{"error":false,"id":["165138"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":165138,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165138","日期":"2025-11-06","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-4-22-5","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第5次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":4,"會次":5,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[22],"委員會代碼:str":["教育及文化委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第5次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2025-11-06T09:20:35+08:00","結束時間":"2025-11-06T09:32:04+08:00","影片長度":"00:11:29","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/1b25429c8c6a3a8c04985fb976aacc65f337fb9388085e3bb15cd27f7aef3b91a12d4359cc2b37275ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"柯志恩","委員發言時間":"09:20:35 - 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謝謝召委 我們是不是請院長請蕭院長柯委員早院長早請問院長北越你知道距離我們最近的警察局距離大概多少他的派出所的話距離我們大概200公尺吧200公尺 下山以後對200公尺 萬一故宮發生任何事故的話警察多久時間可以到達"},{"start":24.732,"end":38.801,"text":"我們有所謂的六分鐘六分鐘嗎 有做過這個演練嗎副院長說五分鐘五分鐘有做過這個演練嗎我們有做過演練有做過演練啊 什麼時候一年多少次"},{"start":43.431,"end":69.078,"text":"所以是600公尺一年做多少次为什么要特别提出这个问题因为很严重罗浮宫发生非常大的一个重大的窃案然后故宫就说你们要深自的警惕跟反省引以为戒所以说我们当然要来了解一下这个故宫有没有这个安全的维护包括防盗防窃冲突事件那罗浮宫呢距离警察局大概是800公尺结果7分钟之内被偷了8件的宝物所以院长"},{"start":70.038,"end":94.464,"text":"你們是600公尺五分鐘就會到200公尺五分鐘會到然後呢剩下的然後每年多少的演練這點我們要很重要啊OK故宮是國內唯一的那個重大基礎設施所以基本上來講的話我們在國土安全署的一個監護之下的話每年都會進行相關跟我們的警察局包括北院跟南院都有一年演練幾次我要這個資料"},{"start":98.87,"end":113.977,"text":"以切到案來講我們去年做過一次那今天我們還會再做一次那13號還會再做一次好所以一年超過三四四次南院北院都是一樣跟警察局共同來合作把一些的資料請給本縣"},{"start":115.018,"end":132.86,"text":"因为这非常非常的一个重要为什么我要这边提你看7分钟内偷走8件宝物然后因为故宫也不是没有让的一个记录去年5月的时候就短暂的停电1分钟之内当然就立即的供电但是我们要回顾到2022年的时候在南院曾经长达10个小时"},{"start":133.661,"end":149.096,"text":"那我们当然知道这是因为第六宫殿回路跳脱但是对不起这整个的过程当中呢共花了十个小时不管是离亲或是恢复闭馆等等之类的我觉得对于一个国家级的博物馆来说院长你满意这样的一个效率吗呃"},{"start":152.031,"end":166.942,"text":"这个部分当然是我们要检讨因为应该我还没有到任了不过这个是回路跳脱的话基本上来讲的话是灯光照明会有不管不管是如何安全院长这个就是完全"},{"start":167.262,"end":193.229,"text":"事情发生之后你的整个的紧急的处置的一个措施你很庆幸的他还不是在展馆所以没有任何的损失万一在一个展馆十个小时我觉得这个部分就是姿势体大所以我们要问的就是万一展场停电的话你们的SOP会是什么基本上来讲的话故宫现在的话都有不断电的系统南北沿区的话可以维持多久"},{"start":195.546,"end":207.721,"text":"这个应该立即回应还有最重要的如果报案的话警力到底在北院多久时间到南院多久时间到这是我们最需要知道对 刚刚北院的话就是讲说六分钟对 六分钟那南院呢"},{"start":209.295,"end":231.353,"text":"五分鐘 南院五分鐘好 那這個部分對我來講都是六分鐘對 都是六分鐘那很顯然這六分鐘裡面他們是羅浮宮是七分鐘之內偷了八件寶物那南北院六分鐘之內應該不至於有這麼嚴重了好 我們記住了 這很重要演練非常的重要這是我本席第一題一定要特別提醒的第二個我想還是要來問一下有關玻璃門的問題"},{"start":232.614,"end":253.249,"text":"因为2022年已经被否决了2025年又再一次的被否决了那之前你们已经告诉我非常的尊重你们也没有那么一定要坚持但是呢现在很显然你们说内部讨论之后你们要再提计划所以院长你们的团队就是坚持不会放弃这个玻璃门的这样一个设计就对了"},{"start":253.729,"end":272.603,"text":"玻璃亭的这样的设计就对了根文报告就是基本上来讲的话采购是一个程序我们要让采购的程序去完成另外一个当初原始设计的一个想法就是说在图面上的最左边的有一个小门红色的小门那是故宫最原始的入口"},{"start":273.163,"end":292.48,"text":"那故宫最原始的入口的话原来的话这样层层叠叠爬上去以后它经过一个拱门我了解我这样只是说既然已经有这么多台北的文化文资会都已经透过不同的考量而且还提出了安全结构的问题结果你们是不是因为合约被绑死"},{"start":293.14,"end":320.541,"text":"所以说你说你不坚持可是现在在两次被否决之后你们又要再提计划所以我们只是很好奇到你的坚持的点到底在什么地方而且我必须要提出来你看交通很多人就特别提到的安全就会被质疑所以它会有这样的一个建议有很多学者专家有很多不同的批判我们后面下面看起来是一个示意图它几乎把故宫的本体说实在的已经遮住了一大半但是最重要的部分我们来看下面"},{"start":322.122,"end":347.811,"text":"这个交通部的观光署还把你们故宫列为观光票选人气的景点而且是一个非常大的这样一个故宫原始的一个模样那你现在把门面改掉要设立一个玻璃亭这就是为什么到目前为止不管安全或是大家认为的外观里面我觉得故宫到底在坚持什么难道是跟团队来说的话故宫没有任何的主导权吗一定要跟着你们当初所称的合约或者是所谓的设计团队里面来走吗"},{"start":348.888,"end":369.065,"text":"我想我跟委员报告过就是李烨是一个诚信因为他当初设计这个入口在四家厂商里面得标得标的就是因为他有所以你们是因为被合约的关系因为这个关系而得标所以你们现在必须要坚持这个部分然后被这么多次的否决难道故宫没有任何的主导权吗"},{"start":369.545,"end":388.695,"text":"我想如果下一次的文資審議的話還要再下一次啊沒有共識的話對 沒有共識的話所以你要等到第三次就對了對 我們會改變期望所以你就把整個工程號這邊等到第三次文資審議後你們再做最後的決定給最後的一搏就對了這是目前你的回應嗎也不是這個樣子因為工程本來就有一個進度好"},{"start":389.215,"end":403.784,"text":"我們就來看看吧不過院長我覺得故宮還是要拿出自己的一個想法既然這麼多的也是文資專家提出這樣的意見你好好還是來參看一下不過目前為止是得到要叫第三次我只是不曉得台北市我們絕對會尊重文資委員"},{"start":404.284,"end":433.443,"text":"我不想听文字委员什么时候再来开会了然后接下来我们还是要问一下就是有关于人数的问题刚刚万委员也特别提到了你显然对于嘉义的这个人次的计算是有一些的想法的你很客气你都尊重了好了就像我们造势人员我们明明算是这样他们要喊几万我们也都尊重了这是我们官方的说法我也尊重了但是呢还是问一句话90周年你的目标是529那你去年说你100周年要350万人次你目前有没有办法达标还差多少"},{"start":433.683,"end":445.532,"text":"公文報告我們南苑前天的話破100萬 恭喜我覺得很好然後那個北苑的話昨天的話200萬所以現在300萬已經達標了你350萬耶350萬同仁的評估你現在只剩下你剩下距離年底還剩下一個多月加油"},{"start":453.077,"end":473.427,"text":"跟委員報告就說實際上有一些數據是沒有加進來譬如說我們推廣教育的活動好了沒關係就像我說的數字我們都尊重好不好一萬都可以喊成五萬了你這個只差五十萬你要喊五百我都可以好不好只是要給我們一個很好的部分可以吧給我們一個數據你不管怎麼加就要加的合理就好確切實實的統計"},{"start":474.428,"end":493.926,"text":"好啦事實統計我知道故宮比較嚴謹所以剛剛萬委員問你的時候你語帶保留啦你就是尊重可是我看你的臉色我就知道故宮不可能只有到這個程度啦不可能大方的講我們故宮開大門走大路我們就是有辦法堂堂國家門面啦因為如果說以故宮目前200萬每次展覽展場的人潮的話基本上來講的話"},{"start":494.787,"end":518.821,"text":"大方的講嘛你幹嘛每次都尊重到時候你新聞出來說故宮比不上嘉義你看你就做我告訴你最後一個我們來看看你們的前院長那個主席再給我一分鐘因為我覺得這必須要澄清前院長提出他們自己的論點自我英雄他們認為他把自己定位為改革性的CEO然後呢認為故宮是保守保守守舊的然後呢應該認為說要有KPI有SOP然後呢他認為應該在定位"},{"start":520.862,"end":543.112,"text":"院長別人講就算了你的前院長這樣來說我們的故宮然後我們看下面講的不專業抗拒改革心理因素不想離開看不起男院喜歡策展喜歡被舞台包圍故宮人員工作量很少然後呢幾乎每個人都準時下班前院長這樣說明你現在院長的故宮你的想法是什麼"},{"start":544.783,"end":566.116,"text":"我也只能講說你也只能尊重嗎我可以尊重對但是但是同仁自己心裡有自己的願長你不能夠只是尊重我真的覺得再三強調再三強調就故宮除了文物重要之外我了解故宮人都是故宮是但是院長如果吳密茶院長還在當院長陣內他沒有辦法改革"},{"start":566.736,"end":592.216,"text":"然后呢离开之后来批评那我就要想说他在当位的时候呢难道后面有更高的势力让他在当院长的时候没有办法改革吗轮到他离开故宫的时候就必须要来大肆批评他当年在位的时候没有办法做到的事情吗有这种事吗你也还是尊重吗你要为故宫说一句话吗故宫难道没有SOP制度吗故宫难道看不起南院吗故宫都是准时准时上下班有什么错然后呢有什么好策展喜欢舞台"},{"start":593.297,"end":606.667,"text":"故宮展的是文物有什麼好策展的這些的問題你難道能夠只是尊重嗎只是他那時候你是他的副院長嗎院長不是這樣啦我不是他的副院長好啦那你覺得對前院長的部分你還是只是尊重嗎"},{"start":609.502,"end":623.762,"text":"個人的看法的話我還是給尊重但是我覺得替故宮的同仁打抱不平好 我也覺得因為我本來要稱讚你的不是只有尊重而已因為你特別講那一句話不是只有文物 而是故宮人"},{"start":624.242,"end":650.813,"text":"常年的故宫人累积的这个故宫人还有包括故宫资深的志工都是故宫真的是完全不能磨灭的一个非常棒的一个产物非常棒的一个文化上面的一个贡献我觉得院长你要给故宫人特别是老工人这样的一个尊重故宫绝对不允许前院长这样的部分当他们发现被这样子的一个有任何不适当的一个谬论我在谬论的时候"},{"start":651.733,"end":669.913,"text":"院長 你不能只有尊重你要挺身為故宮人講話特別是對於這些真的已經奉獻很多的人各位 各位報告我在百年宴慶的聯合開幕的字詞裡面有一半是對故宮人的肯定所以這已經表達故宮現在對故宮人的一個態度好"},{"start":670.433,"end":686.898,"text":"这点我给你肯定啊所以说我说这次我们有志一同没有问题但是对于曾经当过你这个位置的人用这个方法来批评检讨故宫我个人认为你还是有必要以院长之姿真的为故宫再来讲一句话好不好大家共同勉励是谢谢柯知恩委"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}