{"error":false,"id":["165046"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":165046,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165046","日期":"2025-11-05","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-4-35-12","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第12次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":4,"會次":12,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[35],"委員會代碼:str":["外交及國防委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第12次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2025-11-05T10:46:55+08:00","結束時間":"2025-11-05T10:57:56+08:00","影片長度":"00:11:01","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/0bb7d6ea348ff1d25191e456ee15d326575289a78f60fae5462d9096eb7c9b67617c360b5c5c43e15ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"沈伯洋","委員發言時間":"10:46:55 - 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這一個呢這個去年的時候其實我就問過了但我覺得這個有必要再追因為這件事情跟我們今天的主題有關係因為這一個我們先不論因為川習慧他本身是一個結果他不是一個原因簡單來講我們這一個不管是美中的關係還是說這一個貿易戰這個進程其實不會因為這一個會有所太大的改變現在美國在意的事情大概都是那幾個"},{"start":44.802,"end":68.055,"text":"有一個非常重要的就還是跟產地有關的又或者說呢這個事情我們在總諮詢的時候也有問過在這一個經濟委員會也有問過那另外一件事情呢其實就是我們跟中國企業的關係所以淘寶這件事情就是因為我看到他們這一個這個總統院院長他之前有說呢希望要去研究這個限期落地的事情"},{"start":68.715,"end":88.96,"text":"那他就發了一個聲明說啊2018年的時候啊這個台灣分公司已經依許法規合法落地這前幾天的事情而已那這個跟我們之前理解就不一樣嘛對不對就是說第一個就是說中國淘寶其實不能算是在台灣真的有落地他真的有一個這一個跟我們投手會有關的是香港的那一家"},{"start":89.66,"end":109.939,"text":"那他做的只是一個分送的業務所以我之前有函文給經濟部在問這個問題的時候就經濟部有在調查調查的是什麼呢就是說香港這一個分公司那他在台灣做的這個業務有沒有符合他所設立的這一個目的嘛對不對如果他說只有分送那他是不是可以在捷運放廣告啊什麼等等之類的這是一條線那"},{"start":111.38,"end":139.528,"text":"如果只是按照法規來講的話我們可以針對這家公司到底有做沒做這件事情呢來做討論跟裁罰但其實呢他跟中國淘寶我認為他應該是分開的事情因為中國淘寶他本身就是一家電商嘛那這家電商呢他能不能下廣告跟他今天寄東西到台灣應不應該要收到管制這其實是兩件事情那我們呢其實當然已經解決了或者說已經討論了香港的這件事情但中國這件事情實質上是沒有解決"},{"start":140.368,"end":152.384,"text":"我知道其實這一件事情因為它牽涉到兩岸條例我們電商很多全世界各式各樣的電商都很多但是會受到兩岸條例規範的電商是只有中國電商對 亞馬遜不會受到這個兩岸條例的規範這個31條的適用範圍沒有到它"},{"start":156.229,"end":173.434,"text":"我知道因為陸委會在這個他也是在一起討論這件事情的範圍之內所以可不可以說明一下就是現在針對中國電商我們無論香港香港那個他有沒有分送要不要做廣告那是另外一件事就是針對中國電商這件事情目前我們的做法跟過一番是什麼"},{"start":175.131,"end":197.13,"text":"謝謝委員關心這個議題對於中國淘寶它確實沒有在台灣落地那它是跨境電商的模式所以現在行政院已經責成幾個部會包括經濟部 數位部 衛福部 還有財政部我們要分別就這個邊境的管制還有相關業務的推動已經成立專責的小組"},{"start":198.411,"end":216.364,"text":"所以可以看得出來其實在邊境管制是第一道防線財政部已經決定說未來如果透過電商的這些進口的話應該也要有進口報單的申報所以從邊境這邊來做第一關的"},{"start":216.884,"end":234.812,"text":"第一關的這個管制那目前呢就像我剛剛所報告的中國淘寶沒有來申請因為呢根據我們的這個正面表列入資來台的正面表列如果是跨境的電商他會涉及到不同的這個"},{"start":236.433,"end":251.965,"text":"這個業別那其中呢是不允許我們是不允許廣告業到台灣來做相關的服務以上好所以呢因為在這件事情上面如果今天行政院已經有責成一個小組要來討論這件事情的話第一個我想問一下如何就是34條的這個適用的空間"},{"start":253.746,"end":274.967,"text":"就是說我剛剛講31是打詐我剛剛講打詐是31然後兩岸條例是34就是34的這個第一項配合40條嘛它有一個這一個相關的規定就是說如果你沒有在許可的狀況之下你應該如何如何這個34條到底有沒有適用的空間打詐專法31條那是另外一件事情它所有的不利益可能會更大"},{"start":275.948,"end":293.858,"text":"基本上我們現在這個按照兩岸人民關係條例裡面是沒有開放入資來台投資電商特別針對電商這塊來講是沒有空間的但現在比較複雜的情況是在於說譬如說我們看到有的時候是變成他是港資或者說他裡面只有部分是中資他透過第三地然後用合夥的方式到台灣來投資"},{"start":295.018,"end":307.492,"text":"所以這個部分可能還需要再有更多的情況來做滾動式的調整但是我要跟委員報告就是說針對電商這一塊來講我們不管是中資或者是其他的我們總共列了8項"},{"start":309.935,"end":332.297,"text":"這八項裡面以淘寶的這個案例來講的話我們只有核准他進行電子資訊的供應還有廣告傳單的分送這兩項而已所以香港分公司申請的那一項所以他那個時候在媒體上面有講說他已經落地了接受監管所以他可以來從事電商的業務這個其實是錯誤的因為我們只有核准他這兩項那他從事了這兩項以外的其他項目來說的話他就是違法"},{"start":333.077,"end":352.527,"text":"你這樣提到我在追問一件事情我剛剛想到的就是說因為他們好像也有開記者會或什麼之類的他們開記者會的時候他的名義到底是什麼比如說他是用中國淘寶還是他是用香港的然後他有沒有符合他本來如果說香港因為香港的才有申請這個相關的業務他有沒有包含可以做這件事情我覺得這可能也要注意一下"},{"start":352.941,"end":369.464,"text":"是對跟委員報告就是說他來投資的是用香港淘寶的這個身份但是他事實上他在從事的那個項目裡面就是剛剛跟委員報告的他已經超過了我們核准他的這兩項所以我們針對其他的部分還包含像是拼多多蝦皮這個問題是更加的複雜"},{"start":370.305,"end":397.852,"text":"那淘寶的這個部分來講的話事實上我們是已經先針對了他違法的這個部分來說也跟經濟部還有跟相關的這個部會來演繹那其他的這個部分來說的話因為每個個案情況都不一樣但是我們可能會針對不同的個案來看我們現在的法律是不是夠用OK好 這個很感謝因為我覺得這是一個很大的問題就是說剛好最近朱溫的事情大家對於邊境管事也越來越重視那我覺得應該在這個機會我們一次性的讓國人很清楚就是說我們有哪些法律的工具我們不一定需要立法院這邊修法"},{"start":397.992,"end":420.371,"text":"就是行政端用既有的法律工具看能不能先做好管制那不然的話這其實你說民生的危機就算了以後可能會有國家安全的危機也有可能會影響到我們的貿易的談判這個影響非常的巨大我覺得這非常重要的事情是委員提醒非常重要因為我們確實有看到我們委託學者做一些研究他有提醒我們譬如說洗產地的風險這個現在美國非常高度的關注"},{"start":420.891,"end":437.239,"text":"甚至也有國安的風險怎麼說呢因為我們會發現有一些化學的這種燃料啦或者工具或者是有可能形成國安危機的這樣子的這種危險的這種物品他可以用拼裝的這個方式所以他可以個別個別的透過這個法律的漏洞進到台灣來之後最後拼裝起來變成生化武器"},{"start":437.919,"end":459.044,"text":"雖然沒有發生但是我們覺得必須要嚴防啦更甚至於已經有發生的情況譬如說校園裡面的電子煙我已經收到非常多家長的反應他們都反應說這些電子煙就是透過這種境外的電商那沒有明確的是講哪一家但是確實我們發現境外電商不是只有這次豬瘟有疑慮有太多太多的對於社會對於我們年輕朋友的危害是產生這個疑慮我們會加以來檢討"},{"start":461.345,"end":488.997,"text":"好 那我覺得這個之後我再繼續來追蹤接下來我想問的是外交部但我看時間不一定夠用就是說 部長就是說我簡單問一下因為前面其實蠻多人問過的就是說這一個APEC就是明年的這一個官員附中的這個法律風險因為我們現在不是說官員附中有風險而已我們連一般人民去中國都會失蹤這個到香港都會被抓走所以呢 就是就這一點而言目前的準備狀況如何"},{"start":490.683,"end":516.545,"text":"我們因為有預期到中國可能會有這種動作所以在去年他申請明年要辦APEC大年會的時候我們就已經有透過APEC的這個平台他書面的承諾第一個要確保我們的人身安全另外當然是APEC精神包括今年的這個所謂雙部長的會議的共同聲明也再次提到必須要是這個保障平等參與的權利"},{"start":518.526,"end":527.009,"text":"那這個就是說除了國格不能被貶低之外這當然了那我想問一下就是說這個安全相關的這個問題它的主管機關是要外交部負責還是要請國安單位負責我們現在國安會是有開始在針對這個跨部會有在開始做好這個"},{"start":539.632,"end":558.203,"text":"未來的這個因應因為這個我覺得因為主管是誰可能蠻重要的因為假設因為當然都是在我們這邊國防外交委員會但是我們想說呢因為這個也跟預算有關嘛就是說我們之後針對這樣的執行針對這個官員的這個保護這未來應該是重要的事情所以它到底是在比如說它在哪裡被編列"},{"start":558.863,"end":571.797,"text":"它的量能是擺在哪裡然後我們要怎麼去做監督這件事情可能要先釐清但是我不一定要在公開的場合講非常的清楚說到底是哪一個單位來主責但是是不是能夠在這一兩個禮拜我們來稍微整理一下相關這個官員附中風險的問題"},{"start":574.179,"end":582.844,"text":"是當然過去APEC我們大家都跨部會那當然外交部有國主司嘛因為現在當然加上陸委會也是很重要因為在中國大陸所以這整個應該說我們已經啟動了針對因為12月就開始明年度的活動"},{"start":591.008,"end":609.36,"text":"所以我們就會面對到事實上在這一次在韓國我們就開始在跟中國的APEC資深官員在交涉所以這個是不能夠讓今年形成明年為什麼我們那麼堅持不能用地方政府的官員去接我們的領袖代表"},{"start":610,"end":638.736,"text":"那如果明年去那邊他還是比較找一個地方層級的來接機那另外就是安全面我們要求就是對於會員國的保障而這個不只我們我想連我們友好國家他們也都表達這個關切才讓中國來舉辦他們是有承諾的那如果他們違背這個承諾我想APEC是共識決我們一定會強力的這個做反制因為他大會要有共同的聲明其實去年啦其實"},{"start":640.036,"end":659.231,"text":"一些友好國家說我們暫時打了一場很很漂亮的勝仗不但把這個APEC過去中國企圖矮化成兩岸的這個來往回到APEC的平台而且今年也繼續我們希望明年也能夠確保我們參與的利益跟出席者的安全好 謝謝部長 謝謝主席 謝謝"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}