資料，裡面存在著誤差，對於這些誤差有沒有校正的機會，它必須回饋給我們。"],["蔡委員其昌：好。"],["呂署長國臣：第二個是這些資料使用度的情況，譬如它背後有客戶，這些客戶的使用度和意見要調查回來，讓我們改善氣象署提供的這些上游資料。"],["蔡委員其昌：長遠來看，氣象署未來規劃和民間氣象公司合作，你覺得要不要收費？"],["呂署長國臣：基本投資的部分是政府本身的投資，因為這牽涉到很多防災等等，這是基本的投資，至於資料提供給氣象業者去營利的部分，必要的工本費用還是必須由對方來提供，這樣會比較好。"],["蔡委員其昌：本席建議還是應該好好地研議。你看氣象署要投資設備，人力又不足，所以你要想辦法，因為氣象開始變成產業了！它已經不再是早期氣象局的概念了！基礎資料大家共享，由政府提供是應該的，可是進階的數據，甚至氣象公司運用在很多決策上面、可能需要參考很精密的數據，氣象署如果能多一些營收，想辦法建立一個法制化的機制，我覺得對你們的量能，包括研究量能和人員不足的問題，其實都可以在裡面找到一些答案。這樣好不好？因為時間的關係。"],["呂署長國臣：好，謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝蔡其昌委員發言完畢。","現在請林俊憲委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":460,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-23-5","speakers":["李昆澤","洪孟楷","林國成","魯明哲","蔡其昌","林俊憲","陳素月","許智傑","黃健豪","徐富癸","廖先翔","邱若華","游顥","葉元之","何欣純"],"page_start":421,"meetingDate":["2025-11-03"],"gazette_id":"1149201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1149201_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期交通委員會第5次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查委員蔡其昌等18人及委員李昆澤等20人分別擬具「氣象法部分條文修正草案」案【本日會議\n僅進行詢答】","agenda_id":"1149201_00005"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}