{"error":false,"id":["165276"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":165276,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165276","日期":"2025-11-12","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-4-36-7","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第7次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":4,"會次":7,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[36],"委員會代碼:str":["司法及法制委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第7次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2025-11-12T11:09:46+08:00","結束時間":"2025-11-12T11:24:58+08:00","影片長度":"00:15:12","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a35f0de19abcdbe31c2ba24957f15e2757c737e12387eef8a983a90274432617938357d8e0506d445ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"吳思瑤","委員發言時間":"11:09:46 - 11:24:58","會議時間":"2025-11-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：併案審查\n（一）司法院、行政院函請審議「少年事件處理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員廖偉翔等18人擬具「少年事件處理法第七十四條條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「少年事件處理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（四）委員林月琴等24人擬具「少年事件處理法第八十三條之一條文修正草案」案。\n（五）委員沈伯洋等19人擬具「少年事件處理法第八十三條之一條文修正草案」案。\n（六）委員沈發惠等16人擬具「少年事件處理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（七）委員翁曉玲等17人擬具「少年事件處理法第三十一條條文修正草案」案。\n【僅進行詢答】\n【11月12日及13日兩天一次會】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":0.03096875,"end":3.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5.58284375,"end":6.13971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8.012843750000002,"end":10.493468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11.57346875,"end":12.51846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13.93596875,"end":15.47159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16.75409375,"end":21.715343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":25.25909375,"end":25.782218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":25.883468750000002,"end":27.773468750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":27.874718750000003,"end":28.38096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":28.617218750000003,"end":29.00534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":29.54534375,"end":37.30784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":37.32471875,"end":39.75471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":41.52659375,"end":41.56034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":41.56034375,"end":42.08346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":42.572843750000004,"end":57.321593750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":43.36596875,"end":43.75409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":57.69284375,"end":123.82596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":124.92284375000001,"end":125.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":126.20534375000001,"end":127.06596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":127.48784375000001,"end":134.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":134.91284375,"end":137.64659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":138.62534375,"end":140.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":141.27471875,"end":143.58659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":143.77221875,"end":146.16846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":147.01221875000002,"end":150.77534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":151.99034375000002,"end":163.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":163.90409375000002,"end":171.48096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":172.52721875,"end":172.91534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":174.34971875000002,"end":175.39596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":177.99471875,"end":191.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":191.49471875,"end":202.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":195.35909375,"end":195.89909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":197.36721875,"end":197.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":197.40096875,"end":197.43471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":197.43471875,"end":197.46846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":197.46846875,"end":197.83971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":202.86846875,"end":208.30221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":209.50034375,"end":209.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":209.97284375,"end":228.02909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":228.92346875,"end":247.23284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":247.84034375000002,"end":249.49409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":249.56159375000001,"end":250.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":250.54034375,"end":290.60159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":291.20909375,"end":295.20846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":295.90034375000005,"end":306.16034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":307.12221875,"end":327.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":327.86159375,"end":339.77534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":340.55159375,"end":342.64409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":343.58909375,"end":344.38221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":344.88846875,"end":351.58784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":352.61721875,"end":379.83659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":380.30909375000005,"end":387.93659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":389.65784375000004,"end":390.51846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":390.51846875,"end":390.58596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":390.65346875,"end":392.89784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":393.45471875000004,"end":416.38784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":415.02096875,"end":442.71284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":443.20221875000004,"end":477.27284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":477.82971875000004,"end":493.84409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":494.40096875,"end":514.09409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":514.6340937499999,"end":517.21596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":517.7222187500001,"end":523.5947187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":523.96596875,"end":529.88909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":530.29409375,"end":531.3234687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":532.15034375,"end":537.2803437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":538.7822187500001,"end":540.0984687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":541.07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待會誰要替我主持?我們就不用忙了翁委員你不可以走我先到隔壁去好 你趕快 趕快請吳司堯委員做詢答沒有啦 做 做 做知 烏 烏"},{"start":29.745,"end":56.778,"text":"好 謝謝 謝謝辛苦的熊讚召委請王富密也請我們的次長徐次請王富密還有徐次長委員好進入我今天少事法修法的主題之前我認為台灣的司法部門的獨立我們的司法部門也應當表態中國的跨境鎮壓已經嚴重打擊了我國的司法獨立下一頁"},{"start":57.768,"end":79.308,"text":"所以說當中華民國立法院的沈伯陽委員面對中國這種長臂管轄他傷害的是台灣的法治傷害的更是台灣的國會尊嚴所以民進黨希望透過朝野不分黨派一起來聲明反制我們會持續努力非常遺憾"},{"start":80.289,"end":106.409,"text":"民進黨團要求國會共同聲明來力挺我們的國會議員的這件事情呢到目前為止在野黨兩黨選擇噤聲面對中國他們似乎就選擇了姑息昨天賴清德總統也清楚的對外來宣誓要捍衛保護每一個國人的權利跟安全畢竟今天沈伯陽明天任何人"},{"start":107.23,"end":133.44,"text":"立法院的是民進黨團持續來努力我們不會放棄在國會表達嚴正立場的這一份朝野應當有一個共同聲明民進黨會持續努力但是呢在我們所有的行政部門外交部陸委會警政署乃至於國安會針對這件事情中國的長臂管轄大打法律戰"},{"start":134.946,"end":162.637,"text":"各相關部門都發生了跟司法院沒有關係嗎跟法務部沒有關係嗎台灣的司法權限被對岸如此的踐踏欺凌要長臂管轄危及我國的國人我認為我們的司法機關不能夠沒有表態 沒有說明所以我今天就這個機會短短的時間"},{"start":164.736,"end":175.183,"text":"請兩位我們重要的司法機關今天備詢的代表簡要來表達我們的立場好嗎下一頁是誰先徐次"},{"start":178.018,"end":201.161,"text":"好 各位委員報告中國片面宣稱對我國的法律定位跟單方頒布法規對我國人發布通緝立案調查等作為對我國民眾不伸任何拘束力所以我們嚴正表達國人不用怕中國管不到台灣他的治權不及於台灣捍衛我們的司法獨立好 來 請"},{"start":203.049,"end":227.176,"text":"台灣是一個獨立治權的那個地方那我們司法權也是獨立的所以不容別人對我們的任何國人還有立法委員甚至他是以捏造犯罪的方式他可能先發布了這種棄拿立案接著可能是缺席懲判接著也會是全球的通緝"},{"start":228.957,"end":249.165,"text":"台灣我們是民主法治國家我們NEVER對任何一國的國會議員基於沒有犯罪的事實捏造他的罪名而且是這種政治思想罪名然後對任何他國的國人施以這種作為吧我們不會NEVER NEVER NEVER"},{"start":250.625,"end":272.799,"text":"所以說我今天我一直蠻遺憾的我一直在等法務部跟司法院應當嚴正的主動對外來捍衛我國的司法獨立但我藉由短短的時間中國是全球的首惡在世界各國他們目前160起跨境鎮壓的事件中國是之惡之首22%是由中國發動的下一頁"},{"start":276.061,"end":294.869,"text":"所以對於台灣的長臂管轄不管是對於我們的軍方人員 新戰大隊人員片面的來懸賞片面的來立案調查完全都不及於台灣我們不用怕下一頁吳斯堯本人也被他列為是台獨打手"},{"start":295.956,"end":305.916,"text":"那當然沈博洋是讓這一次全台灣大家群情激憤我們共同要捍衛司法獨立的主要的一個對象好 最後"},{"start":307.162,"end":327.003,"text":"我希望未來在類似的事件中國羅織罪名複合式的壓迫法律戰絕對是非常重要的一環只要干預到我們的司法獨立我國的法治權限我再一次提醒也希望"},{"start":328.004,"end":350.909,"text":"司法院也好法務部也好都應當主動積極的表明立場這是我們不可退讓的主權我們不可退讓的司法獨立我再次提醒好嗎因為今天用了我五分鐘的時間好下一頁今天少事法的修法修法之後and land我認為要系統性對症下藥下一頁"},{"start":352.677,"end":379.27,"text":"我當然肯定我們落實國際的兒童人權公約在55條55-2 56條確保符合少年最佳的利益我們採取多樣化的處置我支持同樣的對於加嚴少年前案記錄的塗銷機制我目前也傾向可以支持你們的提案但是我要問這個定三年的這個期限"},{"start":380.59,"end":387.678,"text":"會不會違反了國際的權力公約的疑慮可不可能 你們周延考量過了嗎"},{"start":389.893,"end":414.68,"text":"誰可以回答我請廳長來回覆好 是委員好 是有關於三年這樣的定案就是是在當時形成這個政策前做了非常多的實務的蒐集以及再換的一些分析最後就是學者的建議還有參佐國際的一些立法"},{"start":415.3,"end":441.633,"text":"我完全理解基於實務的研析然後也有參採國際的做法這是重點不要為了這個修法我們固然要求取社會安全跟少年需求保護的平衡但是也不要走回頭路我們也不應當為了修法不小心去觸犯了國際的那個權利公約的那個底線OK我提醒你們我相信你們也做好研議下一頁"},{"start":443.254,"end":468.029,"text":"但是呢法治這幾年來更健全了政策更精進了可是少年的事件是不減反增喔這是我前陣子去聆聽一個演講是更生少年關懷協會他們做的一個數字當然每一個數字在我看來都驚心動魄簡言之從少年的嫌疑犯還有少年犯罪的人口率甚至再犯率"},{"start":468.689,"end":493.085,"text":"都是讓人非常驚駭的數字因為它是不減反增的所以我們需要系統性的去診斷跟下手下眼而最新的少年的犯罪類型淪為詐騙集團的最佳利用工具六成是車手就當然在這一類的犯罪類型裡頭我們要擴大保護少年不容易被騙"},{"start":494.666,"end":513.688,"text":"這個我們要做 下一頁但是我今天要提出來的系統性我有follow到行政院事實上提出了這一個三級預防全面性的預防兒童及青少年的犯罪方案四年七十六億這個方案大家都involve對不對 大家一起催生"},{"start":514.71,"end":537.024,"text":"那這個問題大哉問了我們希望逐年減少少年處罰的人數年減1%如果以剛剛我提供的數字其實我們的成長率是高的能做到嗎四年76億在三級預防的機制來徐次長你是主管部會之一"},{"start":543.286,"end":561.779,"text":"我想我們從宣導面、防治面跟查紀面都要努力真的要努力目標是不容易但是大家要努力努力做到所以我們自己知道年減1%的少年處罰人數是不容易的是不容易但是我們要努力"},{"start":562.199,"end":581.093,"text":"好 努力做到 努力做到我會每一年 如果我在司法法治委員會我每年會追蹤這個數字這是系統性 我非常支持一定要系統性的去看待這個問題但是 系統性有了4年76億但是我今天替你們點出一些個別執行的BIOS 下一頁"},{"start":581.974,"end":596.371,"text":"首先 邵府會絕對是一個非常重要的我們要行政輔導先行 司法處遇在後但是當我發現2023年到2024年各地方政府邵府會的修建輔導數是4022件"},{"start":599.875,"end":626.324,"text":"但是呢明明要輔導先行可是呢2024年我統計出來的司法處遇進到少年法庭去受理的案件卻是5.76倍而這個當中會不會有漏接的數字也就是說我相信很多是連輔導都沒有touch到這群人直接就是少年法庭去審理了這樣一個狀況怎麼強化"},{"start":631.771,"end":654.988,"text":"來那個向委員報告之所以會呈現這樣的數字是因為進到那個少年那個法院的他除了就是說是這個曝險的之外他很多是那個觸犯刑事法律所以他不經過先行就是直接進到那我問一下那如果有一些非這類的案件他應當先輔導再來送司法處遇而這個漏接率高嗎我應該這樣問"},{"start":657.864,"end":676.859,"text":"委員好 這一部分是目前的設計是不會的鋪選先行輔導那有兩類第一類就是又觸法就會送到少年法院那少年法院的法官已經訂好法官可以去審查完要求少輔會不可以停止繼續鋪選輔導就兩邊那第二類就是少輔會認為所有輔導都用盡了沒辦法"},{"start":683.064,"end":702.078,"text":"那就送到我們這邊來我們就以普選的分案來進行是這兩類好那這個跟我的認知有一點落差沒關係我會持續的來研究好謝謝您的回答下頁第二個問題安置輔導的人數銳減我這裡整理出近十年安置輔導人數統計從2015年154人一年到2024年一年只有15人"},{"start":708.622,"end":733.339,"text":"監察院在2019年也已經調查要求司法院跟衛福部要檢討對於這種無法媒合適當的安置機構對於偏遠地區的專業資源不足對於特殊狀況的少年特別難以去尋找願意來安置的機構這些都是困難跟問題一年只安置15人這個數字我覺得很難接受耶"},{"start":734.455,"end":759.236,"text":"複命謝謝委員提出的問題因為委員所講的呈現這個現象呢也是我們少年法院的痛因為安置輔導他是一個對某些孩子來講適當的一個處分非常重要的我們那個因為法院畢竟是那個司法權那安置這是屬於那個設政機構是屬於行政端所以衛福部跟司法院都要一起看怎麼來做嗎"},{"start":760.017,"end":780.499,"text":"因為現在像現在目前全國目前可以接受那個司法安置只有11家25個床位他的量能就這麼少那如果說我們讓兩院當然是行政院的衛福部跟司法院共同來研議去建置一個專屬的少年的安置"},{"start":782.179,"end":804.228,"text":"機構可不可行我們就用一個新的大的計畫來做有沒有可能否則你會去依賴現在有的安置機構他能夠offer的空間人力物力的限制不是嗎這個部分其實司法院持續都有跟衛福部這個地方在開會有沒有可能這已經講很久了"},{"start":806.313,"end":811.21,"text":"是 报告委员我们持续那个刚刚那个四年七十六亿没有这方面的规划"},{"start":812.548,"end":839.676,"text":"我們持續一直在跟主管安置機構的社家署做相關的研議目前有兩個作為比較積極一個就是達成協議說各縣市的社會局設有一個窗口在媒合司法少年所以各單位各少年法庭需要的會去跟他們的窗口連結但媒合成功的是有一定但是也有沒成功的"},{"start":840.516,"end":863.852,"text":"沒成功的很多啊但是非常需要委員說的事權統一但現在還繼續在雙方協商中請你們去回去研議三個月內來針對這個國家來成立一個跨院的合作專屬的安置醫療機構可行性評估一下我必須持續追蹤這件事情好嗎 否則我們就會"},{"start":865.473,"end":877.981,"text":"求助無門也都過度依賴現有的安置機構好我知道主持要站起來了我後面有幾個問題來下一個包括矯正學校的運作管理的疏失包括下一頁"},{"start":879.249,"end":907.063,"text":"包括我們的霸凌防制2025上路但是只用於四間少角校18間的少年關護所是outsider我提出來請你們檢討最後一個我們的少年調查保護官的人力不足缺的人力是上百人好幾百位喔這後續有機會我會再就教於各位但是我希望能夠全面性的來提點出這些的問題之後才能夠系統性的有效的來解決"},{"start":907.703,"end":908.405,"text":"不好意思 再用時間 我們下一次再討論謝謝幾位 謝謝"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}