{"error":false,"id":["165447"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":165447,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165447","日期":"2025-11-13","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-4-26-10","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第10次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":4,"會次":10,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[26],"委員會代碼:str":["社會福利及衛生環境委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第10次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2025-11-13T13:23:16+08:00","結束時間":"2025-11-13T13:34:39+08:00","影片長度":"00:11:23","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fffa2c65c610face672724c1120c46738ff38efa2589ba0871572932e1d9cfea5d5d57c87ccf072a5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"楊瓊瓔","委員發言時間":"13:23:16 - 13:34:39","會議時間":"2025-11-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：邀請衛生福利部部長及行政院主計總處就「癌症新藥暫時性支付及罕見疾病藥物專款預算運用成效及政策檢討」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n\n(討論事項)\n審查\n一、委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「癌症防治法第十三條及第十六條條文修正草案」案。\n二、委員陳菁徽等16人擬具「癌症防治法第十六條條文修正草案」案。\n三、委員邱鎮軍等19人擬具「癌症防治法第五條及第十六條條文修正草案」案。\n四、委員劉建國等17人擬具「癌症防治法第十六條條文修正草案」案。\n五、委員王正旭等17人擬具「癌症防治法第十六條條文修正草案」案。\n六、委員顏寬恒等21人擬具「癌症防治法第十三條條文修正草案」案。\n七、委員林淑芬等20人擬具「癌症防治法第十六條條文修正草案」案。\n八、委員盧縣一等17人擬具「癌症防治法第八條及第十六條條文修正草案」案。\n九、委員顏寬恒等24人擬具「癌症防治法第十六條條文修正草案」案。\n十、委員蘇巧慧等30人擬具「癌症防治法修正草案」案。\n十一、委員林月琴等16人擬具「癌症防治法第十六條條文修正草案」案。\n十二、委員邱議瑩等16人擬具「癌症防治法第十六條條文修正草案」案。\n十三、委員羅智強等18人擬具「癌症防治法第十六條條文修正草案」案。\n十四、台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「癌症防治法第一條、第十三條及第十六條條文修正草案」案。\n十五、委員陳亭妃等17人擬具「癌症防治法第十六條條文修正草案」案。\n十六、委員黃秀芳等21人擬具「癌症防治法第十六條條文修正草案」案。\n十七、委員馬文君等16人擬具「癌症防治法第十六條條文修正草案」案。\n【專題報告及討論事項綜合詢答；討論事項僅詢答】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2.22471875,"end":4.92471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5.262218750000001,"end":5.9372187499999995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9.480968750000002,"end":10.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10.645343750000002,"end":67.29471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":67.54784375,"end":71.69909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":67.90221875,"end":68.29034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":72.08721875,"end":87.73034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":87.93284375,"end":99.22221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":99.50909375,"end":102.68159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":103.01909375000001,"end":103.28909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":103.30596875,"end":130.67721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":131.16659375,"end":151.02846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":151.72034375,"end":154.45409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":154.52159375000002,"end":178.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":165.15284375000002,"end":165.38909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":167.92034375,"end":169.28721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":169.67534375000002,"end":170.19846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":170.92409375,"end":171.36284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":176.39159375,"end":177.42096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":177.94409375,"end":178.16346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":178.61909375000002,"end":202.63221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":201.70409375000003,"end":214.73159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":207.50909375,"end":207.99846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":208.48784375000002,"end":211.27221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":213.55034375000002,"end":218.76471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":217.21221875,"end":218.47784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":219.27096875,"end":241.10721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":238.87971875000002,"end":254.96159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":243.28409375,"end":243.57096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":248.27909375000002,"end":249.25784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":249.40971875000002,"end":249.91596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":253.89846875,"end":261.35721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":256.26096875,"end":264.69846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":265.00221875,"end":281.01659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":279.80159375,"end":284.94846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":284.05409375,"end":284.88096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":284.94846875,"end":284.96534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":284.96534375000005,"end":285.03284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":285.03284375000004,"end":285.55596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":285.55596875000003,"end":285.60659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":285.60659375,"end":285.65721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":285.65721875,"end":286.07909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":286.07909375,"end":288.34034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":287.15909375,"end":289.90971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":289.45409375,"end":296.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":295.84971875,"end":316.50471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":298.56659375000004,"end":299.47784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":300.60846875000004,"end":300.82784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":302.80221875,"end":303.02159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":304.57409375000003,"end":306.59909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":307.66221875,"end":308.32034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":309.43409375000005,"end":309.83909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":312.70784375,"end":313.31534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":314.51346875,"end":318.44534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":318.44534375,"end":342.34034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":342.52596875,"end":346.01909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":346.17096875000004,"end":352.14471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":352.71846875,"end":355.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":356.41409375,"end":390.60284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":390.88971875000004,"end":404.64284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","star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陽泉發言 邀請部長來 請部長兩位人好"},{"start":10.663,"end":35.251,"text":"部長好 我們在討論這個癌症長年是國人的十大死因之首我們也做了一個統計每一年超過五萬條寶貴的生命所以政府也推出了癌症心藥基金協助需要心藥的人經過了尤其是經濟較困難的人縮小他治療的一個落差"},{"start":36.351,"end":54.416,"text":"總統先生也提出在2030年的時候希望達成癌症標準化死亡率降低三分之一的這個願景所以我們行政院今年也編列了這個新藥的癌症基金的部分癌藥基金的部分是50億"},{"start":55.876,"end":84.048,"text":"但我們看到根據了台灣癌症基金會他所做的公佈今年度我們新藥基金專款的部分支用了23.58億元那總共大概有將近3351個家庭受惠所以換句話說平均大概一個人大概將近120萬左右的治療負擔不過在執行率我們目前看到不及五成"},{"start":85.749,"end":101.789,"text":"有不少的病友我覺得既然有這樣子能夠讓大家身體可以往健康的方向去執行為什麼會如此原來有很多的病友以及他的家人說了他說你這個基金第一個 是不是會長遠"},{"start":104.732,"end":130.191,"text":"這個藥會不會也是長遠他很深怕我用了之後我只有一年因為這個要長期來保養長期來保養那身體健康是我們國家這個很重要的一個責任所以本席要請教有了錢但是我們的執行率不到五成那為 中間到底是為什麼擔憂治療可能中斷"},{"start":131.552,"end":150.729,"text":"本席在看待這個數字的時候我發覺很多的家屬以及病人本身他提出了這一段所以這個因子讓他們身具恐懼所以本席要請教心藥基金會不會長期的運作那癌症基金法治化"},{"start":152.55,"end":176.957,"text":"應該要如何的來做請做說明好 謝謝委員關心到癌友的這個權益治療這個很重要所以我借這個機會說明今年我們剛開始有這個專款專用這個50億是不會留到別的地方專門專款用在癌症新藥那是因為第一年開始執行那前面要有評估才納入幾副納入這個基金來幾副但是呢"},{"start":178.897,"end":200.645,"text":"我們通過之後發布之後醫院還要採購進藥所以他時間就會往後延而且這個藥不是像我們今年一共有10個藥他也不是一次10個要宣布他也是一個月一個月一個月來所以他的第一年的執行的時候呢會發生這個情況那但是今年已經通過的這10個藥明年他一定是繼續給付"},{"start":201.525,"end":217.427,"text":"所以換句話說剛剛本席第一個提問新藥基金會長期運作是不是如此本席要問的是也是癌症病人家人他怕會中斷最重要的根據應該是說我們這個基金一定會長期運作只不過這個藥呢"},{"start":219.67,"end":237.99,"text":"這個放在這個基金裡面大概我們的設計是兩三年的時間會收集這個臨床使用的結果跟它的效果怎麼樣然後就會評估完之後有效的我們就納入到健保的給付常態去然後再採納新的進來所以它是變成是一個活水"},{"start":238.49,"end":264.532,"text":"進進出出這樣你這個活水 這是本席所解讀您的回答也就是新藥基金本席具體要求必須要長期的來運作讓我們癌症的病人跟家屬不用怕會中斷的這個議題不會 除非是評估沒有效當然 當然 當然沒有效人家也不會去用啦對 對 對 對 對所以癌症基金法之話這是必要的"},{"start":265.706,"end":282.918,"text":"事实上我们现在已经让他有法源了我们去修订了全民健康保险基金的收支保管及运用办法所以他已经有一个法源让他专款专用不会挪出其他的地方但是您说的你是以暂时性的支付基金"},{"start":284.099,"end":306.381,"text":"所以民眾還是會有質疑啊所以要給民眾說明清楚暫時的意思是說在這個基金裡面暫時未來他會回到健保裡面去啦所以藉這個機會也給社會大眾說明清楚我們關心的是讓民眾能夠好好的健康 治療過程可以有效用了有效就會一定讓他用"},{"start":306.621,"end":331.74,"text":"用了有效所以在新藥基金會長期的運作那兩三年滾動式檢討有效的會回到健保去做給付所以只要是有效一定會讓病人繼續用接下來本席要請教癌篩的問題因為我在總諮詢的時候也跟院長也討論過因為我們知道經費我們從去年的28億癌篩的部分提高今年是68億到10月底"},{"start":334.002,"end":355.358,"text":"本席給你做了一個統計癌症的部分是400萬人次那所以本席特別關心的也就是攝護腺癌的問題因為我們看到攝護腺癌已經進入到第六癌而且呢他呢這個2024年的攝護腺癌他新增加快要一萬人那同時是男性第三大癌症"},{"start":356.465,"end":372.561,"text":"那這樣的情況更是發生率比例是最高的所以早期來篩他是早期治療是都可以得到幾乎可以痊癒的那這個是保護人民最重要的一個根源"},{"start":373.442,"end":389.633,"text":"那所以將發生率跟死亡率都是最高的來納入篩檢他絕對是有必要性的所以本席要請教你是不是同意納入因為在總質詢的時候院長也認為這個必要這個必要發生率死亡率都是比例最高沒有理由不納入請教"},{"start":391.099,"end":404.99,"text":"跟委員報告這個攝護腺癌隨著我們國人的年齡的延長這個發生率會越來越高所以一定要有一個國家的防治政策所以早期治療早期發現早期治療早期發現早期治療絕對是這樣沒有錯只是說怎麼樣的篩法"},{"start":411.495,"end":432.025,"text":"這個我們需要有學者大家你多的時間要告訴本席因為本席在我們地方我很感謝善心人士他們願意出點錢然後到我們的社區來篩那個數字讓我會嚇到以80個人來篩20幾個中標這個我們真的很緊張所以你不管你什麼方式你可以篩納入將攝護腺癌這個篩檢納入公費"},{"start":436.368,"end":458.902,"text":"請問什麼時候會公佈跟委員報告 如果用傳統就是用PSA它的那個偽陽性蠻高的所以我們現在正在研究大概半年就會有一個結果報告出來說接下來我們這個對於攝護腺癌的防治應該怎麼做如果要篩 要怎麼篩法好 所以等於是在明年的3月份左右你可以告訴我們現在原則同意納入公費來篩"},{"start":462.378,"end":471.19,"text":"怎麼篩方法你們去原則上同一本席的建議發生率最高死亡率最高我們應該是要將攝護腺癌篩檢納入供費"},{"start":477.839,"end":497.54,"text":"那至於方式由你們明年大概三四月份來給社會大眾說明清楚同意納入公費的篩檢是不是我們有個委託研究計畫在進行那你現在部長你的方向就是同意將男性的這個攝護腺癌的篩檢列入重要的篩檢列入公費來篩檢"},{"start":498.781,"end":524.939,"text":"我們認同要有篩檢這個政策出來但是怎麼篩我們要有科學證據所以認同要篩就是納入公費來篩我們過去委員過去也很關心肺癌篩檢那個時候Low-Dose CT的肺癌篩檢也是先經過研究計畫然後再確診說所以本期再強調一次男性的攝護腺癌篩檢我們方向一致納入公費的篩檢至於方法"},{"start":525.399,"end":541.525,"text":"要怎麼篩 明年三四月你跟社會大眾說明清楚這樣方法我要謝謝你 我們一定要這麼去執行那接下來本教要請教你健保開源這現在你要傷腦筋去做的但是你突然來一個預告從這個"},{"start":545.971,"end":554.359,"text":"這個單比你把它列為所有不管房租啦不管你買賣股票什麼的累進兩萬你就要把人家增2.1%"},{"start":556.526,"end":578.791,"text":"這個炸鍋 這是誰這麼天才有沒有跨部會去討論因為卓院長說他不知道預告金管會我就問他 他也說他不知道那到底是怎麼冒出來的那將近500萬人的中小的小資族的一個權益誰這麼天才冒出這個"},{"start":581.31,"end":597.699,"text":"跟委員說明為了讓健保的財務可以永續然後大家的付費更公平我們健保一直都在討論各種不同的商案請你針對本席的評論是誰去想到這個預告而且有沒有跨部會沒有預告沒有預告有沒有跨部會去討論"},{"start":599.48,"end":617.232,"text":"我们都是还在进行程序在讨论当中学者专家给我们意见都在讨论这个只是所有的方案之一你这样讨论人家社会大众都已经知道了引起社会的哗然不可以如此这个过程当中你现在暂缓你什么时候要动"},{"start":618.392,"end":635.246,"text":"你現在所謂的暫緩是什麼意思我們健保的財務改革一直持續在討論當然要持續改革你的新的規劃方案你也要去提出嘛那就針對這個累進的兩萬元不管你房租不管你什麼一年你只要利息什麼的就要兩萬那還會不會動"},{"start":636.587,"end":658.579,"text":"沒有沒有 這個沒有定案你現在只是暫緩喔 他會不會動不是是取消還是暫緩沒有 沒有定案根本連定案都還沒有好 我很感謝我聽到這個訊息讓社會大眾知道是根本沒有定案所以沒有暫緩的問題嘛是不是因為本席之所以願意讓你講也就是讓社會大眾不要恐慌小資族現在通盤這麼嚴重你來一個將近500萬人的小資族這個嚴肅的議題這是本席絕對不同意的"},{"start":665.242,"end":671.345,"text":"好不好所以我們都會出一個結論根本沒有這個議案沒有沒有沒有這個議案所以也沒有暫緩的問題嘛好謝謝謝謝楊瓊瑩委員接下來請楊耀委員發言"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}