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總統府秘書長韓維本院通過修正財政收支劃分法部分條文自請總統公佈案經行政院研議以其中第八條第十六條之一及第三十條條文確屬之案來行以依憲法參修條文第三條第二項第二款規定陳鳳總統何可依請本院負以案宣讀完畢"},{"start":1785.629,"end":1813.259,"text":"報告全院委員會以上事案全院委員會審查時邀請行政院院長列席說明由國民黨黨團推派七人民進黨黨團推派六人台灣民眾黨黨團推派一人進行尋答今天進行審查中華民國一百一十四年度中央政府總預算案支付一案依上星期五院會通過之決定"},{"start":1813.812,"end":1820.745,"text":"先請行政院院長說明20分鐘再進行委員詢答現在請行政院左院長說明時間20分鐘"},{"start":1844.753,"end":1874.162,"text":"韓院長江副院長各位委員先進今天本人非常榮幸而且深感責任重大能就114年度中央政府總預算行政院經總統核可已請大院副議在此做充分的說明跟報告希望能夠得到各位委員先進的支持我們共同"},{"start":1875.086,"end":1898.752,"text":"有機會再一次來審議今年中央政府總預算的內容讓它能夠更趨於合理未來的執行能更順暢對國家的發展能更有助益今年大院在日前審議本院提出的114年度中央政府總預算"},{"start":1900.25,"end":1925.322,"text":"但是行政院認為在審議的結果有以下數項認為有自愛難行之處第一是稅出三減的總數有爭議而且要求行政院自行調整三減數高達636億元這有違權利分立而且與預算法第49條的規定不符第二"},{"start":1929.327,"end":1942.704,"text":"預算刪減的幅度及金額 針對特定的機關 特定的項目而刪減巨幅的金額 以影響法定機關正常運作及履行其法定職務的行為"},{"start":1945.285,"end":1974.046,"text":"第三預算凍結金額比前三年增加了九倍而且多項的凍結案的解凍條件難以執行造成機關運作上無法延續而且部分的主決議內容也有自愛難行以上數點我們提請大院能夠附議行政院對立法院決議的預算案認為有自愛難行之處經總統之核可"},{"start":1975.666,"end":1998.899,"text":"已請復議我們在10天內的時間內完成了這樣的程序這次復議案的提出是為了使國家的政務能夠順利的推動也依照憲法的相關規定經總統核可在今年2月27日我們已請大院復議我們請就剛剛所陳述的三大理由做簡略的說明在稅書刪減總數有爭議這一項"},{"start":2002.964,"end":2028.332,"text":"我們依照憲法第59條第63條及憲法增修條文第三條第二項第一款之規定行政院有制定施政方針並依施政方針編制預算提出預算與大院審議及執行預算的權利以進行推動各項的重要政務而大院立法院有議決預算案之權"},{"start":2029.492,"end":2045.412,"text":"這是在發揮監督的功能因此施政計畫的形成跟相關預算的提出預算的審議的執行具有行政與立法兩院之間權力分立的意義這是憲法民主原則權力分立的原則具體的實現"},{"start":2047.25,"end":2076.422,"text":"依預算法第49條規定預算案的審議應注重稅出規模預算餘處計劃績效優先順序其中稅出以你變更或你設定之支出為主審議時候應該要就機關別、政事別及基金別等決定之114年度總預算稅出三減總數有不符憲法民主原則跟權利分立的原則"},{"start":2078.121,"end":2098.835,"text":"這是一線預算法第49條規定的情形往年總預算大院刪讀的內容都包含總刪減數及審查後的稅出總額那這次並沒有如此的宣讀在這次大院宣讀的內容計算刪減宣讀數有2076億元但是經行政院主計處核算"},{"start":2107.713,"end":2126.761,"text":"僅僅有1439億元兩個數字不同而且大院為宣讀總三檢數及審查後的稅出總額造成審查後稅出總額有爭議我們難以拒之行另外在要求本院進行調整三檢數高達636億元這一項"},{"start":2129.946,"end":2137.755,"text":"依照大院審議的這個宣讀通案刪減數不得低於939億7500萬元扣除已經核實計算的通刪數僅僅有303億元尚需由本院自行調整636億元"},{"start":2150.356,"end":2179.271,"text":"這是無法如此自行調整的內容而且影響本院施政的整體資源配置跟施政計畫內容之推動事實上也妨礙了行政權作為行政立法分際所以導致了政策的成敗未來如何追究責任跟歸屬政治責任難以建立更與預算法第49條的規定有所違背其次"},{"start":2180.169,"end":2204.547,"text":"預算刪減額度及金額針對特定機關特定項目巨幅的刪減影響法定機關正常運作及履行其法定義務司法院釋字第391號及520號的解釋提到預算案是以具體數字記載政府機關每年度維持其正常運作及執行各項施政計畫所需的經費"},{"start":2206.969,"end":2231.623,"text":"包括推動各種施政計畫所需的財政資源但是如果影響法定機關的正常運作影響履行其法定職務已逾越了審議預算合理刪減的範圍114年度總預算審議刪減數有多個層面影響法定機關正常運作以及履行法定職務逾越了審議的合理性"},{"start":2232.665,"end":2249.891,"text":"所以以下有六項我們可以來說明總預算三減比前三年平均增加六倍三減的程度衝擊業務的正常運作第二部分三減提案的三減數超過原來原編的預算數"},{"start":2254.738,"end":2262.204,"text":"以外交部為例114年度預算裡面媒體政策及業務宣導費用1億1227萬元但是大院審查報告三減總數達到1億4080萬5000元超出預算數2953萬5000元"},{"start":2280.322,"end":2296.496,"text":"而這只是我們列舉當中七項的一項而已其中的一項而已顯不合理那至於三減數集中在特定機關的業務費影響該機關的正常運作包括監察院三減2.34億元不當黨產會委員會三減0.12億元並凍結了0.02億元"},{"start":2305.973,"end":2312.536,"text":"行政院也被刪減1.54億元令凍結1.3億元總統府刪減0.46億元也凍結了2.15億元這都影響機關的基本運作另外在刪減集中在特定項目當中在大陸地區旅費的刪減高達80%業務難以推動而且其中速發部國家通訊委員會是全數刪除"},{"start":2335.601,"end":2362.359,"text":"國外旅費及出國教育訓練費也統三百分之六十其中一樣速發部國家通訊傳播委員會跟監察院全數刪除我們跟國外的連結因此中斷也影響到我們國際的連結毒品走私打擊電視詐欺洗錢防治國際金融監管的合作等等"},{"start":2364.131,"end":2391.452,"text":"這都是已經造成各院各機關事實存在的執行上的困難另外在媒體宣傳會上也統三百分之六十其中行政院以及公共工程委員會外交部文化部全數刪除我們就無法對外做進行的必要的說明另外特別會也刪除了百分之六十行政院監察院權序部等十一個機關特別會全數刪除"},{"start":2392.861,"end":2421.642,"text":"而且不得留用一般的事務費也統三了百分之十這是往年的兩到三倍這些費用統事務費的統三造成我們在辦公廳設的清潔維護警衛保全 檔案管理機關辦理訓練救災任務等等以及考試院辦理公務人員考試入用人員訓練升官等考試或晉升官等訓練等等的業務無法推動"},{"start":2422.867,"end":2448.242,"text":"其考試院的部分有590位學員的學習機會受到了嚴重的影響另外在通山部分國外旅費、出國教育費、國內旅費、特別費都設有不得流用的限制一旦刪除就完全無法來推動另外在預算的凍結數比前三年增加為9倍而且解凍的條件"},{"start":2449.022,"end":2478.34,"text":"很多都是要到院會來處理這顯然也是立法院非常自愛難行之處另外在凍結數較前三年平均增加90%的情況底下凍結數是達到宣讀數裡面根本沒有數字我們和指示做主計數的統計算達到1300億元相當是高這是前三年平均數140億元的九倍之多"},{"start":2479.537,"end":2493.403,"text":"所以多項凍結的案件解凍的條件難以達成我們統計過去二十多年來大部分的最後一筆解凍的時間都在那個年度的十一或十二月份"},{"start":2495.029,"end":2523.502,"text":"一筆預算能夠拖到年底才來解凍等於是整年無法動談這是過去在解凍案上面所呈現的事實那今年金額更多案件更多 程序更難如何讓我們面對這個解凍的程序同時組結一要求各機關政策宣導費用單一廠商得標金額不得超過5%這個限制有違政府"},{"start":2525.201,"end":2551.207,"text":"採購法第37條第一項有關機關訂定投標廠商的資格不得不當限制競爭之規定若是一個50萬元的標案要有20家廠商才能夠來得標在執行上各位委員宣敬你們認為這樣有可能嗎其中再一項刪除台電撥補的1000億元這一千億元是要撥補台電過去"},{"start":2554.366,"end":2566.671,"text":"因為補貼政策 過去因為俄烏戰爭 能源 燃料大量的上升所產生的重大的虧損台電到現在財政已經虧損超過將近4300億元撥補1000億只是補貼過去的 補貼過去的政策的虧損而已並不是要來補貼今天哪一家的廠商"},{"start":2579.366,"end":2601.147,"text":"如果能夠這樣的補貼讓他的財政能夠健全那麼他能夠比較正常的運作但是明顯的如果沒有辦法來撥補台電這一千億元那麼他勢必只有舉債調高這個電費等等這個方式來因應他財政上的困難"},{"start":2603.015,"end":2625.198,"text":"這恐怕對於整個民生跟國家財政也會造成相當多的沉重的負擔同時對我們的產業的競爭也會非常的不易撥補台電的1000億元是從補貼2022年到2024年間它因為戰爭燃料以及先行吸收民生電價所造成的虧損"},{"start":2627.179,"end":2656.72,"text":"光是台電在住宅及小商家民生用電的成本台電就已經吸收了2600億元2024年底他的虧損我剛剛報告過已經達到4300億左右經濟部已經責成台電能夠採取各種必要的手段健全他的財務確保台灣的經濟發展跟能源供應民生及國家安全等夢想都是經濟部台電必須要去推動所以"},{"start":2657.253,"end":2682.599,"text":"我們很期待能夠各位委員先進大院能夠同意113年度跟114年度兩年我們都提出了追加預算跟撥補但是現在這兩件都沒有辦法達成如果都能夠無法獲得支持將迫使台電面臨調漲電價的壓力這是不爭的事實大院的決議將針對民生產業造成重大的影響"},{"start":2683.672,"end":2702.14,"text":"所以請大院再次審慎的來審視為民生產業考量不要造成這種民生物價跟產業發展的雙重負擔以上所舉是在難行之處本院經過審慎的評估認為如果大院所通過的114年度中央政府總預算"},{"start":2703.649,"end":2728.968,"text":"它違反了憲法的權力分立原則跟責任政治的原則而且刪減及凍結的結果影響法定機關正常運作與履行其法定的職務因此依據憲法賦予本院的權限已請大院復議我衷心的期盼通過復議案的審議我們依照憲政的程序行政立法兩院攜手合作"},{"start":2730.578,"end":2752.087,"text":"委員先進都能夠以人民的福祉為優先重新審視今年度中央政府總預算以確保政府能夠順利推動各項福國利民的政策全力照顧人民全速發展經濟讓國家能夠穩定向前行以上報告懇請大院能夠支持期待"},{"start":2753.134,"end":2772.962,"text":"我們有共同理性的討論再有更多的時間跟討論的機會讓中央政委總預算回歸到合理不要針對特定機關特定項目不要有高額度的刪減也不要有高額度的凍結而且提出那麼難以解凍的條件"},{"start":2774.192,"end":2795.595,"text":"那行政院將一本尊潔的原則我們不會浪費任何國家的資源我們對人民對國會直接的負責大家所過去對行政院種種的提醒以及過去所發生若干的案例我們都謹記在心我們用這樣的心情期待再重新"},{"start":2796.772,"end":2818.299,"text":"步劃出一個兩院能夠合理互相溝通而且是人民所期待的一個合作的憲政運作機制在此懇請各位委員先進能夠大力支持讓這項復議案能夠成立行政院能夠具以合理的推動全力的為國家發展盡大家最大的努力謝謝大家 謝謝"},{"start":2825.979,"end":2839.685,"text":"謝謝卓院長的說明報告全院委員會現在進行詢答每位委員詢答時間15分鐘以疾問疾答方式進行輪到發言委員如不在場,視為棄權首先請吳委員私要詢問好,謝謝主席,有請卓院長"},{"start":2854.755,"end":2869.018,"text":"好 請卓院長務委員好院長好 大家辛苦了"},{"start":2870.641,"end":2888.559,"text":"這個會期是一個新的開始我們非常樂見在野黨的委員一直在提民生第一民生優先那麼就非常扣合今天的主題國家是大家的預算是全民的預算就是民生"},{"start":2889.64,"end":2913.371,"text":"所以說針對總預算的復議案立法院能不能撥亂反正還是一意孤行立法院是要跟人民站一起還是持續站在人民的對立面害怕罷免的委員們復議案就起義來歸這就是能夠實踐的眼前的機會民生第一下一頁"},{"start":2916.182,"end":2936.046,"text":"復議是憲法的行為行政院有權提請復議立法院有責來嚴謹審查而公民更有知情的權利透過預算案的行使重新審視議案所以說當這一屆的立法院違憲亂政成為事實一憲提請復議就是義務"},{"start":2939.451,"end":2954.849,"text":"我上一次站在這裡質詢您的時候,您自己說您是復議的院長但是我要說,依憲法賦予的民主救濟原則提請復議是您的憲政責任"},{"start":2956.704,"end":2970.129,"text":"所以下一頁我們來看看民進黨執政之後經濟好稅收豐財政佳政府有能力做更多就擴大建設國家擴大照顧人民擴大壯大台灣的行動"},{"start":2973.05,"end":2977.051,"text":"所以說114年總預算來到史上新高3兆1325億我們增加的預算新編列的有2806億這珍貴的新增的預算我們將經濟發展的紅利與全民共享"},{"start":2990.556,"end":3015.016,"text":"完全是取之於民用之於民譬如說軍工教加薪投注於健康台灣健保財務我們的國民年金的撥補住宅基金的撥補還有國防的軍事投資包括公共建設的挹注當我們表現這麼好才會呈現預算是史上最高能夠支出更多但是危機來了"},{"start":3017.308,"end":3037.683,"text":"財政擁擠 no longer財政災難 coming soon為什麼 下一頁當前野黨一直在說你們預算史上最高既然多編那就多刪一點造成了今年的總預算省最亂 刪最多 凍最嚴在我看來"},{"start":3038.824,"end":3059.513,"text":"這就是讓我們的公務團隊以後大家少編一點 少做一點事這是在懲罰優等生這是在懲罰勇於任事的政府您同意我的觀點嗎因為國家 國人的辛勤努力我們的稅收增加了有這麼多的稅收增加我們才有能力剛剛委員所指出的2,806億"},{"start":3061.772,"end":3071.19,"text":"而且我們今年稅入稅出我們還有209億的稅計剩餘我們沒有全部把它用支出把它編掉表示我們是衡量國家財政合理的來規劃"},{"start":3072.694,"end":3099.344,"text":"所以說不要懲罰優等生不要懲罰勇於任事的行政團隊在野黨一直在說你編最多刪一點點不痛刪一點點有什麼關係行政院不要哭窮喊窮我認為這根本上就是在懲罰勇於任事的團隊我們把稅收經濟發展的紅利透過預算的編列"},{"start":3100.985,"end":3123.943,"text":"取之於民用之於民所以我要在這裡第一個我要非常強力的來捍衛在野黨不能因為立法院審查的總預算案是史上最高然後來合理化自己可以刪減最多下一頁最近呢罷免風潮全台串聯"},{"start":3125.643,"end":3149.961,"text":"我要呼籲在野黨的委員 與其太空太胖啊要用公投來綁罷免 或者是要用倒閣來換罷免最好的機會就是眼前的機會支持復議案是挽回民心最好的一個機會因為這就是實踐民生第一 讓人民看到你們在乎人民的福祉"},{"start":3151.718,"end":3176.321,"text":"你要不要再一次對在野黨的委員喊話撥亂反正吧起義來歸吧害怕罷免就應當支持復議案我當然誠心誠意的期待各位委員先進能夠用更理性的態度真正來審視這個整本的中央政府總預算裡面任何不合理的地方我們誠心接受大家對刪減所提出的各項理由但是也應該聽聽各部會"},{"start":3178.656,"end":3187.029,"text":"甚至於其他各院包括總統府對編列預算當時的想法跟未來執行的計畫只要把國家的預算放到"},{"start":3188.477,"end":3208.038,"text":"終於國家認真執行的機關跟人預算不應該出問題我們就是這樣子對自己負責也對歷史負責對人民負責我們都要來建立責任政治喔下一頁這一頁的PPT是我過去在幾次復議案如果復議案有機會上台詢答的話這是您當時第一次提醒復議的時候說的話"},{"start":3209.6,"end":3218.723,"text":"再次審視法案透過民主對話捍衛憲政的程序因為復議就是一個review、rediscussion的過程"},{"start":3219.673,"end":3239.025,"text":"沒有討論不是民主尤其總預算案國會繼續的拒絕討論或是壓縮討論這對社會公民之的權利是不公平的所以我非常遺憾作為執政黨的幹部我們在朝野協商柯總召一直在呼籲"},{"start":3240.586,"end":3260.262,"text":"總預算加財劃法兩案綁在一起就是前所未有更何況財劃法被當作人質肉票綁在立法院一個多月才送出然後跟著總預算綁在一起然後呢兩案綁在一起來處理復議案的詢答一案只有一天"},{"start":3261.553,"end":3287.386,"text":"不夠不夠不夠這個不夠不只是台積電的國際擴廠的計畫這也是國會的民主討論不夠不夠不夠民進黨的要求是一案兩天一案至少有24位立委可以有360分鐘6個小時好好來對話好好來直求對決當在野黨一直說行政院造謠的時候"},{"start":3288.226,"end":3310.593,"text":"就站上諮詢台上讓真理越辯越明看看是誰胡扯看看是誰造謠但是總預算案才化法兩案綁一案總預算案的時候委員會的審查完全被推翻委員會中心主義被踐踏院會表決的時候只有一檔五分鐘三檔十五分鐘討論總預算案"},{"start":3312.398,"end":3336.507,"text":"才化法更是三分鐘送出委員會 院會還舉手表決零討論難道這樣子的沒有討論要持續成為新國會的常態嗎為什麼民進黨團爭取我們至少一案兩天柯總裁會朝野協商說破嘴在野黨依舊傲慢的無視民意民進黨只有六個委員可以站在這裡討論我們珍貴的國家總預算民主是"},{"start":3342.082,"end":3368.474,"text":"少數服從多數民主更是多數尊重少數復議案的行使前少數黨委員發聲的權利被噤聲被剝奪民進黨只有六位委員你知道我們多少黨團的委員都爭取今天能夠上台來表達意見要挽救總預算沒有討論不是民主再一次成為這一屆藍白當家立法院的常態我要譴責"},{"start":3370.086,"end":3395.734,"text":"下一頁您提出12個致愛難行的總預算要提醒復一的理由我歸納四個違憲第一個違憲預算遭上史上刪減最高是前三年均值的六倍以上還有宣讀數跟實質的刪減數兜不起來我這裡秀出來的是正規版跟今年的開天窗版"},{"start":3396.914,"end":3417.819,"text":"從來沒有任何一年的總預算審查之後立法院沒有一個精確的刪減數而且整段文字充斥著不確定的概念敘述甚至因為最初沒有確定融資裁員的調度也沒有辦法有具體數字這就是違反憲法所規範的權利"},{"start":3420.609,"end":3447.324,"text":"分立以及責任政治的歸屬我更要說立法委員我們對於民意負責啊憲法63條立法院有議決預算之權我們就要負責任的審議預算而不是送出一個刪減數是多少到現在沒人知道而且刪的是史上最高審查最亂就是第一個違憲第二個違憲"},{"start":3449.945,"end":3473.014,"text":"939億的通案刪除居然要求行政院自行刪減636億他又一次的違憲也違反預算法49條剛剛您的報告都提到當立法院自己沒有辦法去踐行他自己的憲法忠誠義務還來強害其他憲政機關的權力核心領域的行使這是第二個違憲第三個違憲"},{"start":3477.376,"end":3497.351,"text":"凍結數13811 戰列 有沒有人知道具體數字是多少但它已經是前三年凍結數的九倍 更設下了史上最難的解凍條件非常多的財經跟法學的學者 譬如說蔡茂穎教授他說凍結預算是逾越憲法賦予立法院的預算審議權"},{"start":3498.812,"end":3515.712,"text":"我們的黃士興教授他說立法院以動帶刪就是立法院侵犯行政權徐仁輝教授說凍結預算就形同於毀損預算的契約都違反了大法官的解釋264號391號520號"},{"start":3519.716,"end":3542.594,"text":"更何況您剛剛報告的時候有說過去幾年來解凍都是多數八成以上八成五以上甚至九成以上都是在年底11月12月才能解凍這一次還要提到院會來解凍您對於未來的解凍是不是相對的悲觀我覺得這樣的一個解凍的程序我們覺得很難達到"},{"start":3543.68,"end":3562.154,"text":"但是如果有必要我們也會準備好但現在我們所準備的還是盡快把副議案能夠通過我們重新來審視你眼前的藥物副議案要通過第四個違憲特定的機關被惡意的報復而且不只對行政院還包括其他的憲法機關"},{"start":3563.636,"end":3581.374,"text":"監察院山東合併96.7%行政院你們院本部83.6%總統府更高達七成四這都是惡意的過度集中他鎖定了甚至在沒有審預算之前在野黨的委員就對外放話"},{"start":3582.555,"end":3604.866,"text":"我要刪減總統府我要刪減司法院我要刪減監察院全部都應驗了這又違反憲法相關的權利義務分立民主原則所以這四大違憲下頁連總統府的夜間照明獲得2020年的台灣光環境大獎然後呢"},{"start":3605.871,"end":3634.868,"text":"被迫夜間熄燈設計界文化界這段時間的串聯說一個即將開啟的暗黑時代人民還要忍耐嗎監察院連衛生紙都要自備憲法機關之間是平等相違的但是立法院再一次去踐行了立院最大我就是比你大我砍你我殺你我讓你沒有辦法行使你的憲法忠誠義務這是我歸納的四大違憲所以下一頁"},{"start":3635.848,"end":3663.195,"text":"院長我們都期待復議案能夠成功我們都期待預算就是民生立法院好好的來讓人民願意相信一次但我們相對悲觀那如果依據這麼多違憲的事實當違憲亂政成為慣例一憲提起四憲就是義務後續的下一關"},{"start":3665.624,"end":3676.982,"text":"您視線應當是行政院也應當啟動的準備吧跟委員報告剛才我在向大院報告的時候我發現很多在黨委員坐在位置上面也都有頻頻點頭"},{"start":3679.86,"end":3696.071,"text":"對內容他們也先有所指我期待這個點頭代表他們對自己在這裡行使職務上的一個態度我也希望在明天的投票當中能夠真的有些委員支持這個做法"},{"start":3696.812,"end":3715.737,"text":"支持中央政府從事者的復譽不是讓他全本照科通過了照本通過不是 是重新審視合理的三件還是有的但就算沒有如此的話我們依照憲法合法合憲的程序都是行政院的義務因為行政是唯一有提起復譽者機關的權利我們也會有其他的憲政救濟"},{"start":3716.653,"end":3733.967,"text":"所以我們還是要做好事先的準備但是我非常期待您剛剛說的在台下頻頻點頭的在野黨委員能夠把今天的點頭化為明天投票的行動支持習政院的復議案我時間快到了來下一頁我最後要講一個這一次的藍白惡意的針對特定機關"},{"start":3737.23,"end":3755.542,"text":"他們鎖定的NCC 述發部 陸委會 外交部跟文化部每一箭每一刀都砍向台灣 向世界發聲的權利他們的政治義謀就是配合中共讓政府被消音 台灣在國際社會被消失下一頁包括他們偷漢刪減的國際旅費"},{"start":3757.924,"end":3771.235,"text":"媒體宣傳費就是要弱化臺灣配合中國將臺灣噤聲跟鎖國這是一個本席非常在乎臺灣在世界的發聲不能因藍白我們會持續地下鄉下人民報告一起守護珍貴的國家"},{"start":3788.281,"end":3797.747,"text":"好,謝謝吳委員接下來請傅坤祺委員、翁曉琳委員、林倩祺委員聯合詢問時間45分鐘"},{"start":3828.73,"end":3832.551,"text":"主席請主席長請主席長說明"},{"start":3850.489,"end":3875.637,"text":"那個主席待會請那個國防部、外交部跟內政部請準備國防部、外交部還有內政部部長請準備主席長剛剛聽到卓榮泰院長正式來跟本院報告"},{"start":3878.629,"end":3904.992,"text":"我們一直以為通過的預算是兩兆兩兆九千接近三百億照今天你給卓榮泰院長向本院提出的報告實際刪除數本院對外公布是兩千零七十五億包含因為貪贓枉法"},{"start":3909.456,"end":3934.23,"text":"養綠電養蟑螂養派系的台電補貼一千億實際各部會刪除的預算是一千零七十五億所以今天左榮泰院長的報告說實際刪除數不是兩千零七十五億而是一千四百三十九億對不對請直接回答本席因為只有錄音不用點頭的方式可以嗎"},{"start":3934.926,"end":3961.391,"text":"可以所以實際刪除數是1439億114年度的年度預算是刪除1439億是嗎是 因為這個部分他要求我們自行要刪減636億但是問題他沒有指定項目這個在針對那個我們一個行政和立法的一個權力的分離的一個原則上就是違反"},{"start":3964.264,"end":3983.056,"text":"八年民進黨執政每一年都會要求在野黨統三多少趴大家來商量過去不是都是統三嗎但是以前三的金額很少是不是你知道告訴本席是不是還不是就好是不是"},{"start":3983.564,"end":3997.903,"text":"以前的統三大概差百分之一到三左右以前執政黨民進黨要求在野黨就協商總預算統三幾趴這是立法院的慣例也是常例"},{"start":3999.366,"end":4023.152,"text":"那現在通過的預算等於今天卓榮泰院長再次昭告全國國人實際通過的預算是兩兆九千九百八十六億就是真正的三兆的預算總刪除數是4.5個百分點所以三兆的預算來給新政府他說沒有辦法執政"},{"start":4024.315,"end":4045.1,"text":"我們真的很好奇沒有能力執政就下台一鞠躬嘛民進黨還是有很多人才能夠執政的謝謝主席長來我們接下來請三位部長請國防外交和內政部長請備詢請國防部長站中間部長請站中間 謝謝"},{"start":4058.386,"end":4078.101,"text":"國發會 園民會 客委會請準備來我們來請教內政部請教這個國防部部長國防部顧部長請教一下114年的核列數4710億去年的核列數4340億"},{"start":4087.11,"end":4112.325,"text":"我們增加了多少億四百多億所以今年度的預算比去年度國防預算多了四百多億部長 請看著北溪不要緊張所以多了將近九個百分點年度預算多了九個百分點比去年多了九個百分點有沒有自然難移情"},{"start":4114.689,"end":4125.359,"text":"跟委員報告,譬如說現在有一個通山的,您剛剛一直提到通山的一個比例的問題但他這一次加入了一個不得留用"},{"start":4126.26,"end":4149.168,"text":"那我就舉一個例子我們國外跟出國教育訓練會因此被刪掉了2.41以後不得留用那我簡單講就是說我們新式武器都要到美國去換裝所需要的戒章訓練還有我們要到參加國外的學訓因此這樣子的一個"},{"start":4150.56,"end":4179.108,"text":"不得流用的結果我們勢必要減少我們訓練的射擊的發數還有相關的人數規模這個會影響 嚴重的影響我們這一個進行實戰化訓練人力建構這一個不得流用這一個部分是相當嚴重的謝謝你了 請尊重本會好不好以及請你適可而止所以國防部比去年的預算多了9個百分點"},{"start":4180.926,"end":4206.931,"text":"現在你說部分不能留用的部分你覺得自然難行自然難行的金額是多少以國外旅費的部分的話就有2.4億國內交通跟差旅費3.2億這個也不得留用那麼政策這個宣導經費的預算這個部分是依據全民國行教育法第九條這是我們的法定義務"},{"start":4207.771,"end":4236.865,"text":"因為他本身就規定所以是多少錢本席在請教你多少錢不需要告訴本席相關的法調本席現在持續你的部分請不要佔用本席的人本席問你是多少經費就請告訴本席請剩下的部會介紹的部會不要用這種方式回答本席的問題本席很客氣的在請教 您是說現在立法院就三檢的宿舍三檢的宿舍大概八十幾億吧你自然男性的部分有八十幾億"},{"start":4238.018,"end":4253.969,"text":"我治安難行的部分你告訴我兩億三億然後還有多少治安難行的部分我治安難行的部分呢譬如說國外旅費是2.4億國內的交通跟差旅的部分是3.2.1億政策宣導的3.6%設備級之後是3.6%大概是2.9億等等這些都會造成一些接近20億"},{"start":4267.208,"end":4292.962,"text":"所以本席現在這裡很清楚顧部長多了400億自然難行的部分將近20億立法院通過國防部的預算遠超過你自然難行的數字你說不能留用沒有關係你可以向本院來申請不管是追加減也好都可以申請了解了嗎"},{"start":4296.267,"end":4317.666,"text":"我想委員這樣的講法希望國民黨團一致的意見就這一個部分我們還有一個彌補的方法那既然沒有關係你覺得有什麼認為是可以彌補的方法你就提出來各位部長本席問什麼你回答什麼本席沒有問的請你不要回答接下來"},{"start":4318.959,"end":4345.336,"text":"本席已經很善意告訴你多了你四百億你所有一二十億自然燃性本席已經告訴你有什麼你認為自然燃性可以向本院提出來接下來林佳龍部長委員好去年的預算增加多少錢我們原則是三百一十九億增加多少錢那麼"},{"start":4347.172,"end":4370.657,"text":"3之後我們現在是3.13.95億那增加大概是7億有沒有資格來行有大概多少金額因為我們現在外交的工作我想委員也了解世界各國都想跟台灣關係請告訴本席多少金額"},{"start":4373.683,"end":4400.576,"text":"我們希望能夠恢復包括像國際宣傳費還有我們現在在包括跟國際宣傳費多少金額國際宣傳費多少金額1.11億如果你覺得自然難行多了你7億今年多給7億你說你少了1億多自然難行你可以向本院提出來謝謝委員內政部 劉部長"},{"start":4404.793,"end":4430.126,"text":"今年比去年預算多多少錢我們多的不是太多大約如果跟那個部本部來講我們目前為止的背山跟洞的部分大概是十幾億左右但是比較重要增加多少金額本席問的問題為什麼很奇怪這些部長你不知道你貴院的預算嗎本席請教你今年比去年多多少錢不會太多"},{"start":4431.058,"end":4443.326,"text":"不會太多你內政部主管沒有多很多本席在問的是你內政部主管本席問的問題請你回答本席的問題內政部主管今年比去年多多少金額本席還要告訴你嗎不知道那你怎麼做部長不知道本席告訴你沒有關係今年比去年多了400億"},{"start":4462.953,"end":4488.421,"text":"成長幅度將近40%內政部主管將近所有其他的相關的署等等內政部主管所以內政部主管今年預算增加了多少錢如果你把住宅基金放進去的話是增加將近400億左右但是其他幾乎都維持沒有變動現在本席告訴你國土署多了200將近280億消防署"},{"start":4493.939,"end":4513.731,"text":"多了百分之一百的預算將近一倍所以如果你還覺得多了四百億給你還有這門請向本院提出來三位部長請回這個來請這個我們希望部長請回齊的時間有限請國防會請國防會 園民會 科委會園民會 科委會主管請備詢"},{"start":4524.571,"end":4541.08,"text":"請教育部、法務部、經濟部請準備國安會、客委會算了,你們六位部長一起來好了不然你們這個行動的時間有點行動不良時間是不是先暫停如果他們這樣走路都要兩分鐘以上來,我們請打握時間"},{"start":4555.012,"end":4579.893,"text":"來 現在是國發會 科委會跟園民會嘛那我們再請這個經濟部來 請經濟部部長法務部教育部法務部部長教育部部長 請備詢交通部要交通部部長嗎來來 國發會今天預算比去年多多少錢我多了6.8億不止吧"},{"start":4585.437,"end":4591.64,"text":"我從40.3%增加到47.25%不是這個金額所以沒關係啦 主委今天比去年多了11億給你 多了45%怎麼連部會首長來這裡提復議預算是多少都不曉得那我們再檢討什麼復議案啊好 再過來"},{"start":4613.516,"end":4639.07,"text":"如果有自然擔心 向本院提出來可以嗎可以啊好 謝謝接下來 園民會這個今年比去年預算多多少錢應該是差不多增加13億不過它主要是增加在計劃補償的部分那如果去年比去年預算多13億園民會如果自然擔心的話 可以跟本院提出來可以嗎是好 謝謝客委會對 我也比去年多19億"},{"start":4642.381,"end":4666.37,"text":"客委會不是退伏來 客委會今年預算比去年增加大概兩億多而已四億那是刪減過後刪減過後是四億四億以上不是四億以下所以今年預算比去年多如果有自然難行的話可以向本院提出來 可以嗎好 謝謝再來經濟部"},{"start":4674.943,"end":4699.093,"text":"今天預算比去年預算多多少錢不曉得 部長請回來這裡都不曉得自己的預算來 法務部部長 今年預算比去年多多少錢增加12.31"},{"start":4701.294,"end":4724.025,"text":"增加19億多沒有關係你們因為這是中華民國第一次主計長不給立法院實際統三可以三的金額都不給我們沒有關係各部會是無薩薩很正常這個是法定預算是不是但是呢好你沒關係你就加起來嘛多了19億多然後呢有沒有自然來行"},{"start":4725.63,"end":4749.493,"text":"這部分最主要是統三這部分統三的部分如果不會的話回去問一下這個主計長如果主計長不適任就把他撤換我現在是告訴卓榮泰院長那另外有些指定刪減因為不能留用部長如果沒有辦法如果沒有辦法有自在難心的部分請向本院提出來好不好 謝謝來 教育部"},{"start":4755.539,"end":4766.044,"text":"今年預算比去年多多少錢就我們政策上的一個推動需要增加278億你送出來就沒有多那麼多嗎"},{"start":4767.932,"end":4771.996,"text":"你收出來就沒有多這麼多嗎教育部多280億沒有錯啦我們這個表出280億對的我們多了超過280億給你增加的幅度是8%對許多這個優質的平價又多所有的年輕家庭的照顧他就多了40幾億49億"},{"start":4789.056,"end":4811.953,"text":"沒有關係因為今年立法院給教育部的預算多了將近300億所以如果你還覺得還不夠的話可以向本院提出追加可以嗎有自然耐心的部門也可以向本院提出來來交通部"},{"start":4816.806,"end":4841.328,"text":"交通部 今年比去年預算多多少錢跟委員報告因為今年很多的交通建設進入高峰期所以今年的預算增加了389億389億 謝謝我們的數字大概都有些差異就是因為主計總署不給我們資料不給我們資料這是中華民國行縣以來立法院第一次行政院的主計長不給我們資料"},{"start":4845.057,"end":4870.644,"text":"所以交通部本席再給你介紹一下我們這個觀光署多了30億這個公路總局多了173億鐵道局多了146億所以呢我們希望交通部今年好好該做的建設要做不要說沒有錢你要的錢我們都有給你"},{"start":4871.943,"end":4899.555,"text":"委員您的那個數字可能沒有扣掉刪除跟凍結的沒有關係因為主計現在主計長還不給我們所有的資料所以本院今天是不能說雞同鴨講但是我們現在瞎子摸象就是今年比預算今年比去年預算多很多錢如果自然難行的話可以向本院提出來好不好 謝謝接下來農業部衛福部文化部環境部"},{"start":4900.27,"end":4924.501,"text":"我們是不是先請這些部長請回然後接下來請農業部、衛福部文化部農業部今年預算比去年多多少錢"},{"start":4926.431,"end":4950.39,"text":"我們今年一千六百九十二億比去年增加了八十三點二十四吧大概八十三點二十四好如果自然來襲的話請向本院提出我們今天就是接下來衛福部是今年預算比去年多多少錢我們因為人民的健康的需求增加我們多變了三百一七億那省完以後多了三百零六億也就是說刪除了十一億"},{"start":4952.594,"end":4981.196,"text":"所以有自然難行的話 向本院提出來文化部比去年少很多我們編了290億 被31億動34億我要解釋 動的那個理由我們無法解決所以他還是跟3億一樣部長 本席在問的問題請你回答本席沒有問凍結 請問刪除我們多多少億我們有多變少啊"},{"start":4984.418,"end":5004.837,"text":"文化部多了這麼多 你要跟去年比啊跟去年比對啊 我變少啊文化部怎麼會比去年少你知道文化本席要特別把你留下來跟你請教喔今年的核列數比去年多了26億多你怎麼可以在這裡公然說謊呢文化部"},{"start":5009.278,"end":5038.532,"text":"比去年多了26億如果你看不懂加減乘除本席再開一個課來教你好不好如果自然難行 向本院提出請回來 接下來環境部那個文化部本席會特別關心你因為你在這裡公然說謊本席會特別去請教 還去委員會找你明天本席還會再問你你再回去查清楚 本席明天還會再問你再過來那個環境部"},{"start":5039.668,"end":5062.377,"text":"包委我們反而是比去年減少兩億左右沒有關係你講的是事實那如果有自然來襲的話向本院提出可以嗎好是沒問題謝謝接下來請金管會國科會還有海委會金管會主委國科會主委還有海委會主委"},{"start":5071.112,"end":5087.439,"text":"委員好我們監管會今年比去年預算多多少錢我們估計三減以後今年比去年多6500萬左右我們是算1億啦沒有關係那有沒有 如果有自然難心的話可以向本院提出"},{"start":5090.201,"end":5113.455,"text":"因為付款的高峰委員每一年付款額度不一樣今年是付款的高峰所以一定得增加而且還有新增的事項不能不做新增了43億我們在委員會跨黨派的委員都支持所以被刪掉的話我們的影響還很大至愛難行今天故意就是提出來至愛難行"},{"start":5114.355,"end":5132.048,"text":"你明天還可以回答,你不要急本席請教你的問題,請你回答你明天還有機會,明天還有45分鐘讓你講本席今天把釐清一些事情而已哪一個部會不用付款請回,請回在這裡亂講,滿口胡說八道不要用明帶的方式在這裡"},{"start":5144.598,"end":5169.287,"text":"來再來不要影響本席的時間好來再過來來國科會今天比去年多多少錢連三個園區多了差不多130而已國科會比去年多130如果有需要的話要追加還是"},{"start":5170.457,"end":5171.819,"text":"所以來我們請卓院長請卓院長備詢請主席"},{"start":5189.301,"end":5215.857,"text":"管制下會場的次序本席在這裡質詢請執政黨必要中惡劣的方式在下面攻擊好不好好 我們請大家相互尊重來 部委員 翁委員 林委員好今天很溫馨只要不要狡辯的本席都會很誠懇的來了解行政院到底有什麼問題現在我們經由早上"},{"start":5216.892,"end":5243.738,"text":"卓榮泰院長所提出來今年我們實際刪除的數字不是2075億而是只有1439億所以通過是兩兆9986億接近三兆接近三兆可以說就是三兆啦如果有什麼自然難行的話本席剛剛已經請教各部會都可以向本院提出來都先可以向本院提出來那接下來"},{"start":5244.926,"end":5272.16,"text":"我想我們總預算的部分已經講得很清楚了但是呢 本市要在這裡向你嚴正抗議我能不能先請問 你用的主計長竟然在過去所有朝野協商每一年執政黨 民進黨都要求我們統申一個數字多少趴過去就是長年的慣例那今年的統申 然後這個主計長說他排不出來"},{"start":5273.08,"end":5296.827,"text":"排不出來表示他能力不足溝通協調都不足他可以來行政院溝通可以來立法院各個部來溝通各委會都可以溝通從1月21號通過總預算到現在都沒有來所以呢如果不適任的話就應該要換人而且呢去年的GDP的成長才4.59%"},{"start":5299.434,"end":5324.332,"text":"但是今天我們剛剛一個部會一個部會的詢問幾乎啊大多的部分都超過10%的年度編列的預算所以啊我們不願意講國王的心意啊但是都已經戳破了現在本席就總預算的部分給左院長一個良心的建議不適任的部會首長要換掉"},{"start":5326.533,"end":5348.598,"text":"準備來這裡吵架的部會所長不是要來解決問題的時候把他的車換掉過去當過民意代表現在已經不是民意代表不用民意代表的鬥性在這裡回答問題本期問的問題很簡單但是不用這種方式來回答如果這樣來回答的話以後啊內閣會不會很好待啦我們再來"},{"start":5350.19,"end":5377.192,"text":"我能不能答覆兩個問題就好了本席沒有問你的問題所以不用回答本席現在請教可以對話現在本席問你的問題接下來問題可以回答總預算的問題讓我答覆一下吧你剛剛已經在這裡報告過了本席也一個一個不回詢問過了來現在請教院長明天還有45分鐘回答明天是財務法啊沒有關係都一樣選前騙票選後跳票"},{"start":5380.482,"end":5395.934,"text":"賴清德總統 蕭美琴副總統一再的說要給花東人 包括蔡英文總統說要給花東人一條安全回家的路花東快曾經蕭美琴副總統在2020年跟本席競選立委的時候馬上通過了說要盡快來對這個"},{"start":5410.243,"end":5426.872,"text":"這個花東快要再一次做環評結果現在再一次做可行研究結果現在當選了就不算數了為什麼現在花東快又退回請回答委員應該知道我們對於蘇花"},{"start":5430.523,"end":5452.495,"text":"本席不知道才請問我怎麼會了解花了多少的心血在做蘇花安蘇花改這兩項工程蘇花安本席待會再問你請回答本席的問題為什麼我們首先要改善的從北部到花蓮這一段讓大家有一條安全回家的路所以這兩條路我們花了也將近3000億元那這個工程的持續進行"},{"start":5454.8,"end":5483.358,"text":"委員所關心的是花蓮到台東那花蓮到台東這一段我們會將來在審慎合理的時間合理的經費合理的施工方式以及地方之所需要那現在這個程序已經在交通部裡面反反覆覆的一再的來做任何的審議是不是請部長能夠說明本席現在報告委員本席沒有要你回答請不要讓不要請維持會場該有的資訊本席沒有請教你回答請不要回答"},{"start":5484.878,"end":5505.315,"text":"卓院長 部長請回本席請教院長一個父母關要有父母心整個台灣西部密密麻麻的這種交通網絡東部是蔡英文總統"},{"start":5507.257,"end":5533.742,"text":"賴清德總統對人民的承諾選前一張臉選後一張臉選前的承諾選後就翻桌你剛剛告訴本席說啊還要看情況啊逐步來做那你當時就應該來花蓮要選票的時候就講清楚嘛以後還要慢慢考量立法院都做了決議啊"},{"start":5535.7,"end":5563.81,"text":"去年7月16號就通過花東塊要積極興建而且12年內要完成民進黨 科建平總召 吳士堯書記長通通都有簽字 幹事長都有簽字所以啊 為什麼給你們這麼多的總預算但是都不能用父母心啊來看整個國家的建設"},{"start":5565.706,"end":5582.96,"text":"所以呢 民進黨欺負花東人民 欺負很久了絕對沒有您剛剛說啊 什麼三千多億啊本席啊 什麼叫做蘇花改 蘇花安三千多億蘇花安通過了沒有 本席問你通過了沒有"},{"start":5583.612,"end":5612.62,"text":"那這個通過了沒有回答本席的問題嘛不要狡辯嘛通過了沒有嘛時程都已經去確定了通過了沒有嘛時程確定以後他就會依照程序來通過時程通過了程序通過以後好本席上一次總諮詢你你告訴本席這個資料是錯誤的我們公文全部調出來完全正確的上一頁本席上一頁"},{"start":5614.261,"end":5617.124,"text":"本席再問你一次你可以再騙一次沒有關係蘇華凱行政院 可信研究行政院99年2月8號核定101月9號動工11個月蘇華安108年12月20號核定現在5年了"},{"start":5637.677,"end":5659.433,"text":"也不在交通部 也不在國發會他們都審查通過了現在躺在您的桌上行政院長本人審議中五年了我不曉得行政院長 卓院長你有這個專業 你可以審議啊是不是你有這個專業我還沒用不到一年的時間放在您桌上 從出國發會到你這邊"},{"start":5664.286,"end":5690.368,"text":"去年底就出國發會 現在你還在審議當中你看一下 這就是民進黨的效率108年12月20號核定 到現在五年了五年了國民黨執政 十一個月動工動工你現在還在審議如果歷任的院長都做得慎重 我也必須慎重再下一頁 把公文"},{"start":5692.455,"end":5716.649,"text":"你如果沒有看過行政院的公文 本席可以發給你沒有關係那你會不會汗顏 五年了東部人還說什麼三千多億 三千多億在哪裡三千多億列出來給本席看 在哪裡不要天天在立法院說謊 可恥的事情報告副院長"},{"start":5718.703,"end":5729.009,"text":"就是公文都在這裡指責閣員說謊副院長應該制止一下好我們相互徵詐好我們繼續打擊意義好不好那是一回事不是說謊的問題"},{"start":5730.612,"end":5756.368,"text":"我會願意跟委員對話今天不是第一次來詢問你總預算已經詢問過了今天你上一次你告訴本席我們都可以調錄調光碟出來看上次我本席的公文是錯誤的本席今天讓你看公文然後公文哪裡有錯誤上次委員講的不只這一件很多邏輯都不對調光碟就知道要不然我明天再放給你看你上次說本席的資料錯誤所以啊"},{"start":5759.38,"end":5784.606,"text":"一個宰相一個閣奎有沒有一個父母關的心情你現在正式告訴花東人民花東快又被退了蘇華安不知下落花東快被退了而且花東快還是立法院三黨全部簽字的院會宣讀通過本席在這裡請教"},{"start":5786.564,"end":5815.274,"text":"沒關係 你明天還可以回答本席因為我去年每次到花蓮那個談話都很愉快你都沒有說我們沒有回關的心情談話愉快我在這裡也可以跟你很快樂也可以擁抱你都沒有問題只要你答應的事情花東人的建設你好好一樣樣去做過去院長審慎我必為整個國家的發展是均衡的必須東西平衡發展"},{"start":5818.066,"end":5840.995,"text":"你的3000多億你今天花又留在這裡請你今天下班前把什麼3000多億交給本席你在這裡正式的詢問我們這個預計會花3000億你告訴本席花的你花了3000多億請你把這個資料送到立法院來送到本席辦公室明天本席還會請教你接下來來我們來看一下台積電加碼1000億"},{"start":5845.425,"end":5873.019,"text":"連之前的六百五十億總共一千六百五十億前後要蓋五座新的晶圓廠兩座的先進的封裝廠研發中心都設在美國三座晶圓廠連之前的六百五十億美金總共一千六百五十億美金五兆多台幣院長你於心何忍"},{"start":5874.144,"end":5888.087,"text":"把我們的護國神山搬到國外去了我們的戲盾從此破裂請問院長你同意這樣做嗎委員"},{"start":5889.405,"end":5912.396,"text":"國內的產業是政府指向哪裡他就要到哪裡嗎還是政府說他不能到哪裡他就不能到哪裡他當然要去問我們的投審會進到投審會我們就會逐一審慎的來審議但是產業的全球佈局政府採取樂觀的態度但是要跟流台灣要以台灣領先為優先您剛剛提到投審會 投審會過了沒有還沒過啊還沒過"},{"start":5915.731,"end":5916.556,"text":"那都已經跟美國總統正式"},{"start":5920.271,"end":5947.69,"text":"正式已經開過記者會了難道你認為說這一個投資是假的嗎那他要經過我們投審會的審議符合我們的各種規定所以在跟川普總統台積電跟川普總統在宣布之前您知不知道台積電跟川普總統的談話他是國際布局的一部分您知不知道當然知道啊您同不同意"},{"start":5948.73,"end":5969.199,"text":"同不同意我們樂觀產業界的國際部署我們樂觀產業界的國際部署我沒有資格說我同不同意不同意國家的政策我們的護國神聲還有你你樂觀你沒有同不同意的權利你是什麼來我們給他看一下你連相關的法令都搞不清楚"},{"start":5971.461,"end":5984.218,"text":"國外投資有以下情況者主管機關得不予核准影響國家安全對國家經濟有不利的發展他如果不經過統審會他不符合我們的規定我們當然有權利啊現在覺得你同不同意"},{"start":5987.663,"end":6011.028,"text":"已經讓美國投資你同不同意五兆台幣你同不同意我不是投審會其中的議員我能在這裡講我同不同意嗎但是一定要符合國家的法令符合投審會的規定店長你要概括負責國內所有的政治經濟耶你要概括負責耶是嗎 那剛剛上一題我不同意那是我們的護國神山耶剛剛那個蘇阿快我不同意蘇阿快我不同意你贊成嗎"},{"start":6015.319,"end":6035.315,"text":"可以啊你可以說你不同意啊你可以告訴我們告訴全國國人你說你不同意沒有關係你可以公開講嘛不要遮遮掩掩嘛過去的院長慎重我就必須慎重你把你心裡話講出來是嗎不是我是請問你說所有東西都要我同意是這樣是嗎就公開誠實告訴大家嘛依台灣所處的情況這會影響到我們多麼嚴重我們的護國深山"},{"start":6045.749,"end":6061.455,"text":"這是國民黨在台灣40年的血汗推動出來的台積電那你要我們鎖國嗎 完全都不能帶他出去嗎北京沒有說要鎖國啊我們最高科技的製程2奈米 1.6奈米都要去美國都要去美國我們沒有國家安全嗎"},{"start":6073.874,"end":6089.35,"text":"沒有國家安全嗎沒有科技製程的安全嗎我一再地表示各種國際的布局要保持台灣領先的地位關鍵技術一定是以台灣領先和研發中心要以台灣為核心我們要佔據這個關鍵生產鏈的地位這個不能從價往價"},{"start":6094.194,"end":6119.397,"text":"2奈米1.6奈米關鍵全世界最先進的技術都搬到國外去了那是幾年以後的事情有人知道嗎就算社長是幾年以後還是幾年以後的事情你認為幾年以後你不當行政院長是不是啊不是幾年以後才會幾年以後他才會量產在美國國家的規模是看整個幾十年啊什麼幾年以後"},{"start":6120.78,"end":6133.202,"text":"什麼內閣啊所以院長我原本的意思是不能出去當然不可以出去啊全國國人同意沒有你這樣講話是代表中央政府嗎你這樣講話是代表中央政府嗎"},{"start":6137.662,"end":6147.21,"text":"我代表我們中華民國國會中央機構本期正式的告訴你本期是中央機構我代表中央政府我歡迎我們國內的廠商對全球的佈局"},{"start":6153.763,"end":6182.114,"text":"所以是同一台機電護國神山到國外去是不是要嚴守國內的要求請問一下這對我們上下游整個產業的出走空洞化有多大的影響你知道嗎我們希望它的隨時供應鏈能夠整體的發展國家整體的發展隨時供應鏈也要隨時供應鏈國家整體的發展好本席先來教育你一下什麼叫做"},{"start":6183.622,"end":6212.248,"text":"國家政體的發展他們帶走的是五兆台幣還不夠它上下游一年GDP的產值是多少錢這在台灣是重創那您是讓台灣在台灣還有人才的出手有十一個廠家在台灣設廠本席現在告訴你那是以前大家台積電在台灣累積的成果不是你造成的但是今天出手是你們民進黨政府造成的本席現在告訴你"},{"start":6214.96,"end":6234.728,"text":"我們佔全世界高階晶片生產的百分之九十以上只要台灣有安全危機這會影響到全世界的科技發展當然是台灣的保護 台灣的護國神山所以台灣人民說他是護國神山所以不要凍結三減五民共和黨旅程"},{"start":6240.277,"end":6268.75,"text":"護國神山你不曉得嗎我們需要護國群山我們要建立護國群山再一次的告訴你我們護國神山遷走了以後整個產業在地繳稅在地所有薪資發放的消費在地所有這些人才的流失"},{"start":6271.829,"end":6298.38,"text":"整個產業大幅出走台灣空洞化消費空洞化繳稅空洞化對整個產業的撞擊不是三月良宇能夠講得清楚本席在這裡再一次的告訴你那個部長您告訴公開告訴媒體說台積電去美國你不知道"},{"start":6300.521,"end":6321.658,"text":"報告委員我是說他沒有送我們的投審會有沒有送投審會這件事情我不知道因為他沒有送所以我怎麼可能知道台積電加碼美國因為沒有送投審會所以經濟部長不知道不知道有送沒有送投審會"},{"start":6323.863,"end":6341.335,"text":"所以因為沒有送投審會所以你不知道那所以說要送投審會你才知道所以這件事情包括賴清德總統總太院長在整個台積電網美的過程當中你通通都不曉得"},{"start":6342.355,"end":6361.923,"text":"我們當然知道啊怎麼可能不知道現在你又知道了不是啊你要看看前一天已經開了記者會大家都知道的事情怎麼可能第二天不會不知道如果您是在這裡啊主管一國的經濟啊但卻是人頭的話"},{"start":6364.005,"end":6388.104,"text":"不知不覺還是後知後覺本席覺得你不如掛罐歸去把你的長才在我們商業界好好發展會得到更多的尊重不會像這個國家總統行政院長在做我們護國神山要崩山的事情都沒有先讓經濟部長了解所以本席在這裡深刻表達遺憾"},{"start":6390.114,"end":6418.844,"text":"部長沒有受到尊重 真的沒有必要委員不必遺憾 我們共同努力事情就會往好的方向 一起努力就會往好的方向對於本席的說法 你有什麼回應沒有我想這個委員的這個想法我們尊重啦但是這件事情我想你是充分的誤解你也不了解這個狀況 你就下這樣的斷語我覺得非常遺憾這是你告訴全國國人的 不是跟本席講的"},{"start":6420.087,"end":6441.879,"text":"來那個 卓院長護國神山的崩山又是民進黨政府在您的隔魁任內啊造成全國這麼大的一個撞擊我們的護國神山中華民國在台灣累積了75年的實力的護國神山今天終於啊"},{"start":6443.076,"end":6470.821,"text":"讓全國國人了解我們的卓榮泰卓院長說樂觀其成樂觀產業發展所以護國神山的出走我們看一看什麼叫經貿大戰什麼叫科技大戰當科技被掏空的時候台灣還剩下什麼不是你說的奔山我樂觀其成請你不要用這個短影片在外面污衊中央政府所以你說怎麼樣你沒有樂觀其成"},{"start":6471.701,"end":6487.642,"text":"我樂觀其成樂觀其成是他的全球佈局不是委員說的護國登山奔上我樂觀其成你原不要用這段短片去外面污衊我們謝謝你謝謝卓院長你又樂觀其成了所以本席現在終於了解"},{"start":6488.544,"end":6508.297,"text":"我們國家的葛奎對於護國神山整個徹底把台灣出賣崩山連條件都沒有講就直接拱手把台灣75年來的努力全部送給大家送到國外去本席特別提醒總統派院長"},{"start":6509.588,"end":6517.817,"text":"就不用提醒 我們對國家的使命感不會比你差他一再的污衊啊 你們兩位在旁邊都無動於衷啊我最後還要謝謝兩位委員兩位委員在旁邊無動於衷 他一再的污衊嘛"},{"start":6531.292,"end":6543.904,"text":"我要謝謝兩位如果有意見今天沒有機會講 試一下跟我談主席啊 他不斷地打斷我們本席的話本席在這裡就今天本席是和音樂社來詢問這個卓院長"},{"start":6549.212,"end":6549.452,"text":"好 我們時間到"},{"start":6578.918,"end":6587.103,"text":"好,謝謝副委員、翁委員、林委員,也謝謝左院長下一位我們請林國成委員詢問"},{"start":6613.932,"end":6626.485,"text":"好 我們開始下一位委員的詢答好 主席時間還沒有開始以前我希望權益問題"},{"start":6627.85,"end":6650.775,"text":"在場同仁聆聽個別委員的意見我不希望我們跟院長在對話過程當中有所干擾因為我認為這樣一不禮貌二對院長也不好意思所以我要拜託主席這一點給我們一個尊嚴好不好好謝謝林委員好請卓院長好我們請卓院長備詢"},{"start":6661.667,"end":6686.269,"text":"林委員好 謝謝院長 我也知道因為你就任快一年過去我認識的卓院長到現在我坦白跟你講我內心話必須要跟你請述一下我真的過去的卓榮泰院長跟現在卓榮泰院長"},{"start":6687.421,"end":6707.259,"text":"我有一點驚訝不太一樣但是感情一樣可是就事論事所以我的主題就很簡單今天你提出互議案當然是你的權利我們一定要去尊重但是我在這裡有一個最簡單的理由兩個"},{"start":6709.136,"end":6729.306,"text":"編列預算是行政院的權利吧是是吧但是審查預算也是立法院的權利吧對 議決法案預算對現在又恢復原來所認識的軸容態一向如此這個議題是沒有錯吧沒有錯那就謝謝院長了"},{"start":6736.892,"end":6762.998,"text":"我說實在的我就感覺到很奇怪史上最高的預算你們還是自愛然行可是你又講審查預算又是立法委員之前例那我就不曉得你今天提出這些自愛然行的復議案我真的想不透我想來想去我也不要跟你談細節我們就談觀念的問題"},{"start":6767.113,"end":6787.964,"text":"所以院長我說實在來接下來你可以看得出來這個請你公請你看一下從2027這次到2024都是民進黨蔡政府在執政可是節節上升的總預算"},{"start":6789.295,"end":6799.745,"text":"但是我們看到2005年我們的總預算刪掉以後還有兩兆九千四百億也就是"},{"start":6801.496,"end":6826.753,"text":"利潔最高那當然你的理想你的報復或許要更多這個當然我們要尊重可是在我們立法院認為說該浪費的該不給的我們刪掉預算你剛才已經講立法委員刪掉預算是理所當然也是職責所在啊所以"},{"start":6827.509,"end":6851.733,"text":"一定 我們說實在 既然要談問題 我也不想跟你吵架我也不想你回復的問題 都是拐彎抹角 賣!卓榮泰不是那種人 但是我們針對問題來探討未來如何在這個 整個總預算的部分 如何去把它化解"},{"start":6852.369,"end":6876.676,"text":"因為這些總預算是你最高行政首長也是中華民國的行政院長這個你們要來執行有自愛難行當然程序可以走可是走完以後又怎麼樣呢還要再靠大法官的視線嗎這樣搞下去適合提同兩點簡單說明"},{"start":6878.837,"end":6892.001,"text":"因為稅入的增加我們才有稅出這麼多而且今年我們還有209億的稅劑剩餘所以我們沒有把稅入全部用完再來我們今年原編3兆1325億"},{"start":6894.687,"end":6911.058,"text":"因為其中有2,806億是去年沒有的新增計畫如果扣掉這個2,806億我們就是跟去年預算差不多在三減我們就沒去年預算上但是你們都沒有在聽這段啦你剛才的報告我都聽了"},{"start":6912.599,"end":6934.649,"text":"我都聽了你不需要再重複你講你到立法院來任何一句話我都會洗耳恭聽那你有這個問題那我就感覺到很奇怪了我們現在來談大問題好 接下來下一張我就感覺到很奇怪了民進黨在執政的時候他們可以刪預算"},{"start":6936.09,"end":6959.191,"text":"那你們現在就講民眾黨跟國民黨不能三一算我沒有這樣講過合理的三講話好那沒有關係你在這個部分你有你的看法但是立法院有立法院的立場啊不是嗎三過頭的自然難行我必須表達出來什麼叫三過頭嘛三過頭是你認知立法院的認知是完全不一樣喔一定"},{"start":6959.972,"end":6984.231,"text":"一定你的報告我看得出來啦不是 刪減數超過預算數這怎麼辦啦好 那沒有關係怎麼會沒有關係沒有 院長我們接下來你刪了一百塊 你刪了一百二十塊怎麼會沒有關係怎麼會 怎麼會是這樣這是你們的認知有時候底下給你的資料根本好 來接下來我們再來看這是事實啊 來剛剛交通部林部長也說了嘛"},{"start":6985.913,"end":7013.53,"text":"我說實在話啦我說實在話 院長說實在的啦我最不滿意的就是行政院帶頭造謠這個部分我沒有造謠好 你沒有造謠好 那現在所有的造謠就是無中生有囉來 我簡單說幾句來 錦霄的部分劉部長在這裡這完全沒有刪嘛啊你們也說我們刪一刪 部長不要起來 不要起來"},{"start":7014.946,"end":7033.012,"text":"另外 潛艦的部分 我想顧部長在委員會審查預算的時候講得很清楚這是凍結案 根本沒有刪那你剛才 業務費刪除就是影響你聽我說完 互相尊重一下你在說我 不是在跟你打斷啊 對不對 你讓我講完"},{"start":7035.473,"end":7052.427,"text":"有就有 沒有就沒有那事實上來講還做一些 側翼做一些節能減電補助100億這完全造謠 根本沒有這回事嘛另外統一花票 你們現在領不到啦欸 拜託好不好"},{"start":7053.608,"end":7081.531,"text":"這叫做法定預算從營業額提撥3%這根本也不可能嘛另外 講快一點新安 新清安現在不補助了這是根本也沒有這回事嘛一定 你要聽我說這裡你們沒有 你們就想沒有那是誰無中生有我們要把無中生有化為真正的原因今天的問題才可以解決的一定 你聽我"},{"start":7082.732,"end":7108.501,"text":"對特定機關特定項目的統刪包括業務費那就影響這些業務的執行好 那個等一下我還會談好不好 等一下我會談所以啊 像出國會這個出國會刪的是官員部分跟選手有什麼關係鬧得灰灰洋洋 刪得十一億啦這些棒球選手等等這類的東西對立法院根本就是造謠抹黑嘛另外"},{"start":7109.341,"end":7136.784,"text":"我說實在的什麼數位部啦 iPhone不能上市啦等等這些兒童的醫療根本都是惡意嘛所以我說實在還有很多啦 還有很多因為時間的關係我特別要跟院長報告我就感覺到很奇怪我們不是很尊敬美國嗎我們美國關係不是很好嗎所以在這個部分你看看喔"},{"start":7137.981,"end":7148.027,"text":"川普當然還是有人講他不好但是你看看一上台他就馬上3減20%到30%的這些預算是他們"},{"start":7155.457,"end":7170.489,"text":"總統自己刪但是我就感覺到很奇怪我們預算給來歷年最高但是你們又說自愛難行美國可以為什麼我們不可以來 一定 你說一下"},{"start":7171.813,"end":7195.138,"text":"還是回到剛剛那句話所謂預算最高是因為有我們對話才會有價值預算最高是因為有2,806億的新增預算這去年是沒有的如果扣掉這些的話預算沒有超過太多跟去年是一樣的再經過一兩千億的刪減我們今年的預算就會比去年實質上低可是剛才我跟你講一定有剛才我們說過"},{"start":7197.287,"end":7215.491,"text":"胡坤祺總召他把所有各部會 增內的預算是有的喔但是你現在自愛然行就是新增預算的部分嘛因為各部會都有新增預算在裡面那我就感覺到很奇怪啦我就感覺到很奇怪啊為什麼在政黨協商的時候"},{"start":7215.891,"end":7236.088,"text":"以我個人所了解 民意代表我也當了很久三億算是每一個民意代表的值錢我們是不可以給億算 但是可以三億算至於幅度多高 那這個就是要透過政黨協商的當中把理由 把困難講出來"},{"start":7237.989,"end":7260.062,"text":"這問題就會解決啊但這次通山並沒有協商而是表決啊是嘛 那為什麼不協商嘛韓院長 講快一點我雖然不是黨裡面幹部那你們有沒有協商嘛朝野協商好了之後 行政院才參與最後怎麼會協商好我跟你講 一定 我不要跟你爭論你把那個協商紀錄 我拜託我們副院長"},{"start":7260.982,"end":7290.22,"text":"拿出這些協商結論或者協商的經過讓你去看一看所以你不要只有道聽途說要去親眼目睹議長你是中華民國的行政議長最高前列機構所有預算所有部會的預算是由你來由你來做溝通跟說明好議長這就我給你謝謝委員的建議那委員是不是同意復議之後我們重新協商"},{"start":7291.539,"end":7299.302,"text":"我個人當然是贊成啊所以我後面就很簡單但是這些東西是我個人的看法我認為我還要給你一個良心的建議阿扁總統講的話你也認識嘛"},{"start":7310.782,"end":7333.18,"text":"不一定全部聽他的 可是他講的話有時候是有價值感的所以我要建議包容不同意見 不要對抗 不要對立這個我想你同意吧 同意還有天下之大不能獨佔 應由分享燕燕鄉霸 也就是霸民 何時了"},{"start":7334.861,"end":7353.43,"text":"我跟你講他講的很有理由有些言論我還是不太贊同他可是這一次他講這些話我認為是當今行政院跟立法院應該如何去化解非常好的建言所以我良心建議卓院長你應該要參考跟賴總統報告"},{"start":7356.491,"end":7371.541,"text":"因為我擔心的就是賴總統以前在台南市長的時候我最擔心的就是因為他也跟議會處不好所以這個部分 左院長你要用一點心你是要為台灣人民來做事"},{"start":7372.341,"end":7399.544,"text":"不是只有服務一個賴總統那賴總統有時候給他下錢不能上打或許老百姓的心聲有些是真的沒有辦法下錢上打產生這種誤解都還來得及啊你們執政只有一年啊雖然你們民進黨已經執政八年快要九年的但是亡羊補牢還是有機會啊所以要改變策略啦"},{"start":7400.765,"end":7428.561,"text":"我是非常理性的人我就覺得我們為什麼一定要去某個在野黨為什麼不好好坐下來談這些是非常重要不是每一樣東西雖然法定有授權你自愛然行或者釋憲的這種種之權利但是說實在啦富裕富到最後還是一個結論嘛要解決問題不是嗎所以一定"},{"start":7429.582,"end":7452.776,"text":"今天當然我給你講話時間比較少但是我是以重心長在這裡我還是要建議院長協商才能前進對抗注定要致死俄國所以我要特別給院長一個建議溝通協商追加預算"},{"start":7453.851,"end":7479.77,"text":"了解 凍結 這等等都是啊你們現在就很簡單 欸凍結就是三億算不對啦 不對啦凍結當然你如果說在大會 那凍結很多啊有委員會就可以解凍的啊大會解凍 這兩者之中雖然大會解凍有所困難但是有很多事情是要靠溝通的欸"},{"start":7480.831,"end":7500.033,"text":"是要靠溝通 所以我要坦白跟院長講其實我每次在看政黨協商過去解凍最後一筆 從98年到113年超過九成都是在11月跟12月那你就沒有政黨協商 我跟你講"},{"start":7502.075,"end":7515.847,"text":"委員會你去看看所有部長在這裡委員會在審查預算根本是理性有時候部長談出他的苦衷在哪邊最後放的機會都很大以我個人來講"},{"start":7517.168,"end":7531.837,"text":"我們交通委員會部長在這裡我們有刪到什麼預算沒有啊他自愛然行有困難他講出來15個委員大家都贊成不分黨派啊我管你什麼民進黨管你什麼國民黨大家都"},{"start":7533.217,"end":7553.286,"text":"認為部長講的自愛燃省真正需要的是在這裡那我就感覺到很奇怪所有的問題為什麼沒有辦法解決會製造混亂因為我們也不知道最後會有一個通案刪減全部指向特定機關這個也要怪不怪主計長過去歷屆來講本來就是如何調整如何調整貴黨提出的那個通案刪減裡面的項目特定機關特定項目那個是可以調的"},{"start":7561.67,"end":7565.171,"text":"人家大會都講得很清楚你們主計處又不跟立法院"},{"start":7592.147,"end":7601.484,"text":"好,謝謝林委員,謝謝卓院長報告全院委員會休息十分鐘休息之後繼續進行詢問,現在休息"},{"start":8272.998,"end":8274.4,"text":"報告全院委員會現在繼續開會,請賴委員瑞榮詢問好,謝謝主席,請卓院長請卓院長備詢"},{"start":8298.208,"end":8324.385,"text":"其實我首先還是要先講一下其實剛剛聽了前面幾個委員的質詢我感到非常的遺憾我看到了副會計委員他跟其實三位聯合質詢用了45分鐘結果看到幾乎是他一個人獨用的45分鐘把兩位女性委員幾乎當陪襯一樣我覺得這真的是很不尊重特別是在剛過三八國際婦女節其實大家都對女性非常的尊重"},{"start":8324.926,"end":8337.833,"text":"我們也出過女總統也有很優秀的一些女性的這個人員的時候那結果在執行台上三位的聯合如果你這樣的話那你又何必請三位兩位陪襯在你旁邊我覺得對"},{"start":8339.863,"end":8366.373,"text":"來說又再次凸顯出來這種父權思想非常非常不恰當你可以多用一點點時間大家可以接受你幾乎是兩位幾乎完全是沒用我認為這個真的是大走回頭路讓大家非常的失望這個我想也趁這個機會也再次的提出來那裡面當然我看到了聽到我也非常遺憾看到副委員還拍桌甚至於還講所謂的說謊還講可恥"},{"start":8368.794,"end":8392.483,"text":"這個在國會議場上公然說人家說謊公然的說可恥這是很嚴重的問題我認為應該提出確切的那如果沒有的話這個是非常不恰當的我不知道院長親自面對這樣的事情啊你的看法是怎麼樣我一直從520之後第一天在這個會議場裡面我就說朝野希望和解共生那我一向如此那剛剛"},{"start":8393.632,"end":8421.756,"text":"那一段質詢最後我也跟兩位委員旁邊兩位委員翁委員跟李委員說如果他們今天沒有機會講的話有任何的問題我們都可以談我也覺得對他們兩位非常不好意思但是誠如委員所說的在議事廳上尤其把所有的官員請上來那麼一句話兩句話都說你說謊而且我覺得施政的能力不是在考那種記憶力數字當然數字記住很重要"},{"start":8422.383,"end":8430.284,"text":"但不是用一個數字就表示說你是說謊你不說謊這樣的邏輯太過於簡單也太過於針對性我希望大家能夠理性的面對"},{"start":8430.968,"end":8455.163,"text":"我覺得行政立法之間還是要相互有基本的尊重雖然來到這邊被選 但我覺得基本尊重你是用理去說服人 你是用你的道理去讓整個行政機關願意改變思維 那這個才是一個好的做法那如果明明是無理的 明明是不對的 硬要拗 硬用罵 硬用羞辱的方式要去逼行政機關妥協讓步 怎麼讓步國家怎麼退步 這怎麼能做 所以我覺得"},{"start":8456.223,"end":8477.197,"text":"國會的亂象也是現在大罷免的一個主要原因去年一整年我親自在現場我從來沒有看過我在國會將近十年的時間我從來沒有看過這麼荒腔走板的一個國會不管是在這個迴憲亂政甚至於明明99.9%的法律學者都要說你違憲結果實役不聽包括"},{"start":8477.737,"end":8493.808,"text":"所有的這些的預算的審查大家要求你好好的來討論尊重委員會的討論然後要不然你至少在草野協商聽你行政機關的意見完全不聽利用半個小時內送出三份四份的修正再修正更正版送出來連立委都不知道要表決什麼這樣處理這樣的總預算怎麼不會有問題這樣的總預算國家怎麼來執行"},{"start":8498.311,"end":8527.108,"text":"所以我認為我堅決的支持行政院的復議啦因為你不復議的話我也不知道你要怎麼執行光那個差額就600多億這怎麼執行而且我認為這個也是荒腔走板哪有立法院的預決你只在預決而已你本來就不能夠有任何增加預算或調整預算的權利的你怎麼可以刪掉一個數額叫行政院自行去調整那這樣的話整個國家怎麼運作所以我認為裡面有提到非常多不管是數字對不攏包括"},{"start":8528.489,"end":8548.808,"text":"刪減數額超過了明明只有1.1億刪到了1.4億那你要講出一番道理出來不然這是國家的恥辱一個立法院竟然刪成這樣子你好歹刪出一個道理讓大家覺得你是一個懂數字有道理的立法院那這樣子講當然大家無法接受包括你的業務費整個監察院把他96.5的業務費全部給"},{"start":8551.93,"end":8572.716,"text":"刪除掉了那你要監察院立法院跟監察院在憲政上還是一個對等的關係你這樣子用這樣的方式這人民怎麼接受你要不你就修憲嘛你如果認為要把他修憲你又不提出修憲把監察院給廢掉你用這樣的方式癱瘓掉監察院這怎麼能夠運作包括行政院被刪減了45%的業務費怎麼運作甚至於總統府被凍結了61%的一個費用"},{"start":8578.477,"end":8602.516,"text":"這都很多的涉及到國家的這個包括外國元首來到台灣做很多的相關的應對的所以我覺得這些亂山亂洞才是導致到這個台灣亂象才知道台灣的整個人民的不安的最主要的原因才是也是導致現在行政院必須提出復議的原因然後我們真的期盼這個藍白能夠懸崖勒馬然後最後一關的時候能夠認錯改過能夠"},{"start":8605.318,"end":8634.174,"text":"來接受這樣的復議案回到立法院內重新審議該刪的當然刪啊立法院從來哪有不能刪一算當然可以刪一算但是不是亂刪亂砍讓行政機關無法運作讓其他司院無法運作這個就是荒腔走板我們講的是這個道理嗎院長同意這樣的看法嗎非常感謝委員兩點跟委員報告我1999年來到立法院也待了四五年從來沒有遇到過這樣的刪減法不論我面對的是國民黨的行政院長是民進黨的行政院長"},{"start":8635.545,"end":8658.405,"text":"預算到最後會非常嚴謹的寫出每一個數字那就是最終數字三讀的時候也只能修改標點符號連數字也不得得這才是預算的真正意義連到三讀的通過的時候還整個亂的整個數字全是亂的外交部等七個部會這次都是三減數超出我們的預算數我只其中的"},{"start":8659.105,"end":8679.322,"text":"司法院好了司法院的派員出國計畫跟交通運輸設備合計超過預算數三減之後超過預算數391萬那叫司法院怎麼辦那不只喔有外交部有監察院有行政院本部有司法院有內政部國土署有農業部也有中選會七個部會單位"},{"start":8681.889,"end":8708.317,"text":"三減之後超過預算數那這樣我們怎麼去調整呢我們能夠把它說減回來嗎還是自己把它補上來都不行所以通過複製重新審議是最好的一個方式在我認為也是唯一解救的方法院長如果照這樣的方式如果這樣的荒腔走板的甚至於讓癱瘓掉整個政府的運作的你都行政部提複製的話那我想這是崑崙國家崑崙這無法交代"},{"start":8708.797,"end":8733.568,"text":"而且我也認為復議是最好的解方藍白很多立委都知道自己 坦白講他們知道自己錯了啦那錯了最好的方法就是回到復議完接受之後回到立法院重新再來處理這也是最快的方法嘛你其實犯了錯接下來要求還要再提追加預算要求趕快解凍追加預算的程序走得相當的漫長嘛還有解凍的時間也很漫長很多時間拖到了下半年去等同整個預算就無法運作了"},{"start":8734.568,"end":8757.851,"text":"台灣的經濟力就會受到影響世界各國要來台灣投資怎麼來看所以我認為這些都不是最好的方法我支持行政院的復一案應該要立法院要來同意回到立法院合理理性的討論我想這是人民的期待也是國家之福啦好 再來我請教一下最近以美恨川這件事情其實在台灣是在發酵的"},{"start":8758.792,"end":8784.897,"text":"那中國其實統戰部石泰鋒很清楚的要求要去做這樣的因為這個東西包括以美論就是川普盡量出賣台灣包括棄台論台積電要變美積電包括失敗論你面對中國台灣必定失敗這個顯然就是一個認知作戰顯然就是一個很刻意的一個操作院長怎麼來看待現在中國操作的這些以美論棄台論跟失敗論這四個字"},{"start":8787.898,"end":8815.829,"text":"也是從中共統戰部所說出來的話那如果我們國內也用這四個字來國內散播甚至來做這樣國會殿堂上的不當的對話那就是跟他們唱和在一起不足為奇跟我們競爭的無論他有沒有多深的敵意或者是競爭的對手當他的意見跟我們相鎖的時候國人應該站在我們一起一起來提升我們自己的防衛能力所以以美"},{"start":8817.148,"end":8838.653,"text":"台灣跟美國在內的所有民主有門國家都是我們認為都應該成為可信賴的盟友互相在各方面多做很多的交流川普總統是美國國人依照民主程序選出來的總統好不好美國國內國民會自有評斷容不許我們在這裡戳山倒石"},{"start":8839.153,"end":8856.871,"text":"院長我請教就我所知道賴總統跟卓院長幾乎都是緊盯著川普的所有的言行在盯著一直在注意他們甚至於包括院長先回答是不是這樣我們在美國大選前就已經展開了分析選後我們立刻組成了"},{"start":8858.031,"end":8883.21,"text":"經貿外交工作小組也有台美的經貿的專案這都是在因應所有的相關的包括關稅政策等等那我們一步一步的這個之後我們又跟國內的產業界高科技業特別的集體的中小企業以及其他的一些這個垂直鏈的工業廠商我們都做了很多的談話經濟部也做我個人也做副院長也做國發業會會也做我們想做的就是讓產業界了解政府跟大家站在一起"},{"start":8883.57,"end":8901.807,"text":"一定以跟流台灣 讓台灣保持領先最優先我知道是包括像台積電半導體院長包括總統院院長也都跟他們保持密切的溝通嘛整個掌握他們的一些狀況嘛 是嗎是的所以現在開始刻意操作所謂的台積電變成美積電一直在操作這件事情這個背後的用意是什麼"},{"start":8902.507,"end":8928.179,"text":"台積電在台灣立足台灣根基最強在台灣但是它已經不是台灣台積電它已經是世界的台積電它走向了全世界當它跟美國有這麼好的一個互動的時候其實也是台灣國力的一個延伸國力更加加強而且它的訂單已經滿到了後年所以我們認為這個時間點刻意去操作美積電它的用意何在院長台積電這個世界性的大公司會在台灣繼續還要連續設廠11個廠"},{"start":8931.792,"end":8957.824,"text":"在高雄對高雄就有五個廠對各地現在設計區有11個廠那照他的年限會一直推動下去表示台灣還是他的生產的主要的基地而且他的研發中心絕對以台灣為最重要為核心至於在外國的設廠都應該在這個前提底下不會破壞台灣領先的地位技術領先的地位也不會影響台灣"},{"start":8958.826,"end":8971.317,"text":"生產鏈關鍵的地位就台灣一定會保持領先而且台灣的產業絕對不會外移空洞化讓國人發生任何的質疑保障跟留台灣是整個全球佈局裡面最核心思想之一"},{"start":8971.658,"end":8982.425,"text":"所以我們看到了魏哲佳包括你看這個圖片來看來有什麼樣的機會的時候是魏哲佳在那邊講話川普站在旁邊包括我們魏哲佳在講話賴總統也站在旁邊這是看到就是台灣確實走向了國際而且台灣確實讓國際我們的產業讓國際感到驕傲也重視我們應該更正視這樣一個正向的力量"},{"start":8991.63,"end":9020.958,"text":"怎麼會這個時候還配合著中共在操作所有的以美論來分化台灣跟美國關係來試圖來影響你台灣的施政來試圖影響你台灣的民心覺得你台灣已經這個空洞化了產業被人家拉走了怎麼還會有內應者不斷在操作這件事情我覺得這個非常的惡劣院長同意這樣的看法嗎我們任何的國家發展的策略長遠性的規劃是以國家利益為主體但是在過程當中跟我們的競爭對手尤其跟我們有比較敵意的"},{"start":9021.577,"end":9044.251,"text":"這個的國家也好我們不是要讓他暴怒了但他一旦暴怒之後我們更應該冷靜下來思考我們的方向是否正確而且重要是要跟人民說明清楚政府這種走向是要整個國家往進步的方向走跟世界接軌所以我在這一次的施政報告我就是用團結大台灣佈局全球全世界這樣的方向來訴求跟委員一家的支持"},{"start":9044.651,"end":9059.43,"text":"院長 刪減總預算還有一個影響也是相當重大的但各方面都很重大那其中一項是刪減到了國防預算刪了84億 凍結了900億的部分這個也嚴重的影響到我們的國家安全也影響到了台美的關係"},{"start":9060.191,"end":9085.223,"text":"就是說美國也認為說如果你連台灣面對中共這麼強力的威脅整天文攻武嚇你自己都不願意保衛你自己的國家不願意來加強你的國防支出的時候那為什麼美國其他的國家要來幫忙你呢這也是其他的不管是從蘇利文或者是金恩或者是這個柯博奇等等的每個都在挑戰台灣也就是說國民黨在刪減這個國防預算是在玩一個危險的遊戲"},{"start":9086.96,"end":9104.882,"text":"院長同意這樣的看法嗎很遺憾我們確實在國內發生這一段包括潛艦包括國防部的經費在業務費會大量的凍結當台灣的周遭經常受到中共的間接侵擾的時候我們希望的是國防力量的增強"},{"start":9105.956,"end":9132.705,"text":"對方看到的是我們沒有防衛自己的能力跟準備在兩鄉底下底下我們應該選擇是後前者讓我們力量增強如果我們的這個選擇沒有辦法達成讓我們的勇盟看到我們替我們擔心我覺得這個不是干涉我們的內政是關心到整個區域的和平穩定沒有辦法維持台灣能不能負起這樣的責任我們更應該向全世界清楚的表達一個訊息我們有決心有能力有準備來"},{"start":9134.656,"end":9161.612,"text":"因應這樣的區域和平穩定的責任所以強化國防才是唯一我們向全世界負責任的態度我們的國防都是在保護我們自己的安全我們不會去挑釁別人但是我們要保衛我們自己的安全唯有我們有保衛我們自己的能力的時候敵人才不會輕易的做出錯誤的判斷來做出這個清洗戰端而盟友 民主盟友也才能夠知道你的決心而願意給予更多的支持而這些的決心跟支持都會保衛台灣的和平"},{"start":9162.032,"end":9181.955,"text":"這都對台灣非常重要那我不懂這件事情其實在台灣內部應該是相當團結一致對外的特別這幾年我們經濟狀況也相當的不錯的時候支持國家的國防預算是一個基本的道理就竟然刪減了甚至於凍結凍結了900億之後你如果在下半年才解凍的話這些預算形成等於是完全無法運用"},{"start":9182.375,"end":9198.812,"text":"更何況的是這些凍結或這些刪減在美國或在全世界看來的時候是顯然他懷疑你內部第一個你到底有沒有防衛你自我的一個決心第二個你內部是不是已經被滲透了你已經被分化了他們也在擔心這些問題院長或部長怎麼看"},{"start":9209.879,"end":9219.388,"text":"我們審查時間到了"},{"start":9243.921,"end":9243.941,"text":"好,謝謝"},{"start":9268.103,"end":9290.691,"text":"那個部長你要不要用書面答覆好不好?因為剛才這段時間沒有錄音啦部長你用書面答覆給賴委員好,謝謝賴委員,謝謝卓院長下一位請王定宇委員詢問"},{"start":9305.472,"end":9311.519,"text":"好,謝謝副院長,麻煩我們院長還有國防部長好,請左院長還有國防部長,備詢謝謝王委員,王委員好,我想這一次"},{"start":9325.27,"end":9351.779,"text":"立法院在總預算這樣子的處理方式是史無前例我們在場不分任何政黨我們從來沒有看到總預算審完到一個多月總預算審訊報告書寫不出來寫出來的竟然沒有數字然後對國家來講我們台灣每一個人都能夠在這一次藍白合作癱瘓政府運作當中找到自己受害的位置這個是"},{"start":9353.251,"end":9368.036,"text":"坦白講這不是黨派的問題這已經是國家遇到的困境那本席今天就國防預算的部分他的傷害跟影響來就教於兩位那我們看一下在國防預算簡列的部分"},{"start":9369.702,"end":9385.778,"text":"部長我們被檢列了84億4千多萬總共有15個案子你可不可以概述一下這些檢列案對我們國防運作上還有對盟友之間有沒有產生什麼樣的影響我想"},{"start":9386.977,"end":9401.731,"text":"我舉其中最關鍵的就是說因為他現在過去的這個統三之後他都可以我這邊有個表啦有一個科目自己可以調整那現在最重要的就是他現在有不得留用"},{"start":9402.489,"end":9425.617,"text":"那這個不得留用其中有一個國外旅費跟出國教育訓練費用3減了15%也就是2.4億元這樣子的一個弧度它會影響到我們的新式武器裝備換裝所需要的我是覺得我們可以用讓民眾了解的狀況我們公務預算我們不含基金不含每年的特別預算的分攤我們編列了4760億"},{"start":9429.368,"end":9452.335,"text":"減劣的部分軍事裝備及設施預算減劣51億3%這個會影響到我們武器系統建軍的規劃基建裝甲車等零附件的籌補這時候老舊裝備的換裝更新會受這個影響我們的軍人的步槍是不是在這裡面新式步槍"},{"start":9453.757,"end":9472.397,"text":"是,我想這個部分我們事實上在之前提出給行政院就已經提出過了就如委員所講的,確實會無法滿足老舊裝備更新態度跟裝備的違法那這些零附件的籌補是相當的重要另外一般事務費跟水電費,3減了16.7億"},{"start":9477.142,"end":9500.056,"text":"這個對於不管是戰備訓練基本維持會有影響另外我們的戰備工程國外差旅費像國外差旅費整個三減掉兩億砍掉了15%這個影響到我們到國外的交流跟接裝我們從去年開始每年兩個聯兵營到美國受訓我們F16V開始要進行接裝部長可不可以就這個項目有關這一個"},{"start":9502.157,"end":9527.04,"text":"出國的費用被減劣了兩億造成的傷害跟影響對我覺得最主要就是說因為有很多在野黨的委員一直說他這個刪的弧度沒有很大但是問題是除了剛剛院長報告有對很多機關有針對性的一個刪減之外就這個部分呢他最重要他又加了四個字就是不得留用也就是說"},{"start":9527.93,"end":9538.1,"text":"他本身你沒辦法去我沒有辦法拿自行調整科目所以這樣子的話整個金額是高達2.4億元他這個高達2.4億元之後呢"},{"start":9542.689,"end":9561.049,"text":"剛剛已經提到了新式的武器我們本來就一定要到美國去接裝訓練這個會有影響更重要的是我們赴國外協訓所需要的金額我們會有一定的要求我們現在一定要逐漸達到一定的規模跟涉及所需要的訓練這個影響很大"},{"start":9564.571,"end":9593.962,"text":"我們不管海馬士我們要派人去受訓F16V新的相關的裝備要派人去受訓我們的聯兵營去受訓這個費用砍掉了還不讓你留用也就是說呢沒有就是沒有啦那相對的盟友得到的訊息是你連接裝換裝訓練各方面你的錢都砍掉如果作為你的朋友我還要來幫你的忙台灣的事就是人家的事就台灣自己當作沒事"},{"start":9595.411,"end":9606.36,"text":"這樣會出事喔我可能要跑快一點因為時間的關係剛才是三減的部分喔我們再看一下凍結的部分4760億的國防公務預算凍結有279案合計凍結899億4千萬元這大概史上最高了啦我們來看細項這個往前走那這一個"},{"start":9624.06,"end":9641.825,"text":"預算的凍結裡面我特別注意到有一個是有關我們的油料我們的去彈藥的籌貨凍結了30%嘛凍結了30%所以這個部分是不是請部長或院長說明清楚就是說他看起來好像是業務費幫你凍結了30%"},{"start":9644.326,"end":9664.36,"text":"我們現在國防部的運作是等到這70%用完了我們最後剩三個月再來解凍還是從現在開始我們就只能動之70%是不是部長請說明一下他應該有一個條件就是說要到達一定的我們的解凍條件才可以"},{"start":9666.192,"end":9695.634,"text":"那另外就是說因為這個部分會涉及到這個整個作業為止就我們的零護艦各式彈藥訓練經費還有軍事投資包括陸軍的仁西式短程的防空飛彈高效能反彈藥飛彈攻擊的無人機海軍的輕型代行型巡防艦第二階段的原型艦的籌建康定級的系統的性能的升級還有空軍的新式高焦機還有艾二性能我們拉法葉的升級也在這裡還有採購艾三還有高高空無人機等等"},{"start":9696.094,"end":9707.873,"text":"那這些主要的問題是在過去都是委員會書面報告後就可以解凍那他現在百分之三十的業務費的部分是要到院會做報告之後我請教院長這個所謂院會"},{"start":9711.958,"end":9735.288,"text":"這個我只有凍結而已嘛你不夠的拿來嘛我們院會在解凍嘛我們如果在立法院代表院會一年開幾次這個解凍的困難度是不是請院長說明一下這次的凍結的金額雖然大院是沒有宣布我們自己把它調算出來整個決議案過程我們是算成1300多億啦但是其中很多到院會那我想金額是比以前多程序是比以前難"},{"start":9739.141,"end":9765.177,"text":"那如果都到院會來解凍的話那我剛剛已經報告過了過去98年到113年90%的案子最後一件的解凍案都在11月或12月我想國家容不得這樣的一個拖延所以我有一句話 刪多少國家的建設就減多少解凍慢多久國家的發展就慢多久其實到11月解凍這預算等於沒有了啦你知道"},{"start":9768.257,"end":9780.522,"text":"共軍燒了我們的ADIZ我們的空軍飛行員跑到頭五分鐘待命拉上去之後還要準備第二波就油料凍結30%彈藥凍結30%怎麼會這樣對自己國家的軍人呢中國增加軍費到八兆台幣"},{"start":9788.547,"end":9802.329,"text":"今年度他們還增加7.2%就我們自己把30%彈藥 油料以及相關的船艦各方面都把它凍結起來而且解凍的條件如此之嚴苛我們再看一個例子下一個"},{"start":9804.417,"end":9830.423,"text":"像民雄 我就不知道自己人哪裡得罪了藍白 我也不知道無人機的發展對我們的經貿產業鼓勵人剛從美國述職回來他去川普 他不用回去喔他是不用回華府報到卻被川普政府叫回去去了解美國政府現在最新對台政策回到台灣裡面有一項希望建立非紅無人機供應鏈結果我們無人機的園區被凍結50%"},{"start":9835.426,"end":9851.174,"text":"這個在籌備階層給他凍結另外還有一個案子 下一個像我們相關的零附件保修凍結10%那個顧部長我們的保修跟零附件其實憑原來的預算就不太夠了現在要凍結10%對軍中產生什麼影響對 這個凍結10%高達76.4億元這個非常不利 76億 76億點4億元這個金額"},{"start":9863.902,"end":9885.08,"text":"很明顯的就是說我們各型的機艦、戰甲、炮車等主要裝備都要進行維保跟妥善不然的話會影響整個部隊的戰演性任務你這個零附件裡面其實還包含了我們現在要提升國軍因為每一個軍人弟兄姊妹都是我們所珍惜的他的抗彈板在這裡面"},{"start":9886.28,"end":9899.368,"text":"你也把它弄掉10%那這抗彈板面對共軍換磚6.8厘米的我們也在提升防護力所以這些東西是可以討論的需不需要該怎麼做現在沒有就把你通通凍起來我們再看下一個潛艦部長你好好說明一下我們的海昆號潛艦後續艦的籌劃的20億被凍結50%"},{"start":9912.854,"end":9940.305,"text":"這一個我們潛艦要能夠造成功國外願意冒著中共制裁經濟制裁的風險提供相關的裝備跟技術協助這是很重要的我們自己國內的廠商的合作意願這是重要的我們過去幾年來在台船跟海軍訓練的專業人才能夠留下來這是重要的這個凍結50%就部長了解它產生什麼樣的負面影響跟委員報告"},{"start":9942.687,"end":9955.819,"text":"這個潛艦預算主要是我們九月才能夠完成海上的測試那如果完成海上測試之後按照我之前承諾就是說等海上測試以後我們就凍職可是他現在凍結之後要經過院會的專報"},{"start":9959.619,"end":9982.522,"text":"院會的專報那如果沒有辦法排入院會的專報的話他就沒有辦法順利解凍那後續建的計畫的節點包括這個裝備合約會的繳付或者是國外政府的輸出許可降低廠商的合作意願流失這個一些造建的專業人才等等就會衝擊到後續建的一個建造他產生的影響"},{"start":9984.333,"end":10003.762,"text":"有一個是往後延取得時間往後延還有一種可能性如果這些輸出許可沒有了搞不好後續間就沒有了有沒有這個風險如果我們沒有辦法順利解凍的話確實會有因為我們這個整個潛艦的這個水下的海"},{"start":10004.852,"end":10019.192,"text":"SAT的測試是要到下半年那下半年如果過了那我們希望馬上就順利解凍的話那當然就可以支應那這個這一個國外的廠商他會看到這樣子的一個解凍"},{"start":10019.889,"end":10020.049,"text":"台灣遇到的威脅"},{"start":10041.889,"end":10065.565,"text":"別人何必人家犯不著為了你冒風險如果你自己都不確定那我們不是說預算不該監督你就把它通過之後帶SAT通過我們來處理現在又綁定在院會其實這困難度相當高我有一個總的統計數字那個各家算法不一樣但根據剛才我們國防部的公務預算"},{"start":10066.749,"end":10073.854,"text":"編了4760億 簡列84億 凍結899億加起來的話 三家凍的比例高達20.67%這也就是為什麼美國軍事委員會在審查COBI也就是美國負責政策的副部長的聽證會"},{"start":10088.55,"end":10099.811,"text":"不管是蘇利文或者其他的參議員他提出的關係而且他們這次點得很清楚甚至包含帕廷吉爾 博明來到立法院拜會的時候"},{"start":10100.899,"end":10124.307,"text":"他這個是有授權說可以說出來的他也在關心說不要再講你動多少撿多少當你做了動作把台灣國家安全預算往下一壓釋放給在華府川普的新任官員只有得到一個印象你台灣根本不重視自己的安全你都不重視我為什麼對你的關心要超過你自己甚至於不排除有些人把他壓低"},{"start":10126.411,"end":10153.194,"text":"是樂見於台灣人民被北京所管理這是很嚴重的訊號當時像Pottinger也好或者Sullivan也好他用的是emergency他說這是一個緊急狀態台灣各界必須重視而Sullivan在聽證會的時候還特別說台灣有人看到他這一段聽證請轉述不要再玩這種危險的遊戲所以我最後這個問題要請教那個院長"},{"start":10154.656,"end":10176.472,"text":"以現在總預算這樣遇到的狀況追加啊解凍啊這樣就可以改革了你做院長的支持現在藍白提出的解決方案能解決這問題嗎如果真的誠心誠意讓國家按部就班的走向一個發展而且跟世界接軌的路就盡快的能夠讓預算如數的如期的執行"},{"start":10177.83,"end":10205.421,"text":"追加或是用其他的方式都耗費時日如果能夠通過附議案重新協商再一次我想很短時間就可以了你都知道應該要追加了你為什麼不把原始預算處理好嘛是你都講要追加了你就知道這有算有問題啊那這不是面子問題這國家跟人民的利益問題你都認為說你就辦追加嘛我幫你追加那你原始預算我們透過附議好好把它處理也就是"},{"start":10207.422,"end":10222.53,"text":"複製優關人民福祉我真的請立法院不分藍綠白的同事讓複製通過,讓我們把預算弄好來,讓國家恢復正軌尤其在國家安全這個事情上不能慢,慢的受害的是全民我相信院長應該支持這樣子謝謝王委員,謝謝卓院長"},{"start":10232.83,"end":10235.611,"text":"再為請徐欣穎委員詢問謝謝會議主席江副院長本席有請卓院長請卓院長備詢"},{"start":10266.178,"end":10294.288,"text":"學文好院長很遺憾在復議案碰面您擔任行政院長還不滿一年還不到十個月對不到十個月但是您已經是史上提出復議案最多復議案最密集的行政院長而且也是第一位就預算案提出復議案的行政院長"},{"start":10295.663,"end":10324.154,"text":"院長您擔任過兩屆的立法委員過去也審核過預算現在擔任行政院長您也編列預算提出預算案所以我相信您應該很了解在民主國家的國會跟行政單位就預算案的審查過程這個過程中的謀和溝通這個是民主的常態您應該認同吧"},{"start":10327.157,"end":10340.262,"text":"所以有時候民眾很期待的公共政策跟立法委員反映但是行政機關可能這個政策失當或是行政效率不彰那立法委員呢"},{"start":10341.002,"end":10364.716,"text":"看到行政機關沒有很快速啟動希望他快馬加鞭的進行所以立法委員用比較霹靂雷霆的預算提議方式來催促行政機關加快動作但是呢提議不等於決議因為在這個過程中有雙方的溝通打磨的過程可是現在呢很多這個為了"},{"start":10367.557,"end":10392.044,"text":"特殊的政黨惡鬥或者是各種甚至為了罷免故意扭曲預算的提議這個是很不道德的像本席看到我們台灣性暴力犯罪始終居高不下這個犯罪案件跟被害人人數一直攀升我們很多的狼師跟很多的狼教練一直沒辦法杜絕所以本席"},{"start":10393.245,"end":10399.697,"text":"對於行政院信憑處的預算本來提議刪除但是信憑處來溝通之後"},{"start":10401.601,"end":10428.439,"text":"那他也了解本席的代表民眾的期待所以他們也承諾要做所以我們最後我們只刪減了這個比去年新增的預算同時也希望行政院能夠盡快來做那有做我們就可以解凍那本席很開心的看到在前幾天3月6號我們行政院性評處終於提出了"},{"start":10432.302,"end":10456.58,"text":"所以這個就是很好的一個例子所以我們森檢 凍結其實為的是什麼就是大家為了這個台灣 為了民眾民眾的安全最重要這點你應該認同吧是的 非常謝謝委員那是因為委員專業 理性 好溝通 能理解不是每個委員都像委員這個樣子如果每個委員都像委員這樣子今天這場場景不會發生沒有 那接下來呢 本席也"},{"start":10458.021,"end":10474.448,"text":"這個要再舉一個例就是像我們的詐騙本席在總諮詢也詢問過詐騙案民眾就是希望他不小心被詐騙他的錢可以趕快拿回來所以我們的行政單位目前對於台灣被詐騙的民眾錢可以拿回來的"},{"start":10475.66,"end":10497.341,"text":"案例不多可是被騙的這個數字一直攀升所以我們為了讓相關單位能夠加速各種立法還有各種措施所以我們也做了一些凍結那只要行政單位好好的做我們這個絕對解凍絕對解凍可以盡快排案這個都沒問題所以這一塊我們也希望行政單位可以了解"},{"start":10498.986,"end":10514.674,"text":"接下來本席要就整個預算案 您今天的複議案的很多理由本席要特別提出來第一個 行政院的複議案說三檢總數未宣讀 審查後稅出總數有爭議"},{"start":10519.497,"end":10532.143,"text":"那我們很好奇的是我們看到我們三讀的時候主席有明確的宣告而且在114年1月21日立法院本院114卷第19期公報第129頁明確記載了記載了這個整個稅出部分總預算3兆1324億6890萬9000元"},{"start":10546.75,"end":10552.552,"text":"然後委員會三檢數是67億3763萬元加上院會的三檢數1068億6162萬9千元最後再加上通案統三的數不低於939億7500萬元所以合計這整個三檢數是2075億7425萬9千元"},{"start":10576.516,"end":10590.545,"text":"那這個部分已經經過三讀宣告而且公報上也有明白的寫所以怎麼會說沒有確定的數字或總數送到行政院的文子裡面沒有總數的這個東西我們三讀宣告而且這個公報都明確記載再來"},{"start":10598.59,"end":10613.829,"text":"第一個剛剛本席已經講這個審查結論也許執政黨不滿意但是不能說沒有明確的總數那剛剛院長你說送來行政院的沒有數字可是在你們今天復議案的文字裡面第二大項"},{"start":10614.75,"end":10642.529,"text":"你內容就寫了啊114年度總預算案三減數2076億餘元所以你們還是知道總數的嘛第一個減法剛剛有講你減法你自然會減嘛這每個數字很清楚所以你們一定會知道總數再來你自己的復議案也特別有提到你都提到了三減總數了所以其實是有數字的這個是立法院的宣讀數"},{"start":10643.69,"end":10652.857,"text":"這我認為它不是三讀數因為三讀沒有這個數字是宣讀數宣讀數裡面有爭議939日怎麼產生有爭議因為我們的會議主席宣告然後整個的公報也都有明確的記載那再來再來"},{"start":10663.084,"end":10680.656,"text":"主計總署計算僅三減了1439億餘元附議案內容沒有具體說明這個如何計算來的這個部分我不需要您現在回答我們希望會後主計總署看看是不是可以回覆給我們你們怎麼計算出三減是1439億餘元那因為時間關係這個部分本席在這邊特別提出來"},{"start":10688.134,"end":10717.609,"text":"那再來就是在這個立法院審查預算過程中的通案是哪些我相信您很清楚通案的科目有大陸地區的旅費國外旅費國內旅費水電費特別費房屋建築養護費等等委辦費一般事務費所以這些科目的性質院長您應該也很了解它的性質是什麼它的性質就是一些行政管理的成本概念嗎是的對好院長您認同所以"},{"start":10718.609,"end":10737.959,"text":"這些三減數怎麼會有違權利分利原則因為權利分利原則是說我要你這個單位的錢去補那個單位沒有我們這個三減數沒有要你挖東牆補西牆我們要的是四個字準結支出我們要的是成本概念"},{"start":10738.619,"end":10755.715,"text":"所以跟我們副議案所講的整體資源配置還有施政計畫內容影響行政權的行使其實並不抵觸但是報告委員這個通案我們算出來依照每個通案的項目後面的比例算出來只有能刪減303億接著接著我們"},{"start":10760.78,"end":10776.049,"text":"副議案裡面還特別講到說這個會妨礙行政權的行使這個真的太危言聳聽因為您剛剛講到這個通案刪除的部分要自行調整636億餘元"},{"start":10778.51,"end":10803.841,"text":"那院長您過去擔任過立委您應該知道我們的預算從委員會後來到黨團院會對不對在二讀會之前有所謂的協商但您看看剛剛不管您答覆民進黨的委員或是民進黨委員都一直在抨擊這史上這個預算怎麼樣怎麼樣但是你們忽略了過程"},{"start":10805.054,"end":10825.787,"text":"這個過程在二讀會協商之前韓院長非常辛苦然後召集朝野協商院長您可能有所不知立法院請行政院主計機關還有各部會會同作業就是要確定統三金額如何分配到各部會結果呢"},{"start":10827.045,"end":10850.903,"text":"我不知道你們是刻意還是真的是怎麼樣忽略行政院各單位跟民進黨團聯手已讀不回立法院幕僚以各種方式邀請行政機關確定分配額的作業置之不理這一塊說不通吧因為計算案出來包括剛剛講要追加的話不如就通過復議案"},{"start":10853.064,"end":10858.785,"text":"各位 院長 這個過程就不合理當初其實要協調可是相關單位不來 這個我應該要講這個也是中華民國憲政史上從來沒有過的過去立法院二讀會之前的協調協商都會如期進行結果我們也召開了結果 全國都在看召開會議的時候"},{"start":10882.043,"end":10893.916,"text":"這個執政黨的黨團幹部冗長發言癱瘓整個協商最後讓協商走不下去那現在那個行政單位又用這個當藉口"},{"start":10894.973,"end":10919.722,"text":"這個不合理委員剛剛也說我們姓名數有跟您說明溝通所以問題就解決了但是其他的委員不是這樣子好溝通嗎那個是在這個之前沒錯所以他把那些對特定機關的特定的印象帶到整個協商裡面去做特定機關特定項目的刪減巨幅的刪減最大的問題就是在院長協商的時候我們看到太多次協商不下去"},{"start":10920.762,"end":10936.59,"text":"很大問題是行政立法機關最重要的協商這個已經浪費很多時間沒有辦法往下走這個是很大的問題所以這個部分我想院長您這個部分不能夠歸咎在野黨那再來"},{"start":10942.053,"end":10968.485,"text":"這個有講到覺得如果預算有不當支出的可以合理的刪減所謂合理當然我們剛剛講很多的溝通所以不能夠關閉溝通所以這個合理當然我相信你也認同不是行政院決定那是這個立法院他絕對由立法院來最後裁決這個才是民主憲政那再來就是"},{"start":10971.616,"end":11000.885,"text":"我們特別在複議案也講到說這個各機關的法定義務在審查過程中其實我們都有充分考量因為這個複議案裡面文字寫到說會影響法定機關正常運作以及履行其法定職務那我們現在秀一下同影片我們在統刪的部分也特別的有講我們有考量法律明文規定之初不刪外"},{"start":11001.693,"end":11021.955,"text":"其餘桶山10%所以這個部分也因此 院長您知道嗎行政院的這一些動作我們在最近創造出一個新名詞叫做賣慘就是說其實很多情況大家要了解真實情況是如何"},{"start":11023.683,"end":11042.273,"text":"再來附議案內容講到總三減數較前三年平均增加六倍三減程度衝擊到運作這點我想您了解總三減數可能是史上最高但是呢"},{"start":11043.666,"end":11058.327,"text":"我們的預算數也是史上最高我想您應該知道我們的預算還有我們的預算增加的幅度急劇增加因為我們2,806億的新增事項項目是去年沒有的2,806億"},{"start":11060.45,"end":11089.094,"text":"這扣掉3兆1325億就剩下2兆8519億就跟巨人一樣啊這些內容我們在很多預算我都寫在裡面了但這一點大家都很厭我覺得委員都有意忽略這一段但是我們既然現在看結論就是你急劇增加你幅度增加史上最高你的總預算我們刪減了以後你還是史上最高所以這一塊我們希望這個外界也都可以了解"},{"start":11089.514,"end":11111.733,"text":"史上最高是因為增加了2806億的新增項目您剛剛還有特別講到說院會就是我們整個的刪減以於原編列預算案數不合理來特別的舉例說包括監察院那以監察院來說過去民進黨也長期也認同就是說"},{"start":11114.048,"end":11135.735,"text":"廢除監察院 這也是長期你們的主張嘛 不能用刪減預算來行使修改憲法的權利啊那被刪減成這樣其實是什麼 是所有委員帶著民眾的期許民眾認為監察院長期功能不彰 它淪為政治醜庸那所以預算被刪 這是表達民眾的整體的憤怒"},{"start":11137.355,"end":11165.498,"text":"那外交部呢外交部的免宣費被超過預算數三減超過的部分2953萬你覺得他怎麼處理這邊其實我們院長您不能裝傻我沒有裝我本來就傻嘛你再客氣我們院會有特別說明院會處理後的三減數不超過預算編列數這一塊我們都有特別在院會都有特別說明講了那麼多次你們都不聽"},{"start":11166.522,"end":11169.243,"text":"史上最高是因為2606億,你就把我這段話好,謝謝徐委員下一位我們請林黛化委員詢問好,有請院長請卓院長備詢"},{"start":11203.053,"end":11204.085,"text":"林委員好好"},{"start":11205.35,"end":11232.183,"text":"這個院長本席支持行政院提出復議謝謝那這個國民黨的說法他說這個我過去給你八十塊你能夠做一百塊給你你也可以做一百二十塊給你你說你現在不能做我覺得他罔顧了一件事情我們要的是我們的人民要的是生活品質的提升而不是生存條件的維持"},{"start":11233.383,"end":11259.36,"text":"這件事情是國民黨目前已經罔顧了以民為本的民主政治的精神而且他現在的大幅刪減預算之後已經犧牲了便民的服務第三個我們念之再之的這個國營事業的補貼因為院長你剛才在簡報當中有說到台電預算這個刪減之後要維持台電的運作只有兩個一個要嘛就請他舉債要嘛呢就請他這個要"},{"start":11260.46,"end":11286.314,"text":"漲電價 哇這個漲到漲電價那可是這個讓到底是要漲工業用電還是民生用電都會讓我人民這個頭皮發麻最後我們總預算這個有沒有通過對我高雄的建設影響甚具在這邊也一一的跟我們院長在這邊提到在這個民主政治的核心精神當中當然基於政治主張各自的這個表述那"},{"start":11286.954,"end":11303.709,"text":"基礎還是要以民眾福祉最大化來核心為出發點過往總預算的審查其實都是針對行政機關的個別項目科目或者是他的執行模式我們進行檢討沒有像這一次是以行政單位的行政業務費用來做刪減"},{"start":11306.511,"end":11334.558,"text":"那也就是說我雖然保有你國家運作需要的科目預算但是我卻刪減了我們公務人員需要的溝通說明宣傳協調辦公街下的行政費用就是我保有你的身體完好但是我把你的手腳都剁掉了好那這個本席想了解因為行政業務費刪減所影響的行政服務機關的數量跟他的預算我不知道行政院這邊有沒有做一些盤點呢"},{"start":11336.035,"end":11358.102,"text":"我們都在非常多的簡報裡面都非常充分的清楚到底我們增加的是什麼到底違反的是什麼包括預算法第49條他說你要申請預算要指出他的機關別正式別跟基金別那在桶山的這個今天我們遇到的桶山這個項目裡面是沒有辦法明確看得出來依照預算法49條的規定"},{"start":11359.871,"end":11386.18,"text":"那這個國民黨說啊這個我們這個當時行政院的中南東部聯合中心是為了酬庸而成立那我就好好爬書一下啦行政院南部聯合服務中心簡稱南服中心他是在國民黨執政的時候的1998年成立的那我們南服中心服務哪些人哪些行政區呢高雄市屏東縣跟澎湖縣就以我們辦理附照來講"},{"start":11387.02,"end":11406.438,"text":"過往我如果要辦理護照第一次辦理護照我一定要外交部臨櫃過往我中南部的人我都要到台北的外交部臨櫃現在因為有南福中心我直接到南福中心過去臨櫃辦理第一次就好可是現在南福中心這個右邊有個照片這個是我非常不忍心我們南福中心現在呢就是電梯停用"},{"start":11408.369,"end":11421.595,"text":"好那這個國營事業剛才台電這個補貼預算被刪減那院長您聽到只有舉債跟調整電價三月份下個月的三月份的電價審議委員會請問會長工業用電或民生用電呢部長請回應"},{"start":11428.793,"end":11450.745,"text":"這個時候談這個言之過早因為我們現在努力希望一千億的撥補能夠順利通過副議案能夠回來即使沒有辦法的話我們最悲觀的講即使沒有辦法的話首先要求的當然還是台電從他內部的行政效率成本的管控來做更有效的一些管理"},{"start":11451.783,"end":11462.971,"text":"經濟部長也會跟台電在研究那如果能夠以民生為優先能夠不漲當然是最好但如果撐不下去的時候他到底要選擇是舉債還是要漲價尤其漲價是要經過漲價審議委員會店價審議委員會來做最後決定院長這個其實在我們地方已經都很沸騰了尤其像我們這個"},{"start":11472.377,"end":11499.173,"text":"這個石化鋼鐵鋁業是我高雄的重要的產業那他們目前也接受遭受到中國全球傾銷市場的打擊所以當工業用電增加的時候那對他們是雪上加霜那對民生用電也是一樣其實我全國的總人口數是並沒有增加我的總戶數增加也不多所以你現在如果也漲民生用電的話而不去漲工業用電我講的這是"},{"start":11500.073,"end":11516.821,"text":"按照媒體傳聞的如果現在政府是要漲民生用電而不漲這個工業用電那我的總戶人口的這個民生的戶數沒增加人口沒有增加情況之下而用電最多的是工業用電所以你反而會節貧 季負了"},{"start":11519.722,"end":11535.763,"text":"所以到底在下個月現在是二月也都快中旬了所以你三月就要面臨的電價漲的審議委員會所以這個傳聞到底是真是假因為如果說好我撥補了一千億所以我就不會漲電價了嗎還是說第二個"},{"start":11538.146,"end":11538.626,"text":"有關於外部傳聞台電要漲電價"},{"start":11556.867,"end":11584.413,"text":"這件事情我們不知道這個傳聞是從哪裡來的這是第一回答你的問題第二個呢漲不漲電價是由電價審議委員來做決定並不是這個台電他自己就可以決定要不要漲電價所以跟我這次的總預算要不要去撥補一千億給他跟漲電價是兩個脫鉤的嗎撥補一千億主要是我們是在"},{"start":11585.963,"end":11602.959,"text":"把台電的財務情形來做一個調整如果我們能夠撥補一千億我們就可以少借一點錢少付一點利息但是跟台電整個經營來講"},{"start":11604.781,"end":11631.407,"text":"我們想如果能夠撥補我們就不用借那麼多錢而且我們現在已經借到快上限了所以對我們將來的社會經濟網路方面院長對於漲電價這件事情你要不要作為你跟國在野黨當中彼此在做溝通的一個條件我本席也沒有意見我剛剛部長所說的就是這一千億叫健全台電的財務讓他的長年虧損"},{"start":11633.767,"end":11654.682,"text":"現在幾乎達到4300億的虧損能夠彌補一些他就能夠在這個財務的成本減少那這樣的情況底下他就比較能夠把現在的這個營運順利的推動下去但如果沒有這個1000億他的虧損依舊存在虧損的原因是因為戰爭的關係燃料上漲所以說他的健全體制剛才講嘛台電我撥補他這個虧損之後因為我刪除他的這個"},{"start":11661.446,"end":11688.372,"text":"這個補貼一千億所以他只有兩個啊院長您剛才講的他只有舉債跟調整電價所以如果說他調整體質當中他沒有透過舉債沒有透過這個調整電價他不會有辦法健全體質啊所以他就只好所以您認為還有什麼方法是我不漲電價又不需要舉債然後又不用撥補好像台電這樣也回復下去舉債是台電可以決定的"},{"start":11688.752,"end":11715.399,"text":"但是調整電價是省議委員會才能決定的現在至於說要不要調或是調哪個部分我覺得言之過早院長這個我們民眾在意的還是說你要不要漲電價這件事情不管是工業電價的漲或者是民生用電的漲這個才是民眾在意的當然你在報告當中也很明確的講我如果不給他我也只有調漲電價跟舉債這是您剛才在"},{"start":11718.76,"end":11747.374,"text":"在報告當中有提到的所以我要調要講到說這個因果關係會導致我人民在意的到底會不會漲電價所以在這邊這個可能再過三四個禮拜就要面臨民眾其實就要面臨到底會不會漲電價所帶來的我的通貨膨脹包括我現在企業在鋼鐵石化鋁業我剛已經講了授權全中國的一個全面啟銷如果你漲工業電價那就雪上加霜"},{"start":11747.734,"end":11774.14,"text":"但是你用到你漲了民生用電那不好意思那只有讓我們現在已經面臨通貨膨脹這幾年當中的大幅成長之下那會讓我的人民的痛苦指數更高而已好那本席也是提醒這一點好另外呢在高雄啊跟台灣其他幾城市都是面臨都市再造轉型的關鍵期所以只有地方的發展好我人民的生活才會好所以"},{"start":11774.46,"end":11802.39,"text":"地方施政是一定需要中央預算保障跟各項業務合作的總預算就是中央與地方的合作企劃書是不應該有大規模不合理的變動在這邊我要替我們高雄市政府再次的表達如果總預算刪減之後我的新興計劃有哪些沒有辦法執行里長的年終未問補助岡山地區的廢汙水的排放消防"},{"start":11803.07,"end":11825.226,"text":"救災設備及通訊系統以及擴大身心障礙福利機構的服務也因為要讓院長知道我地方的這個高雄市政府這邊對於總預算不能通過當中的很大的隱憂以及對元氣性的計畫陷入不穩定我們有哪些呢長照2.0有55億這都是中央你支持我們高雄市政府的"},{"start":11825.786,"end":11848.459,"text":"兒童托育補助13億基礎建設預算的三檢包括我志宏池防災以及我市區的淹水道路與公共設施的維護以及產業園區跟公共建設計畫受阻院長我想我以高雄市政府如果跟你一樣會面臨到在整個三檢預算之後以及財發法"},{"start":11850.401,"end":11867.137,"text":"這個整個的一個大調整之下中央跟我們地方的發展都會同步受到影響的所以在這邊我要提到讓也請在野黨雖然現在是針對院長您的質詢不過我在這邊也要提出總預算是政府面對未來的規劃不是回顧過去"},{"start":11870.319,"end":11896.477,"text":"2006年的時候馬總統也提到每年的總預算是不同的有的是一次性經常性的編列不能純粹用數字去看要看的是哪些項目所以他其實是呼應馬總統都呼應你這個卓院長那再來學者也講到說稅出不能只看稅出歷年最高稅率也是歷年來最高的那所以2025年中央政府的總預算較2024年增加了9.8%"},{"start":11899.999,"end":11927.625,"text":"這些都是讓我們台灣當局最重要的所謂慷慨所以包括公共建設798億國防建設的415建保財務協助方案336億以及我們撥補住宅興建計劃的社宅也有200多億但都是為未來做準備所以院長我們一起加油人民要的是生活品質的提升而不是生存條件的維持所以總預算是規劃未來"},{"start":11929.845,"end":11943.688,"text":"而我們很遺憾的看到在野黨總是活在過去用著是今非的方式粗魯的破壞我們對於下一代更美好的藍圖院長我們一起加油謝謝好謝謝委員請委員支持謝謝好謝謝林委員謝謝卓議長下一位請徐宇貞委員質詢"},{"start":11968.482,"end":11969.925,"text":"謝謝主席我們請卓院長請卓院長備詢"},{"start":11981.4,"end":11997.32,"text":"薛恩好院長好院長我想請教您蔡英文前總統她在2012年的11月22號在自己的臉書上說我覺得現在的政府機關所有的預算都要減20%一定要大砍才能帶動結構性的轉變"},{"start":11999.102,"end":12026.054,"text":"而大砍之後拿出10%來重新分配給最需要的那因為我當過部會首長所以我知道砍掉10%對政府或部會來說都會活得好好的那當時陳其邁市長也同意蔡英文總統的說法因此也轉貼了他這個貼文那所以請問院長114年度我們的立法院的中央所通過的中央政府的總預算三減的幅度有超過10%嗎"},{"start":12027.817,"end":12055.592,"text":"雖然我沒有數字應該是沒有沒有超過10%是那請問蔡英文陳其邁都說砍掉10%政府也可以過得好好那為什麼現在賴政府的預算被刪減的幅度低於10%那為什麼整個部會大家都好像是世界末日然後到處在造謠到處在說這個現在自然難行過不下去請問一下這個是院長您的意思還是賴清德總統的意思"},{"start":12056.233,"end":12056.956,"text":"行政院編列的預算"},{"start":12058.462,"end":12084.839,"text":"距離跟立法院說明那如果中間發生跟行政編任預算不符合的我們來說明當然是依照我們編任預算原來的想法所以我建議院長是不是可以去跟蔡英文前總統或陳其邁市長請教一下怎麼才能讓賴政府各部會活下去他們可以做得到我相信你們應該也做得到如果委員會看到這張單子現在我想各部會都在造謠嘛"},{"start":12086.34,"end":12090.742,"text":"所以現在各部會一直在招搖哭窮所以我覺得一定有一方在說謊所以如果院長您是對的代表是不是蔡英文前總統就是在說謊"},{"start":12106.369,"end":12121.761,"text":"我們可以看到行政院的附議說明中有提到預算的提出審議跟執行必須要行政權跟立法權的協力分工請問院長立法權可不可以透過預算進行監督來制衡行政權"},{"start":12123.615,"end":12144.203,"text":"立法權可以監督行政權的方式很多是可不可以透過審議預算預算進行監督要監督同時也要提高國家的行政效率跟整體發展所以院長也同意本來我們立法權就是可以透過法案透過預算的監督來制衡行政權這本來就是權力分立的一個原則那請問一下"},{"start":12145.003,"end":12161.593,"text":"院長您在行政院的附議說明中有提到114年度審議的結果與這個預算審議的合理的監督範圍請問院長什麼叫合理的監督範圍剛剛有提到有七個部會包括院"},{"start":12162.455,"end":12175.369,"text":"被刪減之後的刪減數超過原編的預算數所以院長的意思就是說以後我們立法院在審預算的時候一定要先跟行政院溝通你們通過之後你們同意之後我們才能夠刪減預算啊行政院如果編100塊你不能刪120塊"},{"start":12177.971,"end":12200.311,"text":"這個部分我相信一定可以在做過草野協商的時候來做一些溝通那為什麼當時草野協商沒辦法溝通為什麼結果會是這樣就是當時我們民進黨的這個總召柯建民總召他其實一直都在背個我們預算的一個草野協商所以導致說有一些的有一些這樣的提案我們沒有辦法去做一個溝通我想這個才是"},{"start":12200.731,"end":12208.074,"text":"協商的過程就算有問題表決的數字也不能出問題等一下我會跟你來討論那另外還有就是最近美國聯邦政府又因為預算的審查問題可能出現停擺那美國聯邦政府自1976年來國會實施預算審核流程之後"},{"start":12220.86,"end":12240.407,"text":"已經請您看一下已經出現23次至少持續一天的資金缺口造成聯邦政府停擺那其中最長的一次是在川普第一任的時候是從2018年12月21號持續到2019年1月25號逐途停擺了三四天那他在第一任任內因為停擺了三次所以總共停擺了39天"},{"start":12241.787,"end":12261.497,"text":"其中民主黨執政時期停擺了9次共和黨執政時期停擺了14次那歷經停擺的美國總統有福特、卡特、雷根、老布希、柯林頓、歐巴馬跟川普請問院長知不知道美國執政黨最後怎麼結束預算沒通過的停擺狀態嗎委員希望我們停擺幾天"},{"start":12264.67,"end":12278.794,"text":"沒有 我是問你知不知道他結束停擺的狀態 您知道是為什麼嗎當然是草野協商他們就是加強與在野黨的溝通加強與在野黨的溝通加強與在野黨的溝通才是真正解決問題的方法當然我想 請問院長經過美國經歷這麼多次的政府的停擺執政黨有因此而發起大罷免國會的議員嗎"},{"start":12292.017,"end":12300.521,"text":"憲法設計不同憲法設計不同國情不同所以我們的憲政設計是有說要大罷免我們所有的委員嗎所以我想這個憲法設計問題並不代表我們中華民國的政府可以這樣做我沒有去講大罷免啊"},{"start":12317.009,"end":12334.902,"text":"那現在罷免35席的這個我們國民黨的委員不是行政院不是總統去發動這樣的事情那這樣如果沒有默許的話怎麼可能有這樣的一個狀況發生我想這個部分不是我們今天討論的重點但是我必須要提出來那我也想請教一下院長韓國瑜院長也曾經跟您說過是不是不要提複議要加強溝通結果你們有這樣做嗎韓院長跟我講了很多話"},{"start":12345.78,"end":12356.406,"text":"很多的條件 最後不履行的 不是都在我這只是其中最後的狀況 之前談的條件沒有履行的 不是在我"},{"start":12357.967,"end":12383.782,"text":"請問一下韓國瑜院長有跟您說過是不是不要提復議是不是要加強溝通嗎那就是大家要加強溝通我想韓國瑜院長主要是這樣的意思但是我們現在看到的行政院現在好像感覺是在為大惡霸在添柴火所以堅持要提出復議所以我覺得這個部分請院長真的要好好的去談一下如果復議案通過的話"},{"start":12384.822,"end":12411.139,"text":"對社會的觀感是不一樣的我也誠心希望如此我們希望的是我想這個不要大惡霸才是社會最期待的喔那我可以跟院長再探討一下您看一下這個表格這個是立法院通過114年度中央政府總預算的經費高達兩兆9248億比113年度增加了729億那如果扣除掉補助給台電的1000億其實三減的比例也只有3.55%"},{"start":12412.7,"end":12431.605,"text":"也遠低於蔡英文前總統說的10%結果各部會紛紛跳出來開記者會然後還製作假圖片造謠欺騙國人這是中華民國史上的第一招而且院長您在行政院副議案說明也有提到114年度稅出預算總三件數是過去"},{"start":12432.845,"end":12456.545,"text":"平均的6倍喔那逾越了預算審議的合理監督範圍所以請問院長喔立法院審議預算需要先徵求行政院的同意嗎過去8年是不是都把我們立法院當作行政院的立法局了而且你知不知道在114年度我們在做這個預算的黨團協商的時候跟過去幾年最大的差異是什麼"},{"start":12458.066,"end":12464.021,"text":"我們今年的預算跟過去幾年最大的差異在做政黨黨團協商的時候最大的差異是什麼這是"},{"start":12466.03,"end":12491.492,"text":"朝野內部大院內部的協商或是院長主持的協商最大的差異我要告訴院長就是執政黨的立法院的黨團總召柯建民帶頭的來杯葛預算的協商的一個進行所以導致部分的協商沒有辦法進行有效的溝通這在過去是沒有發生過的我是不能這樣講如果最大的差異就是組織協商的人不同啊"},{"start":12492.128,"end":12505.558,"text":"主席協商的是院長但是杯葛整個浴室進行的是柯建民總召我相信我們把過去的協商的院長協商的帶子放出來我覺得大家都應該眼光顯然都知道是為什麼原因那我們再次來看一下我們看一下這個"},{"start":12514.705,"end":12541.181,"text":"院長你再看一下剛剛講的是我們這個刪減的預算那剛剛我聽到很多民進黨的委員在講說凍結的預算1381億是史上最高那我做了一個表格請各位看一下我統計了凍結比例超過5%的有8次其中3次是凍結超過10%在扁政府馬政府時代各位可以看到即使在扁政府時代94年95年的時候"},{"start":12541.781,"end":12547.205,"text":"最初的預算數走一兆6000多億可是凍結的比例是2078億跟2130億還有在馬政府時代的時候在102年的時候最初的預算是一兆9446億那凍結的比例是2074億都遠遠的超過了"},{"start":12562.474,"end":12582.207,"text":"這一次我們凍結了1381億所以說當時扁政府跟馬政府也沒有像賴政府這樣怒氣衝天也沒有這樣不尊重國會也沒有提出復議那請問一下院長為什麼不願意去找一下陳水扁前總統請議找一下蔡英文前總統請議他們都認為既然預算可以砍20%都能夠運行當然應該知道怎麼解決喔那我想"},{"start":12588.491,"end":12611.941,"text":"其實人民已經看不慣民進黨過去八年在立法院的阿拔的行為而立法院儼然成為行政院的立法局所以國人在2024年1月13號已經投票決定民進黨只有在立法院只有51席成為少數黨那請問一下院長喔國民黨一線法替人民嚴格監督預算有什麼問題嗎"},{"start":12614.704,"end":12632.904,"text":"依法監督預算當然沒有問題我依法提出復議也是有條件的我只有在破壞憲政秩序侵害人民權利讓行政院自愛難行以及沒有經過充分的民主討論跟違背程序正義這個條件我才會被動的提出復議你一直提到自愛難行"},{"start":12634.265,"end":12661.542,"text":"那其實您有沒有您有沒有仔細的回想杯葛協商預算協商的其實是柯建民總召所以你有沒有跟柯建民總召進行溝通請他不要再來杯葛預算若是沒有溝通的話要繼續的我行我素不管是今天的這個未來的追加減或者是說我們的115年的預算的審議如果柯建民總召還是要這樣杯葛預算的協商的話根本就不可能能夠進行的我無法在這裡智慧"},{"start":12662.677,"end":12670.56,"text":"大院草野協商的內容但是就這麼多的部會全數被刪除的項目這麼多而且不能留用"},{"start":12672.374,"end":12687.405,"text":"而且這是通山的表決的時候這怎麼協商呢?我想有什麼樣的問題本來就是要溝通協商絕對沒有做不到的事情那我想在野黨監督執政黨本來就是天經地義的事情所以也是中華的一個憲法賦予我們的權利而且要經過充分的討論剛剛有提到美國聯邦政府發生那麼多次停擺的狀況他們也沒有到處去造謠到處去欺騙而是加強溝通"},{"start":12697.352,"end":12702.294,"text":"那是今年度還多了721元為什麼會至愛難行所以其實院長您在去年520上任的時候您提出您是行動創新AI內閣其實國人都充滿期待但是為什麼會現在行動創新內閣變成至愛難行內閣"},{"start":12717.721,"end":12735.912,"text":"AI內閣變成富裕內閣其實我們都很希望大家能夠好好把這個國家治理好可是如果有這麼多的自愛難行的問題應該是要加強溝通而不是用造謠的方式我們施政的理念就展現在我們的預算編列上面而這種不合理的針對特定機關到處的造謠到處各部會去造謠甚至參加任何的活動都可以聽到"},{"start":12741.716,"end":12746.599,"text":"最後我要跟院長再請教一下您可以看一下我們這個表就是國防部在114年度的預算比113年度增加416億元衛福部在114年度比113年度增加了318億元"},{"start":12772.036,"end":12794.714,"text":"而我們現在看到的是民進黨透過網軍不斷地在社群網路LINE帳號造謠國民黨民眾黨大三國防預算 衛福部的預算那所以你們這樣的行為是因為預算受到嚴格監督之後才惱羞成怒嗎如果行政院以這樣子的一個態度要來解決現在預算的困局的話一定是沒有辦法"},{"start":12795.054,"end":12819.058,"text":"那每個總統遇到預算的問題都知道要跟在野黨溝通所以說用這樣的造謠攻擊方式我們在保障的是國軍我們沒有網軍我們沒有網軍所以請院長這個部分一定要好好的解決那你要看一下我們新增的預算到底展現在哪裡去啊你老是不再看到就是我們新增的預算就拿一個數字來說明"},{"start":12822.871,"end":12830.829,"text":"請問一下國防部的預算有沒有增加416億元衛福部的預算有沒有比去年增加318億元認為我們國防預算不需增加是嗎"},{"start":12831.92,"end":12858.16,"text":"都需要增加所以我說有增加不是嗎那為什麼要造謠說三減呢每一項都受說明了我想其實喔軍事裝備這三減都50億重要的是我們遇到問題要去解決我相信卓院長您也是一個解決問題的人軍事裝備這三減都50億所以您應該要做的是要怎麼去解決這樣的困局就是加強跟在野黨的溝通而不是到處的我們還甚至看到連看板都出來了因為國民兩黨三運算所以什麼長照經費不能"},{"start":12861.462,"end":12870.367,"text":"我要加強說明我光是說中央政府今年比去年多2,806億我說了不下100次委員都沒有聽進去我覺得要加強跟大家的溝通才是全民支持我再說一次今年的預算比去年多了2,806億我說了不下100次委員你聽進去了沒有我剛剛也講比去年多了729億"},{"start":12894.622,"end":12908.007,"text":"好,我們尋答時間結束,謝謝徐委員、謝謝卓院長報告全院委員會,上午尋答進行到此為止下午2點30分繼續開會,進行委員尋答,現在休息"},{"start":19222.824,"end":19223.439,"text":"MING PAO CANADA MANGA"},{"start":19431.351,"end":19431.432,"text":"谢谢观看"},{"start":20627.557,"end":20628.367,"text":"谢谢观看 欢迎订阅我的频道"},{"start":21390.041,"end":21391.462,"text":"謝謝主席 有請卓院長"},{"start":21418.629,"end":21418.649,"text":"麻煩請專員長"},{"start":21430.046,"end":21452.316,"text":"郭委員好主委長好主委長我早上聆聽您的報告我覺得這一次的這一個復議案的內容當中顯示出來今年度的總預算可以有三個特色一個是史上被刪最多為什麼我說史上被刪最多呢就這個圖表來看的話以前可以超過2%的只有陳水扁時代的時候有超過2%"},{"start":21453.683,"end":21481.642,"text":"那甚至到陳水扁執政末年的時候2007年的時候是史上刪除最少因為那時候國民黨以為他們已經要執政了所以他們刪除最少接著呢最多的部分呢就是你現在的今年度的預算被刪了這個6%總共有三倍之多但是實質上可動之的預算當中是高達15%所以啊 院長你做一個行政院執行長啊這第一年的總預算非常重要且關鍵啊"},{"start":21482.803,"end":21510.33,"text":"這是賴清德總統就任以來他自己要編預算他想要完成自己的政見就要透過預算裡頭來執行落實這樣預算第一個被刪得這麼嚴重這是第一個問題第二個呢定義最亂的部分是什麼以前的所謂的總三減數是總預算的總三減數但是是三減項目的總三減數還是總預算的三減數搞不清楚以致這一次完全沒有核定數啊這是第二個"},{"start":21511.345,"end":21539.322,"text":"第三個解凍最困難以前在委員會解凍就可以了書面的報告一份或者排一個專案報告來進行解凍可是這一次要上升到院會裡頭又要專案報告又要在院會可是專案報告是一案一報還是全部一起報一次也沒有清楚所以也沒有潛力可循啊就這三個項目來看的話院長你是不是有補充的地方啊"},{"start":21540.582,"end":21561.052,"text":"陳委員所說預算的表現就是總統的治國理念最具體的因為有預算就可以去推動很多的政策像這次除了已經向大院說明過的之外我們在治水預算也增加我們對中小企業的多元振興輔導也增加我們對教育也增加對長照也增加等等增加這麼多"},{"start":21561.852,"end":21579.529,"text":"那如果預算被合理的審議合理的刪減行政院都應該接受但是如果他刪減是針對特定機關特定項目大幅度的刪減巨幅的這個凍結那造成動彈不得不是今天所說的金額的多小他把本預算沒有動"},{"start":21580.109,"end":21604.939,"text":"但要做這個政策的周遭的業務費都刪掉了那預算沒有人可以執行是 也就是因為刪除過多你沒有辦法執行二來定義太亂三來解凍又最難的情況底下你不得不提出這個復一案嘛 對不對這種情況底下可是站在我們作為一個執政黨的情況韓院長也曾經提出說是不是用追加預算的方式可否進行"},{"start":21605.859,"end":21627.526,"text":"第二個有沒有可能透過再協商的方式來進行快速的解凍的方式對不對第二個方法是這樣子啊那第三你早上還要提到是說還有其他的憲政方法至少有這三個方法嘛剛剛你在講嘛除了富裕之外是不是還有這三個方法好第一個我們來想追加預算有沒有可能請問一下追加預算有沒有可能"},{"start":21628.328,"end":21652.075,"text":"追加預算當然也是程序之一啦但追加預算它還是要經過一段時間還要符合追加預算預算法那四個條款所有的內容限制也是蠻多的而且你三減的預算你如果這塊不當已經三減了你可以再追加預算嗎一般追加預算預算不足再進行追加預算不是嗎所以說顯然不符嘛這個不可能嘛第二個有沒有可能找韓院長來想說加速解凍的可能性"},{"start":21654.093,"end":21674.407,"text":"這個如果將來需要的時候因為我還是感謝韓院長在總預算最後審議之前他還是做出了相當的努力讓我們也達成了一些的共識有努力沒有結果啊也沒有結果啊口惠而不死嘛第三個呢有沒有其他憲政的一個手法"},{"start":21676.297,"end":21700.515,"text":"如果合法合憲的程序那當然最後在最後最後的選擇就是尋求憲政的救濟我們只有對用憲法的精神來解釋這部財政憲法到底合不合憲法的規定跟精神好這是第三個手法好早上啊那個傅坤琦把醫藥部會的首長叫上來每一個看起來很仁慈的方式如有自然男性來找我"},{"start":21701.476,"end":21728.333,"text":"我根本想不出什麼方法啊剩下就這幾個方法而已不是嗎難道我們立法院可以編總預算嗎立法院只有議決法案跟預算的權利只有議決法案的這個權利我們可以編總預算嗎不可能嘛第二個難道立法院可以印鈔票嗎當然不行當然也不行嘛難道還是要用朱立倫的方法發現金來繳電費是不是我真的搞不清楚有什麼方法嘛"},{"start":21729.229,"end":21757.878,"text":"對不對 好 那你再看看喔現在早上 正 早上還提出一個很荒謬的事情也就是說呢 副主席還提到說有關於這個台積電的部分你去看看喔 跟這個總預算也有關係台積電整個全球佈局啊 院長出去外面就是奈米數加1嘛留在台灣就是奈米數減1嘛 是不是把先進的製程留在台灣嘛"},{"start":21759.69,"end":21777.214,"text":"台積電去美國設廠什麼時候會生產3奈米也要到2028年的時候才會生產3奈米我們的台積電現在3奈米在南科的時候不知道生產幾年了而且今年高雄可能就2奈米就要生產了是不是台積電在美國第一個廠也只不過要生產4奈米"},{"start":21778.777,"end":21795.275,"text":"對 也是四奈米嘛對不對 四奈米 三奈米跟二奈米等到我們二奈米不知道生產了幾年的時候台積電才有所謂二奈米嘛關鍵是在那個時間差 時間走嘛就是說我們有拉長這個時間起碼三年以上把先進的製程留在台灣這就是台灣的優勢 是不是部長對產業的全球佈局"},{"start":21799.42,"end":21822.106,"text":"前面兩個要求第一個就是維持台灣最領先的科技地位第二個無論怎麼佈局都要跟流台灣不能當台灣的產業空洞所以這種N加1的方式台灣加1的方式是我們奈米加1嘛你出去就奈米加1嘛而這樣奈米加1的全球佈局有什麼好處第一個有經濟安全保障的效應"},{"start":21823.166,"end":21848.873,"text":"第二個有科技外交的效果對不對第三有能源解壓的一個需求嘛你所有集中在台灣的話你有辦法有那麼多的電嗎來提供這些先進製程來生產嗎我們現在選就蔡黨已經一再質疑說我們能源政策有問題不夠電不夠如果你把所有先進製程留在台灣還夠嗎這個現實的壓力嘛不是嗎"},{"start":21851.825,"end":21862.216,"text":"分散市場跟分散製程的所在一向是產業在佈局當中重要的考量那簡單的講 他說台積電不能去美他是怕台美關係太好嗎"},{"start":21863.427,"end":21883.645,"text":"我想想不出什麼理由啊啊你一手說不能去美結果你知道嗎我們在美國的台橋台商這兩天跟透過跟美國國會議員很密切的接觸會產生對台灣更有力的協助我們樂見這樣的結果但這個不是我們唯一的要求我們唯一的要求是讓台灣的廠商在世界站上重要的地位"},{"start":21883.945,"end":21906.242,"text":"他或許有外交的效果 事實上也有經濟上的考量啦他必須將近就定的市場的需求嘛就像艾斯摩爾會來台灣設廠 來台南設廠最主要的原因 他要提供台積電的服務 同樣的道理嘛二來再來講 你說 好 假設不能去美的話 他要跟流台灣的話他希望台積電壯大的話 那為什麼這一次三大園區當中 各凍結30%"},{"start":21909.997,"end":21920.683,"text":"院長 你不覺得這很矛盾嗎一首說要跟留台灣 不能出去另外一首說要凍結南科 中科 竹科30%中科南科凍結30%對台積電會不會影響 國務部長會不會影響"},{"start":21924.884,"end":21945.581,"text":"報告委員那凍結一定是會有影響當然會有影響對不對台積電正整的南科的產值都超過一半凍結30%不就凍結南科嗎不是嗎所以一手這樣做一手這樣做這根本是左右矛盾的情況左右矛盾又出來了我想請一下那個外交部的那個林佳龍部長麻煩請外交部長備詢"},{"start":21946.602,"end":21968.692,"text":"林部長他上來具有宏觀的思考提出一個總和外交人人都是外交官所以外交很重要可是這次我們外交部變成受災戶最大的受災戶整個業務被刪減五成宣傳會全部被刪光我真的很擔心部長你這個總和外交還推得下去嗎"},{"start":21971.572,"end":21989.8,"text":"業務費凍結一半影響非常大尤其是我們外管的運作現在已經是三月了我想韓院長在上特別了解我們駐外人員的辛苦跟大拼的精神所以今年我們也是透過美處安排韓院長率團"},{"start":21990.74,"end":22014.779,"text":"去參加川普總統的就職典禮對阿你很貼心阿那個韓院長出去應該大部分都花外交部的嘛都外交部買單嘛對不對在地當然我們立法院也有國會外交的預算但是大部分出去我們出去大部分都花外交部的啦但是呢我們立法院卻一直砍外交部的預算但是我給你一個數字立法院自己在國會外交增加了不少"},{"start":22016.223,"end":22020.227,"text":"增加了50%從4160萬變成6759萬爆增2599萬一手在砍外交部一手增加自己國會外交你覺得有沒有矛盾當然像國際宣傳費用1億3的1億4"},{"start":22038.981,"end":22061.292,"text":"這個我們當然很難做事以外就是零啦當然應該是沒有付的啦但是當然大院怎麼樣處理立法院出去大部分是花外交部的啊奇怪出去外交部要他買單在國內要砍外交部的預算你不覺得是矛盾嗎更何況啊你去看我們這一今年度的預算增加兩千萬再增加在一般事務費喔"},{"start":22062.745,"end":22068.541,"text":"五百萬再增加什麼 國會聯誼會喔就旅費的部分喔 增加兩千五百多萬喔"},{"start":22070.094,"end":22095.896,"text":"老實說我們立法委員基本上沒有增加我們還是一樣20萬報告委員我們外交部這個我們這個出國還有邀訪的費用是被砍了一成五每次被砍了一成五連那個也被砍嘛但是立法院多了50%多了50%而且但是這不多在立法委員身上我覺得這基本上應該是立法院正副院長用得到而已"},{"start":22097.069,"end":22119.36,"text":"這應該是韓院長還有江副院長的外交特資費啦高達2500萬哪有這種道理如果你認為外交很重要的話外交部的預算就不應該砍啊你一手認為外交很重要 國會外交很重要國會外交是第二股 外交第一股 外交砍掉 第二股 外交增加你不覺得這很矛盾嗎 部長"},{"start":22120.974,"end":22148.49,"text":"是影響很大因為現在全世界都想跟台灣交朋友我們外館真的是業務增加很多那我們出訪的立委又特別多特別寒暑假所以我們要接待以外在地的接洽真的也是需要預算的支持如果像現在我們又增加50%的話出訪的比例一定會比以前更增加嘛更增加是不是要花外交部更多的錢那你怎麼辦"},{"start":22150.293,"end":22175.485,"text":"沒錢就是沒辦法辦啊所以以後要立法院自行買單就好了外交部不用幫忙出了是不是這個當然立法院如果有增加當然就看立委跟立法院的決定啦但我的部分就搞不好你以後出去要還院長請你吃飯了啦我跟你講謝謝委員委員是在凸顯預算審議的不合理啦但是我認為政府國家是一體的"},{"start":22176.145,"end":22201.096,"text":"無論誰如果代表國家為國家走到世界去院長你有高度啦你有高度啦但是我們還是要合理的分配但是其他人不一定像你一樣有高度啦但是受災戶的不只外交部啦院長我在跟你講那個0121的受災戶很嚴重你知道為什麼嗎就是0403你一直下去南部的時候地震的時候受災戶很嚴重當初你就提到說要比照0403但是0403院長我跟您提醒一下"},{"start":22204.11,"end":22213.088,"text":"一個月的時候就通過重建方案的含低利貸款一個月就通過了可是我們0121到現在低利貸款還沒通過呢"},{"start":22214.383,"end":22233.923,"text":"就我知道內政部在1 2月21號的時候說送到國發會去了國發會遲遲都沒有開會我就不曉得為什麼就查一查了解了結果聽說又跟預算有關係好像啊是要動用預算還是要動用基金這搞不清楚"},{"start":22234.784,"end":22247.214,"text":"我就想到說這是不是又跟這一次的總預算被刪除有關聯啊院長你不要說明一下啊這第一代考很重要所有八大公股銀行都下去了啊1.1871到現在還沒有辦法核定"},{"start":22248.682,"end":22273.858,"text":"跟我們報告 再無論如何預算是不是有刪除無論是不是有刪除啦我會要求救災的部分絕對我們自己怎麼樣都要把它補足事實上已經拖了五十幾天啊所以因為0403那個專案已經有了那個辦法已經有了所以我們沒有另外去弄一個就是比照它再來審查的這個速度我們這兩天有發現盡量把它補下來我已經要求國發會直接送到幾天 給個時間嘛給個時間嘛我們今天會送"},{"start":22277.26,"end":22304.716,"text":"今天會送上來今天送上來 明天先出來這禮拜完成好的好 謝謝院長最後院長最近很夯的一個議題我想請你表態一下為什麼台灣的藝人常常跟對岸來唱和常常對中共來唱和常常來表示這些親中的言論來擾亂這些台灣的一些米心這種情況底下要怎麼處理"},{"start":22306.073,"end":22335.756,"text":"藝人走綜維在他的演藝的市場他著重在大陸那麼大的一個市場但是我覺得每個人對自己生長的地方這個根一定要扎下去他才會有根可以回我們現在看到有些藝人去到大陸發展不順的時候他還是回到台灣啦是啊 最後根還是在台灣嘛可是邱主委這要怎麼處理啊這擾亂民心欸是 謝謝委員的指導我們的極少數的國內的藝人在中國大陸"},{"start":22368.121,"end":22385.294,"text":"謝謝郭國文委員質詢謝謝主委長跟部會所長的背景謝謝跟委員會報告全委會報告今天是我們剛才質詢的郭國文委員的生日我們掌聲跟他祝壽生日快樂好謝謝恭喜接下來我們請洪孟愷委員請詢問質詢謝謝"},{"start":22400.799,"end":22407.126,"text":"主席謝謝 麻煩請卓院長 還有衛福部邱部長麻煩再請卓院長 衛福部邱部長請"},{"start":22417.162,"end":22441.849,"text":"紅委員好好院長好部長好來部長我想先請教我這過年結束之後最近我要先幫我們的醫護人員來講講話因為醫護人員真的非常的辛苦尤其疫情期間的時候我們看到很多醫護人員在第一線那撐過之後到現在我們也持續希望能夠給醫護人員合理的一個待遇啊是的可是"},{"start":22442.729,"end":22461.26,"text":"醫護人員的短缺跟勞動的條件其實是很大的一個問題它跟預算來講沒有那麼直接的關係因為最大的離職潮其實是在疫情之後跟去年的六月所以醫護人員他希望的是能夠改善醫護的勞動空間勞動條件是不是是的我想改善醫護"},{"start":22466.533,"end":22484.453,"text":"工作條件其實是政府一直在努力的那行政院在所以他是長期以來的一個問題過去您擔任立法委員的時候也很關心是對不對是那就沒有存在是說因為說什麼刪預算凍結預算而造成醫護人員的這個負擔嘛"},{"start":22487.296,"end":22512.386,"text":"因為過去預算一樣是照常給你們使用啊過去八年民進黨政府不是每一次國會多數的時候都支持衛福部的預算但是最大的離職潮就在疫情之後跟去年的六月那醫護人員的辛苦到底誰來幫他們發聲報告委員如果預算受到凍結或者是刪減其實還是有影響到醫療"},{"start":22513.902,"end":22541.139,"text":"我現在在講的是之前的狀況 你剛也已經承認了嘛是不是之前就已經有離職潮這是不是長期的問題所以我們是不是應該要一起努力來解決長期的問題當然當然 是來 部長我再請教一下我一定要利用這個機會讓你說明清楚醫護人員的月薪有7萬塊平均嗎跟委員報告齁我們的衛福部的粉專講說護理師的月薪有7萬"},{"start":22542.925,"end":22568.335,"text":"結果雞成整個大炸鍋我們看一下新聞裡面報導講說醫護人員紛紛表達不滿認為衛福部是誘導誤導而且這樣反而是汙名化好像讓醫護人員覺得是說他們坐領高薪讓外界覺得是有對立覺得說他們坐領高薪但實際上他們薪水有那麼多嗎所以甚至有人講這不知道是哪一個大腦袋想出來的來"},{"start":22571.987,"end":22599.575,"text":"月薪是行情價嗎是灌水灌到離譜的價格還有現在有沒有看到護理師在網上發起什麼運動發起他貼出他的薪資單他把他的薪資單貼出來每一個護理師都講說抱歉我拉低了平均抱歉我沒有達到7萬那我們想請教如果護理師沒有達到7萬的話衛福部是不是要編列預算補足"},{"start":22600.731,"end":22622.519,"text":"部長給你一個機會澄清一下護理師的待遇有平均月薪7萬元嗎報告委員醫護同仁真的工作非常辛苦他們的待遇如果能夠一直提升是我們很期待的事情第二個這個網站上面所呈現的是一個人收入除以12他是由在112年11月的時候由"},{"start":22626.318,"end":22651.278,"text":"縣市衛生府邀請各地的醫院他把他的整個說他們護理人員的一個就是薪資包括固定跟非固定當然這裡面可能有包括獎金年終獎金等等的除以12出來的一個數目那我問過幾乎問過所有的重要的尤其是北部不管我問台大北醫什麼都滿些場跟說你們的你們這個報告的"},{"start":22652.899,"end":22661.843,"text":"薪資是不是真實的他們也說絕對是真實的我昨天有問新光醫院的院長他說他絕對是真實的所以現在就是這些護理人員他們說話他是一種雷霜而且這是"},{"start":22667.345,"end":22689.741,"text":"等於是平均值那有不同的第一個這是醫院的那可能醫院本身有不同的病房以外還有就是所以也有不同病房的狀況也有不同病房的狀況也有不同人班的狀況也有日班夜班的狀況我們現在只要問的是護理人員他現在被貼上一個標籤而這個標籤是從衛福部來的"},{"start":22692.103,"end":22713.198,"text":"衛福部告訴大家是說護理能源平均月薪有7萬請教有嗎我想這是醫院報出來的一個整個你要抽一點意願這是衛福部的粉絲專頁貼的那你現在要抽一點意願那個網站公開的大家都可以上去查如果醫院有不遵時的他可能就會有問題而且這個當時的目的不是說去比"},{"start":22713.998,"end":22737.893,"text":"當時的目的是希望說我們衛福會有沒有去查證護理人員如果說知道每一家醫院他的待遇是多少我們衛福會有沒有去查證我們衛福會有沒有去理解現在我怎麼感覺你好像站在知方的立場在講話我現在希望的是幫我們衛福人員來爭取應有當委員不應該被污名化我完完全全就是希望把醫護"},{"start":22739.034,"end":22759.386,"text":"跟著政府一直努力把醫護的工作環境弄好就是因為這樣子所以說才不應該用衛福部的粉絲專業來這樣做部長我時間有限我覺得你剛剛沒有辦法回答問題因為這是衛福部的粉絲專業貼出來的而你現在居然全部都推給醫院醫院的報告是資方的報告"},{"start":22761.054,"end":22782.126,"text":"講不客氣的,資方給你們的資料你有沒有去調查讓牢方,代表牢方的醫護人員他們都說他們沒有,那中間的落差在哪裡我們不停的在跟護理師公會或者公會做溝通我想不要讓我們的院長再退我們一定會很謙虛來努力改善本席很認真的跟您說"},{"start":22783.667,"end":22797.343,"text":"看得到這是你衛福部部長的態度但是很實在的話過去到現在本席也非常多的護理工會也來跟我澄清絕對他們的月薪沒有到這樣子甚至所謂的"},{"start":22799.212,"end":22823.39,"text":"五萬塊六萬五都沒有辦法達到一個月平均是四萬多塊而這樣的狀況其實他們是用他們的熱情他們的時間來去支撐但我們更希望的是給他們更好的勞動條件我最後請教一下三班互併比我們的草案修正本會期能不能提出來行政院的版本有關三班互併比我們現在是用獎勵的"},{"start":22828.462,"end":22849.171,"text":"那不管是醫學中心當初在選舉的時候是誰講說一定要入法才有效力因為這個當初在選舉的時間是誰講兩年拚入法 四年拚實行我們現在目前因為醫療的院所也需要一個會請能不能出來 我只問能不能"},{"start":22850.289,"end":22869.985,"text":"跟委員報告 三方會並比剛剛部長說我們先用獎勵的方式在制度完全形成之前獎勵的方式達到直接給護理人員再來就是獎勵達標的意願所以看起來是沒有辦法出來未來我們是朝向更完整的一個法制面不過我今天肯定委員這樣的質詢的內容"},{"start":22873.123,"end":22889.394,"text":"統計數字最怕的就是沒有達到這個數字的會覺得被剝奪了但是這個7萬塊他到底是中位數還是什麼方式計算應該要標示清楚他所說的是一年的收入除以12所以有很多固定跟非固定但是一定要說明清楚"},{"start":22890.228,"end":22904.575,"text":"收入高於7萬塊的護理人員不會有意見不過我覺得那個是比較少的比較多的人他是沒有辦法達到但是平均下來看他會達到接近這樣的數字但是還是要說明清楚那我透過今天這樣的方式請衛福部"},{"start":22904.963,"end":22930.66,"text":"要跟護理人員 護理師們充分說明清楚這個不是用這樣的數字來跟社會做一個假象的宣示而是大家要有一個共鳴 院長您講的完全就是本席為什麼要求部長你用粉絲專業帶風向讓外界標籤汙名其實這個是不道德的本席更希望的是看到真真實實的我們一起努力好 部長請回 院長感謝"},{"start":22932.099,"end":22936.91,"text":"本席現在要講的是過去到現在我擔任五年的立法委員"},{"start":22938.362,"end":22965.455,"text":"資歷沒有很深但是我每一次部會首長來我辦公室討論預算的時候我一定告訴他們一件事情預算當用則用 當審則審但我身為在野黨的立委我不會要馬而好 又要馬而不吃草該給的預算 合理的預算我們會支持但重點是預算要花在刀口上來 院長今天早上我也聆聽了您的報告也看了早上的一個質詢"},{"start":22967.059,"end":22986.17,"text":"很遺憾你還是提出了復議你一直強調說這是憲政給你的一個權利但是在今年的二月的時候賴清德總統召開的五院的院長的會議時候韓國瑜院長江啟臣副院長也代表立法院出席並且也都有釋出善意"},{"start":22986.67,"end":23009.628,"text":"包括韓國院長也特別提到說其實可以用追加預算的方式我們讓現在已經通過預算能夠先行如果真的有自愛難行或說真的有不足之處用追加預算的方式大家互相來溝通溝通溝通我們互相的來討論可以心平氣和對話但很顯然的你還是不願意接受所以還是提了復議"},{"start":23010.689,"end":23033.203,"text":"那也許明天才化法的詢答完畢之後再投票有可能這兩個復議案總預算跟才化法復議案也沒有辦法通過到時候你的任內還不到一年的任期已經五次復議失敗了院長你自己怎麼看?五連報的院長這樣子好看嗎?"},{"start":23034.17,"end":23053.2,"text":"所以我說過這是復譽最多的行政院但是復譽不是好不好看的問題而是我們身為憲政機關唯一可以提出復譽的機關來 院長 那我再請教如果說每一次你都講自愛難行每一次都復譽沒有通過那你還是好官我自為之"},{"start":23054.79,"end":23070.562,"text":"你說你沒有辦法做那你又不願意換別人來做你還是持續在這個位置上如果換了任何一位有沒有任何的政治責任五次的復議失敗你認為你自己有沒有任何政治責任如果換任何一位院長面對的是"},{"start":23071.443,"end":23095.709,"text":"破壞憲政分際的法案 侵害人民的法案 自然難行的法案議員長 立法院是多數決我們經過民主的程序 合法 合規 合憲的情況送出來議員長 理性的溝通 我現在只請教的是說如果復議再次失敗 明天投出來 兩個復議案都沒有辦法通過有沒有政治責任"},{"start":23097.281,"end":23112.38,"text":"我們的政治責任在於說復議案如果沒有通過之後我們如何來挽救這個國家不會因為憲政分立被破壞人民權利被傷害以及沒有經過充分討論違反程序正義的這種法案"},{"start":23113.081,"end":23134.035,"text":"能夠對國家上都經過充分討論院長你這樣講我就非常的遺憾說實在話本席今天真的是很心平氣和因為討論到預算我還是強調我的觀念喔我是認為當用則用當省則省大家把錢花在刀口上我會支持但是重點在於是現在你們提出來的預算年增率是超過10%"},{"start":23137.033,"end":23162.387,"text":"兩兆九千三百多億的預算是中華民國總預算史上最高比去年的預算還多增加了七百億比二零一六年馬政府時代要卸任的時候還增加了將近一兆的預算如果說有那麼多的預算中華民國政府史上最高預算你們都還認為說自愛難行的話那不是非常荒謬嗎我們必須再說明一次再來這個預算裡面有兩千八百零六億的新增去年沒有的"},{"start":23164.348,"end":23189.198,"text":"我剛剛已經講了 2000多億就是你年增10%我剛剛已經說了 2000多億是剛剛新增的10%但是整個total全部結束之後 還比去年多增加了700億這是不是事實但是你把它篩三減就 但你要扣掉這2806億啊那去年沒有的啊沒關係 你不想要這樣子 你故意想要模糊焦點"},{"start":23191.16,"end":23212.967,"text":"來 院長我們再來討論去年的數字你再扣掉院長你要故意要模糊焦點我現在再來討論的是另外一個部分民進黨現在執政黨說要來發動所謂的全台大宣講那也看到你會帶著部會首長一起來下鄉宣講這些預算都不會用到我們中央政府總預算嗎"},{"start":23214.557,"end":23240.45,"text":"宣講是誰要花錢我不應該在這裡談黨務但是民進黨有沒有你會不會出席民進黨有沒有權利在發動出席出席宣講 會嘛外界報導是說你每一場都要參加我早上有說過了 復一案的結果我們有必要向外界說明 必須執行如果有適當的時間機會 有任何邀請這個宣講 我們政府官員會不會出席"},{"start":23242.233,"end":23269.287,"text":"如果我需要政策一半跟著我一起做書也會出席如果需要政策一邊一邊做書一邊這些政府官有些不是民進黨籍也會出席所以這個不是參加民進黨活動而已看起來就是民進黨活動還是民進黨發起的還中央黨部規劃咧來最後這個錢是誰要出一個任何團體這個宣講的活動是誰要出錢行政院已經沒有這個經費在"},{"start":23270.768,"end":23298.889,"text":"出這個錢沒有這個經費所以說我們部會首長下鄉前往包括說院長要出發的時候會有隨戶多增加的這個警務的同仁的開銷支出誰要出錢誰要買單在參加非公務的活動的時候我們自有分寸公私分明是所以你要自己掏腰包你如果說有隨戶的話自己掏腰包需要的時候就是自己掏腰包是這樣子嗎確定去參加的活動是什麼性質"},{"start":23300.511,"end":23322.603,"text":"來最後院長呂秀蓮前總統也是民進黨籍他講過一句話中央編了那麼多預算但是綠營到底做了什麼沒有人有印象所以呼籲有權者應該要下面閉嘴別再講自愛難行癱瘓國家不如端出政績院長你認同嗎就是這樣子我有必要"},{"start":23325.683,"end":23354.521,"text":"再過兩個月你就是主二年你就是一年本席很由衷的希望看到當一年你的就職成績當然就是可以真真正正抬起重樓向國人報告而不是到最後只是變成說我提了幾個故意我搞了什麼罷免我增加了什麼樣的預算我覺得我們都要為台灣我們為整個市政報告我們已經報告了廖昌鑽的那些人為台灣下雨我們為整個市政報告"},{"start":23356.766,"end":23371.194,"text":"好 謝謝好 謝謝洪孟凱為的詢問 謝謝卓院長的答詢我們接下來請鍾嘉斌為人詢問"},{"start":23389.453,"end":23402.483,"text":"主席在場的行政團隊卓院長還有委員先進有請卓院長及主席長和財政部莊部長麻煩再請卓院長、主席長、財政部長總委員好院長好、主席長、部長好"},{"start":23415.748,"end":23432.125,"text":"院長今天我的質詢題目是稅收豐裕就能充實預算服務升級那麼補償台電要改善財務安定民生但是首先我聽了今天上午的詢答請看第一頁我發現有些在野黨的委員提出"},{"start":23432.145,"end":23432.786,"text":"按照這樣的數字看起來"},{"start":23458.767,"end":23474.315,"text":"凍結數提出最多的,就金額啦凍結數應該是在94年跟95年2005、2006那麼是陳水扁總統任內,誰當在野黨?那時候是陳水扁總統執政的是不是?對,是國民黨在野好,那麼為什麼您說這次是解凍條件最困難的一次呢?"},{"start":23481.547,"end":23509.722,"text":"因為很多的解凍的條件都必須到院會來經過報告之後才能夠解凍這在過去也是少見本席雖然只有不到十年的委員的經驗我也知道過去是前所未有但是一般民眾不懂他不曉得所謂的委員會解凍院會解凍是什麼所以希望未來行政院能夠多多的來強調讓民眾知道這些被凍的就告訴他結論就等同是被刪了啦院長好不好"},{"start":23510.805,"end":23518.215,"text":"是的 我們剛剛早上有說過解凍最後一筆都可能到年底11月12月而且早上看到有這樣的一個數字出現"},{"start":23519.011,"end":23541.305,"text":"前面一排的早上委員指出的跟暑季數暑季總數所列的數字是明顯有不同的大家計算是不一樣或者是錯誤這也是顯見這次為什麼總議員要提復議就是行政院在做決議的過程不只讓外界莫衷於事連行政院也要掌握立法院的意志好那接下來我問個比較輕鬆的簡單的問題請問院長國家財政和家庭理財有什麼不同"},{"start":23546.408,"end":23575.297,"text":"譬如說量出為入跟量入為出請問家庭理財是怎麼樣要不要請我們主席長告訴院長治大國如烹小鮮是來主席長你告訴我們院長量入為出跟量出為入誰是誰的原則上在家庭是要量入為出如果是國家的話有時候要你要看你的狀況但是我們現在經濟景氣好我們原則上現在都是量出為入"},{"start":23575.765,"end":23589.378,"text":"好 亮書為路 院長沒錯我們在審查行政院送來的總預算是預計行政院要做哪些事情 要花多少錢我們來決定我們要有多少的稅收如果稅收不足還要去舉債 是不是這樣子 院長"},{"start":23591.482,"end":23610.141,"text":"沒錯,是量出為入好,那我請教一下很簡單的問題小時候啊,不是啊,從以前我們有時候民眾揪團去旅行嘛譬如說要去洗溫泉啊,我出來主揪啊我們大概三十個人成行,一個人收一千塊,多退少補院長,你知道什麼叫多退少補嗎?"},{"start":23612.594,"end":23626.508,"text":"收多了以後就沒有用完的退 那少補呢少補是什麼意思 不夠了收了錢以後 但是支出不夠了大家再補一點 是的一般我們如果是揪團你會覺得是希望多退還是希望少補"},{"start":23627.981,"end":23653.248,"text":"當然是退多一點來啊對,就是多收一點,用剩的再還給大家嘛但是你知道一般人被揪是什麼想?主要是多退少不補啊通通揪著人自己負責現在呢,我是覺得有這樣的心態喔那麼,所以一般來講,一般已就來講會這樣但是我請教一下一般的經驗那麼什麼情況之下,休一團之後人家要休,你馬上要退給我,回來就馬上給你結算是不是兩種情況"},{"start":23653.968,"end":23682.527,"text":"一種是團員對這次糾團的服務品質很不滿意啊還有剩 哎呀 這開店喔 幾千塊再開開不夠兩百塊給大家穿這棟香花另外呢 就是怎樣對主糾的人沒有信心下次不參加了 是不是這樣子那請問我們國家的預算可以說今年的預算執行的我不滿意我明年呢 不參加了 可以這樣嗎在省預算的時候通常會設出很多的條件但是如果大家知道我們從概算到預算到各部會一定要行政院最後如總總結"},{"start":23683.706,"end":23706.205,"text":"是一段很漫長的時間到最後還要跟總統報告總統還會提出很多的意見這個預算報告之後到院會才會真正的決定所以如果我們用揪團的例子來講如果什麼情況之下團員說多的也不用退什麼情況對一個他覺得揪團的人很好還要再玩對不對那這時候多的部分他有兩種選擇下次少收一點"},{"start":23707.424,"end":23729.677,"text":"這次收一千 下次收八百就好或者說下次呢 品質提升 下次吃豪華餐 是不是這樣子好 所以同樣的道理 我們再請教一下如果是揪團的人 會造成多退的原因是因為高估了支出 還是低估了收入如果我去揪團 我會覺得跟他收一千塊 後來發現還要退是因為怎樣 高估了支出 還是低估了收入"},{"start":23730.538,"end":23752.908,"text":"可能對收入來看是支出來看是低估了是可能啊支出大概都會掌握得很緊有經驗的糾團組都不會有可能是什麼反應太熱烈本來要招三百個三十個來了一百個所以實際上很多費用就不用那麼多對不對所以我們來看一下我們過去的稅收哪些被低估政所稅 營所稅 營業稅 政交稅請問莊部長你可以告訴院長"},{"start":23756.269,"end":23775.735,"text":"我們之前的稅哪些被低估了我們的收入哪些被低估了跟委員報告我們在稅收的估測上的時候因為有時間上你直接告訴我哪幾個螢幕上出現的哪幾個被低估目前看起來第一個中所稅、營所稅、營業稅還有證交稅就是所列的那這些低估的原因我可以告訴大家為什麼會低估"},{"start":23776.996,"end":23803.439,"text":"第一個就是說在整個經濟裡面的發展因為我們的盈利事業在112年景氣超乎預期的好是不是這樣景氣超乎預期的好對部長練習用簡短的話回答我們是給民眾看的就是景氣超乎預期所以稅收讓我們沒想到收這麼多好那請教一下回憶一下院長您講一下之前我們在COVID-19期間2022年國家稅收比估計的好我們做了什麼事情"},{"start":23804.139,"end":23833.496,"text":"是不是我們行政院拿了一百億 一千億出來撥補勞健保 有沒有有沒有來平抑店家 有沒有 有嘛有沒有人拿一千億來幫忙付學雜費的學貸來幫忙做T pass 有沒有 有有沒有拿出一千四百一十七億來做經濟成果共享 每個人發六千塊所以當我們收入超過預期的時候政府會選擇提高我們的施政品質內容 對不對甚至會分享經濟成果給大家"},{"start":23834.036,"end":23854.411,"text":"好那現在來了那麼像這次我們收入超過預期那有沒有之前是用於疫後的振興但是現在呢我們國家的零售業流通經濟都很景氣您覺得是不是我們要考慮一下編列特別預算來照顧一線的醫護人員如果我們錢有多我們是不是會先來做這個事"},{"start":23855.655,"end":23880.909,"text":"我們的稅計剩餘如果達到一定的數字我們一定要想辦法充實於國家各種的建設跟國家的這個整體的實力那今年我們這樣初估下來大概可用的稅計剩餘會有三千億左右三千億左右那我希望我希望有一部分來強化國防有一部分來來照顧民生有一個部分"},{"start":23881.703,"end":23907.405,"text":"來照顧真正社會的弱勢我常常說那會不會考慮要償債還錢下一頁那個基本該做的事情 依法該做的這個都必須先完成好 那麼如果我們2024年我們超額的稅收有高達5283億經過精算後我們可以是不是會除了去用償債跟做這些新的計畫之外有沒有可能減稅在今年度 明年來減稅"},{"start":23909.235,"end":23936.283,"text":"減稅它是一個相當精密的作業那減稅到大家都能夠公平性的語錄金簪才有辦法達到真的讓全民共享如果只減到一部分的稅那這個減稅的目的可能我們要重新考量所以你傾向說如果是多收了多我們不退但是呢我們把明年的辦得更好是不是這個意思但是每年我們在報所得稅的時候我們一些免稅額的增加就是降低大家負擔是逐年都在進展的好"},{"start":23937.449,"end":23964.856,"text":"莊部長聽到了齁 院長說如果我們去年的稅收因為經濟景氣超過預期那明年我們正要跟人民收稅的時候可以考慮一下減輕人民的負擔好不好 可以嗎是的啊 是的好 謝謝來 我再請教院長 兩位請回齁那我接下來請經濟部長一起來齁來 請問 呃 院長你有沒有搭過廉價航空麻煩請經濟部長對不起廉價航空 廉價航空沒有 我沒有搭過 沒有搭過"},{"start":23965.376,"end":23991.826,"text":"我跟你講我搭過我為了呢要半夜要從越南趕到馬來西亞我不得不選擇那個航班紅眼班機只有聯航聯航的位置幾乎沒辦法傾斜然後沒有公餐而且他也不能幫你拖運行李好那請問你如果你跟家人旅遊你會選擇聯航嗎不會完全排斥看旅途的地點還有時間的長短那你覺得一般人民哪些人會選擇聯航就是"},{"start":23993.735,"end":24011.204,"text":"第一個可能會節省一下支出年輕 體力好 時間夠的人而且他希望能夠到一個地方馬上就能夠是白天可以下去做他應該有的活動因為搭聯航搞不好團會可以見 是不是這樣但是聯航他其實是挑旅客的"},{"start":24011.784,"end":24039.041,"text":"他不會勉強你來搭他你覺得你的條件可以搭他搭請問政府服務人民可不可以挑顧客不可以不可以 好 那我們來問一下來 請看下一頁行政院預算備三台東的鄉親辦護照停辦辦護照是不是政府要提供給人民的服務是的那今天預算備三台東的鄉親沒辦法享受要坐車來到台北辦你覺得這對偏鄉的人公平嗎因為我們聯合服務中心的費用"},{"start":24040.517,"end":24061.346,"text":"經費幾乎是全數被刪除好 那麼我們來看下一個癌篩 罕病 被凍結 病友的權益失去了保障您覺得政府有沒有義務要照顧全體的人民包括這些需要癌篩 罕見病的病友要不要提早篩檢會節省這個健保的支出這個是政府的政策 希望能夠照顧到這些"},{"start":24062.847,"end":24082.786,"text":"所以我的意思是說政府的施政不能像聯航一樣有人說這個我沒有情理啊我也不要去吃飛機上的餐啊很多預算我給你三一三你不用提供給我團費降低就好政府很多的預算支出不是只顧慮到少數不需要的人我們要照顧到更多需要的人您同意嗎"},{"start":24083.672,"end":24107.589,"text":"是的景氣好 人民的水準也會提高我們的服務量也會增加跟改善下一頁喔 電價的部分就是每個人都要用到電 是不是那請問一下 部長 你們告訴院長目前經濟部對於穩定民生用電和能夠維持台電營運您做了哪些努力 簡單的說有沒有調整我們要先從這個電的成本"},{"start":24110.911,"end":24125.529,"text":"這個發電成本來降低嘛然後第二個就是維護的成本能夠降低那你們是不是差別性的來調整電費大用戶高耗能的我們工業用電優先調家庭的民生的我們盡量不調是不是這樣的態度"},{"start":24126.592,"end":24151.216,"text":"這個因為院長有指示啦就是說照顧民生這個是第一嘛然後工業用電就是要不比這個其他的競爭的國家不能比他高嘛這兩個前提之下我們在努力好院長那現在台電出一個問題啦2024年累計虧損4200億負債比92%請問部長你曾經是一個成功的企業家醫療公司到這種情況是不是快要倒了"},{"start":24153.119,"end":24172.047,"text":"我們一定要優先趕快處理財務的現象所以行政院為了幫助台電能夠永續經營要補助台電一千億的預算現在被立法院刪掉了所以怎麼辦是不是就要被迫調整電費來營運2024年跟2025年我們各編了"},{"start":24176.431,"end":24194.825,"text":"各邊一千億最佳預算跟這個總政府總預算但是2024年的最佳預算沒有了沒有了一直沒有談到所以可能背後要調整電費它就是我們對台電用兩千億要來改善它財政體質的所以可能背後要調電費嗎那有沒有其他方法我看到一個過去一個例子來 下一頁"},{"start":24195.906,"end":24216.991,"text":"過去呢,離島用電虧損的都是台電吸收,根據離島建設條例第14條離島的發電成本比較高,但是台電按照島內本國的一般的用電收費費率以至於這個虧損台電自行吸收,但是依法要補償它,是不是這樣子?他現在還在追討啦,他說過去24年多來,大概累積1100億"},{"start":24220.132,"end":24233.06,"text":"請問院長部長有沒有報告這個事情台電打算依法來追討這筆因法應該辦的這個補償有沒有歷任的政府都希望用台灣本島內經濟力比較"},{"start":24235.417,"end":24261.445,"text":"優異的能夠去協助離島的居民的生活那過去有沒有補貼台電補償台電 過去都是用補台電來吸收有嗎 沒有 台電來吸收過去都是台電吸收因為水的部分有補償金門跟連江水公司有經濟部有補償它所以水公司有得到台電公司從來沒有好啦 那請問一下台電公司這個依法要補償的他現在說了 往下看"},{"start":24262.225,"end":24262.545,"text":"有沒有考慮過?"},{"start":24285.664,"end":24304.301,"text":"經濟部跟台電最近幾天提出的一個方式我想他們就是在財政無法健全得到政府撥補的情況底下在野黨說台積電有不到一成是政府的關股台積電去投資美國他都要追究了如果台電的民股說你依法政府要補償我對離島的這些電費補償那麼最後兩個結論告訴您"},{"start":24309.105,"end":24316.416,"text":"如果這一檔認為普發現金要訂特別條例是不是同時這個特別條例應該包含了降低稅務跟加強務同不同意"},{"start":24322.686,"end":24348.873,"text":"提早供應規準的法律責任予以這樣的程序院長可不可以指示台內的參議院政府要立法使用這些政策必須要有一個特別條例特別條例我們需要立法院能夠能夠合理的審議通過一個全民分享 奉獻的這個條例那我們才能進行是的好 那最後兩題就請院長指示相關部的總委好 謝謝好 謝謝鍾嘉斌委員的詢問謝謝主任長相關部會所長的備詢 謝謝"},{"start":24350.509,"end":24373.734,"text":"接下來本日登記最後一位葛如君委員請詢問謝謝院長有請卓院長麻煩再請卓院長"},{"start":24385.54,"end":24399.07,"text":"各位好院長好中華民國至今114年來至今只有18件復議案在您上任不到一年來就用了五次而且這一次還是歷史上第一次針對總預算的復議"},{"start":24402.008,"end":24425.224,"text":"面對我們的國父今年是四十一百年不知道你心中有什麼感想有沒有什麼話要想要對他說我們今天時間有限希望您可以想一下面對您這樣歷史留名的身份和資歷我想我與您相差甚遠但是有一件事情您我都一樣就是我們都是公僕我們都是在為人民服務"},{"start":24426.164,"end":24443.774,"text":"作為為人民服務我們也要感念人民願意將他們的血和錢交給政府來運用並且期待我們的政府能夠提供好的服務但是最重要的就是這個但是人民作為母親孩子跟媽媽要零用錢"},{"start":24444.96,"end":24465.037,"text":"一百塊去年九十五塊今年還多了五塊媽媽為了確保孩子沒有亂花說了其中三塊錢先扣掉一塊錢保留如果考試考的好的話就可以用明明最終的還是比去年更多但是呢小孩子突然大哭大鬧"},{"start":24466.138,"end":24478.513,"text":"沒有鉛筆盒啊這個鉛筆盒要一塊我沒辦法考試這個睡不著啊沒辦法睡覺啊這個枕頭不夠鬆軟要讓它鬆軟要一塊我沒有褲子啊這個褲子有點皺這個要燙平要一塊沒辦法出門啊院長您覺得這樣的小孩有道理嗎不乖該打"},{"start":24486.891,"end":24498.46,"text":"這小孩該打該打嘛 對不對所以我們現在不是要來打人我們不是要來打人我們理性的來討價 幹嘛 該打嘛我們現在沒有要用暴力在立法院 我們和平"},{"start":24499.571,"end":24526.772,"text":"但是呢不管要不要打我們都要來理性的討論怎麼花錢的嘛這小孩子到底在做什麼所以立院要幫民眾民眾就是我們的母親要仔細審視錢有沒有亂花嘛不然真的就要打了對吧但近年來呢政府有妥善運用這些人民的血汗錢嗎今天我們想要來代替人民不是要來打要來講要來問我們先有請教育部長"},{"start":24528.133,"end":24550.754,"text":"麻煩請教育部部長備訓台部長我想經過這麼多場的質詢您知道教育部去年跟今年的預算分別是多少嗎今年比較多還是比較少因為部長移動需要一點時間院長您要率先回應也可以您應該要非常清楚今年比較多還是比較少"},{"start":24552.247,"end":24576.604,"text":"今年比去年都多 多嘛 部長同意嘛那有什麼好哭的咧跟委員報告 雖然多了278億 大概278億但是這278億事實上是用來水電 學校的水電補貼還有我們優質評價這些幼兒園的經費就是說我們增加是因為有許多的政策要推動"},{"start":24577.664,"end":24605.194,"text":"那你們為什麼還要到處哭窮哭沒有錢我們先謝謝教育部有提供完整的數據數據非常清楚今年就是比去年的預算多扣除掉簡列跟凍結今年增加277.6億當然不含通山我直接幫你講636億我直接除以8我就算扣掉通山分配到教育部一樣還是比去年多什麼水電"},{"start":24606.834,"end":24629.85,"text":"漲價的是誰不做這個台灣的這個能源的多元化不弄核電廠拼命漲價的是誰我們不要去討論這個事實上你錢就是比之前多之前怎麼花的到底用到哪裡去了學習歷程爭議不斷什麼學習歷程變成學習歷程大師一份五塊十塊兩百塊五百塊全部都有"},{"start":24630.49,"end":24654.238,"text":"然後呢 到現在2025年了 上傳檔案容量最高只有10MB部長知道嗎 知道 對不對還有什麼學習履歷槍手啦 作弊啦我們的教育部次長還開罵 說家長幫忙作弊但是呢 有沒有解決 到底最終的原因是什麼到底要怎麼優化學習歷程 怎麼廢除 有討論嗎你們有用媽媽給的錢來好好的做事嗎"},{"start":24658.188,"end":24676.583,"text":"跟委員報告事實上我們也在做全國的一個巡迴的開獎學習歷程多元入學變多錢入學有沒有解決上傳的檔案容量只有10MB有沒有解決請你回答請部長回答有沒有解決"},{"start":24677.364,"end":24696.81,"text":"跟委員報告委員不能用少數的一些特例然後來說整個政策他的一個否認他的價值性謝謝您同意了其實你們就是沒有好好的花錢沒有好好的了解大家的需求把所有網路上的明面說成是特例好沒有關係謝謝有請國科會主委謝謝有請國科會主委"},{"start":24701.24,"end":24722.602,"text":"我一邊請教 請教主委去年跟今年的預算分別是多少今年比較多還是比較少國科會主委也需要一點移動的時間院長您可以先回答今年國科會預算比較多還比較少我們對科技預算今年支持的當然是比較多對嘛 那為什麼民眾到處聽到這個野山那個野山"},{"start":24723.263,"end":24749.273,"text":"到處都在講說科技研究沒辦法做了人沒有錢可以用我們要做的項目也比較多做的項目就要多的預算我們看數字要看項目啊事實上就是增加了將近一百億然後呢我們現在來看去年有沒有做得比較好你去年對不起院長你去年沒有做得比較好你今年要更多的錢有意義嗎正確嗎民眾不會痛嗎"},{"start":24750.922,"end":24772.574,"text":"委員剛剛說這是人民的血汗錢所以我們會用血汗來執行這筆預算我們是遵照也是遵照我們立法院委員的建議我們要加強我們的算力我們要增加我們在AI的這個延長能量不好意思我打斷主委我剛剛還沒有問你啦但沒關係我們去年算力排名幾名啊"},{"start":24774.293,"end":24792.293,"text":"26但是我們會增加你確定是26嗎你算過了嗎沒有關係大家算法不同我們去看其他國際排名我們很可能連前50名都排不上再來我們看到明明我們做的根本就不夠多也不夠好結果這是我們國科會的粉絲專業"},{"start":24794.474,"end":24823.39,"text":"在那邊講什麼國科會預算如果可能會影響約多少可能會造成多少影響去我想作為一個科學這個是確實的如果才化法按照大院通過的對不起主委我們做科學做報告做研究可以是用如果跟大約嗎你要不要為全國的科研人員做個示範是嗎我們是這樣做研究的嗎我們是這樣做報告的嗎"},{"start":24824.45,"end":24840.291,"text":"當然是這樣啊,如果是真的通過的話所以就是這樣的態度,人民會在意這麼科學、這麼理性的部會是您用這種態度來處理、來回答這是十四求四的精神嗎?我們這一頁就留在這裡,大家都會看得到"},{"start":24845.22,"end":24866.177,"text":"這個請問好我告訴我本來想要放過這一題我告訴主委我們直接聯絡國科會我們說請問這邊波紋到底有什麼具體的影響國科會從來沒有提出論述跟佐證告訴我們這是科學嗎這是科學嗎你現在提出來你現在每一條來說明這是科學嗎"},{"start":24867.324,"end":24884.346,"text":"如果真的刪掉這些預算的話我們所有的企劃當然都要刪哪些企劃要刪?要刪多少錢?院長你同意這樣的態度來主掌台灣的科技嗎?科學嗎?你同意嗎?同意或不同意?我同意我們用理性委員也是一個"},{"start":24885.007,"end":24911.417,"text":"科技理性的委員啦你剛剛說我們的PETAFLOW不夠嘛那你刪掉這個預算我們所知我們資料更差啊那能不能請院長答應我們索取這方面的資料請國科會完整的提供可以嗎他們可以提供啊我們認為財化法現在雖然大院通過但是它還是有一個補助程序院長不要浪費時間我們能不能索取資料國科會的立馬 請說明 完整說明不要在那邊汝果大約好不好 好有請經濟部部長"},{"start":24915.5,"end":24935.516,"text":"謝謝主委我想經過這麼多的質詢剛剛也有兩個前例了我相信部長應該也理解我想要問的就是您清不清楚經濟部去年跟今年的預算分別是多少今年比較多還是比較少報告委員經濟部114年度預算是2134億三讀三檢以後成為1097億"},{"start":24944.074,"end":24955.984,"text":"113年度法定預算1819億相較減少720億不好意思 部長我打電話給你去除掉台電的那1100億的三減到底預算是比較多還是比較少能用的錢有沒有比較多哪一個"},{"start":24960.106,"end":24977.517,"text":"去除掉1000億我們把它減劣總體經濟部的預算比較多還比較少我可以直接告訴你答案啦你們不願意給啦我直接告訴你們答案扣除掉台電的這個1000億事實上在委員會刪減的不到1%總體來講你們今年的預算還是比去年多"},{"start":24978.337,"end":24992.277,"text":"然後呢我們現在看到台積電現在要赴美了經濟部的部長院長一概不知說看直播才知道我們沒有這樣講喔委員我們沒有這樣講喔這個真的完全是對不起委員這個是媒體的這個"},{"start":24993.96,"end":25017.1,"text":"斷章取義喔我講的並不是這樣子喔我講的是說他沒有來送審但是你們都把他用紙圓取義怎麼可以這個樣子呢宣布的時間我們知道宣布的時間我們那天晚上要玩文字遊戲啦我們都回去看重播啦大家都很清楚我們不是文字遊戲的部位啦你們真的以為我們什麼都不知道嗎"},{"start":25017.56,"end":25022.803,"text":"所以你們什麼都知道嗎我們沒有要玩文字遊戲啦謝謝部長謝謝部長其實就是比去年還多啦我們有請速發部啦速發部的部長一樣謝謝謝謝院長不好意思"},{"start":25037.233,"end":25059.731,"text":"那一樣我們也讓這個各部會所長有一點時間那我的問題也一樣速發部今年的預算比去年多還是比較少我想問你清楚今年的預算比去年多多少經費多做多少事情非常清楚啦就是編列的比較多我們砍的也沒有比較多不管多做多少事情報告委員我們去年拿到是70億現在被刪除剩下51億"},{"start":25060.785,"end":25087.018,"text":"你這個數字為什麼那麼清楚你們不願意給啊你們為什麼不願意給我們索取資料你們不願意給啊你們完全你們的同仁交白券喔我們今天在副議案要做質詢你們完全交白券為什麼不提供資料部長你知道嗎我沒有好沒有關係我只是這樣講啦人家馬斯克用AI啦我們速發部如果連提供一個這樣的資料都沒有辦法做好我們怎麼有辦法相信你們便利的預算會好好花錢"},{"start":25088.318,"end":25112.406,"text":"結果來打詐打了一整年 我告訴我就只問部長您知不知道去年打詐我們的被詐騙金額最高是多少錢你知道嗎我們平均我們去年被詐騙金額最高那一天是多少錢一天多少錢我們一天啦去年我上任的時候大概是3到6億現在降到1到3億 目前是這樣子我報告部長也報告院長12月27號單日財損金額高達6億6千萬啦"},{"start":25117.828,"end":25129.523,"text":"我是建議這一天可能要作為苦難紀念日啊民眾真的被騙得很慘啦真的是希望啦行政院院長您可以好好的了解各個部會到底是怎麼花錢的謝謝部長您請回"},{"start":25132.011,"end":25155.583,"text":"所以我想回到行政院啦您是部會的頭部會如果花錢花得好民眾很支持我們立法院作為民意的代表的一個機關我們當然會希望可以來尊重各個部會可是我們剛剛看到有一大堆的問題啊有學習履歷啊有這個打造的成效的這個問題啊有各式各樣的這個產業"},{"start":25158.965,"end":25175.383,"text":"多元化不足的問題啊結果咧我們現在的行政院是搞一個複議老實說啦我們現在呢是完全沒有一個機制會讓政府停擺我們是完全不能理解你們現在這樣子一直去哭去鬧"},{"start":25177.113,"end":25196.111,"text":"到底是為了什麼我想您作為行政院部會的頭我們回到一開始的例子人民媽媽是作為拿錢出來的人你們現在翻桌不認母啦直接一整年是想要跟大家講這個你們去做這個巡迴你們有願意去講剛剛這些問題如何解決嗎"},{"start":25201.056,"end":25225.168,"text":"你們願意去講嗎我請問我們到各地去跟大家講地方建設跟大家講國家發展跟大家講我們這部預算在大院支持底下我們如何認真努力的來執行我們剛剛提的所有的問題沒有一個部會首長可以完整的回答我們為什麼要編更多的預算而且我們甚至已經編了更多的預算委員的問題不完整一個部會多了這些錢你要問他你比去年多做哪些事好"},{"start":25226.394,"end":25251.752,"text":"那我就先問了我們剛剛就是用這樣的一個機制只有一個簡單的問題我們甚至連去詢問到底你刪了多少到底你編了多少你今年跟去年比起來多多少錢可以用部會不願意回答這是您主管的部會嗎您知道嗎 您理解 您同意嗎我們對這次的審查預算我們最終立法院沒有一個宣讀刪減總數這個地方我們認為是史無前例的"},{"start":25255.154,"end":25265.286,"text":"你剛剛講的你確定是講的是刪減還是在講凍結全部都有過去的例子不管是2002年的680億的例子還是之前的凍結的例子立法院從來沒有宣讀凍結數"},{"start":25270.231,"end":25291.113,"text":"全部的例子在過去都有每一個跟你質詢的人都提過了結果你看都不看你還講說時空環境條件不同我告訴院長如果真的是這樣我們每年都要來重新證明一次1加1等於2最後我想要跟院長講一下AI真的可以幫助我們我們現在就"},{"start":25302.492,"end":25306.154,"text":"好 謝謝葛如軍委員的詢問也謝謝卓院長及相關部會所長 謝謝"},{"start":25309.435,"end":25335.87,"text":"好 報告全員委員會我們各黨團所推派的委員均已詢答完畢行政院所提中華民國114年度中央政府總預算之負議案我們審查完畢謝謝行政院左院長及各部會首長的列席說明我們今天的會議到此為止明天3月12日星期三上午9點我們繼續開會審查財政收支劃分法之負議案我們現在休息謝謝"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}