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請關務署彭署長委員好博署長你先前的很多表現都很不錯那麼在關務的這個部分把關的部分你們確實做到可以說滴水不漏"},{"start":31.837,"end":35.884,"text":"不過還是有相當大的破口而這個破口"},{"start":37.116,"end":64.069,"text":"竟然是毒品那這一點讓我覺得這個是非常可怕的事情現在的毒品已經不是早年的海洛因啦這些過去常被吸食的現在很多都是新時代新類型比方說現在最厲害的這一種叫伊托蜜子這無色無味那麼它"},{"start":65.219,"end":84.451,"text":"不但已經網路化的銷售而且他已經滲透到我們年輕這一輩那根據教育部他們所委託國建署他們共同的查估裡面他們查估的結果"},{"start":85.211,"end":98.223,"text":"在高中職生大概我們全國55萬高中職生裡面竟然有高達百分之"},{"start":102.494,"end":122.885,"text":"6.5是有在使用電子煙而電子煙就是會用到這個所謂的喪屍煙彈依託米子那國中生數字大概一半那大概一半的話大概也有一萬七千位學生也就是"},{"start":126.815,"end":136.449,"text":"這種喪屍煙彈已經大量年輕化滲透到我們年輕這一輩加起來國中生高中生大概有五萬兩千位很可能涉入這個"},{"start":139.276,"end":163.896,"text":"上司煙彈的稀釋那上司煙彈在查緝方面我們關務署我認為責無旁貸那關務署你們在前幾年民國110年你們建置了這個人工智慧輔助氣絲系統你們花了一億多元建置這個系統"},{"start":165.305,"end":178.136,"text":"可是這個系統竟然我把它調這個數字出來以後你們比方說你們當年判讀了4256萬件當年判讀4256萬件行李竟然顯示出說裡面這個行李裡面有可疑毒品竟然顯示高達522萬件"},{"start":195.017,"end":200.499,"text":"竟然高達522萬件那522萬件被你們顯示警鈴大響大家神經緊繃 大家趕快過來針對查獲的這個疑似有毒品的行李結果522萬件毒品裡面"},{"start":218.786,"end":239.771,"text":"竟然只有124件有124件是真的有毒品天啊這一個AI系統花費上億元建制的AI系統他竟然判毒的錯誤率高達99.989%"},{"start":246.857,"end":274.212,"text":"有這麼烏龍的系統嗎所以我認為這個系統你們看要想辦法怎麼去改善因為現在還在用所以你的看法我認為對於毒品的查緝我們引進AI系統當然很好可是你引進的是什麼樣的AI"},{"start":277.853,"end":304.44,"text":"會不會這個系統處理建制的這些官員有什麼官商勾結嗎官商勾結A百姓I不是這樣嗎要不然怎麼有這麼荒唐的事情你看法呢 有什麼方式來改善對於這個毒品的判讀"},{"start":305.655,"end":316.649,"text":"是 如同委員說的我們目前AI輔助判讀的毒品這個系統真的目前的誤判率會比較高高很多 沒有錯那我們是跟公研院合作跟公研院是應該是公研院是跟公研院合作的"},{"start":325.741,"end":348.801,"text":"那這個我更訝異這我更訝異那他們現在有提出什麼改善的方式嗎跟委員報告我們現在查賭的方式我們不是真這AI它不是說針對毒品的種類就直接就判定說它是毒品我們目前第一階段是用藏匿的方式就是我們會把過去藏毒品的方式來讓AI來去學習"},{"start":350.823,"end":363.991,"text":"所以目前的錯誤率會比較高是沒有錯那我們已經都在改善當中了在改善當中我們過去有那個氣毒犬我們過去用X光的方式那個也是"},{"start":365.273,"end":387.893,"text":"履建大工啊那這些系統我們也應該訪國外國外他們在X光的系統上面他們在企圖權這一部分他們都屢有斬獲所以我不曉得你們這一部分到底做的怎麼樣傳統的這個方式還有還有其實有經驗的官務員"},{"start":389.645,"end":405.266,"text":"或者警方的人員其實有經驗的光是看行李大概的情況還有尤其出關的時候要提領行李的人那個神色那也是一個很重要的判讀不是嗎"},{"start":405.999,"end":433.491,"text":"是委員講的都沒有錯那個企圖犬我們也有44組的企圖犬就是一隻狗配一個人我們有44組那成效也不錯那X光的判毒方面我們是用高風險去篩選可疑的貨物那有密報跟沒有密報的我們海關查獲自行查獲的比例就是沒有密報自行查獲的比例都高達9成以上我們一年大概都會查獲到500件的一個毒品"},{"start":435.247,"end":457.615,"text":"喪屍病毒也是我們查緝的重點我剛剛講的你這一個AI系統你竟然總判讀量4256萬件竟然他有高達520萬件是出現說這個判讀這個是有毒品然後就警示燈大亮警鈴大作大家緊張"},{"start":460.02,"end":476.5,"text":"真的有520萬件的話那真的是要大緊張了這問題是當他判讀錯誤錯誤率這麼高的時候是對我們關務署對所有我們政府官員的造成困擾"},{"start":477.501,"end":501.303,"text":"還有微信掃地啊然後對於被檢查行李的我們出入關的國人那也是多難堪的一件事不是這樣嗎好啦那你說這個要加強要改善我相信公園院他有那個能力啦你們要加緊連絡但是你們每年啊又編六到七千萬這你們說還要再增加辨識"},{"start":503.988,"end":529.635,"text":"的這些禁品比方說肉類製品 電子菸 加熱菸或者是說塵困的紙操或者你要辨識特定農產品你們大概加了五項說要去增加辨識這幾項你光一項毒品你就誤判率這麼高了那你何來的信心"},{"start":531.007,"end":559.451,"text":"加這些錢 增加附帶的這些設施那麼到底情況會是怎麼樣你這個布置的這個成效到現在也沒有看你提出任何的報告做好了沒 你說要增加這五項對鈔票 對電子菸對這個特定農產品還有對肉製品那這個部分你們用了沒 這一套系統"},{"start":560.431,"end":588.468,"text":"報告委員這也是在我們次世代人工這個輔助判讀系統裡面會去做這是一個計畫那我們之所以會把這些物品列為這是AI輔助判讀的一個項目最主要是海關查緝的項目重點項目實在非常多那人力非常有限所以我們是盡量說以後要朝智慧科技的查緝的方式去努力所以才會把這些重點項目"},{"start":590.829,"end":618.581,"text":"但是你們改善這個AI判讀這個速度太慢了我剛剛講的這個這幾年來你們我看到也沒什麼誤判率也沒什麼改善啊然後現在又看到你新編的預算每年這兩年你們每年都要花七千多萬六千多萬那去增設這個AI的輔助系統那又要增加判讀這五大項"},{"start":620.271,"end":627.078,"text":"所以我認為你們確實要加緊不但要加緊建制"},{"start":628.581,"end":649.662,"text":"而且要跟工研院專業的技術請他們要更用心在這一塊他不要說這個金額不大 一億多現在要增加的複設的這幾項也才7000多萬對工研院而言 他們認為這個小case就對了"},{"start":652.285,"end":656.935,"text":"所以那樣子的心態下才會有誤判率這麼高誤判率高達99.99989"},{"start":663.827,"end":689.118,"text":"這個大概是世界級的大烏龍你回去好好改善啦謝謝委員的指導阿部長也請你要多盯一盯關務署好不好跟委員補充修正一下中科院那邊我是口誤那個是中山科學研究院我們跟中山科學研究院合作跟中山科學研究院他確實比中研院他"},{"start":690.987,"end":706.39,"text":"抱歉抱歉 我以為他確實比龔岩岳差了一些啦是是好 謝謝謝謝王世堅委員OK 謝謝接下來請陳育珍委員發言 謝謝謝謝主席 請這個財政部長"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":740,"blocks":[["王委員世堅：（11時32分）謝謝主席，我請關務署彭署長。"],["主席：好，請關務署彭署長。"],["彭署長英偉：委員好。"],["王委員世堅：彭署長，你先前很多表現都很不錯啦！在關務把關這部分，你們確實可以說做到滴水不漏，不過，還是有相當大的破口，而這個破口竟然是毒品！這一點讓我覺得是非常可怕的事情。現在的毒品已經不是早年的海洛因等過去常被吸食的種類，很多都是新時代、新類型。比方說最厲害的這一種，叫做依托咪酯，無色、無味，它不但已經網路化銷售，而且已經滲透年輕這一輩。根據教育部委託國健署共同查估的結果，在全國大概55萬高中職生裡面，竟然有高達6.5%使用電子煙，而電子煙就可能會用到這種所謂的喪屍煙彈──依托咪酯；國中生的數字大概一半，也有1萬7,000位學生。也就是說，這種喪屍煙彈已經大量年輕化、滲透年輕這一輩，國中生、高中生加起來，大概有5萬2,000位很可能涉入喪屍煙彈的吸食。","在喪屍煙彈的查緝方面，我認為關務署責無旁貸。關務署在前幾年、民國110年建置了人工智慧輔助緝私系統，你們花了一億多元建置這個系統。可是我調了數字出來，發現你們當年判讀了4,256萬件行李，顯示行李裡面有可疑毒品者竟然高達522萬件！522萬件顯示出來，警鈴大響，大家神經緊繃、趕快過來查看疑似查獲毒品的行李，結果522萬件行李裡面竟然只有124件有毒品！124件行李中是真的有毒品。天啊！這個AI系統，花費上億元建置的AI系統，判讀的錯誤率竟然高達99.989%！有這麼烏龍的系統嗎？所以我認為你們要針對這個系統想辦法，看看怎麼改善，因為現在還在用！你的看法呢？我認為對於毒品的查緝，引進AI系統當然很好，可是你們引進的是什麼樣的AI啦？會不會處理、建置這個系統的官員有什麼官商勾結？官商勾結「A」，百姓「哀」，不是這樣嗎？要不然怎麼有這麼荒唐的事情？你的看法呢？有什麼方式可以改善對毒品的判讀？"],["彭署長英偉：如同委員說的，目前AI輔助判讀毒品系統的誤判率真的比較高，而且高很多沒有錯。我們是跟工研院合作……"],["王委員世堅：跟工研院？"],["彭署長英偉：是跟工研院合作的。"],["王委員世堅：喔！這點更令我訝異。那他們現在提出了什麼改善方式嗎？"],["彭署長英偉：跟委員報告，關於現在的查堵方式，這個AI系統不是針對毒品種類直接判定是毒品，第一階段是研判藏匿方式，我們會拿過去藏毒品的方式讓AI學習，所以目前錯誤率會比較高沒有錯，但是都已經在改善當中。"],["王委員世堅：在改善當中？過去有緝毒犬啊！還用X光方式調查，也是屢建大功啊！這些系統也應該仿照國外，國外在X光系統、緝毒犬這些部分都屢有斬獲，不曉得你們到底做得怎麼樣，我是指這種傳統方式。還有，其實有經驗的關務員或警方人員，光靠看行李的大概情況，尤其出關時行李提領人的神色，那也是很重要的判讀方式，不是嗎？"],["彭署長英偉：是，委員講的都沒有錯，我們有44組緝毒犬，就是一隻狗配一個人員，有44組，成效也不錯。在X光判讀方面，我們是用高風險篩選可疑貨物，包含有密報跟沒有密報者，其中由海關查獲，也就是沒有接獲密報、自行查獲的比例高達九成以上，一年大概都會查獲大概五百件毒品，喪屍毒品也是我們查緝的重點。"],["王委員世堅：如同我剛剛講的，你們這個AI系統，總判讀量4,256萬件，竟然有高達520萬件判讀為有毒品，然後就警示燈大亮、警鈴大作、大家緊張，若真有520萬件的話，那確實要大緊張啦！問題是當判讀錯誤率這麼高的時候，是對關務署、對所有政府官員造成困擾，還有威信掃地啊！對於被檢查行李的出入關國人也是多難堪的一件事，不是這樣嗎？","好啦！你說要加強、要改善，我相信工研院有那個能力啦！所以你們要加緊聯絡。但是你們每年又編列六到七千萬、還要再增加辨識違禁品，比方說肉類製品、電子煙、加熱菸、鉅額成綑紙鈔，或者要辨識特定農產品，你們大概加了5項，說要增加辨識這幾項。欸！光是對毒品這一項，誤判率就這麼高了，你何來的信心啊？加這些錢、增加附帶設施，到底情況會怎麼樣？對於相關布置的成效，到現在也沒看到你提出任何報告。做好了沒？你說要增加這五項，對鈔票、對電子煙、對特定農產品、對肉製品辨識，那麼這套系統你們用了沒？"],["彭署長英偉：報告委員，在次世代人工智慧輔助緝私判讀系統會做，這是計畫。我們之所以會把這些物品列為AI輔助判讀的項目，最主要是因為海關查緝重點項目實在非常多，人力卻非常有限，我們以後要儘量朝智慧科技查緝的方式努力，所以才會針對這些列入重點項目。"],["王委員世堅：朝向數位科技查緝是對的，但是你們改善AI判讀的速度太慢了！如我剛剛講的，這幾年來，我看你們的誤判率也沒什麼改善啊！現在又看到你們的新編預算，這兩年你們每年都花七千多萬、六千多萬增設AI輔助系統，又要增加判讀這五大項。我認為你們確實要加緊啦！不但要加緊建置，而且要跟工研院研討專業技術，請他們更用心在這塊，不要認為金額不大、一億多，現在要增設、附設的這幾項也才七千多萬，對於工研院而言，可能是小case就對了，在那樣的心態下，誤判率才會那麼高，誤判率高達99.99989%！這大概是世界級的大烏龍，你回去好好改善啦！好不好？"],["彭署長英偉：好，謝謝委員的指導。"],["王委員世堅：部長，請你多盯一盯關務署，好不好？"],["彭署長英偉：跟委員補充、修正一下，工研院我是口誤，是中山科學研究院，我們跟中山科學研究院合作。"],["王委員世堅：跟中山科學研究院？"],["彭署長英偉：是。"],["王委員世堅：喔！它確實比工研院……抱歉，它確實比工研院差了一些啦！謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝王世堅委員。","接下來請陳玉珍委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":92,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-20-6","speakers":["林思銘","王鴻薇","李彥秀","徐欣瑩","羅廷瑋","陳超明","許宇甄","林德福","吳秉叡","賴士葆","郭國文","賴惠員","顏寬恒","鍾佳濱","李坤城","王世堅","陳玉珍","黃國昌","羅明才","黃珊珊","楊瓊瓔"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-11-05"],"gazette_id":"1149201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1149201_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期財政委員會第6次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查「使用牌照稅法」29案：（僅詢答）一、行政院函請審議、本院委員邱鎮軍等19人、委員陳\n超明等18人、委員羅明才等20人、委員廖偉翔等19人、委員楊瓊瓔等27人、委員許宇甄等22人、\n委員邱若華等17人、委員林俊憲等26人、委員王鴻薇等19人、委員李彥秀等16人、委員蘇清泉等\n18人、委員徐欣瑩等24人、委員郭昱晴等19人、委員王美惠等19人、委員李坤城等18人、委員羅\n廷瑋等17人、委員郭國文等18人、委員吳沛憶等17人、委員葛如鈞等16人、委員沈發惠等17人、\n委員林思銘等22人、委員賴士葆等25人、委員黃健豪等20人分別擬具「使用牌照稅法第五條條文\n修正草案」等24 案；二、本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「使用牌照稅法第五條及第七條條文修正草\n案」案；三、本院委員廖先翔等17 人擬具「使用牌照稅法第五條及第三十八條條文修正草案」\n案；四、本院委員牛煦庭等17人、委員鍾佳濱等16人分別擬具「使用牌照稅法第七條條文修正草\n案」等 2 案；五、本院委員廖偉翔等 17 人擬具「使用牌照稅法第七條及第三十八條條文修正草\n案」案","agenda_id":"1149201_00001"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}