{"error":false,"id":["165426"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":165426,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165426","日期":"2025-11-13","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-4-23-6","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第4會期交通委員會第6次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":4,"會次":6,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[23],"委員會代碼:str":["交通委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第4會期交通委員會第6次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2025-11-13T10:59:02+08:00","結束時間":"2025-11-13T11:09:05+08:00","影片長度":"00:10:03","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fffa2c65c610face37dc1974c106a44e63fe2012470c75420834c22697b3aa2a3e3ed5aee600c39c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃健豪","委員發言時間":"10:59:02 - 11:09:05","會議時間":"2025-11-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期交通委員會第6次全體委員會議（事由：邀請行政院公共工程委員會主任委員陳金德列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.18284375000000003,"end":4.654718750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3.4397187500000004,"end":3.6590937500000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10.746593750000002,"end":11.539718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11.539718750000002,"end":23.352218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":23.65596875,"end":37.20659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":37.79721875,"end":42.01596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":42.16784375,"end":43.26471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":43.416593750000004,"end":62.77221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":63.46409375,"end":65.60721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":66.28221875,"end":70.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":71.24346875,"end":71.61471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":72.03659375000001,"end":78.98909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":79.44471875,"end":89.89034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":90.66659375,"end":90.97034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":90.97034375000001,"end":94.98659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":95.05409375,"end":104.26784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":97.31534375000001,"end":97.73721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":104.43659375,"end":106.81596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":107.06909375000001,"end":114.10596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":114.69659375,"end":116.53596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":116.87346875,"end":120.55221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":121.02471875,"end":128.07846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":128.44971875000002,"end":130.01909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":130.42409375,"end":131.62221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":131.63909375,"end":133.73159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":134.03534375,"end":135.40221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":135.72284375,"end":137.02221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":137.54534375,"end":153.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":148.04159375,"end":148.96971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":153.30659375000002,"end":156.74909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":157.33971875,"end":163.95471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":164.44409375,"end":173.10096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":173.47221875000002,"end":178.68659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":178.78784375,"end":183.68159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":184.49159375000002,"end":184.93034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":185.08221875,"end":191.74784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":192.40596875,"end":197.48534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":197.90721875,"end":201.43409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":202.66596875000002,"end":207.34034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":207.82971875,"end":214.98471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":215.91284375,"end":220.99221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":221.12721875000003,"end":227.32034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":227.47221875000002,"end":229.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":229.69971875000002,"end":230.30721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":230.52659375000002,"end":242.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":232.12971875000002,"end":232.45034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":242.27159375000002,"end":243.84096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":244.29659375000003,"end":249.15659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":249.44346875000002,"end":263.80409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":263.90534375000004,"end":281.92784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":282.60284375000003,"end":295.20846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":296.27159375,"end":312.97784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":313.26471875000004,"end":313.61909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":313.61909375000005,"end":314.22659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":314.46284375000005,"end":318.64784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":318.98534375,"end":325.51596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":325.97159375,"end":327.32159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":327.57471875000005,"end":328.72221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":328.90784375000004,"end":354.87846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":356.22846875000005,"end":357.39284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":356.76846875,"end":357.08909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":359.46846875,"end":423.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":423.03659375,"end":428.25096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":429.09471875,"end":433.31346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":433.83659375,"end":441.56534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":441.76784375000005,"end":447.03284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":447.40409375,"end":449.17596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":449.41221875,"end":452.38221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":452.97284375000004,"end":457.20846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":457.57971875000004,"end":460.53284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":461.34284375000004,"end":505.90971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":506.01096875,"end":522.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":522.10971875,"end":523.67909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":523.0547187500001,"end":524.42159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":524.52284375,"end":528.60659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":529.46721875,"end":535.3059687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":534.96846875,"end":539.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":537.85409375,"end":538.03971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":539.3897187499999,"end":546.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":546.03846875,"end":555.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":548.5359687499999,"end":548.9578437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":555.4209687499999,"end":556.18034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":556.46721875,"end":559.13346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":559.4540937500001,"end":561.63096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":561.76596875,"end":562.1540937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":562.2890937500001,"end":565.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":565.27596875,"end":571.3003437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":570.82784375,"end":576.83534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":576.8859687500001,"end":593.4740937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":593.72721875,"end":595.68471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":595.7859687499999,"end":600.8147187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":600.9665937500001,"end":602.04659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":602.97471875,"end":603.53159375}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.23,"end":3.46,"text":"好謝謝主席主席一樣我們一樣請這個工程會陳主委請陳主委"},{"start":10.968,"end":36.313,"text":"委員長 主委早 主委這個前幾天我想我們工程會有修正一個採購評選委員會的評分標準那這裡面包含說採購加分項目包含這個依照丹納斯颱風及728豪雨災後復原工作的廠商依照貢獻程度來採購加分那我也跟你們調閱了一下有參與到這個所謂728跟這個丹納斯颱風的災後復原工作的廠商的名單其實"},{"start":37.853,"end":65.134,"text":"都非常有名都非常大間非常多廠商跟企業參與包含說慈濟也有參與那現在正在這個風口浪尖上的黃昌營造他也有參與那還有很多的公司都有參與那我問的是說今天把這個丹拉斯颱風列入所謂加分項目那未來其他的災後復原工作參與的廠商要不要也加入以及包含說像那個後來這個馬太安西岡煙色湖的問題"},{"start":66.311,"end":89.759,"text":"我看到這個廠商名單裡面有很多據我知道的也很多也參與了那個這個花蓮的災後重建的工作他們也捐了非常多的積蓄到現場去救助等等的所以我要問的主委意思是說今天特別把這個丹拉斯台風728豪雨的災後復原工作列入加分項目那未來參與其他政府相關災後復原工作的廠商會不會列入這個加分項目"},{"start":91.034,"end":113.807,"text":"報告因為當初這個嘉南這邊房屋受損的數量很多總數大概六萬那真正需要去修繕的也很多所以一時之間找不到那麼多廠商來做所以才工程會協調中央很多部會每個部會他們都有很多公務工程在做所以請這些廠商"},{"start":114.767,"end":129.841,"text":"集合起來分配到各區包括嘉義縣應該有8個鄉鎮台南市有17個區分配下去有的是做事者他們免費幫他做那有的是透過台南市政府"},{"start":130.641,"end":150.409,"text":"來媒合來媒合所以收入錢也比較少那因為他們停下來本身的工作所以我們才說他這個有盡到一定的企業社會的責任那原本我們的評選辦法裡面針對企業社會責任就要考量了所以特別針對這290家那麼頒給這個感謝狀那將來他在參與公共工程"},{"start":157.372,"end":183.297,"text":"投標如果是評選的時候就給他加分數未來如果類似情形工程會 省產會這麼做未來如果類似他透過我們一定的程序來招募來協助那麼而且來評選那我們也會這樣做因為我具體來講就是包含因為今年光是這兩一個就是丹納斯很嚴重嘛再來就是我們那個馬太安溪那個驗生壺事件後也很多的廠商投入機具我只是說"},{"start":184.54,"end":201.301,"text":"要當然要放入CSR標準這都沒有問題我沒有意見我覺得很好那我說什麼樣的事件跟什麼樣的標準參與救難的廠商救災的廠商或復原工作廠商他們能夠因為這樣子被加分我覺得這是一個標準啦我覺得這個是工程會要跟你講清楚的"},{"start":203.354,"end":213.701,"text":"當然是的時候因為都有跟個別部會的部會跟廠商之間都有聯繫而且明確有簽約有簽約所以這樣去做這個"},{"start":216.29,"end":243.678,"text":"感謝然後加分是都很清楚那馬太安西運社會因為是因為狀況因為受災很嚴重所以各地都進去大小廠商都進去因為那種個人戶企業社甚至很大的廠商也有都進去這部分我們可能要研究一下因為當時沒有很確定說哪一個廠商做什麼事情說哪幾天並沒有只是很感謝那麼多廠商進駐還有很多各縣市政府"},{"start":244.358,"end":263.465,"text":"各縣市的環保局的清潔隊也都進去我們看很多現場是很多所以這部分我們在研究我的意思是說如果類似將來還要到動員廠商放下工作去做我們特別指定的工作的話那我們會比照這一次來考慮加分的方式"},{"start":263.945,"end":281.714,"text":"好 主委謝謝 因為我今天會特別提這也是因為在這個290這間廠商裡面當然他們除了去幫助過丹拉斯颱風之外也有很多廠商也跟我反映他們其實一樣的名單裡面他們也重複的在這個提供重大機具投入到這個花蓮的這個問題裡面 所以他們覺得說如果"},{"start":282.935,"end":294.936,"text":"當然那颱風這樣子的一個狀他也的確是台灣百年難得見的颱風造成這麼大的損害馬太安溪這個驗射壺也是我們以前沒有預想過會發生這樣的事情所以大家的確出錢出力的這麼多企業投入那如果這些"},{"start":296.468,"end":312.79,"text":"對他們來講既然談到裁縫可以加分那如果去投入花蓮的這部分也可以加分或是未來萬一不幸又有其他事件可以加分那我覺得這個標準大家希望說能夠有一個比較明確的方向依據大家可以更樂意的去幫政府去處理這種災厄復原工作"},{"start":314.512,"end":338.609,"text":"好 那再來我看一下我們原物量上漲問題我想大家都很關心這個問題我其實台灣這幾年公共工程的流費標的情況也非常嚴重那包含說比較重點當然是我們交通部跟我們經濟部幾項那到底這種超過流費標三次然後照標五次以上的決標的案件未來到底我們工程會要怎麼樣面對或是說我們在跟各部會溝通的時候預算上有問題呢還是說因為預算執行期程拉太長"},{"start":339.429,"end":354.921,"text":"所以一開始設定的金額是這樣子那後面因為物價上漲所以他必須去面對要不斷的追加不斷追加包含我們剛剛提到的台北台中都有高雄的捷運台中捷運都是類似的問題所以不知道工程會在這種預算的節制上或管制上有沒有什麼樣的想法副主委來跟你說"},{"start":359.717,"end":383.18,"text":"我想有關公共工程廢標流標的確實是一個很嚴肅的問題當然工程會有做系統性的分析大概牽涉到經費不足或者是合約條款不合理工期太少大致上都是這些問題"},{"start":384.761,"end":413.383,"text":"目前我們協助的這個模式基本上面就是說如果比較簡易的當然就有各個他的主管機關自己去處理那如果他的這個金額超過五千萬那麼留標兩次那原則上我們就從這案子裡面那我們會個案來協助所以目前我們會把我們個案協助裡面再發現的問題再回饋給其他的機關大概是透過這樣一個循環的方式來處理那當然"},{"start":414.804,"end":427.969,"text":"這個廢油爆問題當然也有牽涉到整個因為我們政府採購要必須要三家才能開標的問題這是我們系統性的來處理來 副主委跟主委我也一樣就是說其實這個問題我們希望公司會積極一點的角色就是說我覺得"},{"start":429.144,"end":452.146,"text":"我們光列這幾項最大問題是什麼就是它的工作期程很長就是我們公共工程都拖很久10年20年至少都這樣很多大型工程都這樣那所以10年前的物價跟10年後的物價當然不能比它當然後續不斷在追加所以我希望工程會至少在扮演的這個管控的角度上至少讓它各單位能夠把這個期程縮短一點不要說每次"},{"start":453.268,"end":459.938,"text":"蓋個捷運 蓋個什麼東西都要蓋好久好久那當然你錢就一直不斷增加嘛永樂基會縮短各單位在做事情的這個時效"},{"start":461.817,"end":485.72,"text":"這個也是委員點到非常核心的問題就是說我們事後去處理一些禮約爭議大概最核心的問題是工期的問題那工期機關當時在定工期的時候有的時候他因為很多因素嘛他可能政策的問題或是未定的問題那很多是因為他施工過程裡面要變更"},{"start":486.841,"end":505.48,"text":"或加上其他的很多因素所以供期就變成是一個非常嚴肅的問題所以我們也會透過一個在指引的方式就是說你當時在這個設計的時候那個供期的那個訂定要非常的準確那就可以減免後面的一個相關的爭議了"},{"start":506.041,"end":526.957,"text":"好啦最後剛剛那個富水你提到這個所謂的三家廠商開票的規定喔之前我們工程會本來是預計想要把這個三家的這個規定把它刪掉然後提出新的採購法那本來是預計要4月要預告草案那我不知道現在這個草案到哪裡了已經預告了為什麼會議記錄不能提供給我們來參考"},{"start":529.762,"end":554.738,"text":"這個我們有跟本席有我們9月12有去含有去跟公眾要資料說辦公座談會我們11月才預告最近才預告因為有修正然後也要簽到行政院來通報然後預告所以11月才預告好我們希望這個快一點啦因為這個當初4月希望預告嘛現在又過了半年到現在才開始有這個相關的進度因為確實"},{"start":556.559,"end":575.473,"text":"三家的這個問題我們需要幫 也要幫業者想一個問題大家怕圖利嘛我們現在就是怕圖利所以當初還會有所謂三家的問題那既然要把這個東西拿掉那怎麼樣避免業者陷入圖利的陷阱裡面我覺得這個是共產會要做的事情就是機關如果編列預算的時候就要公告啦"},{"start":577.534,"end":602.192,"text":"讓業者盡快知道這個機關有這樣的採購計畫那將來他也要徵詢相關業者的意見所以讓這個透明公開然後讓業者提早知道準備標期我想就減少這樣的會圖利或者僅限於特定人來標的問題那這個到時候採購法也請委員能夠大力支持好 謝謝 謝謝主委好 謝謝"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}