{"error":false,"id":["165012"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":165012,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165012","日期":"2025-11-05","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-4-19-9","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第4會期經濟委員會第9次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":4,"會次":9,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[19],"委員會代碼:str":["經濟委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第4會期經濟委員會第9次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2025-11-05T09:33:47+08:00","結束時間":"2025-11-05T09:44:32+08:00","影片長度":"00:10:45","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/0bb7d6ea348ff1d2dbb22848829163766e3cb72f09a57cc5e98bf0b6cf7b510450ab3bdf122418a85ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"邱議瑩","委員發言時間":"09:33:47 - 09:44:32","會議時間":"2025-11-05T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期經濟委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查： \n（一）本院委員楊瓊瓔等21人擬具「公司法第二百三十五條之一條文修正草案」案。\n（二）本院委員許宇甄等17人擬具「公司法第三百八十七條條文修正草案」案。\n（三）本院委員吳秉叡等21人擬具「公司法第二百二十二條條文修正草案」案。\n（四）本院委員鄭正鈐等16人擬具「公司法第一百六十條條文修正草案」案。\n（五）本院委員楊瓊瓔等17人擬具「公司法第三百八十七條條文修正草案」案。\n（六）本院委員謝衣鳯等16人擬具「公司法第三百八十七條條文修正草案」案。\n（七）本院委員黃建賓等17人擬具「公司法第二百三十五條之一條文修正草案」案。\n（八）本院委員林岱樺等16人擬具「公司法第三百八十七條條文修正草案」案。\n（九）本院委員張嘉郡等18人擬具「公司法第三百八十七條條文修正草案」案。\n（十）本院委員何欣純等16人擬具「公司法第三百八十七條條文修正草案」案。\n（十一）本院委員郭國文等16人擬具「公司法第一百六十五條條文修正草案」案。\n（十二）本院委員牛煦庭等17人擬具「公司法第三百八十七條之一及第四百四十九條條文修正草案」案。\n二、審查：\n（一）\t本院委員牛煦庭等16人擬具「商業登記法第九條之一及第三十七條條文修正草案」案。\n三、審查：\n（一）本院委員賴瑞隆等17人擬具「能源管理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（二）本院委員楊瓊瓔等21人擬具「能源管理法第七條條文修正草案」案。\n（三）本院委員蔡其昌等19人擬具「能源管理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（四）本院委員鍾佳濱等20人擬具「能源管理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（五）本院委員邱議瑩等17人擬具「能源管理法增訂第十九條之二及第二十七條之一條文草案」案。\n以上全案於11月5日(星期三)進行合併詢答，11月6日(星期四)處理。【11月5日及6日二天一次會】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5.785343750000001,"end":7.793468750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8.09721875,"end":9.177218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9.41346875,"end":9.531593750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15.94409375,"end":16.78784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16.73721875,"end":28.887218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":22.39034375,"end":22.457843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":22.81221875,"end":22.879718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":26.79471875,"end":27.21659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":28.95471875,"end":37.76346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":29.27534375,"end":29.34284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":38.016593750000006,"end":45.002843750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":45.23909375,"end":46.74096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":46.82534375,"end":47.14596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":47.36534375,"end":49.55909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":49.76159375,"end":59.92034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":59.26221875,"end":59.329718750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":60.64596875,"end":79.76534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":79.96784375,"end":93.18096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":93.99096875000001,"end":97.73721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":98.46284375,"end":99.37409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":99.74534375,"end":101.33159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":101.63534375,"end":106.66409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":107.22096875000001,"end":118.91534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":119.11784375,"end":123.87659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":124.65284375,"end":127.60596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":128.97284375,"end":149.81346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":149.93159375000002,"end":150.11721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":151.11284375,"end":155.39909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":155.48346875000001,"end":169.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":156.09096875,"end":157.49159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":157.50846875000002,"end":157.54221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":169.97909375,"end":172.76346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":173.37096875,"end":176.52659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":176.52659375000002,"end":179.81721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":178.24784375000002,"end":183.51284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":183.98534375,"end":186.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":186.17909375000002,"end":188.27159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":187.49534375000002,"end":189.50346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":189.43596875,"end":192.15284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":192.22034375,"end":195.81471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":196.52346875,"end":197.53596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":197.45159375,"end":198.29534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":198.02534375000002,"end":209.09534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":208.99409375000002,"end":209.44971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":209.11221875,"end":209.14596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":209.33159375000002,"end":210.42846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":210.44534375,"end":214.41096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":214.79909375000003,"end":215.67659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":215.96346875,"end":224.04659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":224.09721875000002,"end":224.58659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":224.28284375,"end":224.78909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":224.99159375000002,"end":225.56534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":226.34159375000002,"end":227.52284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":228.43409375000002,"end":229.22721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":229.54784375000003,"end":232.23096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":233.46284375000002,"end":234.93096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":235.26846875,"end":238.12034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":238.72784375,"end":240.26346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":240.58409375000002,"end":244.71846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":245.69721875000002,"end":248.24534375000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謝謝主席 我請一下部長我們再請龔部長"},{"start":16.147,"end":44.765,"text":"邱委員早部長好部長我想我們今天要審查這個公司法跟這個能源管理法是的那本席就能源管理法提出了一個修正的版本是增訂第19條之二是本席的內容是明訂任何人不得故意散播影響國家能源供應或能源基礎設施的不實謠言以及增訂第27條之一對於違反者若造成社會秩序危害或引發公眾恐慌"},{"start":45.365,"end":59.597,"text":"出於新台幣10萬以上60萬以下的罰款這個部長我想您大概也非常清楚這幾年其實台灣受到境外的這一些認知作戰的影響是非常的巨大包括"},{"start":60.7,"end":89.297,"text":"其实在今年的这个新达电厂的火灾之后呢就有媒体就写说不排除分区限电然后前一阵子大家一直在讲说这个乌山头水库的太阳能板是不是有毒是不是用清洁剂去洗太阳能板那甚至昨天前天在这个社群媒体的平台上面还有人说嘉义东石外海有这么多漂流的光电板"},{"start":89.697,"end":93.065,"text":"漂浮的光電板 民進黨是怎麼做事的"},{"start":94.803,"end":123.562,"text":"這個東石外海的這個不是光電板是磕碰但是類似這樣的一些假訊息一直不斷的來做干擾部長您到底怎麼看本席的這個提案你知不支持雖然你剛剛講說這個是不是要等你們所有的這個行政院版的版本出來那我覺得對於假訊息對於故意散播謠言這一件事情"},{"start":124.902,"end":149.57,"text":"還需要等嗎 還要再等你們的版本出來嗎報告委員 這方向上當然我們是樂觀審視支持但是現在因為相關有關於這個謠言主要還是已經有這個社會秩序維護法了那怎麼樣這邊跟社會秩序服務法看怎麼樣內容上有一些協調或者是執行上要怎麼去處理可能我們要再思考一下"},{"start":151.238,"end":172.201,"text":"所以你還是要等社會秩序維護法部長我請教一下你們有沒有去做過一些調查統計關於這種來自境外IP的組織操作的這些能源相關的議題有沒有去做過調查有沒有去做過統計然後這樣的攻擊的頻率跟次數"},{"start":173.442,"end":195.534,"text":"影響的程度你們有沒有去做過調查跟統計沒有詳細但是有感覺到是越來越你如果沒有做過統計當然你就會覺得我就等社委法我就等什麼法如果你有去做過統計的話你會知道越來越頻繁就感受得到這樣的這個境外的攻擊對台灣的整體能源政策來講其實是"},{"start":196.587,"end":221.439,"text":"非常嚴重的境外的攻擊不只是在政治面上面它在國家的很多的施政上面其實都會造成巨大的影響所以我想請您回去好好想一下如果說這一件事情你們認為這些境外的攻擊是嚴重的是不是能夠考慮把本席的這個提案納入在我們明天的這個審查討論裡頭這個是第一點第二點"},{"start":226.577,"end":247.346,"text":"關於這個境外中國電商落地納管部長我要請教一下你所謂的落地納管是什麼意思落地納什麼管那哪一個法來管理管理他的哪一些部分比如說現在我們知道這個淘寶"},{"start":249.755,"end":278.76,"text":"淘寶他其實我們都知道他是中資可是他在台灣的落地他在台灣的設立是用港資 淘寶公司台灣的分公司好 那港資的台灣分公司在台灣他具不具備有法人的身份歐洲 日本 韓國都早就已經要求跨境的電商要設立法人可是台灣沒有好 你要求他落地納管"},{"start":279.81,"end":306.909,"text":"要管理他什麼要用什麼法去管理他他要遵循你哪一個法如果說這樣的一個跨境電商你現在陸委會也講啊我們的中資管理辦法裡頭沒有開放電商啊可是大家都知道淘寶就是中資啊你可以告訴我你要怎麼管嗎報委員基本上我們現在的態度還是不會讓淘寶來台灣經營電商"},{"start":309.554,"end":338.14,"text":"那現在這個香港商你這不是很鄉愿嗎不要讓淘寶來台灣經營電商可是淘寶就在台灣啊沒有 他只能經營有一些船艙上的傳送而已這個是廣告小船的傳送網路上到處都有啊然後他不能透過媒體來做廣告 是不行他只是不能透過媒體做廣告他現在淘寶需要透過什麼媒體做廣告大家都知道淘寶他還需要做什麼廣告他繞了一個彎用港資成立台灣的分公司"},{"start":339.673,"end":360.753,"text":"那你要落地納管你要管他什麼我就簡單問你這一句話嘛你要用哪一個法來管他我簡單問你嘛這一家台灣的分公司有沒有繳稅他的營業額他有沒有繳稅他幾乎沒有營業額他只是一個推波廣就是這個發放小船單啊或等等一些情況你說他幾乎沒有營業"},{"start":363.673,"end":378.576,"text":"這跟我們社會的認知差別太大了吧那他沒有營業你為什麼要納管他你為什麼要叫他落地納管你要管他什麼我剛一直問你這句話嘛你一直要納管你要管他什麼然後你現在告訴我他沒有營業那他沒有營業你還要管他什麼你叫他直接公司收起來"},{"start":379.642,"end":403.858,"text":"各位原報告香港淘寶在這邊我們只有核准他廣告傳單的分送那現在大家在上那個淘寶他其實並沒有落地在我們台灣成立淘寶的購物網他大概都是用那個大陸的那個淘寶電商那這個部分目前納管的話就是說如果你沒有在台灣落地我們就不讓你可以經營那也是用這樣那這個部分因為涉及到跨部會可能我們還跟"},{"start":404.678,"end":427.687,"text":"蘇衛部那邊一起來討論一下怎麼去管理這個跨境電商這種沒有落地而違法經營的問題其實這個問題已經很久了淘寶這件事情還不只淘寶什麼拼多多各式各樣的這些跨境電商他現在就是鑽台灣的法律漏洞那這個過去大家從中國跨境買的包裹"},{"start":428.942,"end":454.811,"text":"常常我們這個包裹收到的時候裡面會收到一條豬肉條會收到一個豬肉乾會收到一個豬肉香腸這個都是漏洞好 現在非洲豬瘟入侵台灣很有可能是透過這些郵包我說有可能或者是被不知名的人士在這個"},{"start":456.789,"end":475.948,"text":"航運的時候帶進偷帶豬肉進來台灣總之這個非洲豬瘟已經在台灣產生已經在台灣出現現在我們要亡羊補牢要來管理這一些中國跨境郵包的時候這個郵包的數量最多我想應該就是淘寶嘛"},{"start":476.826,"end":495.461,"text":"那淘寶大家都知道他是跨境電商都知道他是中國是中國的阿里巴巴集團在管理管控那你們現在一直跟我說要落地納管我們沒有要讓他落地因為我們不想希望他在這邊合法經營"},{"start":497.915,"end":520.206,"text":"部長 我們要認真務實的去處理這個事情啊你不讓他在這裡落地合法經營他透過港資成立台灣的分公司那你現在又說台灣的分公司沒有在經營他是直接到網站上面去買那就沒有什麼落地納管的問題啊你管不了他嘛因為你都講了他沒有在台灣營業嘛他沒有在台灣經營嘛"},{"start":522.148,"end":536.784,"text":"你自己的立場 政府自己的立場都踩得這麼不穩了你還替他說話 你說他沒有在台灣經營這個我聽不下去嘛 然後政府又告訴行政院長要跟我們說要諾蒂娜管他不能在台灣這個有這個前台的這個齁"},{"start":540.101,"end":564.9,"text":"他現在不需要在台灣有前台的經營嘛直接網站連結到中國就上去了嘛直接就在中國的網站上就買了嘛那你要怎麼管理這件事情嘛我現在一直要問的就是說你要怎麼管理這件事情嘛所以這個為什麼要跨部會就是這樣因為就經濟部來講他只有讓中資能不能落地這件事情而已事實上基本上電商的管理是數位發展部在管的"},{"start":566.821,"end":586.879,"text":"這個部長 中資不能落地或者是該怎麼落地能不能落地這件事情的確討論很久中資拐了一個彎變成其他的不知名的資不管是港資什麼新加坡資什麼資它實際的後台還是在中國這件事情你們也要正視"},{"start":589.401,"end":617.266,"text":"這件事情我們不能相怨不能蒙著頭說他沒有在台灣實際經營實際營業我們不能蒙著頭去處理這個事情否則你後面你很難管我知道他如果違規的話我們就會把他取消資格那你又說他沒有在台灣營業啊所以他怎麼違規所以我們現在就是因為你的講法是前後矛盾的嘛部長我不要再問你了我再問下去喔會很難看的啦但是你自己立場要站好站啦我們不會讓他營業"},{"start":620.848,"end":641.563,"text":"我的建議是說不是你要不要讓他營業這件事情而是跨境電商包括有中資成分的這些跨境電商拐了一個彎進來轉了一個彎進來實際後頭控制還是在中國我們政府應該要怎麼面對這個是源頭的管理好不好 部長"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}