{"error":false,"id":["165405"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":165405,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165405","日期":"2025-11-13","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-4-15-10","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第4會期內政委員會第10次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":4,"會次":10,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[15],"委員會代碼:str":["內政委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第4會期內政委員會第10次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2025-11-13T10:20:23+08:00","結束時間":"2025-11-13T10:32:07+08:00","影片長度":"00:11:44","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fffa2c65c610face8e98bf75dfcce43d4fb19a1d580694890f406a00a8f97c06aa518cd20a1dc6235ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"許宇甄","委員發言時間":"10:20:23 - 10:32:07","會議時間":"2025-11-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期內政委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：邀請內政部、財政部、數位發展部、金融監督管理委員會、交通部就「普發現金一萬元之跨部會防詐及查緝作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢。【11月12日及13日二天一次會】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3.94596875,"end":8.552843750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9.278468750000002,"end":10.864718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12.88971875,"end":52.20846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":53.541593750000004,"end":57.15284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":56.62971875,"end":67.19346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":57.50721875,"end":57.91221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":67.86846875,"end":76.20471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":75.74909375,"end":86.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":86.02596875,"end":87.20721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":87.47721875,"end":92.16846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":92.16846875,"end":93.34971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":93.43409375,"end":104.01471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":100.72409375000001,"end":102.71534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":103.55909375,"end":122.00346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":104.40284375,"end":105.60096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":122.07096875,"end":125.81721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":126.18846875000001,"end":138.94596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":137.64659375000002,"end":154.60596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":140.24534375000002,"end":142.72596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":144.41346875000002,"end":144.86909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":148.83471875,"end":148.85159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":148.85159375,"end":149.23971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":155.80409375000002,"end":158.23409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":157.59284375000001,"end":159.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":159.90471875,"end":161.42346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":159.97221875,"end":160.36034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":161.81159375000001,"end":166.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":167.09346875,"end":171.05909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":171.05909375000002,"end":171.07596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":171.09284375000001,"end":177.92721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":173.05034375000002,"end":173.91096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":179.20971875,"end":184.30596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":184.67721875,"end":188.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":185.79096875000002,"end":186.38159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":188.57534375,"end":205.45034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":200.33721875,"end":200.55659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":205.46721875,"end":215.00159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":212.41971875000002,"end":213.33096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":214.86659375000002,"end":252.02534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":221.66721875000002,"end":221.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":221.86971875,"end":221.95409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":254.01659375000003,"end":267.78659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":266.79096875,"end":268.63034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":269.40659375,"end":269.84534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":269.89596875,"end":274.72221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":272.91659375,"end":335.74221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":277.30409375,"end":277.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":318.32721875000004,"end":318.78284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":324.38534375,"end":324.46971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":324.48659375,"end":324.63846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":335.97846875000005,"end":344.06159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":344.50034375,"end":355.28346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":357.46034375000005,"end":358.94534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":358.96221875000003,"end":359.02971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":362.97846875000005,"end":363.01221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":363.01221875000005,"end":363.21471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":363.21471875000003,"end":363.40034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":364.64909375,"end":373.76159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":372.02346875,"end":372.63096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":373.08659375,"end":376.51221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":376.51221875000005,"end":381.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":381.79409375,"end":389.96159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":388.89846875,"end":399.12471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":399.85034375000004,"end":400.33971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":400.47471875,"end":400.77846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":400.72784375000003,"end":405.19971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":406.24596875000003,"end":411.03846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":409.85721875,"end":416.18534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":415.69596875,"end":424.75784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":416.50596875,"end":416.97846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":422.88471875000005,"end":425.90534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":425.02784375000005,"end":450.01971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":433.19534375,"end":433.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":433.97159375,"end":434.98409375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":435.40596875000006,"end":435.99659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":451.31909375000004,"end":465.98346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":458.65971875,"end":459.03096875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":459.31784375,"end":459.33471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":459.33471875000004,"end":459.52034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":459.58784375000005,"end":459.60471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":459.62159375000005,"end":459.68909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":466.15221875000003,"end":492.79784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":472.93596875000003,"end":475.31534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":477.66096875000005,"end":480.25971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":480.69846875,"end":480.85034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":483.36471875,"end":483.98909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":493.06784375,"end":520.5065937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":521.43471875,"end":522.43034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":522.8015937499999,"end":523.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":523.7465937500001,"end":534.4622187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":532.9097187500001,"end":540.7565937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":535.9978437500001,"end":536.31846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":540.03096875,"end":540.55409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":540.7565937500001,"end":541.1615937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":540.7734687500001,"end":540.7903437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":541.1615937500001,"end":544.19909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":544.65471875,"end":553.21034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":547.62471875,"end":549.98721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":553.21034375,"end":569.7140937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":558.6103437500001,"end":558.82971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":570.0178437500001,"end":575.72159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":576.14346875,"end":577.24034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":577.4934687500001,"end":584.5303437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":583.73721875,"end":585.7790937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":585.7790937500001,"end":590.6897187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":590.0147187499999,"end":593.8959687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":594.67221875,"end":601.33784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":599.44784375,"end":606.0290937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":606.48471875,"end":609.8259687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":610.04534375,"end":614.0109687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":614.2978437500001,"end":620.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":620.2040937500001,"end":638.86784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":639.6609687499999,"end":646.1240937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":646.3772187500001,"end":649.70159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":650.3428437499999,"end":655.2365937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":654.0047187499999,"end":655.16909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":655.2365937500001,"end":659.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":655.4897187500001,"end":655.9284687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":660.38346875,"end":665.41221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":660.4172187500001,"end":660.77159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":662.32409375,"end":663.16784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":665.2434687500001,"end":671.92596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":668.8715937500001,"end":674.87909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":673.3772187500001,"end":673.6809687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":675.0984687499999,"end":682.4053437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":680.9709687500001,"end":691.46721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":692.6484687500001,"end":693.13784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":692.74971875,"end":695.36534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":695.36534375,"end":701.3390937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":700.05659375,"end":701.2547187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":701.96346875,"end":702.01409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":704.0390937500001,"end":704.25846875}],"whisperx":[{"start":4.473,"end":30.973,"text":"謝謝主席 我們請內政部吳次長跟警政署李副署長請吳次長還有李副署長委員好次長好 以及我們的副署長好我想這一次我們普發現金一萬塊我們的原意是要還稅於民也讓全民共享經濟的一個成果但是呢這份善意現在卻變成這個詐騙集團的這個新手法"},{"start":31.713,"end":45.648,"text":"所以政府一再的高喊要全民市長那內政部的報告我剛看了一下也是有自誇我們在宣導影片跟曝光的這個圖卡大概高達4597萬次請問一下這是觸及人數還是一直不斷的重複曝光"},{"start":53.704,"end":82.695,"text":"這是我們重複播放的一個次數所以這個4597次呢真正看到的有多少人看到的有多少次其實我們也沒有也沒有做一個這樣的一個數據嗎因為現在這樣的一個播放的方式我們並沒有去統計所謂點閱或觸及的所以變成說你們也不會針對長者或是偏鄉的一個民眾的一些高風險群去做"},{"start":83.611,"end":107.863,"text":"這個後撤或者一些滿意度的調查是嗎 顧委員報告我們的宣導呢本來就採分眾分齡的方式在做宣導那請問有量化嗎 量化就這個宣導量化的部分這個資料是比較細微的我們可能要再統計一下但是我們是貫徹整個族群所以表示目前你們有量化嗎你不曉得說到底我們這樣子的一些"},{"start":108.623,"end":133.091,"text":"廣告試詐的廣告下去之後到底有什麼樣的成效我們現在看到都是一些數字那我們做了什麼我們做了什麼做了什麼但是實際上的成效是什麼目前警政署這邊是沒有任何的報告嗎根本報告我們就是看整個詐欺犯罪他大幅的他有沒有下降那剛剛也有委員問到我們目前在案件的部分"},{"start":133.846,"end":154.364,"text":"是下降了大概三成然後在這個財損的部分這個是真的有下降還是說沒有統計到這當然有下降我覺得這個部分我們必須要去了解清楚尤其是像我們剛剛講了這麼多的市詐的一個宣傳作為那目前為止請問一下知道說哪一種市詐的這個作為方式最有效"},{"start":156.351,"end":184.089,"text":"視察的部分因為剛剛我們有提了各種方式嘛次長在報告的時候跟我們報告了其實每一個管道都有它特定的受造那目前在看的話電視是一個比較有效的方式當然因為電視成本高嘛那所以你們真正投注在電視的經費大概佔多少百分比大概佔多少目前我們在電視的部分投入的預算大概是1.5億每一年"},{"start":184.724,"end":187.585,"text":"一年1.5億那這一次針對這一次的這個呢那個我們的這個普發現金的房價有沒有特別在因為其實我們在我們的這次的這個普發現金的特別條例裡面你們也有編列媒體宣傳的費用我們也都沒有刪所以這個部分應該是針對普發現金的部分應該有特別的媒體宣傳的費用才有我們這次在電視媒體的部分大概有特別拍了一支影片"},{"start":211.614,"end":237.652,"text":"在電視的部分網路大概是16支拍影片跟最後我剛講的就是它的KPI是什麼我覺得警政署必須要去量化這樣的一個數據出來你才能夠知道未來我要用什麼樣的宣傳方式才是最有效的否則的話我們只是把錢撒出去做了一些影片做了一些廣告到底有沒有針對被詐騙的人有真的幫助跟感受尤其是像我們知道最近有很多的釣魚簡訊"},{"start":239.333,"end":248.495,"text":"告訴你說你連結到哪個網站所以你可以事實上造成很多的這樣子的人被詐騙那請問一下我們這個署理或是我們內政部有沒有針對簡訊這個部分來投放呢目前我們對於這樣的詐騙簡訊的處理方式如果是這個電話簡訊的部分我們大概都拜託這個NCC在做進一步的處理那NCC有嗎"},{"start":270.952,"end":293.766,"text":"他今天有代表另外如果是網路的部分因為我們目前看到的其實都是釣魚網站的簡訊我們自己政府並沒有這樣的一個簡訊那我要表達就是說如果我們自己有簡訊先通知我們所有的這個民眾大家他看到詐騙的時候他就會有所警惕了因為你已經先看到正確的嘛那看到詐騙你就會有所警惕"},{"start":294.451,"end":303.822,"text":"那所以這個部分是不是也要考慮一下未來針對這樣的一個簡訊通知我們的全民我覺得這是最快也最有效的一個方式而且可以普及到全民"},{"start":304.209,"end":328.257,"text":"那當然你說分眾分眾那個我不反對那也是可以另外再做但是我覺得簡訊這一塊事實上也可以讓一些尤其一些年紀比較長的或是一些偏鄉的他事實上還是接得到簡訊他還是可以看得到那另外針對這個部分就是我們在165的這個打造儀表版普發現金有一個防詐專區那剛剛次長也特別提到了就是說我們普發現金的成果"},{"start":328.993,"end":355.056,"text":"但是我發覺這是我在10月30號所結錄下來的一個不發現金的成果請次長看一下跟你剛剛報告到10月11月10號的成果一模一樣數字都沒有改那請問到底是這10來天都沒有發生這樣子這個被詐騙被這個平台的通報下架平台廣告或者是停權的還是說你們資料沒有更新"},{"start":357.489,"end":357.509,"text":"好"},{"start":365.287,"end":386.192,"text":"這邊向委員報告這個因為這個我們每週都會請各縣市回報我們這個移除下架件數那這邊這樣已經不只一週啊已經大概快兩週了那我們這邊其實最新統計的話是下架56件還是沒有變那社群帳號的部分目前的話我們最新統計就從上禮拜五這邊統計的話是"},{"start":388.913,"end":404.99,"text":"60個帳號好那你看看喔你們的報告是自本年9月12號起到11月10號值是這個數字喔這個涉嫌詐欺的帳號是50個對吧所以說表示你們在給我們內政委員會的報告裡就是造假啦"},{"start":406.291,"end":432.337,"text":"那為什麼沒有 為什麼沒有更新既然你做這樣的更新不是要讓大家知道成果嗎這個統計的時間有一個落差啦我想這個我們再更新就好對啊 你不是 你現在11月10號嘛對 我的意思是說由小見大啦連這個地方你們都做這樣子沒有馬上更新到對 沒有馬上更新到代表說其他要做這個詐騙的防治或是試詐一定都還有很多的地方需要改進的啦"},{"start":433.299,"end":449.479,"text":"是不是整個人針對次長就是詐騙其實大家都非常痛恨的而且現在有深受其害那我覺得我們內政部真的一定要用這樣的一個方式來去處理好嗎那最後再一個問題請教金管會的王允忠副局長那次長您可以次長沒關係您可以請回"},{"start":452.066,"end":467.443,"text":"委員是不是容我補充一下剛剛委員特別垂行到我們謹慎署有沒有透過簡訊的方式來進行防詐剛剛業務單位提供來了我們今年大概花了1.2億通的簡訊的防詐那表示我們都沒有詐騙集團厲害為什麼"},{"start":469.105,"end":475.109,"text":"我們的簡訊防詐的效果好像沒有詐騙集團的效果這個我覺得之後可能要評估一下啦到底問題出在哪我們會再做進階的一個評估時間我問一下這個金管會的副局長就是針對這個太子集團的這個洗錢超過是屬意這個事情那其實我們一般啦到那個現在只要你去銀行領個錢幾十萬大概就會被銀行"},{"start":496.983,"end":516.795,"text":"問這是不是你你自己本人要你有沒有被詐騙大概要程序非常的繁複即使我領我自己戶頭的錢但是為什麼這個太子集團啊他這樣子動輒就是幾十億幾這個幾億的都沒有關係那是銀行在睡覺嗎尤其是這一次是金管會說你們已經通報52次的那為什麼52次來都沒有做精檢跟委員報告"},{"start":523.874,"end":533.798,"text":"那銀行是在一定的金額的通報50萬以上他就會通報這個調查局那另外如果發現有異常樣態那這樣子沒有異常嗎就是這幾年來有45億的詐騙在台灣洗錢這樣沒有異常你們也通報52次了不是嗎對那52次你們都沒有啟動經檢嗎"},{"start":545.064,"end":569.366,"text":"中間當然是會有一些精檢啦有嗎 你這邊看起來是沒有做精檢啦不是針對這個專案不是針對這個專案去做精檢表示說你們都已經通報52次了結果也沒做精檢然後結果現在是美國一通知你們就馬上下去做精檢所以到底現在我們是怎樣是只要美國說我們才會做那我們自己的國家主權在哪裡那還有我們的這個金管會的職責到底在哪裡"},{"start":570.869,"end":593.476,"text":"是跟委員報告因為他這個集團他的公司很多那所以每一個關聯戶都不太一樣那所以就比較難去歸戶來做一個這個那比較難所以就不做是嗎我們做的是一般的精檢但是沒有做的是針對這一個案件經過這一次那你們覺得你們做的一般精檢有用嗎"},{"start":594.964,"end":615.002,"text":"我們至少可以回頭去檢視一下我們銀行做的有沒有那你知道這樣已經造成多少人被詐騙嗎台灣已經變成一個詐騙集團的洗錢天堂那這樣子我們還說我們回過頭去看看有沒有什麼問題那我覺得金管會作為這樣子的一個主管金管是非常失職的非常沒有擔當"},{"start":616.004,"end":635.227,"text":"你現在把它推給銀行事實上銀行通報你說合法合規但是呢事實上我們就是被詐騙而且還是被美國發現通知我們的所以這到底是什麼樣的問題喔而且我覺得這個我們的這個金管會的這個實質的失能已經造成我們台灣這個詐騙集團的橫行洗錢的橫行這個絕對不是這麼簡單說我們之後檢討一下那請問金管會這邊你們有沒有全力要求銀行啟動更嚴格的加強"},{"start":644.485,"end":661.606,"text":"禁止審查的EDD或者是主動限制相關帳戶的交易額度跟委員報告那事實上現在一直都這麼做的都一直做對 根據那但是還是還是被詐騙了45億在台灣那所以到底做的是"},{"start":662.393,"end":669.419,"text":"是還不到位還是說我們的法律還不夠嚴謹那個451不是被詐騙是他境外匯進來的錢然後他拿去買的對啊那這些錢是什麼是詐騙而來的錢吧這些錢是怎麼樣的因為是調查局他們在司法檢調機關在調查的總之這一件事情我覺得金管會真的要好好的去檢討到底要怎麼樣來去防範這樣的事情而不是說這種雲淡風輕的都不關你們的事"},{"start":692.711,"end":700.942,"text":"可以嗎是好我們會檢討是不是也針對這個部分你們之後要怎麼做是不是一個月之內給我一個報告好嗎是好謝謝好"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}