{"error":false,"id":["165020"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":165020,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165020","日期":"2025-11-05","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-4-19-9","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第4會期經濟委員會第9次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":4,"會次":9,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[19],"委員會代碼:str":["經濟委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第4會期經濟委員會第9次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2025-11-05T09:44:39+08:00","結束時間":"2025-11-05T09:54:36+08:00","影片長度":"00:09:57","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/0bb7d6ea348ff1d24236bae2ce1a68876e3cb72f09a57cc5462d9096eb7c9b673802b37089afccb55ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"鄭正鈐","委員發言時間":"09:44:39 - 09:54:36","會議時間":"2025-11-05T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期經濟委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查： \n（一）本院委員楊瓊瓔等21人擬具「公司法第二百三十五條之一條文修正草案」案。\n（二）本院委員許宇甄等17人擬具「公司法第三百八十七條條文修正草案」案。\n（三）本院委員吳秉叡等21人擬具「公司法第二百二十二條條文修正草案」案。\n（四）本院委員鄭正鈐等16人擬具「公司法第一百六十條條文修正草案」案。\n（五）本院委員楊瓊瓔等17人擬具「公司法第三百八十七條條文修正草案」案。\n（六）本院委員謝衣鳯等16人擬具「公司法第三百八十七條條文修正草案」案。\n（七）本院委員黃建賓等17人擬具「公司法第二百三十五條之一條文修正草案」案。\n（八）本院委員林岱樺等16人擬具「公司法第三百八十七條條文修正草案」案。\n（九）本院委員張嘉郡等18人擬具「公司法第三百八十七條條文修正草案」案。\n（十）本院委員何欣純等16人擬具「公司法第三百八十七條條文修正草案」案。\n（十一）本院委員郭國文等16人擬具「公司法第一百六十五條條文修正草案」案。\n（十二）本院委員牛煦庭等17人擬具「公司法第三百八十七條之一及第四百四十九條條文修正草案」案。\n二、審查：\n（一）\t本院委員牛煦庭等16人擬具「商業登記法第九條之一及第三十七條條文修正草案」案。\n三、審查：\n（一）本院委員賴瑞隆等17人擬具「能源管理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（二）本院委員楊瓊瓔等21人擬具「能源管理法第七條條文修正草案」案。\n（三）本院委員蔡其昌等19人擬具「能源管理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（四）本院委員鍾佳濱等20人擬具「能源管理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（五）本院委員邱議瑩等17人擬具「能源管理法增訂第十九條之二及第二十七條之一條文草案」案。\n以上全案於11月5日(星期三)進行合併詢答，11月6日(星期四)處理。【11月5日及6日二天一次會】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4.50284375,"end":6.19034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6.814718750000001,"end":8.282843750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13.851593750000003,"end":14.644718750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14.712218750000002,"end":16.028468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16.24784375,"end":34.81034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":35.55284375,"end":44.42909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":44.580968750000004,"end":49.103468750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":49.103468750000005,"end":49.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":49.37346875,"end":50.672843750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":50.43659375,"end":54.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":51.617843750000006,"end":52.81596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":55.98846875,"end":56.86596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":58.367843750000006,"end":61.658468750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":61.860968750000005,"end":71.63159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":71.64846875,"end":77.87534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":74.61846875,"end":75.24284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":77.85846875,"end":97.09596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":77.89221875,"end":77.90909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":97.87221875,"end":98.41221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":99.47534375000001,"end":100.53846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":99.94784375,"end":100.80846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":100.80846875,"end":111.27096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":111.72659375,"end":113.34659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":112.94159375000001,"end":113.85284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":113.78534375000001,"end":114.46034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":114.73034375,"end":122.15534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":123.30284375000001,"end":124.77096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":124.11284375000001,"end":149.94846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":151.18034375000002,"end":179.98596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":180.30659375000002,"end":183.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":183.52971875,"end":185.11596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":185.70659375000002,"end":212.43659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":213.34784375,"end":219.43971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":219.94596875000002,"end":223.75971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":224.23221875000002,"end":232.92284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":233.22659375,"end":234.45846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":234.42471875,"end":234.61034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":234.61034375000003,"end":234.64409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":234.64409375000002,"end":234.71159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":234.71159375000002,"end":234.76221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":234.76221875000002,"end":234.86346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":234.86346875,"end":235.03221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":235.03221875000003,"end":242.20409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":242.74409375000002,"end":252.07596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":253.05471875,"end":261.44159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":262.06596875,"end":269.42346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":269.96346875,"end":272.61284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":273.06846875,"end":273.52409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":273.96284375,"end":274.36784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":274.99221875,"end":275.49846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":276.17346875000004,"end":277.06784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":277.67534375,"end":280.91534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":281.06721875,"end":283.48034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":283.48034375000003,"end":283.63221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":283.63221875,"end":283.71659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":283.71659375,"end":283.86846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":283.86846875000003,"end":284.56034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":284.03721875,"end":285.42096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":285.42096875000004,"end":285.47159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","star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我想請一下工部長我們再請經濟部工部長"},{"start":13.988,"end":34.48,"text":"政委好部長好我想請教一下因為之前的經濟部長郭志輝他之前在113年7月30號有先預告修正能源管理法部分條文結果已經一年多了到現在都還沒有送來立法院請問一下部長情況到底是為什麼然後現在進度到哪裡"},{"start":36.029,"end":54.545,"text":"報委事實上我們已經有送到行政院了那行政院他還在做一些條文的一些檢視因為還要配合整個再生能源法案條例還有電源法所以現在行政院嘛對不對有沒有預計什麼時候會送到立法院來"},{"start":56.038,"end":74.279,"text":"他要拖多久不會 應該最晚大概一兩個月內但行政院的就是事實上行政院已經有討論過幾次會議那當然我不能幫行政院決定時間但是我相信很快大概我在想最晚大概兩個月內應該就會送出來"},{"start":74.679,"end":96.674,"text":"更快因為我們在討論中沒有辦法幫行政理解那我想請教一下因為當時候在這個預告修正的部分的時候我覺得裡面有三個部分其實是比較新的一個概念第一個部分是需求面節約能源管理從原本的定位朝向需求面的一個節約能源管理這部分那這個部分的時候部長是支持的嗎對不對還是"},{"start":99.502,"end":121.855,"text":"部長各位請說 支持嘛 OK好那另外一個部分就是說因為當時的部分他也表示要把再生能源納入規範這個部分也是支持的對不對 是的OK好那第三個部分的時候就是說當時的預告修正版本的時候有提到說要公開能源銷售相關的資料"},{"start":124.259,"end":149.149,"text":"這也是支持的所以這三個部分都有送到行政院板裡頭對不對ok好理解那這個部分我們就期待那希望說真的這個能源管理法部分我們是能夠盡快把它完善那對台灣接下來的一個能源管理部分會有更好的一個注意那另外一個部分我想今天因為今天本席就有提到一個公司把第160條的修正案我想請教一下部長"},{"start":152.067,"end":172.604,"text":"因為資誠之前在2023年曾經發布一個全球際台灣家族企業調查報告他特別提到說全台灣有七成以上的上市上位公司都是家族企業其中第一代掌管的高達54%其中有43%的企業對於接班還有股權傳承是沒有規劃的"},{"start":177.888,"end":192.114,"text":"部長你應該知道這個狀態因為部長對企業的了解應該也是非常深的我想請教一下在這樣的一個情況之下如果說我們現在還是用一個全體同意的方式來處理"},{"start":194.395,"end":221.916,"text":"共同共有的那個持股這樣的一個部分的時候我想請問一下部長你不覺得這樣子的時候我們接下來會有多少的一個企業台灣的家族企業會碰到了這樣子的一個企業僵局當中部長你可不可以簡單回應一下是 鮑委員這個題就像我剛剛事實上在報告的時候也就是說明那我們也跟跨部會有徵詢過意見那"},{"start":224.495,"end":251.507,"text":"過去最高法院的判決向來是認定要回歸民法那現在民法的規定他還是採用這個共識決的方式那司法院也認為 市部長你這邊有特別提到說透過遺產分割方式來解決嘛你知道很多家族企業第一代老闆走掉之後的時候他的遺產只要他有外面有私生子的時候這個問題一定沒有辦法短期內解決的"},{"start":253.083,"end":268.958,"text":"部長 我想請教一下如果說要用這樣的方式來透過遺產分割的方式解決的時候曠日廢時啊部長 你有沒有稍微去了解一下目前台灣的上市櫃公司當中到底有多少的公司碰到這樣子的一個情況"},{"start":270.034,"end":284.788,"text":"法委員 司法院有代表是不是請這個司法院有代表是不是也讓他說明一下因為法律的好 我們請司法院"},{"start":304.398,"end":323.79,"text":"謝謝委員的推詢那這個部分我們其實今天在這個我們的書面報告裡面其實有寫到就關於這個共有股份的權利行使的這部分其實因為試設政策考量所以本院這邊是尊重主管機關以及立法院的職權也就是說其實今天如果今天條文規定的是明確的話其實"},{"start":325.091,"end":353.588,"text":"所以我們要修法就這部分嘛這就是我們要修法的原因那現在企業界碰到這麼多共同共有的一個持股狀態的時候然後我們要解決所以部長現在你用司法院他在說法的時候完全不是要解決問題啊你知道嗎他只尊重現在的一個法律的狀態那我們修法不就是要解決現在企業碰到的問題嗎所以我想請教部長現在上市櫃公司當中到底有多少的企業碰到這樣子的一個方式一個"},{"start":354.528,"end":383.038,"text":"一個問題沒有辦法解決你有沒有一個統計的數字如果沒有的時候喔你回去了解之後再到本辦公室來報告我再問一下部長我們公司法當中現在法條有多少條不曉得連這個都不曉得有400多條對400多條具體數字都還不曉得我告訴你那你知道裡面有多少條跟股東會有關"},{"start":385.387,"end":407.77,"text":"都不知道對不對我稍微統計的是大概有80條以上是跟董事會的權責有關那麼這麼多的狀態的時候如果說我們因為這樣子一個僵局的時候董事會都沒辦法召開然後股東會沒辦法召開然後董事會沒有辦法改選那這樣企業不是蕩在那邊"},{"start":409.341,"end":428.716,"text":"我們經濟部這邊沒有責任要來解決這個問題嗎跟委員說明這個部分我們事實上有開過非常多次的專家會議在討論事實上對於股東權這個部分他除了管理權之外他可能還包括處分那這邊必須要去釐清因為"},{"start":429.372,"end":442.087,"text":"在民法上面他如果處分的話他就必須是回到是共識決但是股東權力的行使他不是只有管理所以這邊的話我們跟司法院這邊申詢他們的意見也是這個樣子"},{"start":444.005,"end":471.597,"text":"本席理解這個狀態因為你來本辦公室溝通過好多次那我們知道說其實他這部分包括整個權益的問題還有行為處分上面的一些相關的一個問題可是問題是如果我們idol在這個地方的時候這個問題我永遠沒辦法解決然後一個遺產的問題打個十幾年的官司所在多有如果因為這樣的狀態我們就沒有辦法去做董事會的改選去做"},{"start":473.342,"end":496.031,"text":"股東的一個股東會的一個招開等等相關的一個問題的時候我就對整個企業長期發展肯定是有很大的一個問題所以本席希望針對這個部分部長你可不可以好好的來解決然後我剛剛提到那幾個問題目前上市公司有多少碰到這樣子問題還沒有解決的之後到本辦公室來做一個很清楚的說明因為現在連土地法這種靜態的財產都可以用這樣子"},{"start":498.412,"end":519.5,"text":"多數決的一個方式來做解決為什麼我們動態的一個股東權益沒有辦法去做解決本席認為不太應該那麼在剛剛本席一開始的一個修法的一個說明當中的時候也特別提到那我最後再提到一個問題就是立法院這邊的時候有特別提到"},{"start":520.953,"end":534.413,"text":"能源署這邊對於陸域風機的選址管制的相關的一個規定那之前能源署是表示說沒有提供陸域風機的用地指引 因為選擇單位太多對不對"},{"start":537.097,"end":561.543,"text":"所以你們沒有辦法提出來可是問題是這個也不是解決問題的方式因為現在能源署是管這個部分的時候那是不是應該要作為跨部會的一個協商然後提出一個用地指引不要把這個問題直接丟給環境影響評估然後當作一個我們主管單位的一個推卸責任的一個狀態可不可以"},{"start":562.878,"end":591.987,"text":"好 我們來跟環境部還有各單位來討論一下那大概什麼時候可以有一個結果出來年底可以嘛 年底之前今年年底是不是 OK好那我們希望說公司法的部分我希望部長這邊能夠再去多了解一下之後再到本辦公室來做一個詳細的說明因為我覺得這個部分是很多台灣的家族企業都碰到的問題現在不解決 未來問題只會越來越多好不好謝謝"},{"start":594.983,"end":595.366,"text":"好 謝謝 謝謝曾委員"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}