{"error":false,"id":["165377"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":165377,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165377","日期":"2025-11-13","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-4-26-10","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第10次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":4,"會次":10,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[26],"委員會代碼:str":["社會福利及衛生環境委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第10次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2025-11-13T10:32:16+08:00","結束時間":"2025-11-13T10:46:03+08:00","影片長度":"00:13:47","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fffa2c65c610face95de04c84f6d2ebb8ff38efa2589ba08999b3dda73827680f61d29bd310f8b835ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王育敏","委員發言時間":"10:32:16 - 10:46:03","會議時間":"2025-11-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：邀請衛生福利部部長及行政院主計總處就「癌症新藥暫時性支付及罕見疾病藥物專款預算運用成效及政策檢討」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n\n(討論事項)\n審查\n一、委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「癌症防治法第十三條及第十六條條文修正草案」案。\n二、委員陳菁徽等16人擬具「癌症防治法第十六條條文修正草案」案。\n三、委員邱鎮軍等19人擬具「癌症防治法第五條及第十六條條文修正草案」案。\n四、委員劉建國等17人擬具「癌症防治法第十六條條文修正草案」案。\n五、委員王正旭等17人擬具「癌症防治法第十六條條文修正草案」案。\n六、委員顏寬恒等21人擬具「癌症防治法第十三條條文修正草案」案。\n七、委員林淑芬等20人擬具「癌症防治法第十六條條文修正草案」案。\n八、委員盧縣一等17人擬具「癌症防治法第八條及第十六條條文修正草案」案。\n九、委員顏寬恒等24人擬具「癌症防治法第十六條條文修正草案」案。\n十、委員蘇巧慧等30人擬具「癌症防治法修正草案」案。\n十一、委員林月琴等16人擬具「癌症防治法第十六條條文修正草案」案。\n十二、委員邱議瑩等16人擬具「癌症防治法第十六條條文修正草案」案。\n十三、委員羅智強等18人擬具「癌症防治法第十六條條文修正草案」案。\n十四、台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「癌症防治法第一條、第十三條及第十六條條文修正草案」案。\n十五、委員陳亭妃等17人擬具「癌症防治法第十六條條文修正草案」案。\n十六、委員黃秀芳等21人擬具「癌症防治法第十六條條文修正草案」案。\n十七、委員馬文君等16人擬具「癌症防治法第十六條條文修正草案」案。\n【專題報告及討論事項綜合詢答；討論事項僅詢答】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.03096875,"end":0.79034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3.5915937500000004,"end":6.021593750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6.156593750000001,"end":6.83159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10.712843750000001,"end":11.438468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11.77596875,"end":17.69909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":18.05346875,"end":41.15534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":41.45909375,"end":51.955343750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":52.360343750000006,"end":53.33909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":54.165968750000005,"end":60.32534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":60.54471875,"end":72.82971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":71.02409375,"end":75.14159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":75.39471875000001,"end":82.17846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":79.95096875,"end":80.33909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":81.65534375,"end":84.30471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":84.08534375,"end":88.82721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":85.38471875,"end":86.16096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":88.10159375,"end":90.68346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":90.88596875,"end":91.52721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":91.88159375000001,"end":97.63596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":98.34471875000001,"end":106.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":106.76534375,"end":108.48659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":109.06034375,"end":109.58346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":110.32596875,"end":123.11721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":123.25221875000001,"end":130.94721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":132.29721875,"end":133.24221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":133.46159375000002,"end":135.21659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":135.45284375,"end":140.32971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":135.77346875,"end":137.32596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":139.46909375,"end":144.21096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":142.20284375,"end":158.55471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":149.44221875000002,"end":150.08346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":151.66971875000002,"end":189.36846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":160.47846875000002,"end":160.96784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":162.48659375,"end":162.87471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":162.87471875,"end":162.90846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":165.40596875,"end":165.55784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":186.98909375000002,"end":187.05659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":189.45284375,"end":208.90971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":208.38659375,"end":218.98409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":210.51284375,"end":211.66034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":217.90409375000002,"end":232.12971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":221.98784375000002,"end":223.45596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":224.01284375,"end":224.04659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":224.04659375000003,"end":224.51909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":224.51909375000002,"end":224.62034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":232.70346875,"end":245.86596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":246.37221875,"end":256.02471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":252.12659375,"end":252.22784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":255.34971875000002,"end":255.78846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":256.39596875,"end":257.00346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":257.00346875,"end":257.02034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":257.42534375,"end":257.71221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":258.50534375,"end":265.01909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":262.03221875,"end":262.09971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":262.09971875,"end":262.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":263.43284375,"end":305.13096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":305.46846875,"end":313.45034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":314.41221875,"end":330.12284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":325.43159375000005,"end":326.88284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":327.03471875,"end":329.26221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":330.22409375,"end":333.88596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我們有請部長王委員好"},{"start":11.806,"end":40.802,"text":"部長好 部長這個是你上任之後遇到第二件的這個史安事件那這個分譜擬彈從11月4號這個就被驗出來了一直到11月9號你們發了一個新聞稿11月10號衛福部才對外開了一個記者會讓消費者知道說這一個要去注意家裡冰箱你買到的是I47這樣的一個號碼就不要吃"},{"start":41.562,"end":59.741,"text":"你認為你們整個的處理從11月4號驗出來到11月10號才正式的開記者會讓所有的民眾都知道消費者無辜多了幾天把毒雞蛋吃下肚你們這樣的做法有沒有檢討的空間要不要檢討"},{"start":60.818,"end":74.433,"text":"跟委員報告我們這個就如同這個手板上面所呈現的是每一個步驟都很積極的在進行每一天都有進度所以他是先從你說你很積極所以沒有改進的空間100分"},{"start":75.874,"end":97.376,"text":"不敢說100分因為畢竟還是有國人吃下去的我們都覺得不安心所以公佈的速度有沒有調整的空間有空間要改善對我們會去這個檢討我現在就告訴你應該怎麼改善第一個你們11月7號就已經要求通路停止販售了為什麼沒有同步"},{"start":98.397,"end":107.757,"text":"就是告訴大家而且當你11月7號同時要通知通路的時候為什麼你不開記者會不告訴大家就默默低調進行"},{"start":109.11,"end":130.667,"text":"是為什麼這不是應該要趕快讓消費者知道嗎因為今天除了通路下架完之外很多消費者是之前就買回來放在冰箱每天吃一顆早上吃一顆水煮蛋好健康你如果越早講他在冰箱裡面的雞蛋他可以拿出來對號碼然後不用吃下毒不是嗎"},{"start":132.412,"end":149.107,"text":"這個要不要改進要不要改進 告訴我就好好 以後要求你們改進這個是消費者之的權利未來的話我們就是查到哪裡公佈到哪裡當然我們也要考慮到不要讓民眾恐慌"},{"start":150.067,"end":177.383,"text":"會影響到整個所有的合法的這不是恐慌的問題是你怎麼公告的問題你可以告訴消費大眾說我現在已經查到一批那個批號是什麼民眾現在如果有疑慮你可以選擇暫停使用但民眾有知的權利他自行去判斷他要不要繼續使用嘛那你們這一次我覺得做錯的地方就是你們沒有充分告知讓民眾提早知道"},{"start":178.143,"end":206.721,"text":"在日本在韓國他們都是採用最快的速度因為消費者有資格權利啊而且他們發布的方式韓國他還用緊急通訊系統在你的手機裡面馬上就看到韓國他們的這個系統緊急災難警報系統是很厲害的馬上就會看到說什麼貨號什麼時候這一批貨品廣為周知告知消費者這個是我覺得在這次食安事件處理的時候衛福部應該還要再改進的地方這是第一點"},{"start":207.702,"end":229.84,"text":"那第二點是這一點我認同這個委員的看法所以就是我們要精準不要傷及無辜那在精準的資訊下那麼儘快的揭露讓消費者你不是說所有雞蛋不能吃而是你告訴他哪一個批號有問題哪一個蛋場對不對好那這一個我要求你們日後改進第二個是我們要料底從寬預底從嚴"},{"start":232.782,"end":255.588,"text":"那在這一次你發現這一個批號有問題之後為什麼沒有擴大再去抽驗市場上面的散彈你們有沒有抽跟委員報告就是說這一個例行性的今年度大概是查了461批那這461批裡面就包含了散彈有幾件"},{"start":258.509,"end":262.471,"text":"我接下來要追問的就是署長有對外明確的擔保說這一次的珍普尼彈 液彈是完全沒有問題的"},{"start":275.598,"end":304.557,"text":"我接下來要問的就是說署長你為什麼敢掛保證就是因為這一個蛋廠的所有的蛋他通通都是上了這個超市通路嗎沒有留到散裝蛋嗎沒有是整批的出去嗎那如果我們現在的管理我們現在只能追蹤到超市的進到市場的他其實是整批整籃子的蛋買回去就是你真的可以百分之百保證"},{"start":305.578,"end":333.524,"text":"沒有任何的早餐店沒有任何的其他的小吃單是買到這一家這一個畜牧場的蛋嗎這邊跟委員做一點點補充說明那這部分我們後來想辦法趕快修正所以我們把一些這個蛋散蛋上面每個框上面都有他的QR code我知道有QR code我現在在問你的問題是你怎麼知道這些蛋沒有流通到其他的市場小吃點"},{"start":335,"end":354.992,"text":"你敢掛保證 你說沒有其他的液彈有問題你會不會話講太快了 署長報告委員 我們那時候呢其實我們的資訊裡面這家彈廠裡面沒有特別提供所謂液彈的處理的因為液彈有時候會但他有提供散彈啊對 他有提供散彈這部分那散彈後續的追蹤你怎麼確保他沒有進到其他的液彈市場呢"},{"start":356.253,"end":376.238,"text":"除非你今天是已經有反向去所有的這個液氮廠去追查反向追查有沒有來源是來自這一家的畜牧廠有嗎也沒有嗎所以這樣的保證是沒有意義的這個署長我也是要提醒你就是說你我發現你現在對外回應有些話都講得太滿太快"},{"start":377.748,"end":389.465,"text":"就是你可能擔負不起這樣的一個保證因為到目前為止坦白講你們能保證使用分譜你的只有彰化的這一家蛋廠嗎"},{"start":390.922,"end":412.455,"text":"你們敢保證嗎 部長 署長你們敢保證嗎報告委員這部分其實已經啟動跨部會了所以農政單位的針對蛋廠裡面的一些用藥的他們其實積極的啟動了農盟也會跟他們一起協作對啊 他現在才要去查而已但是你的保證已經掛在前面了而且前面話還講太快說我們不需要再去查其他的地方"},{"start":414.142,"end":441.83,"text":"處理危機不是這樣子處理的所謂預敵重演就是我從這個單一的案場發現了這樣的情況之後我除了我的畜牧場我要開始啟動其他的畜牧場一樣加嚴的處理之外韓國當時爆發分譜就是這樣我全部都查查完一遍讓國人安心因為我們不放心是不是只有這單一牧場違法使用如果按照很多這種資深的基農還有動保團體他們指出來的"},{"start":443.618,"end":471.427,"text":"分譜你還有人偷偷在用啊那偷偷在用真的只有這單一的廠嗎因為主要是他防治這個機師的效果他的效果特別好又比較便宜這個就是重點了那如果你不敢保證的時候我覺得我建議官方在說法上面不要太過於自滿你講到百分之百萬一不是呢萬一這普查下去還有另外一家廠有的時候你的保證"},{"start":472.959,"end":492.935,"text":"變成完全沒有意義所以我覺得應該是實事求是吧 欲敵從嚴吧你們今天農業部沒有來我希望你們回去在那個會議裡面我們要求的是農業部你應該即刻就要展開很快速的再去清查一遍比照2017年的芬普尼事件你這樣才能讓國人安心嘛"},{"start":493.615,"end":516.222,"text":"他如果源頭沒有問題你後端市場你目前查驗的你才可以說因為源頭沒有問題我們查到沒有問題到目前為止才能定調是單一事件但你通通都還沒有做以前就先宣告這只是單一事件這都是錯誤的就像農業部部長他對外說這是環境污染可是隔壁的農田飄過來了是嗎現在查出來"},{"start":517.322,"end":540.115,"text":"就是有噴灑嗎就是這麼高的一個濃度就是有噴灑所以我要求的就是你們要預底重演預底重演還有一項是你們食藥署可以做除了源頭是農業部該做的預底重演還有你們該做的是什麼就是應該還要再去散彈市場再加鹽再多抽幾個讓大家安心可不可以"},{"start":541.111,"end":560.474,"text":"這邊跟委員說一下報告給一點點就是說針對這樣子的事件我們長期的追蹤事實上是從我知道你長期的追蹤這個話你已經講過很多遍了但是署長我提醒你因為現在就是爆發了驗到了嘛當你驗到的時候所謂預計重演就是你不要以為只有這單一"},{"start":561.815,"end":582.638,"text":"他可能市場上面可能還有所以你的密度再加強再多高密度的稽查你這也是讓大家放心啊就是說宣示你食藥署的行動啊就是我展開播出了要求農業部源頭你要把關好之外後端市場你在加密加嚴在這一陣子多查幾個查出來也是沒有"},{"start":583.599,"end":613.039,"text":"大家消費者就覺得很安心會更相信是單一個案在買蛋的時候可以更放心我要講一個為什麼我在建議裡面好你們去研究看看我們現在有這個蘇蘇果的質樸快篩中心有29所我們對於蘇果是高密度的檢驗而且是常態化的檢驗為什麼因為天天都要吃蘇果但是雞蛋呢雞蛋我沒有我們對雞蛋的管理相對是比較鬆散的為什麼因為可能"},{"start":613.719,"end":629.972,"text":"我也不知道為什麼 可是他檢驗的方法是比較困難但是後來這一些蔬果質樸於快檢中心出來之後的確讓國人安心了很多我希望這個署長你很自豪是你是學者學者好好去研議一下怎麼樣這個蛋品的檢驗"},{"start":631.033,"end":655.409,"text":"我們一定都要送到中央續產中心嗎像這樣的一個比對有沒有更好的儀器跟設備我們可以加快就是把它驗出來因為這一次我不曉得是你們的責任還是農業部的責任2019年農業部已經講了驗這個分譜泥之前是拖拖拉拉一個禮拜後來他說要48小時就要驗出來結果這一次又沒有你們是10月27號開始驗對不對"},{"start":657.63,"end":681.938,"text":"送樣本是什麼時候因為他是常態的是彰化幫忙抽完之後送到中央續產會報告直接告訴我們我們就馬上所以花了多少天的時間他們第一波是告訴我們我們回出來的報告是在7天10月27號到10月15號要花7天才能出來嗎第二波其實因為是緊急個案啦前面是常態的嘛還有很多要驗其他的東西所以這次第二波驗他其實在48小時內就符合48小時嗎的確是有"},{"start":683.499,"end":705.481,"text":"好我最後建議的這個比照蔬果質樸開拆中心將蛋品檢驗常態化提高抽驗比例這個讓部長來回答你覺得有沒有可能去研議當然剛剛您提到幾個重點我都蠻認同就是說我們要加強這個風險的溝通啦當然是要讓民眾安心但是我們也要"},{"start":706.181,"end":722.307,"text":"提醒民眾應該注意哪些事情這個是我們會來改善的但是呢要不要擴大抽菸這個事情因為今年這個情況跟2017年的時候已經不同因為2017年之前是沒有這個常態性例行性抽菸"},{"start":723.027,"end":749.267,"text":"那而且在爆發那個事件之後農業部也加強了這個畜牧場的管理然後我們之後每年大概都四五百件一路抽下來所以今年才抽出這一件那當然我們不能夠完全放心啦所以我們現在也配合檢調跟農業部繼續往上再查如果有發現有橫向的情形的時候我們就會再繼續就是查到哪裡我們就驗到哪裡所以我們會持續調整這樣"},{"start":751.368,"end":763.361,"text":"好我希望這邊其實今年就是下半年我們還沒有結束所以我們的計畫持續抽菸還有的我們一定會持續公告給全國人去了解你們可不可以針對龍氏的蛋C的"},{"start":765.22,"end":786.609,"text":"強化他的頻率可以嗎就是我們抽菸的時候就是挑那個蜥蜴的作為重點好不好因為是他的飼養方式他太密集然後比較容易有這個蟲產生然後所以他的用藥的頻率可能就會比較高所以你們調整那個比例好不好針對龍氏的部分"},{"start":787.209,"end":814.155,"text":"提高那個抽氧比例我們需要的食安是真的讓大家可以安心所以我希望這個衛福部你們也責無旁貸特別已經成立了食藥署應該在這一塊態度要更積極而不是用學術化的話語就是來回應吃一百顆雞蛋都沒有關係署長下次不要再講這種事情有關一百顆是有關係的不能這樣吃法對還沒中毒之前就那你怎麼會蹦出這一句呢"},{"start":815.61,"end":819.473,"text":"好啦 以後我提醒你講話不要太滿好不好 謝謝謝謝委員"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}