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你剛說代後管理很重要 要拿來自助嘛那我就問你嘛 現實上有落實嗎因為你一直在迴避一個最根本的問題啊我們的政府推出了各式各樣的政策有囤房稅2.0結果呢 結果空汙率持續上升空汙數持續上升我當年2023年就講了你們推的沒有用"},{"start":442.555,"end":470.548,"text":"當然要檢驗客觀看出來的數字就是這樣星期二2.0要協助購屋者很多年輕人現在在問的事情是什麼是真的在協助他們還是更多的錢到了不動產市場房價越炒越高他們的主觀感受我當然要用客觀數字來呈現呈現出來的結果就是這個樣子他們的主觀感受沒有錯"},{"start":474.161,"end":489.946,"text":"他們要看的不是財政部啊一樣照本宣科講的那個內容大家要看的是實際的效果到底有沒有效果讓我們變得比較好還是讓我們變得比較不好政府推薦車的目的不就在這裡嗎是要聽你們站在那邊照本宣科嗎"},{"start":508.103,"end":534.606,"text":"你們到目前為止啊 針對新興安上路到現在因為 卓榮泰自己對社會講要用其他的方式來處理啊那我聽了以後我就覺得很有意思啊如果本來做得很好幹嘛用其他的方式你就繼續這樣幹就好啦連卓榮泰自己都知道有問題啊這才要修正嘛才要用其他的方式來處理嘛"},{"start":536.089,"end":551.031,"text":"院會質詢的時候也有委員問他你新清安要繼續搞嗎他看起來是沒有要繼續搞啦因為他知道問題嚴重啦他說要用其他的方式啊財政部會建議行政院繼續搞新清安嗎 會嗎"},{"start":553.155,"end":566.584,"text":"跟委員報告新親愛目前指引狀況是要到115年7月31號當然在時間戒指之前我們會重新再檢討 對不用等到時間戒指之前啦現在效應都出來了啦現在效應都出來了有多少年輕人因此墜入了更深更重的負擔政府的承諾根本是在畫大餅這就是你們制度的成效"},{"start":585.84,"end":615.127,"text":"財政部如果覺得我說的不對 那沒有關係啊拿出具體的數字來反駁我啊拿出具體的數字來告訴全國的年輕人啊我們的政策方向正確啊我們做得非常的棒啊我財政部部長一定會告訴卓榮泰這件事情一定要繼續幹你會給卓榮泰這樣的建議嗎我想這個部分我們會繼續檢討 慢慢研議我已經知道你要說什麼了啦"},{"start":618.84,"end":619.443,"text":"好 我們謝謝黃國昌委員"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":867,"blocks":[["黃委員國昌：（12時2分）謝謝召委，麻煩有請部長。"],["主席：請莊部長。"],["莊部長翠雲：委員好。"],["黃委員國昌：部長好。2023年夏天，在凱道上有一個非常重要的公民活動，那場活動發起的人，我是其中之一。2023年夏天，頂著酷暑，那個時候在凱道上的年輕人提出了二個重要的訴求，一個是司法正義，當然過去這幾年司法正義成為笑話。第二個是居住正義，當年我們大力倡導囤房稅跟空屋稅，政府說他聽到了，然後推出了所謂的囤房稅2.0。這個囤房稅2.0，當初我看了這個版本以後，就曾經預言過，這個囤房稅2.0，財政部所推出來的版本，是沒有辦法達成成效的，這是我當年的預言，公開資料通通都有，這不是在唱衰政府，這是提出示警。不過行政院還是堅持要通過行政院的版本，那個時候民進黨的委員佔多數，也順利的三讀通過了行政院的版本。好，三讀通過了，在民主國家，我們在國會當然是服膺多數的決定，但多數的決定也要接受事後的檢視。關於囤房稅2.0，部長你覺得有達成釋出空屋、減少囤房的政策目標嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：跟委員報告，這一次房屋稅2.0，我們有幾個基礎，還是要再跟委員報告，第一個原來是縣市歸戶，這一次是全國歸戶……"],["黃委員國昌：不好意思喔，因為我質詢的時間有限，我不需要你再告訴我你們規範了什麼內容，你們規範的內容我都很清楚，我現在問的是成效的問題。囤房稅2.0，你們那時候說有包括空屋稅在裡面，那我現在的問題很簡單，對釋出空屋、釋出空屋沒有人住的房子，房子是拿來住的，房子不是拿來炒的，也不是拿來囤的，對於釋出空屋這樣的政策目標有達成嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：因為今年是第一年實施，到5月底為止，目前相關的數據，我們一直在統計當中，希望……"],["黃委員國昌：是，統計以後的結果咧？"],["莊部長翠雲：我們要去做回饋，看看當時政策的……"],["黃委員國昌：是，統計以後的結果呢？"],["莊部長翠雲：目前還在統計中。"],["黃委員國昌：目前還在統計，來……"],["莊部長翠雲：對，第二個就是房屋稅的稅收也成長了……"],["黃委員國昌：來，我先秀給你看啦！來、來、來，你說你還在統計當中，你們回去慢慢統計啦！空屋率9.79%，過去六年最高；囤房稅2.0三讀後，空屋率持續上升。我完全都是按照官方的資料，我完全都是按照官方的資料，這是NGO團體合作，大家做出來的結果。NGO做得出來，我們的財政部現在為了閃躲問題，回去還要統計喔？還是他做的數字不對？"],["莊部長翠雲：沒有，這個部分我們目前正在統計當中，我們按照個別的狀況來做分別的統計。"],["黃委員國昌：是嘛，你一樣在講空話，所以我具體的請教你，你看上面全部都是官方公布的數字啊，全部都是官方公布的數字，我現在告訴你，但你迴避問題、閃躲問題，說你要回去研究？！NGO把數字都亮出來了，囤房稅2.0三讀通過以後，空屋的數量與空屋率持續的上升，這個數字不對嗎？有達成政策效果嗎？","第二個，沒關係啦，你們回去統計要多久？一個禮拜夠不夠？還是要再統計一年？"],["莊部長翠雲：不會，我覺得……"],["黃委員國昌：一個禮拜夠不夠？"],["莊部長翠雲：我們一個禮拜以內把它分析出來。"],["黃委員國昌：一個禮拜之內，把財政部的數字交出來，可不可以？"],["莊部長翠雲：可以。"],["黃委員國昌：可以，好。","第二個新青安，兩任行政院長大力宣傳的新青安，財政部覺得成效如何？"],["莊部長翠雲：新青安確實幫助了沒有房屋的青年朋友們購得房屋，這個部分確實有它的成效。"],["黃委員國昌：是幫助他們，還是讓他們陷入更深的深淵？"],["莊部長翠雲：我想這個部分……"],["黃委員國昌：新青安上路以後，房價指數漲多少，你知不知道？"],["莊部長翠雲：房價上漲有諸多的因素。"],["黃委員國昌：是。我現在只問你，新青安上路以後，房價指數漲多少，你知不知道？"],["莊部長翠雲：就我所知，大概有10%左右，10%、15%。"],["黃委員國昌：12.3%。"],["莊部長翠雲：對。"],["黃委員國昌：12.3%。我們在許諾年輕人居住正義的時候，要讓他買得到、買得起，要讓他租得到、租得起。過去大家在關注的是什麼，他們在關注的就是空屋有沒有釋出來？是不是繼續有囤房的現象？房價是不是繼續攀高？房價所得比是不是繼續惡化？這個才是讓人民，特別是年輕世代最深刻的感受，這是他們最深刻的感受，不是聽你部長上來照本宣科啊！房價指數上漲12.3%，部長你覺得有實現居住正義的理念嗎？有嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：跟委員報告，居住正義所採取的手段有多種。"],["黃委員國昌：是。"],["莊部長翠雲：新青安是其中協助民眾買房，包含……"],["黃委員國昌：所以我才問你，你認為新青安是真的在幫助他們，還是推他們進入更痛苦的深淵？我請教你這個問題嘛！"],["莊部長翠雲：購屋者他要從財務上來做考量，銀行在貸款的時候，貸前的審核以及貸後的管理都需要做，包含他的所得、支出，銀行都會作考量……"],["黃委員國昌：銀行貸後管理跟房價上漲有什麼關係？"],["莊部長翠雲：貸後管理就是他要做自住使用。"],["黃委員國昌：是。"],["莊部長翠雲：對，而且他必須要去……"],["黃委員國昌：所以你的意思是說，現在因為銀行貸後管理不好，有很多新青安被拿來炒房？"],["莊部長翠雲：貸後管理是讓他一定要自住使用，不能夠出租，也不能夠做人頭。"],["黃委員國昌：是，那你覺得有達到這個目標嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：目前來說，銀行都在做這方面的清理啊！"],["黃委員國昌：是，所以我問你，你覺得有達到這個目標嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：您的目標是指……"],["黃委員國昌：不是啊，你剛說貸後管理很重要，要拿來自住嘛！"],["莊部長翠雲：對、對。"],["黃委員國昌：那我就問你，現實上有落實嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：現實上……"],["黃委員國昌：因為你一直在迴避一個最根本的問題，我們的政府推出了各式各樣的政策，有囤房稅2.0，結果呢？結果空屋率持續上升，空屋數持續上升，我當年2023年就講了，你們推的沒有用，當然要檢驗嘛！"],["莊部長翠雲：可以。"],["黃委員國昌：光看出來的數字就是這樣嘛，新青安2.0要協助購屋者，很多年輕人現在在問的事情是什麼？是真的在協助他們？還是更多的錢到了不動產市場，房價越炒越高？他們的主觀感受，我當然要用客觀數字來呈現啊，呈現出來的結果就是這個樣子，他們的主觀感受沒有錯啊！他們要看的不是財政部一樣照本宣科講的內容，大家要看的是實際的效果，到底有沒有效果？讓我們變得比較好，還是讓我們變得比較不好？政府推政策的目的不就在這裡嗎？是要聽你們站在這邊照本宣科嗎？","到目前為止，你們針對新青安上路到現在，因為卓榮泰自己對社會講，要用其他的方式來處理我聽了以後就覺得很有意思，如果本來做得很好，幹嘛用其他的方式，就繼續這樣幹就好啦！連卓榮泰自己都知道有問題了，所以才要修正嘛！才要用其他的方式來處理嘛！院會質詢的時候也有委員問他，新青安要繼續搞嗎？他看起來是沒有要繼續搞啦，因為他知道問題嚴重了，他說要用其他方式。財政部會建議行政院繼續搞新青安嗎？會嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：跟委員報告，新青安目前執行狀況是要到115年7月31號，當然，在時間截止之前我們會重新再檢討。"],["黃委員國昌：不用等到時間截止啦，現在效應都出來了，有多少年輕人因此墜入了更深、更重的負擔？政府的承諾根本是在畫大餅，這就是你們制度的成效啊！財政部如果覺得我說的不對沒有關係，拿出具體的數字來反駁我，拿出具體的數字來告訴全國的年輕人：我們的政策方向正確，我們做得非常棒，我財政部部長一定會告訴卓榮泰這件事情一定要繼續幹！你會給卓榮泰這樣的建議嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：我想這個部分我們會再做檢討……"],["黃委員國昌：繼續檢討、慢慢研議，我已經知道你要說什麼了啦！"],["主席：好，謝謝黃國昌委員。","接下來請羅明才委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":92,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-20-6","speakers":["林思銘","王鴻薇","李彥秀","徐欣瑩","羅廷瑋","陳超明","許宇甄","林德福","吳秉叡","賴士葆","郭國文","賴惠員","顏寬恒","鍾佳濱","李坤城","王世堅","陳玉珍","黃國昌","羅明才","黃珊珊","楊瓊瓔"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-11-05"],"gazette_id":"1149201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1149201_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期財政委員會第6次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查「使用牌照稅法」29案：（僅詢答）一、行政院函請審議、本院委員邱鎮軍等19人、委員陳\n超明等18人、委員羅明才等20人、委員廖偉翔等19人、委員楊瓊瓔等27人、委員許宇甄等22人、\n委員邱若華等17人、委員林俊憲等26人、委員王鴻薇等19人、委員李彥秀等16人、委員蘇清泉等\n18人、委員徐欣瑩等24人、委員郭昱晴等19人、委員王美惠等19人、委員李坤城等18人、委員羅\n廷瑋等17人、委員郭國文等18人、委員吳沛憶等17人、委員葛如鈞等16人、委員沈發惠等17人、\n委員林思銘等22人、委員賴士葆等25人、委員黃健豪等20人分別擬具「使用牌照稅法第五條條文\n修正草案」等24 案；二、本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「使用牌照稅法第五條及第七條條文修正草\n案」案；三、本院委員廖先翔等17 人擬具「使用牌照稅法第五條及第三十八條條文修正草案」\n案；四、本院委員牛煦庭等17人、委員鍾佳濱等16人分別擬具「使用牌照稅法第七條條文修正草\n案」等 2 案；五、本院委員廖偉翔等 17 人擬具「使用牌照稅法第七條及第三十八條條文修正草\n案」案","agenda_id":"1149201_00001"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}