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翁启慧到廖俊之院长大概都是五十来岁就接任了所以我们是不是原本也有这个年轻化的打算这个在院长"},{"start":174.69,"end":201.611,"text":"我想这个我们并没有对院长的年龄做任何规划OK 我了解就是说年龄它并不是一个什么样的要件只是我看到过去这个院长年龄似乎有年轻化了那当然我们也会在想说因为这个前副总统因为他现在75岁如果接任任期结束应该差不多就80那对于年轻化这件事情会不会有一些跟我们的本来的想法或规划"},{"start":202.431,"end":222.53,"text":"那這個有一些比較矛盾的地方這個你們自己去想一想但是有一點我想我提醒一下我想就不要換了就是剛剛提到說公開的資訊都一定是公平的但我跟你講本席以及大家最擔心就是不公開的資訊造成不公平這一點我想希望務必要去注意"},{"start":223.231,"end":246.861,"text":"那接下來呢 我們來談到這個院長 我們這個賴清德總統在11月11號頒發了總統科學獎的時候他也宣布要啟動333計畫就是希望在未來的30年內讓台灣在物理 化學 醫學三大領域當中至少增加三個就新增三個諾貝爾這個得主 這個您知道吧"},{"start":247.841,"end":271.75,"text":"是的好那我记得其实今年的四月份的时候我其实针对这个国客会的吴承文主委他当时批评说台湾的这个学界没有诺贝尔奖得主真是丢脸当时我有用这个质询您的看法那院长您可能忘了您怎么回答我想我把那原话让你知道一下您说客观条件确实是很困难的要有很好的条件"},{"start":272.15,"end":297.097,"text":"去吸引人才包括薪水包括给他们机会最重要的是要全民要善待这个研究人员并且不要受政治干预要鼓励他们要有企图心这些都您说的嘛对不对好那过了半年赖总统现在马上宣布说30年内要增加三名台湾诺贝尔奖的得主院长我们现在在您口中所的这些客观的条件目前有变好吗这个目标你觉得可以达成吗"},{"start":298.178,"end":318.159,"text":"还要非常努力我想要达成这个目标至少要做到四件事情第一我们要长期稳定的基础科学的经费的投入很好第二个要鼓励尝试不论是制度做法要鼓励做不同的方向"},{"start":319.195,"end":345.965,"text":"第三个要容许失败我们不可能说每一件事情都做成功的第四个要减少外界的干扰让这些研究员能够专心做研究我觉得这四个都很棒我本心认同但我们再来看一看您一定有听到清大原子科学院的院长叶忠光教授是不是他说了一个说"},{"start":347.526,"end":362.841,"text":"他认为这个说法是极度浩高物远的说法为什么因为执政党把研发经费都投到半导体的产业导致基础科学研究偏废基础科学哪一些呢正是现在我们关切的物理化学医学这些都是"},{"start":362.841,"end":392.461,"text":"是基础科学也就像您刚刚所说的这个做法如果没有改变我们没有投入刚刚您所说的四点当中其中一个的经费下来我想要培养不是您说的非常困难我觉得他说的好高骛远这件事情我反而更赞同所以我想院长针对您刚刚所说的这四点事实上您既然知道这四点是重要的我觉得恐怕不管是在给相关单位行政院总统的建言上面我想您这个临别也要把好的建议留下来可以做到吗"},{"start":394.422,"end":409.848,"text":"我尽量尽量吗是的你要尽全力啊不能尽量啊尽全力还是不好讲就你心里知道这样但又不好讲这个建议不好讲尽所有的量可以可以这样是可以的那所以我想啊"},{"start":410.168,"end":424.665,"text":"我們都希望從我們李遠哲教授在1986年獲得諾貝爾這個化學獎之後已經差不多要40年了台灣一直都沒有這樣的好消息傳出反觀日本我們看到日本真的是旅船捷報"},{"start":425.546,"end":451.486,"text":"就說他們在這方面投入不管是各方面的環境 資源 經費恐怕要比台灣來得多所以有時候該借鏡也要去借鏡這個提供給您一下那最後一個議題上週不知道您有沒有注意到有一場全球視野下的中國抗戰國際學術研討會在北京大學舉行這個您有注意到嗎好像報上看過這樣子的消息"},{"start":452.526,"end":455.751,"text":"也是要注意一下吧還是現在對岸的事情通通不敢注意"},{"start":457.538,"end":482.395,"text":"當然會注意會注意嗎 對所以這件事知道嗎 好與會的演員當中包含了一位中研院的前研究員名字我如果沒有弄錯他叫呂方尚 對不對然後呢這個研究員在受訪的時候強調政治不應干涉學術研究唯有兩岸學者持續交流才能真正理解彼此還原歷史真相院長同意這樣的說法嗎"},{"start":482.955,"end":506.961,"text":"这是大致上是同意的但是政治干预来自各方向所以我们是绝对赞成无条件的学术自由好所以这方向我们是赞成的很赞成OK好那但是行政院现在规定在明年的7月1号开始中研院的研究员副研究员助理研究员和助理等等几乎是全部了如果要复入"},{"start":507.501,"end":535.541,"text":"必须向内政部申请然后得到许可以后才可以去那我们刚才在讨论诺贝尔这个奖的时候院长有说也不希望政治干预这个研究所以在这件事情上面会不会认为这项附录许可制是违反学术自由这样的规范你觉得合理吗那看是怎么合准法假如是合准报备假如学术据我了解只要是学术性的都不会有问题"},{"start":537.883,"end":550.98,"text":"所以办法你还没有看到还没有看到所以你也不知道它会怎么规范或限制是的据我了解那这个许可会是这个申请当然你们申请那这个许可谁来许可许可条件又是什么"},{"start":551.46,"end":570.066,"text":"你知道吗我没有很清楚所以我们在意的是学术性的只要学术性据我了解当然所以院长不会有任何限制您在意的是学术性而且是要完全全学术性政治不要来干预所以我也提醒您您可能要去了解一下说我们会去申请但是它怎么许可"},{"start":570.666,"end":587.962,"text":"办法是什么有哪些限制恐怕你现在都应该要去了解为什么你看我翻开中研院115年的预算你们也编了预算要派员赴大陆这个计划的项目多达76项预算的时候我们可以来讨论所以可见你觉得有相当的必要"},{"start":588.362,"end":616.641,"text":"但这76项如果现在我们已经都把计划跟预算都送到委员会要来审查了那结果我们不知道到底我们自己在审核跟申请的时候许可的标准是什么我觉得也会干扰到你的计划所以这个必须要去了解所以我想院长我想干扰是两方面都有所以我想大家知道说这个大陆的现在的状况所以很多时候我们是面临不同的"},{"start":618.662,"end":636.112,"text":"欸 那這 我再問一個喔所以你現在說兩方面都有干擾所以說兩方面都有干擾學術就對岸也有干擾學術的交流喔 那我想很早以前因為你剛剛說兩方面都有干擾是 很早以前這個大陸的學者來台灣就需要簽署很多的多早以前"},{"start":636.963,"end":665.721,"text":"至少十年了吧对 现在在讲的就是这个交流啊你现在提出来说你们要去交流嘛那我们在讲的是说内政部啊现在说变你要申请要许可可不是你有计划你就可以去了嘛那后来你说现在两岸都有干扰所以就是说我们提这个计划其实对方也不见得会让你去是这样子吗详细我不了解我没有数字你刚刚这样讲但是那确实也有可能啊确实是有可能确实有可能那你编那个你编那个计划编这个预算在编辛酸的哦"},{"start":667.011,"end":685.909,"text":"我们不可能说得到许可在那边预算啊不是那没有预算也没办法申请院长 这预算是要跟你好好讨论你现在说我要去对岸交流那你要去交流结果我们这边说要严格审查第一个你这边可能要知道一下它是怎么审查怎么许可"},{"start":686.269,"end":709.167,"text":"但你今天竟然爆出来说对岸其实也是干扰的那我不懂我们这边其实也要审查许可还有一些限制对岸也要干扰你那你为什么你要去交流什么你这76项计划要去交流什么委员不好意思我们人事事主任这边跟委员说明一下不用不用因为时间已经超过院长你说明一下"},{"start":710.725,"end":723.884,"text":"我們是希望這是純學術的當然我們不可能說是一切都辦妥再來申請計畫那又是幾年之後那你是怎麼知道對岸現在有干擾的"},{"start":724.855,"end":752.214,"text":"你什么时候知道对岸有干扰有干扰是委员讲的干扰是委员讲的哦不是咯我们把它放出来看看好不好我没有讲到干扰我说现在呢你们编了这样的计划编了这样的预算要去交流但是呢我们现在有一个附录许可制要经过内政部然后要许可我要您去了解这个许可的办法可能会是什么那这个许可办法会不会造成你的困扰"},{"start":752.734,"end":777.643,"text":"那後來是你跟我說 干擾是兩岸都有嘛 是不是那我剛剛講的意思是說 你知道嗎當我們計畫都出來了 可是呢萬一這76項 這個內政部都有意見行政院都有意見 那會不會對於我們在做計畫其實是一種干擾我講的是這樣 就你說兩岸都會干擾那我不理解對岸怎麼干擾你們院長請您回答一下 院長請您回答一下我沒有請您發言 對不起"},{"start":779.81,"end":808.368,"text":"我想很多我们想要的学术的活动在两方面都会被要求做一些我们譬如说我们在发表论文的时候常常就被要求没有 我们在讲交流我们现在在讲人的交流交流最终是要发表论文交流不是文光不是 院长交流最后是要发表论文我想我这边不要再耽搁主席的时间但我必须要跟您提如果"},{"start":809.309,"end":834.256,"text":"按照您今天所说的对于我们中研院要跟对岸去对岸做交流这件事情是有受到干扰的事实上我们在审查预算的时候可能会成为我们所有委员在看这个预算可不可以给中研院一个非常大的指标最简单的说法就是我们是不是可以以中央研究院的名义出访"},{"start":835.509,"end":864.727,"text":"那假如不行的話我不曉得這是委員認為是干擾還是不是干擾假如我們不能以我們正確的機構名稱跟國家名稱發表論文的話我不曉得委員認為這是干擾很好啊我覺得您講得非常好啊我還是非常贊同您啊所以其實我們到了預算的時候我們就來看你這每一項計畫有沒有可能按照您之前所說的順利出發那如果不行那預算其實就到時候不要又說藍白山預算了是不是"},{"start":865.527,"end":881.577,"text":"你同意嗎不同意 也不同意因為你只要沒有這個預算就完全沒辦法計程沒辦法開啟我跟你講哪有這種說法啦如果你自己現在都沒有一點把握你現在自己至少計劃出來你都要有個三五分的把握"},{"start":881.997,"end":898.758,"text":"知道这是可能可执行的如果你认为这个都是不可执行的都有这样的问题都有这样的干扰那你把这个预算编出来什么意思呢对不对所以院长我必须要跟你讲啦我觉得不必在现在的这个时间点你再来做这样的一个争执没有意义哦"},{"start":899.198,"end":918.769,"text":"您自己剛所說的您剛才所說的這四點您剛所說的四點包括您自己本身已經帶領了整個中研院學術就是要在學術學術要非常的獨立學術非常的自由發展不要去受政治的干預您要永遠把話講出來以後記在心中可以嗎"},{"start":920.046,"end":935.804,"text":"我一向是如此希望后面还要保持也是这样委员刚才提的三到五分的把握我们也会记在心中我们确实有三到五分的把握院长我们对中研院一向都非常的支持整个教育文化委员会也都非常的支持我们非常感谢但是呢"},{"start":936.724,"end":960.119,"text":"針對剛才我本席所提出來的質詢提醒你們可能遇到的困難或者是會打擊到大家這麼辛苦提出來的計畫那不管是什麼樣的困擾你都應該要去注意到去排除掉這是應該做的吧是我希望說到也要做到這樣好不好謝謝好 謝謝望美玲委員質詢大家可以看到政治的"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}