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謝謝主席 我們請邱主委邱主委主委好我剛剛在這裡也是聽到您這個備詢的這樣的狀況我認為是這樣子就是說其實剛剛諸位委員其實一直在質疑您的就是他們認為陸委會是不是是一種對中國是完全採取不交流不接觸這樣的態度"},{"start":36.734,"end":40.417,"text":"你在在的否認嘛 對不對好 沒有錯吧 是剛剛是這樣嘛好 那我認為是這樣子因為其實我剛剛聽到這整個狀況啊應該是說你認為現在我們並沒有拒絕和中國互動往來完全是因為中國給我們設了一個前提你可以再說一次這個前提是什麼嗎"},{"start":60.39,"end":83.879,"text":"是 跟委員報告為什麼不去的前 中國設的前提我們當然希望跟中國大陸進行良性互動對共同來促進台海的和平穩定跟繁榮這個對我們來 兩岸都有所所以他的前提但是他的前提我們只要跟他官方互動他一定要接受他一中原則或是九二共識所以中華民國就不存在了對你剛剛就這樣說嘛是"},{"start":86.74,"end":90.782,"text":"對 可是我剛剛聽到這個整個大家的質詢內容的狀況它會是一個這樣子一個不斷的循環就像中國你為什麼不去跟中國交流因為中國說要跟他交流之前必須先承認一中也就是中華民國就消滅了然後他就繼續會告訴你說那你就是大張旗鼓的維持尊嚴的去到他那裡跟他談我是中華民國我要尊嚴"},{"start":110.732,"end":120.76,"text":"那可是問題是中國就是要先你不承認中華民國你已經中華民國不存在你世界上只有一個中華人民共和國他才要讓你上去啊那你就是去那上面再跟他說這個我們中華民國存在主委看起來你現在面臨的是一個這樣的狀況因為如果這個論述你沒有對應這個論述的真正的話我看你的預算可能會守不住喔"},{"start":136.873,"end":150.707,"text":"委員講得很好委員有提到有些委員把不交流的一些責任都歸諸在我們政府身上這不公平的事實上委員講得好就是說製造交流的障礙是"},{"start":152.368,"end":179.565,"text":"對岸 路方造成的啦我們都願意在對等尊嚴進行健康有序的交流這是我們的政策剛剛我們羅密蘇蘭也講到如果說在這個原則下我們應該在觀光客在學生的交流方面來啟動共同追求一個和平共榮的目標這也都是我們賴總統所接觸的兩岸政策但是是對岸設置的這個片面的障礙"},{"start":180.325,"end":190.411,"text":"使我們沒有辦法進行這種正常的交流而把沒辦法正常進行的這個交流歸入於現在我們的政府這不公平全世界都認為這是很不公平的事是 我認為其實現在台灣社會的主流意見在經過這麼多的震盪之後其實中華民國 中華民國 台灣台灣就是我們現在最大的一個共識"},{"start":203.479,"end":206.821,"text":"我們是一個主權獨立的國家我們在這裡有我們自己的制度這個是我們絕大多數人都認同的共識就是在這裡所以剛剛在說的你後面到底有沒有觀光客要來啊這個兩岸的產業能不能夠互動啊等等等等其實就是要建立在我們可以自己把自己的國家保護好的狀況之下嘛"},{"start":226.514,"end":241.583,"text":"所以中國讓我們過去的前提就是要先自己承認自己不存在不存在在這個世界上這件事情一定要讓更多的國人了解所有後面的題目都是跟前面這個他要求你先承認你自己不存在才有後面"},{"start":244.4,"end":249.824,"text":"這件事情我覺得應該要讓社會更了解所以比如說好了我們今天其實我本來要問你的是這個這個中國央視的發布剛剛也有很多人提到的這個起底台獨沈伯陽的這支紀錄片好 而且呢在這支紀錄片裡面其實它最重要的兩個事情第一件事情它就是中國官方要對沈伯陽委員展開全球抓捕全球的抓捕喔就是不是只有在中國進來到你到任何一個地方他都要抓你"},{"start":273.663,"end":284.21,"text":"第二個他最重要的就是在片尾的時候給你加上一句收手吧否則下一個就是你主委你認為這支影片所提到的中國可以有權利對在境外抓捕沈伯陽委員嗎抓捕我們中華民國的立法委員沈伯陽委員嗎這是我的第一個問題"},{"start":296.758,"end":301.506,"text":"第二個 你認為中國做這一支紀錄片 所謂的紀錄片但事實上根本就不是事實的 偽紀錄片這樣的態度 他到底是想要做什麼"},{"start":306.581,"end":326.728,"text":"跟委員報告他最主要的目的是恫嚇跟分化我們雙手把下一個就是你其實我們每個人都有可能變成什麼樣因為我們閱讀過審讀22條你如果不支持中國的對台政策的話你很可能就是被法律是違反他們的審讀22條他就可以對你立案調查他就可以"},{"start":330.894,"end":345.107,"text":"終身追訴然後長臂管轄無眼佛界甚至可以判處死刑缺席審判沒收財產連累家人一連串的這種跨境鎮壓這是國人要凝聚共識"},{"start":346.128,"end":354.536,"text":"來反對 來譴責這種行為所以很顯然的這是一支新戰的影片嘛新戰的影片他是在製造恐懼啊把你這些作為可能都是犯罪所以我可以全球抓捕你而且就抓你回中國這是他要達到的效果好 那我們就剛剛問的第一個問題其實是主委 中國有這種權利嗎中國可以有這樣的境外嗎中國可以透過國際刑警組織和跨境司法合作來抓捕沈伯陽委員嗎主持人說這樣嗎"},{"start":372.751,"end":394.606,"text":"他發布這個影片反而是我們進行國際溝通一個很好的題材中國大陸在國際社會要抓捕政治犯讓中國的形象讓中國他不僅是對我們跨境鎮壓他也可能對全世界各國展開這種跨境鎮壓我們要把這個台灣的事情讓國際社會都了解"},{"start":395.467,"end":408.294,"text":"很好這是第一個讓國際社會更了解中國的無理性但是我們如果從法律層面上面來講以實體上面來講罪名的狀況影片中間提到的一切其實都沒有具體的證據啊通通沒有具體的證據只是一直強調傷害中國人的感情"},{"start":411.195,"end":413.817,"text":"請問這是什麼樣的罪名程序問題來講的話中國能不能夠做這些境外的逮捕追緝其實取決於中國跟各國的司法相關的引渡條例啊但是引渡條例不能夠針對政治犯啊所以中國常常都是會用什麼洗錢啊等等給你安一些這些罪名他才能進行這樣做引渡嘛"},{"start":433.129,"end":451.374,"text":"所以不管是從實體或者是程序中國其實都不能夠像影片所述的直接就是全球追捕沈伯陽委員所以到最後他用一個不存在的事實來做一個不存在的罪名做一個不可能的行為其實最重要他只是想要告訴你 收手吧"},{"start":451.974,"end":474.452,"text":"下一個可能就是你喔就是這樣的新戰作用嘛所以我認為其實陸委會最重要的事情比起剛剛的這樣說我個人認為其實最重要的事情是我們要想辦法讓台灣我們所有的國民能夠了解自己的處境我們在跟中國交往的困境其實就是一他要你先承認你的國家不存在"},{"start":475.533,"end":478.817,"text":"才有機會去談判才有機會會進行官方的對話就是這麼簡單嘛第二他就是要你怕要你對他不能講任何的壞話否則就對你進行全球追捕終身追溯我本人也是啦我本人也是在名單上面的一個啦所以這個"},{"start":496.175,"end":515.327,"text":"主委我是期待齁這次的我們的預算審查的時候就這個部分能夠有更剛剛有些委員說要有質化的啊量化的指標啊那你就把這些量化的指標到底有多少人來申請多少人是因為他們不來的等等的如果可以提出一些更具體的數字我覺得可以更促進國人了解我們現在真實的困境謝謝委員好我們全力以赴也感謝委員剛剛對這個案子的非常"},{"start":526.388,"end":529.714,"text":"週前的這種說明我們就一起加油謝謝蘇巧惠委員的質詢"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}