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劉部長有請部長早安 我們今天是內政部的業務報告我繼續跟你討論這個住宅政策這個我們中華民國的住宅政策的核心到底是什麼"},{"start":21.207,"end":41.201,"text":"內政部長有想法嗎根據住宅法上面的規範當然它可能是我們在中華民國的社會福利體系的一環但是它要透過住宅的形式來呈現出來而不是一般的這個補助事項所以住宅法非常強調要照顧弱勢所以其實是圍繞著社會福利為核心的這樣一個政策對不對那但是這樣子"},{"start":42.611,"end":59.171,"text":"搞住宅政策也不是一天兩天啦各個政黨執政等等都有這樣一個邏輯去執政但是結論是什麼呢結論是現在年輕人不分不生嘛不分不生最大的壓力還是因為房貸不見得買得起房子根據內政部我不一定完全同意啦根據內政部因為小子化全部把這個責任掛在社宅的部分的話你先聽我講完嘛"},{"start":63.015,"end":71.862,"text":"最新的住宅租金指數9月再創新高109.27比去年同期上漲2.14%連續7個月達108以上租屋負擔率顯然過高那內政部不動產資訊平台114年Q1全國平均房貸負擔率為44.53%又比去年同季相比上升0.52%以直轄市來講是50.88%按照World Bank世界銀行的標準超過30%其實就已經是負擔不合理"},{"start":90.748,"end":112.675,"text":"那超過50%就住在六都的人來講負擔當然更加沉重也因此啊這個剛剛部長也講圍繞社會福利政策為核心的這樣一個住宅政策具體來講透過住宅來呈現就是所謂的社會住宅那其實非常多委員其實跨會期跨黨派都已經長期的關心大家都在看賴清德總統的社會住宅的新辦計畫請問到底核定了沒部長"},{"start":117.096,"end":125.827,"text":"還沒社會住宅新辦計畫啦你是說送到行政院的部分行政院的部分大概合訂兩項其中一項還希望我們內政部再多做檢討"},{"start":126.946,"end":147.058,"text":"什麼時候會全部核定能不能給出具體的時間表我們現在在依照這個總統跟院長的指示在檢討當中因為社會住宅的興建除了土地或者是資金取得以外現在要加入一個氣候變遷的因素所以這個因素加進來以後可能對於社會住宅的興建會有一些必要的一個檢討的方向"},{"start":147.915,"end":174.911,"text":"好 我們就繼續等待社會住宅的計畫核定來 我今天要跟部長做一下政策討論啦就是說跨國比較 我剛剛第一個問題問你我們台灣的住宅政策的核心是什麼你講的是社會福利 確實這個發租補貼啊 對不對 設宅等等然後有嚴格的照顧弱勢為優先的這個取向這大家都很清楚嘛但其他國家的概念 譬如我們新加坡為例新加坡的住宅政策其實蠻清楚的主導的單位叫做建屋發展局 HDB"},{"start":175.831,"end":189.675,"text":"那它的整個住宅政策的核心其實就是主屋政策嘛也就是一個相對來講可負擔住宅可以在市場上有一定條件上面的一個特殊性市場的可以接受轉賣的這樣一個狀況那它的主屋政策有幾個條件比如說這個家庭優先啊這個有結婚的啊單身的話要35歲之後才能申請啊而且只能申請二手等等那另外有限制嘛它只有所謂的這個地上權嘛就是建屋的所有權"},{"start":204.04,"end":231.297,"text":"然後有五年的閉鎖期如果要出售也只能出售給符合主屋申請條件資格者嘛所以它其實是有一個非常完善的一個配套那麼使用期滿之後要歸還政府政府在依 可能都更啊 社區等等的需求來做更新補償或者是重建你可以看到它的政策邏輯是非常非常清晰的嘛我有一個單位 我有一個要完整的政策我其他包含都市計畫 身份認定等配套是圍繞了這樣一個政策來做處理"},{"start":232.438,"end":241.5,"text":"那你就可以看得出來人家有一定的成效那請問這個台灣有沒有打算這個在住宅政策上更進一步脫離社會福利的思維呢 部長好 感謝委員因為新加坡跟台灣不一樣在於他97%都是國有地嘛所以他才可以去發展用類似在台灣來講他就類似設定地帳權的做法來做這樣的處理那當然也是因為他"},{"start":260.973,"end":271.978,"text":"從這個1965年左右就開始全力發展所以他到目前的數量其實是非常足夠來支應所以他已經進到第二輪所謂的都更的這個狀況所以他才可以用這樣子不斷的輪替去買賣那在台灣來講因為這個都才剛起步生產量權也才剛起步十多年"},{"start":278.996,"end":292.616,"text":"所以加上國有地也不是很多所以要達成這樣的輪替其實是有困難但是未來在社會住宅的興建上面其實或許可以用這樣的方式來做混合搭配這也是我們現在目前也在研議的方向之一"},{"start":293.444,"end":320.026,"text":"所以我們現在內政部的立場是我們在參酌國際的案例的時候我們要逐步來做政策創新還是基本上因為認定國土民情完全不同所以我們基本上不予採納要繼續本來的邏輯所以剛剛所講的所以像類似這樣的一個森林地安全跟社會住宅混合的方式現在也是我們目前有在研擬的方式包含的抱怨的計畫裡面包含這一項都有繼續在討論因為就本席的了解當初社會住宅的興辦計畫一直沒有辦法遲遲核定某一些層面當然是擔心財政的問題嘛"},{"start":321.667,"end":338.024,"text":"對不對所以換言之傳統以社會福利為導向這樣一個住宅政策的邏輯現在顯然這個陳峰不管是總統也好或者是行政院院長也好也許他有不同的意見所以這個計畫其實不能合定嘛對不對那我們要看到的是如果要嘛"},{"start":338.735,"end":357.198,"text":"要繼續做社會住宅這件事情你就大刀闊斧的趕快去做因為畢竟開出的支票幾年幾十萬戶等等那你如果有困難要調整有別的顧慮的話那你至少要讓我們的社會大眾看到住宅政策的調整方向這樣大家才能夠了解說這個政府持續的在關心居住政策而不是形成住宅政策的真空嘛"},{"start":357.899,"end":385.221,"text":"則部長或者是署長有沒有什麼要補充的嗎我想大方向來講因為像這幾年的這一個房地產市場我們都知道其實接下來空屋率會再一次創新高因為這幾年出來的房子非常多所以在某一種形式上我們站在減少這個碳排的一個角度來講我們應該鼓勵更多的房子釋出來做這個出租宅所以這一個包租代管的部分我們現在目前已經把它"},{"start":385.808,"end":405.76,"text":"上調他的一個標準上調他一個標準戶啦所以我們希望也從另外一個角度去擴充但是直接興辦社宅這件事情就像我剛跟委員所報告的我們會用其他創新的方法像類似跟這個生態安全的房子去做一個混合的一個方式那也做這個VOT概念的方式讓民間來"},{"start":408.797,"end":430.803,"text":"來興辦來經營那這些事情我們都已經有在朝你一些方向那當然政院的方向如果定調以後我們會及早對外來全部做說明我剛剛問你也是大方向你談了很多執行的細節當然都很好你有你的專業但我要問的是大方向我今天之所以提這個是因為很多地方政府現在已經開始在思考除了社會住宅之外的其他解方嘛比如說桃園市政府台中市政府在研擬叫做所謂的青年可負擔住宅了解"},{"start":431.448,"end":451.074,"text":"那青年可負擔住宅請問中央現在有沒有人在做這樣研究有沒有相關的想法跟政策方向應該這麼說啦因為今天最關鍵還是在於你的你能不能脫離土地法民法相關的一個限縮因為對於土地來講土地若一旦是出售的你一旦要能夠收回"},{"start":451.553,"end":480.059,"text":"其實他相對上在民法在土地法上面有一些限制所以這一點會是我們在後續在考慮的重點今天不可能有時間討論到政策細節但我要問的是大方向也就是說現在地方政府拋出了這樣一個構想其實在網路上也好輿情的回應上來講也好其實很多年輕人對於這樣子的一個政策他心裡是有所期待的那當然嘛你現在談執行的問題就擔心說啊你法規的禁核啊等等啊中央地方不同調大家其實在觀察而且在在擔心的是這樣子一個事情"},{"start":480.439,"end":502.034,"text":"那我今天的質詢我主要就是要問你現在中央到底有沒有把這樣子的一個可負擔住宅的這樣一個政策納入你現在整個住宅政策的一個方向一個推進的計畫裡面 有沒有類似森林地安全住宅這個就是屬於可負擔的項目之一如果有那有沒有具體的期程跟地方政府對話的機制我是認為這個應該提早處理其實像桃園它已經放在"},{"start":503.231,"end":526.188,"text":"那個都市計畫桃園市的適應細則裡面那已經有跟我們在進行相關的溝通已經有在討論嘛 甚至有討論自治條例或什麼的對 像彰化也有在跟我們討論這個事情所以中央基本上不會反對地方政府很努力的來做創新跟往這個方向的思考不會 我們都會大家在一個可行的方式底下來支持地方政府做這樣的一些創新那中央"},{"start":527.624,"end":547.301,"text":"針對法規相關等等的有沒有提供一些相關的意見因為現在大家最擔心的是如果地方先走有一套完整的東西那中央萬一不同調呢對不對萬一不愉快呢對不對大家總會有這樣子的一個顧慮嘛會不會有這樣的問題各位委員報告其實過去像這個南投彰化雖然都有不一樣的做法但是我們到最後還是會尊重他們的一個方式啦"},{"start":547.799,"end":577.268,"text":"其實那個只是在建屋未來的認定上是有所不同的這個我希望喔那既然你講說其實政府是有這樣中央政府也有往這樣的方向來做思考那是不是請這個內政部這邊針對青年可負擔住宅中期住宅等等的相關你們目前做了哪些研究目前規劃的一些方向有沒有一些預計的一個期程提供一份完整的資料來做對接嘛然後避免說也許地方跟中央默契不一樣好事又變壞事我是擔心這個事如果大家方向其實是一致可以來溝通一起來促成這件事情"},{"start":577.728,"end":594.424,"text":"那這個政策它才能夠達成一定的效果嘛所以我再次提醒人家新加坡是有一套完整的政策核心邏輯那現在既然涉財的部分你可能要有修正你當然還是會繼續蓋我不會否認這個事情但如果要有所修正我們也要看到另外一個核心政策的形成跟相關配套的安排可以嗎好 謝謝署長 謝謝部長辛苦了好 謝謝委員"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}