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11:43:59","會議時間":"2025-11-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：併案審查\n（一）司法院、行政院函請審議「少年事件處理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員廖偉翔等18人擬具「少年事件處理法第七十四條條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「少年事件處理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（四）委員林月琴等24人擬具「少年事件處理法第八十三條之一條文修正草案」案。\n（五）委員沈伯洋等19人擬具「少年事件處理法第八十三條之一條文修正草案」案。\n（六）委員沈發惠等16人擬具「少年事件處理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（七）委員翁曉玲等17人擬具「少年事件處理法第三十一條條文修正草案」案。\n【僅進行詢答】\n【11月12日及13日兩天一次會】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3.06846875,"end":4.755968750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7.624718750000001,"end":12.855968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13.56471875,"end":14.10471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14.644718750000003,"end":15.657218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":18.49221875,"end":68.93159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":69.21846875,"end":92.32034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":84.67596875000001,"end":84.74346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":84.87846875000001,"end":84.89534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":93.63659375,"end":99.84659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":100.25159375000001,"end":110.95034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":111.13596875,"end":118.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":111.38909375,"end":111.49034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":119.62409375000001,"end":122.13846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":122.91471875,"end":124.66971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":125.27721875,"end":127.01534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":128.12909375,"end":128.80409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":129.00659375,"end":129.86721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":130.99784375000002,"end":137.83221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":138.43971875,"end":143.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":143.89034375,"end":147.60284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":148.17659375000002,"end":148.86846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":149.96534375000002,"end":154.94346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":155.48346875000001,"end":157.79534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":158.77409375000002,"end":160.07346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":160.95096875000002,"end":172.83096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":173.57346875000002,"end":174.83909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":175.78409375,"end":179.05784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":179.19284375,"end":180.57659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":180.96471875,"end":190.27971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":190.95471875,"end":195.44346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":196.37159375000002,"end":200.43846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":200.97846875000002,"end":215.81159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":216.80721875,"end":218.05596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":220.40159375000002,"end":222.84846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":223.54034375,"end":224.56971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":230.10471875000002,"end":281.50596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":281.69159375000004,"end":284.32409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":284.47596875,"end":286.38284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":286.63596875,"end":310.85159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":310.85159375,"end":310.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":311.23971875,"end":313.73721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":314.09159375,"end":324.65534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":325.80284375,"end":333.39659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":333.81846875,"end":335.42159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":336.14721875000004,"end":338.91471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":339.91034375000004,"end":343.75784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":343.92659375,"end":345.56346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":347.89221875000004,"end":349.19159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":349.42784375,"end":354.84471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":355.13159375000004,"end":360.90284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":361.02096875,"end":368.63159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":369.07034375,"end":379.12784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":379.70159375000003,"end":397.62284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":398.39909375,"end":399.46221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":400.13721875000005,"end":403.09034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":403.54596875000004,"end":419.12159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":419.98221875,"end":420.70784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":421.48409375,"end":427.47471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":427.98096875000005,"end":453.09096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":453.46221875000003,"end":464.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":464.66721875,"end":474.23534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":474.69096875,"end":479.70284375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":480.41159375,"end":496.59471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":483.46596875000006,"end":483.63471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":496.83096875,"end":503.17596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":503.665343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亂世用重點我倒不認為是一個亂世但是這個詐騙猖狂 這確實是這樣子利用兒童 利用少年 又是一個事實有什麼比較好的補嗎這個司法院的好像不適合講這個 來 社長"},{"start":230.294,"end":249.227,"text":"我想我們目前對於小孩子成人利用小孩子這個部分以前我們比較缺乏跟少年法院這邊的聯繫上一次我們政委還有我們都跟司法院已經做了很好的溝通現在就是在地檢署跟地方法院"},{"start":249.767,"end":272.481,"text":"第二法院我們有一個聯繫的會議也就是說像現在對於陳少共犯的部分他們已經提供很多很多的協助那跟少年法庭這邊的合作這個是有效可以打擊這些成年人我剛剛非常贊成委員剛才所講的就是說該處罰的是利用這些小孩子的後面的成年人"},{"start":273.422,"end":288.662,"text":"現在給我們這麼大的注意的話我們在司法警察在追溯這些源頭是有一定的注意我們認為在追緝面是這樣宣導面當然我們也會努力其實這個是一個跨部會的問題"},{"start":289.984,"end":310.425,"text":"委員你很了解我們現實的社會裡面這個在教育面學校面是大家要一起努力的否則這個小孩子縱使是感化教育他回到社會以後如果家庭跟學校沒有辦法接觸他他又會回到那個集團這就是不斷地在衍生出來的問題剛好洪孟愷委員"},{"start":311.807,"end":335.306,"text":"這次很專業的委員剛好走進來他上次談到這個詐騙犯他是認為要用新加坡那個邊形我是反對他的看法我反對他的部分因為沒有時間講得不清楚我認為都太便宜了你打幾邊你真的以為這個詐騙他這個本身他就你真的他這個就會這個整個犯罪就會降下來沒有那麼簡單的事啊就這一些詐騙的人是可惡啊"},{"start":339.949,"end":365.451,"text":"你說要打他幾邊你浪費多大的一個社會的一個成本怎麼是打他幾邊而已怎麼是打他幾邊而已反而我倒覺得說這個應該是要用怎麼樣的嚇阻的一個方式啊或者如何去加重其刑啊那當然最主要就是說我們整個我們整個這個司法警察部門這個部分如何去快速"},{"start":365.931,"end":377.99,"text":"去把這些瓦解掉那才是一個重點那我想接下來我必須要再請教司法院的就是說我們整個塗銷我們涉及到這個修法裡面會有塗銷你去看看我們最高法院過去的實務"},{"start":380.035,"end":399.011,"text":"你說九十八年台非三二二那個刑事判決裡面去講到說你受刑的執行完畢後赦免一日起算三年內未在手行之新聞告該前科紀錄不復存在就是說這個少年在此三年內是否再犯罪並非所問"},{"start":400.219,"end":418.942,"text":"那我看今天看了廳長的這些講法以後啊當然是回應社會啦 回應社會啦但是你去看這個歷程啊你說塗銷這個歷程跟少年事件的一個少事法的一個典範轉移的一個重要條文你從沒有塗銷到一直鼓勵到達到充分保護的一個意志"},{"start":420.066,"end":440.008,"text":"你看這個大家 我現在王滬密或者廳長應該很清楚嘛林濟東 韓中 我這都算我們的師公當年你說在1955年在成立少年法專案小組的時候採依教不依法的立法的一個原則也就是說過去的少事法是充滿的少年的保護主義"},{"start":440.731,"end":463.65,"text":"那到了1976年起戒嚴時期又被質疑說是鼓勵犯罪重視社會治安的維護高於青少年的健全的一個教育所以你在1976年又增添一個塗銷制度就五年未再宣告這個執行完畢或者赦免五年以內沒有再受行之宣告視為未曾受該宣告以致來做一個鼓勵"},{"start":465.104,"end":479.178,"text":"後來1997年就一個分水嶺全面又回歸少年保護制度把這個塗銷這個部分我相信又做了一個改變修法前跟修法後這個塗銷的一個差異我想請"},{"start":480.655,"end":506.311,"text":"複密跟這個徐政次你去做一個參考啦這一些我倒覺得說你現在不分室友輕重都在增加一個三年未在犯罪的室友才可以突銷是不是符合這個國際公約裡面健全少年自我成長跟避免烙印或污名化的一個初衷我們在司法法治委員會裡面我們常常會去談到國際公約對不對 因為"},{"start":510.046,"end":532.197,"text":"兒童權利施行法裡面他就講得很清楚我是今天早上去看 聽到你這樣的一個一個詢打的時候我是嚇一跳因為如果以最高法院歷來的一個見解的話都認為這個施行法是在法律適用的時候是一個特別法"},{"start":534.212,"end":540.818,"text":"我不曉得那個廳長你的看法是怎麼樣因為早上都是你在回答嘛是不是可以就教你一下好不好我的意思就是說兒童權利公約我們內國化以後那你最高法院你一向都是肯認是優先適用是的 我同意委員的說明"},{"start":558.163,"end":581.008,"text":"你同意案,但是你就跟你可以講的不一樣喔我是認為要謹慎你是個在回應社會,不錯社會上很多狀況你就必須要解決老百姓對這個詐騙是非常痛恨的司法院勇於認識,這是好事啊但是我認為你對...因為這一步叫做少年事件處理法你這個是方向在轉彎"},{"start":582.557,"end":607.954,"text":"要小心 這個在對話這個過程裡面應該是是不是再 應該是再 怎麼講 再謹慎一點學者專家是不是比較多元的意見 再納進來一下否則的話 我是比較擔心對於整個兒童的一個保護的一個部分"},{"start":609.315,"end":636.427,"text":"所以會變成為了回應整個社會的一個事件的應對應對這樣的一個結果呢會不會到最後被認為是一個草率因為過去的少年都是在講保護然後呢我們是鞏固他將來發展的一個可能性那變成說你這次的修法裡面草案裡面我看到了變成說你把硬報跟預防都放進來了都放進來了"},{"start":638.496,"end":660.489,"text":"那所以呢跟過去啊如果說你們有什麼意見或確實認為整個少年事件都不應該完全是採這個教化啊寬容啊社會安全網的多元儲育來做一個改善的話那這個部分反而我覺得說也應該啊來講清楚啦來講清楚啦而且又牽扯到整個"},{"start":661.731,"end":683.588,"text":"這個整個聯合國的一個公約我們已經把它內國化了那是不是司法院的立場這個確實不應該只按這個在巡達裡面簡單的幾句話講完以後大家認為就是你代表整個司法院的立場我覺得這個就真的要慎重所以我今天早上一直講說你今天的態度比法務部還"},{"start":686.371,"end":702.668,"text":"還寂靜就已經在這個地方不曉得那個廳長謝謝委員的指教我認為少年復歸社會去處標籤確實是剛剛說的兒權公約的一個明定很清楚那原來的少數還是這樣"},{"start":703.749,"end":715.663,"text":"那麼我們室委員提出來這個版本附條件的這個部分寬延的問題我們接受各界來尋求剛剛委員說的那個內容我同意 謝謝"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}