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江副院長 卓院長 各位先進有請卓院長請卓院長備選賴文豪院長你早我看你今天有點火氣不過我先講一下我沒有請你回答不要回答好不好"},{"start":41.62,"end":60.317,"text":"讓我話講完你再回答那麼今天看到你面對媒體問你說王世堅點名 王委員點名說你來選台北市長你用俏皮的說是你選一次回答我是覺得你被王世堅吃豆腐王世堅另外一句話講什麼95%講完連任"},{"start":64.813,"end":86.156,"text":"他的吟下詩意就是他推薦鄭麗君推薦左龍泰當炮灰你當然不要當炮灰啊我這樣講法對吧要問王委員本身對不對你不要問我啊我怎麼知道你同意不同意就是王委員這種講法就是吃你豆腐啊"},{"start":87.688,"end":99.521,"text":"他都說95%一定是蔣萬安當選連任王委員的意思王委員的意思要問他要問我的話第一個我不會是炮灰我也不會是豆腐"},{"start":100.64,"end":123.145,"text":"被吃豆腐啊 我都替你難過一個院長被吃豆腐他跟你說 家族5%一定是蔣安安當選我不要選 他不要當炮灰他講其他理由 推薦一個叫鄭麗君或者朱龍泰好啦 你不好回答就不要回答了但是 我告訴你你被吃豆腐 因為你要當炮灰然後我們來看"},{"start":124.665,"end":146.633,"text":"現在來講 大家很關心的 總預算還沒有勿違啊你一直講說你不要當違憲的院長 言猶在耳當初我們在推說普發現金一萬你也說違憲 後來你也發了啊你也發了啊 我們來看喔我們經過法律的調整我沒有請你回答 不要回答"},{"start":148.069,"end":159.309,"text":"我們你依法不依法編列三讀通過的軍人加薪給志願役加薪我們這麼多武器我們讓你希望我們的"},{"start":160.256,"end":180.405,"text":"支援你的人越來越多而且現在的一個邊縣比八成左右而且有1.2萬的人他寧願被罰他都不要當兵啦 灰暗啦 怕死啦對不對 結果警消退休預算也通過了 你也不要影響是什麼 現在卡住囉"},{"start":181.987,"end":201.085,"text":"總預算卡住了卡住了我們要呼籲嘛那我們跟美國不一樣美國今天的國會美國的政府關門了關門40天他解套了因為他們沒有像台灣這麼厲害我們的憲法我們這裡法律很厲害"},{"start":202.463,"end":230.105,"text":"新的預算沒有通過 或預算沒有通過舊的可以用好了 但新的不可以用哪幾個不會增加經濟部今天增加383億國花費只有增加0.6億農業部增加49億國防部增加938但是如果加上特別預算國防部增加的是3000億之多你講過一句話"},{"start":231.707,"end":258.2,"text":"這句我覺得是對的你說我要找韓院長找立法院韓院長來溝通一下是不是解決一個看一個怎麼樣有一個solution請問你到現在為止有找韓院長嗎我跟韓院長在重要的時刻我們都有溝通如果針對委員所提的這件事情我認為我在總諮詢結束的前後應該跟韓院長有正式的一個談話大概什麼時候"},{"start":259.813,"end":284.027,"text":"總諮詢結束的前後下禮拜就結束了對啊 那也要看韓院長的時間啊儘快齁 奇怪 照理講是你們要擠啊我們替你擠啊 奇怪咧如果韓院長同意啊如果韓院長同意 我也想請委員一起來參加我跟你講啊 院長啊你要逼我們擠啊 現在怎麼說我們在擠呢我們覺得不忍這個國家整個停擺美國就停擺了40天"},{"start":287.453,"end":299.027,"text":"10%以上的航班整個都是霧點他的圖書館沒有人管這個公園沒有人管很慘但我們因為我們的法律訂的比較好"},{"start":300.089,"end":327.031,"text":"舊的預算可以用新的沒問題所以以前也有發生過啊到去年的4月5月重預算才通過這不是不好啦我希望院長我們一起來努力好不好大家努力啦你要做一個守規矩的院長啦你不要動不動講違憲違憲不違憲不是你的權利也不是你講的算因為我在講你剛回答了前面的委員說這個違憲我不要當違憲院長"},{"start":337.139,"end":351.791,"text":"後來經過我們修正啊經過行政院修正之後那是依照行政院的版本再發的我們請那個部長一起來哪一位部長經濟部長美國關稅的下一步"},{"start":360.044,"end":387.336,"text":"總統說台美談判會有好的進展那是10月22號快一個月囉昨天我到委員會問了我們公務部長哇他這個很會打太激情的樣子打太激情了我說什麼時候可以搞定台美關稅不要20加N不要疊加什麼時候可以搞定公務員長說快了快了我先問左院長什麼時候可以搞定左院長"},{"start":388.072,"end":406.104,"text":"我們都有 什麼時候可以搞定我們雖然都沒有到美國我們都有實際參與整個作業我們認為現在已經到了最後的階段因為全世界也剩下台灣這句話一個月以前就說過了我跟你講美國政府停擺你也知道的你也知道美國政府停擺所以他很多事情也停下來了"},{"start":406.784,"end":426.131,"text":"那個高層沒有停擺啦齁 你不要隨便亂講你看喔 我們是最早跟美國談的四個國家之一齁 我唱咧齁 台灣你看喔 我讚咧全市民 到現在咕咕咕啊 人家都定了韓國定了 日本定了 台灣沒有定了"},{"start":427.212,"end":438.864,"text":"有一個說法是說那川習會之後才定那APEC他們見面呢也沒有定難道要等到明年4月才定喔他們明年4月才會見面呢難道是這樣子嗎"},{"start":439.847,"end":455.558,"text":"台美雙方都希望能夠盡快的把盡快是什麼時候?年底可以嗎?這個不是我方一方的意願我說我算個時間這個結果是什麼?像剛剛委員說我跟海運長見面我可以說我有個期待的時間但跟美方不能說我方算個時間你可以啦這個是買方市場賣方市場"},{"start":458.9,"end":483.888,"text":"我們會努力盡快 我跟委員承諾 努力盡快 而且最近應該會有一些進展我們來談最近 最近是什麼 什麼叫最近英文叫Listening 你知道最近你告訴我什麼時候叫最近 我們來看喔我們來看 你們要談的結果是什麼傳統產業 比如說工具機 將近5%Plus 20等於25 很辛苦"},{"start":485.469,"end":488.051,"text":"郭志輝部長有說除了關稅以外對傳統產業最重要是匯率"},{"start":512.708,"end":534.736,"text":"他心目中希望能夠三十一業者我去打聽了希望三十四部長你要不要講一下你心目中要不要跟郭志輝一樣三十一雖然那個是央行的職者職權但是你總是有一個主觀的期待吧替我們中小企業替我們的傳統產業講講話他們真的很辛苦"},{"start":536.276,"end":551.75,"text":"匯率你心目中有沒有一個政府官員不適合談匯率怎麼不適合 郭部長就在這裡講31啊我們只能講說匯率要保持穩定不要波動太大 短期間不要波動太大"},{"start":552.25,"end":576.135,"text":"因為傳統產業講說要34%比較好阿以後你講32% 他講31%現在多少你知道嗎 現在多少現在費率也差不多算穩定現在多少你知道嗎30塊8 30塊9吧 左右30點多 將近31%啦穩定 長期穩定就好你講31%是很安全啦 你怎麼不敢講呢我這整個是市場在決定的喔 第二個 第二個現在"},{"start":579.256,"end":600.204,"text":"美國最高法院審理川普的關稅案川普可能輸喔你現在看到不管這個大法官是來自於藍的紅的就是民主黨或者共和黨他們基本上都認為川普違憲他要賠20兆美金請問部長"},{"start":602.967,"end":630.246,"text":"或者院長有沒有想過我們廠商這段時間從8月開始20加N 20加N一直課我們原來大概只有2%幾%而已有的5%我們能不能回到原來當然這個錢不是全部全部進口商付但是我們也付一部分出口商付一部分比如說要課20塊進口商10塊出口商10塊"},{"start":634.636,"end":639.928,"text":"我們能不能去跟他要貨啦 可不可以公民報的兩件事第一個這個對等關稅是美國對全世界普遍性的不是單對我國"},{"start":641.363,"end":670.51,"text":"所以我們要脫離這樣神奇的秩序目前來看當然是困難的再來你要回到過去那種個位數的關稅現在各國看起來也沒有這樣的情況有 我要告訴你如果川普被判違憲三個結果第一個結果不溯及計畫可能就拿走了就拿走了這個川普想要的是這樣拿走拿走第二個部分溯及計畫過去課的多少 拿一部分回來第三個全部溯及"},{"start":672.154,"end":687.256,"text":"這三個都可能發生 三個都可能發生那我現在就問你 你們做了沙盤推特別是經濟部長我看你這一副 我都不知道啊沒有 報告委員 事實上以川普政府來講的話 雖然他"},{"start":688.918,"end":717.077,"text":"我們不知道他們大法官會怎麼判但是他還有其他的工具包括232他很多的項目已經搬到232去了他還有301所以我們還是要做好準備我們提升我們的競爭力比較重要你自動要講啊你故意給我歐陵稅都我問你說我們已經被他課的關稅能不能把要點回來替廠商要點回來幫廠商一點忙你說沒有回答問題啊沒有 他們最高法院都還沒有判啊"},{"start":718.057,"end":745.391,"text":"你準備好沒有 你有沒有想過你有沒有想過我們政府可以幫忙要你回來假如可以給人家的話不是 他們最高法院判的話如果要緩緩就會緩緩啊他不見得都還給出口商我們出口商不一定拿得到他是還給美國的進口公司知道吧 比如說比如說就是Amazon"},{"start":747.817,"end":753.042,"text":"或者是Costco或者是什么Walmart它是还给Walmart"},{"start":754.489,"end":781.131,"text":"因為沃瑪進來的時候我們已經付一部分他也付一部分所以全部他拿走我們要不要這個沃瑪幫助廠商把他拿一點回來我是問你這個如果是這樣的話我們當然會協助廠商爭取他的權益請問你請問我就在院長面前了齁可不可以責成經濟部啊這個事情先做一個事先的規劃一下如果川普"},{"start":782.276,"end":790.948,"text":"足了他們要緩緩關稅部分也好全部也好我們經濟部怎麼樣引領可以嗎一個禮拜一個計畫提出來可以嗎可不可以"},{"start":794.793,"end":820.111,"text":"我們現在第一個掌握是說原來多少在對等關稅的他已經移到232那個部分將來如果世襲有一個判決的結果會不會影響這部分如果川普關稅他輸了我們的因應報告可以吧兩個部分一個就是原來在對等關稅他已經要移到232將來這個判決之後有結果出來會不會連232這個也會影響這是一個部分你講的可不可以告訴我們部長"},{"start":820.971,"end":846.602,"text":"第一個部分就是部長說的第一個部分就是部長說的那在這裡面他依照判決的結果我方一定要爭取我們在上面行為上有利的條件再簡單一點啦兩個禮拜以內提出這樣的報告或者你上網讓外界看得到可以嗎報告委員可以嗎可以嗎我問你可以嗎我是覺得啦在他們美國大法就是最高法院還沒有判決之前我們出這樣的報告"},{"start":847.586,"end":871.82,"text":"是不是會影響到...好 那判決之後兩個禮拜以內 提出報告可以嗎可以可以 上網 判決以後兩個禮拜內上網好 我們來看 今天媒體有寫到中油弊案說中油的高層說錢太多你們盡量的福報我們農業部長一起上來好不好農業部長一起上來可以嗎請 陳部長"},{"start":873.674,"end":901.911,"text":"總有的你們要不要一起查一下立案去查一下可以嗎他說錢太多事實上113年的時候就是之前已經有查了有沒有這回事有人提到政風已經查過一次了沒有這回事但是現在有新的事證我們會再查一次我最後請農業部長講一下獨彈的"},{"start":903.302,"end":929.236,"text":"我們現在那個源頭在哪裡 現在找不到啊源頭在哪裡 告訴我們 趕快 20幾秒我跟委員說明 現在初步看起來是一個單一的個案因為分埔泥本身是殺蟲劑那基本上它不能用在機制上面但是可能是旁邊因為有農田那我們現在正在瞭解然後現在總共有4批的這些雞蛋那這些雞蛋全部下架除了彰化以外 其他地方可能也有"},{"start":930.475,"end":934.918,"text":"除了藏外以外 其他地方也有 有沒有可能都沒有 其他因為我們例行好 謝謝賴委員 謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":407,"blocks":[["賴委員士葆：（10時3分）謝謝主席江副院長、卓院長、各位先進，有請卓院長。"],["主席：請卓院長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：賴委員好。"],["賴委員士葆：院長早。我看你今天有點火氣，不過我要先講一下，如果我沒有請你回答，你就不要回答好不好？讓我把話講完以後你再回答。今天媒體問你王世堅委員點名你來選臺北市長這件事，你俏皮的回答每4年都會去選一次，我覺得你被王世堅吃豆腐。王世堅講的另外一句話是什麼？就是95%會是蔣萬安連任，他的言下之意就是他推薦鄭麗君、推薦卓榮泰來當炮灰，你當然不要當炮灰啊！我這樣的講法對吧？"],["卓院長榮泰：這要問王委員，因為是他本身的意見，你不要問我，我怎麼知道？"],["賴委員士葆：我說就是要讓你當炮灰，你同意我講的嘛！對不對？你同不同意？就是王委員的這種講法是吃你豆腐啦！對不對？他都說95%一定是蔣萬安當選連任啊！所以他點名你就是當炮灰啊！"],["卓院長榮泰：王委員的意思要問他，如果要問我的話，第一個，我不會是炮灰，我也不會是豆腐。"],["賴委員士葆：你被吃豆腐啊！我都替你難過，一個院長被吃豆腐，他跟你說95%一定是蔣萬安當選，他不要選，他不要當炮灰，他還講了其他理由，推薦一個叫鄭麗君或者卓榮泰，好啦！你不好回答就不要回答了，但是我告訴你，你被吃豆腐，因為你要當炮灰。","我們來看現在大家很關心的總預算還沒有付委，你一直講你不要當違憲的院長，言猶在耳，當初我們在推普發現金一萬，你也說違憲，後來你也發了，我們來看……"],["卓院長榮泰：因為我們經過法律的調整。"],["賴委員士葆：我已經講了，我沒有請你回答，不要回答。你不依法編列三讀通過的軍人加薪，給志願役加薪，我們買這麼多武器，當然希望我們志願役的人越來越多，現在的編現比八成左右，而且有1.2萬人寧願被罰都不要當兵，危險啦，怕死啦！對不對？結果警消退休預算也通過了，你也不要，影響的是什麼？現在卡住囉！總預算卡住了，我們要復議。我們跟美國不一樣，美國的政府關門了，關門40天，他解套了，因為他們沒有像臺灣這麼厲害，我們的憲法、我們這裡的法律很厲害，新的預算沒有通過，舊的可以用，但是新的不可以用，哪幾個部會增加？經濟部增加383億，國發會只有增加0.6億，農業部增加49億，國防部增加938億，但是如果加上特別預算，國防部整個增加的是3,000億之多。你講過一句話，這一句話我覺得是對的，你說你要找立法院韓院長來溝通一下，看怎麼樣有一個solution，請問你到現在為止有找韓院長嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：我跟韓院長在重要的時刻，我們都有溝通，如果針對委員所提的這件事情，我認為我在總質詢結束的前後應該跟韓院長有一個正式的談話。"],["賴委員士葆：大概什麼時候？"],["卓院長榮泰：總質詢結束的前後。"],["賴委員士葆：下禮拜就結束了。"],["卓院長榮泰：對，那也要看韓院長的時間。"],["賴委員士葆：儘快！照理講是你們要急，我們替你急啊！奇怪了，錢是你們在用的。"],["卓院長榮泰：如果韓院長同意，我也想請委員一起來參加。"],["賴委員士葆：我跟你講，院長，你要比我們急，現在怎麼是我們在急呢？我們不忍整個國家停擺，美國就停擺了40天，10%以上的航班都誤點，他的圖書館沒有人管，公園沒有人管，很慘！但因為我們的法律訂得比較好，舊的預算可以用，新的沒通過沒關係，所以以前也有發生過，有到隔年的4月、5月總預算才通過，這個都不好啦！我希望院長要做一個……"],["卓院長榮泰：我們一起來努力，好不好？"],["賴委員士葆：院長，大家來努力，你要做一個守規矩的院長，你不要動不動就講違憲，違憲不違憲不是你的權力，也不是你講的算，因為我再講，你剛剛回答了前面的委員說，這個違憲，我不要當違憲院長，很有氣魄，不要忘了，普發現金一萬，開始你也說違憲，後來你也發了。"],["卓院長榮泰：後來經過我們的修正，經過行政院修正之後，那是依照行政院的版本在發的。"],["賴委員士葆：虛話我都不愛聽。請部長一起來。"],["卓院長榮泰：哪一位部長？"],["賴委員士葆：經濟部長。"],["主席：請龔部長備詢。"],["賴委員士葆：美國關稅的下一步，總統說臺美談判會有好的的進展，那是10月22日，快一個月囉！昨天我到委員會問了我們的龔部長，他很會打太極拳，我問什麼時候可以搞定，臺美關稅不要20%加N、不要疊加，什麼時候可以搞定？龔院長說快了、快了，我現在問卓院長，什麼時候可以搞定？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們都有……"],["賴委員士葆：什麼時候可以搞定？"],["卓院長榮泰：對！我們雖然都沒有到美國，我們都有實際參與整個作業，我們認為現在已經到最後的階段，因為全世界也剩下臺灣等幾個國家。"],["賴委員士葆：這句話一個月以前就說過了，我跟你講，一開始……"],["卓院長榮泰：美國政府停擺，你也知道的啊！你也知道美國政府停擺，所以他很多事情也停下來。"],["賴委員士葆：那個不會停擺、高層沒有停擺，你不要隨便亂講。你看我們是最早跟美國談的四個國家之一，當時多厲害，你看臺灣多讚啊！前四名。到現在人家都確定了，韓國定了、日本定了，臺灣沒有定。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們有我們的……"],["賴委員士葆：還有一個說法是川習會之後才定，APEC他們見面了，也沒有定，難道要等到明年4月才定，他們明年4月才要再見面，難道是這樣子嗎？請回答一下。"],["卓院長榮泰：臺美雙方都希望能夠儘快把……"],["賴委員士葆：儘快是什麼時候？年底可以嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：這個不是我方單方的意願，說我算個時間……"],["賴委員士葆：是嘛，這個結果是什麼……"],["卓院長榮泰：像剛剛委員說我跟韓院長見面，我可以說我有一個期待的時間，但在美方不能說我方算個時間，美國政府……"],["賴委員士葆：你可以啦！這個是買方市場、賣方市場，現在來講，美方姿態那麼高……"],["卓院長榮泰：我跟委員承諾，我們會努力儘快，而且最近應該會有一些進展。"],["賴委員士葆：你說最近，最近是什麼時候？什麼叫最近？英文叫recently，你告訴我什麼時候叫最近？我們來看，你們沒有談的結果是什麼？在傳統產業，比如說，工具機將近5%，關稅plus 20%，等於25%，這很難過欸！很難過欸！經濟部長還在經濟委員會裡面吹牛，說我們針對傳統產業要形成大的產業控股公司，問題是他們現在苦哈哈，你先幫他們解決這個問題吧！","我就問，郭智輝部長有說過，除了關稅以外，對於傳統產業最重要的是匯率，他心目中希望能夠31，我去打聽了，業者希望是34。部長，你要不要講一下，你心目中要不要跟郭智輝一樣是31？雖然那是央行的職責、職權，但你總是有一個主觀的期待吧！替我們中小企業、替我們的傳統產業講講話，他們真的很辛苦，對匯率，你心目中有沒有一個譜？有沒有？"],["龔部長明鑫：政府官員不適合談匯率，所以……"],["賴委員士葆：怎麼不適合？郭部長就在這裡講31啊！怎麼不適合？"],["龔部長明鑫：我們只能講匯率要保持穩定，不要波動太大，短期間不要波動太大，事實上，業者也要求這樣子。"],["賴委員士葆：他就講31，因為傳統產業講34比較好，有人講32，他講31。現在是多少，你知道嗎？現在多少？"],["龔部長明鑫：現在匯率也差不多算穩定。"],["賴委員士葆：現在多少，你知道嗎？"],["龔部長明鑫：30塊8、30塊9左右。"],["賴委員士葆：三十點多，將近31啦！"],["龔部長明鑫：對。"],["卓院長榮泰：長期穩定就好。"],["賴委員士葆：所以你講31也是很安全啊！你怎麼不敢講呢？問一問都不敢講。"],["龔部長明鑫：這是市場在決定的，並不是我們在決定的。"],["賴委員士葆：第二個，現在美國最高法院審理川普的關稅案，川普可能輸喔！因為現在看到，不管大法官是來自於藍的、紅的，就是民主黨或者共和黨，他們基本上都認為川普違憲，他要賠20兆美金。請問部長或者院長有沒有想過，我們廠商這段時間，從8月開始20%加N、20%加N，一直課，我們原來大概只有2%、幾趴而已，有的5%，我們能不能回到原來的狀況，當然這個錢不是全部進口商付，但是我們也付了一部分，出口商付一部分，比如說要課20塊，進口商10塊、出口商10塊，我們能不能去跟他要回來，可不可以？"],["卓院長榮泰：跟委員報告，兩件事，第一個，對等關稅是美國對全世界普遍性的，不是單對我國，所以我們要脫離這個全世界的秩序，以目前來看，當然是困難的。再來，你要回到過去那種個位數的關稅，現在各國看起來也沒有這樣的情況，委員也是清楚的。"],["賴委員士葆：有！我現在告訴你，如果川普被判違憲有三個結果：第一個結果，不溯及既往，課了就拿走，這是川普想要的，拿走就拿走了；第二個，部分溯及既往，過去課了多少，拿一部分回來；第三個，全部溯及，這三個都有可能發生。"],["卓院長榮泰：都有可能。"],["賴委員士葆：三個都可能發生。我現在就問你，你們有沒有做沙盤推演？特別是經濟部長，我看你一副都不知道啊！"],["龔部長明鑫：沒有。報告委員，事實上，以川普政府來講，雖然我們不知道他們大法官會怎麼判，但是他還有其他的工具，包括232，他很多項目已經搬到232去了，他還有301。所以我們還是要做好準備，提升我們的競爭力比較重要。"],["賴委員士葆：不是，你雞同鴨講，你故意給我「黑龍繞桌」。我問你的是，我們已經被他課的關稅能不能要一點回來，替廠商要一點回來，幫廠商一點忙，你都沒有回答問題。"],["龔部長明鑫：沒有，他們最高法院都還沒有判，還不知道要怎麼判。"],["賴委員士葆：你要先準備，你準備好了沒有？就是你有沒有想過我們政府可以幫忙要一點回來？假如可以給人家的話？"],["龔部長明鑫：不是，他們最高法院判的話，如果要返還就會返還啊！"],["賴委員士葆：他不見得都還給商廠喔！我們出口商不一定拿得到，他是還給美國的進口公司，知道吧！所以比如說Amazon或者是Costco，或者是Walmart，他是還給Walmart，因為Walmart進來的時候，我們已經付一部分，他也付一部分，所以全部Walmart拿走，我們要不要幫助廠商，把他拿一點回來？我是問你這個。"],["龔部長明鑫：如果是這樣的話，我們當然會協助廠商……"],["賴委員士葆：有沒有這個機制？"],["龔部長明鑫：爭取他的權益。"],["賴委員士葆：請問你，我就在院長面前，可不可以責成經濟部這個事情先做一個事先的規劃一下？如果川普輸了，他們要還我們關稅，部分也好，全部也好，我們經濟部怎麼樣因應，一個禮拜把這個計畫提出來可以嗎？可不可以？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們現在第一個掌握的是，原來多少在對等關稅的已經移到232的部分，將來如果有一個判決的結果，會不會影響這部分……"],["賴委員士葆：沒有啦！我是要你們做一個評估報告，如果川普關稅輸了，我們的因應報告可以嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：兩個部分，一個就是原來的對等關稅，他已經要移到232……"],["賴委員士葆：我知道。"],["卓院長榮泰：將來這個判決之後有結果出來，會不會連232這個也會影響，這是一個部分……"],["賴委員士葆：你講的可不可以告訴我們部長，部長可不可以答應寫一個報告出來給我們，可以嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：第二個部分就是部長說的，在這裡面依照判決的結果，我方一定要爭取我們在商業行為上有利的條件。"],["賴委員士葆：那就再簡單一點，兩個禮拜以內提出這樣的報告，或者你上網讓外界看得到可以嗎？"],["龔部長明鑫：報告委員……"],["賴委員士葆：可以嗎？可以嗎？"],["龔部長明鑫：我是覺得在美國最高法院還沒有判決之前，我們出這樣報告是不是會影響到……"],["賴委員士葆：好，那判決之後，兩個禮拜以內提出報告可以嗎？"],["龔部長明鑫：好，可以、可以。"],["卓院長榮泰：可以、可以。"],["賴委員士葆：上網喔！"],["卓院長榮泰：可以。"],["賴委員士葆：判決以後，兩個禮拜內上網。"],["龔部長明鑫：可以。"],["賴委員士葆：我們來看今天媒體有寫到中油弊案，說中油的高層說錢太多，你們儘量地浮報……","農業部長一起上來好不好？農業部長一起上來可以嗎？"],["主席：請部長。"],["賴委員士葆：中油的，你們要不要去查一下？立案去查一下可以嗎？他說錢太多。"],["龔部長明鑫：事實上，113年的時候……就是之前已經有查了，去年就是有人……"],["賴委員士葆：有沒有這回事啦？有沒有這回事？"],["龔部長明鑫：有人提到政風已經查過一次了。"],["賴委員士葆：有沒有這回事？"],["龔部長明鑫：沒有這回事，但是現在有新的事證，我們會再查一次。"],["賴委員士葆：好，再查。"],["龔部長明鑫：對，會再查。"],["賴委員士葆：我最後請農業部長講一下，毒蛋現在的源頭在哪裡？現在找不到，告訴我們源頭在哪裡？趕快！剩二十幾秒。"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員說明，現在初步看起來是一個單一個案，因為芬普尼本身是殺蟲劑，基本上它不能用在雞隻上面，但是可能旁邊因為有農田，我們現在正在了解，然後現在總共有4批雞蛋，這些雞蛋全部下架。"],["賴委員士葆：時間到了，除了彰化以外，其他地方可能也有，有沒有可能？"],["陳部長駿季：都沒有，因為我們每年例行大概檢測了兩、三百件都不會有這個……"],["賴委員士葆：好，謝謝。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝賴委員，謝謝卓院長。","黃捷委員之質詢以書面提出，請行政院書面答復，並列入紀錄，刊登公報。"],["委員黃捷書面質詢：","一、電力區域均衡","我國目前電價是依據用戶身分別及是否採行時間電價，而有不同計算方式，對於不同區域別之用戶，並未採差異化計算，亦即台北市採非時間電價（累進電價）之一般住家，其電價計算方式與高雄市採非時間電價之一般住家並無二致，然而根據台電統計資料所示，六都以高雄市的電力自給率152.9%為最高，臺北市的電力自給率1.4%為最低，各縣市之間於發電及用電的責任及負擔顯不均衡。","再者，儘管蔡政府時期主導推動能源轉型、開發多元綠能，包括太陽光電及風力發電系統，惟就目前電網結構而言，仍高度仰賴少數大型發電廠，導致電力從發電端至用電端需經長程運輸，輸配電過程造成的線路損失量每年約有74.5億度，雖自1970年代起台電增加北部的電源開發計畫，然因區域尖峰電力供需不均，至今我國仍維持南電中送、中電北送的電力調度模式。","與此同時，大型發電廠在發電過程對周邊居民造成的健康風險或公安風險，及該縣市政府為保障民眾安全所付出之行政監督成本，卻未能於現有計價標準中被客觀考量，導致多數用電戶不需對發電過程衍生之健康及社會成本負責，而該風險卻由少數發電縣市獨自承擔，形成環境不正義。","爰建請行政院研議下列事項：","一、電費計價應基於環境正義，納入發電廠坐落縣市之健康成本、社會成本及行政監督成本等因素。","二、全力發展分散式電網，避免發電設施集中於少數縣市，達成發電自主、提高電力調度彈性，並減少輸配電之線路損失率。","三、鼓勵社區推動公民電廠，簡化行政流程及門檻，並優先輔導偏遠或易成孤島地區，提升其發電自主率，並結合儲能設施，強化社區電網韌性。","二、獸醫師倫理規範","據媒體報導，一名於臺中市執業的謝姓獸醫師，於苗栗縣內開設寵物繁殖場，且對其所飼養、繁殖犬隻進行非醫療目的之聲帶割除手術，後苗栗縣府雖依動物保護法開罰，但對於其擅自割除犬隻聲帶之不當行為，現行獸醫師法卻無罰則得以有效約束。","檢視現行動物保護法，對寵物飼主訂有飼養行為規範及相關罰則，目的係確保動物福利得以受到保障，然而與動物醫療行為相關的獸醫師法，卻未訂有獸醫師倫理規範來保障動物福利。舉本案為例，動物保護法第五條第二項第十一款，規定飼主除絕育外，不得對寵物施以非必要或不具醫療目的之手術，惟對於施以不當手術之獸醫師，獸醫師法卻無相關禁止規定或罰則。","爰建請行政院推動下列事項，包括：","一、研議修正獸醫師執業登記及繼續教育辦法，提高專業倫理課程之積分採計比重。","二、啟動獸醫師法修正，納入獸醫師相關倫理規範及相應罰則。","三、提升養豬場生物安全管理","農業部於110年推出四年期「因應貿易開放養豬產業全面轉型升級計畫」，俗稱「養豬百億基金」，用以改善我國養豬畜舍環境，並精進生物安全管理措施，輔導及補助項目包括建置新式整合型豬舍或相關設施、採用異地多地批次分齡飼養模式、導入自動化省工設備等，然截至113年12月為止，全國養豬場約為5,664場，卻僅完成1,923棟新式整合型豬舍、1,912場建置自動化省工設備、76場改採異地多地批次分齡飼養模式，且農民願意改善項目多集中於硬體設施，然而對於以空間區隔強化生物安全管理之異地多地批次分齡飼養模式，卻多採保守看待。","有鑑於我國周邊多為非洲豬瘟疫區，縱使邊境管理加嚴可減少豬瘟病毒從境外傳入之機會，然而落實生物安全管理措施，可有效建立疫病傳播斷點，減少病毒快速擴散之速度，對於我國控制疫病傳播將有莫大助益，爰建請行政院推動下列事項，包括：","一、重點輔導異地多地批次分齡飼養模式，強化生物安全隔離。","二、對於有續養意願之中小型養豬戶，提高其畜舍改建及設備補助額度，協助分擔設備投資成本。","三、對於即將退場且無轉型意願之老農戶，應加強協助其生物安全管理措施，降低整體養豬產業風險。"],["主席：報告院會，休息10分鐘，休息之後繼續進行質詢，現在休息。","休息（10時19分）","繼續開會（10時30分）"]],"agenda":{"page_end":180,"meet_id":"院會-11-4-8","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","吳宗憲","賴瑞隆","顏寬恒","林楚茵","賴士葆","黃捷","何欣純","陳亭妃","丁學忠","劉建國","莊瑞雄","李柏毅","林德福","葛如鈞","賴惠員","黃珊珊","林楚茵","呂玉玲","麥玉珍","鄭正鈐","王鴻薇","郭昱晴","吳思瑤","陳俊宇","羅美玲","范雲","李坤城","張雅琳"],"page_start":85,"meetingDate":["2025-11-11"],"gazette_id":"1149101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1149101_00004","1149101_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期第8次會議紀錄","content":"施政質詢\n對行政院院長施政報告繼續質詢─繼續質詢─","agenda_id":"1149101_00005"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}