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有請顧部長 謝謝請顧部長部長好 今天最主要是跟無人機的部件策略有關係我先從這邊問起因為這就是大概前陣子的事情而已比利時的空軍基地也是"},{"start":25.601,"end":48.348,"text":"遭到這一個無人機的騷擾他們有兩天他們第一天是小型的無人機先過去偵測偵測頻率知道頻率之後第二天再用這一個大型無人機騷擾他第二天的時候就導致因為他第一天已經先去測過了所以導致第二天這一個要用干擾器要去影響他的時候結果這個比利時這邊就失敗了"},{"start":48.988,"end":66.235,"text":"那所以這邊呢就是第一個問題就是說這一個它比較特別就在於說我們現在面臨到這個所謂的灰色地帶作戰那過往我們都遇到的都是這個從中國過來的一些騷擾不管是從海域 從空軍但像比利時這個遇到的它就是直接是在境內"},{"start":67.055,"end":79.59,"text":"當然它到底是原因什麼這個我們並不是那麼清楚但是有兩個問題就是第一個就是像這種的有第一天 第二天藉由這樣的一個方式去破壞干擾系統那目前我們應對的方式是什麼這個"},{"start":88.192,"end":103.753,"text":"報告委員我是作為機師的次長當然整體無人機的防禦是整體性的考量如同剛剛委員講我們有主動被動軟煞跟硬煞的作為因此在機場除了這個主動的偵測也有被動的偵測那針對它的頻段也區分為訓練"},{"start":107.077,"end":133.712,"text":"戰備商用等各式的評斷那會做依照當時的狀況去做彈性上的調整對這個看起來是屬於這種跟商用有關的這種干擾但是我們想知道的事情就是說因為這比較新型態對不對就是說它分成兩天第一天先把它偵測然後偵測完之後呢第二天讓你很難以干擾那這個事情如果我們遇到的話呢我們的比如說我們的SOP的作為是什麼我們不需要詳細但是我們有沒有這樣的一些規劃"},{"start":135.769,"end":164.69,"text":"就是从前面我们以前所定定部队的反应处置机制就是所谓的识别监控告警通报然后再来是驱离以及后续的相关的监控作为它是有一个部队应处的规范这个是本来就有的嘛本来就有这个规范但我的意思就是说我们应该要把这种比较新形态的这种干扰放进来就是说因为它的方式变得不一样然后第二个就是说呢像你刚刚讲到比如说我们有有侦测然后再来我们可能要做急落等等之类的"},{"start":165.134,"end":182.446,"text":"第一個我們偵測的這個範圍到底夠不夠我知道我們之前這一個我們中科院有一個說它這個預警可以到5公里的或是我們本來也有原來的本來就有4公里就是我們本來就有這些規劃嘛對不對但是我們偵測之後呢我們的這個範圍到底呢跟我們的擊殺的範圍能不能合在一起這也是一個問題嘛"},{"start":183.306,"end":206.118,"text":"然後更不要講說就是後面這是這一個比利時的將軍他自己提到的在下面這邊他就講說第一個當時他們遇到這個事情的時候呢干擾器失效就是我剛剛講的他分成兩天嘛第二個就是說呢因為畢竟附近就是有民宅如果是因為他是空軍基地被騷擾嘛如果是在基地內的話呢當然極洛對他們講比較沒有問題但有時候是在基地周圍就是就跟我們講灰色地帶干擾一樣"},{"start":207.399,"end":224.282,"text":"周圍的時候就要考量到一般的民眾可能會殘骸可能會導致有人受傷就是說那我們針對像後面這件事情我們有沒有相關的這些應處的方式假設今天是我們遇到了台灣很密集就是說附近有沒有這些所謂的有可能會影響到的這個範圍"},{"start":225.123,"end":251.749,"text":"抱怨我們整個無人機的防範如果在機場周邊的話其實我們會結合民航局的航警我們現在的偵測系統甚至能夠定位到操作者他所在的位置的柱子那因此可以通報所在地的警察或者是由機場的航警來去協助查緝那我們目前是用這種不管是用國軍自己的反制系統還有結合民航站的航警的這種查緝的方式來去做防範"},{"start":252.789,"end":274.127,"text":"那剛剛委員指導的這個新型態的這種攻擊式的變化我們也持續在掌握未來納入突發狀況處置規定裡面來做持續的修訂以利部隊去做有效的應處對 這個突發狀況第一個就是突發狀況的這個處置規定它應該要再細緻化因為新型態的看起來太多了這只是就是近期的一個報導我看到之後就想說那如果台灣發生了我們該怎麼辦對不對 第一個"},{"start":274.847,"end":298.793,"text":"但第二個就是你剛剛提到的因為有時候呢它譬如說它不在基地內它在基地外然後呢你們可能在偵測的時候呢發現可能不管是操作者在哪裡啊等等之類的去通報我們的航警或者是通報我們的警察這個呢其實在我們前幾大概四月五月六月的時候呢有發生過這個其實我們私底下也已經問過你們一次了就是說在這個四五六月的時候呢有人在這個新竹的這個機場拍到這個無人機"},{"start":301.574,"end":315.585,"text":"那時候我們詢問之後發現它就是屬於我剛剛講的在基地外在基地外這個時候的處理方式就是去通報警察但現在問題來就是我們的警察有沒有足夠的設備去對應這樣的狀況"},{"start":327.622,"end":348.88,"text":"那針對您的這個問題我們在有好幾個機率都發生過在營外那警察的配備我們目前了解他跟我們一樣是有干擾槍的這個配備但是因為我們有做通報那有偵測到他的方位所以說警察大部分出去之後是以目視的方式來做一個搜索就是說顯然他的設備可能還是不太夠"},{"start":349.8,"end":377.397,"text":"對 就算能量絕對不如國軍所以有時候就是變成這灰色地帶的問題對方 我們不知道對方到底是誰對方到底是我們是內部的是在立協力者還是有人在玩飛機這種我們不知道但是如果今天對方的配備是夠好的我們警察這邊是不夠的話那顯然因為國軍因為國軍今天按照要塞堡壘法的規定有這個第一區第二區對不對結果你們在這一個範圍之外你們想說這個交給警察處理但警察這邊的配備可能是不夠的"},{"start":378.317,"end":406.375,"text":"第一個配備不夠我們可以在譬如說我們在內政委會的時候我們可以請他在預算上面加強這還可以做但偵查這個部分就是情報交換這個部分就剛剛提到的中科院的可以到五公里嘛可以到五公里就是說我們能不能夠協助就是說今天國軍能夠偵測的能夠一樣能夠分享給警察這個分享的系統是長什麼樣子至少你可以去補足他的不足嘛所以這個補足的這個機制目前來講整體的規劃大概是什麼"},{"start":407.53,"end":417.714,"text":"有關這個我們把它講成區域聯防的這種整體規劃就是包含軍方民方還有CIA重要關鍵基礎設施的這些我們正在把它規劃中會在"},{"start":419.977,"end":437.922,"text":"好 那這個我們在這個我們有時間的話我們來討論一下這整體的基礎好不好另外剛剛委員長講的就是在基地附近我們考慮到對民財造成傷害目前有兩種技術我們也正在發展也會很快的引入第一個就是接管Takeover我直接接管它的控制權第二種就是用橋展"},{"start":439.362,"end":452.057,"text":"就是鏟腳的方式因為大部分是FPV它是旋翼式的我鏟腳它以後讓它失去動力我是用一個降落傘讓它緩降也不會對一般區域造成傷害這都是我們現有正在接觸和發展的技術"},{"start":454.399,"end":479.3,"text":"這個剛好就讓我想到就是說你剛剛講到這一個因為這個可惜式的這一次的這個案子其實也有講到這個接管就是說你今天在入關你不管是我應該是有放在下一張就是說我們這一次這一個115年這一個陸軍司令部有一個這一個採購計畫清單這個是還沒有還沒有成這個是還沒有編入預算對不對就我所知這個應該還沒有還沒有 對但這個裡面在講到的地方其實就有剛剛你講到的這個takeover"},{"start":481.081,"end":492.54,"text":"但是因為接管某種程度是需要一些資料庫的比對那現在我們我們在做這件事情的時候我們對於資料庫的比對資料庫的建置這件事情有沒有同步進行"},{"start":496.245,"end":516.111,"text":"這個資料庫的建置是一定要同步進行而且要不斷持續去更新因為它如果沒有更新的話變成說你資料庫不足你資料庫不足你就做不到接管這件事情所以這個部分我們可能之後如果這個有成案的話這個會是我們釘的一個蠻大的一個重點不然的話就等於說你有這個系統你有這個偵測的範圍就你要接管的時候你接管不了那就沒有任何意義"},{"start":517.071,"end":529.285,"text":"好 那這個我後面因為這個我後面還有一些問題這個我晚點再講但是因為時間的關係我先問一下這個昨天這是另外一件事情就是靶場的問題因為我昨天剛好就是這個朋友跟我回報這個是桃園的市議會"},{"start":532.208,"end":557.305,"text":"桃園市議會他們幾個議員他們在發言的時候就講到說這一個中立龍崗要增建市內的靶場的問題這一個是看起來是確實本來那邊因為那邊本來就有基地可能會有一些靶場的訓練有沒有跟居民溝通什麼這個我先擺在一邊但是我在過程當中我看到當地的議員在講說這搞不好這邊以後就會有彈藥庫了"},{"start":558.746,"end":584.753,"text":"然後就把這個東西開始往外擴散擴散之後呢這個時候甚至是有人把它引用說以後國軍要這邊做彈藥庫那我們以後這邊這個戰爭的時候我們就可能會被打我們要怎麼辦這個對我來講就是這是一個在地方上散播的謠言這個謠言很明顯的看起來會對國軍造成影響但是國軍有沒有辦法在第一時間因為這是在地方政府層級發生的事情但請問國軍對這件事情的回應是什麼"},{"start":588.905,"end":607.174,"text":"彈藥庫這件事情包委員沒有在這邊要建立彈藥庫的規劃這個也請六軍團持續的向桃園的這些議員還有里長來持續的做溝通因為我覺得當然溝通是有必要的這個是一定的"},{"start":607.634,"end":635.335,"text":"但是因為如果說在前期的溝通假設是不足的時候你看地方的議員就會站在那邊我覺得這種謠言其實是很傷就是說我們最近大家對於國軍的信心當然是越來越好這個國軍的形象等等之類的但是你看在地方上如果是這樣的謠言而且還是透過議員的口聲這樣講出來那這個其實對這國軍如果沒有第一時間強力的回應說我們並沒有這樣的事情的話這個會造成問題所以拜託就是說這一類的事情以後呢這個"},{"start":636.716,"end":661.205,"text":"不要說回報因為應該就是要主動要知道說在地方上有沒有這樣的一些謠言在散播而這個謠言散播的時候呢有沒有有利的一個回擊我認為這個對國軍是非常重要的事情但是拉回來講就是我們回到我們不要彈藥庫沒有嘛但是靶場這件事情因為對附近的居民大概有幾萬人嘛然後他怕說有噪音啊或什麼等等之類的那這件事情的溝通呢"},{"start":662.066,"end":667.751,"text":"為什麼在那邊要設靶場那個靶場的重要性是什麼然後以及這個溝通的過程是什麼可以稍微說明一下包委員我也很了解在這個很多傳統的靶場它基本上還是有噪音還有也有可能流彈的風險所以我們參考世界各國訓練上的需要我們也朝向室內靶場的一個需求來建置那當然"},{"start":687.208,"end":709.085,"text":"室內靶場他包含到全天候不受天候的效益而且更能增加這些訓練的時數那所以基本上我們的確有規劃在這個我們自己的龍崗訓場上面去建置但是他先期的建案程序裡面必須先做一個可行性的評估那我們現在做的階段就是有關於這個先期規劃的現在還在可行性評估"},{"start":710.726,"end":729.609,"text":"大概要到明年的上半年底肯定性評估出來這一段期間我們還是會就適時的現況持續的跟地方尊您的指導我們會持續的來做溝通說明因為可行性的評估如果現在還在做的話那過程當中第一個因為說真的根本就沒有彈藥庫嗎"},{"start":730.51,"end":753.241,"text":"所以其實沒有那個恐懼那如果只是單純的這個訓練這個照理說對國軍來講這天經地義嘛這保衛國家所必要的一個訓練所以噪音的部分如果有居民的關注針對噪音的部分我看那個佔地那麼大如果室內靶場這個如果是做得好這個你說噪音我覺得可能也還好但是總之就是需要去溝通嘛溝通完之後呢也可以阻止像類似的這個謠言的散播啦"},{"start":753.946,"end":775.961,"text":"我想跟各位報告就是說第一個沒有任何興建彈藥庫的一個規劃這是第一點那第二點就是說就我跟陸軍了解就是說他要在明年六月底前要完成一個可行性評估那我們就這個可行性評估還要看他的報告是如何那另外就是說我們會持續跟地方來溝通協調那取得這個"},{"start":776.981,"end":790.287,"text":"地方的理解我們當然也要兼顧整個戰備訓練跟民眾的權益這個我們會綜合來評估考量也就是說現在還沒有一個定案那就再拜託了謝謝部長 謝謝主席"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}