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各位同仁 各位媒體朋友 大家早安 大家好"},{"start":2289.244,"end":2303.67,"text":"台灣作為高科技產業重鎮在全球半導體及AI的供應鏈中扮演舉足輕重的角色然而半導體的生產及AI的發展需要穩定及龐大的電力供應"},{"start":2304.75,"end":2327.606,"text":"面對日益增加的電力需求,民進黨政府卻毫無準備缺乏長遠的能源規劃,導致企業與民生用電陷入危機儘管電力需求飆升,政府依舊打算在今年的五月將核三長除役放眼世界各國,非核已經讓台灣變成一個人的武林"},{"start":2328.306,"end":2346.878,"text":"在歐洲除德國外,幾乎都放棄非核計畫。鄰近台灣的中日韓及東南亞,都在積極的發展核電或研議核電廠。台灣在此時此刻,更應該懸崖勒馬,而不是在錯誤的道路上越走越遠。"},{"start":2347.839,"end":2363.484,"text":"台電一而再再而三的要求國庫撥補難道撥補台電就真的不會漲電價嗎事實上完全不是台電不斷虧損不斷的從國庫搬錢我們只看到綠油油的光電業者股價不斷飆漲"},{"start":2365.625,"end":2387.41,"text":"一再的拨补台电难道是要利用全民间接资助民进党相关友好的绿油油吗过去三年从111年到113年中央政府挹注3000亿补贴台电却仍然无法阻止电价连年攀升111年平均电价上调8.4%"},{"start":2389.651,"end":2391.432,"text":"112年再調漲11%113年全年共調漲11%當年10月產業電價也調整了12.5%僅民生電價暫時動漲這種情況形同年年調漲卻"},{"start":2407.705,"end":2424.757,"text":"補動越補越大也凸顯了政府能源政策的錯誤與台電經營管理的混亂令人納悶的是電價年年調漲台電卻持續虧損追根究底還是在於政府錯誤的能源政策也是年年補貼台電"},{"start":2426.258,"end":2443.344,"text":"依舊虧損的真正原因民進黨政府一直以非核家園為口號卻從來沒有拿出真正可行的替代方案讓台灣的電力供應始終處於極度不穩定的狀態秉席在這邊向賴總統提出國事建議"},{"start":2447.165,"end":2470.08,"text":"應該停止政策操弄重新檢視錯誤的能源政策期盼能源政策應以民眾生活以經濟發展為核心而不是某位政黨意識形態下的犧牲品最後呼籲賴總統以及民進黨政府苦民所苦不是靠空喊口號來掩飾錯誤的能源政策的事實"},{"start":2473.704,"end":2476.467,"text":"韓院長 卓院長各位官員 各位同事們 大家早安"},{"start":2499.281,"end":2523.618,"text":"你們可曾想過在這片土地上有一群孩子他們的學校既不在城市的繁華之中也不在偏遠山區的特殊關懷之內他們生活在非三非四的鄉鎮裡他們的學校他們的未來正被忽視我們的目光總是被山區的刻苦艱辛所吸引"},{"start":2524.258,"end":2548.739,"text":"被都市學校的競爭力所震撼卻很少注意到這些位於資源夾縫中的學校他們不像都市學校中擁有豐富的學習機會也被排除在政府對偏遠地區中小學的政策補助之外他們是不上不下的一群是我們社會默默遺忘的一角"},{"start":2549.5,"end":2570.998,"text":"教育部於2017年制定了偏遠地區學校的發展條例2018年將偏遠小學資格收歸中央2019年再公佈教育部補助偏遠地區及非山非市學校的教育作業要點但事實上教育資源分配的結構中"},{"start":2572.34,"end":2579.392,"text":"非三非四的中小學依舊被放置在最底層的位置掃紙化的浪潮捲襲而來"},{"start":2581.907,"end":2606.675,"text":"這些學校的學生人數不斷減少師資流失 經費短缺課程減縮 校舍連久失修這些問題正一點一滴地在摧毀我們孩子的未來我們曾經承諾每一個孩子都有公平受教育的權利無論他出生在哪裡但今天我們真的做到了嗎"},{"start":2607.555,"end":2630.906,"text":"政府應該重新檢視教育資源的分配提供更靈活的經費支持讓非山非市的學校能夠維持運作而不是放任這些孩子在匱乏的資源之下受教一所學校對於城市來說也許只是眾多學校中的一間但是對於一個小鄉小鎮來說"},{"start":2633.007,"end":2654.125,"text":"它是孩子們改變未來的希望是無數夢想的起點今天我再次呼籲教育部應該立即行動修改相關辦法讓每一個孩子無論他是住在都市山區還是非山非市的小鎮都擁有公平受教的權利謝謝"},{"start":2659.184,"end":2663.78,"text":"谢谢张家俊委员的发言接下来请登记最后一位林倩琪委员发言"},{"start":2677.23,"end":2693.08,"text":"台灣應該審慎因應美國優先的掠奪式戰略院長部會首長還有各位同仁大家好今天本席想從國際政治的角度來談談美國掠奪式戰略與交易式外交對台灣的影響"},{"start":2694.401,"end":2718.232,"text":"過去我們習慣將美國視為民主世界的領袖堅定的盟友認為他對盟友的支持是建立在共同價值與戰略利益之上然而現實告訴我們美國的外交政策現在充滿了現實主義的色彩特別是在川普主政下交易與掠奪的邏輯成為決策的核心導致美國對盟友"},{"start":2718.772,"end":2745.581,"text":"承诺产生高度的不确定性这不仅影响了乌克兰也可能对台湾构成潜在的风险我们可以从美国对乌克兰政策的变化看出国际承诺的脆弱性拜登政府将乌克兰战争视为美俄对抗的前线因此投入了大量的军援与外交的资源并推动北约国家共同施压俄罗斯然而川普的回归改变了这一切"},{"start":2746.201,"end":2756.426,"text":"他不僅質疑美國無條件援助烏克蘭的必要性甚至迫使基輔接受不平等的談判條件以換取戰爭的快速結束"},{"start":2759.509,"end":2776.979,"text":"這涉及到國際理論當中的現實主義與自由主義之爭拜登的政策符合自由主義的多邊合作觀點然而烏克蘭問題是維持全世界秩序的必要措施而川普更傾向於現實主義認為烏克蘭問題是"},{"start":2778.9,"end":2798.198,"text":"外交應該要服務於國內的利益並且應該以最小的成本換取最大的利益這對台灣無疑是一個巨大的警訊長期以來北約與第一島鏈的安全架構依賴美國的軍事承諾但是川普的做法顯示美國可能不願意再為盟友無條件的提供保障"},{"start":2798.698,"end":2812.917,"text":"而是要盟友自行承擔更大的責任這樣趨勢下去美國在亞太地區的角色也可能發生類似的變化台灣必須為此做好準備我們需要警惕川普的外交風格不同於傳統的美國總統他強調美國優先"},{"start":2817.362,"end":2838.528,"text":"這種交易式外交的戰略利益戰略利益其實是交易式外交很重要的一個思維它將所有的國際承諾視為可談判的交易籌碼這在烏克蘭問題上體現得非常明顯那這個邏輯如果適用於台灣對我們整體的國際戰略地位有很大的影響所以"},{"start":2839.108,"end":2860.792,"text":"川普的台灣政策很可能不會基於道德與價值觀而是取決於我們能否提供美國戰略利益所以我們的外交策略應該更加多元在局勢非常加劇變動的今天我們需要拓展更多的空間尤其是與中國大陸的雙邊關係與美中保持緊密的關係並且與日本"},{"start":2884.624,"end":2888.267,"text":"我们现在登记国事论坛发言的委员均已发言完毕现在休息"},{"start":5407.625,"end":5419.496,"text":"报言会我们现在继续开会请副秘书长报告出席人数出席委员51人已出法定人数我们现在开会进行报告事项请副秘书长宣读第三会期第四次会议"},{"start":5421.533,"end":5449.796,"text":"立法院第十一屆第三會期第四次會議議事錄時間中華民國114年3月7日上午9時至9時31分10時至11時53分3月12日下午4時10分至5時40分地點本院議場出席委員陳委員周知等112人列席官員行政院院長卓榮泰等40人主席院長韓國瑜副院長江啟臣報告事項第一案宣讀本院第十一屆第三會期第三次會議議事錄決定確定"},{"start":5451.755,"end":5476.68,"text":"第二至第五案決定交全院委員會審查審查及投票表決時程照國民黨黨團、台灣民眾黨黨團提議通過第六至十一、十三至三十八、四十三至一百四十一、一百四十三至兩百三十八案均決定交付相關委員會審查處理或交付相關委員會第十二案決定淨附二讀與相關提案並按協商"},{"start":5477.264,"end":5488.728,"text":"第39至42案均決定近乎二讀並由國民黨黨團負責召集協商第142案決定交黨團協商會議處理第239至242案為財政委員會等所提之報告案第243案決定照國民黨黨團台灣民眾黨黨團提議通過質詢四項本院委員質詢部分一件討論四項第一案決議交付黨團協商並由國民黨黨團負責召集協商"},{"start":5507.042,"end":5524.757,"text":"第二案決議令定期處理附議案之處理事項決議中華民國一百一十四年度中央政府總預算案及財政收支劃分法修正第八條第十六之一條十六條之一及第三十條條文附議案本案原決議均予以維持"},{"start":5525.413,"end":5551.629,"text":"其他事項本次會議議事日程報告事項其他議程照台灣民眾黨黨團及國民黨黨團提議通過甄列討論事項照國民黨黨團提議通過質詢事項照原編擬議程草案處理宣讀完畢報告議會針對第三會期第四次會議議事錄並沒有委員或黨團提出錯誤或遺漏之處我們做以下決定第三會期第四次會議議事錄確定請宣讀第二"},{"start":5552.233,"end":5576.609,"text":"第二案 本院委員林倩琦的二十三例據《軍人待遇條例》第五頭談判修正常案陳修委員會見交外交及國防司法及法治兩委員會審查宣言完畢報告事項第二案現有國民黨團體禁服二讀與相關提案並案協商請問院會有無異議有無異議沒有異議本案禁服二讀與相關提案並案協商下一案"},{"start":5577.199,"end":5583.325,"text":"第三案 本院委員林倩琦等18人離去中華民國刑法第339條 第339條之三及第339條之四條無修正草案詮詢委員會間交司法及法證委員會審查宣讀完畢請委員會有異議無異議通過下項"},{"start":5592.728,"end":5611.914,"text":"第四案 本院委員林倩琦等18人理據教育基本法第六條條文修正常案陳秀元會監教教育及文化委員會審查宣傳完畢第五案 本院委員林倩琦等18人理據運動產業發展條例第26條之二條文修正常案陳秀元會監教教育及文化委員會審查宣傳完畢"},{"start":5613.214,"end":5634.079,"text":"第六案 本院委員林倩琦等18人離聚 氣候變遷因應法部分條文修正草案 柴修委員會間交生衛福利及衛生環境經濟財政內政交通教育及文化令委員會審查 宣言完畢第七案 本院委員賴世寶等22人離聚 國營事業管理法第14條條文修正草案 柴修委員會間交經濟委員會審查 宣言完畢"},{"start":5635.339,"end":5663.49,"text":"第八案 本院委員賴世寶等21人離聚 獲稅條例第11條之一條文修憲草案 陳秀永會監交財政委員會審查 宣言完畢第九案 本院委員賴世寶等22人離聚 加持刑及非加持營業稅法第58條條文修憲草案 陳秀永會監交財政委員會審查 宣言完畢第十案 本院委員賴世寶等22人離聚 所得稅法第17條條文修憲草案 陳秀永會監交財政委員會審查 宣言完畢"},{"start":5664.75,"end":5687.129,"text":"第十一案本月委员赖世宝的二十人离聚中央行政机关组织基准法第二十八条条文修正草案财修委员会间交司法及法治委员会审查宣言回避无疑通过下言第十二案本月委员赖世宝的二十人离聚气候编签因应法第五条条文修正草案财修委员会间交社会福利及卫生环境经济财政内政交通交易界文化立委员会审查宣言回避无疑通过下言"},{"start":5687.549,"end":5704.468,"text":"第十三案北岳委員葛如君等三十七人離去人工智慧基本法草案陳秀媛會間交召五級文化交通兩務委員會審查宣傳完畢第十四案北岳委員王逸川等十六人離去公路法第六十五條條文修正草案陳秀媛會間交召兩務委員會審查宣傳完畢"},{"start":5705.569,"end":5722.936,"text":"第十五案 本院委員邱振勳的二十一人理據 貨物稅條例第十一條之一條務修正草案 程序委員會皆交財政委員會審查 宣言完畢第十六案 本院委員邱振勳的十九人理據 實用牌照稅法第五條條務修正草案 程序委員會皆交財政委員會審查 宣言完畢"},{"start":5724.116,"end":5751.822,"text":"第十七案本院委員邱勝勳等18人離聚運動產業發展條例第二條第24條及第26條條文修正草案陳修委員會間交交解王化委員會審查宣言完畢第十八案本院委員徐欣盈等22人離聚今天日期節日實施條例草案陳修委員會間交內政委員會審查宣言完畢第十九案本院委員徐欣盈等24人離聚貨物稅條例第11條之一條文修正草案陳修委員會間交財政委員會審查宣言完畢"},{"start":5754.282,"end":5777.787,"text":"第20案 本院委員學習引導22人理據電影法第7條及第8條條文修正草案陳秀燕會監教教育及文化委員會審查 宣言完畢第21案 本院委員楊瓊儀的21人理據核子反應器設施管制法第6條條文修正草案陳秀燕會監教教育及文化委員會審查 宣言完畢第22案 本院委員楊瓊儀的24人理費制經濟運動業委員會預約署組織條例陳秀燕會監教司法及法治經濟來委員會審查"},{"start":5784.549,"end":5792.297,"text":"第23案 本院委員楊崇義的24年免費制 勤進院農業委員會水土保持局組織法 程序委員會兼交司法及法治經濟 兩委員會審查"},{"start":5804.589,"end":5805.149,"text":"第25案第26案第27案"},{"start":5824.457,"end":5842.558,"text":"第二十七案 本院委員高新素梅的二十九人離聚 今天日期節日實施條例草案 陳秀元會監教內政委員會審查 宣言完畢第二十八案 本院委員徐玉珍的二十六人離聚 核子反應器實施管制法第六大談判修正草案 陳秀元會監教教育界文化委員會審查 宣言完畢"},{"start":5843.539,"end":5868.422,"text":"第二十九案 本院委員徐宇珍等二十五人凝聚 教育基本法第二條條文修正草案 陳秀妍會見教教育及文化委員會審查 宣言完畢第二十十案 本院委員邱仲華等十七人凝聚 自動安全管理法修正草案 陳秀妍會見教消動委員會審查 宣言完畢第二十一案 本院委員邱仲華等十七人凝聚 人工智慧基本法草案 陳秀妍會見教消動委員會審查 宣言完畢"},{"start":5869.422,"end":5884.993,"text":"報告事項第31案現有國民黨團體改交教育及文化交通兩委會審查請問院會有無異議有無異議沒有異議我們本案改交教育及文化交通兩委會審查下壓"},{"start":5885.558,"end":5905.979,"text":"第32案 本院委員羅廷偉的十七任理據 運動財政方針條例第21條及第21條之一條文修憲草案 程序委員會監教教育界文化財政兩務委員會審查 宣言完畢第33案 本院委員羅廷偉的十六任理據 社會救助法部分條文修憲草案 程序委員會監教社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查 宣言完畢"},{"start":5907.04,"end":5935.119,"text":"第34案本院委员莫小林等17人离去货物税条例第11条是一条维修审草案财政委员会监交财政委员会审查宣言完毕第35案本院委员廖伟祥等16人离去今天日及节日实施条例草案财政委员会监交内政委员会审查宣言完毕第36案本院委员林思明等21人离废止行政运动业务委员会逾越所组织条例财政委员会监交司法及法治经济栏委员会审查宣言完毕第36案"},{"start":5935.859,"end":5954.087,"text":"第三十七案本月五月零四名的十八案的延廢止新建院農業委員會農糧署組織條例程序委員會監教司法及法治經濟的兩委員會審查宣言完畢第三十八案本月五月零四名的二十人的延廢止新建院農業委員會水土保持局組織法程序委員會監教司法及法治經濟的兩委員會審查宣言完畢"},{"start":5956.508,"end":5984.882,"text":"第39案 北部委員零四名的二十一人的廢紙行政院農業委員會農業金融局組織條例 程序委員會監交司法及法治經濟 藍委員會審查 宣傳完畢第40案 北部委員邱勝勳的十九人離聚 農業發展條例第三條條文修正草案 程序委員會監交經濟委員會審查 宣傳完畢第41案 北部委員邱勝勳的十九人離聚 貨物稅條例第十二條之三條文修正草案 程序委員會監交財政委員會審查 宣傳完畢"},{"start":5985.862,"end":6013.058,"text":"第四十二案 本院委員邱勝勳的十九人理據 環境基本法第二十三條條文修正草案 程序委員會監交社會福利修正環境委員會審查 宣言完畢第四十三案 本院委員李燕秀的十六人理據 國定紀念日集結日實施條例草案 程序委員會監交內政委員會審查 宣言完畢第四十四案 本院委員羅明財的十六人理據 貨幣稅條例第十一條之一條文修正草案 程序委員會監交財政委員會審查 宣言完畢"},{"start":6014.099,"end":6043.536,"text":"第四十五案 本院委員賴銳龍的十九年一具定業法部分條文修正草案程序委員會監交經濟委員會審查 宣布完畢第四十六案 本院委員賴銳龍的十九年一具人工智慧基本法草案程序委員會監交教育及文化交通量務委員會審查 宣布完畢報告事項第四十六案現有本院賴銳龍委員提出撤回提案請問院會有異議沒有異議本案同意撤回 下一案"},{"start":6044.622,"end":6063.179,"text":"第四十七案 本院委員蔡其昌的二十一三零巨人工智慧基本防潮案陳秀勇會見教授及文化交通兩務委員會審查 宣言完畢報告事項第四十七案現由本院委員蔡其昌委員提議撤回提案請問院會有異議沒有異議本案同意撤回 下議案"},{"start":6063.666,"end":6082.879,"text":"第四十八案 本院委員蔡協商等21人離聚 兒童及少年福利與權益保障法部分條文修正草案 強行委員會監交社會福利優先環境委員會審查 宣言完畢第四十九案 本院委員蔡協商等16人離聚 運動財權發行條例第二條及第21條條文修正草案 強行委員會監交教育及文化財政兩委員會審查 宣言完畢"},{"start":6085.14,"end":6107.056,"text":"第五十二本月委员黄杰等17人联聚运动财务发行条例第26条之一条文修正草案前修委员会间交交与及文化委员会审查宣言完毕无疑通过下言第五十一案本月委员王美惠等24人联聚运动财务发行条例第21条及第21条之一条文修正草案前修委员会间交交与及文化财务委员会审查宣言完毕无疑通过下言"},{"start":6107.276,"end":6130.192,"text":"第五十二案 本院委員吳思瑤的十八案領據運動裁券發行條例第二十一條及第二十一條之一條無修正草案裁券委員會間交交給文化財政兩務委員會審查 宣言完畢五十三案 本院委員郭國文的十七案領據運動裁券發行條例第二十一條及第二十一條之一條無修正草案裁券委員會間交交給文化財政兩務委員會審查 宣言完畢五十三案"},{"start":6130.532,"end":6147.693,"text":"第五十四案本月員工國文的十七年年居獲婚稅條例第十一條文修正草案請求委員會監交財政委員會審查宣言完畢第五十五案本月員工國文的十七年年居家屬刑及非教育行業稅法部分條文修正草案請求委員會監交財政委員會審查宣言完畢"},{"start":6149.815,"end":6166.977,"text":"第五十六案 本院委員郭國文的十七人凝聚不動產經濟業管理條例第十四條條文修正草案 程序委員會尖叫內政委員會審查 宣言完畢第五十七案 本院台灣民眾黨老團凝聚 所得稅法部分條文修正草案 程序委員會尖叫財政委員會審查 宣言完畢"},{"start":6167.978,"end":6196.532,"text":"第五十八案 本院台灣民眾黨保團凝聚 到學法第25條條文修正草案 承受委員會監教教育及文化委員會審查 宣言完畢第五十九案 本院台灣民眾黨保團凝聚 全民健康保險法第3條條文修正草案 承受委員會監教社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查 宣言完畢第六十案 本院台灣民眾黨保團凝聚 兒童及少年福利與全業保障法第13條及第90條條文修正草案 承受委員會監教社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查"},{"start":6197.352,"end":6199.833,"text":"第六十一案第六十二案第六十二案"},{"start":6223.41,"end":6226.351,"text":"第六十三案內政委員會本案由台灣民眾黨團體改交審查本案交內政委員會審查下一案"},{"start":6244.417,"end":6260.229,"text":"第六十四案經濟管轄中華民國一百十四年度再生能源電能短供費率及其計算公式詳訊委員會間交經濟委員會宣傳完畢報告委員會本案由台灣民眾黨黨團體改交審查本案交經濟委員會審查下一項"},{"start":6260.66,"end":6279.892,"text":"第六十五案 經濟部交通部海外修正 車輛容許耗用能源標準及檢查管理辦法部分條文及歷史一條附件 程序委員會接交經濟交通兩委員會 宣傳完畢第六十六案 農業部海外修正公告 美國阿肯色州自高邊緣性家境流失性感冒肺疫區刪除 程序委員會接交經濟委員會 宣傳完畢"},{"start":6282.253,"end":6302.772,"text":"第六十七案 農業部還會修正原樣漁業條例第十七條定項所定與我國相互執行公海等階級國家及指定船舶程序委員會兼交經濟委員會宣言完畢第六十八案 農業部還會修正農業部林業及自然保育署阿里山林業鐵路及文化資產管理書編制表程序委員會兼交司法及法治經濟兩委員會宣言完畢"},{"start":6305.074,"end":6325.718,"text":"第69案 國家通訊傳播委員會行為修正應經合轉至電信管制設平器材電信管制設平器材製造輸入及申報作業管理頒發及電信管理業務規範收費標準第14條條文陳修委員會兼交交通委員會宣言完畢報言會本案由台灣民眾黨團國民黨團體改交審查本案交交通委員會審查下議案"},{"start":6326.158,"end":6333.604,"text":"第七十一案第七十一案衛生福利部海外修正全民健康保險醫療服務給付項目及支付標準部分治療項目並自一百十四年一月一日生效採訪委員會監教社會福利基本上環境委員會宣傳完畢"},{"start":6347.156,"end":6370.458,"text":"第七宣案 衛生福利部函宋本院修正了統計少年性活血防治條例部分條文通過附帶決議第一項第二項及第四項之書面報告強修委員會建交社會福利及衛生環境司法及法治兩位委員會宣言完畢第七宣案 勞動部函宋本院修正就業服務法第四十六條條文通過附帶決議第一項之第三項之辦理清新強修委員會建交社會福利及衛生環境委員會宣言完畢"},{"start":6371.559,"end":6387.317,"text":"第七十四案 前紀委函宋公告中華民國一百十三年凱米颱風風災災區範圍並自一百十三年七月二十二日生效前衆委員會間交內政委員會宣言完畢第七十五案 前紀委函文修正促進轉型專業基金收支包括金融辦法第三條定報調集體幫調製一條文"},{"start":6389.039,"end":6389.559,"text":"第76案第76案第76案第76案"},{"start":6406.966,"end":6408.948,"text":"第七十七案第七十八案第七十八案第七十八案"},{"start":6432.99,"end":6455.271,"text":"第109案 行政部海外修正官職 要品分集集名相 部分分集集名相 查修委員會監教 社會福利 修商環境委員會 宣言完畢 無異通過下言第80案 內政部海外修正性侵害犯罪 加害人 登記報告床房及場域 辦法第2條條文 查修委員會監教 內政委員會 宣言完畢 無異通過下言第80案 內政部海外修正國際法 順行細則第6條條文 查修委員會監教 內政委員會 宣言完畢 無異通過下言"},{"start":6458.214,"end":6462.498,"text":"第一八十二案第八十三案第一八十四案第一八十四案第一八十四案"},{"start":6484.116,"end":6490.459,"text":"第85案 內政委員會接交內政委員會 宣告完畢第86案 內政委員會接交內政委員會 宣告完畢第86案 內政委員會接交內政委員會 宣告完畢"},{"start":6513.089,"end":6539.55,"text":"報告委員會本案由臺灣民眾黨團體改交審查本案交內政委員會審查下一頁第一八十八案強勿委員會還未修正強勿委員會專業獎賞頒給辦法第六條附表三強勿委員會兼交外交及國防委員會宣言完畢無疑通過下一頁第一八十九案經濟部還未修正科技產源園區區內事業投資管理辦法強勿委員會兼交經濟委員會宣言完畢報告委員會本案由國民黨團體改交審查本案交經濟委員會審查下一頁"},{"start":6540.049,"end":6553.645,"text":"第九十案 經濟幕後修正國營事業編列研究發展支出暫期總支出預算比例陳修永會接交經濟委員會 宣告完畢報告委員會本案由國民黨團體改交審查本案交經濟委員會審查 下一案"},{"start":6554.093,"end":6556.515,"text":"第九十一案第九十二案第九十三案第九十三案"},{"start":6580.532,"end":6609.899,"text":"第九十四案經濟部海外修正應施檢驗汽車用輪胎雙品質相關檢游規定陳修緣會建交經濟委員會宣傳完畢第九十五案經濟部內全部海外修正商業團體分業標準加油站商業團體業別名專為加油競戰商業集齊業務範圍陳修緣會建交經濟內專兩委員會宣傳完畢第九十六案經濟部才全部海外修正中小企業研究發展支出使用投資抵減辦法中小企業增顧員工薪資費用加減解除辦法"},{"start":6610.299,"end":6639.447,"text":"及中小企业员工加薪薪资费用加成减除办法程序委员会建交经济财政两位委员会宣布完毕无意通过下议案第九十七案农业部含重猪胶及紫薇为适用植物品种及种苗发植植物种类程序委员会建交经济委员会宣布完毕无意通过下议案第九十八案农业部含有修身公告美国亚利桑那州自高病原性家习流行性感冒肺疫区删除程序委员会建交经济委员会宣布完毕无意通过下议案"},{"start":6640.083,"end":6661.558,"text":"第99案 農業部海域修正從事農業 工作農民 申請參加農民健康保險認定標準及資格審查辦法部分條文及第6條附件3 程序委員會建交監禁委員會 宣布完畢第一版案 農業部海域修正公告 美國伊利諾州自高病原性家庭流行性感冒非醫學三處 程序委員會建交監禁委員會 宣布完畢"},{"start":6662.719,"end":6687.706,"text":"第一零一案農業部署修正農業輔導管理辦法第二十四條修正條文及對照表看護表請修正公告認識及美國紐約州密蘇里州為高病原性降血流行性感冒肺疫區請修正公告認識及美國紐約州密蘇里州為高病原性降血流行性感冒肺疫區請修正公告認識及美國紐約州密蘇里州為高病原性降血流行性感冒肺疫區請修正公告認識及美國紐約州密蘇里州為高病原性降血流行性感冒肺疫區請修正公告認識及美國紐約州密蘇里州為高病原性降血流行性性感冒肺疫區請修"},{"start":6691.727,"end":6705.963,"text":"第104案 農業部海外修正公告美國北塔科他州自高明遠線架線流行性感冒飛去刪除前學員會見交經濟委員會宣傳完畢第105案 農業部海外修正農業部農田水利署高雄國內署農田水利署示範為"},{"start":6706.784,"end":6707.805,"text":"會通過下一頁會通過下一頁會通過下一頁"},{"start":6730.197,"end":6757.603,"text":"第一零八案 奴役幕海委修正公告美國奧克拉荷馬州自高病原性交情流血性感冒肺炎去刪除 裁刑委員會建交經濟委員會 宣言完畢第一零九案 裁刑幕海委修正稅務違章案件減免處罰標準第十六條之三及第二十六條條文 裁刑委員會建交裁刑委員會 宣言完畢第一零零案 裁刑幕海委修正進出口貨物查驗準則部分條文 裁刑委員會建交裁刑委員會 宣言完畢"},{"start":6758.743,"end":6765.948,"text":"第111案 財政部工業財政部工業財政部工業財政部工業財政部工業財政部工業財政部工業財政部工業財政部工業財政部工業財政部工業財政部工業財政部工業財政部工業財政部"},{"start":6778.777,"end":6806.085,"text":"第113案 財政部海外修正財政部財政資訊中心初步規程第4條定報條例第17條條文強勇委員會兼交400級財政兩位委員會宣布完畢第一次案 金融監督管理委員會海外修正證券投資信託事業負責人與業務人員管理規則第4條之一條文證券投資信託事業管理規則第19條之一條文其證券投資信託事業證券投資顧問事業經營全球委託投資業務管理辦法第19條之二條文"},{"start":6807.385,"end":6825.829,"text":"財政委員會建交財政委員會 宣讀完畢第一五案 金融監督管理委員會函送提供虛擬資產服務之事業或人員洗錢方式等其辦法財政委員會建交財政委員會 宣讀完畢報告委員會本案由台灣民眾黨團體改交審查本案交財政委員會審查 下一案"},{"start":6826.269,"end":6843.176,"text":"第116案金融監督管理委員會函宗金融機構及提供虛擬資產服務指示業或人員防止詐欺犯罪危害因罪巡視項配方求求委員會尖叫財政委員會宣布違規報告委員會本案由台灣民眾黨團體改交審查本案交財政委員會審查下一案"},{"start":6843.649,"end":6869.046,"text":"第117案 金融監督管理委員會 海門修正 外景義工國外小委會對業務管理辦法 程序委員會兼交財政委員會 宣讀完畢報告委員會 本案由台灣民眾黨團體改交審查 本案交財政委員會審查 下議案第118案 金融監督管理委員會 海門修正 會計師持續專業經銷辦法第三條 第五條及第四條條文 程序委員會兼交財政委員會 宣讀完畢無疑通過 下議案"},{"start":6869.426,"end":6882.402,"text":"第一一九二金融監督管理委員會還沒修正金融監督管理委員會出入規程第七條第八條第十一條追一條文及金融監督管理委員會編制表陳秀園會兼交司法及法制財政兩務委員會宣傳完畢為通過下議案"},{"start":6885.56,"end":6904.345,"text":"第120案 交通部海運修正自由貿易港區事業營運管理辦法第7條條文 程序委員會尖叫交通委員會 宣讀完畢第120案 交通部海運修正交通部民用航空局高雄國際航空站編制表等五項編制表程序委員會尖叫司法及法治交通兩委員會 宣讀完畢"},{"start":6905.945,"end":6927.176,"text":"第一一二二案 交通部原住民組委員會 海門修正 觀光地區與風景特定區及自然人文生態景觀區觀光保育費收取辦法第六條條文 程序委員會兼交通內政兩委員會 宣傳完畢第一二三案 交通部內政部海門修正 道路交通標誌標線耗時設置規則部分條文 程序委員會兼交通內政兩委員會 宣傳完畢"},{"start":6930.578,"end":6957.027,"text":"第一二四案 司法院行為修正司法事務官本領個類事務之範圍二之三查修委員會兼交司法及法治委員會 宣讀完畢第一二五案 司法院行為修正國民法官費用支給辦法第十四條及第二十三條條文查修委員會兼交司法及法治委員會 宣讀完畢第一二六案 司法院行為修正公證人發出洗錢及打擊自控奔放第一條第二條及第三條條文查修委員會兼交司法及法治委員會 宣讀完畢"},{"start":6958.487,"end":6985.721,"text":"第127案司法院協政院行為修正情勢補償事件整理規則部分條文程序委員會兼交司法及法治委員會宣言完畢第128案內政部行為修正內政部國家公務員署肯定國家公務員管理處編制表等9項編制表程序委員會兼交司法及法治內政兩委員會宣言完畢第129案監察院行為修正監察院署會監察法部分條文程序委員會兼交司法及法治委員會宣言完畢"},{"start":6987.142,"end":7008.194,"text":"第一三零二衛生福利部還會新增無島症及紅細胞增多症為罕見疾病採取委員會監教社會福利及衛生環境委員會宣讀完畢第一三一二環境部還使用排放管道中氨氣質檢測方法電分法NIAA408.73B採取委員會監教社會福利及衛生環境委員會宣讀完畢"},{"start":7009.355,"end":7030.533,"text":"第一三二案 環境部海外廢止排放管道中氨氣水檢測方法 電分法 NIEA A408.72B 求修委員會兼交社會福利基金會上環境委員會 宣告完畢第一三三案 環境部海外廢止排放管道中氨氣水檢測方法 濁度計法 NIEA W219.53C 求修委員會兼交社會福利基金會上環境委員會 宣告完畢第一三三案 環境部海外廢止排放管道中氨氣水檢測方法 濁度計法 NIEA W219.53C 求修委員會兼交社會福利基金會上環境委員會 宣告完畢第一"},{"start":7031.374,"end":7031.914,"text":"第1、3、4、5、6、7、8、9、10第1、3、5、6、7、8、9、10第1、3、5、6、7、8、10第1、3、5、6、7、8、10第1、3、5、6、7、8、10第1、3、5、6、7、8、10第1、3、5、6、7、8、10第1、3、5、6、7、8、10第1、3、5、6、7、8、10第1、3、5、6、7、8、10第1、3、5、6、7、8、10第1、3、5、6、7、8、10第1、3、5、6、7、8、10第1、3、5、6、7、8、10第1、3、5、6、7、8、10第1、3、5、6"},{"start":7058.496,"end":7084.12,"text":"第一三六案 環境母海送排放管道中 腫瘤氧化物檢測方法 全電地定法 恩愛業A405.75A 採訊委員會兼交社會福利及衛生環境委員會 宣布完畢第一三七案 環境母海會廢止排放管道中腫瘤氧化物檢測方法 全電地定法 恩愛業A405.75A 採訊委員會兼交社會福利及衛生環境委員會 宣布完畢第一三七案 環境母海會廢止排放管道中腫瘤氧化物檢測方法 全電地定法 恩愛業A405.75A 採訊委員會兼交社"},{"start":7084.62,"end":7103.447,"text":"第一三方案 環境部喊送碳肥專收費率陳修緣會兼交社會福利及外商環境委員會 宣讀完畢抱怨會本案由國民黨團體改交審查本案交社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查下一項第一三九案 環境部喊文憲政院環境保護署專業獎狀頒給頒發明確修正文環境部專業獎狀頒給頒發明確修正條文陳修緣會兼交社會福利及外商環境委員會 宣讀完畢無疑通過"},{"start":7112.608,"end":7116.951,"text":"報告院會第140案到234案請依序宣讀其中第143到146、149至151、153、155至162、164、165、167至170、201、212、230案台灣民眾黨團體改交審查"},{"start":7139.407,"end":7154.564,"text":"宣讀之後以上提案均改交相關委員會審查其餘的議案均照程序委員會意見通過請問院會有異議沒有異議我們請宣讀宣讀之後通過"},{"start":7155.885,"end":7182.417,"text":"第140案至第142案 國防部第143案 國軍退出官兵輔導委員會第144案至第150案 經濟部第151案 公民交易委員會第152案及第153案 財政部第154案至第156案 金融監督管理委員會第157案 中央銀行第158案 習近平主席總署第159案 文化部第160案 核能安全委員會第161案及第162案 國家科學及技術委員會第163案至第166案 交通部"},{"start":7183.197,"end":7211.08,"text":"第16青岸国家通讯传播委员会第16邦安局第170岸数位发展部第171岸经济部第172岸及第173岸国家科学及技术委员会第174岸中央研究院第175岸局第178岸教育部第179岸国立护工博物院第180岸文化部第181岸局第199岸交通部第200岸局第20青岸国家通讯传播委员会第208岸考选部第209岸局第213岸法务部第214岸局第215岸卫生福利部"},{"start":7211.48,"end":7238.375,"text":"第216案至第219案環境部第220案經濟部第221案至第226案交通部第227案國家通訊傳播委員會第228案至第234案衛生福利部捍衛各年度相關預算113年度中央政府總算附屬單位預算等預算決議分別簡訊相關報告宣讀完畢委員會第235案以下請硬幣宣讀宣讀之後我們均準於被查請宣讀"},{"start":7239.4,"end":7258.434,"text":"第二三五案為本院財政內政經濟教育及文化交通社會福利及物資環境委會函委員會將負責商貨處理中央政府嚴重特殊傳染性肺炎防治幾數萬成金特別預算案決議檔案均也於預算執行期間第二三六案為本院財政內政經濟教育及文化交通社會福利及物資環境委會函"},{"start":7258.914,"end":7279.77,"text":"委員會交付審查中央政府嚴重特殊傳染性肺炎防治及紓困陣型特別決算審核報告應與送到後一年內完成審議就期限原液決算法第28條視統審議通過第237案為本院經濟委員會函委員會交付審查用華玻璃股份有限公司管理委員會110年度預算書案等案均已於年度預算執行期間"},{"start":7280.43,"end":7303.82,"text":"第238案為本院經濟委會和委員會教育審查策略發展工業技術研究院110年度決算書等案均已於決算法第28條鎖定審議期限第239案為本院委員翁曉琳審判會登選第11屆第三會期陳述委員會召集委員諮詢事項本院委員質詢部分本院羅委員至強項行政委員提出質詢共和而建宣讀完畢"},{"start":7305.776,"end":7332.657,"text":"觀眾會本院今天有兩位委員過生日第一位是我們陳俊宇委員第二位是蔡易宇委員我們掌聲祝他們生日快樂好 觀眾會現在好 觀眾會我們現在針對行政院院長的施政方針及報告施政報告我們要繼續質詢在進行質詢之前我們先請傅明賞報告部會首長請假請行"},{"start":7334.554,"end":7351.719,"text":"報告院會行政院來函外交部林部長佳龍本日因公請假由吳次長置中代表列席客家委員會谷主任委員秀飛本日因事請假報告完畢好現在我們開始繼續進行施政質詢我們請王育民委員質詢"},{"start":7358.37,"end":7364.853,"text":"謝謝院長我們是不是有請卓院長還有顧立雄部長麻煩請卓院長備詢請國防部長備詢黃委員好院長好院長你昨天有參與總統所召開的官會嗎有參加有參加齁那這個昨天總統"},{"start":7387.93,"end":7414.397,"text":"正式召開記者會宣布台灣要恢復軍事審判這件事情其實引起你看今天所有的媒體都是頭版頭條引發高度的關注那過去民進黨特別是我要先請教我們的國防部部長過去在2013年的時候我們的顧立雄部長當時是人權律師"},{"start":7415.777,"end":7443.046,"text":"不知道你還記不記得你當時在洪仲秋案的時候你要幫他平反你當時還高喊就是我們絕對不允許軍法復辟就是當時是廢除了整個整個修法是廢除了軍事審判那這個當時呢軍事法庭他們曾經要釋憲的時候你還高喊絕對不允許軍法復辟"},{"start":7443.826,"end":7468.884,"text":"你當時喊得這麼大聲是要捍衛洪仲秋的軍中人權你說要捍衛許許多多在軍中這一些好朋友他們的人權請問您背棄了你的價值了嗎今天賴總統宣布要恢復軍事審判請問他是不是有背於你當時所主張的價值跟理念"},{"start":7470.32,"end":7498.358,"text":"跟委員報告過去的軍事審判確實有違反憲法而且不被人民信任的這樣子的一個情況所以我的見解並沒有改變過去的軍事審判確實是違反憲法那現在有改變了嗎現在也沒有改變啊這十年來有做任何的改變嗎接下來我當然要盡我個人最大的努力確保我們重新開機的軍事審判制度"},{"start":7499.138,"end":7507.684,"text":"會跟過去的制度是不一樣的我們要確保公平審判我們要確保合乎正當法律層級的原則那你的方案出來了嗎方案如果還沒有出來賴總統就已經高喊要恢復軍事審判那這是不是先設建再劃板他已經決定要恢復了"},{"start":7520.219,"end":7543.919,"text":"我們現在正在全盤的檢討修正軍事審判法那相關的配套措施比如說過去被詬病的這個軍法官的身份保障會被容易外部干預這個部分我們就要訂定軍法官人事條例然後呢也要訂定軍事法院的組織法提到法律的慰藉那軍事檢察署的組織法也要提到法律的慰藉"},{"start":7545,"end":7564.656,"text":"如果說修法就可以完成這些事項為什麼當年2013年的時候你那麼的堅持一步都不讓絕對要廢止軍事審判因為你不相信軍中他的這個官官相互的文化會有所改變當時你是非常非常堅定的"},{"start":7566.117,"end":7586.73,"text":"絲毫寸步不讓這個大家印象也非常的深刻但是你現在又說透過修法其實可以改善如果透過修法可以改善我記得當時國防部法務部也提出相關的說法他們也可以改善但是我記得是你當時並沒有給他們任何的機會你也絕對不可行"},{"start":7588.371,"end":7603.753,"text":"所以當時在民進黨的主導底下我想柯總召也在現場當時民進黨立院黨團包括這個顧立雄律師包括我們今天的外交部部長林佳王部長他當時是立法委員因為洪仲丘事件發生在台中市"},{"start":7604.474,"end":7628.659,"text":"你們的態度是寸步不讓你們認為這是最好的改革這是進步的改革我今天要問的是如果當時你們堅持這樣的一個價值跟理想覺得這個是最進步的象徵那今天我們軍中的人權是要倒退走了嗎你們當時捍衛軍中人權喊的正天尬響今天總統一句話你們就完全退讓"},{"start":7630.28,"end":7639.253,"text":"當總統提出這樣的一個恢復精神制度的時候你都沒有任何意見嗎你沒有表達反對嗎你沒有把你當時的堅持跟理想都說出來嗎"},{"start":7640.299,"end":7664.914,"text":"跟委員報告齁如果您去看現在的軍事審判法他並沒有完全廢除軍事審判制度的存在可能性也就是說呢平時是沒有的啊他平時是完全廢除的但是他暫時要恢復那麼平時如果我們不做好全盤的修正的規劃將軍事審判制度來合乎一個公平法院的設計的話到了暫時"},{"start":7668.154,"end":7695.374,"text":"我們如何憑空出現一個可以兼顧人權 真實發現然後能夠兼顧軍警的維護的這樣一個審判制度當你是人權律師的時候你怎麼沒有考慮到當時的國防部也這樣告訴你啊也有法務部也有這樣的聲音啊但是你們的價值跟主張就說這個完全不需要考慮就是一般的司法絕對會優於現在的軍事審判這個才是對人權最大的保障這是你們的堅持"},{"start":7696.944,"end":7713.716,"text":"當 我想 我現在沒有 我沒有變 我的見解沒有變就是說 我已經講過了我們現在要重新打造的一個軍事審判制度是符合一個公平法院設計的審判制度而要揮別過去那一段"},{"start":7714.637,"end":7732.678,"text":"被人詬病不被人信任的軍事審判這一點是重新開機重新打造而不是回復過去的那樣的軍事審判過去的國防部長主張的時候你們就認為他通通做不到他還是會關關相護這個是不可能的"},{"start":7733.218,"end":7756.308,"text":"為什麼到你當部長的時候你就覺得這個可以這個就是濁是驚非嗎接下來我要講的我想這個你的立場的轉變大家也看得非常的清楚我要問我們濁院長事實上我們現在的軍事審判制度只有到暫時的時候才會啟動當總統一宣布恢復軍事審判的時候是不是宣告我們要進入準戰爭的狀態"},{"start":7758.534,"end":7782.611,"text":"報告委員 並非如此當年廢除軍事審判著重的是國內的內在因素針對凌虐產生的對軍人的權我們現行的法條是這樣子嘛只有暫時才可以啟動恢復軍事審判嘛那當總統這樣宣告的時候為什麼今天這個都上了頭版很多民眾的感覺就是我們現在法定是這樣子講"},{"start":7784.212,"end":7805.69,"text":"暫時我們才啟動這個軍事審判所以當總統這樣一宣告的時候給人家的感覺就是那我們要進入準戰爭狀態了嗎所以各方面就是異於平時我們要做更好的準備是這樣子嗎我說當年是因為內在的因素今天是有外來的威脅我們多少的現役軍人因為不當的被利用被教守"},{"start":7806.172,"end":7831.06,"text":"而且被不同的條件被不同的人來引誘做了一些不利於國家的事情這來自外來的威脅不同於當年的內在威脅內在的因素從此我們現在也會加強軍法官人事的條例就軍法官他能夠成為一個更有法律程序完全訓練人權教育完全訓練的一個人事條例這樣一來我們只對"},{"start":7832,"end":7846.003,"text":"特定的對象現役軍人特定的軍事犯罪行為包括叛亂利敵洩密廢棄植物抗命五大行為的軍事犯罪特定對象特定行為而不是"},{"start":7846.923,"end":7875.637,"text":"停戰之分只是這些現役軍人我們不容許國家國人不容許他們有違背對國家忠誠義務的時候才會啟動當然我們不允許這樣子的一個情況發生但是當時修這個廢掉軍事審判平常時候完全絕對不能啟用的就是民進黨所以今天你們必須面對的就是著是今非這樣的一個問題大家都不知道你們立場為什麼做這麼大的一個"},{"start":7876.657,"end":7899.669,"text":"轉變喔另外一個就是昨天總統所宣告的這十七項事實上讓人民感覺到他的言論自由他的行動自由他的兩岸交流受到了很大的心理上的威脅因為用一些不確定的概念就是要來指控只要今天交流你可能就是中共同路人這一個部分"},{"start":7900.189,"end":7923.031,"text":"若並非如此民間我要告訴院長是民間的感受現在就是如此因為你列出來這17項通通都是限縮包括文化的包括教育的包括青年求學的甚至是連民意代表中央幾個地方的民意代表全部過去沒有管制的現在都要管制甚至是觀光業者也大跳腳就是"},{"start":7924.572,"end":7950.933,"text":"現在要去大陸旅遊的通通都要登陸報備那觀光業者也直接告訴你們啦如果這樣就宣布戒嚴就好了就說兩岸不交流就好了不用大費周章直接就說那從此以後不贊成大家就是兩岸交流兩岸交流從此可能會中斷這樣宣布是比較乾脆一點但是無論是旅遊、觀光、訪問、宗教活動把人帶到中國大陸去"},{"start":7952.422,"end":7972.114,"text":"卻沒有帶回來留在那邊的人難道政府一點都不需關心嗎當然要關心啊比例有很高嗎要音樂廢死嗎只是因為幾個案例然後就去阻礙了一般正常的交流嗎案例已經相當多了有多少來請說包括一貫道包括其他的宗教團體總共有多少案例來請報告這個我們會會後給是我們目前在中國大陸跟我們來舉報的案件我們加總結有71件"},{"start":7981.943,"end":7995.498,"text":"它是人身安全它被中國大陸是累計的還是每一年有71件從去年2024年到現在有71件包括那相較以往多少那相較於一年200萬人次的交流請問這個比例是高還是低"},{"start":8002.981,"end":8030.863,"text":"不能用比例來看任何一個國人我們都需要關心那我覺得院長不如你們就宣布說民進黨現在由賴總統主政其實是反對兩岸交流的這樣宣布真的比較快不要讓大家模擬兩可了在列十七項的話我覺得這個是大家就是多做功而已啦其實是真的就直接講說兩岸就是主張不交流了啦我真的覺得這樣比較快啦平常有序的健康有序的交流是我們在推動的"},{"start":8031.383,"end":8051.088,"text":"但你們現在是大幅限縮也不算健康現在要交流很心生恐懼因為很容易就被戴上一個紅帽子宗教大概沒有辦法自由的交流學術交流也說你這樣可能是有問題的你這樣是言過其實我們反而是推動健康有序的正常交流去風險化"},{"start":8053.849,"end":8063.199,"text":"怎麼去風險化你現在跟大陸都不交流到那邊的你也都愛莫能助啊現在你說70幾個你也沒有辦法去救人啊"},{"start":8064.161,"end":8086.841,"text":"那你怎麼去風險化現在的入委會是完全沒有功能的欸 主委真的很抱歉 我必須這樣子講入委會是要促進兩岸人民的相互之間的交流 你才有業務如果不交流 其實根本上你就沒有業務啊其實我們的組織應該要重新好好思考一下 要不要改造一下"},{"start":8088.98,"end":8093.344,"text":"我想請卓院長好好思考昨天賴總統他這樣子宣告之後對於整個台灣社會人心所產生的衝擊效應是什麼我剛講的不是危言聳聽真的大家心裡會覺得台灣是準備要打仗了嗎"},{"start":8107.279,"end":8131.042,"text":"民間這股聲音已經出來了如果治國我們是要安定民心的話事實上你們這樣一個做法我只能說其實還蠻不治的引起民心的騷亂接下來我要問另外一個重要能源的議題這個3月5號在政大國安中心那他們舉辦了一場兵推TTS區域的兵推這一場兵推請問這個左院長有掌握嗎知道嗎"},{"start":8133.062,"end":8149.969,"text":"這個階段兵推我沒有參加那這個部長有掌握嗎我想這個是民間所進行的一個你們國防部也沒掌握民間舉辦的你們應該要掌握這其中他特別提到他的兵推裡面他下的幾個參數"},{"start":8151.834,"end":8179.313,"text":"他裡面跑出來的發現台灣能源風險係數高達0.99呈現了一個緊急的狀態而那一場兵推當中AIT的前處長司徒文他其實也有參與他提出來的指引說台灣明明電力缺口其他國家都積極的擁抱核電為什麼民進黨政府對於核電有所排斥"},{"start":8180.214,"end":8199.791,"text":"而兵推結論的建議說台灣應該參考日本及韓國核能政策立即重啟既有核電廠提升電力系統的穩定及效率請問院長你對於這樣的一個兵推的結果這樣的一個建言你有什麼樣的看法"},{"start":8201.71,"end":8226.889,"text":"任何團體經過它嚴謹的程序所做出來的建議我想政府都應該列為重要的參考但是我們也會反覆的去檢驗它內部這個結果所呈現出來的這個資訊如果我們認為政府應該有調整的空間我們會樂於跟大家來做溝通所以院長你的態度是開放的嗎就是說對於這樣的一個結論你的態度是開放的嗎你個人有沒有排斥核電"},{"start":8228.25,"end":8252.258,"text":"你個人有沒有排斥核電核電現在不是個人的問題是在我們法律規定下它是一個我們在法律規定下如果說今天我們的能源風險已經危及到我們的國安了前面你說恢復軍事審判是因為國安危及到國安那如果今天已經有兵推的結果告訴你台灣的能源風險高達0.99呈現一種緊急狀態"},{"start":8256.926,"end":8273.605,"text":"我們要繼續反核嗎我們要繼續非核嗎還是國家安全比較重要在這樣的一個節骨眼我們應該以國家安全為優先我們的所謂的非核政策也可以考慮轉彎也可以考慮修改"},{"start":8274.289,"end":8302.313,"text":"我們在環境基本法裡面國家朝非核家園邁進這個是法律的規定可以修啊剛剛部長也說要修軍神法路徑很多那現在我們採取的是以發展多元綠能以及增加儲能增加各種方式節能來走向我們這個路徑那至於未來新的核能技術如果成熟發展台灣願意跟各國來接受這種先進科技的共同討論"},{"start":8303.174,"end":8325.589,"text":"研究甚至我們進一步來做各種的規劃所以院長你不排除核能這個選項嗎在我們的能源的多元能源裡面有沒有完全排除核能這個選項如果它能夠保障安全 核安的安全能夠沒有核廢料的處理而且社會上大家都普遍的共識我們當然願意跟新的核能技術來做更多的討論跟研發"},{"start":8327.23,"end":8347.571,"text":"所以我們不用繼續擁抱非核家園對不對以台灣現在我們的處境我們是獨立的島嶼然後在這樣的一個天然資源相對匱乏的情況底下我們還希望我們的台積電不要去美國多留在台灣我們的能源供應穩定一直是一個大問題啊"},{"start":8348.732,"end":8354.702,"text":"所以這一題如果你們前面在軍事審判上面立場做這麼大的一個轉彎為什麼非核這個議題不能轉彎我們是開放討論的如果有核安的保障有必要的時候可以使用核能對不對"},{"start":8364.597,"end":8389.335,"text":"有核安的保障沒有核廢料處理的困難社會有共同的共識我們都願意開放討論接受新核能技術的共同討論那未來如果立法院現在有相關的法案有關於核子反應器設施管制法的修法請問行政院您的書面報告意見是要贊成還是反對還是不置可否尊重立法院的決定"},{"start":8390.436,"end":8413.786,"text":"大院通過的法律沒有違背憲法的精神破壞五院的體制而能夠充分的討論民主的表決任何出來的行政院該遵守我們會尊重立法院所以你們不會表達反對的立場對不對對不起你不會表達反對的立場行政院不會表態反對核子反應器設施管制法的修法讓核三廠再研議如果這個在草原"},{"start":8414.929,"end":8422.671,"text":"大院草野內部的協商我們沒有表示意見但如果來問尋勝院的意見我們看草野協商的內容如何我們再一起討論"},{"start":8423.746,"end":8445.547,"text":"好我希望這個院長你應該拿出你的高度喔能源的問題其實沒有政黨之分他真的是為了國家的永續發展就是怎麼樣是一個穩定的能源選項所以在這一題方面我真的覺得非核家園可以退散了就是現在全世界沒有人在談非核都在談減碳"},{"start":8448.149,"end":8474.53,"text":"這個經濟部長應該也很清楚所以在符合世界潮流的趨勢底下加上美方已經多次的提醒連兵推前AIC處長都直白的講他不知道為什麼台灣不要使用核電都講得這麼大白話了我覺得我們的政策應該到了應該要去調整跟轉彎的時候希望到時候如果有相關的修法行政院可以拿出你的態度不應該是繼續的來阻擋"},{"start":8476.491,"end":8499.954,"text":"接下來我要問一個這個五月世界衛生大會又即將要召開了院長你知道嗎川普他一當選之後他就說他要退出世界衛生組織然後現在聯合國也已經證實了明年的1月22號美國正式退出WHO"},{"start":8501.714,"end":8522.231,"text":"過去我們說我們希望重返WHO我們希望拿到門票可以去開會但是這個消息傳出來我覺得對我們來講是一個非常不利的訊號當我們最強大的盟友美國都要退出WHO的時候"},{"start":8524.934,"end":8543.694,"text":"請問將來在裡面誰要幫台灣發聲誰要幫台灣建言說讓我們有機會再拿到門票重返世衛的大門是不是美國退出之後我們沒有機會重返世界衛生大會我們那個門再也進不去了"},{"start":8545.578,"end":8563.596,"text":"我國一直很積極的想要設法參與任何正式的國際社會的組織即使在目前政治環境下我們也認為有意義的參與是我們最少要達到的目標那麼在任何的國際組織裡面我們都還有我們的盟友盟邦可以幫我們"},{"start":8565.137,"end":8585.431,"text":"但是這個院長容我提醒你我們的友邦從2019年16個友邦現在已經掉到2024年只剩下11個友邦了我們的朋友真的也越來越少了那少了美國這個超級好朋友之後我們的力量會越來越薄弱我要問的是那我們的因應方案是什麼我們的因應策略對策到底是什麼"},{"start":8589.278,"end":8608.338,"text":"首先我國的公共衛生體系一樣是得到世界各國的肯定在這個情況底下我想我們會爭取更多即使是非我們的盟邦能夠共同在這個立機點上替我們發出正大的聲音台灣參與對國際組織是有利的對全球的公共衛生體系是有利的"},{"start":8608.718,"end":8622.707,"text":"那麼具體的措施之前我們都有很多的宣達團會有很多的工作要做你們還沒有研擬相關的措施吧有嗎外交部有方案嗎衛福部有方案嗎這個訊息你們有看見嗎報告委員我們參與世界委員組織美國當然是我們最重要的門幫"},{"start":8628.612,"end":8655.575,"text":"那第二大在世界衛生組織貢獻最大的在財務上是德國那歐洲歐盟各國在這邊都有非常大的貢獻其實我們參與世界衛生組織我們已經可以聽到很多次像法國像德國不斷在表達支持台灣的有意義參與所以其實強化目前外交部的方案是強化跟歐洲這些在世界衛生組織有強大的影響市長我就指擺了為今年五月"},{"start":8656.596,"end":8676.358,"text":"請問在世衛大會裡面會積極幫我們發聲的會有幾個國家會有幾個盟友這是我們現在正在努力的但我們確認我們絕對會有民主國家或是歐洲國家一定會發聲支持我們會比去年更多嗎現在我們正在努力當中因為這還是有一段時間這就是外交部現在正在做的事情"},{"start":8677.452,"end":8692.047,"text":"我想這個部分大概次長也不敢給出任何的承諾跟保證我只是要讓院長跟部長們看到我們的國際局勢也沒有我們想像的那麼好特別是川普上任之後他有他自己的政策主張"},{"start":8693.328,"end":8714.553,"text":"他不見得一些國際組織他要繼續待在裡面如果我們仰賴的是美國的力量的話那我們恐怕還要再去思考要再去多爭取其他的盟友更加大力量我們在國際上面我們想要再繼續加入一些國際組織可能才有希望要不然連美國自己都退出了"},{"start":8715.353,"end":8742.366,"text":"我們哪有什麼力量可以加入這個情境對我們來講其實是很險峻的我希望大家上緊發條知道在國際局勢上面並沒有我們自己想像的那麼的穩定這個部分真的是請我們的外交團隊要多努力接下來我要問的是謝謝委員我覺得我們的國際情勢當然不是那麼的順暢但最大的障礙是來自中國而不是幫我們的人是阻擋我們的人才是我們最大的對手"},{"start":8743.285,"end":8766.234,"text":"他的挑戰一直都在這個是我們早就知道的所以我們自己要想辦法再去做更大的突破當民進黨政府選擇跟對岸持續對立的時候這個狀況只會更糟不會更好所以這個就是你們要有心理準備的接下來我要講的是我們的觀光我們的觀光出入人次逆差達到899萬"},{"start":8770.995,"end":8771.778,"text":"產值逆差高達6,922億"},{"start":8776.29,"end":8799.965,"text":"這個部分呢觀光部訂下了千萬的觀光人士來台灣但是2024年還是沒有打到這個部分我不會責怪交通部因為交通部已經非常努力了他們在外國人來到台灣的部分也有一些的增加那這當中呢其實缺的是什麼 入客"},{"start":8801.206,"end":8829.127,"text":"其實大家可以看到雖然我們現在這個兩岸很緊張這個賴政府可能覺得陸客來不來沒有什麼關係我讓你看看鄰近國家是怎麼做的新加坡他們也有自己的獨立自主但是他沒有抗拒陸客他讓陸客來我二月份才去訪問新加坡我看到了他們的欣欣向榮他們整個經濟力的提升那因為他採取的是一個開放策略"},{"start":8829.807,"end":8846.609,"text":"所以新加坡的入客觀光人數是佔他們的觀光的第一名然後產值將近1700億我們鄰近的日本日本跟大陸的關係也沒有很好但是日本入客的觀光人數高達"},{"start":8850.773,"end":8866.04,"text":"689萬然後也佔了3000多億的觀光產值台灣呢台灣我們進入客團所以呢我們來的入客觀光人數呢43萬然後我們的產值大概只有200億"},{"start":8867.771,"end":8881.289,"text":"過去台灣也曾經有這個入客達到3000消費產值的情況那現在很慘只剩下這個三四十萬那觀光業者一再請命希望說這個"},{"start":8883.591,"end":8899.263,"text":"進入客團可不可以不要再進了但是昨天賴總統宣告這個兩岸的多項限制政策之後我想這個觀光業者應該可以死心了入客團應該從此不會來台灣了吧"},{"start":8903.406,"end":8915.885,"text":"這個陸委會主委是不是可以大膽預言昨天這樣的一個政策宣告兩岸關係更緊張所以不要想陸客團來台灣這件事情了這個觀光業者可以不用再陳情了浪費時間"},{"start":8917.592,"end":8934.571,"text":"跟委員報告有關於入客來台我們政府主張先透過觀光小兩會就旅遊的安全品質跟穩定性以及它的公平性先來做溝通然後再來做開放"},{"start":8935.692,"end":8950.326,"text":"我們也希望陸方趕快有回應就如同我們現在對於陸客來台我們國人有非常多不同的意見我們施作民調也有百分之超過七成的人支持政府的作為相對的"},{"start":8951.847,"end":8975.58,"text":"主委,你有做民調是不是?你那份民調什麼時候做的?可不可以把民調提供給我辦公室,好不好?也提供給媒體你說有七成的民眾反對入客來台不是,不是反對支持政府透過小兩會把應該要商定的部分講好,溝通完再來開放國人是支持政府的作為"},{"start":8976.82,"end":9003.84,"text":"沒有做過這樣的一個民調所以你覺得你現在的路線是正確的就繼續堅持小兩會然後都不要開放也沒有關係跟業者展現政府的作為是跟他們站在一起的維護整體整個國人安全業者也都支持我們到現在官方業者對外發表的意見都是政府在阻擋啊他們都在國土哀求啊部分只有少數人"},{"start":9004.46,"end":9024.975,"text":"大部分的業者都支持政府的作為跟立場因為唯有這樣才能把過去光光一點零的亂象降到最低你不要活在自己的世界裡面了沒有 我們都是跟業者保持密切的溝通你自我感覺非常良好讓我嚇出一身冷汗了你跟民意脫節其實非常的嚴重啊"},{"start":9025.515,"end":9038.222,"text":"那我想問一下觀光部的部長你接觸到的業者觀光署這邊接觸到的業者是希望就是陸委會堅持到底然後都不要鬆動也不要開放然後讓陸客團都不要來台灣是這樣子嗎業者都很滿意"},{"start":9041.204,"end":9058.537,"text":"報告委員其實所有的業者都希望入客如果來台灣能夠有序以外要有品質所以我們一直希望有品質的狀況底下希望小兩會好好的去談未來入客來台灣之後要怎麼保障入客的權益讓他們住好的飯店有好的旅途的這個過程那你們現在談的結果是一個入客團都不來啊"},{"start":9062.6,"end":9065.541,"text":"一個陸客團都不來好不容易蔣萬安市長幫你們鋪了一條路這個藉由海峽論壇藉由這個城市交流然後呢好不容易上海他們也說他們可以組團來結果就是不接求啊陸委會強硬到底啊"},{"start":9081.227,"end":9092.099,"text":"該接的球不接然後就讓他掉到地上然後呢繼續喊說我們已經堅持小兩會我們是不希望路透說斷就斷 說停就停但是我要告訴大家的是請以民生為念請以人民為念"},{"start":9098.786,"end":9124.433,"text":"有多少的觀光業者他們現在是嗷嗷待哺他們需要這樣的生意你知道過去他們可以來的時候像我現在在跑嘉義縣過去阿里山是他們會去的那邊的茶農他會買茶葉他會去餐廳消費現在阿里山我們雖然榮登全國這全世界最值得來觀光的地方但是它的來客人數下降啊為什麼"},{"start":9125.513,"end":9129.798,"text":"少了過去大陸客他們來的消費跟觀光這個人是回不去啦"},{"start":9131.411,"end":9157.616,"text":"那怎麼辦當地人民的生活怎麼辦不是只堅持你想堅持的講你想講的我覺得所有的官員今天為官知道是你要服務人民而人民要什麼這個就是你的政策應該去思考的嘛不是這個死板板一塊嘛你看人家日本他現在要對陸客發放簽證新開放的有效期限是10年的旅遊簽證即使他們"},{"start":9158.476,"end":9181.605,"text":"跟大陸的關係沒有那麼好但是在商言商可以賺入客的錢為什麼不賺呢新加坡也是這樣子所以新加坡他們現在GDP比我們高啊人家現在收入比我們高因為該賺的錢還是得賺我覺得這個才是讓人民過上好生活我希望這個院長跟部長你們可以把人民的利益永遠好 謝謝王玉民委員的資訊謝謝左院長以及各部會首長的備詢"},{"start":9190.592,"end":9203.009,"text":"歡迎 現在在議場二樓旁邊來自美麗花蓮瑞穗鄉一些好朋友 我們掌聲歡迎很遠的地方來 好 謝謝再接下來我們請邱議員委員質詢陳昭智委員請準備"},{"start":9223.069,"end":9227.392,"text":"謝謝主席 我是不是請一下卓院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢卓院長早剛剛前一位王育民委員質詢的最後一句話我不曉得您有沒有聽清楚"},{"start":9245.111,"end":9271.342,"text":"他問的是請您把人民的利益擺在最前面他問的是請您把人民的利益擺在最前面他很了解我我今天要問你的是當人民的少數的這些人民的利益跟國家的利益衝突的時候哪一個重要哪一個要放在前面昨天賴總統的談話"},{"start":9273.837,"end":9296.152,"text":"中國是境外敵對勢力所以他要恢復軍事審判因應滲透院長這句話對嗎有說錯了哪裡嗎我認為完全沒有錯中國是境外敵對勢力中國當然是境外"},{"start":9297.401,"end":9317.485,"text":"他每天飛機軍艦飛機來台灣繞不時在台灣周遭做不同狀況的演習定時不定時而且對他的這個海警船對我們的漁船也不時的騷擾甚至他的很多的權威輪也破壞我們的海欄難道我們會把他定義為一個對我們友善"},{"start":9318.171,"end":9340.181,"text":"或是一般的對象嗎所以當然是對我們來看它是有相當的敵意如果面對這樣的一個境外敵對的勢力每天不只利用各種的階段文攻武嚇您剛剛講到的是武嚇的部分文攻的部分我待會再繼續跟您討論"},{"start":9342.034,"end":9352.116,"text":"為什麼賴總統說要恢復軍事審判我想這個數字行政院應該掌握得很清楚中國正在滲透我們的國軍"},{"start":9353.867,"end":9377.579,"text":"現在到2024年共諜起訴的對象有66%是軍人滲透的幾乎都是軍人但是依照現行的法令這些叛國的出賣國家安全利益的他們所受到的判刑其實都相對非常的輕微院長您同意我的看法嗎"},{"start":9379.127,"end":9407.446,"text":"他對我們的民間也透過各種關係來做他們自己有利於他對方更嚴重的是對軍中的人士我們的現役軍人所以對於現役軍人或者是退役軍人採取不斷的這一種滲透的手段小的時候我們上學的時候都要背一句話叫做保密綁諜人人有責就在你身邊小心匪諜就在你身邊"},{"start":9408.82,"end":9410.708,"text":"我現在覺得匪諜無所不在啊"},{"start":9412.059,"end":9438.07,"text":"共諜無所不在啊剛剛講的是武嚇文工的部分呢透過宗教公廟的交流透過村里長的交流透過文化藝術的交流透過媒體的滲透甚至我都懷疑透過立法院國會議員在這裡進行文工武嚇在這裡進行滲透啊這不恐怖嗎"},{"start":9442.512,"end":9468.574,"text":"這不嚇人嗎會有委員 國會的議員在開議前 開議中要到中國去聽命 領旨然後回來做進行顛覆政府的工作這不嚇人嗎所以我們要對這種滲透的行為我們要有積極有效的反制所以反滲透是我們現階段很重要的工作所以喔 院長我現在要跟您提的就是說"},{"start":9469.793,"end":9496.989,"text":"如果昨天賴總統的這一個恢復軍事審判是針對軍人的職責不涉及一般的治安犯罪我是大力支持而我認為國防部在軍審法的這些相關法令的配套上面甚至會不會有國安法庭的相關的配套上面應該要加速去進行賴部長您同意我的看法嗎"},{"start":9499.248,"end":9518.768,"text":"跟委員報告,我想就剛剛講的就是說,飛虎軍事審判它的範圍就是現役軍人,軍人職務上的犯罪這一塊,也就是屬於陸海空軍刑法第二篇相關的這些犯罪,所以不涉及"},{"start":9519.449,"end":9543,"text":"有關於他一般的刑事案件也不涉以非現役軍人的部分所以這個沒有扯到什麼所謂的軍中人權的問題我們談的是它涉及了國家安全妨礙了國家安全的部分我覺得這個在你們的軍事法庭或者是這些國安法庭的設計上面我不知道未來你們會不會有所謂的國安法庭"},{"start":9544.1,"end":9568.788,"text":"但是在你的這個軍審法恢復的時候我認為相關的配套措施國防部是不是要盡速研議對 我們會來盡速研議過去被人詬病的這些相關有一些不符合憲法意旨的部分我們都會來進行大幅的一個檢討修正那主要當然就是說因為這些還是有涉及一些軍事專業的一個壁"},{"start":9570.51,"end":9593.911,"text":"的這個專業性應該是這樣講所以涉及到軍事專業性所以我們會來檢討就是說像這些要從事軍閥審判的這些審判人員他可能要具有一定的部隊的實務的經驗那麼他經過透過多元徵選的管道那把著之後給他一定的身份保障之後來確保他的獨立性之後那我們來從事相關的這樣的一個審判"},{"start":9595.152,"end":9623.26,"text":"一方面能夠兼顧這個人權同時能夠嚴肅軍紀這是我們現在努力的方向我想這個部分我是全力的支持那我也希望國防部能夠加速的來進行對於人權的保障固然這是非常的重要但是對於國家安全的維護會是在我們這個階段裡頭非常非常重要的一項工作這個我也要請國防部來多加進行"},{"start":9625.753,"end":9640.785,"text":"剛剛部長說得非常清楚 重新啟動的軍事審判針對特定對象 它裡面的特定的軍事犯罪行為跟過去的軍事審判是截然不同的我們有一句話說 同樣不一樣這件事不一樣不一樣是嘛 所以剛才有人就是偷換概念嘛"},{"start":9645.549,"end":9672.522,"text":"他就跟你講說軍中人權怎樣怎樣怎樣說說民進黨現在這個換了位子換了腦袋完全不顧軍中人權但是我們現在恢復的軍事審判是針對特定的對象特定的議題不涉及一般的治安犯罪嘛我覺得這個部分也要對外來說明清楚喔那這個台灣的國家安全重不重要當然非常重要啊"},{"start":9673.837,"end":9695.433,"text":"台灣的人民藉由宗教的交流去到中國你覺得沒有政治嗎如果沒有政治為什麼一貫道的信徒在那裡會被抓起來你覺得一般的商業交流沒有政治嗎如果沒有政治的話為什麼跟著國民黨立法院的總召去到香港也會被抓起來人在哪裡還不知道還救不回來"},{"start":9696.755,"end":9719.983,"text":"你覺得一般的學生的參訪沒有政治嗎如果沒有政治的話為什麼那些學生來到台灣會講中國台北你覺得一般的藝人來到中國會沒有政治嗎昨天楊子瓊女士到101參加一個珠寶展她本來講說很開心來到這個國家回去之後她的臉書她的IG寫的是中國台北"},{"start":9721.069,"end":9745.561,"text":"沒有政治嗎政治無所不在啊滲透無所不在啊破壞無所不在啊所以我覺得政府現在真的是應該硬起來啊針對境外敵對勢力我百分之百支持政府這樣做所以我也要請國防部陸委會真的要強硬起來喔好不好好 那我接下來要請問第二個議題喔這個兩位可以請回喔院長"},{"start":9750.899,"end":9767.366,"text":"我記得去年6月14號問您的時候我們談的是復一案當時是講國會擴權你說你相信人類有高尚的心靈立委是正義的化身所以復一會過不過從去年到現在您已經連五敗復一一直不會過那復一不過呢國會擴權可能跟民生可能他們還不覺得什麼"},{"start":9778.753,"end":9804.639,"text":"總預算沒過應該怎麼辦呢過去我們的賴總統一直講他要一憲一法如果一憲一法的話這個總預算沒過十天之內就要公佈實施很顯然這個總預算你們是沒有辦法做的我想請教行政院的救濟管道是什麼現在我們確實遇到相當大的困難比如說監察院他幾乎是完全被刪除的跟凍結的"},{"start":9806.929,"end":9831.206,"text":"現在連他們的調查費 他們都很難支應他們連水電費都付不出來 還欠費喔我知道啊 其實有一些部會是被刪過頭了嘛被刪過頭那個更多嘛 完全是刪到複數嘛業務費100%被刪掉 或者是被刪掉99% 大有部會所在但是院長我要請教你 你接下來的救濟管道是什麼"},{"start":9831.866,"end":9859.248,"text":"你如果要申請釋憲依照現在的憲訴法規定參與評議的要多過十個大法官違憲宣告要多於九個大法官但是現在很珠息我們只有八個大法官這樣要怎麼處理你要走這條路看起來也走不通啊如果要等總統重新提名然後等這個立法院又通過人事同意權我不知道要等多久那這段時間怎麼辦"},{"start":9861.741,"end":9882.134,"text":"這個依照憲法的規定跟精神 我們當然還有憲政的救濟啦對啦 我剛剛跟你講的就是憲政的救濟嘛依照過去的案例 91年的案例 是經由兩院繼續的協商但是我不曉得現在這種協商的基礎是否存在以及協商後續的執行是否可能"},{"start":9883.288,"end":9909.873,"text":"我不知道你們要怎麼協商啦派誰來協商 誰能夠主持協商 誰說了算過去的行政立法兩院是兩院的院長坐下來協商院長 立法院的院長有絕對的主導權可是我不知道現在國民黨看這個立法院院長沒有啊看他沒有啊院長說要來協商 人家沒有要理他"},{"start":9911.909,"end":9931.815,"text":"那你要怎麼協商那你接下來你會面臨到的這些比如說我剛剛講的預算三過頭你們預算要怎麼執行你的空窗期現在預算要怎麼執行我不知道你接下來要怎麼辦那你們我現在要後面要講到的是跟地方的補助是有相關的"},{"start":9932.964,"end":9947.011,"text":"對不對中央的部會沒有辦法執行地方的建設要不要繼續做地方的建設要不要繼續做當然要繼續做啊台中市長第一個出來喊他說不管復議過不過都不應該煽動地方的補助款"},{"start":9948.046,"end":9967.478,"text":"好啦 如果他這麼在意地方的補助款他台中有這麼多的子弟兵 為什麼不支持復議案呢為什麼不支持地方的建設呢那為什麼讓我們這一些支持總預算的支持要大幅增加台灣建設的立法委員來擔這個後果呢院長你可以告訴我為什麼嗎 我不太懂欸"},{"start":9972.463,"end":9987.694,"text":"所以你們的那個三個排除條件喔我建議你再增加一個排除條件就是停總預算的立委他的縣市不應該被你們排除建設經費您可以同意我嗎"},{"start":9991.892,"end":10017.729,"text":"停總預算的立委對總預算的支持的委員還是相當多數我覺得他們很著重的是一方面要國家的發展一方面要地方的建設同時要中央地方財政均衡合理所以我們對對方的補助對方的任何的發展我們會朝健康的方向去想你講的這個很委婉你會朝健康的方向去做"},{"start":10019.911,"end":10041.941,"text":"我就直接問你高雄啦高雄的巴西立委拼得要死我們好不容易從過去小英總統的時代從蘇貞昌院長或者是賴清德當行政院長的那個一路下來給高雄這麼多的建設給高雄這麼多可以往前邁進一大步的機會"},{"start":10044.543,"end":10056.481,"text":"財化把 富翼輸掉了 高雄竟然是最大的輸家高雄竟然是最大的輸家喔我看到這個財化把我實在是頭都昏掉了花蓮增加228%"},{"start":10060.37,"end":10082.945,"text":"我不是說花蓮不值得但是花蓮增加這麼多結果高雄是最少的高雄只有增加49%所有的部會裡面它是增加最少的那高雄需不需要建設高雄當然需要大建設啊甚至我們現在都在跟您談未來高雄機場的運量很快到2045年就會達到飽和"},{"start":10087.213,"end":10114.34,"text":"包括陳市長包括我本席包括幾位的立委我們都一直在大力疾呼行政院應該要開始開啟高雄新機場的規劃這是一個往前看20年的重大建設這是一個讓高雄再起飛讓高雄更好的一個重大的轉折點可是因為這樣的才化把因為這樣的一個補助案"},{"start":10118.144,"end":10141.972,"text":"復一沒通過你是扼殺了地方的大幅發展院長您要怎麼做所以支持中央有更健全財政能力的委員當然會得到中央更多的支持那如果把錢都放下到地方去這樣不合理的規劃之下未來地方就由地方所以高雄的巴西對行政院是"},{"start":10151.8,"end":10178.191,"text":"好 謝謝邱毅英委員的質詢謝謝卓院長 各部會首長的備詢各位現在在議場二樓旁聽的來自於台北護理健康大學的同學們未來的棟樑 歡迎你們 掌聲歡迎我們在議場右邊來自台中市東區的所有的好朋友熱情歡迎大家接下來我們請陳昭之委員質詢賴瑞龍委員請準備"},{"start":10195.619,"end":10199.12,"text":"謝謝主席有請卓院長謝謝麻煩再請卓院長備詢陳委員好院長好院長2月26號的時候邱部長他帶著一群官員去視察了幾家這個醫院的這個急診擁塞的問題當他出來的時候他向媒體說急診擁塞"},{"start":10226.931,"end":10237.86,"text":"這個篩報已經趨緩了那這句話後來引起醫護的大反彈那為什麼呢因為它不是真相那為什麼不是真相呢那個院長因為官員當然不是部長本身官員向來他要視群"},{"start":10242.303,"end":10262.595,"text":"視察很多單位的時候他都會事先讓他們知道嘛那你看大家都習慣性要先做現場的清理還戰場的清理就好像說我們家裡有客人來然後我們就會清理一下這個客廳之類的這樣做法所以部長如果真的要去了解真相的時候"},{"start":10263.635,"end":10289.585,"text":"是不是應該採用這個不事先通知不預告式的方式那你才有辦法得到真相啊所以你當你說這個趨緩的時候後來醫護是大反彈我對於我這樣的建議我不知道院長您的想法如何實際狀況不長清楚但是我認為我們對衛福部在處理這件事情很多的方法我們可以給他很多的建議"},{"start":10290.754,"end":10307.214,"text":"指正但是對他們的態度還是給他們基本的尊重我們支持但是我也跟其中的院長了解他們長官來他總是要做習慣性清理戰場嘛這是一個習慣性的動作這請邱部長回答因為我知道他那天跑了好幾個醫院到底狀況如何"},{"start":10307.995,"end":10317.683,"text":"部長我知道因為這不是您做但是我現在想要談這個官場文化我的重點不在於就是說那天這個狀況後來醫護反彈你這個小颱風掃過以後醫護反彈啦對不對我跟委員報告一下謝謝謝謝委員關心那我想"},{"start":10327.21,"end":10353.728,"text":"如果說只要數據的話這些醫院所有的後床我們都掌握在手上可是我們真的是想要去給他打氣所以絕對不是視察而且這所有的院長大家都是非常熟悉的好朋友他們也事後都表達所有的醫院的院長甚至公開給媒體說他們完全是正常的運作"},{"start":10357.491,"end":10371.582,"text":"對 你可以不要增加急診然後你就增加樓上的樓頂我們是要死了嗎你都要逼死我們了我們護理人員這麼密切嗎真的不想幹 無能 不能幹你就下台啊部長就下台啊 社長更應該要下台啊不能夠體會我們然後眼睛都長在頭頂上所以我們小網幹"},{"start":10374.451,"end":10383.015,"text":"院長我是想跟你討論一個官場文化啦我們不得不承說當年那個交通部長連湛先生他當年就是說他面對這個人家指責說台北的交通混亂難行然後面對這樣指責他回答說他每天中午都有回家用餐但是沒有浪費多少時間但是我覺得部長當時連部長他不知道他棄派的部長車前面有所謂的這個引導車"},{"start":10403.843,"end":10406.945,"text":"他會引導開到前導車還有交通警察也會去控制紅綠燈所以他一路暢通無阻當然回家的路是很順暢的所以我想起這一段連在交通部長當時對台北交通的評語因為他是交通部長"},{"start":10421.776,"end":10448.946,"text":"邱部長您要去了解到底急診擁塞到什麼狀況其實有點類似就是有一點點不食肉糜的這個情況所以我的意思是說院長我今天想跟您討論這樣的官場文化是不是我們可以思考來改變我想請教院長院長您知道那個銀行查核金庫庫存是用什麼方式嗎您知道嗎那是它的核心查核項目"},{"start":10449.585,"end":10460.58,"text":"如果是不定期的查核會比較產生效果不只喔他們是這樣第一個不預先告知第二個他一大早門還沒有開就站在銀行面前門一開他就進去查因為什麼因為這樣才有真相嘛"},{"start":10465.607,"end":10493.775,"text":"有真相就知道如何解決問題嘛這樣才能解決問題所以我是想請院長考慮一下官場文化啦我們要去視察齁第一個也不要勞師動眾啦第二個也不要事先通知讓他們準備當然你去安慰他打氣他是OK的可是那天我們明明要是了解一個大危機啊急診庸篩的大危機啊所以這個銀行才去甩surprise check所以院長您同意這個觀念跟想法嗎是的"},{"start":10495.681,"end":10520.052,"text":"謝謝院長好 那外部部後來說要就醫分流嘛那就醫分流就要談分級醫療談分級醫療就談醫院評鑑啦好 那我讓院長知道金週刊在2015年就做過一個專題啦他指出現在的醫院評鑑是假面台灣的縮影這都是他的用詞喔不少認證或評鑑是為了製造這個醫院它有完善的管理的一個假象但是我要告訴"},{"start":10521.312,"end":10549.328,"text":"兩位我想部長都知道醫護人員他為了處理為了應付評鑑其實他花很多時間在整理資料甚至有時候必須有點虛印甚至造假這個名詞還是他們的而且這些造假已經危及醫療品質了其實我現在拿這些話去問我的好朋友醫院的高層他們也都是不否認那我要告訴院長的是現在的醫院評鑑每年都花很多的錢跟人力但"},{"start":10550.589,"end":10560.857,"text":"但是深隔的醫院越來越多 院長你有覺得很奇怪嗎你明明聽到醫護人員說我們是血汗 我們是血汗然後他們要出走 醫護人員說要出走"},{"start":10561.994,"end":10580.851,"text":"那為什麼醫院評鑑的成績越來越好大家一直升格通過的越來越多而且一直往上升院長你不覺得奇怪嗎你不覺得這件事很奇怪嗎我們的醫院評鑑的制度已經20年沒有大幅度的修改我覺得現在是應該必須要進到"},{"start":10582.011,"end":10607.433,"text":"大幅度而且有目前針對這種社會現象修改的時候我也要求院長認同就是說我們明明知道他們的聲音明明知道他的困境怎麼會成績是越來越好這是一個很奇怪的所以衛福部是否該研議我知道這有點困難但是總要起步如何讓醫院評鑑也效法銀行金庫查庫存的精神不事先通知"},{"start":10608.254,"end":10636.118,"text":"做surprise check不事件通知然後你才有機會得到真相啊不然呢 評鑑當天都是滿分啊什麼都沒有問題啊 急診也沒有篩報啊平常日呢 那一天看起來工作量合理啊人力也都足夠平常天呢 你三四年才評鑑一次耶其他的日子怎麼辦部長請你想想看因為院長也不反對我們去研議這個方向嘛我們要去真相嘛在國外也有人這樣做啊"},{"start":10636.837,"end":10660.535,"text":"報告委員 現行的制度是不是部長可以說明一下我們現在有抽查的機制 不定期的追蹤 輔導那是因為被發現缺點啦 我也當過評鑑委員欸 十年喔現在有 但是我們把它更健全我覺得應該要發揮到效果 依照現在的社會現象部長 因為這是過去長久的做法啦我覺得你是在概括成說 但是是不是可以演繹 我們總要進步嘛我們方法總要進步嘛"},{"start":10661.836,"end":10677.026,"text":"報告委員,我們已經成立醫院評鑑改革小組由你很熟悉的蔡森田教授當招集人要換一些腦袋不同的人去處理剛剛提的意見我們都會把它列入評鑑裡面來考論如果延期過去就沒有,謝謝你啦,至少要去檢討好,那院長,去年就有人向我檢舉喔台大醫院流管床,場域最近吧,我們就去看那待會教授他不定時都會寄照片給我那個流管床常態的擁塞到正門大廳喔"},{"start":10690.835,"end":10697.562,"text":"因為那個正門大廳有一個舞台那個舞台可以辦活動可以辦音樂會你知道嗎旁邊有流觀場還繼續辦音樂會這是台大醫院當然我不說責任我們要怎麼來討論那我當時有請台大醫院我們都母校部長這個請他來說明"},{"start":10711.556,"end":10722.491,"text":"那當然我的重點第一個先問嘛因為我們都知道一定有上面的病床的問題我先問台大醫院他來的是副院長跟一個急診部副主任那我就問他說你們護理師足夠嗎他們立馬告訴我說台大醫院不缺護理師"},{"start":10728.297,"end":10743.665,"text":"不過這個跟後來的台大工會跟我講的不太一樣他們告訴我那下來我當然問他一個內行人的話那我問他說那醫院評鑑那天呢因為不會過嘛這是不對的嘛因為怎麼讓劉官常塞到正門大廳呢"},{"start":10744.625,"end":10770.446,"text":"他們很老實跟我講說我們會清乾淨就是這樣子那難怪這個醫改會這個劉前董事長說醫院評鑑戲都排好了不會有意外有一師身份的有一位這個衛福全院士他公開投書表示碰通虛偽的醫院評鑑制度敗壞醫療評鑑委員缺乏現實感或同理心條文越來越嚴"},{"start":10771.747,"end":10800.445,"text":"那越定越脫離現實當然這個院士他是從不同角度切入他認為你定的太嚴但是結果都是一樣都是沒有真相所以我是不是可以再一次鄭重的要求醫院評鑑也應該效法銀行金庫查困處的精神盡量不做事先告知的一個評鑑否則沒有真相我今天可不可以得到院長您往這個方向去研議呢"},{"start":10801.164,"end":10823.535,"text":"是的 剛剛部長答覆我們已經有醫院評鑑改革小組既然我們委任這個改革小組進行未來的精進的作為那我的重點是那這個就要帶到改革小組裡面去 是的說委員級的建議要把這樣的機制放到未來的評鑑機制裡面去當然有些東西可以準備但是有些事情你要真相就是你現場去看他怎麼照顧病人啊"},{"start":10824.275,"end":10836.8,"text":"你可以直接突襲啊 平常怎麼照顧病人不是四年考試一次才那一天怎麼照顧病人報告委員 我們都長期當過評鑑委員我想評鑑委員都是非常德高望重而且都是當過院長級的人他們應該很了解這從structural process以及outcome這幾個來評鑑但是如果說"},{"start":10851.886,"end":10865.898,"text":"委員的意見我們一定列入評鑑改革小組來看我們試試看有沒有真相我們評鑑餐廳秘密課的方式工作量都合理人力都足夠一個秘密的評鑑委員不露身分去了解現場的狀況"},{"start":10867.179,"end":10874.022,"text":"回來以後大家收集起來叫苦連天結果成績都越來越好今年是健保30週年那我跟院長談一個法健保法規定政府應該負擔36%的保費經費我想說一直以來這個36%有沒有負滿、負足、負夠"},{"start":10886.188,"end":10901.775,"text":"這個部分我等一下稍後跟院長討論那天賴總統跟邱部長您都出席了健保三十永續研討會照片上的人物都被認為是這幾十年來對健保非常有貢獻的人其中楊志良署長他面臨嚴重虧損的時候他講了一些話他認為調漲保費才能減緩問題維持永續經營跟社會公益當時他這樣說"},{"start":10912.64,"end":10917.423,"text":"健保不能倒 醫療不能少 保費不能漲 只有請上帝當署長啊院長你能夠同意這句話嗎我們還是有很負責而努力的服務人員這個健保保費的調整一直是最後的手段我們過去也是用到補充保費而已那目前也不輕易的動 我是認為"},{"start":10935.334,"end":10940.12,"text":"還是我過去講的一句話小病不要保大病沒煩惱因為醫療進步太快了啦太快的話他像這種精準醫療啊等等他是非常的昂貴嘛因為他的研究方式啊等等規格越來越高就是時代過了啦那30年嘛"},{"start":10955.997,"end":10968.703,"text":"那貴黨在執政第九年啦你貴黨也很有機會長期執政啊所以你要承擔這個責任嘛你知道其實三十年來只有三次漲保費一次還是陳總統時代那個李明亮署長他就把保費漲了然後華麗轉身下台"},{"start":10972.945,"end":11001.243,"text":"楊志良署長也一樣啊他把保費占了結果他呢承擔政治責任下台可是現在搞成政治議題啦現在搞到每一位衛福部部長上來都宣稱我任內不占保費部長你不要講喔你去年8月也講了這句話我要告訴院長的是說院長我們當然知道人性嘛人性有它的弱點或是它的限制點但是我們總是要跟民眾溝通嘛"},{"start":11002.202,"end":11010.234,"text":"你要跟他溝通 你怎麼認得讓這個醫護人員他們繼續做功德啊那直到有一天醫療大崩壞啊你現在看到急診 將來看到整個醫療大崩壞啊所以院長就請你思考一下齁我常常呼籲國人"},{"start":11018.539,"end":11034.273,"text":"三十年來我們受到健保的保障國人的健康現在經過三十年是我們回頭去保障健保制度的時代每個人要知道自己多負一點責任讓這個健保延續下去也是留給我們後代子孫最大的一個健康的保障"},{"start":11034.895,"end":11037.858,"text":"謝謝院長因為部長您在承諾說不漲保費當然我有過去的包袱但是你也承諾一個重點你有提說提高政府負擔健保經費剛剛我提到36%考慮到提到38%很多人支持提高政府負擔健保經費"},{"start":11055.615,"end":11073.094,"text":"我現在要告訴院長一個我長期幾十年熟悉的數字台灣的醫療支出佔整個GDP大概百分之六大概六點一或六百分之六那你比起目前有三十個OECD國家它的中位數或是平均數很靠近都是百分之九"},{"start":11074.015,"end":11082.278,"text":"你輸人累不累?你末段班倒數第二個第三個這是第一個事實那如果你把長照的經費也加進來大概是7.5%可是如果別人也加進來的話韓國是9.8%才將近10%GDP那我們7.5%那日本是超過11%大概靠近12%"},{"start":11094.743,"end":11104.789,"text":"所以我們的健康醫界一定有跟你一直吶喊我們的健康長期是投資不足的那現在我們先從基本點做起我們提到說政府因為依據健保法就是說36%那你覺得可以提高38%可是問題這個36%我剛剛說沒有付足一直在吵因為大家都隨便解釋各自解讀到底這36%你是怎麼計算的"},{"start":11121.098,"end":11137.463,"text":"那院長我再念一次給你聽健保法第三條規定政府每年度負擔的總經費不得少於每年度保險經費扣除法定收入或金額的36%但是任由各部會亂七八糟解讀這一張最上面那條就是框架我剛剛念一次給院長聽了院長我現在先在這裡跟您澄清希望你能夠向大家澄清請問36%是上限還是下限"},{"start":11148.506,"end":11160.903,"text":"文字的記者是不得少於啊所以呢不得少於就是如果政府的財政能力可以的話當然是可以著家依法啦 依法嘛 你們常常說要依法嘛依法你如果說是一個"},{"start":11163.163,"end":11171.472,"text":"下線嘛 是不是啊 沒錯吧 文字不得少於嘛就各機關遵照辦理啊 別再唱就遵照辦理 到底有沒有附到36如果是上線的話 那剛剛部長 外埔部建議的本身就要調啊修法 我們來修法 趕快修法"},{"start":11182.022,"end":11210.802,"text":"我們先把這個36先釐清第二個問題點院長我麻煩您再用心一下健保法實行細則第45條有列一項補助七類人員的保費他可以算是36%的一部分嗎這個是算法的這個七類人員我隨便提一下就是包括原住民中低收入戶或重重度的一些這個身心障礙者現在就是我想說這個部分政府有時候把它當作社會福利支出"},{"start":11211.542,"end":11229.718,"text":"然後又說是保費的補助然後又是保費本身這一魚多吃欸你想這個烤鴨三吃喔你是要算幾次院長我跟你複習一下在我們的保費的負擔雇主是6、10%那員工或是當事人勞工是30%然後政府是10%就是6比3比1"},{"start":11237.805,"end":11261.645,"text":"那我請問你以公務員做例子喔因為你同時扮演這個雇主跟這個政府的角色請問你請問你你把你分用雇主身份付的錢你要送進去政府喔啊你這樣送,你這吃人家豆腐啊院長怎麼辦吃人家豆腐啊你怎麼算報告委員吼"},{"start":11262.455,"end":11275.104,"text":"我想我們在實行細則裡面的確市數條剛剛你也提到政府其他的補市的保險費也含社會福利這常常過去就把它塞在36%但是我們的政府在我們左院長指示之下"},{"start":11283.49,"end":11296.501,"text":"確實把他的財務責任跟落實健康台灣永續健保這個政策所以我們把那個保惠就是社會福利拿出來所以特別在編了134億的公務預算這是有史以來最落實的"},{"start":11305.639,"end":11311.504,"text":"也就是這樣子,讓我們跟健保總和也是我們先回到醫學中心,這個圖,院長沒人的,我會給你啦這個監察院已經糾正衛福,它照樣耳邊封嘛因為醫學中心就越來越多啊我非常驚喜,謝謝院長,您上次在回答我質詢的時候你非常精準的回答我,兩百萬人一家醫學中心"},{"start":11329.099,"end":11343.834,"text":"可是每個部長都加碼啊薛恩人加碼三家啊那邱部長昨天我質詢我也說你又加碼一家你先不要說明我知道你講了很多理由但是你的規範就是增加所以就是這樣子台灣如果照人數算是大概12家2340萬人那現在我們有27家加上兒童業有人說到29家"},{"start":11349.5,"end":11367.356,"text":"你允許我這樣感受啦如果說勞動部動用了就業安定基金去做公關人情啊因為現在已經有人被收押進鑑了就是這樣那我可不可以說衛福部用醫院評鑑在大做公關人情呢?絕不允許"},{"start":11368.325,"end":11388.241,"text":"不是因為我的意思是說你醫院評鑑違反規定你越來越多醫學中心你知道院長醫學中心是成績越高嘛因為醫學最高嘛給付越好嘛溢價能力買藥買醫材的能力越好嘛病人越多嘛因為台灣人大家都被引導成要大醫院才好嘛後空很多啦這部長你看這個圖這個圖當時我就說1995年是那個"},{"start":11394.426,"end":11403.891,"text":"健保開辦元年那時候結構很清楚醫學中心13家48家區醫院然後下面568家25年後醫學中心變兩倍區醫院長胖1.5倍唯獨地區醫院剩六層不到腰斬我就問過薛部長說將來會變什麼他也不理我將來是變成這樣子頭重腳輕所以這個圖院長這個就是醫療分級在崩壞剛剛我們談到急診擁塞"},{"start":11422.702,"end":11440.19,"text":"他最後的解讀也是要處理分歧醫療的事情啊所以這個拜託你給我放在心中好嗎這個事實吧這是個事實三十年前我們在看這個金字打型的最重要的還是基層醫療讓他能夠強壯我還有很多要跟你分享的"},{"start":11442.111,"end":11445.234,"text":"龍寶寶本來龍寶寶是特別多的但是過去這一年龍寶寶誕生了多少呢大概14萬4856人是歷史上的新低所以無論你們如何努力掃紙化目前是失敗你也必須承認那儘管如此我的人工生殖法案貸運你們以托貸騙"},{"start":11462.907,"end":11467.313,"text":"你把待遇弄成政治議題啦你有沒有跟賴總統商量過他早期請我都不行我近期也是有跟他溝通你那次跟我說平台上的意見有八成是反對你也知道網路平台他不是民調"},{"start":11480.35,"end":11502.585,"text":"他不是民調他是一個意見可能有些意見我們在他們concern他們關心的點是什麼可是真正民調國建署做過連游盈榮教授最近也幫我做了民調至少差十幾個百分點支持的跟反對的不然外部部也做一次民調我的意思是說部長他們也不敢說完全禁止他是說要脫鉤 專訪那我請問你寫出來沒有寫出來了嗎你的代孕專訪寫出來了嗎你在應付我嗎"},{"start":11510.774,"end":11531.129,"text":"請部長再答覆,但部長不是光靠網路來了解,也開過了四次的專家會議那不是事實,因為它不是一個科學性的民調所以全世界有四十個國家都已經通過待遇將來很多大法官歷年都被表態他們是支持的,不印證醫師他們有專業技術等著幫忙我拜託不要再凌遲這些病人"},{"start":11536.953,"end":11561.29,"text":"這個著名的女演員Lily Collins她們在Instagram她就表達她們說永遠感謝黛玉媽媽她們有一些美好的經驗我要下面告訴院長的重點院長很多國際級的企業員工都給家庭強力的後盾成立家庭強力的後盾例如Google它為黛玉的員工提供最高兩萬美金的補助Netflix 7.5萬我們親愛的台灣之光NVIDIA黃元勳"},{"start":11567.114,"end":11583.251,"text":"對待孕全補助您可以跟黃仁勛商量一下為什麼他有這個想法所以我今天談的不是病人的問題是人權還有國安的問題喔院長大罷免重要還是亡國滅種重要啊趕快搶救亡國滅種啦好嗎"},{"start":11586.42,"end":11608.112,"text":"那現在謝謝邱部長有請世界環評鬧劇的兩位主角上台環境部彭部長經濟部郭部長我一邊談我要讓院長知道世界環評委員要求台電要進行土壤污染偵測來分析這個總石油碳淨化合物叫TPH這個代表污染的一個指標結果台電在偵測時只選了一處一個點位"},{"start":11611.174,"end":11615.216,"text":"採樣時間是2019年12月6日,請記好兩位部長,2019年12月6日一觸,好要告訴你說沒問題,偵測不到,沒有污染那我先請問院長跟彭部長,環境部跟環評會對於污染的偵測只選一個點位,一觸,你們接受嗎?一觸就可以啦,一個點就可以啦"},{"start":11633.459,"end":11654.937,"text":"報告委員,土屋跟開發這是兩件不一樣的...等一下,我知道你大概就這樣,問題是這是第二階段的環評要求,你的環評委員會也要求,還有個土屋法,土壤復活也是說過你必須整治完善後才能再利用啊,你是不是要再利用啊?"},{"start":11655.658,"end":11676.132,"text":"所以這個法部長不是這樣說的啦我再給你更多證據那請問兩位部長先等我一下本席今天要正式揭發協和世界開發單位台電公司在2019年的二階第二階段二階環屏土壤檢測數據涉嫌造假舞弊隱私我有證據"},{"start":11682.315,"end":11695.881,"text":"柴田工事和受託本案的這個派訓工程利用經濟部所謂的自主調查提前獲得土壤污染的位置資訊所以在二階環評正式期中產案之前的一個月他們開了一個會議"},{"start":11697.702,"end":11704.908,"text":"我在這個投影片上左邊是這個會議的這個封面右邊的數字他在12月二接環民正式採樣的時候在11月的時候他們因為偷做了偷做了所謂的調查11月太新工程在這個工作會議上明確告訴台電你看我框起來那個東西因為已經知道污染點的位置正式調查時可以移點避開再來做採樣檢測"},{"start":11724.451,"end":11733.078,"text":"我事先調查事先去做了所謂自主性調查他採了59個點位他知道哪些污染然後他竟然在會議上當然是揭秘者給我的資料說我們已經在哪些污染點請你正式採樣的時候要避開"},{"start":11743.51,"end":11754.596,"text":"台電根本就是內部調查手段來規避環評的評語好 下一個就是2019年台電跟蔡英文委託他們去做調查你看到他做了59個點位那他這個時間剛剛我請你們記得2019年的12月是正式的要去採樣環評會採樣但是他這個檢查是9月就去偷做了"},{"start":11767.262,"end":11784.075,"text":"然後11月他們內部會議就說我告訴你哪裡有汙染了你要避開你不能去碰這些正式採樣的時候要避開揭秘者爆料而且好 院長我今天告訴你這個數字我想要請你接受我這個建議你要不要啟動行政調查"},{"start":11786.294,"end":11807.299,"text":"我提出這樣資料你要不要啟動行政調查我們給了這樣的事證好我們都有這個都是來自內部的接避者資料第二個這個行政調查要多久完成我要知道進度第三個在這個行政調查真相出來之前也許要請當地的基隆市再次做一次確認那是不是把2月26號強行擬壓過的這個世界環評暫時撤回來我請院長回答兩個部長就聽就好了我很重視委員剛提的這個"},{"start":11816.141,"end":11823.983,"text":"但是對內容我請經濟部先請台電就這個這樣做說明說明之後我們再來決定資料是正確與否台電的說明是否有理如果當中有出現問題我們就順序來進行這個內部調查 彭副長我想問你我有函文給貴部那你在這之前你是不是已經收到這個突然有污染的訊息這份報告我們沒有你沒有"},{"start":11844.59,"end":11855.119,"text":"對 報告委現在我們大院在今年1月公告了公監獄者的保護法你沒有沒關係那天我們提出來了我們三位立委都在現場我們提出來為什麼環評會17比0碾壓性通過我們提出這個資料"},{"start":11861.414,"end":11876.326,"text":"我們要求程序問題因為我們有發現新的市政其實市政早就存在是發現新的市政我還談文給環境部結果環民會根本不理我們反而派來台電火速召開會議"},{"start":11877.987,"end":11884.95,"text":"而且他讀到第六章的核心資料污染資料沒有上網違反規定而且本來要七天前就要上網那我要告訴院長我手邊都有資料包括剛剛那個內部會議我要告訴院長就是說那天的會議用17比0因為你缺席了我在場讓我先講院長那天會議是用17比0碾壓是通過你聽起來覺得這個比較像金正恩習近平的會議吧那個整個碾壓通過"},{"start":11906.919,"end":11925.707,"text":"然後我要告訴你院長在這個正式的環評會議之前有一個專案小組會議專案小組會議可是兩岸併成喔通過跟不通過是兩岸併成喔兩岸併成是什麼意思表示5比5嘛正反雙方都很靠近嘛但是前面是5比5後來是17比0"},{"start":11927.523,"end":11954.583,"text":"這是護航到底啊就是怎麼樣都要通過啊報告委員因為初審會議是有民間的代表他不願意讓我們有進行閉門會議如果閉門會議討論完全是有在討論的過程當中完全不是碾壓第二個呢委員如果你對於這個有興趣我們大院也通過公益接避者保護法你送給我我們就來照程序來處理其實我們早就還送給你了當天我們山友立委在現場我們要求程序的發言"},{"start":11955.463,"end":11977.898,"text":"結果被阻止說我們沒有資格談程序發言塗污跟污水跟我們環評這是兩個不一樣的法規程序像南部五清他過去也是重度污染區經過整治現在台積電也在裡面蓋槽我來不及了我請你看看你當天你不在你的部署是怎麼對待這些與會者這個團體 放一頭影片香港環保司司長足而行政不中立"},{"start":11994.331,"end":12010.621,"text":"司長他安撫支持方他對我們不禮貌 他說我們沒有自責任議員他是在做解釋那另外一個呢是當天其實包含了有一些參與的這個環團他們丟椅子 其實也造成我們很大的公務的損害但是為什麼呢 你們支持好再繼續播另外兩個影片"},{"start":12034.96,"end":12038.303,"text":"好謝謝謝謝陳昭志委員的資訊,謝謝卓院長、各部會首長的備詢"},{"start":12042.486,"end":12045.41,"text":"接下來我們請賴銳龍委員請持續好 謝謝院長 請卓院長麻煩再請卓院長備選"},{"start":12069.927,"end":12094.318,"text":"院長辛苦了首先昨天看到總統有提出了這個國安會議那我認為其實這是民主的台灣面對這個專制中國甚至有統一企圖所必須做的一個行動所必須面對的行動院長怎麼看待總統昨天的這樣的一個國安會議當我們在面對這種境外的敵對的勢力"},{"start":12096.201,"end":12108.585,"text":"持續對台灣的國家安全有重大的威脅而且在國內我們發現他不僅對一般的國人他對軍人現役的軍人都有進行相當深入的滲透這個時候身為國家領導人總統"},{"start":12111.846,"end":12139.371,"text":"如果沒有啟動一個有效的機制當國家的安全將會受到更大更大的傷害所以我認為總統在適時而且提出這樣一個緊縮性的只針對現役軍人在他的軍事犯罪行為也就是叛亂有洩密有立敵有廢辭職務還有其他的情況才有辦法用軍事審判那這個是特定對象的特定行為他已經限縮了"},{"start":12140.131,"end":12142.981,"text":"所以在這個情況底下對一般的國人甚至對所有的軍人"},{"start":12144.984,"end":12173.823,"text":"國人的人權跟軍中的人權都不會做任何的傷害我想這幾年來這些的狀況越來越多了文攻武嚇甚至共諜的滲透越來越多那我認為其實這是民主台灣在面對專制中國一個到後來必須要面對讓全世界都在面對專制中國的這些手段台灣做民主陣營的第一線而且是他有統一的企圖的時候我們更應該提高我們的所有的一些防禦的能力這個才能確保我們自由民主的生活"},{"start":12174.904,"end":12185.296,"text":"台灣的下一代還能保有我們自由民主生活院長應該同意這樣的看法吧是的那我再請教院長那接下來行政院有哪些需要配合總統這些作為要來推動的我們有十幾項的"},{"start":12189.059,"end":12214.074,"text":"包括修法包括立法都一一的要來做一個處理我看到有相當法律要來做推動院長多久時間會來提出來把這些修法提出來在昨天的會議上面我說了在總統的裁示之後我們就會依照總統裁示的內容由各部會就他自己訂定行動的方案或是各種的策略但是要有專案來執行第二個"},{"start":12214.673,"end":12242.539,"text":"要定期來考核而且要限期來完成院長這些都有實效性什麼時候會提出來一個完整就是把大家的各個需要修法的方案提出來而且這個昨天總統的才事經過一天我想各部會正在緊密的作業過去都有做一些準備那目前還要做一些橫向的聯繫包括國防部 陸委會內政部都要有一些相關一個月 三個月還是要多久時間院長認為應該多久時間盡速把它提出這些修正我覺得一個月我們會把整套計畫都做出來"},{"start":12242.759,"end":12259.881,"text":"用一個月的方式來努力來做出來因為這個是有相當的急迫性的我們希望一個月的時間在部會盤點提出來只是修法應該相當的快至少提出來然後讓國人清楚知道整體的配合總統的修法方向出來謝謝 再回想一下今天民調有出來了對於總預算的部分"},{"start":12262.043,"end":12276.014,"text":"亂砍亂山的部分有53人認為是不適當國人認為不適當只有27人是認為適當而已所以有過半數的民意其實是確實對於這樣亂砍亂山是不認同的那接下來院長接下來我們會提出什麼樣的動作會進行釋憲嗎"},{"start":12278.919,"end":12307.701,"text":"因為我們也知道這樣的狀況但是如果我們回到大嶽的場景很多部位首長在這裡是沒有辦法把政策說明清楚的除非像我們前兩天我們主計長他才能夠很清楚把數字說得清楚但說的過程我想也不見得每個人都懂所以院長 釋憲會提嗎釋憲會提出來嗎釋憲當然是我們現在合法合憲的憲法救濟程序之一種所以釋憲會提然後另外也會跟人民做說明是這樣嗎"},{"start":12309.509,"end":12321.748,"text":"會向國人去做正面的報告那院長 那這個黨部辦的這八場的部分院長都會親自出席嗎我們現在就比較近期的我們有列入行程"},{"start":12322.588,"end":12351.597,"text":"有列入行程那院長那為什麼需要院長親自站出來這個其實並不是一個這個過去來其實不多見顯然這個行政院遇到相當大一個挑戰所以才要親自院長要親自站出來跟人民做說明因為捍衛今年度的中央政府總預算我想行政院我們責無旁貸必須向國人說明在這個中央政府總預算如果合理的執行底下國家會有什麼樣的全面的發展"},{"start":12351.997,"end":12377.671,"text":"但如果受到這樣的一個不合理的刪減那多少計畫會因此受影響同時在對財化法方面把中央3753億的經費預算挪到地方去稅率挪到地方去會造成中央多少的財政的空虛這一點的部分我必須也向國人說清楚未來在落實地方自治的精神底下該地方政府來自應的就地方政府自應該中央來負責的就中央來負責"},{"start":12378.536,"end":12397.707,"text":"我也認為到了這個時間點確實作為最高的行政首長也有責任跟人民說清楚當在立法院沒有機會被講清楚的時候那透過地方上不管是民團或者是其他的邀請的方式跟人民做更清楚的說明讓人民更清楚到底發生了什麼事我認為這也是行政院長的職責啦院長應該同意這樣的看法嗎"},{"start":12398.987,"end":12427.993,"text":"那我接下來想請教一下高雄這次的重災區在這次的財務法的修正幾乎是被六度裡面是增幅最少增幅最少相較於台北增加了416億高雄只增加245億所以還很多人得意而言說奧運賀拿了245億但是沒有講到是3700多億被拿掉之後未來有一半的錢是補助不下去的所以等同今年本來高雄也許有機會拿到700億的一個補助款只剩350億所以實質上面最後高雄"},{"start":12428.853,"end":12450.529,"text":"實質上減少了100億是全台灣最大的重災區所以我認為這個怎麼能不說明就是這樣的狀況其實重北輕南甚至重藍輕綠的狀況我認為應該要去改變所以為什麼人民這麼不滿這一次的從民調看來這麼不滿顯然人民也看到這個問題這樣的做法絕對不是台灣長治久安的做法那我現在倒回來問院長"},{"start":12452.37,"end":12476.966,"text":"能不能還是請你還要持續的支持區域均衡發展特別對於中南部的建設還是要大力去支持院長可以承諾嗎當然在總統的理念底下均衡台灣所衍生出來的台灣六大區域治理計畫這是今年度開始要執行的即使在像的一個總預算跟財劃法這樣的不合理的調整底下我們還是要衡量所有的財政"},{"start":12478.027,"end":12497.432,"text":"把集中財政可行的範圍在可以的地方先行來開始中南部的鄉親很支持政府也不斷的在供電也支持甚至於各項產業全力支持我也希望中央一樣持續支持中南部這些鄉親們他們需要的建設還是希望中央群體我先問一下"},{"start":12498.052,"end":12518.372,"text":"大林埔千春從2019年10月8號核定到現在已經過5年多了院長可不可以加快速度在今年底讓他開始能夠登記讓整個環評跟都市計畫程序加快一點讓今年底已經過了5年多了快要6年了真的相當長的時間能不能盡快給大林埔鄉親們一個明確的答案在今年底開始來做登記"},{"start":12519.053,"end":12534.784,"text":"最後包括他的一些安置的一些類設宅的一些規劃經濟部跟內政部我知道已經達成了相當的協議可以往這個方向來執行那這個例子我們就在大陸這個地方來做一個實施但是我想"},{"start":12535.865,"end":12560.769,"text":"直施的時間我會把它拉的進來因為這個大臨普的千春計畫還會牽到其他周遭的南西計畫等等這個是牽扯這是一個對國家非常重要的計畫對鄉親也很重要對國家競爭力發展都很重要的計畫我希望院長持續緊盯這個計畫我希望能夠在今年底前有一個比較明確的答案讓鄉親已經等了五年多快六年了能夠做一個登記好不好朝這個方向努力好不好"},{"start":12561.53,"end":12562.75,"text":"我們現在會加速辦理環評中環評過了以後我想就是會開始辦理千村"},{"start":12575.247,"end":12604.967,"text":"好不好 院長請努力朝年底 今年年底前來朝這個方向好嗎好的好 謝謝院長再來其實高雄的很多的交通建設跟產業建設都需要院裡面的大力的支持那我想問的是國道7號這個拖了13年貨櫃車基本上都在這邊跑的非常的影響到人民的生命安全院長拖了13年能不能再趕一下在明年的6月來如期開工這個是當時的開工日期是明年6月能不能如期來開工院長能不能朝這個方向來努力"},{"start":12606.288,"end":12626.227,"text":"跟委員報告之前會拖延是因為土地徵收的問題那目前土地徵收看起來次序上應該是可以所以我們希望明年的六月可以來準時開工所以明年六月如期來開工我們希望院長跟部長都盯緊這個程序這一條對高雄對鄉親們都很重要不要讓貨櫃車在平面道路跑"},{"start":12626.527,"end":12653.023,"text":"然後造成很多的重大的死亡車禍A1死亡車禍在沿海路上面常常就是因為是貨櫃車跟轎車而發生的所以我們希望這樣的悲劇不再發生那國道七號本來就配合第七貨櫃中心應該要一起來啟用了七櫃已經開始啟用了但是國道七號連動工還沒動動工完還要興建五到六年的時間我們希望加速至少明年六月先動工讓人民感受到政府的效益好不好請院長 部長來大力支持好 我們來努力"},{"start":12653.883,"end":12664.657,"text":"再要請教一下高雄的紫線現在也全力在推了那當然這是一個新的線路那院長能不能大力支持在今年以前能夠給予一個比較明確的一個支持"},{"start":12668.322,"end":12684.55,"text":"目前是在可行性研究的階段那這個部分我們來加速進行我是要已經進行可行性那已經可行性完了之後當然就有接下來要不要去支持的這個議題了那我們看到大台北的捷運是一條蓋過一條啦那我們也希望高雄已經很努力的包括第三條"},{"start":12685.35,"end":12700.179,"text":"已經在準備要做了那我們希望紫縣這條經過非常多的人口密集區也經過許多的學校我們希望中央盡速來支持那可行性通過之後也希望今年底能夠來核定這些經費繼續支持高雄的交通運輸建設 好嗎"},{"start":12701.988,"end":12722.052,"text":"好 我們來加速去年底才送到交通部的對 去年底的可行性進來了那今年應該可行性完成接下來就是編列經費的一個程序好不好請院長跟部長再大力來支持再一個是國道一號的跟現在台南高雄常常塞得很厲害啦如果有在跑就知道因為高雄是南北向的"},{"start":12722.372,"end":12744.021,"text":"那我們看到其實台北做的已經很好從汐止到五股到陽梅現在要做到頭份了一整條非常的便利一個高架的讓整個舒緩交通而高雄現在從市區到這個岡山甚至到台南是塞得很嚴重上下班時間塞得很嚴重假日前更嚴重我希望能夠啟動這個高架道路的系統如同北台灣的這個高架系統一樣"},{"start":12744.801,"end":12768.959,"text":"舒緩 讓穿越性的車流直接能夠穿越而不要在下面堵在一起這個可不可以請院長跟部長也能夠來規劃 朝這個方向來規劃國一 國七他有一個連關性 部長來答是 報告委員 國七我們加速來推動國七如果完成之後其實對於整個交通的紓解會有很大幫助但國一的部分確實那一段非常的塞不過因為它的邊坡都已經變成黨土牆"},{"start":12770.18,"end":12798.275,"text":"所以他如果是要做高價的話會有影響到一些民房跟一些徵收的問題但這個部分可不可以請部長先做規劃啦好不好因為國西比較偏東邊他離那個市區差比較遠那因為高雄因為左邊最左邊遇到有軍港跟這個的影響所以他變成不像台六四一能夠那麼暢通所以變成南北現在主要道路就是在國一那國一如果能夠比照像北台灣這樣子能夠有高價道路的話"},{"start":12798.735,"end":12827.123,"text":"它基本上就會讓整個市區的車流會方便很多啦那我希望我們的建設都走在前端現在已經 傭社已經出現了如果我們能提早來做規劃的話對於10年20年後的這個下一代子孫他們的交通跟發展會有很大的幫助我希望能夠提早來規劃好不好北部的從這個汐止做到現在已經做到頭份了苗栗的頭份了已經做到苗栗頭份我希望南部的部分也儘早來啟動讓兩大都會區的未來的交通更加的便利"},{"start":12827.783,"end":12844.073,"text":"這個我們來研議在高雄機場其實是台灣第二大的國際機場但現在很可惜我們一直還沒有美國跟歐洲的航線但我們一直增加更多的日本其他的航線那美國今年7月有機會從台灣到日本"},{"start":12846.394,"end":12863.292,"text":"到東京轉到洛杉磯去美國跟歐洲的航線有沒有可能在院長跟部長支持下來開闢讓南台灣的鄉親不用很辛苦一定要一早跑到桃園機場才有機會飛出去而是有機會從南台灣可以直接飛出可以嗎 院長"},{"start":12864.013,"end":12881.818,"text":"是的 我們在推動台灣南北雙空港就桃園機場跟這個小港機場那小港機場今年的七月委員已經秀出來了我們將可以有一個向美國的航班那同時它向其他地方的航班也會持續的增加同時部長也應該在規劃當中一個"},{"start":12884.168,"end":12904.154,"text":"大型的客機能夠在香港機場起降大型的客機要持續拉來高雄不要只是中型的另外是航班航點持續增加很多委員大家都在努力另外是飛往歐洲或者飛往美國這一塊也希望持續的來推動歐洲的部分部長有沒有初步的規劃飛往歐洲的"},{"start":12904.814,"end":12925.266,"text":"市場有這樣的需求我們也是朝這個方向在爭取目前當然跟各個航站都在溝通當中也跟航空公司在溝通當中我們朝這個方向來努力希望盡快有好消息讓高雄南台灣的鄉親飛往美國飛往歐洲有更便利的一個方式不用一大清早要趕到桃園去做那個"},{"start":12925.826,"end":12945.136,"text":"那最後一個是高雄那裡有個小長機場也在我的選區內啦但小長機場它的唯一就是因為周邊是住戶啦所以它有宵禁的問題你半夜兩三點起降對他們的生活干擾相當大那我們看到了不管是東京的這個羽田機場跟成田機場或者是這個首爾的一樣有兩個機場國內的金浦機場跟仁川機場"},{"start":12948.058,"end":12968.956,"text":"高雄有沒有可能也再來提早規劃未來有一個南興的海上機場24小時起降的機場讓南台灣的發展能夠更加的便利北部一樣有桃園機場跟蘇安機場相當的便利有沒有機會讓南部一樣有個南興機場海上機場讓它更安全更便利請院長跟部長長期來一直在解決高雄這種航管飛航區域的問題所以現在是說2032年2040年兩階段先把小港機場"},{"start":12986.067,"end":12996.057,"text":"好 謝謝賴慧龍委員的質詢謝謝卓院長跟部會首長的備詢好 謝謝報告委員會我們上午質詢到此為止下午2點30分我們繼續開會 現在休息"},{"start":20500.579,"end":20501.34,"text":"MING PAO CANADA MANGA"},{"start":21654.414,"end":21666.519,"text":"好 畢業會我們現在繼續開會現在在議場二樓旁聽的是來自台北市東山高中的同學們我們掌聲歡迎 歡迎來立法院我們現在進行 繼續進行質詢我們請萬美玲委員請質詢"},{"start":21684.566,"end":21702.772,"text":"時間暫停一下 又來了一個團現在一場二樓來自日本東京大學的所有的同學們來立法院我們掌聲歡迎啊好 歡迎好 萬美瑩對不起好 謝謝主席我們有請卓院長以及陳世凱部長麻煩請卓院長交通部請備詢"},{"start":21713.869,"end":21738.438,"text":"好 院長好 部長好 院長好院長我看了您的這個本會期的施政報告那總共有8項158頁那麼在第109頁第6項交通及數位發展那本席看到第一點第一段第一行你就提到了桃園鐵路地下化的一個計畫我想這顯示行政院應該也是相當重視桃園鐵路地下化的這個工程"},{"start":21739.278,"end":21757.655,"text":"那但是每一次喔院長應該都還有印象喔就是我這個問題質詢了非常多次可是每一次質詢這個鐵路地下化的進度喔我想都會讓我們覺得非常的失望喔那我們來看其實本席不只一次反應喔我們都知道其實鐵路計畫也好桃園市下有很多重大建設是在做所以呢"},{"start":21757.975,"end":21781.446,"text":"不管是每年當一天進度落後對於桃園市民來講都是很嚴重交通黑暗期也好都是一種臨時所以從去年六月份卓院長您剛上任的時候當時本席就有質詢這個鐵路地下化的進度落後了4.01%那麼在九月份第二個會期的時候我又再度質詢了那後來呢我們的進度持續落後到5.95%將近6%那你看這個時間點"},{"start":21784.588,"end":21813.214,"text":"其實我又再度質詢這個進度因為真的非常的重要那我們看到進度不但沒有追上那反而持續落後來到了9.47%將近落後了大概一成所以我想是不是能夠請教一下這是什麼樣的原因報告委員一方面是因為發包的問題二方面是因為我們這個物價不斷在調漲所以我們有提了這個修正計畫確實整個工程是有延宕的狀況但是因為我們修正過後的金額相當的大"},{"start":21815.375,"end":21835.187,"text":"因為過去缺工缺料啦疫情影響我們都知道那我也知道正在辦理修正計劃不過我們來看一下那因為現在的進度不斷的一個擴大落後而且這個落後我相信不只是我們在等待很焦急我相信這個主管機關也是非常的焦急才是可是我們辦理中的修正計劃我們一休多久了"},{"start":21835.367,"end":21858.682,"text":"大半年過去了在去年我們看到鐵道局有講說在113年年底之前會完成修正計劃然後推進發報的作業但是到目前為止我們看到整個鐵道局的修正還在修正中那更不要說我們後面還要送交通部我們還要送行政院要審議要核定還有很長一段路要走所以到底要到多久的時間才能夠修正跟核定完成"},{"start":21859.282,"end":21875.747,"text":"報告委員您上面的資料也很清楚裡面還有一個議題就是難研的部分有一個車站難研的部分那這個部分當然需要一些時間討論因為包含工程包含預算我想為什麼要修正就您剛剛說的不管是我們因為缺工缺料疫情然後工程難移"},{"start":21876.947,"end":21887.45,"text":"等等或者經費要增加,那就是因為這樣才要修正但是不能無止境一直等待,這個時間其實有點久了我希望部長能不能加速一下這個時間,否則之前我們在講說122年、123年這個可以分兩階段通車你有把握122年跟123年這個承諾可以兌現嗎?我們第一階段還是努力在122年希望能夠通車"},{"start":21900.413,"end":21922.854,"text":"所以院長您所關心的這個桃園鐵路地上化這麼重大的工程是可以在122年、123年如期如值的通車嗎好 三件事情跟委員報告原來這個預算1048億現在修正後會增加大概770億左右增加的幅度相當大那第三件事中央跟地方的分擔的比例"},{"start":21923.749,"end":21938.04,"text":"這是一件問題而且地方來講新北市跟桃園市還沒有談好互相之間另外我們現在財政授之劃分法若是這樣劃分的話那中央跟地方的比例要重新再核算沒有辦法這樣做"},{"start":21939.201,"end":21963.817,"text":"今天本席跟你討論這個進度的問題那這個進度落後不是此時此刻才落後也不是之後才會開始落後其實就不斷地在落後從過去其實在1048億還沒有用完的時候其實我們就一直在落後了所以我想這個落後的問題恐怕我們要痛定思痛想一想那除了疫情之外到底為什麼我們不能夠追上所以我想希望是不是能夠"},{"start":21964.877,"end":21981.766,"text":"一個月內我們來提供比較明確的關於修正計劃能不能完成郭台銘報告過我說如果財政收支法案法是這樣來分的話那很多已經合訂的計劃行政院必須收回重新合訂要嘛就是地方比例要增加要嘛就是整個時間要延長"},{"start":21982.566,"end":22009.153,"text":"這是中央政府被拿到3700元沒有辦法的辦法院長我想這樣來講我們也真的是必須在這裡本席要其實勸您就是應該要再次仔細想一想過去一直落後一直落後當時也沒有財政收支劃分法的問題所以還是一直在落後所以那個時候就在落後但是我們應該要去檢討所以這是我今天語重心長希望您這麼重視鐵路地下化那我們可以加點油好不好"},{"start":22009.873,"end":22032.834,"text":"我們會加油檢討好 接下來我想那個部長可以先請問然後我們有請這個邱太元部長麻煩請問部長院長 我們這個去年九月的時候本席同樣是在這裡那當時質詢是說新冠肺炎單週門診急診就診人數高達12.8萬人次這個數字您以及部長一定還是記憶猶新"},{"start":22033.775,"end":22062.894,"text":"所以当时整个是炸锅不管是因为观察率高这个护理人力不足压力过大这个急诊拥塞那个时候就非常非常严重了可是我们看到到了今年呢我们没有看到这个状况有改善春节的时候呢我们急诊就诊平均3.7万人次这个数字高于去年同期的2.7万人次那最高峰的时候其实在1月30号单日就高达了4.5万人次那2月2号到2月8号"},{"start":22063.294,"end":22079.563,"text":"光是淚流感的單週門急診人次達到了18.1萬人次那這個數字也是近10年來同期最高所以我們看到按照衛福部現在自己的統計目前我們每一天急診量依然有大概2萬多人次"},{"start":22080.123,"end":22102.019,"text":"那講到這一些數字其實都是非常心痛的數字因為去年的時候爆發這樣子一個大量到今年不見改善還加劇我們可以知道我們的醫護我們的護理師的這個壓力有多大但是我們看到一直到今年的2月22號急診醫學會發出求救文說真的才真正引起了政府的重視"},{"start":22103.16,"end":22117.629,"text":"本是不理解我們已經有啊就過去的這樣一個經驗我們也深知問題在哪裡可是呢不同的季節不同的病毒但一樣的狀況加劇的在這個急診啊或者是在醫療院所去上演啊那我們再看到啊其實啊在這個後應時"},{"start":22118.57,"end":22134.329,"text":"後疫情的時代我們也知道這個免疫負債爆發那當然有很多的傳染病大流行包括我們知道的新冠、流感或者是懦弱等等很多所以現在急診的爆滿跟醫院、診所這幾天我們大家都在談論這個問題那護理師的人力不足的問題尤其嚴重"},{"start":22138.314,"end":22154.873,"text":"那衛福部提出來了一個說三短期策略兩個中長期的改革我們就來看三短期策略為什麼因為這很急迫嘛要趕快來做嘛那你看去年的時候我們推出這個三班互併筆也算上路了然後夜班今天也實施了但我們要講的是"},{"start":22155.894,"end":22183.013,"text":"院長我們要知道喔三班戶必比要有人才能夠來排班嘛對不對夜班今天要有人我才發給他有意義嘛那現在的問題就是護理師不足啊所以我們看到這兩個政策上來以後我還是沒有改善喔那所以現在提出來說病床調度啦醫院聯防啦或者分級就醫啊有提出的政策本身都肯定是好事但是真的能夠解決這個問題嗎所以我想部長其實您提出的這些策略喔"},{"start":22183.393,"end":22207.283,"text":"我看到我們醫界其實是不太領情的原因是為什麼因為這些方向恐怕他們本來就已經在做了所以醫改會也批評說這樣子的一個策略其實活在一個平行時空護理工會也轟說這是提油救火但我理解他們的心情我也能想像其實部長是想趕快做完看起來沒有效果所以部長能不能提一下這要怎麼解決"},{"start":22208.26,"end":22236.058,"text":"是的 謝謝委員我想留任護理人才在我們的職場上好好的工作就是我們政府一直在努力我們這一年來提出了十二項的一個策略那其實從各方面來努力特別是在護病比的努力留任還有教考留任人才教考用的一個護理人才的培育等等都一直在進行那其實今年的"},{"start":22237.159,"end":22250.675,"text":"去年的時候也比上一年前大概我們也增加了護理人員大概3800位在職場那其中有1200位但是我必須要聲明我們需要的更多所以我們也更想盡辦法"},{"start":22251.997,"end":22268.006,"text":"其實您現在在講的還是一個背景啦其實我覺得我們還是要針對問題要想想怎麼解決那當然今天本席啊其實我們在這個後生會我們也跟這個紀淑敬理事長我們也成立了一個希望能夠為醫護人員發聲的一個平臺那我相信這個平臺也是一個跨黨派啊這個"},{"start":22269.406,"end":22297.038,"text":"結合了我們政府啊或者是學術啊或者這個醫界啊我們大家希望把這個問題找出來嘛那我們都知道所有的問題環環相扣那每一個問題其實可能連接的就是下一個問題那當然誠如今天周次長講的就是說我們要怎麼按照這個輕重緩急不能夠解決眼下的問題跟帶來另外一個問題這我都同意但是要做啊好那我們再來看喔其實本席認為喔我們落實這個分級就醫這一個部分我覺得還不錯但是恐怕也只能就是紓解啊"},{"start":22297.398,"end":22317.976,"text":"沒辦法真正解決啦那我就來看講到分級就醫那個部長去年你記不記得本期有建議說這個新冠因為已經比照流感的看診比照流感那麼所以呢我們希望建立一個分級制度不管是看診篩檢或者給藥的SOP都要來做嘛那請問一下光在新冠這個部分做了嗎新冠跟"},{"start":22320.891,"end":22337.374,"text":"新款流款化以後去年就跟您提了我們要不要就是分級這個部分從這裡開始做起我們從COVID以後就建立了不只分級也包括分流希望讓醫療能夠製造廠進行所以部長您的意思是說有做是嗎我們不只在社區建立了分級分流我們怎麼樣的轉型"},{"start":22346.136,"end":22369.634,"text":"我瞭解我瞭解所以部長您的意思不好意思您的意思是說我們有做嘛那我們如果有做這個SOP是有的那我要麻煩您精神診所是不是還有很多不知道或者是說沒有落實那既然我們有做那個政策提出來要落實所以拜託如果是真的有做這段時間我們看不到麻煩要把它落實起來否則光上次我提說新冠要比照流感"},{"start":22370.014,"end":22396.377,"text":"的這個SOP做你分級都沒有辦法落實了那現在你要怎麼說要讓整個這個狀況分級就醫我看也很難啦好那我們現在再來看那政府這幾年說要提升護理人力那在這個112年的時候考選部降低了護理國考的門檻當時還引起了一些爭議因為我們把這個所謂比較難的一個科目比如說像這個基礎醫學的比重由20%降到了10%那考試呢"},{"start":22396.857,"end":22420.546,"text":"就是說不要考那麼難嘛然後再來呢我們考試有一次有兩次那增加為三次讓你可以多考一下對不對但是我們看起來你看國考的門檻稍微降低了可是整個及格率大概都是三成多啊及格率是三成多所以我們要想一想那是不是我們在這個教育上面的部分是不是要怎麼樣來加強所以我們國考降低了看起來沒有幫助嘛那我們再來看看到這個註冊率"},{"start":22422.446,"end":22450.811,"text":"我們就看報考人數是次數增加但看起來也沒有比較好可是呢我們的這個整個大專護理科系的註冊率也是一直在下降其實去年在質詢的時候也有跟院長跟部長提起來我們當時這個政策其實我就不太贊同因為我們當時看到五專跟二專受到大家的歡迎註冊率超高可是你把那個註冊就是給他的核定名額是下降的"},{"start":22451.431,"end":22473.619,"text":"那反而是當時的四年制跟學試後註冊率只有七成多結果呢根本就還招不滿就你還把這個名額把它提升看起來好像數字說我提升了以後可以增加人力沒有啊所以今年證明我們註冊率是下降的嘛所以我們考上了他都還不來註冊好那我們再往下看也就是剛剛我們所提的除了這個註冊率"},{"start":22474.719,"end":22484.282,"text":"也大概七成多之外我們的護理人員在113年12月我們總職業的人數其實大概只有62.57%62%多而已也就是說整個總領證人數有30萬9千多人但是留在這個職場上職業只有19萬多所以也就是"},{"start":22495.285,"end":22513.699,"text":"考試沒有考這麼多學生註冊沒有那麼多人去註冊臨到這以後大家不要留在這個環境裡面所以呢 部長本席在這裡語重心長的要請您真的要去仔細想一想出了什麼問題這一連串最近大家都在討論這個議題但是我們是討論完以後回家就當沒事了嗎"},{"start":22514.58,"end":22533.877,"text":"還是我們應該要去深思到底為了什麼我必須要講我們從來在台灣不缺護理人才不缺有愛心有責任感專業的護理人才而是缺一個留住這些護理人才的好的環境那有沒有創造好的環境給他院長有沒有話要說我們並不是降低考試的門檻"},{"start":22534.938,"end":22561.592,"text":"而是希望行政院跟考試院未來就護理人員的考試甚至其他各個部會相關的考試都要引進一些是試用型的考試內容考用合一的一個平台不是要降低是要考一些比較實用性的那麼護理人員我們都調查之下他七年是一個高的離職率我們除了引進新的訓練新的更多之外如何把這些護理人員因為個人的因素家庭的因素"},{"start":22561.972,"end":22587.925,"text":"必須離開的時候 我們能不能解決他這種家庭生活上的因素 把他留任下來我們回去再好好想一想這些問題點那當然啦 我想我們看到這麼多人不願意留在這個職場上當然我們都知道很多問題不過整合起來可以知道這個工時很長 勞動的條件很長尤其是這個薪資真的非常的偏低啊我必須要講薪資真的非常的偏低啊尤其那天我想"},{"start":22588.325,"end":22617.723,"text":"部長提到說我們護理人員的薪資有到六萬你看引起基層的炸鍋啊勞動部都已經就都說了四萬九啊勞動部的這個資料四萬九但你卻提一個六萬我想我們護理人員大家個個都覺得很冤枉那同時最重要的是我們有沒有創造一個好的環境給他他能不能受到大家的重視尊重不管是政府不管是這個醫病之間讓他給他一個可以受尊重的環境否則他長期都在承受很多負面的情緒那怎麼有辦法待在這個地方呢所以我想"},{"start":22618.103,"end":22644.739,"text":"等等這些因素啦好那我們看到衛福部上週有跟醫界來開會規劃一個要由健保每年預租30億的經費還有4年100億的這個相關的這個提升護理薪資的一個費用那我覺得這個方向其實是對的這個也是其實本期長期來一直呼籲跟要求的因為這個方向絕對是正確的但是呢我今天要來問部長跟院長那我們要如何來提升護理的薪資那現在到底要調升多少"},{"start":22647.661,"end":22668.42,"text":"報告員,我從來沒有講過護理人員的薪資是多少,我們只是提供112年部長先就我的問題來回答好嗎?我們現在在調薪的部分我們要調多少錢?我的意思就是說,醫護的同仁怎麼樣提升待遇一直都是我們...那部長請問一下,我們開了會之後現在有決定要怎麼調薪嗎?調薪多少錢?"},{"start":22670.792,"end":22677.681,"text":"我想這個可能我們盡量第一個增加護理會那我們要求護理會要公開透明"},{"start":22680.074,"end":22700.587,"text":"盡量是用在直接在護理人員的加薪上面所以還沒有一個數字 對嗎好 那我想我們這個護理師公會也好基層的護理師同仁都希望說能夠調薪一萬塊那我當然希望這個部分請院長跟部長就好好去想一想我們到底要怎麼樣去給他調薪不過呢 我希望"},{"start":22701.147,"end":22723.267,"text":"未來衛福部開任何跟醫護人力改善相關的會議一定要邀請這關係也就是要有護理師代表來參與這點可以做得到嗎我們一定找護理的代表來但是護理代表有時候有五六個團體那部長另外本縣也要求是不是能夠在一個月內我們來擬定到底要怎麼樣調升護理的薪資跟護理費用的具體方案一個月內可以有一個案子出來嗎"},{"start":22725.876,"end":22734.965,"text":"我們一直在處理 一直在努力但是我們隨時可以邀請所有的護理團體一起來努力沒有問題 我們再檢討好 那既然我們要調整護理師的薪資但同時我剛剛有講 減壓也很重要我們有一個技術混合照護模式這個院長知道嗎 部長知道嗎"},{"start":22746.918,"end":22759.982,"text":"這個就是住院整合性照顧他希望把那個護理師照顧護理師單位然後還有護左來幫忙是是是技術混合照顧模式跟住院整合照顧計畫我想這些都是希望能夠幫他們減壓但是呢"},{"start":22763.603,"end":22785.818,"text":"這兩者最大的不同在於技術混合照護模式我們是針對所有病房內所有相關的宿務工作那給您有某一些這個執照的人來做當然不是專業的護理師那住院整合照護計畫當然針對病人的家屬無法陪病的時候可以申請那好我們來提到技術這個混合照護模式目前本期去了解調查"},{"start":22786.938,"end":22816.518,"text":"整个全台有五家医院在试办那试办的效果成果都很好而且这个技术混合照护模式其实在世界各地也都有在做所以我想根据这个魏福波自己的统计我们112年护理人员离职率高达了12.61%可是您知道吗有在试办这个技术混合照护这个模式医院的离职率竟然可以低到只有0.9到6.9之间可见它是有成效的所以我想部长是不是可以尽速的来研议扩大推动这个照护模式"},{"start":22817.859,"end":22822.06,"text":"但是我也希望說我們能夠啟動相關的法令研修把這個輔助人例如護理所"},{"start":22839.588,"end":22864.047,"text":"那這個部分納入醫療機構設置辦法當中來減輕護理師的一個負擔是不是也能夠請衛福部我看一週之內因為這個不難一週之內書面跟本席具體的答覆好嗎好的好好謝謝接下來請邱部長一樣留著我們請教育部的鄭部長一起麻煩請教育部長備詢"},{"start":22867.733,"end":22886.722,"text":"我想小死化是我們的國安問題但是本期今天要關心真的一個蠻嚴重的狀況也就是青少年我們發現他罹患性病的比例有在上升那你看如果青少年沒有做好性病的防治跟教育那不慎感染的性病"},{"start":22887.122,"end":22901.674,"text":"有的時候沒有及時發現有時候休餘治療未來也會影響生育能力間接加劇少子化的問題尤其醫界也證實感染零病醫院體梅毒或者是人類乳毒病毒等等恐怕導致不孕"},{"start":22902.415,"end":22919.396,"text":"那在這裡其實我也很謝謝這個衛福部過去我們一起努力本席也不斷的呼籲所以今年九月我們就要開始把這個公費的HPV的疫苗我們要擴大到國中男生來接種那這可以有效的降低HPV的病毒感染不過"},{"start":22920.157,"end":22933.562,"text":"最近的10年我們看到青少年感染梅毒跟這個靈病的人數是暴增的我覺得這個數字其實讓我們非常的擔憂根據疾管署統計感染梅毒的人數從2015年的124人上升到2024年的549人那暴增的425人之多那增幅高達342%"},{"start":22940.925,"end":22964.806,"text":"感染0病的人數則從2015年的326人增至2024年的908人這個增幅增進來到178%其實我更擔心的是這個裡面恐怕還有很多的黑數在裡頭這個我非常擔心我們來看到這個疾管署也有提到說青少年性病的這個案例暴增是因為初次性行為的年齡下降了"},{"start":22965.266,"end":22992.182,"text":"再加上交友軟體網路發達等等我們就看到有這個狀況產生不過我們看到全面性教育的八大核心概念其實在108個課綱當中其實是有的可是我們看到青少年的性病感染越來越嚴重所以我在這裡要請教部長這是因為課程沒有落實還是教學內容已經沒有辦法滿足教育現場這是第一個問題第二個我們看到2023年國民小學的全面性教育落實情形的檢視報告當初指出"},{"start":22993.943,"end":23009.744,"text":"性與性行為跟性與生殖健康兩項核心概念在國小階段幾乎是完全消失了可以看一下所以我想對於我們教育現場性教育課程的缺失這部長能不能簡單的回答一下"},{"start":23010.896,"end":23022.947,"text":"我想謝謝委員的一個提醒我想讓我們這一個新世代這個青少年能夠有一個更好的一個成長空間這是我們大家所關心的學校如何來落實這一個"},{"start":23026.65,"end":23046.095,"text":"透過這個健康議題這一相關的課程這些都有 你現在講都有但問題沒有落實啊本來就在八大領域當中為什麼沒有落實我想在教師的真人包括全面的我們來了解來跟衛福部有一個個人回去看一下好不好既然我們在領域當中就有叫落實好不好這個我提醒您一下好 再來呢"},{"start":23047.495,"end":23072.608,"text":"但是你看我們教育部教育部過去曾經辦理大專院校性教育計畫及高中以下性教育計畫可是呢在2020年的7月跟2021年的8月都停辦了這第一個那邱部長衛福部也曾經推動青少年性健康促進服務計畫也在2023年12月就終止了我請問一下到底為什麼我們通通不在乎了不重視了嗎為什麼都停掉了你們知道都停掉了嗎"},{"start":23076.447,"end":23096.983,"text":"邱部長知道嗎?不知道,鄭部長知道嗎?衛生部在推行性病防止方面是很多人的我知道我知道,但我只問這個點所以兩個部長都不知道停掉了嘛,對不對?回去看一看,我沒有要苛責你們,回去看一下為什麼把它停掉了?是真的沒有必要嗎?"},{"start":23097.924,"end":23127.031,"text":"好那我們再來看今年1月15號衛福部的機關署說要跟國建署還有教育部的國教署來合作來強化校園性教育跟性傳染病防治的宣導那請問兩位部長兩個月過去了這個平台建立起來了嗎院長兩位部長建立起來了嗎報告委員我們會由我親身在衛福部的處理部長我只問建立起來了沒有在先導的方面我只要問這個平台建立起來了嗎"},{"start":23129.451,"end":23154.925,"text":"政務長還沒有我們願意跟委員一起努力這個性教育他之前停下來 願意照聽我因為我的時間有限我們重新來把它研議這個平台我要委員部即刻成立好 謝謝針對今天該有的課程沒有落實那過去該有的計畫我們也把它停掉那我們該建立的平台我們趕快把它建立起來這個部分我想是不是會後"},{"start":23156.265,"end":23175.965,"text":"我想應該一週內就可以把這件事情書面再跟本席做詳細報告最短的時間把計畫送給委員讓我們在禁書的時間把它成立起來要發揮它的效果因為我們看到這個新少年性病暴增的數字我們就知道背後發生什麼問題要趕快把它做起來啦 好不好那另外呢 其實本席有一些具體的建議我想會後也會給你們"},{"start":23177.406,"end":23202.407,"text":"包括怎麼樣的跨部會合作啊怎麼樣用這個匿名的方式讓青少年的篩檢啊怎麼樣設置保密性高的這個單位讓他們可以諮詢啊等等喔今天本席在這邊要求你們要做到的絕對對我們的孩子有很大的幫助回去要落實做不要這邊聽完回去以後大家都當沒這回事好不好好 謝謝那接下來呢兩位部長可以先請回喔那我有請這個勞動部這個洪部長"},{"start":23204.715,"end":23221.609,"text":"麻煩請勞動部部長備詢謝謝我想院長我們現在現今的社會型態很多的父母親因為工作忙碌都沒有辦法親自照顧三歲以下的幼兒那有的這個抽不到公幼有的不管是請保姆或者是私幼私托恐怕也有經濟上的考量"},{"start":23222.29,"end":23249.304,"text":"那又基於信任的關係所以我們發現其實祖父母在照顧這個幼兒的比例可以說是相當的高這點您應該認同喔那這也是現今社會很多家庭照顧的模式喔可是呢根據衛福部喔他有一個在這個111年兒童及少年生活狀況調查的報告那幼兒由父母以外的親屬照顧的比例高達了25%將近四分之一其中相當高的比例是祖父母所以部長"},{"start":23250.124,"end":23253.968,"text":"我們勞動部調查我國平均退休的年齡是幾歲平均退休的年齡我可能要再確認一下數據"},{"start":23263.491,"end":23287.28,"text":"我告訴你好了 這個調查是勞動部自己的調查 62.25歲但是今年要即將邁入了超高齡的社會我們在立法院去年也修正了勞基法跟高齡者及中高齡就業促進法那把原本強制退休年齡從65歲延後到勞資雙方合一這點部長一定知道嘛那這個是為什麼"},{"start":23288.08,"end":23309.101,"text":"我們要鼓勵中高齡的人繼續投入職場也就是希望大家還有這個工作能力的時候不要太早被強迫退休嘛對不對部長是嗎是好那所以我們看到現行性別工作平等法第16條裡面僅僅只有允許父母親來申請育嬰留職停薪那這導致什麼問題產生呢"},{"start":23310.362,"end":23339.131,"text":"也就是說許多中高齡仍然在這個就業的祖父母你可能為了要幫子女去照顧孫子那他被迫不得不離開職場你看看這樣的狀況其實反而是影響了中高齡勞動力的這個持續就業那跟我們去年勞基法跟中高齡就業促進法的原意其實是違背的那為什麼會有這個狀況我想我講到這裡應該其實院長跟部長就很能理解嘛因為我們現在超高齡跟這個少子化"},{"start":23339.571,"end":23363.325,"text":"所以未來因為照顧孫子而選擇離職的或者是退休的祖父母會越來越多因為我們剛剛有講到我們一直希望他還有勞動力的時候能夠延後我們也修法了可是現在看到是我們很多的祖父母因為要照顧孫子那麼就被迫要離開職場所以我今天在提我們現行的法規我們是不是應該要更完善一點從現行法規當中將祖父母能夠納入"},{"start":23366.107,"end":23373.077,"text":"我們的育嬰留庭的一個保障範圍之內我覺得這會不會更完整一些部長您怎麼看"},{"start":23373.803,"end":23401.892,"text":"跟我們說明因為其實這個孕孕留職停薪的津貼我們會發給這個父母親的原因其實有一個很重要的原因是因為我們在民法裡面是有明文規定父母對於未成年的子女是有保護跟教養的權利義務所以為什麼當時孕孕留職停薪的津貼在救保法裡面這個設定是給父母是因為在民法上面有這個規定"},{"start":23403.112,"end":23421.053,"text":"當然這個我都理解那但是部長我想我們應該共同來看一看就現今的職場狀況跟現今我們照顧幼兒的狀況我們要隨時滾動式去檢討去做微調那尤其我們剛剛面對我提出來的這個數字我們本來這個退休年齡其實就已經延後了我們還希望他能夠有勞動力說繼續來工作那又加以你看"},{"start":23423.976,"end":23444.412,"text":"有四分之一的幼兒恐怕都是祖父母在照顧他們當然就是要被迫從具有勞動力的職場上離開所以我是希望今天在這裡特別把它提出來院長來深思一下想一想我們怎麼樣去維持這些祖父母都還有勞動力可是他又必須要照顧年幼的孫子的時候我們能不能夠擴大育嬰留庭"},{"start":23448.916,"end":23474.582,"text":"能夠擴大到我們的祖父母我想這一個本席在上一屆的時候其實有提出修法那其實我記得這個修法其實還有很多版本出來所以我們都是主張將這個祖父母要納入留職停薪適用的對象那我想這個修法其實本席會持續來推動所以我在想是不是能夠今天跟部長跟院長來討論讓祖父母在面對照顧孫子的這個責任的時候能夠兼顧他的就業權益"},{"start":23475.382,"end":23495.908,"text":"跟委員報告我們現在勞動部確實一直在思考跟政策上面的規劃希望讓更多包括尤其是父母親他可以同時兼顧家庭照顧跟他的職場的這個需求就是大家現在在講的所謂照顧不離職的政策我們其實正在全面的研議也包括因為留職停薪怎麼會讓他能夠更彈性化"},{"start":23496.648,"end":23518.227,"text":"因為現在很多的性別團體都希望說讓他更彈性化之後其實更能夠去兼顧職場跟照顧部長我同意你說的這個彈性化就是我們要視現在很多的狀況去做彈性的處理這次才能更圓滿所以我想剛才本席提出來我相信過去您也思考過那院長也會覺得說這個其實是值得去想的所以我想拜託"},{"start":23540.318,"end":23542.84,"text":"好,謝謝,謝謝外媒林委員質詢,謝謝卓院長跟歌舞會首長的備詢"},{"start":23547.065,"end":23547.769,"text":"接下來我們請登記第23號王世堅委員請質詢"},{"start":23597.59,"end":23602.433,"text":"謝謝主席我請卓院長麻煩請卓院長備詢算盤很重嗎王委員好卓院長國事如麻不管這一次預算的刪減凍結"},{"start":23624.025,"end":23648.958,"text":"到底是怎麼樣但是金額非常龐大所以在我們這麼多的國事這麼多的建設軟硬體都需要錢需要經費之下確實這一次預算受到的傷害打擊非常的大所以我今天"},{"start":23650.18,"end":23678.848,"text":"送你這個禮物希望你帶回去放在院裡面我送你這四個字這四個字就是精打細算要精打細算雖然我們冰箱裡打開就剩兩條鐘三顆蛋連肉我都沒一塊但是如果認真的"},{"start":23679.511,"end":23700.132,"text":"仔細的好好去規劃還是可以做出至少可以衝擊可以填飽肚子的東西出來所以這一點我還是寄望你要國事為重要精打細算"},{"start":23724.591,"end":23746.543,"text":"謝謝王委員這個禮物最應該您送的應該是我們的主計長是啊就因為要精打細算所以院長我先從我要提的第二個問題開始"},{"start":23748.954,"end":23774.808,"text":"時間就是金錢所以你看我舉一個例子我們這個促進促產條例、獎餐條例所參與的幾個案子那大概有一半以上大概最後合約雙方大家不歡而散所以我主張在這些促產條例"},{"start":23776.929,"end":23798.153,"text":"所參與的案件當中我們應該加入強制仲裁的條例我舉大鵬灣為例大鵬灣自從政府我們跟承包商有產生糾紛以來光是前半段從101年開始用協調的方式協調了8年"},{"start":23807.025,"end":23836.135,"text":"什麼結論都沒有結果大鵬灣那麼好的觀光景點那麼好的天然資源結果就亮在那個地方後來還是靠仲裁來解決所以我認為至少在促參條例所獎勵的案件當中是不是我們應該加入強制仲裁這樣子的條文也就是說協調不是不可行"},{"start":23836.994,"end":23854.695,"text":"但是協調必須雙方合一之下才能夠解決但是仲裁的話是快速的判決對雙方也都很公平那如果把我們這幾十年來三四十年來政府參與的案件當中"},{"start":23857.038,"end":23874.616,"text":"從捷運 從各項公共工程一直到促參條例的案件當中所有仲裁的結論都很公允並不會單方面的對政府不利所以我認為是不是應該加入強制仲裁"},{"start":23876.792,"end":23896.881,"text":"這就是精打細算我們把時間成本要算在內這高明的政府應該要這麼做院長你的看法是任何行政的效率能夠提升都是政府應該進步的那我們如果有哪裡還沒有注意到這個部分委員的提醒我們馬上會去做內部的檢討我希望你就請"},{"start":23902.024,"end":23929.502,"text":"財政部 法務部 他們引你相關的這一個部分的法律 好不好那既然莊部長上來的時候那個院長我一併提 跟莊部長有關啦就是說你看我們現在興建中的鐵路捷運的計畫光你手上 我們行政院現在規劃的那麼從基隆的捷運 台北的捷運東環 北環 南環 一直到桃園"},{"start":23932.745,"end":23955.945,"text":"綠線 中線 台中的捷運 藍線到台南鐵路地下化 捷運高捷的黃線等等一直到屏東高鐵延伸到屏東 花東鐵路爽軌 電氣化我加起來總共大概兩兆兩千兩百億那"},{"start":23958.095,"end":23984.749,"text":"財政部的國庫署非常好他每年國庫署都有發函給我們各公共建設單位跟他說是不是我財政部來輔導你們國庫署敦促他們說是不是發行公債以內公債那我為什麼談這個事情因為我們到現在為止我們國內的售險業"},{"start":23987.506,"end":24012.691,"text":"收取來自我們2300萬同胞的保險費保險戶的保險費總共可運用的資金35兆裡面有高達七成有25兆這些保險公司把它拿到國外去買債券買基金當然他有兩大理由啦他說我們國內利率低啦說什麼我們國內市場小欸 院長"},{"start":24016.499,"end":24042.985,"text":"利率低他不能講啦因為國內利率確實低但是保險公司也是以這麼低的利率去算期望值來賣保險給我們的保護嘛所以利率低這個就不提但是他提到我們國內市場小這一點我完全不服為什麼我們有這麼龐大這麼需要資金的公共建設是不是我們如果由財政部"},{"start":24044.309,"end":24066.169,"text":"甚至監管會 以他們的能力 錯錯有餘才經在這一部分的能力輔導需要公共建設資金的像交通部門交通的建設的公債還更有自償性你看捷運蓋了 馬上大家收取運費"},{"start":24068.1,"end":24086.972,"text":"票價都足以來支撐所以這一個部分是不是請財政部金管會幫忙這些需要這些資金建設資金的單位像交通部交通部我看了一下財政部這麼多年來這十年多來有輔導"},{"start":24089.249,"end":24117.461,"text":"在交通部的部分交通部這十年來有七檔的交通建設一總共在但是金額還是不夠大加起來加起來才一千出頭億但是院長我們現在所需要的經費喔光這些交通建設經費我們需要兩兆兩千億而且而且如果我們把"},{"start":24119.203,"end":24141.019,"text":"來自於我們全民的保險費的資金拿回國內由我們國內我們統籌來建設我們國家建設我們台灣不但增加大家的向心力而且我們對於行政會我們標榜我們要打造台灣成為亞洲資產管理中心"},{"start":24142.844,"end":24155.937,"text":"我們把我們資金收回我們自己管自己運用如果我們70%的資金是委外去買國外的債券資金我們把我們的資金拿去給國外管"},{"start":24158.001,"end":24180.989,"text":"我們憑什麼號召其他國家說那你的資金給我管很奇怪所以在這個部分我希望由院長由你的高度你的位階由你直接下達指令那讓財政部讓金管會有所適從也讓最需要建設資金的交通部"},{"start":24181.633,"end":24201.683,"text":"他們也才有一個舒緩的空間否則我現在各單位我舉我們還可以擴大還可以擴大到長照到社會住宅社會住宅院長你手上規劃的現在在你手上規劃就高達4800億 天啊4800億那社會住宅長照也都有自償性啊"},{"start":24210.663,"end":24222.236,"text":"喔 那可以擴大到財政部 軍管會幫助內政部他們幫助衛福部趕快來籌措這一部分的"},{"start":24224.769,"end":24250.878,"text":"與種公債你的看法呢 院長好 謝謝委員的高見委員剛剛的這些建議都是我們現在在推動的我們就是用這樣的方式希望引進包括授錢 資金在內進到國內來做大家合理的投資但似乎在投資上面它有一個最低利潤的一個規定那如果不到這個規定他們沒有辦法投資所以我們跟金管會曾經討論過要不要考慮來把這個打開 是不行"},{"start":24253.979,"end":24269.066,"text":"彭主委來說明一下謝謝委員我想剛剛委員那個指教說金管會對這一項我們都是真的非常的支持我們前陣子才跟我們那個陳部長在討論很多交通工件我們因為我們在金管會這邊籌組一個資本市場服務團我們請交易所跟櫃買做一個免費的服務來協助這些工件"},{"start":24273.328,"end":24297.937,"text":"然後做剛剛委員提到的商品化跟證券化的過程這我們一直在努力我們也非常希望說國內有更多具有投資價值的商品能夠出來讓我們的保險資金能夠留在台灣這是我們現在正在努力的部分有 我就舉個例啦他說國外利息高 好嗎賺人家的利息可能本金被吃掉因為兩個風險一個匯率的風險我們畢竟我們是小國"},{"start":24302.318,"end":24327.652,"text":"大國主導匯率啊所以我們吃了利息本金匯率被一調不是就被吃掉還有很重要的另外一個風險戰爭我本來很不願意提我們有五家保險公司買了1580億俄國債券那我想主委很知道你有掌握這個狀況這也是你告知我的"},{"start":24329.151,"end":24334.094,"text":"從去年8月開始這1580億的債券陸續到期10億20億8億30億陸續到期俄國怎麼答覆我們呢俄國答覆說等我戰爭打完再來算這筆債天啊"},{"start":24348.652,"end":24376.207,"text":"天啊這麼大的風險耶難道我們要去捲入俄烏戰爭嗎派飛機去跟他要嗎所以我認為這件事情刻不容緩站在國安的角度站在建設我們台灣我們國家的角度我們需要這些資金好不好院長您說已經在做了那非常好那我們就更積極的做更大步的做你大力授權彭知偉跟莊部長"},{"start":24377.934,"end":24406.273,"text":"我們也要求我們提供給我們在海外的資金回來我們提供給他一個長期合理穩定的投資報酬他就願意回來在這樣的投資環境底下也壯大我們自己的資本市場對 也讓我們的公部門像交通部就不能說我反正是公共建設嘛我要資金大筆一揮那預算編就有了不能再這樣籌措財源不能只是由預算我們要往"},{"start":24407.303,"end":24431.479,"text":"光在這個部分包括社宅我們也希望引進民間的合作而不是政府一再的投資如果這樣的話速度量都可能比較快而且多沒錯 沒錯好 那兩位部長請回陳部長你也請回 請回院長我要再提的就是關於死刑的執行我們好不容易"},{"start":24432.509,"end":24458.338,"text":"前兩三個月有在槍斃的位現在還有36位已經判死刑多年有的已經判了30年這些人都殺人無數可以說罪大惡極罪無可患現在大法官也做出解釋死刑核限但是必須很嚴謹執行他講的這4加1 5個條件我希望法務部能夠趕快救這36位"},{"start":24461.159,"end":24478.173,"text":"實刑犯這4加1的這五項我們要趕快一項一項去檢視而且要把時間表列出來給全民一個交代自古殺人償命啊不是嗎我們要還被害者一個公道"},{"start":24479.592,"end":24505.203,"text":"法律是為人民服務的嘛那我們不管其他歐洲國家是怎麼樣美國現在超過一半的州還在執行死刑耶那日本韓國這個更不用講歐洲多數國家也是死刑只有北歐少數幾個國家耶所以我認為我們2300萬人共同的意志超過八成的民意認為就是應該"},{"start":24507.222,"end":24526.951,"text":"罪與罰要成比例當他罪大惡極當然就是罪重罰殺人償命嘛不是這樣嗎好那這36位大法官做出了解釋這四大項說最嚴重的犯罪情節最嚴謹的法律程序"},{"start":24527.751,"end":24552.548,"text":"喔 說強制辯護何議庭一致判決我認為我們要審視這四項針對這36位其實如果我們真要做其實一段時間內就可以做到嘛審視這四大項還有一小項就是要做 欸精神鑑定啊看他是不是有精神障礙 心智缺陷這個"},{"start":24554.509,"end":24580.637,"text":"我們要不就是過去審判的時候有做要不就是現在再跟他做一次嘛趕快趁這個時間所以院長我是希望你交代部長是不是這一個部分這36位不是360位不是3600位所以要有一個時間要有時間表要出來到底做到哪幾項我們還欠缺什麼"},{"start":24581.477,"end":24597.555,"text":"有這麼龐大的民意支持而且院長執行死刑是法務部的職責喔是法務部的職責好不好我希望你提醒部長這一點這是他的重責大任"},{"start":24598.257,"end":24618.407,"text":"犯罪人是否罪大惡刑法院已經做了定案了案決之後那現在執行就在法務部那法務部必定要遵照現判的意旨完成他的所有的法定程序那給應該被執行者的最後剛剛委員所說的要不要經過一個"},{"start":24619.505,"end":24648.414,"text":"精神的鑑定或是一個怎麼樣的審定讓他知道他因為他的犯行而受到社會最大最大的苛責他必須要付出這樣的代價那法務部是非常謹慎的那麼前一陣子我們也因為整個法律的這個完備我們有執行了一位所以證明台灣並不是一個廢死的一個社會我們法律上我們是在合憲的範圍當中只要完備法律我們對於這種經過法院判決的最後合備法律我們會予以執行的"},{"start":24649.062,"end":24670.72,"text":"大法官都幫整個政府 幫法務部背書了嘛死刑核憲 只是加注了這幾項那這些就成為 剛才院長你也認同的嘛這最嚴重的犯罪情節 這都是全民已經看得一清二楚就是簡單講 罪大惡極 罪無可換"},{"start":24672.894,"end":24699.264,"text":"這種有的甚至前幾年發生的那種慘絕人寰的還有院長我們這些法律輔助的預算去年編了15億今年也編了15億但是很傷腦筋的去年啦我光講去年就好去年15億法輔的預算啦百分之二十不到是用在被害人"},{"start":24700.509,"end":24727.038,"text":"有將近百分之八十是在幫加害人幫他強制辯護不打緊加害人啊死刑罐請罪多啦一聘聘三位律師天啊天啊加害人家無恆常連個律師也請不起加害人現在在我們的法律的訴訟當中是很"},{"start":24728.103,"end":24755.229,"text":"無奈完全無力的他們連結婚權都沒有他發生命案以後被害人家屬必須把所有權力寄望於說這個檢察官很好這個包青天在世能夠伸張但是往往檢察官案量很多有時候總是會有小疏忽所以對被害人非常非常的不公平我認為今年這15億的預算我們應該扭轉過來"},{"start":24757.969,"end":24777.145,"text":"適度的扭轉過來當然還是給被害人強制辯護沒錯但是我們要適度的轉化把多數的資源留給被害家庭被害人的家屬好不好好不好編預算在司法院但資金很多工序請部長來答覆一下"},{"start":24778.697,"end":24801.137,"text":"他那個法府是屬於那個司法院主管的喔司法院主管那那個犯罪被害人這部分我們那個犯罪被害人權利保護法現在是在113年1月1日施行的那現在已經施行的第二年了那這部分我們可以加強保護那這個的預算都有做一個比較寬裂的我認為我認為加害人的人權固然要保障"},{"start":24802.267,"end":24816.546,"text":"我們大法官也釋憲的結果我們給他強制辯護如果是急刑的審判的話但是要適可而止這些資源我們應該用在被害以被害人為主"},{"start":24817.327,"end":24836.874,"text":"對加害人的人權的保障對被害人的人權的保障我們很用心但是至少對加害人的我們很用心但對被害人我們至少要採取同樣的態度甚至更多的關係至少同樣的態度所以就要同樣的資源好不好還有我要跟您提到來那個部長你請回"},{"start":24838.499,"end":24865.812,"text":"我要提到的就是一個也是很無奈的被遺忘的颱風降需求啦我們幾個月前來了兩三個颱風在台北的甚至連放兩天颱風降在高雄甚至有四天的颱風降結果我們很多獨居的身葬者"},{"start":24868.373,"end":24894.909,"text":"不要說連著四天連著兩天光一天啦一天沒有造福源去他們幾乎就沒辦法來自立生活照顧自己他們要吃藥要用餐要喝水要如廁這些身葬者沒辦法自己一人完成尤其是獨居的獨居的身葬者他沒有家人更不用談外傭了"},{"start":24895.569,"end":24920.563,"text":"那這樣子的情況我認為我們有兩件事可以應該趕快著手改善第一個就是說如果颱風有宣告颱風的時候是不是我們趕快跟獨居的身障者很龐大的人數喔大概一千八百多位齁我們趕快聯絡他們是不是我們緊急安置第二點我們用"},{"start":24921.443,"end":24940.75,"text":"我們的這個造福源造福源為什麼颱風架造福源他可以不出境嗎因為本身有危險還有他需要的交通的費用還有這樣子出差的危險那危險性的部分我們可以用保險來代替"},{"start":24942.264,"end":24955.994,"text":"那麼他交通出勤的部分我們讓他搭私家車搭Uber搭計程車這些費用由政府吸收來貼他們因為畢竟水災風災這些火災這些都是"},{"start":24961.5,"end":24977.938,"text":"偶爾會發生並不是每天常態性的事所以這些是不是應該由我們政府來擔負這個部分這個費用的補貼 補貼造福源兩個緊急安置然後造福源我們幫他讓他可以出勤"},{"start":24978.581,"end":24999.25,"text":"你的看法呢原則性的問題跟委員答覆在總統的指示下如何全面提高對獨居老人的照顧我們也請鄭麗君副院長再主持一個專案那其中很多的資訊跟照顧的實際的行為要來自於地方政府的配合跟合作他才有完整的資訊但無論如何我們已經全面在做這個專案了"},{"start":25000.63,"end":25016.946,"text":"這個已經在處理未來委員所提到的這個部分就是一個照顧服務的空檔我們不會讓他空檔來出現這個我們會在專案裡面把它納進去但是還是需要地方政府能夠全面的來協助才有辦法把這個11在各個地方能夠全面的照顧網能夠展開來"},{"start":25017.948,"end":25041.713,"text":"當然啦 地方政府當然是要配合那這一點我們中央政府可以督導他們我們有端案在處理都可以督導他們還有身心障礙者權利保障法已經17年沒有修正那院長在你的手上 你們已經修正了衛福部已經通過了這個版本 這非常好那麼也送到行政院再做最後的核定那麼是不是 院長"},{"start":25042.353,"end":25069.073,"text":"是不是可以在近期內趕快將身心障礙者權力保障法是不是就送來我們立法院完成這個程序好不好好 部長能簡單答覆重點答覆身心障礙權力保障法我們已經在3月3號函送行政院審查也感謝行政院也多次指導我們擬出一個最適當的一個版本現在正在行政院審議"},{"start":25070.282,"end":25098.514,"text":"好 那個部長剛好你上來了我順便提 院長就是保健品的關稅啦大概我們全台灣是全世界保健品關稅最高的國家欸 美國只有6.4%韓國8% 日本4.5連對岸中國都8.5%而已我們多少欸我們高達30%的保健品關稅那這有兩大影響第一個 這影響到我們國民"},{"start":25100.837,"end":25113.95,"text":"去採用更優質 品質更好的國外保健品像歐美日他們這些保健品阻礙了我們自己國內生技業 製藥業他們應有的發展 保健品的市場"},{"start":25122.557,"end":25146.209,"text":"光我就舉一年就好 光舉前年就好前年保健品的市場高達1700億當然1700億裡面很多我們國民還是願意接受好啦那被你打30% 我就是要用國外的用扣掉這些國外進口的以外"},{"start":25146.997,"end":25165.331,"text":"我們還有將近一千億有九百多億國內保健品就由我們國內業者製造那當然經濟部現在部長上來啦經濟部就說啊這麼高的關稅保護我們國內的產業但是保護產業固然是對"},{"start":25166.564,"end":25178.525,"text":"但是國民健康應該優於產業保護不是嗎然後因為這麼高關稅讓這些大廠們他藥品不再研發不再製作了"},{"start":25179.537,"end":25197.369,"text":"他就做這些保健品做維他命ABCDE責任又小做鈣片做這些保健品利潤高有30%的關稅保護啊所以他不再做藥了也不再研發了你看我們現在健保這麼拮据我們把"},{"start":25198.349,"end":25218.246,"text":"國外一些優質原廠藥我們因為價格的關係只好砍砍到人家不交那至少如果我們國內的藥廠增期的話你至少不但研發你也可以做這些專利已經到期的學名藥啊但是他不做啦 為什麼三十八保護者我有將近一千億"},{"start":25220.545,"end":25240.382,"text":"這麼龐大的市場我就做這個就好了所以院長我希望說你能跟兩位部長好好談一談產業的保護固然重要但是國內的藥廠生技業這些工廠沒有那麼脆弱他們都已經龐然大悟啦上市上櫃了一大堆"},{"start":25241.724,"end":25269.706,"text":"我們要可以他們責任也就是說我們把保健品的關稅下降一方面讓我們國內的同胞能夠享受到便宜又優質的國外保健品二方面讓我們國內的藥廠生技業他們能夠茁壯能夠來研究這些重要的製藥那個對我們國民健康有另類保障的這些製藥好不好"},{"start":25273.054,"end":25296.972,"text":"報告委員您的這個指教我們會參佐我們會鼓勵業者自己好好的生產符合國人健康的這些藥那麼保健食品的部分我們也會來了解整個市場的需求我希望你回去趕快了解這個市場就我剛剛跟你提的"},{"start":25298.953,"end":25317.601,"text":"1700億扣除進口的我們自己國內製造有1000億之多所以你看這些生技這些做保健品的藥廠各個都上市上櫃那當然那是他們的本領啦我們不是忌諱他去上市不是而是希望可以他更多責任去研發藥品"},{"start":25319.079,"end":25327.889,"text":"去幫助我們的健保去平衡好不好所以郭部長我再次跟郭部長你強調產業保護固然重要"},{"start":25328.78,"end":25347.921,"text":"但是國民健康更優於產業保護好不好好那兩位部長三位部長請回院長我最後一個題目要跟你提到的就是關於我相信你們已經有著手在進行這院理跟國防部都有在進行就是關於我們國軍"},{"start":25351.823,"end":25379.058,"text":"我們兵源那麼薪資結構的調整那也因應我們未來勢必會調漲我們國防的支出既然是這樣而且現在我們志願役跟義務役薪資都應該要做調整我舉例現在光做建築的泥水工、鋼筋工、模板工一天都三千五耶需要趕工的時候還四千塊以上"},{"start":25379.958,"end":25397.331,"text":"那只要他做兩天修一天做兩天修一天一個月就七八萬了那對志願力非常不公平才三萬多元所以在這個部分那對於那個志願力跟意味都應該增加"},{"start":25397.771,"end":25425.655,"text":"因為一五一很多他固然對國家有這個當兵的義務但是有的都家庭還是需要過去他學生的時候打工去幫家計所以在一五一自願意我們我知道國防部應該有規劃的報告委員賴總統上任以後就有所指示國防部也在緊急作業好那是不是進化以後趕快就從監獄實施以後"},{"start":25427.674,"end":25435.227,"text":"好 謝謝王世堅委員的質詢也謝謝卓院長 各位部會首長的備詢 謝謝再接下來我們請登記第24位羅廷偉委員請質詢"},{"start":25457.912,"end":25461.772,"text":"好 謝謝韓院長 有請卓院長 謝謝麻煩再請卓院長備選"},{"start":25472.605,"end":25491.677,"text":"好 院長好 院長 113年啊我們有一個兒童發展篩檢的一個計畫 編列了2.33億去年7月推出了這個計畫請問院長目前辦理的成效 經費核銷截至目前是多少 您有掌握嗎請部長來說明一下不好意思 時間好 謝謝 謝謝 感恩 感恩 部長辛苦了"},{"start":25503.471,"end":25515.756,"text":"有掌握相關的核銷嗎?還有成效?我是說我們因為這個剛推出嘛那大概現在有1186家的醫院跟診所這個我都知道來我們來看一下數據"},{"start":25517.216,"end":25524.262,"text":"院長預計服務4.5萬人這個是113年所提出的新聞稿那114年講說已經超過26萬人次接受兒童發展篩檢服務部長這兩個數字差很多哪一個是對的113年說4.5萬人可以享受114年變成26萬人次怎麼樣計算的"},{"start":25544.658,"end":25561.558,"text":"根據統計現在已經超過25萬人次因為一個小孩可以有接受重複嘛 對不對到底是重複計算還是數據有整合其他的計畫這部分我要打上一個問號但是我要先講 院長"},{"start":25562.739,"end":25577.99,"text":"這個兒童發展篩檢的一個計畫政策是利益良善我們支持但是4.6萬人跟現在說26萬人次的享受到底是在講兒童發展篩檢還是兒童預防保健服務合併計算"},{"start":25579.511,"end":25589.384,"text":"我覺得這個部分希望衛福部講清楚說明白部長您知道嗎是合併計算嗎我現在的資料是有一千九十萬人次兒童接受兒童發展篩檢"},{"start":25597.634,"end":25620.9,"text":"好 我要跟你講的是還是有很多家長覺得兒童發展篩檢的計畫可以再加大力度宣導這個部分我們一起來努力但是怎麼樣來宣導加強呢這個部分我希望家長端的部分有給予我們意見我希望你能夠接納那第二個剛剛是家長端再來我要講的是醫院端醫院端目前有什麼問題你有沒有掌握到"},{"start":25622.711,"end":25636.502,"text":"醫院端醫院端現在大概還有幾十家還沒有正式開始你有沒有去了解他為什麼沒有辦法正式開始你有沒有去關心你是部長啊"},{"start":25637.862,"end":25654.847,"text":"應該是人力的規劃還有一些缺失吧人力的規劃不足我想院長講出來了但是我要講的是就我所知道兩位醫師有跟我反映也有透過網路在反映我必須要如實的轉達第一位醫師跟我講人力不足第二位醫師他講的是這樣子這個政策"},{"start":25656.547,"end":25657.028,"text":"部長 這個你有掌握到他的一個論點嗎"},{"start":25674.746,"end":25697.211,"text":"你要怎麼回應這個醫師的意見那個是不一樣的啦 兒童健康照顧這個部分他是要 現在重視 因為這幾年來大家的反應 家長的反應認為說他的發展還是要 早一點發展所以你認同兒童發展篩檢的服務是有必要進行的對不對有必要 有必要的嘛"},{"start":25698.331,"end":25715.337,"text":"但是作為一個民意代表我想不管是家長端跟醫院端所講出來的聲音我必須讓你知道醫院端有醫院端的一個困難包括現在我們說的現在醫護人員的一個相關環境我們要怎麼讓他更好醫療人員的一個缺少你有沒有辦法補足"},{"start":25715.757,"end":25744.845,"text":"我們所關心的健保點值0.956月下旬你說要把它完成能不能去執行這都是我們持續在關注這都是我們現在想要為這些醫療人員發聲的這個部分我希望你要追蹤啊台大有沒有去執行這個業務我們希望他一定是願意去執行政策但是作為部長你應該去傾聽醫療基層人員他們實行的困難點可以嗎當然可以院長"},{"start":25746.114,"end":25766.545,"text":"擴大兒童篩檢的服務有兩個目標第一個是希望及早發現遲緩兒童轉介追蹤掌握黃金的療癒時期第二個全國普及但是你知道偏鄉還有都市非都市地區你要免費給他去檢查他都不一定能用為什麼因為不夠普及"},{"start":25767.574,"end":25789.719,"text":"我們現在掌握到的台東東河鄉、卑南鄉還有雲林古坑鄉、包中鄉以及林內鄉台中市自己的和平區新社區基隆的七堵區院長沒有人照顧偏鄉非都市區沒有去處理這樣子的兒童發展篩檢的服務現在連衛生所都沒有納入這個計畫院長部長我們要不要處理"},{"start":25790.595,"end":25804.749,"text":"當然對兒童的發展的遲緩問題應該列為國家很重要的政策尤其在少子化的時代那麼現在我們已經知道不僅在偏鄉在都市裡面的各式醫學中心醫師人數都不夠所以我希望"},{"start":25805.666,"end":25831.863,"text":"部裡面要去如何培養醫師人士而且現在對現在的所有的醫師要合理的善待在待遇以及各種尊重上面要合理的善待我希望能夠把問題點出來家長端醫療院所端以及現在看到的沒有普及的部分應該要給予照顧給予支持而不是我們編列了這樣子的預算卻沒辦法達到目標我們編列了這樣子的政策卻讓基層難為我要幫基層講話"},{"start":25834.845,"end":25856.514,"text":"這部分我希望能夠帶到,也希望院長可以一起支持,可以嗎?好,謝謝。好,第二個我想再探討一個問題,現在流感疫情雖然下降,疾管署也預估三月中旬可以脫離高峰期,但是面對冬季流感的高峰,新冠疫苗,我們現在有這樣新冠的一個經驗,對流感未來政府有什麼因應措施,我們有準備什麼?我有幾個問題要就教。"},{"start":25858.055,"end":25879.481,"text":"快篩試劑屬於醫療器材列管需由醫師以及醫療人員來做一個人員使用新冠疫情的時候未讓民眾能夠在家中就自行篩檢減少前往醫療院所的一個需求同意開放藥局在販售家用型的新冠疫苗試劑"},{"start":25881.101,"end":25881.321,"text":"量夠不夠"},{"start":25900.951,"end":25924.098,"text":"我們希望衛部要流感的快篩試劑要把這個準備的存量要長期的來規劃這個我不懂是篩檢或者是藥物的存量都沒有問題篩檢試劑但我現在要講的新冠疫情現在藥局有販售家用型的篩檢試劑新冠篩檢試劑有家用型的但是請問目前家用型的流感快篩試劑有販售嗎有嗎"},{"start":25928.597,"end":25952.118,"text":"流感應該都是在診所檢查來啦目前家用型的流感快篩試劑是沒有販售我要講重點為了讓流感防治措施能夠更加的靈活我建議將藥師週刊的第2004期刊登的全聯會支持調整防疫政策藥局開放販售流感快篩試劑納入考量"},{"start":25954.68,"end":25961.068,"text":"請問一下院長您覺得比照新冠開放藥局販售流感型的家用快篩試劑"},{"start":25962.362,"end":25987.009,"text":"這還是要經過專業的評估 這個醫學的專業 我無法在這裡馬上但是我有提出數據了嘛 我有提出這些週刊的一些內容嘛 你可以參考嘛但是我要講的是 新冠跟流感這兩種都是呼吸道傳染的都有類似的症狀 導致第一線的醫護他不易區分 他必須要有所謂的 我要去用快篩試劑那我想問一下 部長 有沒有二合一的快篩試劑新冠跟流感"},{"start":25989.476,"end":26011.353,"text":"有部分在...有嘛,是醫療人員在使用嘛所以我呼籲政府,不論是新冠或者是流感因應未來的可能性,突發性的一個可能有可能大爆發,快篩試劑一定要備足讓醫療人員能夠快速正確的去分類病人我想用藥更正確,快篩試劑的使用也給予醫療人員不足的偏鄉或者是離島地區作為初步篩檢嘛"},{"start":26013.374,"end":26030.024,"text":"所以販售這個所謂的家用型流感的快篩試劑希望你們評估我們會請專家再來評估再來我想問一下 院長小金庫你有沒有聽過小金庫我所指的是勞動部的小金庫你有沒有聽過"},{"start":26035.663,"end":26048.092,"text":"我們不准許未來用這樣的名詞來形容他我們會讓他自己被促改那曾經被這樣子稱呼過您知道原因吧我知道外界媒體各界的民間都有這樣就是救安基金嘛但這個是不對的事情就是救安基金不用緊張不會叫你那有聽過衛福部有小金庫嗎我從來沒有聽過從來沒有聽過講出來嚇一跳耶好來"},{"start":26059.622,"end":26083.817,"text":"依據衛生福利部食品藥物管理署審查費用人員管理要點我們來看一下第二點本要點所稱的審查雇用人員細指本署以及受僱者訂立勞動契約禁用負責從事藥物食品化妝品審查及稽查相關業務人員第四點我們再來看本要點所指的各項作業經費均由本署編列預算之一"},{"start":26084.557,"end":26088.622,"text":"我們來看一下重點要來啦院長食藥署的審查費就是衛福部的小金庫"},{"start":26098.769,"end":26122.398,"text":"院長 部長說明不然委員這個需要時的審查費已經二十年沒有漲了但是整個人力整個成本我沒有說你漲價的問題啊我們來看一下是你怎麼去使用這筆錢我們就看這個問題院長你看一下我二月十一發文三月七號才收到回函啊花了二十四天你們的行政效率還真好啊"},{"start":26123.615,"end":26127.496,"text":"根據114年3月7日FDA主計字、地號我們1142300074號函108年到113年各年度的藥物、食品、化妝品審查費之稅入金額及審查僱用人員的經費相關資料顯示"},{"start":26143.339,"end":26171.825,"text":"我們來看一下這些肉肉等但是我想院長您先稍微了解一下但最重要的是院長你可知道審查費用僱用人員有幾個特點第一所僱人力其中的10%得配置於行政人力外其餘40%規定應禁用於辦理藥品醫療器材食品化妝品等審查還有茶廠等相關業務的專業人員喔其他的不相關業務是不能使用喔"},{"start":26173.078,"end":26183.101,"text":"聽起來合理啊我們再看自110年啊每年所使用的這個用人經費稅出預算50%編列107年到109年為45%編列110年變50%所經費屬行政院核定的專款專用收支並列"},{"start":26197.625,"end":26213.377,"text":"而且這筆經費的多寡是依廠商繳交的規費裁員而定那接下來我想詢問一下幾個問題院長那你知道食藥署怎麼用這筆錢嗎你有掌握嗎 院長如果收取規費一定有收取的標準"},{"start":26213.957,"end":26215.639,"text":"依據食藥署提供113年審查僱用人員其徵才結果公告"},{"start":26235.42,"end":26255.891,"text":"舉例我們來請教一下院長跟部長請問這些工作是不是跟藥物食品化妝品審查的稽查業務有關係請問一下協助薪資業務審查業務到底有什麼相關審查費來聘司機請問司機跟審查業務有什麼關係這誰的司機部長這是不是審查員的司機"},{"start":26261.771,"end":26288.456,"text":"報告委員我想我們審查人員有沒有配司機任何一個任何一個部門一定都是依規定來辦理你現在就被我抓到了嘛你用這一筆財源你在聘司機嘛告訴我審查人員有沒有聘司機你有沒有專聘司機給審查人員去茶廠還是這是你部長的司機如果說他是茶廠或者是審查人員出門有沒有司機啊你回答我啦"},{"start":26289.366,"end":26301.986,"text":"那可能需要啊有需要確定喔從今天開始審查員所有的都配司機喔不是配啦就是他是公務車的啦過往每一個審查員出去查場都一定有司機確定嗎"},{"start":26305.119,"end":26308.022,"text":"現在基本上審查人員如果沒時機就找部長我們再來看 協助執行新興媒體的宣導計畫相關業務 請問一下這是1450嗎"},{"start":26329.687,"end":26352.743,"text":"你所編列的這個協助新興媒體宣導計畫請問跟剛剛所提的相關業務有什麼關係因為現在的一個健康的知識或者是不管我們要做任何的一個健康的一個不管健康知識的傳導你講話越來越心虛來 第三個辦理立法院質詢議題擬達會診審查業務跟這什麼關係"},{"start":26358.664,"end":26387.709,"text":"有時候委員會要求來做說明 他們必須及時趕到我想這三點喔 司機 新興媒體還有立法院 審查 擬達 會診作為現在我們看到的所謂的審查相關的藥廠 還是食品 化妝品相距甚遠我覺得在這個部分上 你運用這一筆款項到底合不合理部長 你覺得呢"},{"start":26389.434,"end":26413.88,"text":"我想所有的華為一定是跟這個規定相關我們一定會確實去要求這樣子如果你現在這樣子跟我回答想必這些業務應該是非常的有很多數使用所以你會編列這麼多徵才人事相關的資料這厚厚一點這厚一點是什麼"},{"start":26415.094,"end":26434.537,"text":"這一箱東西是衛生福利部113年12月12日的資料根據食藥署108年到113年10月31公告歷年的審查費用人員資格聘查相關的偵查結果我要告訴你這一欄當中除了整個食藥署的政風處以外"},{"start":26435.583,"end":26462.702,"text":"你幾乎整個食藥署雨露均沾每一個人都使用這一筆經費在聘請這些所謂的司機新興媒體以及剛剛所提到的立法院你答詢會診相關業務這些偵查資料你為什麼沒有放在網路上供國人繼續閱覽你為什麼撤下來來我問你這些職缺資訊歷年來的什麼時候掛回去一天兩天三天就這麼多"},{"start":26464.309,"end":26466.837,"text":"這些全部都是人民的血汗錢啊部長"},{"start":26469.807,"end":26497.876,"text":"好 依規定需要掛載網路的我們一定掛載網路如果需要再補我們一定是把它完成我想每個單位都有類似這樣子一個狀況我要再講的是 院長不是負責藥物食品化妝品審查相關稽查人員有188人188人啊上有部分錄取者學歷並未符合當初公告的"},{"start":26499.586,"end":26513.485,"text":"還能予以任用這就是在第一會期我講的你們就是公告了 結果呢來的人不適合不符合資格 繼續任用再來那個我們已經處理了很多 不只啦 不只啦部分 我現在沒有要針對"},{"start":26514.586,"end":26538.511,"text":"求職者我不針對求職者我針對的是已經知道這些不符合我們的相關徵才以及不能運用這筆錢你還故意用這筆錢我要再講的是部分負責從事藥物食品化妝品審查稽查人員只有部分不是全職有112年食藥署113年11月檢送相關的雇用人員名冊中359人"},{"start":26540.891,"end":26566.298,"text":"院長你知道嗎不是跟部分有從事這樣子的業務有198人佔了5乘5的比例5乘5就以113年審查費用雇用經費3.3億多元其中不是負責從事這樣子的業務的人佔了3成將近浪費了人民血汗錢1億多院長這怎麼交代"},{"start":26567.752,"end":26581.388,"text":"委員我要請教你說了很多的數字但是具體的內容到底是什麼如果你有進一步請你指教否則我會請衛生部回去了解這麼多的人或你說的三成五成那到底他具體做了哪一些不是在原來規範當中的行為跟業務"},{"start":26583.731,"end":26599.834,"text":"謝謝院長那您需要更掌握精確的數字才可以去評斷但我要講的是剛剛這些數據不是我我就拿出來給你看都是我們所知出來的我們幫你彙整出來的我們幫你了解出來的我想院長根據行政院109年的公文他說所顧人力啊"},{"start":26600.214,"end":26624.575,"text":"自110年起每個用人的經費稅數預算是50%編列其途中的一個10%編制10%的行政能力以外其餘人禁用辦理藥品醫療登記以及器材食品化妝品相關的勘驗審查還有茶廠相關業務那請問一下邱部長有照這樣做嗎"},{"start":26625.711,"end":26652.549,"text":"我們願意整個檢討裡面人力的分佈的狀況我現在看就是有問題我才提出109年有這樣子的公文我想這個部分目前有鐵一般的證據我都會一併交出去本席所提出的政府機關濫編預算胡亂使用的問題希望行政立法共同解決我想這政府預算是人民的血和錢"},{"start":26653.61,"end":26682.382,"text":"如果現在你說不知道那我想我到時候會把這些資料全部交給審計由審計來查嘛那由審計來查以後我希望本席將今日函請審計不查核同時我也會複資通知我們各藥協會以及醫療器材的全聯會我想其次依照目前藥品醫療器材的登記申請查驗的登記案查驗的流程大致我們可以看到A 藥品"},{"start":26683.237,"end":26710.513,"text":"我們看一下B 醫療器材C 國外品質的系統審查院長現行大部分的查驗登記幾乎完全以計畫式的委辦CDE以及相關的團體來做審查實要屬僅做複合式的審查是複合式啊其業務量可屬署內這些既有的審查人員大概只要現在的三分之一的量就可以了"},{"start":26711.158,"end":26739.383,"text":"那為何這些審查費用聘用這麼多非從事還有部分從事審查相關業務的人員這就是我要問就是服邊了嘛服邊了你去濫用嘛所以一隻牛剝兩層皮對得起全國人民嗎這就是勞動部的救安基金翻版就在衛福部嘛所以這就是衛福部的一個小金庫政府濫用預算的實際主要我們食藥署的業務非常完重我們為了守住人民的一個藥品醫材的"},{"start":26740.163,"end":26766.185,"text":"的一個安全部長你講的話我必須打一個大大的問號還記得我們第一次在質詢的時候你告訴我人沒有問題到現在你跟我講已經處理掉了就代表著我講的是對的那我現在提出了第一頁的證據我有這麼厚厚一疊的資料我希望你們去好好看清楚本席再次強調我不是針對入局者我也不是針對所有的應徵的入局者"},{"start":26766.445,"end":26795.507,"text":"而是針對在開立這個條件這個單位我們就是要使得多少年輕的燃救人才在那邊努力不按編預算福報人士 院長這一切的資料我們就等審計部查核以後我們再來談在陽光下跟全民來交代但是我要講的是本席建議待審計部如果查證以後錢的部分對於多年來如果不當審查預算的一個經費逐年歸還你不當實用啊"},{"start":26796.207,"end":26812.864,"text":"可以嗎委員您剛剛所舉的很多的規定包括人力的這個規劃跟你產生的結論我說中間有很大的落差有沒有落差你也要看數據嘛我們交給審計部去調查沒關係到底這個不當的使用你要具體的說出來是哪一些人不當的使用那我們絕對願意來查"},{"start":26814.105,"end":26817.028,"text":"我剛剛已經講了 司機是不是所有審查員的司機到底是部長的司機 還是審查員的司機新興媒體到底跟茶廠還有相關的業務有沒有關係剛剛的地法院 現在你說是有關於新興藥物或者是所謂的藥品食品的一些網路媒體宣傳沒關係嘛 我們審計部來查嘛"},{"start":26834.562,"end":26852.187,"text":"所以我說最後的結論 為不不就可以把它查得很清楚了好 委員會自己先來把它查清楚這就是我們看到的一個數據但我要講的是 院長如果現在我們看到這些問題我們就是面對問題 解決問題但是不能跳通啊"},{"start":26853.393,"end":26875.16,"text":"有一個規定然後講一個結論中間是邏輯不同這樣我們也沒有辦法我剛剛講的是有一個規定但我提出了相關的數據我也去掌握了一些名冊而名冊裡面有188人是不是從事相關的業務那112人是部分這個我都有提出而且是由你們所提出的這個名冊我加以回應的"},{"start":26877.42,"end":26896.57,"text":"也不能說不同的部門就沒有不同我們繼續講沒關係我們濫增審查費服用人士我現在是這樣子定調沒關係你們兩位有意見我可以尊重但是人多真的好辦事嗎我們先來看一下在精進藥品品質提升審查速率有提升嗎"},{"start":26897.799,"end":26915.974,"text":"院長部長有提升嗎?現在人很多有提升嗎?答案並沒有因為根據我手上掌握的資料我們現在還是在台灣有發生下列這些實況第一中國製的醫療器材藉由國外席產地透過不實的標示輸入國內審查"},{"start":26918.476,"end":26921.419,"text":"沒有掌握 還是有這樣的現況一直在發生是有未取得生產合法資訊輸入國內販售還是有這樣的狀況一直在產生喔"},{"start":26933.288,"end":26952.363,"text":"我現在是說我們人力有超過那目前審查費也編了也收了但是我們國內一直有層出不窮這幾個問題第三設有核准不具有製造該輸入的醫療器材之國內外的製造廠廠QSD等豎起檢驗試劑的違法知情事"},{"start":26956.087,"end":26972.422,"text":"我想針對食藥署核准6000多家QSD的廠商審閱目前我只查了約五分之一就已經找到十幾家有問題的廠商這難道不嚴重嗎審查的品質有變好嗎謝謝委員請你把那十幾家的資料給我們"},{"start":26973.163,"end":26994.692,"text":"我也會要求衛福部就這三項真的有這三項我們疏忽了沒有發現了而讓他在國內造成任何的醫療行為上的偏失絕對不允許我們會查也請你把那16000多家我們一起來查我希望把事情重視一起維護國人的健康這部分可以好所以拜託委員把那十幾項給我們我們會查好 謝謝我們下一個議題"},{"start":27002.775,"end":27012.988,"text":"院長我想跟你請教一個問題小朋友大概要打幾個疫苗0到2歲您大概知道嗎部長你可以回答這個部長來回答0到2歲我想那個從"},{"start":27020.677,"end":27023.978,"text":"好 沒關係 對不起 我無意刁難我無意刁難沒關係 因為太多了 我能夠體諒院長 這是公費這是公費 但是我要唸的"},{"start":27047.557,"end":27076.101,"text":"高端腸病毒71型自費哈多辛621自費日本腦炎活性減毒疫苗自費水痘疫苗自費麻疹德國麻疹篩腺炎混合疫苗也是自費破傷風減毒白喉非細胞型百日咳三合一疫苗也是自費B型肝炎A型肝炎B型腦膜以及肺炎練球訓有23架的有13架的15架的以及輪狀病毒口服疫苗三劑型的"},{"start":27077.349,"end":27095.266,"text":"零零總總加起來兩三萬院長我講這個議題很簡單0到2歲孩子有許多的公費疫苗是現在政府的政策給他0元可以施打但是有更多自費型的疫苗需要政府來幫忙協助"},{"start":27097.509,"end":27115.186,"text":"可以認同多編列我們相關的一些政策來給予這些少子化的家庭幫助讓他們的疫苗比如說像長病毒免費施打這個部分您可以認同嗎部長答覆前公費疫苗我相信一定是全面廣泛而且是必要的急迫的那智慧的疫苗如果它將來也因為"},{"start":27116.747,"end":27145.607,"text":"比較多的案例或是健康之所需要在政府財政衡量底下我認為應該優先來考量優先來考量 院長你這樣說那我請問一下部長您認為哪些是優先報告委員我們這個都按照疾管署的ACIP一個很可以全國的防疫專家組成的一個委員會有沒有在瞭解這個狀況一個一個去審查他有一個從公衛的角度目前有沒有審查哪一個部分可以優先可能提供所謂的自費變成公費"},{"start":27147.293,"end":27167.423,"text":"腸病毒可以嗎腸病毒因為他我們在ACIP的裡面論理他的流行的型有時候跟疫苗的型是不一樣的沒關係我剛剛所提的有這麼多樣抓住所以他們ACIP就認為說先還好你腸病毒還你其他的有沒有機會這個部分我哪時候給我資料你們哪時候審查出來"},{"start":27168.68,"end":27191.095,"text":"哪一方面的哪一個疫苗自費型的疫苗我剛剛講了這麼多有沒有機會其他的不是所謂的腸病毒以外的有沒有機會納入公費哪時候公布我剛剛念了這麼多那個要一個一個進去那個委員會去審查剛剛院長不是說了如果可以的話優先嘛照顧孩子少子化"},{"start":27192.578,"end":27210.191,"text":"則無旁貸吧但是也要考慮他的效率當然我尊重所以這個專業這部分我發聲你處理嘛再來我要講的是院長我要講我們來舉一個例子您聽聽看假設小秋一家三口小秋的薪資所得每月健保費是一千五"},{"start":27210.951,"end":27235.802,"text":"小秋的老婆現在每月健保費是800元那小孩子是跟著媽媽投保嗎就是也是800 1500 800 800但是一家三口合計現在是3100後來如果媽媽她選擇了加入離開職場做全職媽媽做全職媽媽這個媽媽就要跟著爸爸一起投保健保所以她剛剛的800就變成1500"},{"start":27238.323,"end":27257.145,"text":"那孩子是不是也是跟著所謂的家長也就是爸爸一起投保所以一千五直接變成成與三我想問一下院長剩時間不多對於要做全職的媽媽或全職的爸爸他離開職場結果他的健保費增加"},{"start":27258.243,"end":27258.263,"text":"好 謝謝"},{"start":27282.512,"end":27287.5,"text":"謝謝羅廷偉委員的質詢謝謝左院長各部會部會所長的背景謝謝現在我們休息4點15分繼續開會好謝謝"},{"start":27938.154,"end":27939.418,"text":"報言會我們現在繼續開會接下來我們請登記第25號邱志偉委員請諮詢"},{"start":27963.723,"end":27968.445,"text":"好 謝謝主席 又請行政院我們左院長麻煩再請左院長備詢議長好 我有15分鐘請教六個問題"},{"start":27982.247,"end":28007.073,"text":"第一個問題就是你禮拜四多久了,七十多年紀念會的時候,總統說很久了,要通知台灣你禮拜四做為很多台灣人失去的事務他是一個獨裁者,獨裁者所犯下的滔天大罪"},{"start":28008.106,"end":28032.045,"text":"所以去年我也是在這個地方請教,跟李洛媽兄處理在裡面,在紀念堂裡面的憲兵在那裡抄眼,現在刷出來外面未來,我希望進一步轉型正義的部分在這個特別對獨裁者的師父臨請跟大師臨請臨請的意思是什麼?"},{"start":28037.659,"end":28064.757,"text":"林鄭月娥屬於帝王的墳墓就像這個帝王把他的神格化變成一個帝王為獨裁者起一個慈悟靈情他哪裡慈啊他一點都不慈白色恐怖的蔣經國還有一個大勢靈情而都有我們的國軍在那"},{"start":28066.753,"end":28090.725,"text":"戰哨戰哨是說還有相關的這個交接這個浪費國家的這個兵力浪費國家的資源為一個獨裁者這個部分可能也一定要請教國防部還有文化部老闆請國防部 文化部請備詢那我想請教一下卓院長您的看法怎麼樣未來要怎麼樣針對這個這兩個獨裁者的這個領請"},{"start":28095.499,"end":28120.66,"text":"謝謝委員我這個有這個機會向委員也向大家說明那天我是全程在場在總統當場的講話我們聽到他的真正他的意義是希望台灣這個中華民國這個國家民主的國家要告別那種封建的帝王式的您說的以及那種在族群之間或是文化之間落差所造成的傷害是希望以後都不會再發生"},{"start":28121.638,"end":28139.1,"text":"所以他在那邊講話原意在這裡那不會發生重要我們要從有真相 道歉 到究責這三個部分要很清楚的向社會也向受害人表達一個政府基本的態度那對獨裁者的我們的態度"},{"start":28140.117,"end":28169.615,"text":"也很重要啊是我不能還能派國家的資源國家的衛兵國家的這個國軍去為一個這個獨裁者去守他的墳墓這沒有道理這個未來一定要拿出積極的做法轉型正義要落實這個是一個關鍵這個過去的總統也曾經處理過類似這樣的事情也希望能夠處理但是就社會的共識跟這些"},{"start":28170.666,"end":28197.896,"text":"家屬的意見還沒有達到一致但是我們認為 衛兵裁設有那麼困難嗎我想請教部長我們認為我們現在應該就整個國家的環境裡面是應該有適當的處理方法可以讓他們有一個安心的地方我了解 但是衛兵的裁設為一個獨裁者有派那麼多衛兵這個30人的編制這為什麼不能把他為什麼不能這個一定要在那邊操演嗎一定要在那邊駐守嗎"},{"start":28200.504,"end":28221.434,"text":"這個部長我回答一下因為有一個去年7月15號原來是在大廳的那個一對那個是條例我了解但是這個所謂領請這是辦法 辦法是可以修改的我現在講中央紀念堂以下來之後的結果給委員了解一下"},{"start":28221.974,"end":28245.081,"text":"就是我們在部長那個我都了解因為我諮詢的關係我說你這個所謂中正那個是屬於這個條例那是法律那是辦法 零錢是相關的辦法辦法是可以修改的是屬於行政命令就可以修改的但你要不要做而已我想這個議題我大概就到這邊希望說院長以您的高度然後兩位部長能夠重視這個問題好 第二個問題要請教兩位部長先請 會長"},{"start":28251.477,"end":28271.465,"text":"這個中國藉由兩岸的交流對台灣進行統戰的滲透特別是有一些藝人在中國發展他演藝事業這個情況之下會變成他宣傳的一個工具所以比如說最近發表對台灣主權傷害的言論或者轉貼一些文章"},{"start":28272.694,"end":28294.154,"text":"那當然總統說話,就是說主管機關應當對中國藝人的相關的管理或者輔導要有一些明確的措施但我覺得這些只是道德的勸說所以我提案修改兩岸人民關係條例人民關係條例第九條,第九條搭配法則第九十一條"},{"start":28295.359,"end":28320.141,"text":"把這個樣態寫出來,不只藝人,相關的國人如果在中國對台灣的主權相關的傷害的言論當然要受到一定法的規範,甚至要有相關的裁罰裁罰,我是搭配兩岸人民關係條例裁罰的標準,當然是五萬人裁罰有很多鄉親跟我說,這裁罰太輕了"},{"start":28321.96,"end":28345.609,"text":"我想請教我這樣子提這兩樣的難民關係條例的修法搭配你們相關的行政作為這樣子呢 相互相成這個我想請教一下院長的意見我覺得藝人應該很清楚自開始的時候來自台灣國人的掌聲才讓他們在文化世界上有所進展"},{"start":28346.564,"end":28374.208,"text":"但是如果因為嚮往或是看到以為中國大陸的那樣的市場但是忘了這個生養他的地方會讓他斷了根而且中國的地方你看多少藝人去想抓就抓財產想沒就沒這個部分絕對不是一個穩定的民主社會該有的所以我認為還是讓他們希望能夠把根留在台灣但是向全世界去發展我們會發展我們自己強而有力的以台灣"},{"start":28374.848,"end":28399.275,"text":"本土為主的一個主流以台流的文化來強化我們自己內部那是一個長期的過程那是一個理想化的狀態但是他們迫於無奈他們有很多的這個是沒有辦法自我選擇的這個是中性行為但是要記得掌聲給他們是從台灣開始的但他們不會這麼想那我從法制面去修改然後一定的法律規範一定的這個處罰那個陸委會的立場"},{"start":28402.767,"end":28422.184,"text":"謝謝邱委員 謝謝您的用心如果相關的違法樣態能夠在法律裡面定清楚那當然在我們做規範樂觀啟程對 我這邊是樂觀啟程以我的版本當作行政院的版本這個部分我們再來跟委員來演繹好 謝謝這個就是"},{"start":28424.679,"end":28443.966,"text":"怎麼樣用法制面再補充現有法制面的不足讓他們的相關作為有一些約束謝謝邱主委第三個問題我想是台灣駐外代表證明的進度在2021年我還是請外交部吳次長麻煩請外交部備詢"},{"start":28446.277,"end":28462.43,"text":"我在2021年我就開記者會希望外交部有一個推動正名小組能夠通令所有的駐外館處能夠積極在台灣一片友好的國際環境當中能夠推動所有的外館都是以台灣為名"},{"start":28464.171,"end":28490.499,"text":"我希望這個當作外管考核的一個重要指標而不是只有美國當然美國跨黨參議員提出的台灣自民法這非常好但是這個過程需要很多的努力我希望說國外交部能夠組成一個推動證明小組通令跟管住能夠確實去執行達成這個目標我想請教一下吳次長您的"},{"start":28493.269,"end":28521.408,"text":"報告委員其實那個更改就是管署證明還牽扯到一個比較複雜的問題就是我們要更改的那個管署跟他承載來自中國壓力的一個問題很多國家是無法承載來自中國的壓力的所以以我在法國六年多的一個經驗事實上是先我們先把多在對外的說明多加上台灣"},{"start":28522.428,"end":28546.677,"text":"那多加上台灣之後 讓大家在使用的時候多使用這個會變成一個 變成一個 一個就大家都會自然如果我打斷你 你要講我都了解我的用意很簡單我希望說外交部要有一個小組要通令跟管束每一個作為管束 都一定有他的難度啦難度不一 但是一定要努力可操是在己的部分 你要通令給這個"},{"start":28547.917,"end":28576.821,"text":"駐外的大使你要想方設法用盡任何關係短期、長期、中期總是要有一些進展每一個駐外管束都有不同的狀況我都理解但是一定要正視這個問題如果我們不做這名稱永遠不會改所以這是一個長期的目標另外格力蘭最近一位川普對格力蘭的看法格力蘭選舉昨天才落幕但我們跟格力蘭的距離其實沒有那麼遠"},{"start":28578.359,"end":28601.326,"text":"你從哥本漢過去大概只有5個小時現在是我們住的代表住所管轄它是北京航道的一個重要戰略位置它有稀土還有資源還有漁產還有美國的基地在那邊也有一些科研的基地我們不能完全跟格陵蘭沒有任何的互動"},{"start":28602.711,"end":28613.648,"text":"那經過我去了解我目前駐大班辦事處過去跟格力蘭的議會31席沒有任何的互動我是覺得還是要跟他們有互動雖然政黨有換"},{"start":28614.81,"end":28636.569,"text":"但是基本的立場沒有變但是四海皆是朋友所以不能說他比較遙遠我們就完全沒有跟他接觸況且未來有很多他們基礎建設不足況且很多能源開發也許我們台灣可以Do something市長您的意見"},{"start":28639.62,"end":28664.114,"text":"我想格力蘭當然像剛才委員講的他是我們駐丹麥代表處那邊所負責的我們現在跟丹麥其實還有一些其實也是一些名城的問題我們有待解決那我想我們一定會遵照委員的一個訓令訓令那個駐丹麥的代表先期比較不冷的時候我想再組個團去"},{"start":28665.871,"end":28693.181,"text":"去了解一下這個當地的環境他們追求獨立的雖然只有5萬7千人口是臺灣面積的200倍如果有機會的話我也希望說能夠跟他們有一些的互動不管是國會或者行政部門謝謝吳次長好 謝謝委員第四個問題是經濟方面就是說面對關稅戰跟中國的傾銷我想這部分可能要請到郭部長請經濟部郭部長麻煩請經濟部長備詢"},{"start":28696.295,"end":28722.672,"text":"這個部分我們在南部 南部是傳統的製造業 傳統產業為主傳統產業他們有一點想法 有一點抱怨政府把所有資源集中在半導體跟AI水電完全供應所有的政策的焦點都放在AI跟半導體傳統的製造業比較少得到政府的關愛或者是協助當然這不完全是事實"},{"start":28725.745,"end":28750.756,"text":"但是他們有一些抱怨是我們是不是要放棄這個傳統產業了我們是不是不再顧我們傳統產業我們就是發展AI跟半導體特別我在這個像鋼杉是螺絲扣件是鋼鐵所以我覺得應該趕快推動傳統產業升級轉型2.0來讓從傳統產業能夠轉型能有更多的競爭力能夠讓他們安心是政府永遠做你們的後盾"},{"start":28751.917,"end":28777.016,"text":"所以我擔心這個高國民所的情況之下是由產業發展不均衡所造成的影響所造成的結果但你不要忘了很多中南部的從業人口都是做這個傳統產業所以我覺得經濟部或者行政院或政府應該讓傳統產業業者知道政府絕對是拿出具體的做法跟資源讓你們安心協助你們轉型讓你們維持競爭力這部分這個"},{"start":28780.023,"end":28805.742,"text":"報告委員對於AI來協助中小微企業成長的部分我們大概有兩個做法第一個就是他需要的訂單我們從通路上面來支持他第二個在AI的訓練上面除了數位化我想他們不一定能夠完全的能夠了解所以我們就是讓他席坐那我們會責成我們所屬的這些"},{"start":28806.582,"end":28813.166,"text":"村長要來訓練有很多類別我讓他來做所以我讓工廠來幫他行善你要有整個大戰略村長產業升級轉型2.0你要明確村長產業中哪一部分更貼的、更健的"},{"start":28826.254,"end":28846.912,"text":"各有他的問題土地問題資金的問題人才的問題或者勞動力的問題沒有錯我們現在就是用AI進入整個他需要生產的那我們協助他進入那個生產的這個情境如果他是服務業的我們也讓他進入服務業的這個情境讓他席坐"},{"start":28847.712,"end":28876.421,"text":"學習不是只有學 也讓他習作部長 政策要落實需要一點時間我了解但是你要讓這個中小企業組傳統企業 傳統產業 中小企業讓他們了解政府的確有權利吸收他們但是他們反應給我說他們好像是政策的企額一樣要求部長我們更廣泛大規模的跟中小企業 中小企業做說明我們做了一些比較分散型的 集中起來做說明"},{"start":28876.841,"end":28879.724,"text":"希望淨零轉型不會給他帶來成本的負擔"},{"start":28903.953,"end":28911.981,"text":"好 謝謝邱志偉委員的諮詢 謝謝卓院長 各相關部會所長的備詢 謝謝接下來我們請登記第27號對 26號 呂玉琳委員請諮詢謝謝主席 請卓院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢"},{"start":28936.752,"end":28939.897,"text":"謝謝 呂委員好卓院長 我想先給你看一個表格"},{"start":28941.207,"end":28953.33,"text":"就是我們去年國營事業有四大國營事業他們的營業上的虧損情形除了是台糖有盈餘57.51億以外其餘的像台電虧損了411億中油虧損了355億台水虧損了41.83億在這種情形之下財務狀況這麼困難的情況之下我們"},{"start":28967.338,"end":28984.586,"text":"看到就是關西子從台電來講的話台電的虧損的情形就是因為能源配比的問題那現在2016年我們因為我們執意要非核家園的作為目標現在馬上就2026年的今年是2025九個年頭過去了"},{"start":28987.688,"end":28994.434,"text":"這個虧損的情形就是一再發生也就是因為要非核加鹽所以到2026年的話我們的能源火力會50%燃煤會30%再生能源要20%的能源配比但是現在我們的再生能源的配比"},{"start":29004.523,"end":29021.937,"text":"達到的目標沒有到20%只有大概11.9%而已在這種情況之下在未來我們要如何讓我們台電這個反虧為盈這個是讓我們大家都要繼續努力的但是我們看到我們就是先給他增資了2500億又給他撥補了500億的情況之下他還是有虧損那目前來講"},{"start":29028.442,"end":29030.604,"text":"郭營的油電糖水四大公司"},{"start":29047.523,"end":29068.413,"text":"委員列出來這個表格三家比較呈現嚴重的虧損但是虧損我們都知道原因他都會有很多的政策的目標所以這個部分請部長說明一下為何如此虧損是部長怎麼解決根本問題在哪裡報告委員我想這個因為是當初是因為補貼的這一些不漲價的部分所以造成了這個虧損"},{"start":29070.174,"end":29088.999,"text":"那我們會從這個財務上面我想我們會...不是補貼造成虧損部長你這個語病不是補貼造成虧損是二零一年裡要非核家園的這個目標現在二零二六年了除不我們能源配補不正確政策需要檢討調整才能解決這個問題"},{"start":29090.439,"end":29112.349,"text":"報告委員我們當然是從各個方面產銷人發財行政跟這個AI的使用各方面的管理的構面下去來評估但是我們從財務面來看它是現在只是提一個財務面的改善那我們有很多的這個其他管理的手法我們也可以從產銷人發財上面"},{"start":29115.931,"end":29125.236,"text":"中油現在要提出了三年三千五百億的增資你支持吧我還沒有說到他要三千五百億增資我現在問的題目是這樣子我是請問院長部長中油要提出的增資"},{"start":29132.711,"end":29151.025,"text":"我們沒有收到徵友要提出政治我國營司也沒有收到這樣的一個命令他現在提出三年三千五百億現在提出來對準備要提出規劃還沒有嘛我就請問還沒有我們要做準備如果他提出來的時候我們會審視需不需要政治這樣好"},{"start":29151.687,"end":29157.629,"text":"我們講完台電講完中油就必須要跟你講一下這個台電的情形剛剛也講到這個虧損的情形那部長也講了這個撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥"},{"start":29181.095,"end":29195.184,"text":"才能夠解決所以你看到這個圖表現在目前來講的話火力發電自發電力的話大概2.87如果是購入發電的話是3.46元太陽能的自發電的話是3.94還有我們太陽能的購入的話是4.87風力的話是4.40購入的話是6.59核能發電是多少成本是多少1.42"},{"start":29209.171,"end":29233.111,"text":"報告委員前面這幾件都是發電當下的成本核能的發電它有很多未來隱性的成本那個是非常非常當然當然有隱性啊人事有事的人事當然當然都有都有都要處理所以再生能源我們希望這個綠電要趕快的達標然後紓解我們未來把這個非核尤其是"},{"start":29233.912,"end":29261.615,"text":"非核 我們要用了核電啊今年的五月 核三長就要除役喔七月份就正式到非核加元所以很多 我們要講說道路非核的時候 那我們的再生能源能量能夠達到 我們要求的20%未來2030年的30%能夠達到嗎你能夠達到的話 才能夠讓我們電力穩定如果電力不穩定 院長 部長 企業它會不會出走 這是我們憂心的問題啊"},{"start":29263.903,"end":29285.866,"text":"報告委員我們會在明年這個2026年的11月我們會讓這個再生能源達到20%不是你要這樣數字會說話你今年才到達差不多12%而已今年到達12%而已對我們現在完全把他這個目前的你目前的太陽能"},{"start":29286.686,"end":29312.776,"text":"發電在12%裡面佔了7%你的風電的話佔了3%你明年要達到多少 您說多少我明年要達到20%20% 在什麼發電機突飛猛進呢用什麼再生能源的發電會讓你達到這20%沒有啊 我們就是按照我們所計畫的我們希望 你計畫要達到計畫一定可以超過"},{"start":29314.073,"end":29334.059,"text":"一定可以超過所以我也要請院長我們是要來做一個討論去做調整所以你要放眼看國際上大家的情勢不要每次看到核電你們就把他排除在外完全不願意把他納入去考量你看我們最鄰近的國家日本也好韓國也好在於韓國他在"},{"start":29335.839,"end":29340.842,"text":"2038年它的核電的結構就達到35.6%日本在2040年它核能就要達到20%包括美國它除以核電廠 它要重新檢視再來運轉這就是全世界對國際能源上大家的看法"},{"start":29357.811,"end":29381.793,"text":"所以美國他也說他願意協助我們對這個核電他可以協助我們去重新的來運轉那現在我們核能的管制在現行的法律底下我們5月17號要處理這個是法律的規定那法律沒有變更之前我們只能在法律的規定來做我知道院長你一定要講到法律的問題所以你要聽聽產業界的聲音所有產業界的聲音說沒有錯"},{"start":29383.755,"end":29408.962,"text":"我們從非核家園可以走進非碳家園在走進非碳家園的時候我們是不是更加的要全面的來做個調整跟檢討檢討什麼呢就是包括了我們包括了一些廚藝的核電廠它的設備它的機具是不是有安全在整個環境結構絕對安全之下我們來重新來讓有些廚藝的核電"},{"start":29410.202,"end":29433.381,"text":"就像某些核電廠40年的像美國也是啊40年的它可以延誼到60年安全無虞的情況之下它的設施都無虞的情況下我們可以讓它暫緩延誼可以來延誼的情形建議委員我們考慮一下這個名詞非核家園是沒有核能的發電 能源但非碳家園是連火力 連天然氣"},{"start":29434.701,"end":29449.14,"text":"只要產生冷碳都不行才叫非碳家園所以再生能源嘛再生能源要講說全部百分之百加生能源也是困難的再生能源有沒有碳是乾淨的能源嘛部長講過啊核電就是乾淨的能源啊非碳就是連火力都不能有才叫非碳"},{"start":29450.25,"end":29477.191,"text":"沒有錯 可是我們現在的情況之下我們在討論納入 逐步的來做到我們也希望全部都是非碳家園 這是最好的啊但是你要看到 你未來的話百分之八十 目前百分之八十都是火力發電我們的金骰的能源 我們的發電就是火力這是我們擔心的 未來的非核色的話百分之八十的火力的話 會達到非碳嗎"},{"start":29478.052,"end":29498.425,"text":"不可能啊,百分之二十也沒有非碳啊百分之八十也不會是非碳,它還是有碳所以我的戰略思想是所以你沒有聽到我們產業界的聲音嗎我的想法是減碳先行,目標淨零我們從減碳發起所以未來火力發電要降低到五十、三十以下減碳要先行嘛,未來目標是要達到淨零"},{"start":29500.106,"end":29523.894,"text":"那我們希望還是可以做能源倍比去調整好不好我們會照現在的目標前進只要一切的順序都降在大家的支持底下像副部長所說明年11年會跟院長部長討論這個問題就是因為台電這兩兄弟啊虧損連連都要用增資用補助的方式我們能夠怎麼樣去徹底的來解決他的財務的困境"},{"start":29524.654,"end":29530.237,"text":"這要講出辦法 解決辦法啊所以是不是能也對比 我們怎麼樣逐步來做到所以啊 所以你的天然氣 你的煤炭 國際的原物料跟著國際的局勢或許有波動嘛"},{"start":29542.682,"end":29558.566,"text":"才會讓我們電價越來越高 讓我們的成本越來越高發電成本越來越高 是不是台灣的原料靠外國進來的比例相當高你不要一直排斥 我就希望說我們要怎麼樣去解救這個台電跟我們的爭議一直虧損的情形開放討論跟新的核能技術來做結合"},{"start":29563.947,"end":29591.534,"text":"像那大家討論的合龍河啊小型核電廠我們希望農園配比要有一檔的我們的一個配比能夠調整這樣子我們的發電成本可以降低台電跟中油不要虧損那我們也可以穩定供電7月才能夠穩定它在我們台灣的工廠的發電產業的產業鏈的能夠順利的來運轉這才能夠保障他們不會有出走的情形好不好這是非常重要的好"},{"start":29592.975,"end":29612.866,"text":"接下來我們講完這個電,這個電有預告說四月份要漲電價,那漲電價的情形發生,那人民又要苦哈哈,又會影響到我們整個物價,因為我們中油台電它有穩定物價的責任,所以不能一直調漲。"},{"start":29613.906,"end":29637.368,"text":"那所以我想請教的就是說因為我們現在學校我們在我們政府的政策班班有冷氣冷氣我們補助了但是電費啊我們卻沒有每個學校補助為什麼呢因為我們12年國教應該是補助高中 國中 國小但是我們現在教育部部長 郭部長你先請回我們請教育部長"},{"start":29638.237,"end":29653.232,"text":"麻煩請教育部長備詢因為現在的電費是國中國小有補助高中子沒有補助那你給他冷氣那電費要自己來出的話讓學生的負擔家長的經濟負擔更加的沉重甚至於"},{"start":29654.173,"end":29676.287,"text":"他會用插卡式的或者錢不夠的話沒冷氣吹有冷氣沒有電就沒冷氣吹了這種情形之下我們是不是我有去查教育部的資料他說因為國中國小是義務教育所以這個是我們教育部我們政府的責任但是高中子不是義務教育那請問部長12年國教"},{"start":29678.522,"end":29704.427,"text":"現在幾乎國中99%的都為了提升他們的學業都有提升都有99%都念了高中職了那高中又在12年國教是不是應該都屬於義務教育部長打一下以後收支發分改變之後我們還能補助嗎跟委員報告我們事實上在14年我們事實上各級學校我們編了將近59億的這個經費要做這個"},{"start":29708.278,"end":29727.409,"text":"電匯的一個補貼但是因為另外在未來一個財化法還有我們一個統三我們現在這一個整個年度的一個預算裡面我們事實上是沒有辦法很精準的去理解到我們教育部目前可用的一個這一個年度的一個預算做這樣一個"},{"start":29728.343,"end":29743.252,"text":"補充說明那當然高中子裡面有許多來自於地方市這個各縣市市立的一個高中子我知道每次跟你們講到這個你們就提到才化法我們先講制度你全部補助冷氣的學校總共有三"},{"start":29751.088,"end":29777.566,"text":"3584個學校國小有2658個學校國中有732個學校你都補助了班班有冷氣也補助了電費高中值只有194校194校的學生你就不能補助嗎而且我們用制度面來講的話12年國教高中值都有自有的一個校務基金相當程度他們都有能力能夠負擔這樣一個水電費"},{"start":29779.107,"end":29803.948,"text":"就是沒有能力啊就是教育團體來跟本席反映希望我們能為他們發聲啊各位委員報告教育團體有許多的訊息他可能是不夠精準的你不能說他們不夠精準喔他們關心教育關心孩子他們是很精準的包括他們那個每個他們班費七百塊或是校務基金這個錢不夠所以才要請求你們協助我非常清楚"},{"start":29804.861,"end":29825.575,"text":"你非常清楚,那我告訴你,請問他們的班費繳多少?他們的校務基金繳多少?校務基金是來自於他們繳的雜費所累積滾輪,留在學校你是跟委員報告,我們高中職,國立高中職現在校務基金超過一億以上的,至少有20%"},{"start":29827.817,"end":29843.363,"text":"六千萬以上的有八成七成到八成委員知道這樣一個數據嗎但是我們委員很關心我非常感謝委員為學校爭取經費二十萬三十萬五十萬可是他們事實上"},{"start":29843.843,"end":29870.595,"text":"校務基金就可以拿出來使用但是他們都一直非常節約我也感謝委員關心學校教育但是我們許多中小學的一個校務基金他們沒有善加使用我想這可能也是委員在未來以後可以再進一步去了解的我也請部長謝謝部長下鄉去去了解他們怎麼樣使用冷氣插卡"},{"start":29871.991,"end":29894.053,"text":"卡片要儲值 插下去才可以用電那為什麼國中國小朋友呢我們這個近鄰的一個家園這裡邊怎麼樣讓校園永續發展我想使用這個電力 能源有效能這是我們學校教育在人才培育的一個很重要的目標"},{"start":29895.074,"end":29904.246,"text":"你講的我都懂 反正把事情都推走就是了有想要跟你講的是制度面請問十二年國教 為什麼叫十二年國教"},{"start":29908.675,"end":29920.866,"text":"所以國中 高中 國小 他們的能源 他們的資源是不是要一視同仁要不要一視同仁你教育補助費是補助國中 高中 你不補助高中嗎地方政府有責任"},{"start":29930.114,"end":29944.474,"text":"我想地方教育局也有責任他們必須要編年度的預算來協助中小學教育的一個發展當然中央跟地方是協力的是要共同讓台灣的教育發展更好"},{"start":29945.535,"end":29971.156,"text":"他們要 地方政府要協助他們來資源都能夠補助讓孩子們苦 我們全不能窮教育 苦不能苦了我們的孩子我們如果保護我們孩子 如果讓我們孩子資源能夠得到更好的保護 我們要做到的我跟委員的想法 態度是一致的一致的 我們一致從中央拿錢去 事情要中央來做"},{"start":29971.496,"end":29980.493,"text":"不是所以我請院長跟部長把我的問題聽清楚我們現在是講制度面"},{"start":29981.887,"end":30007.019,"text":"12年國教 高中 國中 國小他們的教育資源應該是一致性的不能有偏頗的你不能說高中部長就說使用者付費國小 國中不是使用者付費嗎所以不要有這種偏頗的言論我們用制度一致性的來講所以我還是請部長我們都非常了解地方的狀況每個學校的狀況這個問題 這個議題"},{"start":30009.66,"end":30023.153,"text":"是教育團體提出來 請我們來拜他們發聲的所以回去可以研議一下 可行性嘛不要一下在這邊就擋掉了所以我們可以研議好 那既然你院長這樣講話你才換法讓地方來自助高中 是不是這樣子"},{"start":30034.825,"end":30051.903,"text":"你是這樣子回答的嗎好 財務法下去將地方政府來補助高中的電費你的答案就這樣子不只這些 還有很多很多的我們現在各縣市地方政府有部分它的高中值是屬於市立的"},{"start":30052.443,"end":30073.431,"text":"那麼這個經費在當時就教育部已經全部編到播到地方去但是屬於國立的高中子當然是由國教署來負擔他們學校的營運所以我才要請問部長那屬於國教署的對不對有部分是屬於國教署的一個責任所以請部長回去研議一下不要這麼快就擋掉了因為這個是"},{"start":30080.153,"end":30093.877,"text":"這個教育團體大家集體的連署發聲希望我們讓部長讓院長知道高中也是需要補助這一塊當然我們的有冷氣也能夠有冷氣可以吹有電可以冷氣吹好不好好 謝謝部長那接下來部長我還是在討論學校的問題"},{"start":30098.658,"end":30124.179,"text":"那因為我們在討論學校這個學務人力不足的情況之下因為在前年的時候新北市發生殺警案那引起社會的關注就是校安的問題那根據112年在學校的校安安全的部分來分析就建議在不同學制的校安為了預防這個重點工作特別的讓我們針對各個學校"},{"start":30124.779,"end":30144.695,"text":"他們做了一個統計學校的這個校安的通報的統計素面我們看到我統計的包括國小、國中跟高中每個學校通報的情形在這個表上都有那我們撇開這個天災、疾病這個部分拿掉來最重要的"},{"start":30145.456,"end":30165.297,"text":"包括兒童跟少年的保護包括家暴或者行為偏差的暴力霸凌等等事件都非常非常的多那因為高中的時候有教官有這個教官的話在學校可以來幫忙維護來做勸導輔導的工作但是國中沒有啊"},{"start":30166.117,"end":30182.108,"text":"所以說這個柯警案的事情發生之後所以我們特別的就針對這個問題來給學校針對這個問題提出了一個叫做學務創新人力"},{"start":30183.271,"end":30204.55,"text":"因為教官預缺不補 越來越少 人力不夠所以你們就來個學務創新人力所以這三年的時間啊 他只有補了將近918人 1210人 1550人大概大概 一個學校大概補助了大概三人這三人而已 所以部長 這人數還是不夠喔"},{"start":30204.85,"end":30219.522,"text":"跟委員報告我進來以後事實上也感謝我們大院支持學生輔導法通過本來這就是希望說能夠有更多的一個心理輔導專業能夠來協助我們新世代的學生的一個成長"},{"start":30220.302,"end":30241.608,"text":"那第二個就是我們也看到因為特別在國中青少年的一個發展階段裡面他們在喜多的這些這個情緒的一個關係或者人際之間的一個互動我們也知道對學校在校安事件所以能力不夠啦還是要增加啦好不好所以院長在這個部分是非常關心所以我們才額外的編了這個才是雖然沒有辦法"},{"start":30245.089,"end":30250.776,"text":"一次到位 慢慢逐步 逐步所以部長 再跟你進一步的討論國中這個學校裡面校士人力的一些補充部長 因為我們這個學務創新人力是在高中"},{"start":30260.106,"end":30286.22,"text":"但是的話因為這個那個擱淺案發生之後的話我們就要加強到國中嘛你看這個數據國中還是需要很多人力的幫忙那國中部的話我們增加了這個學務人力就是補助國中設置副組長這個方案那國中的補助副組長但是有條件式的啦你要有61個班的人才可以補助1到3個副組長"},{"start":30287.031,"end":30296.639,"text":"我想我們總體的一個教育經會怎麼樣去用到刀口上那當然希望校園友善的校園裡面你讓我把話講完因為我問題還沒問出來嘛你就不要緊張讓我把問題問出來我其實想要回應委員的是說"},{"start":30304.486,"end":30323.126,"text":"這個友善校園的一個機制的一個建構還要包含社區家長包括警政我們事實上就一直在努力包含怎麼樣讓社區有更多的一個對學教育部長你不要把問題講完你怎麼回答不是我要的問題呢抱歉不是我要的答案我還沒有把問題講出來嘛"},{"start":30325.407,"end":30348.994,"text":"你不要占用我太多時間我的問題才問不到幾個而已我的意思是說現在我們的副組長要61班才可以增加1到3人但是你看到59班 58班 57班他們也是大學校但是沒有副組長的編制他們這麼多的班員沒有辦法只有教師要代理嗎沒有教師願意啊現在要備課"},{"start":30350.134,"end":30376.025,"text":"所以他們沒有辦法去也不願意來參加做這個組長的工作所以用代課老師所以在這個部分的話我說你可不可以說不要一下地了這麼高標到60班以上可不可以就是說40班或者50班50班增加兩個 60班增加三個這樣漸進式的話那你們的制度的美意就可以執行下去 是不是"},{"start":30376.873,"end":30403.516,"text":"謝謝委員的提醒的關心我想總是這個教育經費也要拜託委員未來能夠給更大力的一個支持你編制就已經是一到三人嘛那我說方法上可不可以調整一下我們會再更細緻來看怎麼樣業長你有聽懂我的意思啦業長一直點頭我們來看怎麼減少一個不要說六十班才可以一到三人因為確實有時候它的標準一切就變成"},{"start":30404.756,"end":30417.02,"text":"這個標準以下的可能一時之間就沒有我也同意委員所講到底切到六十班還是五十九班你的規則 你的規範裡面就是要六十一班以上所以我才說 這都是教育團體他們的聲音啦 他們的意見所以我也請你把它聽進去 做個討論給他們這四十班 五十班也可以有增加這個副組長這缺"},{"start":30430.745,"end":30433.369,"text":"謝謝委員提醒我們再來看怎麼樣也能夠對特殊狀況執行辦法會更加的"},{"start":30439.182,"end":30465.91,"text":"讓他們可以使用到 這才是重點啦好 那我們希望孩子的安全 我們來守護也請部長 院長 我們一起來做這個研議讓他們可以使用到更多來維護校安人員好不好當初我們五打七安 校安也是這樣還是安全啦我們會來重新加強檢視委員所提出的這個問題那謝謝齁那 部長您辛苦 您請回好了我接下來要請教育 交通部長喔"},{"start":30467.725,"end":30493.053,"text":"特別要提到的就是本席的區域裡面在平正龍潭在交通的環境上分別有國道1號跟國道3號中間會經過一條66的快速道路這個就是我們南桃園最主要的公路的資幹特別有這樣子的安排交通現在的話我們桃園鄰近的雙北有鐵路運輸跟公路運輸"},{"start":30494.093,"end":30512.175,"text":"那因為有國道還有這個市內的公車運輸在對我們平正龍潭是非常重要的那就是因為有公路運輸那我們更需要的就是一個轉運站轉運站那現在呢因為我們龍潭這個地方就要來做一個轉運站因為龍潭"},{"start":30514.218,"end":30526.633,"text":"車子開過來的話就到台北的永林在這邊台北的永林已經有公車轉運站了我們龍潭、平鎮都還沒有那我就先來講龍潭部分那龍潭的話我們要做一個整個這個"},{"start":30529.055,"end":30546.725,"text":"整開區的話時間要比較長包括土地的徵收還有那個都市計畫都要送到內政部去審查那要請內政部快一點幫我們審查通過但是我們也不能等待啦因為大家我們的民眾鄉親啊都在馬路邊上在等候車子是非常"},{"start":30547.065,"end":30561.298,"text":"安全而且辛苦的所以我們就有一份的短中長期那這個短期的話我們就會用在我們龍潭的運動公園用人行道跟這個公車站這個地方做公車站的停等這個廊道"},{"start":30562.039,"end":30577.82,"text":"那這個中期的話我們就會有一個仙島的轉運站就在這個交流道的這周邊我們先會租用了這個1250坪的這個用地啊來做一個仙島轉運站大概我們考慮到像八德的"},{"start":30578.12,"end":30597.572,"text":"他們是會用這簡易的貨櫃屋的方式來做這個我們臨時的這個仙島的轉運站那目前來講的話在這個去年的時候8月份我們已經匯刊完畢了在匯刊完畢的話在去年的12月31號我們也絕標公告那現在就是"},{"start":30598.252,"end":30622.426,"text":"土地的容許使用跟審查跟都市計畫的審議作業大概114年的7月我們拿到建造之後就可以施工115年的7月就可以完工115年的10月就可以啟用今天為什麼特別特別的來跟我們陳部長來溝通一下公車轉運站很重要如果你到我們地方去我剛剛也講了"},{"start":30623.106,"end":30650.488,"text":"他就在路邊太陽曬著在等車子沒有一個他們專門的一個候車的地方是很危險的所以我們現在短期的話就在運動公園旁邊就用現在的候車停的地方來等待所以我們必須要先做個先導的轉運站那目前的這個經費大概要一億那我們地方政府大概也會跟我們交通部提出申請大概補助三成"},{"start":30650.928,"end":30666.447,"text":"那這點的話部長可不可以承諾我們來補助我們報告委員桃園確實是客運的運輸非常的重要啦所以轉運站的部分您一直在爭取這個我曉得但是我們的這個公路局的這個公共運輸永續的交通平權的計畫的預算"},{"start":30667.828,"end":30693.948,"text":"目前有遭刪的也有遭凍結的所以目前預算還沒有確定之前其實我們很難答應這件事情不過現在桃園市政府他可以先做計畫那並且先用桃園市政府的錢先來做那未來如果我們預算確定之後有需要的話他們來申請我們會來協助部長這個經費我剛剛練了比較多一點時間就告訴你114年今年"},{"start":30694.861,"end":30704.95,"text":"要施工115年7月要來完工如果我們的才化法過那是明年才會有這個分配那今年的話我們今年跟你提出申請這個經費"},{"start":30707.225,"end":30735.042,"text":"不是很高啦我說的部分其實是總預算的部分所以說你今年如果送來給你審查的話是今年就要撥啦跟財務法是沒有關係啦財務法過是明年的事情這樣可以嗎我說的是總預算我們預算還沒有確定因為我們這一筆預算有被凍結也有被刪除的所以還沒有最後確定都說會解凍啦會解凍啦生意分子以後就會解凍啦對 如果能解凍的話我們會願意來協助解凍的話我們去申請就可以是不是"},{"start":30735.755,"end":30745.639,"text":"請他們來申請好謝謝李玉琳委員的資訊謝謝卓院長、各部會所長的備訓接下來我們請登記第27號陳冠廷委員請資訊"},{"start":30776.223,"end":30779.747,"text":"我們是不是先請院長好 麻煩請卓院長備選"},{"start":30790.813,"end":30813.883,"text":"謝謝陳維文好院長好院長這個我們總統就職以來那我們有一個很重要的一個核心就是我們施政的核心就是均衡台灣那均衡台灣裡面我還是想要再次強調就是包含在水資源的應用跟水資源的這個平權也是非常重要的"},{"start":30814.605,"end":30832.154,"text":"那根據資料顯示我們嘉義縣的山區的一些鄉鎮從大埔鄉、梵路鄉、梅山鄉、竹崎鄉、阿里山鄉還是有一些偏遠的這些村落仍然沒有辦法使用自來水那我特別講到大埔鄉的原因是因為曾文水庫就坐落在大埔鄉"},{"start":30832.734,"end":30855.564,"text":"但是他們有一些群居的地方還是沒有辦法有這個自來水的供應那這些地區的這些居民長期都需要用山泉水或是要用地下水所以說每逢這個旱季的時候或者是颱風過後那這些飲水的困難取水的困難都是非常大的風險"},{"start":30856.784,"end":30876.984,"text":"所以目前自來水的評估的這個管線的延伸主要的依據是用用戶接管比例或者是用投資效益來去評估那這種是用成本利益為導向的這種標準可能對人口稀少的一些鄉村會比較不利我想請教"},{"start":30879.65,"end":30899.013,"text":"院長因為我們知道今年有很多我們立法院朝野之間有很多的這一個攻防那其中當然就是預算的方式也是有受到很大的影響那請問院長如果現在院方有益補助的話或是改變我們現在的情況的話有沒有相關的裁員能夠支援"},{"start":30900.877,"end":30923.638,"text":"在計畫裡面是有的我們在114到118這幾年當中我們現在無自來水地區供水改善第五期的計畫在實施進行當中那這裡會對於這個沿管的工程我們會提高補助一般的民眾我們最高的補助過去是八十萬六十萬我們提高到八十萬"},{"start":30924.994,"end":30953.95,"text":"原住民的地方我們從80萬提高到100萬那至於有些水庫周遭或者是受到污染的地區我們也會從80萬提高到100萬所以我們已經有計畫也提高了補助的這種上限那預算的部分我認為我認為這個部分是不應該被刪減不應該 水電是重要民生必需應該不應該被刪減所以我們還是會有相關的預算可以來指引"},{"start":30954.6,"end":30970.221,"text":"這個部分還是要麻煩院長那責成各部會我們一起想辦法不過我們現在困難就是說本項預算沒有刪減可是很多業務會被刪減所以在執行上會變成說有預算但是執行過程會發生極大的困難"},{"start":30971.007,"end":30998.504,"text":"所以也想利用這個機會也是因為我看到很多鄉親特別針對自來水的這些相關的意見一直傳達給我們那我們也希望透過這個機會能夠跟在野黨也希望我們的百姓民眾能夠跟在野黨的立法委員好好的跟他們溝通請他們能夠在預算的方面特別是這種跟我們偏鄉相關的部分也是給他們一些壓力讓他們能夠知道說政府的這些預算對於一般民生是有很大的影響的"},{"start":30999.284,"end":31005.296,"text":"那再來就是還是要替我們大埔鄉也就是鎮溫水庫周遭的這些居民再次請命"},{"start":31006.311,"end":31031.665,"text":"因為許多的民眾特別是我們現在高齡化的社會那有一些是用簡易自來水可是需要有人維護但是當這些維護者的這些民眾他的年齡增加的時候其實他們也是希望說能夠盡量可以的話就是用自來水一般的自來水或者來去嚴管所以這一部分我還是希望說院長能夠來去全力協助我們這些比較偏遠山區的民眾這樣好不好"},{"start":31032.193,"end":31040.965,"text":"好的謝謝我們這次在施政報告中有跟委員報告我們不僅要新的治水我們也要有新的供水就讓人家喝到安全無餘的水"},{"start":31041.567,"end":31069.785,"text":"簡而言之就是這一次我還是在強調就是希望說用戶的接管比例跟這個不要用投資效益來去評估而是把最後的一里路把它接上來讓我們的民眾能夠用到安全的水這個還是特別是山區其實也不是我們嘉義縣山區啦鄰近的從台南嘉義彰化台中甚至在更山區的南投他們都是需要這樣子的接管的所以還是這個地方還是要再強烈"},{"start":31070.466,"end":31080.686,"text":"的要求各部會然後特別是自來水公司能夠來去協助那第二個部分跟交通比較有關係是不是請部長麻煩請交通部長必選"},{"start":31084.244,"end":31102.249,"text":"院長我先簡單背景跟我們的這些官員來簡單介紹就是我們的太平我們的梅山纜車太平雲梯其實太平雲梯自2017年以來已經吸引百萬的遊客可是他們面臨幾個問題第一個就是交通的堵車"},{"start":31104.87,"end":31123.995,"text":"那針對梅山纜車還有太平華索兩項計畫先前我有跟交通部觀光署有辦一些相關的意見的說明會那我們有請我們地方的代表村長然後這個鄉鎮的這些代表還有鄰近的這些地方的議員跟一些協會都有來去參與"},{"start":31125.976,"end":31144.67,"text":"那惠中有提到說可不可以在2025年底前開啟可行性的評估讓這個能夠在2030年代有盈餘的可能我想請問院長和部長這兩項計畫交通部是不是有沒有接到相關的資訊那能不能夠跟我們一起努力推動"},{"start":31146.67,"end":31161.668,"text":"報告委員 之前您有會勘過阿里山的管理處也有參與到那這個纜車的部分它的主管機關是地方政府那我們會盡量來協助地方政府至於可行性評估的部分因為這個是阿里山管理處的範圍內那我們會盡量來協助"},{"start":31164.653,"end":31190.052,"text":"好這個部分就是因為我們今天有跟縣府有在溝通一下他是說這個特別是可行性評估的部分這算阿館處的一個職權他是希望說阿館處只要開始之後縣府這邊就會全力一起來推動這個部分是不是可以請院長也來責成這個阿館處來去加速這樣子的動作我們照部長剛剛所答覆的來進行好意思就是說可能會"},{"start":31191.806,"end":31206.692,"text":"有進度嗎 這個進度大概是怎麼樣可不可以請部長我請法管處跟縣政府大家一起來協調這個可行性評估的部分大家要怎麼做大家有個共識我們就來進行那部長是不是可以給他們一個比較具體的時間表讓他們說比方說在今年"},{"start":31207.412,"end":31236.127,"text":"的這個年中我們必須要有一些會議來去確保說有這個好不好再麻煩一下最好是在年中的時候就我們沒有要完成可行性評估我們是開啟可行性評估這樣子好謝謝謝謝部長那接下來就是針對農業的部分那部長可以農業部長必須院長還是再提到我們山區的部分阿里山的部分那"},{"start":31237.128,"end":31264.085,"text":"我們阿乙山地區有一個山葵的種植的發展那過去有很長蠻悠長的歷史在但是過去是在高山我們現在已經慢慢的把它移到中低海拔來去復育山葵可是有一些問題就是說它的這個海拔的環境跟傳統的這個高山環境不同所以農民需要克服的就是高溫跟病蟲害的問題"},{"start":31265.126,"end":31286.28,"text":"那現在我們阿里山當地的這些農民面臨的這個防治困難主要是因為現行法規下可以使用的合法的農藥的品項是有限的喔那所以說農民需要更多適合山葵富裕的這個病種防治害的這個農藥選項我想請問部長我們是不是有計畫來去評估適合台灣環境的這個農藥品項來去開放相關的合法農藥讓"},{"start":31292.525,"end":31294.629,"text":"這些農民能夠有效的防治並沖害"},{"start":31295.952,"end":31322.38,"text":"我想跟委員回應兩點第一點的部分就是山葵本來比較適合涼溫的大概是在海拔1500以上的那現在因為原住民部落特別是阿里山原住民部落他把它往下移那移了以後就會有所謂您剛才所說的熱障礙產生所以換句話說他整個栽培的模式可能必須要做一些調整那我們已經成立了一個輔導團隊去針對阿里山合作社的這些山葵的種植去做有系統的輔導"},{"start":31323.3,"end":31345.769,"text":"那您剛才講的第二點就是病蟲害是不是用藥是不是可以再增加的部分那兩個部分一個部分是現在目前的農藥都是針對可食部位就是它的根莖去做這些相關的農藥殘留的檢測但是還有一部分是山葵葉因為葉也可以做一些料理"},{"start":31346.349,"end":31365.078,"text":"所以合作社那邊也希望說針對這個葉片的料理的部分也能夠開放一些藥是可以用的那這個部分我們也改良廠也正在做一個評估那總而言之我想適當的一個栽培方式配合一些用藥的確可以讓山葵的生長會在阿里山會有另外一個產業發生"},{"start":31366.539,"end":31379.984,"text":"所以部長是不是可以給我們就是因為你們現在是在有相關的研究那會不會有一些進度上面你可以跟我們稍微講一下我想我們已經進展進度都可以"},{"start":31381.012,"end":31405.902,"text":"我想我們整個的包括台南廠還有我們的高雄廠還有我們的調毒所已經成立一個輔導團隊這個輔導團隊已經跟合作社聯繫上了所以我們也會用他的場域去做相關的研究包括袋子的部分因為袋子的部分比種在土裡面比較能夠克服熱障礙那這個部分我想我們會直接跟那個合作社的那個農民來溝通"},{"start":31407.142,"end":31431.314,"text":"好太好了因為現在特別是我們這個山葵這是我們嘉義縣主要現在包含我們的縣長翁縣長也是非常注重這一塊的富裕所以說我們是希望盡快能夠克服這些困難所以再麻煩部長能夠定下進度我們會來一起來努力好謝謝部長因為現在時間有限我想先從外交的部分番茄外交部備詢"},{"start":31446.693,"end":31472.033,"text":"市長好 院長好 委員好其實這幾個月我們台灣的外交跟世界的外交局勢的變化是非常之大特別是新任的政府對於一些外交的政策是有一些變化在應對這些變化的時候我覺得我們作為國會議員還是有責任來跟所有的民眾來說明"},{"start":31473.598,"end":31490.838,"text":"特別是對發生在歐洲的事情我覺得市長也是曾經在駐法那所以對整個局勢是很清楚的其實常常都聽到人家說俄國是風暴那中國是氣候變遷可是如果我們沒有辦法面對風暴那我們怎麼面對氣候變遷"},{"start":31492.358,"end":31507.014,"text":"所以很多民眾開始會把烏克蘭的命運跟台灣的命運來做一些分隔或者是說這個或者是有些比較惡意的就是說今日烏克蘭明日台灣其實不管怎麼說法"},{"start":31507.955,"end":31528.735,"text":"我其實個人都覺得非常遺憾因為其實我們所在乎的不是烏克蘭一個國家而已我們是在乎的是一個整個國際的體系國際的秩序是一個最基本的從這個二次世界大戰以來我們對主權國家不可以無端"},{"start":31530.016,"end":31554.176,"text":"發起戰爭來侵略另外一個主權國家我想這一個立場它不只是價值也符合我們國家的利益然後很多人都會說這個是民主價值在現今的社會上面現今的國際多變的社會上面沒有直接的幫助那我必須告訴大家台灣就是因為在這樣由美國主導的國際體系之下來繁榮了數十年"},{"start":31555.205,"end":31578.934,"text":"由美國主導的這個從對德國的復興計畫開始到對整個歐洲的復興計畫美國對於國際秩序的重視才能夠讓我們走到今天我們也是在這個秩序的受益者這個秩序包含的是國際法包含的是尊重主權國家包含的是尊重像我們台灣、韓國這些中型國家所以"},{"start":31579.758,"end":31593.765,"text":"面對這樣子的局勢我想請教一下那特別是針對川普政府可能會退出國際組織一些其實已經蠻明顯的一些做法請問外交部是不是有一些具體的計畫"},{"start":31595.581,"end":31624.34,"text":"報告委員美國當然對世界衛生組織的貢獻最大他的在財務上的貢獻大概到去年為止占15%但是他不是唯一的那我們如果去細看在世界衛生組織裡面最大的貢獻這些國家其實還有包含歐盟就6%德國5%其實還有比爾蓋茲其實還是會留在裡面比爾蓋茲就10%你把這三個加起來也就超過美國了"},{"start":31625.541,"end":31648.283,"text":"那我剛才提到就是說其實錢裡面還有包含英國跟加拿大都是很大的貢獻國所以外交部目前具體的做法是繼續跟這些在美國離開之後然後在世界衛生組織裡面財務上貢獻多的跟他們加強關係然後希望尋求更多來自他們的支持然後使得我們參與世界衛生組織的動能"},{"start":31649.504,"end":31668.241,"text":"可以繼續維持也就是跟世界衛生組裡面最主要的角色扮演國維持重要的互動那這裡面中國其實他財務上的支持並不是那麼高可能只有1%而已所以我想跟這些最主要的角色扮演者維持動能我想是目前外交部具體的做法"},{"start":31668.841,"end":31693.813,"text":"謝謝次長 我不需要再強調其實許多重要的國際組織包含歐洲的國家都扮演很重要的角色過去次長也是在法國過我們也感受到法國跟這些國家對我們的一些善意還有支持這一些國家一個一個都是海權國家都是重要的影響國我還是希望說我們加強對歐洲的關係這也是很重要一定不好意思時間"},{"start":31698.237,"end":31718.246,"text":"好 謝謝陳冠廷委員的質詢 謝謝卓院長 各部會首長的備詢接下來我們請登記第28號 游浩委員請質詢謝謝院長 那有請行政院長麻煩請卓院長再度備詢"},{"start":31736.61,"end":31748.425,"text":"那其實我們都希望這整個國家的發展跟繁榮經濟的發展都是在一個穩定的一個情況跟氛圍之下可以逐漸進步那我們也覺得像現在來講確實"},{"start":31750.587,"end":31775.46,"text":"還更像是往這個兵兇戰委的這個這個過程在越去緊張那剛才稍早我們王世堅王委員有送院長一個大大的算盤那希望這個算盤他不僅是代表的賴政府還是不是精打細算那我們更是要提醒那許多重要的政策重要的決策那如一算盤不能打錯"},{"start":31776.56,"end":31789.88,"text":"所以這個部分的話我們都希望是看到穩定不要看到不穩定許多的委員其實都是非常擔憂因為是全民都在擔憂延續剛才許多委員所提到的"},{"start":31790.56,"end":31813.486,"text":"那在我們看到目前來講在昨天賴清德總統發表談話之後那其實我相信是全民焦慮全民恐慌那因為這也往這個更加還是不是走向戰爭的這個過程那其實大家都是共同擔憂那我想請教一下院長你也會擔憂會發生戰事嗎"},{"start":31816.325,"end":31840.53,"text":"我更擔憂的是如果我們沒有自我防衛的能力我們將沒有辦法保障自己的安全所以昨天總統的才事之後不見得像委員所說的大家都擔憂而是那些想對台灣要心魔不軌的人會擔憂但要保護台灣的人是得到一個最好的總統的支持跟政策上的支持我想這個是"},{"start":31842.35,"end":31863.812,"text":"造成我們內部更團結的開始只要我們團結我們就不會分裂我們不分裂敵人就不會加倍我坦白說如果院長剛才所講我是覺得這個給全民扣了個大帽子全民擔憂的是是不是發生戰爭是不是孩子上戰場那擔憂的人的話他就是好像聽你所說變成是出賣國家"},{"start":31864.98,"end":31875.317,"text":"但是如果說感到興奮的那這樣子他們是在期待戰爭嗎我覺得這樣子的說法全民要解決是這些對我們有企圖心的人要擔憂"},{"start":31876.127,"end":31900.375,"text":"我相信你所指的不是指全民啦那同樣的我還是要在這裡也跟院長講這個目前來講的局勢確實是更加緊張啊那所以說其實像目前我想要就教一下院長在昨天所發表談話之後啊您覺得將來在不久後有沒有可能會走向戒嚴"},{"start":31902.032,"end":31918.568,"text":"像什麼戒嚴我跟你說不可能台灣成為一個戒嚴的時代台灣經過全世界最長最長的戒嚴我們已經走過了那個時代在台灣民主高度發展的今天我們有健全的國會我們有健全的軍隊我們有健全的社會"},{"start":31919.208,"end":31933.901,"text":"我們有高水準的民主素養的人民當然我們內部有一些問題但這個問題我們可以用民主的方式來解決民主造成的問題但戒嚴應該不是總統手上的權力他會去使用的絕對不是"},{"start":31934.201,"end":31957.647,"text":"好那記得你說的內容因為我們也不希望沒有在這個民意上的戒嚴但是在很多的政策與措施走向了實際上往戒嚴邁進那院長那我想要接著請教在目前這個發表談話之後那這個等同於是兩岸的緊張情勢絕對是更加升溫"},{"start":31958.587,"end":31966.492,"text":"那在ECFA的部分目前有沒有認為將來會有因此停止的可能性"},{"start":31967.028,"end":31994.49,"text":"我們一直在建立台灣自主的經濟安全只要我們夠我們自己經濟安全我們從各方面做有序而且是必要的調整那台灣會往世界走台灣會轉向轉向海洋轉向世界那台灣會把我們的生產我們的市場都放到世界各地去我們就不會受到某一個國家單獨對台灣太多台灣對他的依賴性所以我們正在往這個方向走也希望得到全民的支持"},{"start":31995.202,"end":32014.852,"text":"我相信剛才你所講,台灣不可能是獨立在世界體系一環、經濟體系一環的任何一個環節,當然也不可能說在這個所謂的全球,我相信這是一個整體,當然不是說對於任何一個地方、任何一個城市也好、國家也好都不能夠過度依賴,"},{"start":32015.612,"end":32043.939,"text":"但是你覺得像目前的一個情況有沒有可能未來ECFA是有可能因此而停止甚至有沒有做好各種的因應或衝擊的準備當我們面對一個不是法治的社會不是民主的國家它要對我們用任何的方式不是我們在這裡能夠預料得到的但我們是希望兩岸之間能夠健康有序的交流能夠尊嚴對等的交流凡是用談判"},{"start":32044.966,"end":32059.747,"text":"用對話來代替現在這種互相不了解這個才是好的比方說那你說得好啊那我覺得其實經濟部長也可以起來那這個你剛才說以這個談判或是一個交流才說一個健康的一個方式來進行"},{"start":32060.928,"end":32082.168,"text":"那我想請教目前來講針對經貿議題在兩岸有沒有做任何形式的交流尤其是在去年賴總統賴內閣上任之後有沒有做各種形式的交流或是談判我們在很多的方式經濟部等一下陸委會我們都可以談一下"},{"start":32083.759,"end":32105.515,"text":"報告委員 我想我們在上任以來我們碰到的是中國對ECFA的部分取消我們當然要提早因應 因為它的不確定性太高所以我們希望能夠協助沒有ECFA的措施之後的業者"},{"start":32106.795,"end":32134.245,"text":"能夠轉移市場到除了這個中國以外的市場這第一個第二個我們協助他能夠提升避開這個中國的大量的這個製造因為中國用補貼的這個方式造成我們到我們的台商到中國去製造的時候面臨到更大的這個傷害所以我們要幫助在台灣生產的這些廠商過去他銷給中國的我們都完全來輔導他們"},{"start":32135.706,"end":32153.611,"text":"能夠到這個中國以外的市場來進行他們這個生意的這個持續下去好那我就直接就教部長那在目前來講針對EXPA的這種情況那有沒有做任何的一個衝擊影響評估相關的報告"},{"start":32155.564,"end":32179.42,"text":"未來假如因此取消的時候您的意思是說還沒有取消的部分還是說已經取消的部分假如像現在昨天之後情勢更加升溫之後您能做出任何的衝擊甚至停止之後的對我們整個各行各業百工百業的一個衝擊的影響評估報告對百工百業我想這個"},{"start":32181.542,"end":32193.836,"text":"班的影響評估當然是有的那我直接跟部長就直接提這個聽起來因為像現在從昨天到今天確實更加衝突性我相信陛下主委你也同意吧更加緊張"},{"start":32196.095,"end":32221.442,"text":"跟委員報告當然中國大陸一直對我們經濟脅迫這也是事實不過我們相關部會都做好的各種的準備我們在國安的思考一定是做最壞的打算好 我知道任何的一個政府包括馬政府此起一定是做最壞的打算那一定是做最充足的準備一定是盡力來去溝通啦我相信在座三位一定都認同那我要直接回答就是說"},{"start":32222.102,"end":32242.529,"text":"就是像剛才所提到的這個答案並沒有明確的回覆我到底有沒有做好假如像昨天之後到現在未來那ECFA如果因此而到時候停止之後那影響百工百業的衝擊報告目前來講經濟部是不是有做那如果有做的話是不是可以公開的也讓社會各界百工百業各種產業再來做因應"},{"start":32247.915,"end":32265.671,"text":"我們在去年的時候當ECFA取消的部分我們就已經有公告來協助這些受ECFA影響的廠商如何協助他們來轉移市場這個是我們在去年就已經開始做了"},{"start":32266.616,"end":32291.032,"text":"好那沒關係那我這樣子聽起來大致上就是說如果說要衝擊的廠商的話當然一定是要協助啦那其實在任何的一個全球的一個就是分工之下啦產業鏈的這種互動之下其實本來就是每一個市場都應該是要去做溝通啦還能夠讓我們的這個企業界產業界都能夠去做任何形式的一個評估那我相信這個絕對會是比較理想正確"},{"start":32291.812,"end":32315.523,"text":"那所以現在聽起來的話,是沒有做相關,如果因為像昨天發表台灣之後,ECFA未來如果因此而喊停的時候,整體的一個評估報告,所以說許多的產業受到影響的這些項目來講,他們並沒有辦法因此來提早做運營。那在這裡是本席能夠請經濟部,能夠做相關的評估報告、衝擊報告之後,甚至能夠在公開讓社會各界提早做運營。"},{"start":32317.67,"end":32341.517,"text":"剛剛部長已經說過了我們之前我們有做了相關的因應那現在我們做全球的佈局那我們要提醒中國的經濟下行他現在的經濟狀況是極端的不好他做任何的變動如果對他的經濟產生更劇烈的變化而往下更走的話也不是他樂意看到的當然也不是全世界都能看到所以不要做不需要做這樣的我們有我們自己"},{"start":32343.078,"end":32354.268,"text":"所以說 像剛才所提到的話 甚至假如未來來講 因為未來情勢更加緊張的時候 全部面的停止的時候目前來講 連平步高沒有做 但是也不宜做嗎"},{"start":32355.185,"end":32379.931,"text":"我們保障自己的安全怎麼會是情勢越加緊張不是啊 那要輔導轉型輔導跟其他的國家來去做連結相關的一個輔導措施甚至補貼措施過去馬英文時期的時候其實都有做相關的評估報告跟研究現在國內好幾位像委員這樣身強體壯的現役軍人都被對方所吸收 被對方所利用等一下 你這句話我要反駁我另外被吸收喔我不是說你 我說現役軍人"},{"start":32380.919,"end":32400.068,"text":"他是很強壯的現役軍人都被對方所吸收對對方所利用我們當然要有一個防制的精神如果能夠做有效的防制我們是加強自己的能力我要跟院長講就是說今天來講各個國家在任何一個地方他們在做這種情報工作我想實在話本席絕對是站在國家安全的立場"},{"start":32401.068,"end":32428.551,"text":"這個覺得大家全民的都是站在國家安全立場如果個人因為他被吸收或是有跟任何國家這樣子有任何成為間諜的一個情況的話當然是絕不容忍但是剛才是回頭來講那這個一個法案未來來講因為賴清德總統昨天的發表通關之後後面的情勢更加緊張評估報告如果是沒有做衝擊報告沒有做還是有請經濟部會來做的之後來做因應這樣子是否可以我們昨天在開會的時候就已經要求各部會"},{"start":32429.568,"end":32455.706,"text":"要把總統的才智要專案的執行要定期的考核而且限期的完成必要修法就修法該立法就立法該訂定行動計畫就訂定行動計畫這個已經在處理當中了昨天那一個資料我看了十次了所以說經濟部包括在這個經濟重啟確實沒有相關的一個因應當然這個評估包括也不是在一個簡短的談話中可以去提到的所以說請這個部長這邊做相關的評估"},{"start":32458.628,"end":32469.903,"text":"還讓社會大眾提早去做了解這是否可行就經濟的部分我想我們經濟部已經在內部作業我們也根據各個署各個處"},{"start":32474.005,"end":32496.493,"text":"那麼請他們提出來對我們在中國的這些台商會產生什麼影響然後在台灣的業者他們如果是輸出到中國的部分那可能會碰到什麼樣的問題我們都給予分析然後再來輔導我們台灣的廠商在未來如何因應這樣的一個"},{"start":32498.133,"end":32514.149,"text":"可能產生了變異好 沒關係那大致上就是這一個整個過程中對於兩岸經貿剛才院長也有提到也希望能夠務實的來去做互動交流那甚至能夠保護台山"},{"start":32514.79,"end":32528.449,"text":"那我想直接請教在過去到今年520到現在有針對兩岸的議題產業的議題包括AFA相關項目的議題有做過任何一次經貿上面的談判或是聯繫嗎跟對方的談判呢"},{"start":32531.872,"end":32551.055,"text":"我想主動權都不是在我們一方啦他跟我們的接觸我們請陸委會就知道我們光是希望兩小兩會就光光談判對方就是遲遲不願意他就是不願意用談判的方式他不願意把我們放在一個對等尊嚴的方式不願意跟我們做一個健康有序的接觸"},{"start":32551.936,"end":32572.151,"text":"這是對方的問題那個我就不跟你為難啦我直接直接講就是說像陸委會跟其實兩岸之間他從政績不應該是斷掉的也不應該是他才發現的我們傳很多東西他從來就沒有告訴我們我同時之間那包含是說都一定應該有一個正常的互動啦那我坦白講"},{"start":32573.452,"end":32586.541,"text":"這個部分過去馬英九執政了8年那有辦法在不管是美國或包括中國大陸彼此之間讓我們許多的產業跟台商還能有一些經濟方面的一個成長"},{"start":32587.403,"end":32609.39,"text":"那今天全球布局 不管是進出或來講不能過度依賴但是他能夠在全球的市場下在台灣能夠許多產業扮演角色這是重要的那我直接接著就就好了那軍事審判法的部分那我們顧立雄 顧部長那這個部分算不算複批部長主委謝謝"},{"start":32614.656,"end":32639.325,"text":"部長早上已經有答過這是一個重新的開機截然不同的制度老闆部長是那這樣子軍事審判法重新再起那你覺得這個部分跟你過去所發表的言論跟價值與立場有沒有著實經過的感覺我今天早上已經跟王委員做過說明"},{"start":32640.663,"end":32658.085,"text":"我的立場沒有 我的見解都沒有任何的改變就是說我認為過去的軍事審判有違反憲法的意志那也沒有辦法獲得人民的信賴所以我現在會盡個人最大的努力來確保我們重新打造的軍事審判"},{"start":32658.917,"end":32680.38,"text":"是會跟過去的制度是不一樣的如果說你認為當初的這個沒有辦法來做客觀的審判的情況之下那當初在提出這個修正案以及報告案在倡導的這個廢除的部分那為什麼當初你不用倡導來去做修正?"},{"start":32681.936,"end":32698.37,"text":"我想就是當我已經講了就是當時的這個軍事審判按照道好官的憲法的意旨比如說軍法官他就認為他沒有符合身份保障所以他不是一個真正的法官所以我們在這個部分就要確保這個"},{"start":32699.949,"end":32717.709,"text":"以後的這個軍事審判是一個這個軍法官是獲得有一個獨立性獲得身份保障所以我會說我們要定軍法官人事條例我們要定軍事法院組織法那為什麼當初你在提倡這個議題的時候不是用這個角度"},{"start":32718.464,"end":32735.213,"text":"我沒有表示說我沒有用這個角度我一直在主張軍事審判法相關的違憲的地方所以我們指出這些違憲的地方如果沒有辦法補這些破洞的話那就這一個部分我們認為"},{"start":32736.86,"end":32758.465,"text":"就應該要回到這個民事的審判來所以說當初你認為應該回到民事的審判那你當了部長之後立法會認為又要再回覆嗎但是我跟委員做一個說明你讓我有機會稍微說明一下但是軍事審判法當時的第一條它仍然為止暫時要進行軍事審判"},{"start":32759.685,"end":32781.439,"text":"所以在暫時仍然維持軍事審判的一個情況之下11年來平時如果沒有重新打造一個新的軍事審判制度暫時是不可能會憑空來成為所以你這個是認為暫時做運營嗎我們國防部本來就是要為平戰轉換做準備我們國防部所有的我們所有國防部為了平戰轉換在做準備啊對"},{"start":32787.663,"end":32807.365,"text":"那就是在去年跟過去前八年的時候沒有提出那所以說在過去的時候沒有提出而在賴總統昨天的這個發表講話之後就提出那這個部分那過去的九年的期間那到底這個軍事審判法被怎麼定義"},{"start":32808.645,"end":32833.143,"text":"就我理解我們過去的法律師一直以來都在研究就是說平時這個審判的制度軍事審判的制度要如何能夠維繫他的能量的運作所以過去的九年的成果是因為你也擔任過許多重要的職務所以過去的九年的話其實完全都沒有對這個方面提出要求現在就是因應戰死"},{"start":32834.795,"end":32851.745,"text":"我想我們國防部在做這個相關的平戰轉換做所有的戰備任務都是在為平戰轉換做準備我們的國防部存在的價值就是隨時做好這個備戰的準備我們的戰訓本部我們相關的訓練我們相關裝備的獲得也是都是如此那麼包括這個"},{"start":32860.617,"end":32875.437,"text":"軍事審判這個課題也是如此所以我認為如果說新的軍事審判他能夠達到一個公平審判的原則跟正當法律程序的原則那麼這樣子重新開機的一個軍事審判"},{"start":32875.937,"end":32898.062,"text":"他就可以來就現役軍人犯執運人職務喪失罪這個部分來進行我想這一個部分應該是跟我的過去的見解沒有任何一個不一致的地方今天對於這個軍事懲罰法這個當然未來我們也是會看你們提出的版本的內容"},{"start":32899.142,"end":32907.8,"text":"但是我都想你剛才所提到的如果說你六十二處理上軍事審判的過程中到底是否公正我坦白講這個是人的問題"},{"start":32908.786,"end":32930.966,"text":"那當然說可以用條文或是規定來去把這個降到最低可是同樣的你可能還是要記得目前來講全國民眾對於許多的司法介入還甚至許多的相關的這種的外力的介入那影響到各種的判決不管在司法上其實人民對於整體司法改革還是有很大的一個不信任"},{"start":32931.627,"end":32958.531,"text":"所以說今天來講在提出軍事審判法的一個調整的時候是不是真的能夠解決這個問題那同時過去九年為什麼不提那我在當初在爭議這個事情的時候為什麼不提而是現在提那因為暫時是需要那沒關係這個就如你所說那我想要接著請教一下那外交部長林佳榮林部長那他也在今天的出席名單那部長有在嗎其實是次長代理"},{"start":32959.469,"end":32973.954,"text":"市長林鄭月娥部長是有在名單上面時間暫停特別跟郵委員報告一下外交部長今天要接待外賓有遞請加單有吳次長次長有在列席您看要不要"},{"start":32975.422,"end":32998.644,"text":"好,謝謝委員好,那沒關係,那我們直接看秀的這個提案大家直接有提到林佳龍委員,現在的部長過去也有提出軍事審判法第一條的修正那那個都是在黃中秋事件那時候所提出的那部長如果有在的話,大家有想請教一下部長他的看法以及他現在對於這個案子的時候,他是持什麼樣的一個角度那就不用請次長回答,謝謝"},{"start":33000.066,"end":33013.603,"text":"OK 那接著就不用請市長回答啦這是曾哲齡教育部長本人他所提案來詢問的部分那我們直接來再問一些接著民生大家非常關心的這個五一勞動節"},{"start":33015.225,"end":33030.992,"text":"那是不是能夠放假這個其實過去能夠大家一直在討論院長一定也有評估過那市長請那想請教那個洪森漢部長要不要上來那想請教一下那這個議題那大家其實許多的"},{"start":33031.832,"end":33055.387,"text":"五一勞動節勞工放假但是許多的公務人員或者是報告交易人員他們沒有放假所以就會變成帶小孩就會有出現這個問題那大家都一直在討論也一直在期待五一勞動節能放假那今天院長要不要跟大家宣布一下是不是今年的五一勞動節大家可以放假也讓祝福大家這些許多的各行各業的家長依照現在紀念日"},{"start":33056.067,"end":33082.479,"text":"及節日施行辦法當初在決定的時候在審定的時候有一個附帶決議他就說國定的假日加起來要一百一十五到一百一十六天那我們現在是達到這個上限當然時空是不一樣的社會環境會不同我本來就有預期你會這麼回覆啊時空會不同條件會不同如果社會大家認為有一天的放假會讓社會等大家在效率等等會提高"},{"start":33083.399,"end":33111.378,"text":"而且變動會最少我們會願意聽聽大家的意見這個已經討論了相當多年了因為這個討論相當多年但是我們總是期待今年能夠有一個不一樣的結果因為這個假日是勞工放本來就是要感謝勞工人事長說明一下我知道那我想知道的答案就是今年可不可以放所以說那個相關的建議其實院長都知道所以我是想要直接就教院長今年的五一勞動節會不會做一個放假的宣示"},{"start":33111.598,"end":33123.737,"text":"我們公布的行事例裡面是沒有放假那明年的話會不會往這個方向放我們明年的話會不會宣示希望往五一勞動節的方向能夠放假的部分來努力"},{"start":33124.997,"end":33144.621,"text":"這個我們想包括人事長因為有院長的宣示會比較有效勞動部或人事行政總署的部分他們還是沒有辦法代表行政院的態度我們可以做幕僚分析啦事實上以勞動節來講的話現在是勞工放假那一天他們也可以利用那個"},{"start":33145.302,"end":33174.949,"text":"那其實就最主要是家長他們其實還是會遇到小孩子的問題那需要帶所以說有沒有可能能夠往五一勞動節作為放假日的方向來努力請部長說明一下吳聰說明一下現在五一勞動節目前適用勞基法的勞工有清楚勞工畢竟出身的對所以我說就勞工本身的勞務部所管的勞務部本身現在是有放假的部長你還是沒有辦法回答五一勞動節到底有沒有可能來做放假日"},{"start":33180.85,"end":33204.055,"text":"在實施週休二日之後其實我們對整個放假的制度已經在一個制度化裡面去運行了也運行這麼多年所以並沒有所謂要再回復到那個時代的幾天放假的問題但是我們達到一百一十五、一百一十六這當然可以討論社會只要認為變動最小、成本最小而且符合全國一致性今年跟明年還是沒有答案"},{"start":33204.875,"end":33223.323,"text":"我們可以討論,如果他變動小、成本小、全國一致性大家都能夠有共識,我們希望能夠討論大家的期待當然是希望放假但沒關係啦,我們直接來接個就教啦我們跟委員多多的請教一下來接個就教,就是預算中心的報告指出台電公司預計114年度發電燃料費加113年度減少351.46億,減幅7.96"},{"start":33230.146,"end":33248.856,"text":"那目前來講台電給出的預算顯示發電燃料成本是下降的那我想直接就叫院長在目前來講我們知道很多能源配比的問題那當然部長也來陪同那今年有沒有可能不要調漲電價"},{"start":33250.077,"end":33266.184,"text":"好台電在二五戰爭之後之前在那個時候人費用漲價很多但現在有稍微平緩但是我們現在考慮他的財政的結構是因為他過去幾年用了很多的補貼的需求所以他付出了很多對其他事業的這個補貼沒有可能能夠不要調漲"},{"start":33273.728,"end":33289.178,"text":"過去也補了兩千億也補了五百億那在今年那麼多產業行業受到影響今年有沒有可能能夠基於穩定物價照顧民生而今年不要調漲或者是不往調漲的方向邁進"},{"start":33292.029,"end":33310.604,"text":"報告委員我們過去因為戰爭或者材料調漲我們大概吸收了六千億事實上過去的撥補並沒有那麼高所以他現在還存有這些負債部長我直接跟您請教這些我其實都理解但是"},{"start":33311.044,"end":33340.331,"text":"我們會來努力 我們會來努力但是 調價與否這個是由電價 電價省委員他們來決定的所以我們會努力我們台電自己會努力部長我知道你也努力啦那我直接提一下 上次其實你也提到一句這個部分院長也是很重要的因素我就不把原話再翻一次那希望院長能夠往穩定物價不調漲的方式來努力穩定物價 反映成本"},{"start":33340.971,"end":33367.357,"text":"還有這個節約能源將來必須使用者付費這個都是原則但是這個原則只會交到電價審議委員會去做審議啊不是我們在這裡決定好啦 沒關係所以上次有提到部長你院長你幫你演很重要的角色那原話我不說好不好那我直接再接著就叫這個醫護人員相關這個護理人員啊那目前來講在我們看到"},{"start":33368.197,"end":33381.746,"text":"白班津貼研擬一年那目前的進展還有社會各界也都在期待那想就教一下這個白班津貼未來的一個發布跟性質補貼那是不是有一個宣示或是有一個回應"},{"start":33391.651,"end":33418.264,"text":"法務委員我們護理人員的切口我們有推動十二項策略從他的教考信用增加的那個直接回津貼的部分就可以了直接回相關護理人員津貼的部分未來的方向為何就好津貼的部分我們當然是除了創造更好的工作環境以外在待遇方面我們特別很清楚的來增加"},{"start":33419.57,"end":33425.337,"text":"那個護理會特別是急重症跟一般急症病房我們最近昨天才通過醫院"},{"start":33427.271,"end":33450.001,"text":"醫院的一個總額的協商我們將會增加的大概42億來增加護理費我相信這個對於護理的待遇會增加很多當然可以那最主要是護理也非常的辛苦所以說希望說在中央政府部分能夠重視他們非常辛苦的一個內容也穩定他們這個職場場域他們能夠盡可能能夠減少流動"},{"start":33453.562,"end":33472.744,"text":"那同時再補充之前急診護理就是醫務超載那轉院困難那發生了許多悲劇那希望未來在部內這邊也能夠持續針對目前來講急診室病房病床數不足的一個問題還來去做一個改善有沒有一個簡短的回應"},{"start":33474.467,"end":33492.006,"text":"除了改善各個醫事人員的工作環境增加應有急重症的醫事人員的津貼以外我們在針對病人方面特別是在急診跟病床急診病床的一個調配我們當然也請院方能夠做靈活的調配"},{"start":33493.418,"end":33517.248,"text":"那部長我是希望說在這個許多患者他們因為病床患者的家屬是心急如焚那這個問題是一定要特別的重視我們會全力以赴來解決這個問題那最後就是剛才院長有提到團結那我就想這個團結在過去的一年到今年我們是看到的是許多的撕裂"},{"start":33518.869,"end":33542.077,"text":"如果說在許多的重大議題那在行政院法扮演一個重要角色應該是要能夠積極主動的來讓朝野之間能夠做調和我相信重新思考應該能夠有比較好的結果啦那不然就不會發生這個大惡霸那我們都要堅定的不要讓貧窮跟戰爭留給下一代我們需要是和平發展才是真正團結謝謝"},{"start":33543.517,"end":33568.306,"text":"謝謝委員謝謝游浩委員的發言謝謝卓院長、各部會首長的備詢謝謝報言會我們本日排定的質詢委員均已質詢完畢我們非常感謝卓院長、政府院長各位閣員今天列席來答詢3月18號星期二上午9點我們繼續開會進行施政方針及施政報告之質詢我們先來休息"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}