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劉信儀專門委員"},{"start":2024.915,"end":2033.914,"text":"文資局陳敬明局長影視及流行音樂產業局王淑芳局長"},{"start":2038.824,"end":2066.385,"text":"國立傳統藝術中心陳月宜主任國父紀念館王蘭生館長中正紀念堂管理處張惠珠代理處長歷史博物館洪世祐館長台灣美術館陳曠宜館長台灣工藝研究發展中心陳電理主任台灣博物館陳登清館長"},{"start":2068.667,"end":2096.001,"text":"台灣史前文化博物館陳蔡振良館長台灣交響樂團林立如代理團長台灣歷史博物館莊佩華副館長台灣文學館陳迎芳館長國家人權博物館洪世芳館長國家鐵道博物館籌備處鄭明章主任"},{"start":2098.701,"end":2122.636,"text":"國家兒童未來館籌備處曾崇邦主任國家漫畫博物館籌備處陳登清代理主任台南國家美術館籌備處黃洪文主任行政法人國家表演藝術中心郭美娟主任秘書"},{"start":2124.659,"end":2150.281,"text":"行政法院文化內容設計院 盧俊偉院長行政法院國家電影及視聽文化中心 楚敏仁董事長中央廣播電台 賴秀如董事長公共電視文化事業基金會 胡元輝董事長"},{"start":2154.178,"end":2178.37,"text":"好 那我們現在來確認議事錄那上次的會議議事錄有錯誤跟遺漏之處沒有喔 好 那我們議事錄確定那我們在場有柯智恩委員萬美玲委員那我們現在就來請文化部理部長進行優惠報告報告時間八分鐘"},{"start":2188.111,"end":2203.822,"text":"主席各位委員各位先進大家好我今天很榮幸因大院教育及文化委員會的邀請提出文化部業務報告並且備詢文化永續世界台灣是文化部一直以來的師政的願景"},{"start":2204.73,"end":2232.608,"text":"我僅代表文化部從三個面向來跟大家做重點的報告這三個面向是文化政策文化產業跟文化建設首先在文化政策方面我們會持續推動向下扎根今年除了持續向16到22歲的青年朋友發放1200點的文化幣之外我們也試辦13到15歲每人600點的文化幣"},{"start":2234.049,"end":2247.783,"text":"總共受益人數到目前為止206萬人是我們預計的目前領用的人數132.2萬人領取率已經高達六成四使用金額已經到了6.61億"},{"start":2249.725,"end":2276.783,"text":"除了發放之外我們也搭配了我們文化部的所有政策中正在進行的活動比如說國際書展或是國片等等鼓勵青年朋友積極領用文化幣小公視去年8月正式開台我們也鼓勵製作台灣兒少節目目前已經推出了25檔新制的兒少節目另外我也想積極培植兒童劇團及兒童戲劇創作者"},{"start":2279.925,"end":2304.782,"text":"在培養兒少繪本人才方面我們首次舉辦了一個繪本新秀大賽大家非常踴躍大概超過了900件的申請案敬請會公布獲獎名單今年九月我們會辦一個第一屆台灣國際兒童書展屆時我們也想邀請各位委員共襄盛舉這場兒童文化內容的盛宴"},{"start":2305.762,"end":2331.954,"text":"另外我們第一屆百大文化集體的甄選也受到大家非常踴躍的參與申請件數一共有1026件我們目前預定4月底公布結果未來我們要整合相關的資源配合其他的部會把文化集體打造成一個具有教育意義國際觀光和經濟價值的文化產育"},{"start":2333.744,"end":2358.394,"text":"兩天前台南國家美術館籌備處已經正式掛牌這是台灣第一座專責台灣近現代美術發展的美術館我在此我要特別感謝所有參與其中的先進同仁特別是前輩藝術家的後代謝謝他們的捐贈這對重建台灣藝術史來講是一個意義非凡的里程碑"},{"start":2360.083,"end":2387.291,"text":"除了建立台灣文化的主體性我們也積極要把台灣文化推向國際我們持續透過文化外交和文化黑潮政策鼓勵台灣藝文團隊參加國際展演國際演出 國際合資合作我們今年也跨部會跟外交部合作推出歐洲文化年的系列活動以響應大阪勢博"},{"start":2388.773,"end":2400.799,"text":"計劃在8月在大阪辦理台灣藝文系列展演向國際宣揚台灣文化的軟實力除此以外我們持續落實推動國家語言發展"},{"start":2401.823,"end":2425.704,"text":"有形跟無形的文化資產保存以及轉型正義人權教育等等建構台灣多元的價值民主自由的文化產業發展環境賴總統在3月13號國安高層會議的記者會又提到我們要提升本土文化產業的競爭力因此在文化產業面向"},{"start":2426.545,"end":2452.27,"text":"我們不僅會持續努力還要爭取更多的資源來投入目前國發基金已經匡列了第二個100億投資的額度我們藉由這個100億引導民間資金易入台灣文化內容產業其中已經通過跟中華電信合作組成一個規模30億的文創基金"},{"start":2453.871,"end":2465.399,"text":"也跟其他的電信公司正在簽備忘錄我們也持續透過投資跟補助並行的方式提升台灣影視能量"},{"start":2466.738,"end":2484.116,"text":"今年文策院更开始推动台湾故事开发国际合作计划挑选具有商业性和国际市场潜力的台湾原创故事搭配国际人才携手将台湾故事推向国际舞台"},{"start":2485.217,"end":2503.228,"text":"流行音樂產業方面我們將持續鼓勵進軍國際舞台音樂節以及跨界合作今年我們規劃流行音樂拓展東南亞市場計畫協助產業拓展海外市場促成音樂合資版權交易"},{"start":2503.948,"end":2520.224,"text":"演出經濟等國際合作機會推動台灣音樂出口在出版產業方面我們也會持續推出創作的鼓勵翻譯出版獎勵及版權推廣等計畫目前已經有多部作品"},{"start":2521.105,"end":2544.974,"text":"獲得國際獎項肯定例如楊雙子的台灣漫遊錄英譯本獲得美國國家圖書獎翻譯文學大獎這是台灣文學作品首次獲得此珠榮在文化創意跟文化科技方面我們持續打造台灣文化創意博覽會台北時裝周等文創交易平台"},{"start":2545.914,"end":2566.958,"text":"拓展國際影響力同時鼓勵科技藝術創作在國際文化展演的新技術上台灣不會缺席在動畫與漫畫方面今年起我們會設置動畫節目製作補助在長篇輔導金中增加一項動畫組我們積極啟動籌備2027年國際漫畫節"},{"start":2575.461,"end":2588.971,"text":"今年我們會和日本漫畫培訓單位合作辦理漫畫創作與編輯培訓課程也規劃透過補助跟媒合機制協助漫畫IP轉譯成動畫、遊戲、影視提升台灣原創內容、產業價值和國際競爭力"},{"start":2597.236,"end":2621.363,"text":"最後在文化建設方面各項文化館設的興建、整修跟升級計畫都在進行中今年會有幾項完工或開始啟用國家兒童未來館在今年春夏設立願景館用科技、自然藝術跟社會等方式讓我們的兒童參與兒童未來館"},{"start":2623.483,"end":2650.391,"text":"從無到有的過程台灣文學館將利用歷史建築糧食局的倉庫作為第二個據點我們命名為台灣文學糧倉預計今年上半年啟用我們也預計完成國家鐵道博物館北側範圍空總台灣當代文化實驗場古蹟修復再利用等工程以上報告請大院委員不應自教謝謝大家"},{"start":2658.89,"end":2659.451,"text":"謝謝李部長的口頭報告那我們現在進行詢問"},{"start":2675.186,"end":2694.252,"text":"委員如有臨時提案也請於上午10點30分前提出並與本會委員葛如君召委質詢結束後即其進行處理處理提案時若提案委員及連署委員均不在場原例不予處理首先我們請發言登記第一位柯志恩委員質詢好謝謝召委我們現在請黎院部長請黎院部長"},{"start":2708.134,"end":2720.762,"text":"各位你好部長好我想你現在也是聊下去站台助講而且還自備道具你那個挖工是從哪裡來的我那個挖工是我非常有歷史價值是我結婚成家立業的起家族的起家王"},{"start":2723.924,"end":2741.393,"text":"就从你们家自己带过来的对不对不过真的还是一个知名的作家讲的是要把讨饭的挖工变成文化的聚宝盆那我想这个向来我们对于这个文化工作者的生计大家都非常的重视嘛对不对特别是对基层的人工但是呢我还是要请问部长"},{"start":2742.153,"end":2765.252,"text":"大部分的文化工作者是很难真的是连聚宝盆的边都摸不到的要拿到补助的机会都没有的你在站台时候讲的一些话我某种程度我还是蛮赞同的你说呢这个创作之余还要监送这个外送当家教然后呢各种贴补的工作来维持生计没错吧就表示说这个大家过得非常的辛苦嘛对不对"},{"start":2766.132,"end":2782.778,"text":"那這應該是文化部的一個工作跟角色啦那我想請問部長你知道這個從民進黨執政大概2016到現在大概9年的時間我們這10年來台灣藝文工作者的年薪大概是多少你有概念嗎我沒有概念因為它不同的產業不同的收入"},{"start":2784.899,"end":2807.295,"text":"但是把它列名为艺文工作者我跟部长讲一下大概维持在45万到53万之间它大概比服务业这十年服务业增长的幅度其实你看服务业增长的幅度大概是24%但是我们创作者表演艺术者才增加4%这是让部长先了解一些基本的概念而且你会知道2013年两者才差9%"},{"start":2809.677,"end":2837.725,"text":"但到2019年的时候呢其实已经扩大到18%而且这个疫情扩大之后呢更已经达到26%这就是基层文化者我们要讨论要真正让他们能够摸到聚宝盆我们要从这个角度来先来看起而且很多事实证明包括吴阿普你自己也做过很多的资料啊你每一年花了2696万来做这个所谓的统计来做分析你也很多数字告诉我们低薪 风险高 压力大"},{"start":2839.005,"end":2855.443,"text":"这都完全是所以我们就一一来解释一下到底是如何来我们再看下面一个资料你看根据劳动部的调查我们大概有21万这个文化工作者但是呢受雇的员工就是有公司的受雇大概是13万大概是占的比例是63.76"},{"start":2857.105,"end":2876.1,"text":"那没有一定雇主的大概就是3.84但是就像freelancer就是自营工作者是32.41部长你看这个比例图跟一般我们劳动的分配是有点不太一样一般劳动分配的话自营者跟这个所谓的有雇主的大概是2比8但是我们文化工作者你看得出来"},{"start":2877.921,"end":2900.409,"text":"自营工作者跟还有包括没有一定的工作者他的比例是高于一般台湾的整个劳工的结构这就可以反映出我们工作者的一个辛苦但是呢我今天就要特别提到没有雇主没有劳保没有劳退这个东西是我们想面对你们也做出了非常多的研究我们来看看怎么样来做一个解方先告诉你还有出版业这是部长非常在乎的"},{"start":2901.209,"end":2928.209,"text":"出版业也来反映呢还有一堆的一批的外包的这个大军团包括企划文案等等之类的你知道吗他们跟本席反映光是单笔收入超过两万块的拨款的时候就必须依法先预扣10%的所得税还有一笔二代健保没有加入工会的外包人员要扣这一笔所以说呢预扣所得税是政府的规定你把一天到晚没有超过两万人他的这个预扣所得跟蔡依林周杰伦"},{"start":2928.829,"end":2952.484,"text":"一模一樣你覺得這公平嗎身為文化部長你對這些基層人員公平嗎他們都沒有跟你反應過嗎你是不是可以去以部長之姿為了這些文化的基層工作者然後跟財政部來了解一下是否對於這些文化的工作者怎麼樣鼓勵文化工作者當他們在這個第二代的健保的這個部分可不可以不要預扣這是部長你可以做到的嘛對不對對"},{"start":2955.376,"end":2972.049,"text":"好那就請部長務必未來可以為這些工作者來因為兩萬多塊錢是不應該跟周杰倫等量奇觀來做同樣的事情這是不公平的這才是為文化工作基層來去做我們再來看一下還有沒有當然還有啊像是呢文化部做這麼多統計但是我們要問嘛我剛說了2690"},{"start":2976.953,"end":2999.205,"text":"2696万来做这个分析但是你们到底拿出了什么样的解方到底做了哪一些的事情所以说这些你们拿出来的对策到底在哪里我们就来看啊还有呢去年有一位成为钢琴大奖的这个杨信钢琴家他对罗当然他的原因有非常多不同的因素我现在只看到他所说的揭露艺术工作者的困境我看到这一个部分"},{"start":2999.625,"end":3021.102,"text":"你知道很多的艺术家他们往往一些契约被取消他们完全没有任何的一个概念他们也完全不晓得民法也不熟悉深文化部长你可不在你的官网因为不懂法律可不可以提供契约范本就像过去我们的观光产业我们的消费者本身也不知道这个出国旅游会有这么多我们马上有消费者的契约"},{"start":3021.542,"end":3033.156,"text":"如果對這基層員工來說的話是否可以提供一個辦法提供一個法律參考這才是文化部部長該做的事情這才是你告訴我們這些文化基層工作者應該有的一些部分部長你同意嗎"},{"start":3034.643,"end":3039.027,"text":"非常同意而且我們就朝這個發現已經公佈在我們的官方網站上面您剛才講的我非常非常同意當然因為你自己也是來自基層你知道他們之間的一個辛苦好不好這麼多的人那接下來我們就來看一下公視最近舉辦的事實查核的藝術跟實踐國際研討會很好來告訴我們"},{"start":3054.699,"end":3074.159,"text":"怎么样来对于这个假讯息严重散布该如何做一些防堵可是我们来看看公事的就是公广机场的华视的新闻的专业到底有没有它的公信力存在不要说这个跑马灯但这已经是过去式的跑马灯过去的共军投档习台大屯火山爆发这些都是跑马灯所发生的一些的状况"},{"start":3074.659,"end":3081.781,"text":"然後現在呢好最近就發生了這個狀況陳潔篇的發言被民眾抗議還明明講的是中華隊你們硬要是要把它改成台灣隊然後呢昨天又發生一些我們75個中研院的這個學者專家明明跟你講的就是在戒嚴時代思想已經審查已經降臨台灣這個呢我們你們中央社就一定要把這個戒嚴兩個字給拿掉戒嚴這麼刺耳嗎部長"},{"start":3104.471,"end":3121.221,"text":"戒嚴是一個在台灣曾經有過的一個人家講人家學者專家講的就是他的如實你如實把它披露出來硬是要把戒嚴兩個字拿掉人家的中華隊你要把它框上是台灣隊你覺得新聞的公信你覺得新聞的職專業是需要做這樣的事情嗎就是這樣子啊"},{"start":3125.563,"end":3140.616,"text":"人家聯合其他報紙就是有如實的報導我們這位陳培哲教授裡面所提到的你硬是要把這兩個字弄掉你覺得你身為一個專業新聞工作有需要做這件事嗎我想這非常不應該可能是一個疏忽啦疏忽啊不然是故意的"},{"start":3140.836,"end":3165.379,"text":"那我们就希望以后的公广集团旗下的任何的部分可以更不要再疏忽好不好我们就已经提点出来还有台湾plus对不起啊部长我还是要说在我们院会的时候呢我们所有的委员只是只是做的一些小更多院会这个部分里面当然会有但是呢我们看看台湾plus台湾plus的一些的员工其实就会到我这个地方来他认为呢发生什么样的状况"},{"start":3165.799,"end":3184.264,"text":"他说他通常很多时候是高于市价的外包的方法然后呢对于一些纳税人的钱其实没有好好的制作成本非常的惊人OK还有呢到底跟Discovery的合作的专案两年间耗费六千万有没有他的合理性这都可以受到讨论但是呢"},{"start":3184.904,"end":3208.161,"text":"就是一个你113年你明明还有一亿花不完而且呢我们调了一个资料你还要跟文化部做一个预算展言你的钱都还没有花完你却还要用更多的预算你不觉得这个预算的管控上面部长你应该稍微也来了解一下吗要展言这个一亿表示钱没有花完没有在这个规定时间做啊"},{"start":3208.601,"end":3216.989,"text":"是不是所以這是內部員工覺得在這整個過程當中高層的確是有必要要再做一些檢討部長你同意嗎我非常同意應該檢討但有一些"},{"start":3219.608,"end":3239.6,"text":"那個節目製作是跟國際合作他必須展現我同意啊所以我才說你同意合作但是你的時間也沒有辦法做到這個就在預算的管控上面就會出了問題還有包括你們台灣plus的基層員工所提到的外包然後是不是你的這個所謂外包的成本比本來製作還要更高這個也請部長好好來諮詢一下"},{"start":3241.721,"end":3261.429,"text":"好谢谢还有包括我还知道央广这当然是已经过去式的这个目前来说非常多已经不是现在我们央广的董事长的部分这是前台的馆长的这个部分嘛好我们这体验我们就来看一下这个虽然是四年前发生的事情但是呢它也条列的你有看过他们所拿出的报告吗"},{"start":3263.413,"end":3278.714,"text":"你没看过报告那个廉政署都已经开始查了你没看过调查报告里面有提出五项严重的缺失我想这五项严重的缺失目前为止有没有做任何的做任何的一个追究而且你们还说要上到司法单位来做调查到底后续有没有调查"},{"start":3279.415,"end":3300.468,"text":"有關於央廣這長期以來的歷史工業這是你們前台長所說的什麼叫歷史工業然後歷史工業完就完全不追究然後這台長就可以到別的地方更高深有這種事啊而且最重要的是你為什麼把它放為機密文件最後不能不能見人嗎為什麼放機密文件這東西不能公開透明嗎告訴我央廣過去的歷史工業到底是哪些的工業哪一些的工業為什麼要放成機密文件"},{"start":3301.989,"end":3322.071,"text":"部長這不需要吧而且呢這個崔少哲本身認為他是長期受到一個霸凌雖然你們已經成立委員會然後認為不成立但是他也是一個事實所以我還是真的是希望部長這些都是員工的犧牲我今天所提到都是文化者基本的一個犧牲可不可以請你真的是好好去徹查一下以前是叫做國防部"},{"start":3322.952,"end":3330.555,"text":"我不相信要變成文化部遮羞部的部這不應該在你任內所發生的事情這個不應該變成一個機密最後我還是要說華視的部分裡面這個總台長目前為止到華視去了然後呢華視被認為是國家關鍵的基礎設施這是NCC講的因為是我們國家的是我們的部分裡面"},{"start":3340.678,"end":3358.46,"text":"现在你们把六楼把一些两层楼的节目部全部赶到六楼的一个角落一个节目部节目部的基层员工也觉得很吧一个这么大的一个节目部为什么要赶到六楼过去然后把这些全部出租当然我可以了解华氏的辛苦所以希望能够"},{"start":3358.78,"end":3377.354,"text":"能出空间来然后能够外租给不同的单位所以你看啊这我还是要忍不住这又是一个历史的工业我相信你们会这样讲今年的台市跟民市都赚钱中市小亏的三千万华市还是亏钱这当然是历史工业我知道我们的董事长也非常的努力的但是呢我说实在的你们把"},{"start":3377.794,"end":3387.52,"text":"这个楼层把一个这么重要的节目部放在一个员工不舒服而且比较狭窄的空间全部是外包全部都是拿去租赁然后你收入3.5亿但是我说实在的如果不是放上这3.5亿华氏不是要亏6亿吗"},{"start":3393.924,"end":3420.987,"text":"這些都是在財務成本的管控上面部長都是你自己曾經經歷過的你今天具有這樣的一個位置我真的很希望部長真的為基層的文化工作者我剛剛所提到的部長也認為是有道理的那就請部長採取行動這才是一個文化部不是跟我講那麼多文化部身為一個基層文化工作者我們給他一個更好的文化環境這才是我們應該是最基礎而且應該最需要做到的部長同意嗎"},{"start":3421.932,"end":3445.666,"text":"剛才柯委員講的每一件事情我都身歷其境謝謝你的指教我想我會努力希望我們在下一次的質詢當中可以看到一些結果特別是我剛剛所提到的二代健保部分兩萬五千塊你卻要跟他跟那個兩億五千塊的周杰倫放在一個同一個瓶頸這怎麼說都說不過去了對不對是好我有提到周杰倫但是你不想聽到名字因為上次黃劉佩好選你也被周杰倫搞得非常的困難好吧謝謝部長謝謝謝謝委員謝謝"},{"start":3450.011,"end":3454.977,"text":"好 謝謝柯之恩委員部長請回好 我們接下來請萬美玲委員好 謝謝召委一樣有請我們林遠部長還有我們賴董事長好 辛迪部長跟楊廣賴董事長"},{"start":3473.343,"end":3491.114,"text":"王委員您好部長早我想央廣最近這件事情鬧得沸沸揚揚但是剛才我聽到您說這個查核報告您沒有看我們來回顧一下這個央廣在110年4月的時候當時被媒體爆出製作不實的單據那像這個陸委會等等的公部門詐領了相關的公費"},{"start":3493.175,"end":3510.5,"text":"那那個時候其實文化部到了這個隔兩個月才去函要求這個公正查核那央廣也花了大概半年多的時間到111年的1月把查核報告送到文化部那不曉得為什麼要列為這個機密當然現在把它解密之後我們才發現說"},{"start":3512.38,"end":3533.316,"text":"其中6697筆領據竟然有高達2885筆的領據是異常的這個比例已經高達了43%而且這是目前可以查到的部分那如果還有一些我們不知道沒有公布的我們還不知道有多少但是本席比較驚訝的是部長您竟然說你沒有看過這個查核報告為什麼"},{"start":3536.203,"end":3561.065,"text":"我想我最近還沒有機會看到因為他最近這個事情我其實一開始根本搞不清楚因為四年前後來經過我了解以後我想這個當然不是在您的任內喔但是呢我們要這個大刀闊斧的去改變過去的一些陋習喔那或者是有一些其實不合理不合法的地方我覺得您身為現任的部長是應該要去了解的喔你看喔"},{"start":3561.485,"end":3574.396,"text":"既然您說您沒有看過我想整理一下其實沒有看過連最近媒體在報也沒有去注意嘛因為它不管是這個節目沒有辦法核對好像每一集的這個集數是不相符的那甚至於來賓是不對的還有這個偽造簽名的那麼日期跟播出時間不一的等等這些其實都非常的誇張啦我相信您身為這個從這個電視人來從媒體來喔您一定會發現這樣的狀況其實是匪夷所思的喔"},{"start":3587.987,"end":3616.814,"text":"好我們再來看一個根據這個查核報告我們看到來我們看一下那個到查核報告這邊這個查核報告我們看到第一階段跟第三階段不知道你有沒有發現這是央廣指定特定的範圍央廣指定的特定的範圍去讓你查核結果呢我們發現你看第一階段無法勾擊的比例還是高達將近48%如果要把這個裡面回復加進去超過一半你指定的範圍我們竟然還是沒有辦法勾擊第三階段"},{"start":3617.594,"end":3629.298,"text":"一樣是你這個特定的範圍結果呢高達九成多無法勾擊那你更不要講說沒有特定的範圍也是六成多無法勾擊喔所以我覺得這個很誇張啦就換句話說我們有一半以上的領據喔是沒有辦法查核的喔那有這麼高比例的異常喔其實我必須要講喔這真的是一團亂戰啦已經不是說什麼平行形勢啦還是什麼疏失啦我覺得啦"},{"start":3643.803,"end":3661.135,"text":"你要說這裡面有人謀不章或者有其他的狀況我覺得都不為過所以我覺得這個部長是應該要去了解一下的那當然這個在文化部在111年的4月份的時候當時送了地檢署跟這個廉政署來調查"},{"start":3662.256,"end":3686.961,"text":"所以這個事件被這個被披露這個是延宕一年之後才送這個我覺得必須要了解為什麼延宕這麼多可是呢這個查核報告還有一點他說查核人員根本無法確認樣本量的存在性跟正確性那也難怪嘛那難怪地檢署聯證署查了三年還查不出所以然來好我們看到之前我們還把它列為這個機密那如果按照"},{"start":3687.501,"end":3714.761,"text":"之前的這個文化部跟部長提的說要等到這個司法機關查出來才要解密那你這樣永遠就沒有解密的時候啦我覺得這很誇張欸部長所以我想這個查核報在110年1月我們就送到了文化部來了那當時這文化部也有要求說你趕快改善不過央保到113年才說要重新建置會計賬戶系統而且據本期了解到現在還沒有辦法建置改善完畢那針對這一些"},{"start":3717.383,"end":3744.494,"text":"董事長您可以接受央廣這樣的效率跟這件事事後這樣的處理嗎非常不能接受因為我的工作五十年以來我接觸過非常多這種機構裡面會長期累積的一些問題我聽了蠻痛心的那我也希望未來的所有的查核機制本身內容的一些建置一個比較完整的那個會計系統內控我希望能夠很快建立"},{"start":3745.194,"end":3749.978,"text":"你希望趕快建立嗎所以一個月之內我們有辦法把它建立起來嗎我請那個沒有沒有 部長還是要了解一個月內可以嗎其實他們2021年之後就來做這個事情一個月應該沒問題的其實在當時發生後的一個月就應該要檢討了三四年後我覺得太離譜了啦好不好所以部長 拜託我希望這件事情你要有魄力"},{"start":3770.034,"end":3785.165,"text":"雖然不是在你的任內但是我們要看看央廣到底發生什麼事情了我想其實我們在央廣有一些節目製作各方面還是很好的但是不能因為有一些做得很好這件事情我們把它當作疏忽我覺得不可以這樣子那另外剛剛也有提出來說我們這個當時吹哨者"},{"start":3788.007,"end":3800.139,"text":"他是一位在央广任职25年的台语导播他也有提出来说因为他出来做吹哨者所以他遭到职场的霸凌这件事情部长有没有去了解"},{"start":3801.018,"end":3820.716,"text":"我稍微了解 我覺得他所謂的職長霸凌 他講的這件事情其實蠻複雜經過調查後他不成立 不成立之後他再申請調查所以又重啟調查 所以他不是用一個高層次案升官這樣的字眼去形容整件事 他沒那麼單純"},{"start":3822.005,"end":3825.326,"text":"好 部長 既然這件事情沒有那麼單純但是呢 這個吹哨者其實也有在站出來為這件事情再發出不平之聲我希望部長 我們是不是應該把這個案子到底過去怎麼發生了你看看 百分之四十幾"},{"start":3838.331,"end":3857.227,"text":"就我們能夠查到就百分之四十幾將近一半這個單據啊其實涉及炸零不時的核銷然後呢又有吹哨者被職場霸凌那甚至於當年啊可能有做錯事的人不斷在升官我希望部長能不能用你現在是文化部的部長的這樣的高度這整個案子全部重啟調查可以嗎"},{"start":3858.087,"end":3881.228,"text":"沒問題我想我會全部了解那我們一個月內可以把這個報告出來嗎可以好謝謝那接下來部長我想繼續跟您請教我想最近這幾年來AI的技術可以說是發展非常的迅速而且應用在這個藝術創作的案例可以說是越來越多不管是AI的音樂畫作劇本等等那文化部其實也跟台灣人工智慧實驗室來合作"},{"start":3882.99,"end":3895.883,"text":"也呃 籌建了一個流行音樂中心AI實驗基地在花蓮嘛喔那我想請教一下部長喔我們現在除了這個花蓮的流行音樂中心AI實驗基地之外現在還有沒有其他地方也要來做的計畫"},{"start":3897.54,"end":3916.033,"text":"有 其實我們最近不斷地在內部討論AI對我們未來的創作可以有什麼影響然後有什麼幫助 但是也會有一些可能租作權的問題所以我們現在除了花蓮的這個實驗基地沒有其他的了是嗎沒有 有一直在做好 在我想"},{"start":3916.733,"end":3924.845,"text":"部長講得很好這也是我們必須要拿來討論的就是說我們其實一定的程度也是代表文化部有去支持這個AI協助創作支持的一個方向所以我們才會籌建這個實驗基地不過就像您剛剛所說的"},{"start":3932.095,"end":3952.882,"text":"觸發了相關的作品或者風格的一些侵權或者是剽竊或者是影響的疑慮跟爭議這幾點我們都有在討論所以你怎麼看這個AI對於藝術家來說它到底是一個創作者角色會變成一種威脅還是創作力催生的一種協同所以您也是一個作家您怎麼看這個部分"},{"start":3954.124,"end":3973.041,"text":"我覺得他是兩面的他有時候太快的輸進去可以有創作出來跟我們創作差不多這是一個危機這是一個危機譬如說我們最近有個繪本比賽評完之後我就會找兩個負責AI的評審重新看一遍得獎作品看他們是不是AI深層"},{"start":3973.881,"end":3997.793,"text":"這是一個負面的可是我們也不能排斥AI能夠做的很多工作有可能是比過去更方便很好部長我覺得您這個方向都非常的正確那也考慮得非常的周全正因為你說這是一體兩面所以我們才要認真仔細好我舉一個國外的例子根據英國創作者權力聯盟工會來調查他們有四分之一的插畫家跟超過三分之一的翻譯者"},{"start":3998.473,"end":4017.194,"text":"因為AI失業了而超過86%的這個工會會員他也很擔心他自身不管是風格啦或者是他的聲音等等在AI訓練的過程當中遭到這個模仿或剽竊會使他的創作價值受損好我們看到在國內也像您剛所說的我們也一直都有一些爭議包括"},{"start":4018.215,"end":4044.002,"text":"AI這個生成作品的這個利用這個作品去參加比賽得到獎項那引發這個大家覺得不公平啦那也有這個插畫家的會師啊這個被AI侵權啦等等啦所以這就是您剛剛所說的好那我們就來討論了所以你看我們如果在推動這個AI創作的同時那我知道有這些問題但是我們沒有明確的這個規範跟指引其實這就會是一種衝擊啦所以好"},{"start":4045.962,"end":4061.424,"text":"都點頭嗎 沒有錯所以你看我們現在政院版的AI基本法還卡在行政院所以隨著我們現在不管是法律 法規落後於AI跳躍式的發展我們快跟不上了所以創作人的權益其實就會去一種不平衡"},{"start":4062.285,"end":4088.553,"text":"那文化部在去年12月中旬有說過我們現在在蒐集國際案例跟國內藝文產業的意見要來研擬文化藝術應用生成式的AI規範指引並且要預計在今年上半年來發布請問一下部長這個進度現在到哪裡了知道原來的進度在2025年的上半年會發布因為這個部分從去年開始所以是幾月幾月 我問一下"},{"start":4091.456,"end":4102.854,"text":"6月對6月好所以我們確定6月份這一份文化藝術應用生成式AI規範指引就會出來嘛對不對好那我想大方向問一下我們這個指引要怎麼規範"},{"start":4106.005,"end":4124.194,"text":"我們會在各種比賽裡面非常嚴格的要求他不能夠是AI的生成但是反過來也不斷的告訴藝文工作者AI跟他之間的這種限制跟利用那規範裡面會訂得很清楚"},{"start":4124.594,"end":4141.541,"text":"那部長我想我這邊能不能這樣要求啊因為六月我們正式的這個指引要出來嘛那我們是希望能不能夠在比如說四月五月的時候啊我們有一個大方向能不能先把這個大方向讓我們所有委員會的委員先知道一下整個方向大概是往哪個地方走可以嗎可以嗎"},{"start":4144.562,"end":4172.762,"text":"就是我們六月嘛所以我們可不可以五月初好不好五月初的時候把這個大方先給大家那也許我們大家還可以有集思廣益有一些更寶貴的意見可以給各位其實我們在我們所有過去的辦法裡都加了這一條以前沒有加現在所有補助辦法跟比賽我們都加就像我剛才講說我們還會加一個AI的評審看看作品有沒有AI的生成等等雖然我們的範例還沒有那個辦法還沒出來可是我們已經在我們的所有條例裡面修改"},{"start":4173.382,"end":4191.337,"text":"好那部長反正我們就是剛才我們說的央廣的部分一個月內要給我一個這個報告然後這個部分的話五月初大方向給我們六月我們要公佈好不好好沒問題謝謝好謝謝萬美玲委員部長請回我們接下來請林沛翔委員有請李部長好有請部長"},{"start":4208.157,"end":4232.12,"text":"林委員好 部長本席是基隆選區選出來的立法委員那基隆作為一個豐富歷史與文化底蘊的城市那基本上來講我們都知道基隆是個海港不過基隆曾經也經過了西班牙統治時代、荷蘭統治時代、日據統治時代甚至還有清法戰爭所以基隆嚴格講起來是有多國文化的文化交匯的地方"},{"start":4232.76,"end":4247.168,"text":"但是我這邊就要提說因為基隆過去幾年來對於文化上面來講常常會被人家有一種似乎是文化感不足文化沙漠的這種感觸所以說本席今天想要來談談關於基隆文化資源的整合"},{"start":4247.948,"end":4274.462,"text":"最近基隆市有積極推向多項文化活動包括說下禮拜即將開始的2025基隆童話藝術節以及說像是說基隆文化學推出所謂的世界閱讀日結合基隆港的歷史跟康瑪丁市集的特色讓民眾深入了解基隆的文化不過呢我們基隆的文化特色如何在基隆如何在全國或者國際之間受到更多關注其實還是蠻挑戰性的蠻大挑戰的"},{"start":4277.624,"end":4302.228,"text":"我們文化部的台灣文化路徑推動計畫已經涵蓋多元族群及地方文化的保存與發展但是基隆的海港文化跟廟宇文化似乎沒有被充分納入在裡面所以想請問部長文化部是否考慮將基隆的港口歷史跟海洋文化納入我們台灣文化路徑推動計畫成為獨特的一條文化路徑呢"},{"start":4304.391,"end":4330.692,"text":"謝謝委員問這個問題我覺得基隆在2017年之後我們整個歷史重建計畫修復一些重要的觀色還有就是剛剛講到大基隆歷史場景再造我們補助了大概8億多的錢挖掘這個考古之後的下一個點在港口文化的確是全台灣北北基於很重要的一個點我想它是一個歷史恢復我想會列入我們的計畫中"},{"start":4333.114,"end":4351.167,"text":"為什麼會特地提到這一塊就是說其實部長我沒有想過我們現在不只是考古學家也好還是歷史學家也好甚至像一般的年輕一輩針對這個大航海時代其實都有很多的憧憬跟很多的好感那在大航海時代裡面如果把基隆"},{"start":4351.647,"end":4379.834,"text":"因為基隆為什麼會有清法戰爭為什麼會有西班牙人來這邊佔領為什麼有荷蘭來這邊佔領因為基隆是個天然兩港之外另外一點就是基隆本身有豐富的煤礦那如果在以前的歷史史觀來看的時候基隆不但是個好的軍港好的商港之外還可以直接就可以有足夠的燃料來支撐一座艦隊所以如果以這個大航海時代的歷史史觀來講的話基隆其實發展性非常的高"},{"start":4380.234,"end":4395.992,"text":"那跟其他不管是說你是講是說大韓時代西班牙帝國還是那個荷蘭帝國他們在海上的這些貿易跟這些佔領的過程當中其實基隆在這邊其實很多可以點綴的地方所以因此我會特地把港口文化拿出來講"},{"start":4396.793,"end":4412.278,"text":"另外一方面廟宇文化因為基隆長期是海港那海港有時候很多不同的像海致敬的文化或像不管是媽祖也好還是說其他不同的文化這一點為什麼特地把這兩個勾勒出來就是希望說部長"},{"start":4412.918,"end":4430.295,"text":"以台灣文化算是總督來講如果你以台灣文化總督來看的時候其實這一點是很好發揮的地方所以特地請部長再把這兩個尤其是有關港口文化現在基隆還是全世界有名的港口不管是郵輪港也好還是山港也好"},{"start":4430.655,"end":4444.227,"text":"那這點港口文化如果未來他們我們的國際旅客也好還是國際客要繼續來基隆那港口文化港口的故事描述會是我認為不管是文化部也好還是其他觀光業也好很重要的一點"},{"start":4446.585,"end":4470.414,"text":"謝謝委員講這一段其實我們去年台灣歷史博物館就有展出一個清法戰爭而且是跟法國一起來展的然後所有港口的宮廟都記載著清清楚楚當年清法戰爭發生之後民間的口述歷史所以那個展覽告訴我們說明年就是西班牙來台灣400年就像"},{"start":4472.415,"end":4496.48,"text":"去年是台南的四百年一樣那個地方是有很多歷史是被大家忽略的像看清華戰爭在正史上都沒有記載太多都從民間去找到一些口述歷史反而要從法國人那邊找到很多證據所以這點委員你講的是我們未來一定會非常重視的港口文化跟曾經發生過的事情"},{"start":4496.84,"end":4521.466,"text":"好 謝謝部長特地提到這清法戰爭因為清法戰爭您剛剛講說140週年活動嘛其實這個我會 本席覺得基本上來講是好事而且做得不錯但是本席覺得有點可惜的地方就是不只是清法戰爭而是關於說基隆附近有很多砲台也有很多戰爭的遺址那以前保存 現在還是很努力在保存但是很可惜就是說"},{"start":4522.947,"end":4537.061,"text":"就是我們這一輩的或是我們下一代對於戰爭的不管戰爭的了解還是戰爭的想法也好並沒有說那麼明確的能夠可以看到也就是說如果我們能用AR或VR"},{"start":4537.461,"end":4557.078,"text":"去做在這些地方去把它做個復原就是說就與其說真的是用用firework用這種煙火之類倒不如說AR或VR再做長時間的復原一方面可以把整個一方面是可以把港口文化把它講得更好基隆的地方文化講得更好另外一方面可以把過去的軍事文化"},{"start":4557.919,"end":4576.701,"text":"跟整個海洋文化就是海洋大爭霸我們剛剛講大航海時代那一塊為什麼港口是很重要的這一塊像是我個人就知道說基隆的砲台其實有分三種遠砲 中砲跟近砲可是這些砲台在不同的地方的時候要把這些故事說得活靈活現除非遇到這些齊老而且是對歷史觀"},{"start":4577.802,"end":4595.232,"text":"很有感觸的其老不然還真不容易去把它當成講說當初親當初為什麼法國軍隊那麼強大的那麼強大的世界海軍進來機種之後居然打不下來這件事情所以我會個人認為說如果我們現有21世紀的科技的那剛剛我看到萬美林"},{"start":4596.572,"end":4617.405,"text":"萬維園也在質詢現在用AI的科技是可以在不管是Meet Journey也好還是說創作詞作曲也好都是有一定程度的威脅但是也是因為有一定程度的幫助那這一點來講的話我們AR或VR是不是可以用在建請文化部在基隆的某些場址上面未來利用AR跟VR技術把這過去的戰爭戰爭絕對不是好事"},{"start":4625.169,"end":4649.111,"text":"但是過去戰爭發生的狀況戰爭過去發生的一些現況把它重複把它重現在我們讓我們現人知道說為我們基隆為什麼重要這一點我認為如果做得好不是只有會讓基隆的下一代或是台灣的下一代可以理解到說當初基隆在這邊為什麼這麼多歷史故事同時也可以吸引一些外國客因為畫面是最容易去"},{"start":4649.791,"end":4661.97,"text":"畫面跟影音是最容易去吸引人的東西但用這種方式來去把過去的戰爭歷史跟戰爭文化甚至海洋文化讓更多人知道甚至讓國際知道部長您覺得這是否可行"},{"start":4662.751,"end":4689.926,"text":"我覺得這建議非常好因為基隆除了大航海時代的歷史之外戰後的歷史在基隆也非常特別許多人來台灣之後也是第一個登陸的港口就是基隆剛剛提到ARV我們會朝著這個構想來做而且它不只是ARV它還可以影視題材也不錯譬如電影或者漫畫我們漫畫其實最近這幾年都朝著歷史發展"},{"start":4690.726,"end":4706.842,"text":"委員剛剛這個建議我想我會鼓勵漫畫家或者文學家或者影視工作者還有剛剛講的ARV這種文化科技去把這段歷史去重視它因為裡面可以講的故事非常多而且是來自民間的故事非常精彩"},{"start":4707.764,"end":4717.918,"text":"謝謝委員的這個提醒好 謝謝部長那最後面剛剛也是剛剛部長自己有破題了那我就順便先提一下因為明年是西班牙來基隆400年的週年慶那"},{"start":4722.725,"end":4742.739,"text":"部長也講過說去年台南400年去年對吧去年台版400年展那其實非常的非常的成功那也是見請部長說在這邊能夠的話可不可以就是盡量比照辦理說台南去年怎麼樣幫台南辦好那明年怎麼樣幫我們基隆西班牙來台400年其實這一個案子其實"},{"start":4743.539,"end":4764.271,"text":"不只是說對我們自己我們基隆有深深的意義對於中華民國對於台灣在這塊土地上的歷史有很重要的含義更重要的是可以把我們基隆台灣從一般的亞洲的地圖上面整個擴散到世界地圖上面我記得沒有錯的話1626年好像是那個時候好像是西班牙還在天主教戰爭"},{"start":4765.871,"end":4790.18,"text":"還在天主教戰爭而且同時之間是西班牙好像跟英國還在海上爭霸的時候那時候西班牙的輝煌那時候西班牙的一些戰略佈局那時候西班牙的一些政策決策我覺得都可以把它拿來做我們這次四百年基隆四百年海極式門路的特展上面我覺得這樣去做的話我想"},{"start":4790.94,"end":4798.031,"text":"有機會可以把不是只有把不懂基隆人抓過來之外也可以把一些國際友人好好的拉來基隆部長您認為呢"},{"start":4798.891,"end":4825.417,"text":"是 我非常贊成而且這個是我們現在進行試因為以前的是再造歷史現在是1.0的計畫我們也做差不多了現在我們跟國發會提一個再造歷史2.0我們等它核准之後我希望我們中央跟地方一起來重建這段歷史論述包括水下資產包括很多的周邊的一些文物我們一起來做好 謝謝部長謝謝"},{"start":4829.343,"end":4835.345,"text":"好 謝謝 謝謝林沛翔委員部長請回我們接下來請劉淑冰委員有請李部長還有文化內容策進院的院長吳俊偉先生好 有請部長跟院長"},{"start":4865.441,"end":4868.385,"text":"今天您的報告當中有三個重點四個是文化政策 文化產業 還有文化建設我今天想針對的是文化產業的部分來做一個質詢"},{"start":4883.123,"end":4889.627,"text":"那文化產業之所以重要就在於說它本身就可以發揮到是個軟實力可以像經濟一樣的這樣子有發到後面的影響是在刮到觀光啊還有飲食啊還有在衣著等等的這後續的影響發揮到很大的效果那我們看到這個文化創意文化產業當中根據文化創意產業的這個發展法它有16項"},{"start":4907.599,"end":4915.165,"text":"這十六項當中文化部又把你們關鍵的內容上面五大產業就是影視產業、流行音樂、出版產業還有文創與文化科技、動畫與漫畫剛才你都有講到漫畫這一部分那我們就想要看它既然是個產業的話是不是要重視到它的產值那我們就往下看而且它產值因為很重要我今天把它的文化產業當中特別我想要把它重視到是它的內容是什麼"},{"start":4936.001,"end":4939.262,"text":"最重要是創意、生產、傳播、展示等等還有下面這些效果但是最重要是核心在於文化的內容是什麼往下看的時候我看一下這個產值大家看到這個表當中可以看到我國的情況在從2017年到2020年到2023年的時候看起來我們在文化產"},{"start":4958.731,"end":4968.396,"text":"在文創那部分的產值佔到我國的4點多趴等等的那去年的時候2023到4.78%看起來在GDP上是不錯的喔我們可是再看看因為你後面講到一個目標是什麼我們往下看那看到目標的情況之下呢您在去年就任三個月的時候提出來的是說要把"},{"start":4985.305,"end":5001.674,"text":"要借鏡韓流當作是我們的一個文化的國際就是把韓流當作我們的目標然後變成說文化把它視為國家的戰略把台流要推向到國際來那這個地方我想您對韓流一定是有相當的有一點研究才會說出這樣的話那我就在想說請問部長你認為韓國文化產業有哪些優勢呢"},{"start":5009.141,"end":5035.956,"text":"我想那個一個國家會推動文化產業跟國家的制度有關係韓國我非常清楚他是在2000年之後那個之前是金大中選上推翻了一個獨裁政權之後他領悟到說這個文化的產值會超過一些其他產業的可能性從那開始就推動這個韓流那推動的方式他就是鼓動自己政府用很多的經費之外"},{"start":5036.556,"end":5059.287,"text":"鼓動整個民間投資所以滾動民間投資讓大家知道這個文化也是一筆好生意可以讓國家帶來非常多的這個外匯那個一旦覺醒之後所有的民間的企業就投入創造了今天已經永遠超過各國的這個產值的一個寒流好 謝謝部長那下一頁我們來看看"},{"start":5060.367,"end":5063.469,"text":"這個部分當然我們先要剪斷一下我們台灣目前的文化產業的部分你可以看到在這個表當中藍色的部分是我們的外銷的產值那這個在我們整個的文化的產值當中大概占到十分之一左右外銷只占十分之一甚至不到這個情況那我們再往下看"},{"start":5083.16,"end":5096.498,"text":"距離說因為它發生像寒流或是說要以後台流的這個一個影響力的話呢絕對還要很大很大的要去發展還要在這個推展的空間那我們現在再看看剛才部長你有講到就是說政府的補助跟"},{"start":5098.14,"end":5102.286,"text":"跟企業這邊有些合作的部分讓他去推展這邊看到在2000年開始的時候含有這個情況好那我們現在看看台灣的情況是怎麼樣呢台灣在你的文化的這個產業當中目前就有16項裡面GDP要佔到4.78"},{"start":5113.762,"end":5123.967,"text":"可是我去看到在南韓的部分它一項的就所謂的Culture Content Industry這部分就至上在我們16項裡面大概只要一項大多或是一兩項這一部分加進來的時候它就超過7%的這個產值然後已經超過我們的兩兆台幣的話是這樣的狀況所以的確我們都還要很大的進步空間那我再定位的就是說再去"},{"start":5137.113,"end":5148.979,"text":"追究他為什麼會造成這樣的原因的情況之下就在說你說的沒有錯政策的部分資金的募集然後還有就是在政策上面文化自信多體緣多長而且表情的細膩等等還有國際的影響力那我們就繼續再往下看這部分我想要也許就填填看這個情況"},{"start":5154.221,"end":5161.284,"text":"我之前跟部長你交換過意見的時候就提到是說韓劇啊他2000年開始對不對從一個醫療關懷的時候就看得到是什麼從大產經人的關懷古代的時候然後到螞蟻對動物的關懷到太陽的後裔到聯合國的peace keeping的往外去做這樣然後到現在醫生生活這部分那這邊都是同樣的就是他的創意在這邊那我們現在往下看我想跟大家講的是說想要請問部長的是說如果你要支持台流的情況那你的市場定位是怎麼樣"},{"start":5185.472,"end":5210.747,"text":"我想資產地位一定是全世界都可以接受台流我們才可能生存下來而且是你剛才講GDP的問題但是我們先以亞洲國家作為第一個考量所以我們的國際合作裡面有蠻多是亞洲國家包括日本、越南等等然後第二個合作對象就是歐洲、法國、德國、英國等等"},{"start":5211.207,"end":5216.671,"text":"還有美國資金資本的這個運作的來源的部分那有設計國發基金對不對這個這部分國發基金的這個內容那我想請問一下那個國策院就是院長因為那邊成立的文化內容策進院那這邊請問這個國發基金這部分有100億也是蠻好的那我們從你們這個報告當中其實也看到有一些的包括評估啦然後包括他這次還有退場嘛"},{"start":5238.868,"end":5249.259,"text":"那我想要問的是說你們現在目前的評估是這個有沒有在說評估到什麼情況他可以繼續留下來然後什麼時候是不能留下來的那為什麼維持了十年才讓他退場"},{"start":5251.019,"end":5277.144,"text":"跟委員報告因為我們國發基金的投資的這個退場的規定是比照國發基金母基金的規定那它就是頭七年之後會又利用三年的時間來做退場那這個退場包含說它被下一階段投資人投資或者是往上市櫃來發展大概有多元的這個退場的機制那當然我們都很希望說從這個因為國發基金比較像是國家策略性的投資它希望在這個公司初期成長階段就能夠盡早"},{"start":5278.264,"end":5305.001,"text":"提供資金進場的這樣支持機制那也就是委員所提到韓國其實也有相關的這種類似國發基金的國家投資的資金也來支持這個產業的發展那我想政府的資金是蠻重要的跟委員報告那這一部分希望說在這個內容評鑑上面的時候事實上應該是核心在說什麼叫做台灣等於說事實上下面要問的問題要往下繼續看其他部分我們繼續往下看我們做出來的這樣的結果是看到其實是可能應該有階段性我們是期許自己剛剛"},{"start":5305.862,"end":5312.006,"text":"市場定位在東南亞、亞洲、歐洲等等可以看到但是我們看到韓國這部分定位在好萊塢的商業當然是它從2000年一直發展到現在已經20多年的效果等等另外我現在想說可能要引進所謂的私人企業如果說像國策院提到的私人基金目前還是以國家的資金去講的時候"},{"start":5331.599,"end":5343.371,"text":"要去做這個效益的評估事實上要增加的我想說這部分能不能提供三年之內的對於國策院所接受的這個案子或是說國發基金所這個案子當中可以提供這個相關的申請然後最後結果然後報告評估的報告給我們可以嗎"},{"start":5349.562,"end":5373.85,"text":"應該是可以因為我們這個文車業已經做了五年所以整個機制蠻清楚的所以這個報告應該是非常簡單的好那幫忙來報告一些行銷策略當中像Netflix這些部分國際串流的部分那我們繼續往下看好那台流這部分剛才說何時會結束那我可以問一下這個地方那你台流在發展的時候你覺得還欠缺哪些因素讓它可以再發展起來我覺得台流真的開始慢慢"},{"start":5379.257,"end":5398.514,"text":"譬如說你講今年你打開那個OTD看台劇幾乎是大爆發了而且它的那個品質跟內容是跟韓劇跟日劇是或者是中國大陸的劇是完全不同的台灣經過很長一段時間的文化融合以後其實看到了台流"},{"start":5399.235,"end":5413.965,"text":"是在今年或者去年他非常的清楚不太一樣文化部要做的是反而是要提供足夠的資金跟OTT平台讓他可以有地方可以演出所以大概是這樣"},{"start":5415.188,"end":5430.446,"text":"所以這樣的情況之下也許預計大概至少大概可能再花個15年到20年是不是這樣的意思我很難講說15年20年我們每一個產業我都有一個大概的想像他大概譬如說漫畫漫畫我們距離日本"},{"start":5431.667,"end":5449.681,"text":"韓國非常遙遠台灣人買台灣的漫畫大概只占日本漫畫的百分之三就跟剛才講的GDP差不多那我們努力三年內可以辦一個國際漫畫展但是在什麼時候可以超過韓國日本這個就當然努力啊所以這個時間點我覺得當然要加快"},{"start":5452.463,"end":5470.811,"text":"但是加快的條件就是要給我們足夠的資源像100億的這個資金就是我非常感謝這個國發會立刻投入我們的第二個100億因為我們這些選區跟韓國投資來比還是非常少的所以我希望政府能夠大力的給我們更多的預算"},{"start":5476.076,"end":5487.649,"text":"這個部分可能還是有需要再做具體的時間性可能像剛才說的只占到十分之一左右是不是可以大概說到也許在五年到十年之間的情況之下大概至少半到"},{"start":5489.09,"end":5513.948,"text":"20%左右的這個產值不然的話你要說到跟要距離韓流的話實際上還很久這個情況那我剛才已經抽到這一些部分那時間關係我只是再提到一個部分就是大概30秒就結束就是說你這個target是不是在上面這邊往下到在所謂的因為外交部有提到要提到說部部都能夠推轉外交那您對於在文化在外交上面有什麼樣的一個期許呢"},{"start":5515.024,"end":5541.927,"text":"我覺得現在就台灣目前的現狀來講文化外交變得非常非常重要外交部長也今年用了我們文化部的一個國外交的那個團展去當奧地利的那個大使我跟他最近也談了很多今年很多的合作計畫我希望台灣的文化部可以扮演一個把台灣文化推向國際之後也幫助了台灣的外交"},{"start":5542.868,"end":5566.913,"text":"進行文化外交這點說起來其實非常重要所以我還是那句話希望多給我們一點預算尤其是外交方面的需要很多的錢部長我覺得您說可能給錢事實上合理的都是必要性的但是問題是台灣文化content那個內容是什麼這部分如果像你過去有曾經提到的是都是"},{"start":5567.993,"end":5594.131,"text":"一天一天的把它批出來就是只要發包出去或是說競標之後拿進來這樣的情況之下可是本身它是不是承襲了過去的從原住民的到華倫的然後在日本的在西方的文明這部分你要可能要確認這個文化內涵是什麼如果你內涵不夠要做我剛剛說的content的不重要沒有把它核心撞起來的話其實是不夠的沒有辦法去吸引人的我想你要特別要注意到你覺得這樣的我的認為或是簡單問一下台灣文化的內涵是什麼"},{"start":5598.974,"end":5619.475,"text":"我曾經去請教過委員委員的見解我非常同意就是文化本身是一個長期因為地理環境跟政治制度所留下來產生的新東西譬如說我舉個例子大家一直在講中華文化中華文化如果留在台灣一個民主社會的制度跟留在中國"},{"start":5620.436,"end":5648.118,"text":"大陸那個獨裁政治所發展出來的文化就是不一樣那我覺得這是一個台灣非常好的機會我很有信心台灣經過這麼漫長的一個歷史的來來去去的文化台灣已經開始很有自己的能量創造出自己的文化你可以 我剛才講台劇 漫畫 文學你可以看到非常清楚它就是可以跟韓國 中國 日本區隔這就是文化"},{"start":5648.638,"end":5649.319,"text":"中華文化是一個蠻抽象的名詞"},{"start":5664.841,"end":5691.619,"text":"它歷經了幾千年的那種不同種族所產生的東西它來到台灣之後在台灣一個民主制度下它融合了非常多原住民的就像您剛才講的原住民的 西方的 日本的那個不是我想說中華文化如果留下來我就很想聽到這一部OK 那我想跟你聽嘛我覺得我們一直把中華文化跟台灣文化是形成一個對立的我覺得台灣文化跟中華文化是一個對話的"},{"start":5693.28,"end":5709.942,"text":"那中華文化是在台灣文化裡面一個部分我覺得我們會保留它比較好的可是這個中華文化在中國大陸是變成一個統戰工具它是一個工具它不是文化它也不是中國的營養這一點我一直要重複地要講"},{"start":5710.763,"end":5732.369,"text":"所以我覺得文道我最後一句就在說您說了台灣保留了中華文化非常好的部分是確定的嘛對不對在一個民主自由的在民主制度下任何文化都會朝下一個比較善良的比較正面的東西任何一個文化在一個獨裁政權它會變扭曲成一個工具而且缺少真誠的感覺"},{"start":5733.649,"end":5748.176,"text":"好 非常好 謝謝我們台灣真的是中華文化裡面可以發展的一個重要的基地好 謝謝 那當然台灣文化不只是包括中華文化還包括所有的歷史的包括日本的 美國的 原住民的好 謝謝好 謝謝劉淑冰委員 部長請回我們接下來請葛如君召委"},{"start":5766.96,"end":5772.136,"text":"好 謝謝主席有請文化部李遠部長好 有請李部長"},{"start":5778.172,"end":5807.031,"text":"各位你好部長早賴清德總統已經在3月21號公布了我們的總預算那今年呢我想文化部也增加了20幾億啦那我知道各個部會這個虛前恐急所以我也一直非常關注我們解凍的進度在一開始分配部會的時候就有跟林寅醒召委也溝通過了希望我們這個有機會可以成為一個大解凍會期那我這兩天呢也就關注這件事啦也向文化部詢問"},{"start":5808.372,"end":5831.608,"text":"結果文化部說早就已經準備好要來解凍預算了首先想再次向部長確認文化部是不是有確實準備好要來解凍預算了什麼時候可以把解凍案送進來謝謝委員問這個問題我從兩個面向來回答這個問題對不起 部長請直接回答是不是準備好什麼時候送進來"},{"start":5833.015,"end":5847.171,"text":"可是我還是很想我沒有要讓部長你做大外宣我現在很平和但是請明確回答是不是準備好什麼時候送解凍案進來我還沒準備好因為如果你看到我們被解凍被那個凍結的那個量我這邊手上一堆"},{"start":5850.735,"end":5878.337,"text":"因為這個凍結太多 多到我們外市寫這個報告會花掉我們所有時間對不起 部長 你要用手中的一張A4紙要告訴我們全台灣的藝文界文化部很需要錢 卻沒有準備好要來解凍預算嗎你是要這樣告訴全國民眾嗎還是 是不是因為有人卡在我們的主席台讓我們沒有辦法好好的來解凍預算你們有沒有這樣的擔憂呢"},{"start":5880.018,"end":5901.254,"text":"是不是這個原因呢 到底發生什麼事情呢其實很多事情它都有一個來龍去脈今年的那個凍結是多到 最後都算不清楚多到了 那你要先從前面開始處理嘛那有沒有要送進來 有沒有要送第一個案子我覺得我們的預算的問題 從你委員開始的第一句話"},{"start":5902.509,"end":5925.082,"text":"我就很想解釋我們哪裡有多26億那你今年的預算是不是增加的我說20多億啊是不是增加的我以下的話全部請大家錄音我不會講錯我們今年編的預算跟去年差不多我們被刪了11億沒有什麼差不多編的預算到底是多還是少沒有差不多部長編的預算比去年多兩三億可是經過了"},{"start":5930.525,"end":5936.41,"text":"刪掉10億然後動了34億我們絕對沒有多26億但是我想部長這兩天您最熱門的新聞就確實在預算啦您拿了一個碗公到處說自己不是要飯的本席鄭重在此表示您當然不是要飯的您是煮飯的"},{"start":5954.909,"end":5981.878,"text":"您是中華民國月領二十萬四千三百二十元然後年薪超過兩百五十萬手握將近三百億文化預算的文化部部長根據你們提供的資料你們凍結的五億當中有四億也就是凍結數量當中的八成"},{"start":5983.26,"end":6008.894,"text":"都是可以書面解凍的只要文化部書面報告送進來這些錢立刻就可以使用另外還有委員會部分凍結1.1億元院會部分凍結28億元雖然是專案報告後解凍但是我們本來認為你們都準備好了結果您剛剛告訴我你沒有準備好"},{"start":6009.946,"end":6032.175,"text":"我也相信現在坐在台上的林錦昭委一定全力支持文化部來解凍預算但是您竟然不斷地身居高位拿著全體國民的納稅錢的捧路手握300億的文化預算拿了晚工到處走透透說自己不是要飯的我要在此說 部長"},{"start":6033.155,"end":6060.18,"text":"當然不是要飯的 您是煮飯的你要讓整個文化產業蒸蒸日上你不只要煮飯 你還要蒸飯你還要拿飯粒出來 要解凍飯要把整個產業做起來結果您剛剛在跟我說沒準備好我們剛剛也錄音啦那我想喔 這個部長什麼時候解凍案我再給您回應一次有沒有什麼時候可以把解凍案送進來書面報告八成喔"},{"start":6065.629,"end":6089.831,"text":"主席時間暫停我希望讓部長回答什麼時候送進來你不能一句話說好多解凍案就不能做學生做好多功課可以說不教功課嗎委員可不可以讓我講一句所謂的解凍有解凍的條件書面報告我剛剛已經說了八成是書面報告如果解凍的條件我做不到怎麼辦譬如說有一個解凍的理由是有一筆錢給到社會清了"},{"start":6090.732,"end":6116.323,"text":"請把錢要回來交出公務員我做一個文化部長我會犧牲公務員嗎所以我想解凍不是這麼簡單好 謝謝部長讓你解釋了那我就問你什麼時候送進來第一個案子什麼時候送進來你一個都沒辦法解凍嗎所以您在這裡要告訴全體國民你一個案子都解凍不了嗎你一個書面報告都做不出來嗎有一些案子也是民進黨委員提案的喔這不是黨派的問題喔"},{"start":6120.717,"end":6141.476,"text":"部長時間沒有辦法提出沒有關係我知道您心裡在想什麼我知道行政院下達什麼樣的指令我們不要講這個沒關係預算的部分我們剛才已經說明我們還有待會還有機會您再說明好不好談到預算我想除了文化部應該要積極解凍以外近來媒體也頻頻報導"},{"start":6142.617,"end":6157.954,"text":"央廣有爆發造假、詐領的爭議每年政府的補助金額超過央廣收入的八成結果我們看到這份報告一直拒絕提供直到有非常多委員去爭取了以後才提供出來"},{"start":6159.554,"end":6181.58,"text":"部長我們人民不值得去了解真相嗎我們不值得嗎我們先說我們還是很謝謝央廣很謝謝文化部提供出來啦我們就相信是值得的那我就請問部長這個乍領案除了委外調查花了百萬當然還是很感謝公開文化部的政風單位有沒有進行行政調查有或沒有"},{"start":6187.541,"end":6194.807,"text":"這邊的報告是110就開始有行政調查有行政調查然後之後送到檢調單位是 行政調查為什麼不能提供行政調查的內容我們向文化部索取啊現在會計調查我們花了四年好不容易要到了行政調查為什麼不能提供"},{"start":6214.437,"end":6236.149,"text":"那個你們要求那個會計調查報告我們有索取啊文化部沒有提供啊有吧現在哪一位委員手上有拿到的文化部哪一個官員有提出的現在立刻說出來主席那個時間可不可以暫停一下我們確認我真的不想要冤枉我們的公務同仁有沒有提供行政調查的報告時間暫停 謝謝可以嗎 主席"},{"start":6241.519,"end":6264.426,"text":"等一下 我再多給你時間就好好 謝謝主席 不好意思 請很抱歉 跟委員報告 央廣所做的調查都已經通過董事會也向文化部提出我說向全民提供啊 立法委員索取能不能提供為什麼拒不提供關心的立法委員索取我們都提供了再去識別不影響...行政調查不是會計調查 行政調查結果"},{"start":6266.482,"end":6279.532,"text":"行政調查在央廣的部分已經有人當年就記過而且鎖回這個部分我們可以提供資料謝謝請問文化部部長我們能不能索取行政調查的報告委員請索取"},{"start":6284.114,"end":6304.865,"text":"所以拜託提供一下那另外我想這個弊案爆發以後113年文化部再次按表操課結果113年做這個實地查核每三年做一次結果已經發生了這麼多年了107年110年相比完全沒有增加任何的查核項目請問文化部要如何確定相同的弊案不會再發生部長"},{"start":6306.55,"end":6323.061,"text":"你一再的宣講一再的講到預算本席要再次的強調我們就是要來監督的我們的民主社會就是要有監督制衡的力量這些錢都是人民的血汗錢部長您年薪超過250萬央廣董事長年薪超過180萬兩位合計的年薪超過430萬結果文化部拿出這樣的績效民眾會滿意嗎我想這個"},{"start":6331.327,"end":6358.418,"text":"不管是要實地增加查核的次數跟查核的項目文化部本身修改作業要點就可以做到我們可以讓這件事情不要再發生甚至要去查核其他的有沒有相關類似的狀況在其他的單位發生文化部不能再行政帶墮下去部長您全台宣講的時候不斷的攜帶一個晚工說是要飯我再一次希望能夠讓部長知道您不是要飯的您是煮飯的所以我今天"},{"start":6359.656,"end":6382.506,"text":"特別準備了一個我們台灣七八十年代的臉盆Made in Taiwan來自賴清德總統長期久待的台南本席特別利用今天的這個機會想要把這個家喻戶曉非常常見文化的物件臉盆當作一個聚寶盆送給部長"},{"start":6383.766,"end":6403.679,"text":"您絕對不是要飯的您是煮飯的你是要創造機會的你是要把錢放大的你是要放到整個產業來所有的弊案我們不要讓它再發生要像聚寶盆一樣百倍千倍的成長這個價值不是煮飯的您是要"},{"start":6404.64,"end":6429.963,"text":"您不是要飯的 您是要煮飯的您是要聚寶盆 您是要用這個盆子來打水來煮飯讓我們整個產業真正日上再來我想這個我反正當作禮物送給您了我希望能夠讓您知道部長您這個跑透透啦也希望您偶爾可以看一下網路民間的聲音我們仔細看了一下您今天的報告"},{"start":6431.73,"end":6458.497,"text":"這份報告裡面14次提到人才培育但是很抱歉裡面完全沒有對於維護藝文工作者的勞動權益去說明隻字未提部長您知道嗎你每天拿著晚工去宣講的時候這個所謂的靠北藝術的粉專上面你會發現低薪高工時已經是藝文工作者面臨到的常態而且不好意思部長"},{"start":6459.477,"end":6466.022,"text":"我真的要告訴您文化部本身居然就是剝削藝文工作者的慣老闆之一這邊不聞提到這個這個一個專案助理文化部聘用的碩士學歷起薪不到4萬塊不到4萬塊"},{"start":6479.946,"end":6492.839,"text":"我們確認了一下我們上文化部人士服務網一查還真的碩士級助理起薪不到4萬另外一篇頗文提到如果是受聘於派遣機構我不管你是什麼學歷畢業的28590塊"},{"start":6497.483,"end":6522.713,"text":"兩萬八千五百九十塊部長當你領著二十萬的月薪你在台上高呼你不是要飯的人我不曉得這群長期忍受低薪高工時還在為藝術燃燒生命的文化人才這是財已經變成柴火的柴他們的內心做了感想隨便上網一查我真的不是在錯怪文化部我們幫您比較過了我們上網一查文化部"},{"start":6524.714,"end":6547.817,"text":"國教署的專案計劃專任助理碩士級起薪超過4萬國科會專任助理碩士級起薪高於4萬部長一樣是專案助理為什麼藝文工作者不能享有和其他行業一樣的待遇為什麼文化部不能像其他部會一樣在薪資待遇上表現出對專業應有的尊重為什麼你可不可以在這裡回答我"},{"start":6549.97,"end":6563.679,"text":"這些薪水我其實大概都知道有的是研究員他完全按照政府原來的那個我們的薪水其實很呆板就是按照政府規定的那個錢但是我承認他不高但是我也想藉這個機會"},{"start":6565.02,"end":6586.413,"text":"要跟您講第一個我沒有全台走透透第二個您不斷的提到我的高薪說我個人坐領高薪跟坐領高位這樣是不對的因為我每個禮拜的工作七天我如果不來上班的話我在家裡自己工作都非常輕鬆的我絕對不是坐領高位坐領高薪"},{"start":6587.273,"end":6596.834,"text":"我其實充滿了很想改變文化界的問題您講的每件事情我都很憂心但是我絕對不是一個坐領高薪坐領高位的"},{"start":6598.842,"end":6620.1,"text":"我收回做領這兩個字但是您是領高興沒錯我們還是要強調不好意思主席再給我幾分鐘我想我們的這個薪資十年來文化工作者維持45萬到53萬之間您提到我們要來處理這些問題我們真的是要來好好的來關照一下"},{"start":6620.54,"end":6645.991,"text":"服務業的年薪增長幅度高達24%服務業全年薪資69.5萬結果我們的創作以及表演藝術全年總薪資53.3萬元我希望文化部部長部長您可不可以一週內對於如何促進藝文工作者的勞動權益我們之前還有提到健保補助等等不是健保補助就是健檢的補助能不能補充書面報告給本席"},{"start":6648.058,"end":6663.41,"text":"其實我們一直在進行這個這個諮詢跟這個結果但是你說一週內我得看看我們的同仁 兩週可不可以 多久好 真的不能再拖了其實你講的問題是我們最關心的問題是主席我最後一小段最後一小段"},{"start":6664.25,"end":6684.936,"text":"最後有一個比較先進的構想我想文化部部長也是希望能夠創新目前台灣沒有專門的機構去保障文化藝術工作者的勞動權益剛剛你也提到了韓國的文化我們可以比較韓國為例文化觀光體育部之下有設中介組織其中有專門推動藝術家福利的基金會負責提升藝術勞動的權益制定合理的契約標準希望部長能夠來比照來提出這個"},{"start":6692.403,"end":6720.754,"text":"好我想這個我們會後書面報告主席都已經站起來了最後非常感謝部長的詢答啦我希望您還是用正面的態度我們看了報告T-Comic很棒同時也拜託您幫獨立遊戲創作者去聲援一下他們最近也遇到了一些狀況也希望部長您始終都是我心目中尊敬的偶像我們一起來為台灣的文化為各種多元文化來努力好不好謝謝謝謝主席謝謝委員謝謝部長好謝謝葛如君召委部長請回"},{"start":6722.489,"end":6741.181,"text":"我們先宣告一下等一下在陳秀寶委員諮詢完之後我們休息十分鐘然後我們後面我們這個後面那幅畫是文化部提供是我們那個台灣藝術家陳一如的畫作未知新喜那我想"},{"start":6741.881,"end":6764.049,"text":"在所有的委員會的審查會議室裡頭也只有我們教育委員會有這樣的畫作欣賞每個會期我們會更換一幅畫我們再次謝謝文化部提供這樣的一個畫作好 那我們是不是下一位請林月琴委員 那時間四分鐘 謝謝主席麻煩我們的文化部部長好 有請李部長"},{"start":6777.712,"end":6806.719,"text":"部長早今天我還是想延續過去我對文化部的質詢聚焦在我一直非常關心的重點我們的文化政策到底有沒有提供給我們的兒童跟青少年夠優質更貼近他們的需求跟興趣的電視節目跟藝文活動那我待會看到聽完部長的報告我也看到一些努力就給予肯定像114年你們就增加了少年節目"},{"start":6807.259,"end":6824.311,"text":"那下一頁部長今年的文化幣擴及到國中生我覺得是一件非常好的事情可是錢發了到底給青少年的多元藝文活動的節目在哪裡這是我想問的文化部除了我們的扶持我們的影視產業"},{"start":6825.512,"end":6843.273,"text":"那來到劇場呢事實上兒童劇算非常多甚至你們的報告裡面還有提到說你們要培養兒童劇團那可是我們看到兒童劇已經非常多可是青少年專屬的作品就少得可憐所以北一大的老師有提出來是說三年來可能不到十部"},{"start":6843.914,"end":6867.373,"text":"而我們要如何鼓勵青少年走出螢幕走到劇場參與體驗跟更多元的藝文活動可是看韓國他們像這個有貞與有貞這樣聚焦在青少年生活而且觸及到我們性剝削議題的音樂劇那他現在也來台灣演出即將已經演完了所以而且叫好又叫座所以"},{"start":6868.214,"end":6873.464,"text":"我想問部長文化部怎麼去補這個落差讓我們的青少年劇團創作你打算怎麼扶持"},{"start":6877.167,"end":6903.645,"text":"謝謝委員問這個問題其實這個有關青少年這個戲劇跟那個團體還有讓青少年走進來看這個表演一直是我們文化部非常非常努力在做的事情那今天我們也推出了幾個文化部表演藝術青少年節目開發的申請這是過去沒有的在2025年1月6號到2月14號辦理目前已經截止而且也選出來"},{"start":6907.568,"end":6926.762,"text":"這個部分過去大概沒有在做不過我覺得我們辦公室跟這個計畫的審查委員去了解計畫的提案數相對的是少的那提案劇團多數不熟青少年的需求甚至他們偏好是什麼而且不了解青少年的議題跟生活缺乏在地的原創劇本"},{"start":6928.303,"end":6951.107,"text":"所以導致呢可審的案件非常有限所以想問部長這補助案要如何跳脫曇花一線設定長期目標而且甚至我覺得如果你有已經你的報告裡面有培養兒童劇團那我不知道為什麼不能去扶持我們的有關的青少年劇團就完全是為了青少年演出的更貼近他們的"},{"start":6951.887,"end":6981.187,"text":"創作跟內容的我覺得這應該要去想的啦為什麼這麼停啊因為很多劇場工作者跟學者都告訴我劇本是一個一出戲的靈魂要有打動青少年的演出就要為他們而寫的內容為他們而寫那有他們聲音所以我兩個具體的建議部長可不可以參考看看就是說在表演藝術青少年你現在已經一月就開始了我還是很肯認這個非常棒的可是呢"},{"start":6981.847,"end":6996.482,"text":"是不是今年如果在整個的過程當中甚至到最後結果的時候成果的時候可不可以納入青少年跟青年聚場工作者來參與整個你的方案的整個的檢視讓青少年的使用者的意見"},{"start":6997.731,"end":7016.017,"text":"能夠進得了公共的決策現場這是我第一個那第二個就是從源頭補劇本也就是沒有屬於青少年的劇本就不會有屬於他們的劇場的風景我相信部長非常了解所以建議文化部推動中央跟地方的文學獎"},{"start":7017.337,"end":7040.856,"text":"普色舞台劇劇本創作這個項目還有呢同時鼓勵增加青少年主題的類別甚至可不可以考量一下參照台南文學獎增加青少年組引導更多的創作者投入這塊缺口因為我看過很多高中生他們自導自演還蠻不錯的很精彩而且他們不是只觀眾他們也是一個創作者啦所以這個"},{"start":7041.716,"end":7069.691,"text":"希望部長能夠考慮最後大概就是以剛才我提的這兩個我希望部長這邊是不是可以一個月內給我這個報告我剛剛提出來的委員剛剛講幾個問題都是我們最關心而且我們正在執行的譬如把漫畫文學舞台劇下降到高中生他們也參與創作這個我們都正在做我想我們立刻給你提一個報告要培養人才謝謝部長謝謝"},{"start":7074.073,"end":7077.554,"text":"好 謝謝 謝謝林委員接下來請林益謹召委諮詢好 謝謝主席 有請李部長請部長"},{"start":7096.11,"end":7122.707,"text":"林委員您好好 部長好剛剛國務軍召委在指責您拿那個挖工啦齁其實我是還蠻替您抱屈的喔因為您是在替藝文工作者所有影視工作者抱不平是因為當初陳玉珍委員說請他們丟掉那支要飯的碗"},{"start":7123.988,"end":7131.631,"text":"那國民黨的這些同委員們如果認為陳玉珍這句話是失言那他們那時候為什麼沒有出來譴責所以我覺得這個另外我覺得剛剛也一直在提說為什麼你們這個解凍的這個溯源報告還不趕快送進來"},{"start":7145.197,"end":7157.711,"text":"殊不知他們國民黨他們立法院韓國瑜主政的立法院2月19號才送出國家總預算那被他們亂山亂動的這個國家總預算2月19號才送出來那難道我們"},{"start":7163.137,"end":7182.814,"text":"現在要叫我們就要馬上寫出完整的報告難道我們要像國民黨一樣這種提案預算提案都這樣亂寫一通嗎所以我想這個我想我要藉這個機會要做一些說明我想今天我們來提到所謂的文化建設"},{"start":7183.575,"end":7207.343,"text":"其實文化建設大不易 必路難旅那從1920年代台灣第一批接受現代化教育的知識分子就開始活躍起來所以台灣人的意識也在那個時候開始萌芽那當時的行動者就發現其實文化實際上是一個抵抗殖民政策的戰場所以才必須要建設台灣的文化而不是純粹的模仿中國"},{"start":7210.277,"end":7231.947,"text":"也唯有這樣子我們才能所謂的真正獨當一面來促進社會的進步那這種在文化工作上的努力其實我們至今也沒有停止過那台灣人的努力也常常成為政治打壓的目標就如同日本殖民者透過黃民化的運動那試圖改造台灣人這個文化的認同那持續"},{"start":7233.468,"end":7260.275,"text":"殖民地體制的中國國民黨他就長期利用黨國的教育來貶低台灣的文化到了2025的今天同樣又是中國國民黨又利用思想的審查政治懲戒的方式來大煽大動我們台灣珍貴的文化資產那這一次文化部預算總共被刪除11億凍結了34億那其中媒體宣傳費"},{"start":7261.895,"end":7285.453,"text":"更是全部被刪除所以不只導致說今年的大阪世界博覽會的相關宣傳活動必須全面停止文化幣跟黃牛房市的費用也要停擺就連推廣閱讀搶救舒適的這種相關宣傳活動同樣也要止步甚至說連民間團體藝文工作者思想"},{"start":7286.554,"end":7306.875,"text":"和我們的政治參與自由國民黨都可以透過這樣的砍山預算來威脅所以我實在是不理解國民黨到底跟我們台灣文化有多大的深仇大恨好 那今天的業務報告當中文化部也有提到說今年的預算被山洞的幅度相當的大"},{"start":7307.495,"end":7320.836,"text":"對文化部的工作業務推動造成相當大的衝擊所以我想藉這個機會請部長說明一下說我們今年的預算動砍您最痛心之處在哪裡那未來你要怎麼樣因應部長"},{"start":7323.197,"end":7344.356,"text":"我最痛心之處非常多剛剛您講到那個媒體宣傳費刪掉5943萬其實刪到最後還付100萬要我們從別的地方再拿100萬來就是說我難過的不是說我錢變少因為錢變少我只要少做一點就可以我難過的是他們在刪的時候"},{"start":7345.157,"end":7361.734,"text":"他完全沒有道理的刪一些我完全不懂為什麼要刪這些因為刪這些只有針對我們公務機關的公務員的工作造成困擾比如國內外旅費水電委辦特別費造成我們很大的困擾"},{"start":7363.639,"end":7390.765,"text":"譬如說我舉個例子我們去年跟人家簽約的一些我們團體要出國了那個旅費不夠你知道我們怎麼辦嗎我們找企業家贊助我們最近要跟京都辦一個漫畫館只有五萬塊錢的預算只剩下五萬塊錢的交通費他們來找我說部長怎麼辦我說我也沒辦法難道最後是要自己掏腰包嗎最後找企業一個國家一個文化部要做到這個程度"},{"start":7391.525,"end":7417.749,"text":"要去跟企業贊助所以我有時候實在講不清楚我那個難過就是你一直說我有三百億我沒有啊我們的文化預算一直是很少的占全部的總預算不到一長年以來台灣的文化從以前到現在它就是一個蠻弱勢的那在這個情況下你不但不能傷我的你還得給我多一點你要知道預算的編列不是你想像中要編多少就編多少"},{"start":7418.629,"end":7446.474,"text":"當初我們在編預算的時候就算是跟行政院主計處跟行政院長都是一點一點要來的多要一點多要一點他絕對不是一個說看你高興編一點一點要來然後在文化委員會我想主席你也在現場文化委員會本來要砍多少錢我們站起來一直辯論一直理性的辯論爭取到每一毛錢都不要刪掉最後我們算多少呢算兩千萬"},{"start":7448.403,"end":7471.626,"text":"兩千萬是經過多餐時間討論的結果這兩千萬不抵他們的一算一算就要八十億八十億後來我們去求他要求他說我們一定要這個錢你不能不給我們最後變成最後答案是三十一億動三十四億三十一億跟動三十四億跟前面的兩千萬差多少"},{"start":7472.266,"end":7487.177,"text":"這就是我難過的地方因為他最後刪到的是還是文化人的錢你少給我兩千萬我就少一團的錢你少給我兩千萬我就少四十團出國去就這麼簡單"},{"start":7489.258,"end":7508.45,"text":"你替大歲人看緊荷包你沒有看到任何荷包你只有讓大家更慘我們整個文化界充滿了焦慮本來有一些補助該過年前就拿到第一筆了過年前拿到第一筆發薪水要過一個新年的結果不但拿不到"},{"start":7509.29,"end":7530.01,"text":"過完年還拿不到我當然是非常焦慮囉我非常焦慮因為最後大家就會怪到我們說你為什麼不爭取預算呢就是說我蠻無奈的我在這邊藉這個機會要講就是說今天不是講我還有26億我多26億都不是要講這個其實我終究有很長一段時間不想講預算要講的實在是"},{"start":7530.951,"end":7535.793,"text":"我不是來辯論預算的我是來工作的我希望趕快給我錢我們可以把這個錢用在福祉產業我們每個地方都缺錢嘛每一個行業都缺錢嘛那這個錢又不是要到我們每一個公務員的口袋都不是啊所以你刪的錢是刪到全人民的錢你並沒有幫人民看管這個荷包你是把大家該得的"},{"start":7557.642,"end":7574.788,"text":"很那個一點點卑微的那個文化的補助刪掉文化人90%都靠自己在生活啊我在文化界工作了50年欸我沒拿過政府補助我靠自己活下來同樣的許多年輕人活在這個時代他比我們過去更慘"},{"start":7575.854,"end":7601.955,"text":"因為文化的那個狀況比過去更差他們必須靠自己去打工賺錢當家教當無本我講過了他們很少能拿到公共電視的錢他們很少能拿到文化部的錢文化部是一種獎勵他不是補助來四十團只能給三團五團剩下都拿不到這是我很感謝你給我機會講這個大家有時候講來講去會把事情模糊掉這麼簡單的道理"},{"start":7603.897,"end":7620.214,"text":"嗯這就是我心頭的地方啊好 部長辛苦我想剛剛葛昭偉他也搞不好清楚一直說緊門解凍案要趕快送進來其實送進來還要從院會去院會還要交付程序文會程序文會"},{"start":7621.175,"end":7642.963,"text":"在透過這個報告事項在交付教育委員會那個還要走那個程序喔不是好像說直接送到所謂的教育委員會我們就可以馬上來排審所以我想這個也要藉著機會跟大家報告好 那我想再來借一點後面的時間來跟部長討論熱身的問題喔你也知道說我長期關心熱身那我很感謝就是說"},{"start":7644.764,"end":7662.657,"text":"我們部長有拿出願意面對熱身的誠意那明天下午一點就要由陳紀民局長來主持熱身療養院文化資產協商會議要討論一些包括登陸世界遺產、恢復熱身人口的景觀一些等等相關的計畫"},{"start":7663.638,"end":7691.697,"text":"那明天會議要開始之前我想我在這裡還是要做一些要求就是說期待說我們在明天的開會中我們應該要做的啦我想部長對這樣的誠意我是非常清楚可是我們一定要做的比過往部長至少像榮應台當初還有親自到過熱身過就是說我們對這個世界遺產潛力點要更有正面價值的處置而不是說讓熱身療養院這個問題"},{"start":7694.619,"end":7697.522,"text":"這件事情我想委員一直很關心我想請局長報告一下因為我們馬上就要開會好 局長"},{"start":7716.338,"end":7740.039,"text":"那我想大家比較關切的就是世界遺產這個議題世界遺產現在目前是我們18處世界遺產潛力點之一那我們現在部裡面也成立了第6屆的世界遺產推動會也都持續在開會那在相關的議題當中未來我們會跟我們的這有關的衛福部啦還有新北市政府因為我們資質的主管計劃是他相關的議題裡面都會適時的邀請他們來共同參與"},{"start":7742.86,"end":7766.686,"text":"那我想最後再花一點點時間就是我要跟部長討論那個華氏民股買回的相關問題我想部長你有表示就是說華氏定位的問題那解決民股買回你覺得說如果所謂的他們願意賣那當然你也就法規容許那我們也願意買所以目前到底民股買回有什麼樣的進度嗎"},{"start":7768.666,"end":7794.591,"text":"如果說公管集團沒有辦法百分之百持股的話那我們怎麼談華氏的活化的問題我想這個是不是再簡單回答一下好 目前華氏的民股占百分之十六點七六可是裡面有四家是比較大的台塑 中興 森保跟富地他們占百分之十他們曾經來公文他們願意賣而且賣的價錢就可以在我們十九年前我們開那個價格"},{"start":7796.091,"end":7810.977,"text":"但是剩下的那個零零星星個人股大概還有百分之六點七大概有九十九位股東那最近我跟胡董也坐下來聊了他認為說大概還剩兩三個就可以找到全部了"},{"start":7811.517,"end":7839.136,"text":"如果是這樣的話我想他是一個要很慎重考慮的我們政府決定要撥多少錢可以接受把民股買回來那這個民股買回來的目的是成為一個資產這個資產就歸這個公共公款集團然後我們要怎麼運用它值不值得買回來買回來之後它會不會更好這個我想不是一個好像我隨口講說買回來之後我們就把它怎麼樣怎麼樣因為它買回來之後我們要繼續怎麼做"},{"start":7841.557,"end":7867.476,"text":"然後他會不會繼續虧因為他現在已經跟銀行借了43億了嘛43億是一個不能再借錢的那個意思喔那剛剛不是講到說什麼空間不夠他就是沒有錢賺所以他會把空間盡量租出去嘛那我也很同情他因為開始虧嘛所以這個問題謝謝委員會問這個問題我很希望在有可能的至少在我任內喔往前踏一步好期待 OK 謝謝部長"},{"start":7872.047,"end":7873.689,"text":"謝謝 林怡琼召委諮詢 部長請回座那我們接下來就請陳秀寶委員諮詢謝主席 部長 請部長好 有請部長"},{"start":7895.751,"end":7913.801,"text":"蔡委員你好部長好其實講到預算的部分我就覺得很心疼也覺得部長您真的很辛苦也很無奈這個等一下我們再來討論這邊先想請教部長有關於附中的演藝工作者的指引我們什麼時候會提供其實近年來屢屢有提"},{"start":7915.121,"end":7935.392,"text":"發聲說說台灣的演藝工作者在中國的網路平台他因為配合發布中國統戰的這個圖文那我本席相信說我們台灣的民眾會很希望也會很支持文化部你們做出指引所以希望文化部這邊可以給一個我們大概什麼時候會有一個明確指引發布的時間讓我們附中的演藝工作者有所依詢"},{"start":7937.25,"end":7965.221,"text":"基本上過去我們不會針對特定的對象對他做出任何規定我們就配合那個陸委會他本身有一個對於去中國的演藝人員的一些規範那經過這一波下來之後發現那些規範可能不夠了所以我們最近有從文化部的角度擬了好幾條會希望建議給這個陸委會包括說我們的去中國發展的藝人他們如果參加"},{"start":7966.141,"end":7980.951,"text":"他們的晚會什麼如果在那個晚會中他做出對我們貶抑台灣或者是做出對我們不利的就是不要有不當的發言對 就像這種我們會變更具體然後他有些商業活動"},{"start":7981.952,"end":7996.783,"text":"有沒有附帶條件是需要再講說我是中國人台灣是中國的一部分你的商業活動裡面有沒有這個附帶條件我們會對這個事情比過去更積極一點其實會比較明確一點我建議文化部這邊你們其實在指引中可以很明確地點出違法的樣態讓相關的人員知道說什麼樣子的行為是違反了我們兩岸人民關係條例也讓相關的從業者知道說哪些行為是有疑慮的"},{"start":8010.914,"end":8035.984,"text":"所以現在文化部已經在研擬了是已經很具體了好那大概什麼時候會發布我們就會配合陸委會因為我們最近一直在談的條文更具體那我們的譬如我們行政調查是跟著陸委會走文化部他沒有調查權所以我們是要跟陸委會一起做就是配合陸委會這邊我們會配合他然後條文的修正我們也提供給他我們的意見好 謝謝部長"},{"start":8037.865,"end":8055.339,"text":"好那我們就來談一下我們文化部這邊被大規模且不合理的煽動的這個情況之下我們為了相關文化發展及宣傳很焦慮的時候其實很多的文化人卻背負著討飯要飯的這個罵名本席真的覺得非常的心疼非常的難過部長您認為"},{"start":8058.401,"end":8085.099,"text":"當申請文化部的補助我們依循著政策及國家發展的方向製作相關影視音作品這是對的嗎這是我們依循著國家政策跟國家發展方向來製作影視音作品然後我們申請文化部的補助這個方向是對的嗎一定要做因為很多產業必須靠我們政府的一些政策還有一些經費的補助其實我們補助的是整個產業啦"},{"start":8087.166,"end":8099.275,"text":"對 但是文化部呢 你們部長您認為文化部是應該只作為資源分配者不負責把關還是應該要有文化相關制定的這個方向有方針才是對的"},{"start":8100.99,"end":8126.586,"text":"基本上我們是一個言論很自由的地方我們不會特別限制送來的題材申請的題材我們嚴格限制要哪一種但是我們會從送來題材裡面挑選比較有國際性的比較商業在文化上比較深度的對於文化部來講我們不會訂條文但是我們會朝著我們希望的一個文化走向來做選擇部長針對"},{"start":8128.107,"end":8148.897,"text":"國民黨籍某立委說 受到很多文化部的檢舉案就說你們只要是不按照這個意識形態就不給補助 這個部長您說明一下其實我必須憑良心講這是胡說八道我自己經歷過一個戒嚴時代所有的輔導金 所有的評審都可以作弊有關說 我都經歷過當評審"},{"start":8151.055,"end":8169.983,"text":"到了後來2000年政黨輪替慢慢走向自由的時候我必須告訴你連我都不知道哪一部戲被選上我完全授權給評審評審選完送到我那邊來我看到那一刻我才知道是誰被選上中間完全沒有關說完全沒有壓力所以"},{"start":8170.943,"end":8181.552,"text":"說我們文化部會意識形態的控制是沒有了解台灣社會如何從一個戒嚴黨國體制走到一個多麼自由的社會"},{"start":8183.3,"end":8202.482,"text":"對 所以說針對這位立委這樣的說法是完全不正確的完全用想像的這邊其實本席要強調就是說文化部的這個經費補助其實跟很多的地方活動及地方再造是有關的那我們補助重點文化產業國家語言這個發展是我們一直在努力的目標"},{"start":8203.263,"end":8216.358,"text":"我們要把需要國家力量扶植的文化產業把對於國家文化有熱忱的文化人我們要去扶植他我們要去鼓勵他我們要去支持他但是說成是要犯賊這是非常非常傷人的"},{"start":8218.26,"end":8244.858,"text":"接下來還是要討論關於我們預算的部分我們文化外交的部分呢部長我相信你們您對我們之前我們對文化部我們這些相關的文化外交運動外交我們把視為我們重要的軟實力這個您也很認同所以你很致力很努力的在推展我們也希望透過文化的交流讓國際間看到我們台灣的活力我們台灣的創造力包容力以及展現我們民族的底蘊"},{"start":8248.26,"end":8274.039,"text":"很大的好评我们做的这个珍珠奶茶鸡排的小徽章是深受各国选手的喜爱这就是我们文化外交可爱温暖又吸引人的地方那我们本来文化部呢预计在114年8月在大阪办理的这个台湾艺文系列的展演呢9月份也会参加全球最大的新媒体艺术节就是在奥地利的林姿电子艺术节"},{"start":8275.441,"end":8291.147,"text":"本席想要請教說那這些文化外交的活動我們會不會因為預算被煽動有所影響因為我知道說外交部跟文化部是兩大完全被刪除宣傳費的重災戶那這個相關的預算被煽動之後我們"},{"start":8296.369,"end":8305.806,"text":"相關的這些活動會不會有所影響還有我們文化部橋下的博物館114年有沒有安排到國外展覽規劃然後被這些山東預算而影響的"},{"start":8307.613,"end":8326.339,"text":"我分兩個重點來講如果我們大阮世博要到日本去我們本來有編個大概兩千萬的那個沒宣費那兩千萬被刪掉之後我們就整個的宣傳片沒有其實沒宣費被刪除這件事情使得我們每件活動"},{"start":8327.239,"end":8347.811,"text":"都沒辦法宣傳這才是很重要因為你活動辦下去沒有人知道那這個很嚴重譬如文化幣我們希望更多人知道可是我沒有錢宣傳文化幣所以整個以前我們邊在預算邊在交流師要出國去補助很多人住村或者表演團體出國"},{"start":8349.432,"end":8375.102,"text":"其實那個錢說了很心酸大概都一二十萬一二十萬就這個錢你幫我一三兩千萬的話我這些團都出不去了那大阪師伯我不能宣傳了那林佳龍部長也很可憐因為他是外交部就他都不能出國他來找我們的意思就是說我們也想用兩個部的力量看能不能把這個活動做得比較多一點人知道"},{"start":8375.982,"end":8390.292,"text":"我們兩個在討論的時候都在說 你有沒有錢 我有沒有錢你可不可以多出一點你不覺得兩個這麼大的部門只是去國外做個活動要這麼可憐到互相說你可不可以多出一點這就是我其實一直在覺得這麼一點點錢都不給我們的話"},{"start":8393.334,"end":8410.865,"text":"那我們台灣的文化本來你看看去年它就已經在國外已經開花結果了表演團體 文學 各種藝術它已經開花結果了為什麼在這個時候你再多給我們一點點都不會為過何況你把我刪掉 刪得比去年還少那這就是重點了"},{"start":8411.735,"end":8440.156,"text":"那這些受影響的這些部分呢我們除了剛剛部長您說的可能會找企業來協助對我覺得這個時候我們就只好靠一些民間的力量譬如說這次大阪世博民間就發起一個是台灣的館就是說我覺得台灣的民間社會是最可愛的當我們不行的時候他們可能會站出來幫忙我剛剛前面已經解釋了我們出國的錢去找企業贊助"},{"start":8441.657,"end":8464.579,"text":"那個車 飛機票那一刻我一方面很心酸一方面我覺得還好我們有民間力量 也很感動對謝謝部長 本席這邊要強調就是說其實預算的合理刪減對部會是有鞭策的效果但是我們現在面對的是說不合理的刪減其實也是對我們文化人很不合理的這個批評跟待遇這個部分我也希望文化部你們要堅持"},{"start":8465.9,"end":8492.926,"text":"繼續努力 我們一起努力 一起打拼喔那接下來我還要關心的這個部分也是因為預算被刪喔我們本來預計在台南喔這個首府大學它退場之後我們要把它做為一個典藏中心但是現在這個一億元全數遭刪除那相信也是影響未來藏品這個空間的規劃跟安排因為我們這個典藏是本來是要來收藏本土的作品喔那現在這個預算被刪了之後我們後續呢我們要如何來持續這個相關的計畫"},{"start":8495.207,"end":8520.27,"text":"謝謝委員問這個問題其實長期以來文化部都有典藏的不夠的問題因為文化部有非常多博物館關市台南就有文學館歷史博物館那我們本來就不夠所以我們要蓋在首府大學是一個聯合典藏中心希望蓋一個很大的聯合典藏中心把原來不夠的地方可以補足那台南國家美術館成立關市"},{"start":8521.591,"end":8550.318,"text":"陳承波的後代就捐了兩千件東西給我們可是他捐不出來因為我們沒有地方可以放嘛所以你可以想像民間這麼多人願意捐這麼珍貴的東西給我們我們一個國家一個文化部竟然拿不出一個典藏中心去接納那我們編了一億這一億只夠我們剛開始規劃到啟動可能還要好幾年才做好你把我一億刪掉之後就表示我這件事情又要再等一年"},{"start":8551.138,"end":8579.008,"text":"那我覺得不是不能刪預算是要知道那個每一筆預算它的目的是什麼它的用處在哪裡它會影響很深遠你把我刪掉了看起來只是一個錢但它會影響到我怎麼去那你整個計畫都延宕啦你後面的規劃都沒有辦法延續下去一定是啊所以我們現在只能在現有的那個場館裡面或者我們去幫助民間他們去收藏我們編一點預算幫他去繼續保存就是只能這樣做"},{"start":8579.428,"end":8579.448,"text":"謝謝 謝謝委員"},{"start":8605,"end":8605.721,"text":"謝謝秀寶委員部長請回那我們現在休息十分鐘"},{"start":8774.002,"end":8774.485,"text":"文化部"},{"start":9282.756,"end":9285.399,"text":"好 我們現在繼續開會那我們現在接著請張雅玲委員謝謝昭緯 我們有請林委員部長好 有請李部長"},{"start":9303.79,"end":9311.717,"text":"詹委員你好部長好首先也是來針對有關於文化統戰這個議題想要來跟部長請教就是說總統在3月13號的國安會議召開之後他有宣布因應中國的統戰滲透我們進行17項的因應作為其中針對文化層面有要求強化"},{"start":9323.967,"end":9343.884,"text":"影譯人員在中國發展之言行應注意事項明確涉及危害國家尊嚴相關言行之查處範圍以避免中國施壓我影譯人員表態或做出危害國家尊嚴之言行我想要再更具體的確認一下這個什麼是注意事項可不可以請部長簡單說明一下"},{"start":9345.353,"end":9372.651,"text":"好所謂注意事項就是本身本來陸委會他就有一個網站只是一個比較柔性的勸導希望去中國中國輔導中國的藝人他要注意哪一些事項可是沒有針對哪一種要給予懲罰經過這一次我們發現我們得訂一些更具體的那個辦法所以我們文化部已經寫好一個比較具體的比如說提醒這個藝人到大陸去"},{"start":9373.351,"end":9402.293,"text":"以下幾件事情我們要比過去更注意這其實就像剛剛秀白委員講的希望可以把樣態更清晰的定義出來那到時候這相關的一些報告或是有一些會議的話有些資料的話也可以提供給我們辦公室我們想要了解一下那再來就是說這是我們的藝人到中國那我想要再確認一件事情去年中國的回春單這個樂壇他們來到台灣他們在自己的社群媒體上面發表了"},{"start":9403.795,"end":9427.976,"text":"從廣西到中國、台灣、明天台北見那這也是一種矮化台灣主權的一個言論嘛那針對像這樣子的一個議題呢我們過去呢陸委會雖然有針對於大陸地區電影創主創人員來台參與國產電影片製作審查或者是合拍電視電視戲劇的一個合作審查但是這都針對於演員"},{"start":9429.378,"end":9437.826,"text":"編劇或劇組人員的一些拍片規範可是對於歌手或樂團卻沒有相關的一些規定這個部分我們應該如何進行呢"},{"start":9439.373,"end":9465.079,"text":"像這個項目就是因為他北深用講這些語言我們雖然台灣有言論自由的保障但是我們會去跟經濟公司去溝通像這種他不斷的在講這些語言我想我們要去更進一步了解他是不是有背後的目的就像我前面講的他雖然言論自由可是他不可以用言論自由這個環境來刻意的用這個言論自由來打壓我們台灣的地位跟尊嚴"},{"start":9465.359,"end":9489.29,"text":"我想他們講這句話也非常明確了我想其實基本目的就是統戰這也是一種統戰的言論那我們是不是也可以跟陸委會來討論一些相關針對於歌手跟樂團的一些相關的審查原則我覺得有個審查原則出來大家更有方法可以去依循避免這樣子的情況來發生好嗎這部分是不是也可以一併來跟陸委會討論對不對是可以的嗎"},{"start":9492.632,"end":9503.906,"text":"這個沒有問題那我們大概多久可以有一些相關的討論的進度呢我們其實這個辦法已經對我們來講已經可是我覺得是中國或他們來台來台灣來台灣的喔不是我們去中國的喔大概什麼時候"},{"start":9510.643,"end":9537.794,"text":"我們時間可以暫停一下嗎 因為他們在討論我記得它原來就是有一條對於對大陸藝人來台灣的關於但是我們之前過去我們找到的都是那個拍片的為主耶那我們是補充一些包括剛才講到這種團體的演繹好啊 那這大概什麼時候可以補充完成呢這個滿快的馬上一個月以內還是一個禮拜馬上是多久就來台申請的部分我們一週之內說明"},{"start":9539.415,"end":9555.344,"text":"一週之內 一週之內 好喔 謝謝喔那再來也是一樣跟這個言論有一點相關的部長 因為我是一個非常熱愛追星的人我想請您看一下我現在在黃框裡面那四個字是什麼字好 我們給部長一點時間"},{"start":9570.126,"end":9588.618,"text":"台灣獨立這個是上個禮拜韓國有一個非常有名的女團Blackpink其中一個成員Jisoo她來到台灣做一個見面會那見面會當天主辦單位跟大家說你可以錄影你也可以壓上你自己的浮水印這是一個追星文化那你知道為什麼他們要壓這個台灣獨立嗎"},{"start":9592.11,"end":9618.73,"text":"可能不知道對不對部長平常沒有在追星好我來告訴你對我不知道好就是呢其實因為之前呢其實常常遇到中國有非常非常多的人會盜用台灣追星人的影片所以呢他們要放上這個台灣獨立就是要用他的魔法來制服他因為如果加上台灣獨立他們台灣的追星人認為啦如果加上台灣獨立這個影片就不會再被他們盜用變成自己的版權的樣子"},{"start":9620.691,"end":9645.913,"text":"可是遇到一個問題耶這個主辦公司呢他在下面在這個粉絲的IG下面留下這句話說請將在有藝人的畫面中把這四個字移除那我想問一下因為這個似乎好像是一種我們自己的一個言論審查思想審查啦"},{"start":9649.011,"end":9672.523,"text":"所以說而且這個狀況其實在去年泰白泰白就是一個也是泰國的那個團體CP來到台灣這樣子那台灣的主辦最新團應援團也有講說這裡面都不要講到任何跟台灣有影響有相關的事情所以我會認為這等於是我們自我限縮我們台灣人在台灣我發表任何言論都不行那您的看法是什麼"},{"start":9674.605,"end":9701.74,"text":"我覺得蠻荒謬的就是台灣本來就是一個主權獨立的國家而且是一個自由民主的制度我們在這邊講台灣獨立這樣的一個原理而且他自己台灣自己的影片上面喔就像我們全世界的一些很有名的藝人會到全世界演唱的時候他支持江獨 支持藏獨大家都會認為他很有勇氣在我們台灣自己本地不能講這個我真的不曉得為什麼"},{"start":9702.941,"end":9723.88,"text":"但是我希望部長可以來思考這個問題因為這個問題可能會影響到接下來因為還是這幾年其實有越來越多的韓國的明星也好來到台灣做一些表演但是如果我們自己台灣的公司都對我們自己的粉絲做這麼多的嚴格的思想審查我覺得這個可能也是未來有機會讓中國有一個漏洞可以轉所以這個部分是不是可以一併來考慮跟思考一下"},{"start":9726.318,"end":9750.437,"text":"那接下來因為延續的追星族的一個權益我想今天這個質詢完之後部長應該會認識非常多韓團這個是BTS 我不知道部長聽過BTS嗎BTS最近在J-Hope要來台灣開演唱會然後在3月的時候開放了三天購票可是一下就秒殺 那我覺得黃牛票議題非常嚴肅因為接下來GD也要來台灣"},{"start":9752.532,"end":9770.342,"text":"GD又是另外一個團可是我們看到在這些天團進場的時候我們在社群上面有這句話他們委託本次委託提供預購碼的買家全部成功進場百分之百出貨率這是不是一個黃牛的行為這個算不算黃牛還是沒關係"},{"start":9781.358,"end":9803.513,"text":"像這樣的東西在網路上我們真的不曉得要怎麼...可是它是提供預購碼買家喔它百分之百都出貨欸百分之百買到票這一個票是秒殺欸很多人搶不到可是它竟然可以說如果你還想要進場的話你都可以來注意我們的貼文喔這不是嗎這一定是啊因為你可以代購欸而且還保證你絕對入場欸這絕對是一個黃牛的行為啊"},{"start":9807.455,"end":9827.617,"text":"所以我覺得我們現在的一個對於黃警察來說他這樣子非常的挑釁因為他們根本不怕被抓為什麼我從去年開始就一直在關注這個議題就是說對於所有的追星族來說最希望的就是他能夠跟他的偶像見上一面所以我們必須確保這個機制讓每個人都能夠有公平購票的機會"},{"start":9829.719,"end":9847.956,"text":"可是我們的黃牛票檢舉的成效其實是非常低的部長可以看到加價轉售 售售檢舉8424件 成案率只有26.3%用不正方式的售售檢舉有521件 成案率只有2.3%所以總共我們收到了將近9000筆的一個檢舉資料 只有不到25%"},{"start":9850.698,"end":9872.915,"text":"就大概25%可以檢舉成案那最主要是我自己簡單來講我自己歸納我覺得是檢舉根本要不到社群後台的一個資料社群平台後台的資料而且呢也很難以提供就是這些不管是購票的人也好啦或者是這個平台方到底願意提供Log我覺得也是一個很大的問題好 那"},{"start":9876.707,"end":9880.215,"text":"去年呢其實我那時候有針對於說如果當民眾要檢舉的時候我們"},{"start":9883.644,"end":9910.813,"text":"這邊你可以看到綠色框框裡面要檢舉的時候其實民眾很難拿到那個LOG資料那當時齁當時文化部是給我回覆王次長當時是回覆說他們會跟平台方來索取只要我們有這個票券的號碼或流水記錄的話呢我們就可以跟他要就可以真正找到這個買票的人那當時我有說好那我還是希望大家可以跟民眾加強說明可是一年過後了這個"},{"start":9911.993,"end":9936.515,"text":"對於一個檢舉民眾來說我看完我還是要提供這個LOG資料啊我說看這是你們的這個網站檢舉網站檢舉的頁面上面還是沒有告訴他我們是可以來協助的只要提供部分的資訊就可以了您可以看一下這上面文字是這樣寫不管是檢舉要提供哪些資料都有寫說需要提供平台的名稱藝文表演"},{"start":9937.276,"end":9944.116,"text":"活動資訊跟操作歷程記錄所以我覺得這對民眾來說他並不知道他只要有流水號就可以檢舉了"},{"start":9946.021,"end":9966.92,"text":"可以說明一下嗎 可以回覆一下嗎這部分要如何讓民眾可以知道這個部分真的只有嘉祥宣導關於黃流從去年到今年我們已經做了很多的方式比如說我們跟地方的一些場館他們本身能夠掌管到那個演唱會申請的這個單位尤其是六都跟他們一起來"},{"start":9968.541,"end":9985.427,"text":"市長其實我想兩件事情啦我想要要求這個檢舉的平台上面是不是可以更清楚讓民眾知道他只要提供流水號他就可以去檢舉他不一定要提供到這麼完整的LOG資料因為這是去年你們告訴我的或是說你們是不是一定要多個我請市長回答好嗎"},{"start":9987.591,"end":10008.813,"text":"委員好那委員這個部分我們會在頁面上因為我們最近也正在改版會一些說明的部分會再講清楚那其實基本上在一般的加價轉售的檢舉案上確實我們會需要的會是目前上面列到的票券的流水號碼Log其實基本上一般民眾確實是不會有他是所謂的不正確沒錯是所以我就說我懂所以就是說"},{"start":10010.094,"end":10032.786,"text":"所以你就應該要做一些刪除嘛因為你這樣加上去就變成是他我看到如果是我是一個民眾我看到的時候我就會想說那我這樣我沒有辦法檢舉所以這才會造成我們前面的檢舉成案率這麼的低啊第二個問題我覺得還有我們真的可以我們今天真的有辦法平台會給你這個log的記錄嗎他們真的願意嗎因為對他們來說商業模式我賣掉就賣掉啦我更不在乎這件事情他們真的願意給你們嗎"},{"start":10037.322,"end":10055.711,"text":"這邊跟委員報告其實目前如果確實檢舉案件資料明確的時候警方或者是地方政府在跟售票平台調的時候像拓園這些他們其實會稍微配合稍微配合對對對基本上我們還是會有售票平台其實會配合提供這些Log因為Log聽起來好像有些是不會配合的嘛"},{"start":10056.551,"end":10083.31,"text":"我們其實有一直在跟他們合作好沒關係這個問題因為我時間到了我們約個時間來仔細的討論這個部分好嗎好因為我覺得如果我們今天做了一個這樣子的辦法雖然我們可以罰他我們有一些好像高額的金額可以去嚇阻他可是事實上我們真的就從這個陳安律來看我們好像就是抓不太到啦我們應該要怎麼樣子來精進讓我們真正來照顧到我們每一個追星人可以跟他的偶像用公平跟正當的方式來相見好嗎謝謝謝謝委員"},{"start":10086.889,"end":10093.131,"text":"好 謝謝 謝謝張雅玲委員部長請回接下來請郭鈺晴委員謝謝主席 有請部長好 有請李部長郭委員好"},{"start":10107.813,"end":10132.97,"text":"部長辛苦了我想這個文化是最重要的國家軟實力我們以英國為例就是他們從兒童節目一直到影音的作品或者是從體育賽事一直到所謂的流行音樂甚至到美術或者是藝術甚至歷史的一些展館在在的都看到英國他們發展最重要的一個軟實力其實就是國力的象徵就是我們的文化"},{"start":10133.55,"end":10154.17,"text":"但是很遺憾我們看到了我們的文化部的預算照正常來講其實文化部的預算是佔中央的總預算比例通常都不到1%其實對我們來講已經不是那麼的多了我們剛剛一直聽到文化部我們希望說文化能夠向下扎根能夠往外擴展"},{"start":10155.111,"end":10172.166,"text":"然後甚至國際的一些交流但是呢我相信大家都已經經歷過就是在預算會期的時候我們文化部的預算呢被大幅的煽動那我舉個例子來講喔比方說煽動的有這個同山的部分是有水電費、違辦費、特別費等等"},{"start":10174.768,"end":10193.66,"text":"那另外呢在媒體宣傳5943萬是全數被刪除所以剛剛其實關於亞林委員在提到說比方說黃牛我們要如何去宣導要加強宣導但這個部分我們的預算是整體被刪除喔那更不用講"},{"start":10194.42,"end":10220.197,"text":"可能有一些預算的煽動也會影響到地方文化的發展藝文產業的發展甚至文化資產的保存還有我剛剛所提的我們要往外擴展我有聽到部長有說今年其實我們要到大阪去拓展台灣的一個文化像這個部分在國際交流的部分也因為預算的煽動也可能會受到一些影響對嗎是"},{"start":10224.025,"end":10233.06,"text":"那部長有什麼樣的因應的方法嗎其實我們就會想說如果沒選費如果把我們全部刪除的話我們就想"},{"start":10234.503,"end":10257.129,"text":"對我來講我就會反而去找多一個可以做網路梗圖的人想辦法去克服但是對我們同仁來講真的蠻辛苦尤其是他那個沒宣費不能再用的時候我們活動非常多剛才提到水電其實很多單位如果不解凍的話到六七月之後就真的沒水沒電了"},{"start":10258.229,"end":10260.911,"text":"甚至像今年其實大家眾所矚目在大阪現在已經開始的這個萬國博覽會它的推廣或者是說我們剛剛講到這個文化幣等等或者是閱讀推廣等等所有的一個活動也可能會被迫中斷或者是有重大的影響"},{"start":10275.8,"end":10292.735,"text":"我想這個一直過去到現在我們看到國民黨的委員把影視文化業者當成是要飯的那已經把所有的台灣影視文化人都激怒了那不是只有影視文化的部分甚至民間藝術團體也紛紛針對文化的預算被刪減"},{"start":10298.22,"end":10321.69,"text":"都已經站出來包含動漫工會包含視覺藝術界還有出版業者還有書店等等我想呢不曉得他們有沒有聽到這樣的聲音喔那我想針對藝文產業其實它是一個高度依賴中央的政府補助喔那也因為我們的預算被煽動也有可能會沒辦法"},{"start":10323.531,"end":10345.826,"text":"好好的來讓藝文工作者他們的生計有所維持但是我今天剛剛有突然聽到了一絲的希望看到了一絲的曙光因為我們知道現在所有立法院的遊戲規則已經開始有點被更改了我不知道原來解凍可以這麼的快速也許從現在我們可以快速通關我們來聽一下好不好大文化部書面報告送進來這些錢"},{"start":10353.453,"end":10354.524,"text":"立刻就可以使用"},{"start":10357.475,"end":10377.02,"text":"我好開心耶 是真的嗎因為他是我們教育文化的另外一位召委那我想如果有他這句話那我們可以往這個方向前進那我相信文化部解凍這個預算上的解凍或者是我們在才化法當中的這些可能會被影響的一些地方文化的產業可能就有那麼一絲被救贖的曙光"},{"start":10384.246,"end":10400.977,"text":"好 接下來我想要問一下就是其實剛剛也有很多我們的委員也在提到這個陸配的雅雅的案子其實是個前天大家軒然大波但是在更之前呢其實有台灣的演藝人員他在自己的這個平台上面"},{"start":10401.817,"end":10405.278,"text":"發表了矮化台灣主權相關的關於台灣省中國台灣省這樣子的一個不當的言論成為威權統治的一個宣傳的工具我想身為藝人 身為公眾人物其實我們都有一些道德的責任在我們也會有一些所謂的社會的影響力"},{"start":10424.123,"end":10431.305,"text":"當他們利用自己的平台附中去做演藝表演的同時我們這個時候文化部應該要怎麼樣的嚴加的管理或者是輔導那麼當然我們有一個台灣藝人附中發展注意事項那目前這個執行的方法我們可能還不是非常的清楚到底應該要如何的來執行那對於台灣藝人附中去表演"},{"start":10450.211,"end":10466.449,"text":"但如何不會踩到所謂的政治的紅線這個部分是不是我想要再聽一下部長您怎麼說好其實我們原來的一些規定都不會針對某一個人去做出任何處分"},{"start":10467.31,"end":10481.807,"text":"但是我現在發現這個東西如果是一個文化滲透或者它是一個有計畫的在做的話作為文化部我們就要進一步去做出一些更具體的一些規範譬如說你去了中國大陸"},{"start":10483.068,"end":10503.005,"text":"你的商业行为背后有没有条件是要做一些污蔑台湾的言论才会产生这个商业行为或者是你背后有交易我们要对这个事情要做行政了解包括经纪公司我们要了解如果一旦知道他有这些行为或者他根本就有中国的"},{"start":10503.986,"end":10527.075,"text":"那個戶籍的話我們可以針對我們台灣我們至少可以保護我們台灣的一些譬如說他來申請輔導或者我們可以前面先知道他有沒有做這些事情或者事後知道我可以追回我的輔導金追回我的補助就我們要做一些比較更具體的一些行為但是這一切的一切都不表示我們不尊重這個言論自由"},{"start":10528.996,"end":10551.212,"text":"好 不論如何我們希望這個管理辦法或者是我們再更具體的一些這個管理的一個規範要出來啦那我們才能夠去執行這就有點像是兩岸人民關係條例當中我們一直強調就是公職人員其實你要附中你要報告是一樣的意思身為藝人一樣也有這樣子的一個重要的影響力我們不要淪為被統戰的一個工具"},{"start":10552.232,"end":10577.46,"text":"好 那因為今天時間有限接著下一題我想要問一下下的就是關於我們的台灣Plus我想台灣Plus經過了半年的這樣子的一個時間從才半年就已經有五次非常重大的一個疏失不管是對於文化的敏感度不足或者是對於所謂的涉及語言上的標示的錯誤或者是政治的立場的偏頗"},{"start":10578.84,"end":10603.784,"text":"台灣Plus的宗旨應該是要讓全世界看到台灣但是問題是在專業度不夠嚴謹的一個狀況之下其實他們已經出現了好幾次的缺失台灣Plus的問題什麼時候可以真正的由內部的控管來管理這些所謂他們在做新聞報導的時候的橫平性這個也是我"},{"start":10604.464,"end":10633.17,"text":"辦公室一直不斷的在追的這一個題目這個部分部長怎麼看其實台灣Plus它的從產生到現在的確在組織上的管理跟那個結構其實是蠻有問題的所以最近台灣Plus本身公共電視已經成立一個調查一個很中立的調查團針對整個過去到現在它的組織跟人力因為我了解幕前幕後"},{"start":10633.55,"end":10647.589,"text":"尤其是在幕後的後製其實台灣Plus要做橫頻的報導是非常非常的快速是可以投入在幕後也就是說我的片子就算已經上架出去但是我事後可以來做"},{"start":10648.833,"end":10670.501,"text":"嚴重嚴格的一個補救的一個方式這個是可以快速再上架再讓他重新上架但目前為止其實光是這幾次的整個所有的爭議當中尤其是在三月份這兩次這樣子的一個個案我到目前為止還沒有看到補救的方法在哪裡是不是可以請Talant Plus來跟我說一下"},{"start":10673.577,"end":10700.197,"text":"因為我們最近已經接受這個調查的建議以後我們開始做比較強化的改變最主要原因是因為本國籍同仁在編輯的過程當中要讓他更介入更投入在整個編裁流程的管控那過往我們當然是尊重外籍同仁對英語報導內容製作上的一些專業跟經驗尊重不代表沒有管制喔是 但我想本國籍同仁的管制還有新聞部主管的這個審核機制"},{"start":10701.738,"end":10718.52,"text":"已經建立更好的方法我們在這個月已經起到我想橫頻的去報導不要有偏頗的政治的立場去報導這些所謂的爭議的報導的影片的同時其實這個部分內部你們真的要嚴加的好好的來做管理好嗎好"},{"start":10720.885,"end":10731.714,"text":"好 以上 謝謝部長 謝謝主席好 謝謝委員好 謝謝 謝謝郭玉琴委員 部長請回我們接下來請吳佩奕委員好 謝謝主席 我請文化部李遠部長好 有請李部長"},{"start":10747.93,"end":10752.092,"text":"好部長好 部長上一次在這裡質詢的時候我們很高興的在討論文化部終於今年度編出了史上最高的文化預算那因為這是賴清德總統的政見也是我競選立委的政見所以當時我們是非常的肯定但是我想今天經過"},{"start":10770.376,"end":10788.709,"text":"去年底在野黨對於我們國家總體預算的刪除刪減我們今天在這裡與其說是聽文化部的業務報告更不如說是在聽我們文化部經過在野黨刪除預算之後的宅損報告評估那我們"},{"start":10789.87,"end":10801.037,"text":"原本今年度加上前瞻首次突破了文化預算300億這感謝文化部所有同仁的努力但是經過了刪減之後目前文化部預算刪減11億 凍結34億"},{"start":10805.279,"end":10833.996,"text":"部長在爭取預算的過程當中曾經一度哽咽當時你對媒體說你彷彿看到台灣文化人的努力像是一顆珍貴的蛋在你的眼前被捏碎了那其實部長您也不是第一次擔任政府機關的文化首長過去你擔任過在柯文哲台北市長任內您擔任過文記會的董事兩次那過去你在台北市議會您的預算有沒有遇過這麼大幅度的刪除"},{"start":10838.41,"end":10860.14,"text":"你剛剛講到我過去在公務機關我沒有做過這是我第一次在公務機關工作文進會的董事就是以過去你在市議會的經驗你們在報告預算的時候有沒有被刪除過這麼大幅度的預算我沒有過任何預算經驗我過去的所有工作都是在電視台那我在文進會是辦一個學校也沒有預算"},{"start":10860.8,"end":10876.249,"text":"所以第一次 我第一次學習你第一次遇到 對那過去我在台北市議會我們也審過文化局包括文基會的預算即便當時我的角色我是在野黨的民意代表那我們也不曾對執政黨的文化預算進行過這麼大幅度的刪除"},{"start":10881.073,"end":10889.632,"text":"刪減因為我們知道這個文化預算在使用的或者是它在造福的是文化工作者而文化工作者的成品他們的創作品"},{"start":10891.849,"end":10918.342,"text":"所造福的是我們全體國人甚至是世界的人類這是人類共同的藝術成就大家共享的文化資源所以我們都向來是非常尊重也希望政府可以努力的來扶持那在這次的刪除預算當中我看到幾個我覺得比較不合理的地方第一個有一些項目它是遭到全數刪除也就是把你整個業務停擺"},{"start":10920.183,"end":10938.446,"text":"不是只是給你一點建議清理檢討是把你全數刪除例如我們聯合典藏中心刪除的金額年度高達是一億元那這個典藏中心原先要做庫房跟修復空間提供包括史博館台史博文學館國影中心跟美術基金會來使用"},{"start":10939.927,"end":10959.534,"text":"那國營中心我非常重視因為去年度我們還去考察過當時國營中心就有提出來我們知道說有非常多我們的這一些過去的電影膠片海報新聞片數位修復片等等重要的影音資料庫我們都還有很多的藏品等待修復那當然是需要空間那現在"},{"start":10961.815,"end":10986.194,"text":"前兩天我們也看到陳承波的後代他說捐出了兩千多件的作品我們非常感謝那他是很信任他說多年來他們現在終於是等於要交手給政府了由政府來協助他們做後續的工作那典藏都是在修復裡面非常重要的一個條件那我們現在聯合典藏中心今年度的預算全數刪除會對我們造成什麼影響"},{"start":10989.997,"end":11016.104,"text":"其實講到這裡我覺得台灣的文化快速的發展的情況下我們本身政府的腳步有點跟不上譬如說他一捐就捐兩千件東西我們典藏根本來不及跟所以其實我心裡很焦急是我們做的每一個編列的預算都是在追趕前面不夠的狀態那民間這麼熱心的捐這麼多東西我們作為一個政府機構"},{"start":11017.364,"end":11043.032,"text":"你輕易的把它刪掉你一點都不知道這個錢是要幹什麼的這才是真的重點就是這個錢一點都不多我們已經有點來不及了所以當在野黨刪的時候我最痛心的是你知不知道這個錢要幹什麼我們台灣的文化過去都已經忽略很久了過去被忽略這麼久現在民間這麼多人想幫忙政府把他家裡的最珍貴的話"},{"start":11044.272,"end":11065.161,"text":"捐出來兩千多件他每一件都可以賣很多錢的你完全忽略了民間這些藝術家藝術家的後代對台灣文化多麼珍惜那我們政府騙個一億只為了一個典藏中心的開始你全部刪掉你再刪那一刻我不小心你想什麼"},{"start":11066.365,"end":11091.742,"text":"就是有一群人這麼努力的想要建立這個文化台灣的主體文化有一些人看都不看一眼其實我最難過的不是錢的問題是態度的問題這部分也希望文化部可以再多加強跟各政黨委員的溝通因為陳如剛部長所說其實去年度的預算在我們文化委員會審查的時候原先只刪了兩千萬"},{"start":11092.623,"end":11119.542,"text":"那到了第二輪由政黨之名提出的時候起初是要刪除八十億那是因為文化人站出來國人表達抗議所以最後他們才撤案最後還好災情控制到只刪了十一億但是我要講的是所以教育委員會當時國民黨的委員在野黨的委員也不是支持要刪八十億當時我們公司是刪兩千萬經過文化部的說明但是到二輪到政黨提案之後突然金額變那麼大"},{"start":11121.26,"end":11140.553,"text":"那我很遺憾當時教文委員會在野黨委員沒有站出來捍衛他們在委員會所做下的決定所以不得不說他們也是目前我們看到災情的共犯但是我們可以再努力的去溝通因為我想只要是在這個委員會裡面大家基於專業來審查都是支持文化預算的例如"},{"start":11141.293,"end":11145.558,"text":"還包含了我們這一次的這個表演藝術最後也被刪了兩千萬數字金額可能有人說乍看不大但我認為影響很大因為它這是延續性計畫這不是新增的本來每一年我們就是在補助我們台灣這些優秀的團體例如我們品牌團隊這個等於是台灣的旗艦藝文團體"},{"start":11160.515,"end":11164.117,"text":"我們希望他們在國際上可以發光發亮原先我們是希望今年要可以補助更多團隊所以把預算提高沒有想到又被刪減所以恐怕過去補助了雲門 補助明華園補助朱忠敬 打擊樂團 優人神鼓等等現在恐怕沒有辦法如我們原先希望的去扶植更多的藝文團體那另外我看到視覺藝術的黑潮"},{"start":11183.567,"end":11209.604,"text":"也被刪了兩千萬這個原先是補助我們台灣的藝術家例如賴淳淳藝術文教基金會本來今年去大阪市博要策展然後例如我們也補助台灣跟澳洲的女性藝術交流計畫甚至有好地下藝術團就是花蓮在地的當代攝影家預計要去歐洲做交流這些都是我們非常支持的原先我們都希望可以補助更多的團體但是因為預算遭到了刪減恐怕沒有辦法再增加那另外"},{"start":11213.827,"end":11240.248,"text":"除了三減以外才化法我認為我也是相當的遊行我們剛講到的要補助藝文團體原先我們有一個計畫是要補助地方的這個優良的傑出藝文團體那跟地方政府來分別分攤補助金額嘛那目前這樣看來我們這個會不會受到影響在未來才化法我們文化部預算可能會減少百分之三十的情況之下"},{"start":11241.189,"end":11262.468,"text":"其實我們預算一直往下排擠地方團隊是第一個受害者地方團隊的錢每個團隊的補助都很少我們經過這樣排擠之後我們現在根本不能考慮地方團隊了那財務法法一下去我們不但不能補助地方團隊我們所有的文資所有的文化平權原來我們可以"},{"start":11263.109,"end":11279.337,"text":"按照資源的多少去支援不同的縣市我在這裡一再強調我們完全不會考慮政治 政黨對於文化的分配我們正要去金門正要去表演我們不會去因為他的政治而"},{"start":11280.057,"end":11295.437,"text":"而刪減任何的補助所以這才是我最動心的就是你現在一刪之後我現在覺得我文化部本來可以稍微完成文化平權或者文化資產的經過一個災難我們立刻去補助它這些錢都是非常急迫的"},{"start":11296.175,"end":11316.662,"text":"好 部長 最後我要講剛剛講到財化法可能對文資的保存會造成衝擊這一點我真的相當憂心因為目前我們文化部我們跟行政院爭取嘛六年一共160億的預算來補助地方的文資保存一年大概二十幾億那經過財化法劃分這樣把錢撥下去之後財化法最大問題是沒有討論市權"},{"start":11318.943,"end":11342.066,"text":"所以你這個錢撥給地方政府第一個他會不會撥到文化局我們都不確定那文化局會不會再去撥到要指定是就做文化資產的修復可能都不一定像文化部你們這個錢如果被強迫30%就是你文資修復的部分如果未來必須要撥給地方政府你們可不可以要求地方政府這個預算給你你就是必須要補助文資修復你們可不可以這樣要求"},{"start":11342.846,"end":11362.803,"text":"當然不行啊 我們沒有權利啊我們沒有辦法這樣要求試選這就是我最擔心的因為我在我的選區台北市中正萬華區我非常多的文資像我們萬華西門的將軍廟也是文化部來幫我們補助文資修復如果未來才化法錢撥給地方政府本來應該要去補助文資修復的因為沒有討論試權 只討論錢"},{"start":11365.663,"end":11370.156,"text":"那未來我們地方的這些文資修復如果預算不足地方政府又沒有編列的時候我們該何去何從呢"},{"start":11373.55,"end":11380.635,"text":"所以部長剛雖然您說你們沒有這樣的權利但我還是要拜託你們因為你們畢竟是全國文化最高的主管機關要拜託你們跟地方政府來好好討論一旦錢撥下去了文資修復文化部原先每年20億的預算要拜託地方政府千萬還是要去執行到來保存我們台灣的文化資產因為是我們全體國人所珍貴共同的文物好不好"},{"start":11404.411,"end":11419.681,"text":"好因為我們最近要推出一個全台灣一個100大文化基地的目的就是想強化中央跟地方上共同去推一些文化基地的是這個目的我還希望去找到別的部會"},{"start":11421.002,"end":11443.734,"text":"幫我們一起來支援 藝術在地方其實我們不要分中央跟地方中央本身的所有錢都用在地方上這點是不用分的那我覺得大家一直沒有搞懂好像文化部的錢是用在中央中央是不存在的他的錢都是用在每一個縣市每一個點 每一個宮廟每一個古蹟這樣子好 謝謝 謝謝主席"},{"start":11450.25,"end":11471.508,"text":"好 謝謝 謝謝吳佩奕委員 部長請回我們接下來請羅廷偉委員好 謝謝召委 有請部長好 有請部長"},{"start":11476.584,"end":11495.912,"text":"柏惟你好部長好部長想跟你探討一下這個文化傳承的一個布袋戲想跟你請問一下這幾個人物那我們一起來瞭解一下第一個部長您知道這是誰嗎這實驗文啊欸 亞修車蛤"},{"start":11497.669,"end":11526.135,"text":"葉小叉 亞修車我是故意這樣講 假使因為我那裡笑的沒有沒有因為我們年齡差太多啦沒有沒有沒有我們沒有不會去說探討啦不會去做這樣子的一個我們沒有任何去調侃的意思啦一起探討 一起加油第二個第二個我剛剛聽台底下的人好像蠻多共鳴是你們都知道嗎那第二個部長"},{"start":11529.924,"end":11538.293,"text":"不是不是不是硬錫鈴硬錫鈴我們碧琪琳喔硬獅人 第三個來來來盡量回答看看 沒關係沒關係太陽王喔"},{"start":11554.143,"end":11567.451,"text":"有太陽王這個角色嗎我先跟你講啦這個拿來考我我也不知道我們不要說自己也要坦承啦但是這個是野兔林第四個下面有人念出來喔"},{"start":11583.459,"end":11600.335,"text":"報告部長 灰熊鹿 非常女第五個 這個已經是非常非常知名的了我本來知道 我看到你我很緊張又忘記了"},{"start":11601.587,"end":11629.323,"text":"你不覺得今天我氣氛盡可能的就是大家很平和嗎我好緊張耶授還金授還金 授還金好來 第六個 第六個其實真的蠻簡單的常見人啊 最怕人再來 第七個你講過的還要冷氣 還要冷氣啦那第八個他算是也蠻常出現的"},{"start":11630.99,"end":11657.024,"text":"三個字阿閃有人打帕斯嗎可以打帕斯沒關係阿閃閃啦不是阿閃閃金雞仙那部長這樣子喔其實八個布袋戲的人物啊無形的文化資產那當然我坦白講連我要回答的時候有時候都非常的吃緊包括台底下大家一起聽到那我要講的是說今天答對"},{"start":11658.244,"end":11683.142,"text":"沒有得分 答錯也不應該有處罰但是我們要講的是背後的一個含義我們希望在面臨現階段布袋戲的一個成長一直在緊縮30歲以下的年輕人搞不好還沒看過布袋戲但是我覺得布袋戲在台灣來說是一個非常重要的在整個粉絲跟客群一直在減少藝術傳承也都出現了斷層"},{"start":11684.463,"end":11709.454,"text":"那以及傳統記憶面臨消失的風險我們應該來共同的來努力但是我們要看到在台灣布袋戲竟然竟然竟然在日本是成長的台灣與日本在合作的這個東離劍遊記吸引了大批日本人關注布袋戲部長日本反而比台灣更關注布袋戲"},{"start":11710.194,"end":11715.973,"text":"那台灣作為這個布袋戲最重要的一個文化標誌我們該怎麼辦您覺得呢"},{"start":11716.96,"end":11742.01,"text":"我覺得我們回到本土文化裡面像歌仔戲跟布袋戲是絕對絕對第一重要所以我們在文化部其實我們有支持在雲林蓋了一個布袋部的傳習中心然後我們自己很多計畫是包括補助很多團體包括兒童團體裡面的繼續延續布袋戲的表演譬如說雲林有個"},{"start":11743.05,"end":11767.106,"text":"藝文教育扎根計畫我們就大概補助了3840萬所以像這個東西我以為你講的非常重要因為我剛才跟你講這些人的名字的時候其實我童年我在萬華長大我每天上學就看到布偶的製作布偶怎麼製作怎麼畫臉怎麼畫臉怎麼做衣服他絕對是一個我們全力要推廣的"},{"start":11767.406,"end":11795.257,"text":"也是你成長過程的一個經歷對不對所以可以認同一起來幫布袋戲再繼續的扎根推廣那當然我沒有說你沒有補助我們都知道文化部在這個部分的不管是無形的文化資產以及我們傳統的記憶是有在努力的可是我要講的是說部長在你成長的時代一群學生興起創作民歌改變了國語這一個樂壇的一個制式化"},{"start":11796.197,"end":11822.445,"text":"現在民歌傳唱50年了你自己有沒有自己很熟悉的民歌我寫過民歌我寫的最有名的一個民歌叫做跨父追日是李建復唱的跨父追日然後我寫過很多民歌跟陳陽合作所以我是一個我沒聽過因為我可能對我來說可能是橄欖樹啊所以我們因為年齡差太多所以你剛剛問我對民歌熟不熟其實我就是民歌創作者"},{"start":11823.065,"end":11847.187,"text":"謝謝你,好險你沒有考我民歌,不然我應該會像你那樣打不開出來但是我要講的是說民歌傳上五十年,政府在補助流行音樂的時候或許也都一直在努力的在民歌的推廣,那也都有補助民歌但是聽眾如果老了,我們是不是就應該要放棄,這個其實讓民眾去有一個很大的一個反思那文化部沒有放棄"},{"start":11848.548,"end":11864.999,"text":"應該一起繼續努力但是我們要講的是不只是給予補助如何在教育的部分不要失去這個寶貴的偶戲一個文化布袋戲的一個扎根教育以及從國小 國中 高中要怎麼來做不只是文化的保存剛剛你說有這個管項"},{"start":11866.64,"end":11879.504,"text":"那我們在這個文化的教育要怎麼樣來加強我想強調的是教育體系對布袋戲的一個傳承重要性而不是把布袋戲當作是短期的或者是活動式的或者是單純觀賞的我覺得這個都不夠長久如何創造一個在現在21世紀新的文化"},{"start":11885.245,"end":11909.895,"text":"但是是傳統的技藝我覺得在這一次日本跟台灣合作的東離建郵寄它去達到了這樣的效果所以讓日本的這個年輕人開始重視那我們是不是一起能夠來開始規劃來這個部分文化部加一點力呢我非常贊成因為我們總是要選擇幾個屬於我們台灣自己特有的文化來其實某部分來說我覺得你也算是教育者"},{"start":11911.622,"end":11940.089,"text":"我師範大學畢業我們曾經在坐這個指風車保麗回家這個故事也是你寫的啊我寫過蠻多童話故事這部也是在教育我們的孩子對那如何將這個傳統記憶現在我要提到的能夠也變成一個教育變成是一個文化的教育這部分我希望教育部不只是砸錢那能不能在體制上或者是在具體的政策上讓傳統記憶能夠被看到這個我們一起加油"},{"start":11941.216,"end":11966.769,"text":"可以嗎可以啊好另外我要跟部長再探討的是這個央廣涉嫌這個詐領我想在前立委這個前因後果其實您大概都知道了前立委李德維曾質詢這個央廣詐領的一個爭議那時任的文化部長李永德呢也表示不滿意央廣現在的行政調查因此外聘會計事務所做查核並承諾"},{"start":11967.95,"end":11987.413,"text":"最終交給這個報告給立法院然而現在這些報告被列為了機密文件最終會送到立法院我想 部長我想請問你這個文化部對於央廣調查的報告列為機密的決策是否知情文化部身為督導的單位有沒有去了解所有的狀況"},{"start":11992.318,"end":12019.404,"text":"因為這件事情真的隔滿久了我知道之後我是開始了解整個過程那在文化部的立場是很快的就要求第三方去調查調查出來發現有問題之後直接送檢調所以這個東西還在檢調單位在查然後當時的文化部2021年開始有要求央管改進內通制度還有會計查核制度有建立一個比較完善的透明的檢查方法"},{"start":12020.524,"end":12038.432,"text":"2021到現在我想改善蠻多的改善蠻多的那這一份報告我剛剛說的齁您作為文化部長督導單位齁你看起來有去了解了但是我們都知道這個案件被列為機密案件這個合理嗎你是否會督促央廣去解除這個機密的等級並依法"},{"start":12038.712,"end":12055.333,"text":"提供報告送交立法院供國人供所有立法委員來了解這份報告的調查是國家補助資金的流向我先再講這個是內部有無福報跟貪污的情勢並不是國防外交國安事項"},{"start":12056.474,"end":12083.845,"text":"如果今天是國防外交國安事項我可以尊重我覺得你去使用機密資料處理辦法來規避現階段根本不屬於國安事項的話我覺得部長您的態度是要不要公布他已經公布了就是有關您剛才講的比較那個國安的東西我想他已經解除了他已經正式對外全部公布全部嗎前幾天的新聞前幾天的新聞還有報出來喔"},{"start":12085.961,"end":12108.293,"text":"這個我是不是請董事長跟你解釋因為我們董事長的現場好跟委員報告這個資料呢調查報告在去各自去識別化之後向所有關心的委員都公布了那前幾天新聞你有看到嗎看到了那您覺得呢我們覺得非常的遺憾針對過去曾經有"},{"start":12111.323,"end":12139.682,"text":"不妥的情況我們 呃 實在是 你大聲一點好嗎 對不起好的 我們 我個人對過去曾經有過的不妥的行為非常的遺憾但是也必須向委員報告在這幾年當中已經完全改善而且現在文化部針對這個案子還在管控當中我們是每年用放大鏡在做檢視是不是改善那目前為止沒有新的情況"},{"start":12140.382,"end":12161.632,"text":"所以我相信英廣現在是一個很認真負責的在對待這件事情董事長我無意刁難喔但是這些資料都是人民的辛苦納稅錢那有涉嫌這樣子的一個狀況國人都很關心我們都說錢很重要剛剛每個委員都在關注不管所提到的相關預算問題我想預算不外乎要監督"},{"start":12162.412,"end":12182.301,"text":"那現在有這樣子的涉嫌有可能炸零甚至福報的一個狀況你們內部也有調查過的確是有這樣子的遺憾所以你說很遺憾嘛對不對所以在面臨這樣子的高度檢視跟監督的時候是有其必要性的對吧是好謝謝那我想所有的資料應該都要坦誠報告啦那最後我想請問一下這個部長"},{"start":12183.834,"end":12208.473,"text":"部長對於文化部我們上次在審預算的時候這個國漫館還記得嗎國漫館我們在審理這樣子的總共五千萬的一個預算的時候最後凍結是五百萬那當時我們所提到不外乎幾個事項我所關注的第一國漫館到底現在所面臨到的就是無障礙措施以及跟台灣漫畫家的合作以及文創"},{"start":12209.614,"end":12236.668,"text":"能夠進駐更多的一些廠商甚至是比照更多年輕時下大家對於國漫或者是日本韓國的漫畫相關的銷售模式我說的是銷售模式那還有最重要的是休憩空間的改善當時也獲得許多不是我們同黨同志也都一起來戰俠因為大家覺得所謂的無障礙非常重要"},{"start":12237.228,"end":12249.776,"text":"那現在已經有凍結預算了那目前國慢館有沒有準備要來送審凍結解凍那目前無障礙的改善以及我們所當時建議的進度如何"},{"start":12250.919,"end":12274.391,"text":"我最近去看的感覺是它完全已經改善這個無障礙然後最近我覺得國漫館做的活動跟過去比起來是非常多包括日本的藝人古路歸世他帶著幾個藝人還來參觀國漫館想知道台灣的國家怎麼去建立一個漫畫中心我們當初很快的蓋好這個之後"},{"start":12275.311,"end":12301.875,"text":"內部的調整您剛剛講的所有的問題都是對的就是我們要怎麼樣去增加展覽空間我們怎麼去保存文物我們怎麼去推廣我們的漫畫這個我們一直在加緊腳步在做上次還有講休憩包括很多的一些親子家庭來到休憩空間的不足還有我們說到的是有所謂的扭蛋的方式去呈現的銷售模式或者是文創的入住其實在當下我們都有提到"},{"start":12302.415,"end":12317.523,"text":"那我們希望的是都希望國慢能夠更好以及國慢館的一個設施運作的時候能夠能有所提升那我要講的是說如果剛剛你所說的你們都準備好了也都有改善了我覺得這個部分的解凍案部長"},{"start":12318.183,"end":12333.789,"text":"您有預計什麼時候可以面臨這樣子的一個解凍案可以趕快送神嗎當然如果你有意願你也準備好了我們自己也有趙偉啊我們也可以跟趙偉講期望他排案啊來幫忙協助啊那這個部分你已經準備好了嗎我問問看你準備了嗎可以啊"},{"start":12336.315,"end":12356.474,"text":"其實剛才回到解凍案的問題我們個別個別都在朝著要解凍的那個東西在寫那我剛才有解釋過解凍的理由還有我們要寫的過程為什麼我們有點猶豫因為我們前面在審預算的過程中我的經驗很怕再被羞辱一次"},{"start":12358.595,"end":12384.096,"text":"我想用羞辱這個言詞非常的嚴厲但沒關係我們都是希望這個國家好我們都希望國慢管能夠更好相信你自己也相信我們在對於這個監督的過程當中都是希望朝向更好的一個方向我想在基本上我剛剛所講的就是很簡單最後趙偉要站起來了對於無障礙空間的一個改善對於休憩空間的一個改善對於台灣的漫畫家"},{"start":12386.218,"end":12410.012,"text":"的合作能夠有更多元甚至是二手漫畫的交流以及銷售方式的文創能夠更加的入住這個部分是當然見仁見智但是如果有朝向這個方向我們都希望能夠朝這個方向來努力的時候就是樂觀其成我們會來協助但是我覺得不需要去擔憂嘛那這個部分一起來努力可以嗎"},{"start":12410.732,"end":12431.039,"text":"我覺得羅委員對我們的漫畫博物館這麼關心我非常高興因為我自己對於漫畫也充滿了覺得我們在最近的這幾年看到我們的台漫起來我心裡也非常急切我希望羅委員協助我們爭取預算還有一切一切的我們一起來做好嗎"},{"start":12431.519,"end":12446.907,"text":"最後十秒 我們一定會協助 只要您的政策方向是對的我想這個過程中很激烈 有火花但是結果是希望朝向正面的我們都是為這個國家努力 為文化努力 為國慢管努力一起加油 謝謝好 謝謝好 謝謝羅廷偉委員 部長請回好 我們接下來請范雲委員"},{"start":12459.981,"end":12460.361,"text":"范委員你好"},{"start":12483.922,"end":12487.425,"text":"部長您好我想您到現在應該知道就是林宅血案的遺址他們的申請台北市的依照文資法的史跡被駁回那我有開記者會因為就是我認為他們的理由跟審查的意見前後矛盾一方面說這個事情就是調查好像沒有明確二方面又"},{"start":12509.065,"end":12530.335,"text":"推給說文化部就是因為文資法不是文資法不義遺址專法還沒有通過事實上如果根據促展會的調查報告我這邊列出來的都是促展會調查報告血案遺址已經非常清楚見證國家介入司法勤制單位就是國安局隱匿關鍵的電話對專案小組隱瞞這個都是我們"},{"start":12535.697,"end":12538.979,"text":"促轉會的報告所以情治國安介入司法侵害人權是明確的事實那這個部分那所以呢我想那個賴總統他的高度那我非常的就是就是"},{"start":12552.129,"end":12573.157,"text":"覺得非常的好他在二二八我們是二二八前夕的記者會二二八之前當天前夕那是當天的發言吧他就承諾說請文化部啟動審議程序將一光教會列為具有轉型正義意義的場所加以保存維護那這是那天賴總統的發言這個臉書上都有"},{"start":12577.859,"end":12598.699,"text":"那根據促轉會的任務總結報告文化部應該要調查建立不義遺址主管機關應成立審議會等等然後才有保存因為促轉會移交給文化部的工作就是保存不義遺址嘛那部長應該可以肯定保存不義遺址的話當然要繼續調查那所以"},{"start":12599.62,"end":12613.124,"text":"我知道那天總質詢的時候我們張雅玲委員就是也很關心這題我們一起開記者會的那天部長您的回應是人權管已經在擬定由民間主動申請暫時替代不移植給予轉型正義異議場域名稱的方案"},{"start":12619.326,"end":12622.908,"text":"我是覺得這是一個很好的開始但是我回來就是查看總統的說法我覺得您這個很好的開始可是有點不符合總統的承諾因為總統的意思是我們讀起來是文化部主動要去做"},{"start":12636.673,"end":12654.361,"text":"文化部要啟動審議的程序那您那邊就會變成說人權會去訂出辦法讓民間自己來提那我是覺得民間已經受挫了一光教會好不容易整合他們的意見主動對台北市文化局"},{"start":12654.741,"end":12671.575,"text":"那在這個時候我覺得依照賴總統的公開的發言那文化部應該要主動那不知道那個部長有讀過那個促轉會的總結的報告關於不義遺址那一張嗎就是文化部被交接的工作有沒有"},{"start":12671.715,"end":12674.817,"text":"那裡面就有講到非常的清楚為什麼一開始的時候沒有藝光教會是因為當時是以公有的財產為主那如果根據那個報告書裡面的"},{"start":12686.803,"end":12709.838,"text":"就是所謂的大量的不幸發生的時候他說這個大量也有包含就是對社會影響甚具的案件就是說基本上就是一光教會以我們對促轉會的報告來講的話完全符合這個意義它對整個社會對我們的民主化的過程有關鍵的影響因為是社會矚目的案件甚至國際矚目"},{"start":12710.839,"end":12722.537,"text":"那既然促轉會的報告都有這個部分了那部長是不是可以承諾就是主動促成這個事不要再等到萬一一光教會沒有來申請呢是不是能夠更積極主動一點"},{"start":12723.993,"end":12746.492,"text":"我們去主動找過一關教會我們剛才講到說要民間來申請是因為當年的不育已死有一個規定就是公有的場所我們可以去設定那私人的我們不能強迫私人的要他來申請要同意我們才能設所以我們用同樣的這個法條我們沒辦法強迫他設所以"},{"start":12747.994,"end":12764.814,"text":"當總統講完那個之後我們人權館就主動去建了這個一貫教會是不是請他來我們人權館的館長跟您報告是否簡短就好因為我待會還有另外一題所以你們已經主動接觸一貫教會了那這個審議的程序是不是能夠專案處理盡快我們可以主動來協助跟輔導"},{"start":12767.697,"end":12791.499,"text":"那大概多久多久的時間內會有結果呢審議的結果會出來以我們現在跟他溝通的過程事實上他們對於這樣的一個做法還沒有很冷很就如何保存如何就是讓這個空間更能彰顯這個轉型的正義當然據說系我是說那可不可以在既然你們已經接觸了一個月內給我一個報告好嗎"},{"start":12794.582,"end":12801.089,"text":"希望能夠盡速確定他的不以已止的地位或者是具轉型正義意義的地位部長 剛剛是問他一個月內給我報告這件事情三個月內應該可以確定吧"},{"start":12811.031,"end":12834.336,"text":"確定說 確定掛牌就是藝光教會是否具有轉型正義意義的一個官方的身份地位當初其實他想要爭取的是跟政府爭取不義遺址那政府把它退回來之後而是台北市文化局 不是政府 台北市文化局部分的政府那我們的確沒有通過這個不義遺址條例嘛對 但是"},{"start":12834.696,"end":12839.021,"text":"你們還是可以繼續審定啊對不對審定是一件正在進行的但是掛上不義遺址這件事情如果這個條例沒有過的話我們就只好想一個總統講的那個就是轉型正義的"},{"start":12850.393,"end":12872.125,"text":"具有轉型正義這個產育這個名稱來取代可是他還不是能夠取代不義一致這個方面我們跟他溝通部長我先打岔一下其實降讀那個東西並沒有排除專法沒過就不能夠有這個名稱那當然這個部分你們的法務可以去了解一下好不好那就先這樣那三個月內這件事可以定案吧"},{"start":12872.854,"end":12886.026,"text":"三個月內給你一個報告 之前三個月內以前給你一個報告那再來就是那當然我想希望文化部盡快實現總統的承諾那第二個部分我想先請問那個文資局文資局 文資司"},{"start":12893.197,"end":12913.868,"text":"這個部分 你們應該知道我要問什麼事吧我現在覺得不能接受的事情是去年3月我們就揭露這件事情比李姓郎師 戲曲學禮上15年來是性侵多名學生 這個嚴重度您知道吧是性侵"},{"start":12915.356,"end":12930.93,"text":"然後這是調查確立的2024年6月戲曲學院就把他解聘終生不能再聘為教師可是呢至今他仍在客家戲曲界活躍多次參與漢陽北館劇團的演出那這個漢陽北館劇團長年受到文化資產局的補助"},{"start":12937.837,"end":12962.096,"text":"那今年二月戲曲學院的學生受紅杏校友邀請參加客家電視台節目演出排練當天才知道是理師帶領那這部分我想先講文資局我在開記者會前給你們空間跟機會因為我們是並沒有真的要找你麻煩可是記者會前文化部文資局給我的是說"},{"start":12963.803,"end":12968.828,"text":"沒有 漢陽北管劇團跟你們講他沒有參與任何的相關活動記者會後 你們今天據說之前給我的資料改口了說他沒有參與你們補助的活動所以是漢陽北管劇團說謊 第一次說謊還是你們 你知道你們在包庇他們 可不可以講一下"},{"start":12989.746,"end":13013.289,"text":"這個我們經過上次記者會之後我們大概做了幾個動作啦第一個我們3月20號有發文給劇團那也當面在昨天也特別找了團長當面的面談好那你現在可不可以講一個多小時以前他們劇團已經正式在臉書上有正式的聲明書有大概他的講法我們他是說"},{"start":13014.13,"end":13017.817,"text":"請問我先很簡單第一次漢陽北館劇團你們問的時候他們是不是說謊"},{"start":13019.147,"end":13044.669,"text":"你們第一次給本席的就是說內容啊就是他完全沒有參與任何活動後來改成說沒有參與你們補助的活動所以就是說那些活動他們有參加但是只是不是你們的補助那這樣第一次你們給本席的資訊在我的記者會前不就是他們說謊然後你們不知道嗎我好心想說你們不知道我想這個是他們帶給我們的資訊那我現在問您他第一次是不是說謊嘛"},{"start":13046.998,"end":13058.231,"text":"我想這個是可能他們表這個我們不敢確認他是不是刻意的還是說他不是刻意說謊所以他有說謊只是你不知道他是不是刻意嗎"},{"start":13061.307,"end":13089.535,"text":"好 那我要講的事情這麼重大一個性侵犯業界都知道漢陽北本劇團立委在詢問記者會前給你們空間還膽敢跟你們掩飾事實那之後你們有沒有再問他說你們第一次為什麼沒有告訴我們那個 您知道這件事情嗎因為我今天質詢前又繼續跟你們要資料啦是那他們有沒有給你一個解釋為什麼第一次不給你真實完整的資訊"},{"start":13093.223,"end":13111.054,"text":"沒有 您到現在都不知道請關切這件事情如果黃子嬌從此不能夠看任何的不能上節目的話這個是性侵犯而且是十幾名學生那這件事情是非常嚴重的好嗎如果一個汗陽北管劇團跟你們說謊的話然後只不讓他參加送你們補助的活動卻讓他上台表演在別的活動我認為這個汗陽北管劇團他在倫理上對性別平等的價值上"},{"start":13122.882,"end":13146.458,"text":"真的就是說不值得拿到我們公家的資源補助那是不是可以請您去調查了解一下他為什麼說謊 好不好好那另外就是因為時間的緣故客家電視台啊我現在覺得那個您是 您的身份是委員好 我是台長台長喔那您有沒有看到那天那個你們客家電視台我們邀請他來我們的記者會他當天說的話有"},{"start":13149.82,"end":13163.051,"text":"我不知道你們是找一個不會說話的人來記者會讓我們執政黨的立委覺得非常的難堪就講一個好像完全聽不懂我們在變什麼為什麼不找一個了解狀況的人他分明就是在迴避有沒有參與排練的事實"},{"start":13165.413,"end":13180.916,"text":"在我今天質詢前給我的資料也完全迴避我們問的是人家人本 戲曲學院自己做的調查都有四名學生接到校友的邀請當天才知道是李詩佳"},{"start":13182.057,"end":13204.539,"text":"講的是排練那你們在跟我玩文字遊戲給我的公視今天的公視幫他背書你這個客家電視台的調查真的是講的是說沒有參加角色名單工作沒有我們講的是排練那你在玩文字遊戲說他沒有演出沒有掛名工作人員你覺得我這個立委是要跟你玩文字遊戲嗎"},{"start":13206.673,"end":13221.785,"text":"局長你有沒有看過給本席的你們的東西公文你同意這個公文的品質嗎報告委員確實在那一天的記者會之後我們同步採取了三個比較主要的行動除了聽到劇團的說法我們不排除就是"},{"start":13222.225,"end":13241.233,"text":"他有不是事實的可能所以我們協同公視的法務人員到他們講到的排練地點實地去敞刊那同時也跟三個主要關鍵的包括團長製作人還有在記者會上提到紅信的老師當面面談從早上九點到十二點是在三月十五號週六這個日子"},{"start":13241.733,"end":13257.119,"text":"那我們也接續的用公文的方式協請台灣戲曲學院以及教育部協助我們調查我知道你們都在公文往返啦那你們有沒有問他說到底有沒有讓學生跟這個性侵狼屍理屍排列就這麼簡單的事實陳述他跟你說沒有"},{"start":13259.54,"end":13274.689,"text":"是不是我們透過公文的方式也確實收到回函那他們不僅有這個台灣李源戲劇團的回函還有當時的導演以及你們都只能跟他們公文喔不能夠你們下面的節目只能跟他們公文不能問他說有沒有參與有我們有問他那他說沒有"},{"start":13279.412,"end":13289.861,"text":"收到的資訊目前因為沒有辦法用單方的資訊來做驗證所以我們協請教育部或許他們那邊可以有比較多我想我們周圍站起來不想浪費大家時間部長你聽到他們調查的品質了"},{"start":13295.586,"end":13316.164,"text":"就是說不知道為什麼只能用公文公文都在迴避事實說沒有做別的事那可是公文都已經呈現很危險的資料要那位主角去跟這個理事請教身段請教什麼然後講得不清不楚我的中文不夠好看不懂到底有沒有碰面什麼之後只有電話那之前呢為什麼要玩這種文字遊戲你們這種調查品質文化部長請您"},{"start":13320.988,"end":13343.282,"text":"讓他們台長本身性別平等的訓練顯然不足文資剛剛那位是局長嘛顯然不夠重視這件事我跟他說性侵十幾名戲曲學院終生不得聘任的老師那可以讓下面的人這樣子呼嚨我們大家浪費我的時間我們去年就揭曝這個事情今年又跟郭玉琴委員今年三個立委"},{"start":13343.902,"end":13359.596,"text":"今天我再度質詢還是沒辦法得到答案真的是非常非常對你們不夠重視這件事情非常的失望我相信部長不了解這件事情部長可不可以給我一個檢討報告為什麼一個案子要花我們這麼多時間他是杏青郎師十幾名學生部長可以給我一個檢討報告嗎"},{"start":13366.033,"end":13371.715,"text":"我知道他們正在調查了可是這個過程真的讓人失望那多久內可以給我一個檢討報告我要以文化部的名義給我一個檢討報告 好嗎兩個月還是一個月 部長兩個月好嗎好 兩個月 好 謝謝昭緯 謝謝好 謝謝范雲委員 部長請回我們接下來請王洪威委員"},{"start":13402.137,"end":13411.642,"text":"謝謝主席我請部長還有我們央廣董事長賴董事長好我們請李部長還有賴董事長王委員您好先等先等董事長"},{"start":13425.217,"end":13449.885,"text":"部長董事長我想不管是公視或者是央廣都是國家的電視台廣播電台而且都拿了非常多的公務預算但是我看今天的質詢都發現在這裡面藏汙納垢我今天主要是要來問剛才董事長有回答羅廷維委員大家都要問央廣四年前的弊案"},{"start":13451.085,"end":13459.416,"text":"有沒有調查報告剛才部長還有董事長說有調查報告報告在哪裡報告公佈在哪裡請回答公佈在哪裡"},{"start":13467.366,"end":13487.674,"text":"跟羅委員報告這個報告因為還在廉政署的報告調查當中所以你們根本沒有公布報告嗎很抱歉我要說明我們後來經過了去識別化之後提供給所有關心這個案子的委員然後我們也請託所以只有個別委員是所以並沒有公開報告好我要講的是這個幣案請問一下央廣的預算來自於全體納稅人的錢"},{"start":13497.097,"end":13512.64,"text":"所以你只公布給關心的委員或者之前有詢問過的委員所以並沒有做出一個向人民報告的一個公開的報告那請問一下剛才董事長也說啊這個事情我們已經檢討過了請問一下有懲處任何一位嗎而當時所懲處的說當時有留任員職而且還升官的是不是仍然維持這樣的一個懲處"},{"start":13528.161,"end":13536.846,"text":"當時的主管已經被撤職然後同時有寄過所以並沒有升官 並不是這個樣寄過 有沒有離職 有沒有撤職沒有吧 董事長 當時請問一下當時的崔少仁有沒有跟你"},{"start":13554.652,"end":13557.444,"text":"報告過包含這個弊案跟他霸凌有沒有"},{"start":13558.464,"end":13585.836,"text":"跟委員報告在我上任之後這個案子我有去了解但是我也做內部的所以你知道嗎請問你當央廣董事長多久了三年三年所以這個四年前的案子這個案子崔少仁一直緊追不放到現在為止好在廉政署公佈了你們相關因為廉政署是沒有完全公佈但是已經他的報告公開五千多筆有超過兩千四百筆單據一場"},{"start":13587.597,"end":13591.158,"text":"所以 董事長 你沒有責任嗎?你沒有責任嗎?你剛講說感到遺憾一句遺憾 結束了嗎?部長 你去蕭蕭演講的時候拿了一個大碗公說這個是討飯吃請問一下今天是可以用這種炸零然後這些不實的單據來討飯吃嗎?可以嗎?"},{"start":13614.022,"end":13626.837,"text":"所以董事長你對這件事情有沒有任何的行政責任呢你自己有沒有任何行政責任你自己說你當了央視那個就是央廣三年當了央廣三年的董事長對這個案子到現在為止你只是親戚的一句遺憾"},{"start":13635.481,"end":13635.942,"text":"妳要道歉嗎?"},{"start":13665.982,"end":13691.114,"text":"公道的一個來處理請問一下有關於他的霸凌案你們會重啟調查嗎是的我們已經公告我們已經重啟調查然後這個調查裡頭會有法外部的法律專家跟律師然後會有心理師而且還會什麼時候重啟調查這個案子重新立案調查我們前天已經公開宣布了"},{"start":13691.454,"end":13715.289,"text":"所以從前天才開始如果今天當事人沒有再公開聲明沒有再公開向社會大眾呼喊你們也沒有重新調查所以是在前天才開始重新立案調查好董事長再給你最後一個機會最後機會你對這個案子除了遺憾之外你有任何的道歉嗎"},{"start":13716.792,"end":13734.581,"text":"我針對過去央廣曾經有違規或者是不法的事情針對那個時候所呈現的事情我現在代表央廣我可以說這是非常遺憾的但是我們也做了非常多的道歉不認為要道歉我甚至認為連部長這件事情等一下我現在問部長不要浪費我時間"},{"start":13745.146,"end":13773.732,"text":"你該講的時候不講現在一直講你該處理的時候不處理部長當時這三個這三年來剛才董事長也說他擔任董事他擔任董事崔少仁有把相關的這些資料提供給董事包含他霸凌的情形被霸凌的情形他也提供給董事那請問一下如果現在還在留任董事的你要不要重新做一個調查請問"},{"start":13775.52,"end":13791.886,"text":"他們的責任要不要重新做一個調查其實每件事情他都沒有講這麼簡單比如說吹哨人他是不是真的吹哨人他霸凌是不是在墾丁中調查中有霸凌我們把很多事情把它簡化掉但是我非常承認這件事情非常嚴重"},{"start":13792.546,"end":13810.994,"text":"因為我在這個文化界工作50年我經歷過很多機構非常多的貪污非常多的假帳我非常不能夠忍受所以我承諾你我會搞清楚 好嗎好 謝謝部長我覺得包括當然這個案件還有當事人說他被霸凌他現在重新立案調查在這個過程裡面這個懲處"},{"start":13815.296,"end":13829.134,"text":"當時陳處 大家都有質疑還有所有經手的 主管也好 董事也好剛站在後面 他也是擔任董事我認為都要重啟行政調查 可以嗎"},{"start":13829.977,"end":13852.544,"text":"沒有問題啊我個人聽到這個我就會想到我過去這50年來到處遇到這種事情啊但是事情的真相只有靠徹底調查不能夠再聽單方面的話我跟您承諾謝謝我不希望到時候吹哨人又要重新的再去跟社會大眾做一次呼籲跟呼喊好不好是是沒問題謝謝好謝謝謝謝王宏威委員不讓請回喔好我們接下來請洪孟凱委員"},{"start":13867.662,"end":13869.352,"text":"主席謝謝 麻煩請李遠部長"},{"start":13872.278,"end":13899.694,"text":"好有請李部長部長 黃偉你好我想延續因為今天一早上大家都很關心央廣這件事件您剛剛也再一次重申身為文化人不能接受有這樣子被詐領的一個案件嘛 是不是好 但是我覺得不要高高舉起輕輕放下這件事情為什麼感覺到那麼的嚴重我覺得還是幾個部分我們看一下現在新聞已經揭露出來的狀況"},{"start":13902.162,"end":13930.678,"text":"檢報 有嗎來 下一張 下一張好 2000多筆異常這是現在廉政署暴露出來的嘛那當時是有委由來 我們上一張當時是文化部有要求央廣要委外調查但調查報告沒有公開那我想請教當時的委外調查報告結案了沒有結案嘛 有沒有送到文化部"},{"start":13932.677,"end":13932.697,"text":"什麼?"},{"start":13945.45,"end":13966.317,"text":"當時都有逐級成合都有成合 有成合到部長嗎是的 那成合之後也因為我們會針對中間其實有些比較缺失的太陽我們也在111年的時候就進行了移送檢調的動作那目前就是在偵查當中所以過去三年多已從111年的時候送檢調到現在才再次來做處理是不是這樣當時這個報告列為不公開是誰的決定是文化部還是央廣"},{"start":13976.232,"end":13985.371,"text":"因為這一份查核報告是央廣進行委外的部分是文化部要求央廣委外調查那但是到最後調查報告不公開這是誰的決定"},{"start":13988.342,"end":14008.848,"text":"跟委員報告因為這個案子他這個會計師裡頭的資料有非常多的個資而且有些人並不見得違法所以當時董事會是有除了向文化部向商城還有董事會報告之外並沒有對外公開好來部長來我們再看下一張"},{"start":14013.691,"end":14034.444,"text":"當時的行政報告其實行政調查其實就是高高舉起輕輕放下錢沒有落入到任何一個口袋但是認定沒有弊端這是現在這邊秀出來的那結果時任的職員還都有留在原職有人退休還有人高升我想請教部長"},{"start":14036.506,"end":14047.615,"text":"經過上禮拜到這禮拜這樣紛紛擾擾以及你今天早上我想你今天來備詢一定是有備而來嘛有沒有了解到底有多少涉案的人如今還高升有沒有了解並沒有人高升啊並沒有人高升所以說這個新聞寫錯我不知道他寫的一人升任組密一人退休"},{"start":14060.491,"end":14065.047,"text":"這個是我要請教單事人他有沒有生竹蜜有沒有退休我真的不知道"},{"start":14065.888,"end":14094.994,"text":"你真的不知道還是你不了解還是從頭到尾沒有想要去關心這件事情部長這是你的態度問題耶本席剛剛很認同或說很尊重你的態度也認為是說有弊案那個時候你不是當部長所以你不了解不怪你但是從上禮拜五出來這件事件央廣昨天發了新聞稿央廣新聞稿當然寫得很漂亮冠冕堂皇改了多少改了多少但重點在於是2015年到2021年七年多"},{"start":14095.934,"end":14121.668,"text":"的時間裡面高達兩三千筆的錯誤單據那還有這些錯誤單據不是只是央廣的部分它裡面甚至有提到是說也有跟其他的公家機關互相的帳戶的往來不清也因此才會有廉政署出手嘛為什麼是有廉政署出手就是因為是公務體系內部的不管是支出 不管是收入廉政署來處理啊"},{"start":14127.366,"end":14139.365,"text":"您覺得這都沒您的事還是好官我自為之反正有啊那時候有行政調查報告啊有簽到文化部啊沒錯啊央廣的董事長剛剛有講了但那個時候的部長不是我啊"},{"start":14140.333,"end":14160.82,"text":"不是這樣子好官我自為之也不是這樣子其實我剛才一直跟你們講我幹了五十年幹過多少機構這種事情當然是有我完全不能忍受當然不能忍受我也不能忍受但是我不能夠忘下我更沒有辦法接受事實上發生事情之後還沒有辦法公開透明我為什麼不能忘下結論因為這裡面一定很複雜嘛人為的 結構的"},{"start":14165.182,"end":14188.016,"text":"財務的 會計的 法律的我看起來喔非常複雜複雜是人搞出來的因為當時文化部已經要求委外調查為什麼要委外為什麼不是我們部內調查就是怕部內調查可能官官相護嘛那我既然已經委外調查了結果調查出來的結果之後以一個錢沒有進任何人口袋然後就結案了事"},{"start":14192.213,"end":14210.407,"text":"那部長我還是尊重喔我尊重你要看不慣路見不平拔刀相助要來調查要來要求用你的態度讓所有文化部下面的單位或者是至少我們讓我們的公務體系知道未來不會有這樣的狀況您要怎麼做"},{"start":14213.028,"end":14227.759,"text":"再找另外一個委外單位來調查不會不會 我們目前剛剛已經講過公管集團的董事會已經要求成立一個專案小組那這個部分我會責成專案小組的負責人會是誰我不曉得"},{"start":14235.525,"end":14249.899,"text":"這個就是央廣的事情我們現在釐清到現在了就是央廣內部的問題四年前為什麼文化部要求委外調查就是認為說不要公關相護那結果做出來的調查報告是這個樣子你現在再過來四年後"},{"start":14251.024,"end":14266.956,"text":"廉政署在處理廉政署的工作但你自己有內部調查的作業那我現在請教內部調查的作業到底是部長宣誓來說我來帶領這個專案小組來查弊案來檢視到底有沒有不合理還是你責成哪一個市長"},{"start":14269.096,"end":14284.012,"text":"這跟處理霸凌案事件我覺得類似啊霸凌案事件絕對不能讓那個單位自己主管自己調查如果說那個單位主管自己調查的話那 抱歉一定是大事化小 小事化無嘛那我現在已經有出來這樣的狀況而且"},{"start":14286.132,"end":14304.2,"text":"上禮拜新聞你也有表示檢調調查中文化部的態度是完全透明好嘛 那檢調調查 廉政署調查的歸廉政署調查但你文化部到目前為止你之前 今天早上我有聽到喔你說一個月裡面也要給我們相關資料"},{"start":14305.541,"end":14316.032,"text":"那我們可以期待什麼一個月如果你到現在都不知道說誰來負責做這件事情我怎麼期待我一個月之後收到什麼樣的資料會不會又是兩頁三頁部長"},{"start":14321.687,"end":14347.745,"text":"我想在這邊跟你保證我請次長我們一個次長層級的次長來盯整件事因為他比較負責全部的因為本身我想請王次他本身也是在我們部裡面負責這種霸凌性平的那他剛好也是負責這個單位可以嗎我在這裡跟你保證因為我也不希望這種事情一直拖下去王實施次長"},{"start":14348.525,"end":14375.475,"text":"負責整個專案報告來把這件事情從過去四年的機密文件機密報告沒有公開的也做一個釐清以及現在的狀況一個月後可以給我們立法院可以讓國人知道到底這個事情的經過是怎麼樣去標籤化沒有要個資但去標籤化釐清事實真相是嗎"},{"start":14376.67,"end":14403.281,"text":"我跟委員報告我們自己在我們文化部部內律己慎言對那個姓平的一個紅人我相信百分之九十九點九會說有靈丸當然真的很有信任也都絕對不會通常枉法但是既然已經出現了我們就把它給釐清 好嗎是不是部長會後再跟紅委員報告好不好不好意思"},{"start":14407.196,"end":14412,"text":"好 部長辛苦請回好 我們接下來請伍麗華委員謝謝主席 有請部長好 有請部長"},{"start":14427.688,"end":14429.13,"text":"部長好 部長我們今年有一個國際矚目的大活動4月13號即將登場"},{"start":14439.198,"end":14465.025,"text":"就是在日本大阪舉辦的世界博覽會那我也特別在新聞中看到上個月交通部林佳龍部長和外交部林部長跟您也有一個會議就是你們特別提到這個世界博覽會即將到來你們要聯手要來延伸去年巴黎文化奧運的成功經驗"},{"start":14466.445,"end":14491.51,"text":"那文化部這邊這次會做哪些事情這個活動從4月開始已經由經濟部開始為主導我們大概在8月我們是8月那個你們8月要進場對 然後會一個比較長的時間在不同地點表演部長 我跟您說我其實也很關心我去年有找來國貿署"},{"start":14493.43,"end":14512.766,"text":"以及要來承攬這個的中華冒險我曾經兩度請他們到辦公室來因為我很關心展出的內容有沒有邀請我們原住民的這些藝文團體又或者說展覽的內容有沒有有關我們台灣原住民族的文化"},{"start":14513.627,"end":14527.777,"text":"但是在預算會期的時候 我看到更憂心的是竟然被刪了5.9億的旅費 業務費等等等甚至是沒宣費用5900萬也被刪除"},{"start":14531.339,"end":14560.019,"text":"那我今天是來文化部這邊我就是特別想要來關心我們文化部我相信很多的部會可以一同的在這樣的一個世界博覽會舞台上來共同的努力展現我們台灣多元的文化所以在這邊就是特別希望我們部長您要關心像例如有一個議題我在去年有接到一個陳情這個陳情人呢他其實是日本人"},{"start":14560.939,"end":14582.902,"text":"他說他到他們大阪這個國立的原住民族博物館過去長期以來都有展出我們台灣各個族群的物件但是他感到很驚訝因為有一個展覽叫做中國地域之文化的展覽"},{"start":14583.883,"end":14607.5,"text":"也就是中國的版圖的意思啦他看到這個展區呢有把我們原住民族寫成高山族把它納入中國的版圖來展覽甚至呢原來一模一樣台灣展的物件呢被拿去移植也來做他們中國的展示廳的展品"},{"start":14608.18,"end":14612.044,"text":"那這個部分他之所以驚訝是說他不太理解從台灣來的參與者呢好像沒有做什麼抗議導致他們的管方也沒有辦法理解這種一中五入台灣的嚴重性那我不曉得說部長您知不知道這個事情那這一次剛好我們的世界博覽會又要在大阪"},{"start":14630.484,"end":14638.352,"text":"那我相信很多來自全世界各地的遊客也都會來這個博物館參觀部長你有沒有有一些了解"},{"start":14639.89,"end":14662.188,"text":"這件事情我並不知道但是我知道中國本身在各個地方都把台灣試著納入它的一部分這個是它本身不斷地在做的事情但是站在我們的立場我非常努力地從去年巴黎文化奧運到現在我們在每一次的任何展出都要強調我們是來自台灣即使在"},{"start":14663.149,"end":14691.989,"text":"官方網站上不准出現台灣我們都非常努力的用各種方式出現那中國用這個方式其實他們到處在用這個方式包括我們申請這個世界遺址他們也很快把我們蓋過去像這個事情到處都發生那部長我之所以會提是因為4月13號就在大阪冷場那正在我們的大阪這個國立民族學的博物館呢"},{"start":14692.95,"end":14707.557,"text":"有這樣的一個站出然後陳情的人他說我們台灣沒有表示什麼立場那照理說全世界博物館都在解殖民啊那我們其實是不贊同"},{"start":14708.297,"end":14726.405,"text":"我們把這些殖民收購來的文物放在博覽館炫耀展示當然它有它教育的意義我們也可以這樣說但是現在世界的趨勢是要解殖民所以我在這個地方就是特別提出來我希望部長你能夠去了解這件事也請同仁能夠去讓我們知道未來它目前的狀況跟未來因應的一個方向那也作為文化部未來我們在這個全世界各地"},{"start":14738.09,"end":14753.087,"text":"這些博物館內的原住民的 特別是原住民的這些收藏品像我自己也協助在愛丁堡 英國愛丁堡那個遺骨返還那我想文化部未來有沒有這樣的一個政策性的規劃"},{"start":14755.55,"end":14781.22,"text":"我剛剛委員講到解職這個概念台灣本身針對早期別人怎麼稱呼是高山族或者高沙族到現在改成原住民其實這些年來我們一直把原住民的文化裡面每一個習俗 舞蹈 歌唱都代表台灣出去一個非常重要的元素這點請委員放心我們都會把它列入是一個非常重要的表演"},{"start":14781.34,"end":14807.086,"text":"那這個大阪的國立民族學博物館我也請部長因為這個活動我完全不知道的所以部長這其實是蠻駭人的一件事情讓人很驚訝那作為文化部我希望部長能夠請我們的同仁能夠去了解也能夠跟辦公室這邊做一個報告好 那另外一件事情在三個月前我要特別謝謝文化部文字局"},{"start":14808.806,"end":14829.593,"text":"泰雅族的很重要很重要的這個所謂的聖石Svayam他們已經努力了十多年終於成功的通過作為國家級的文資重要文化資產我必須要在這個地方來特別來跟部長文化部說聲謝謝但是真的很辛苦爭取十多年"},{"start":14830.313,"end":14851.683,"text":"那我自己是在2020年的2月進入到立法院我也有接受他們的陳情那當時呢我們有協助就是爭取前瞻再造歷史場域的經費當時有爭取到800多萬可以把這個地方去做一個所謂的文化設施的整理但很可惜就是地方政府沒有作為"},{"start":14852.583,"end":14872.963,"text":"所以最後這筆錢收回那我們要再次的協助地方去爭取也謝謝最後文化部文資局這邊也有提供兩百多萬讓他們可以去做步道等等那我在這邊要提這個問題的原因是說其實我們有一個原住民族重大歷史文化事件紀念空間的補助要點"},{"start":14875.646,"end":14894.216,"text":"那過去呢 園民會 它是提出了原住民重大的歷史文化事件有十大事件 他們也有專書那文化部這邊呢 是空間補助作業要點我想請教一下部長 就是到底做了幾個空間補助局長也可以局長比較具體跟您報告一下那個項目"},{"start":14903.36,"end":14927.779,"text":"這個原住民族的重大歷史事件它的定義都是由原民會它會定義哪些重大歷史事件那我們在這個補助要點裡面它第一個就是這些重大歷史事件它必須有做了幾件了現在目前我們有三個案子已經有所謂重大歷史事件也包括所以做了三個案子物色事件物色事件那牡丹色事件好那我其實之前在原民會文化部我都有質詢過"},{"start":14929.56,"end":14948.414,"text":"我們不局限在十大像我之前有提過南番事件也很重要那謝謝也有補助調研的經費但是調研的下一步是什麼 結案啦原民會那邊有補助調研經費 結案啦那能不能夠申請空間補助"},{"start":14951.001,"end":14974.537,"text":"可以啊 只要他有文化資產身份就可以那像那個李洞山事件呢李洞山現在正在做文化資產調查研究是 調研經費也有給了嘛我們都希望做完調研的下一步我們應該要到所謂的空間的補助那我在這個地方特別做這樣的一個提醒因為說實在 案件非常的少 速度比較緩慢一點"},{"start":14976.098,"end":14986.79,"text":"那在這裡呢 我很重視空間 為什麼因為原住民是在跟我們的時間賽跑所以我一直很關心 像有很多的東西像我舉個例子 石板屋其實石板屋是很美 很重要的一個文化資產但是呢 老師要取得文資身份喔 很累"},{"start":14996.101,"end":15007.847,"text":"然後呢 如果壞掉了修復 他又沒有所謂的建造始造也很難去申請所謂的一個修復那一般老百姓 我也沒錢啊他也不願意修復 然後就沒有了"},{"start":15013.601,"end":15043.061,"text":"我想這個不是我們政府的希望所以我常常說這一些不具文字身份的那我們要怎麼樣去改善我們在跟時間賽跑像很多的祖靈屋非常的重要但是也苦於找不到對應的科目可以來申請經費像是我們的這個所謂的國家文化記憶庫以這個彭水光或者是琉璃珠之母江雅蕾這兩位這個是他們的私人博物館"},{"start":15044.242,"end":15070.884,"text":"他們自己在家裡也自己做博物館一邊做他們的工作室一邊做這樣的一個地方私人的博物館但是很辛苦像我常常講他已經要被人家收回了他也不知道他未來的這些展覽要放在哪裡那像彭水光他已經失智了那他的家人也不知道這一些這麼漂亮的木雕到底要何去何從甚至有可能要把它給一一的賣掉"},{"start":15072.705,"end":15087.379,"text":"我想這也不是我們國家要的所以像這種只記憶但是我們卻沒有辦法保存非常的可惜那甚至是像我們很多原住民的巫師我們所謂的靈媒布林奧那他們呢傳承也很困難"},{"start":15090.982,"end":15095.383,"text":"一一的凋零他們也很希望我們能夠使用政府的什麼計畫嗎是師徒制可以給我們嗎他們其實都很辛苦我講這些只是因為我看到我們的夜報上我們有一個新的計畫叫做百大文化基地那我認真看了一下好像喔像有提到地方文化館提到文化展演據點社區營造的地方據點文化路徑等等等"},{"start":15119.631,"end":15124.145,"text":"我不知道他們有沒有資格那請教一下 正美醫案補助的很多嗎這個計畫會維持幾年呢"},{"start":15128.595,"end":15156.711,"text":"好 我跟委員報告一下這個計畫是一個新想出來的一個計畫是它每兩年一次每兩年舉行一次讓各地方的場館博物館 美術館或者您剛才講到原住民的一些社造他們都來申請申請之後我們請學者專家選出100個它的目的就是去凸顯它不同的文化層面所以是每兩年選出100個對 然後預算並不高預算多少"},{"start":15157.051,"end":15176.343,"text":"每一個被選出來的我們給他五十萬分兩年可是我想要做的另外一件事就是試著去用這樣的方式去找到別的部會一起來做謝謝部長 謝謝您我喜歡很感動你這樣的一個表態對 我要講的意思就是這樣很多很多摯愛難行的"},{"start":15177.984,"end":15182.207,"text":"我覺得我們如果覺得他真的重要我們就付諸行動我們來想一個計畫的型態我們來抱怨我們核定之後我們來幫助他們所以在這邊我聽到部長這樣的回應我非常的高興請部長還有我們的局長你們都很努力我們繼續一起努力一起加油謝謝主席是我們會努力好那也希望就是一個月內能夠把這樣的一個態度也能夠用一個書面回應給我好謝謝"},{"start":15208.868,"end":15211.431,"text":"好 謝謝 謝謝吳麗華委員 部長就位接下來我們請吳思瑤委員謝謝主席 請部長好 有請部長"},{"start":15230.686,"end":15248.014,"text":"吳委員你好吳長好很開心回教文會來關心我最在乎的文化政策那當然我會聚焦在這一次的預算被二砍二山二棟文化成了重災戶當然我也期待您說的文化人不是要飯的我們要一起來做打造台灣的文化聚寶盆"},{"start":15252.856,"end":15276.805,"text":"但是預算就是受害了 我們怎麼辦呢下一頁我這邊要先跟您談喔最近大家都在講言論自由我放的是我立志從政就是1989年我受到鄭楠榮先生他為了爭取台灣百分之百的言論自由 他自焚了那時候我十多歲我因此立志我要從政"},{"start":15277.725,"end":15302.367,"text":"小葉老師您也是在美麗島事件前後您原本在美國就回來台灣您投入台灣的電影新浪潮的運動甚至你投入電視界以後你也推動台灣電視界的文化復興我想您的DNA裡頭是絕對追求百分之百的創作自由的但是呢言論自由有兩種一種是真正的言論自由"},{"start":15303.428,"end":15326.962,"text":"是宪法层级也是国际的公民与政治国际公约所保护的言论自由但是有一种言论自由是坏的是错的是假的就是假借言论自由来进行仇恨的暴力的战争的鼓吹我想您都非常认同言论自由有两种台湾要捍卫哪一种中配也有两种"},{"start":15327.987,"end":15348.433,"text":"一種是在台灣但是卻鼓張鼓吹武統濫用台灣的言論自由的呀呀另外一種讓我們可敬的中配就是八旗出版社的復查他在台灣因為出版了一些中國不喜歡的書"},{"start":15350.117,"end":15359.827,"text":"他剛被判刑你知道嗎在中國毫無正當法律程序毫無公開審判的司法下他被求重刑"},{"start":15361.127,"end":15381.408,"text":"中配有兩種我們要捍衛跟支持的是複查這一種但是複查的事件當然我知道文化部第一時間想救援但是也尊重家屬的意願但是無論如何作為台灣文化出版文學創作的大家長複查被重判"},{"start":15382.609,"end":15395.096,"text":"文化部有沒有任何聲援部長有沒有利用您的臉書您也是個文學人文化人我們給予捍衛台灣的自由創作出版自由我們應當發聲我們應當發聲有沒有"},{"start":15401.408,"end":15406.954,"text":"我在民間的時候我有參與這個聲援但是作為文化部長的時候 我覺得我們的官方的聲明不曉得會不會危害到複雜 更嚴重的被中共對抗所以我理解在當時不明的狀況之下 我們是要拿捏"},{"start":15423.61,"end":15442.25,"text":"但现在因为中共要的就是造成寒蝉效应让台湾的出版自由受到强害这个时候我认为文化部应当有所声援的动作同样的我们有这么多的文化界的人士站出来因为我们的文化预算被恶砍"},{"start":15443.433,"end":15471.491,"text":"所以文化人的集結發生今天有第三片的這個反罷免對不起這個投入這個我們大罷免的這個我在這裡不講政治我講文化因為每一天文化人在做的就是批判社會就是關懷政治那同樣的楊立洲導演也受到了暴力的威脅某種程度他的文化表意的自由也受到強害我認為文化部也要聲援他力挺他"},{"start":15472.797,"end":15472.919,"text":"你認為呢"},{"start":15474.721,"end":15503.118,"text":"委員講到這裡我跟委員講當揚立州出現有人威脅的時候其實我就找內政部長我說他這樣子發生我們得抓到那個威脅他的人然後我們要給他加強維安那內政部長跟我講說他第一次被威脅他就有加強維安那最近公布出來已經抓到那個當初威脅他的人是一個計程車司機所以這一切我想我們國家能做就是我們也不能干預"},{"start":15503.598,"end":15525.444,"text":"第一线保护维安就如同刚刚我们要保护复查在中国那时候下落不明他的安全我同意但是必要的时候我认为当台湾的创作自由受到强害的时候作为文化的大家长我们必须捍卫我们的自由在文化人来讲这非常重要下一页为什么要锁定文化预算来恶砍重砍下一页"},{"start":15526.553,"end":15548.968,"text":"就是如果台灣的文化被噤聲了這個世界上只剩下中國的文化霸權只剩下中國的聲音前夜所以這一次文化預算遭刪除11億遭凍結34億樣樣相向都對準了讓我們的文化被勒住了脖子我要說這是中國的文化霸權"},{"start":15549.889,"end":15564.602,"text":"他鎖定了文化部門下一頁而除了鎖定文化部門他更鎖定文化部門當中的第一線的發聲的管道例如特定經費從我們的國際交流國際旅費媒體宣傳來下手然後針對機構的部分鎖定了公視還好被民意擋下來"},{"start":15575.765,"end":15601.471,"text":"沒了公視 當初要砍23億沒了公視 台灣要看央視嗎台灣plus也被下重手當然我對台灣plus很多的營運還要再努力我也有意見 我也要監督但是這都是他們重中之重的鎖定包括中央通訊社也是為台灣文化發生重要的平台還有剛剛一直在被在野黨委員為難的央廣"},{"start":15604.059,"end":15610.888,"text":"陽廣如果有弊案當然要查我也不容不查跟怠惰但是弊案調查中"},{"start":15612.533,"end":15639.506,"text":"調查中的案子不要再來政治干預調查了所以這些都是台灣被消音了世界只剩下中國的聲音我認為這一切的作為包括鎖定文化預算還有文化預算當中的特定機構還有央廣不斷的被為難央廣這幾年做了很多過去的央廣做不到的事譬如說強化國際的鏈接譬如說央廣"},{"start":15641.829,"end":15661.217,"text":"去成立了我們新聞部的這個中國小組我們要向社會傳達正確的華人的聲音還有我們全面針對媒體的嗜讀如何來因應防範認知作戰這都是這幾年央廣的成就不要因為"},{"start":15662.818,"end":15684.963,"text":"單一弊案打趴央廣這事背後的政治意圖是什麼要給予央廣努力的同仁合理的評價所以從公共電視、台灣Plus中央通訊社乃至於央廣你也認為是不是有被集中鎖定這背後有一個不知名的力量讓我們必須要慎防"},{"start":15687.486,"end":15702.333,"text":"我覺得獨裁政權最怕就是這種文化跟言論自由跟媒體一個獨裁政權它最需要封鎖的就是這個那我覺得像我們這次被審預算的時候我也發現到為什麼全部是針對這個公共媒體"},{"start":15703.433,"end":15730.155,"text":"我感謝那個委員剛才講到那個中央央廣其實這幾年央廣也好中央通訊社也好公視基金會也好他們扮演的角色不如不如外面所說的只有那些缺點他們的確也扮演了一個公共媒體的重要性那這次被刪的結果台灣plus他有很多做不對的地方但是他這次的刪是刪掉刪跟動大概有"},{"start":15731.164,"end":15756.692,"text":"去掉一半他幾乎要關台那他我承認他有很多問題我也還不滿意他在做了五年之後他累積了一些那個成果跟能量也是很難得的但你把他一口氣關掉那等於前面的努力全部白費所以我我認為這次的刪減是非常有針對性是謝謝主席我最後收尾我想"},{"start":15758.339,"end":15774.453,"text":"文化部門受重傷 我長期爭取文化建設從前瞻 從無私要催生的文化發展基金我後面沒有時間講了 下一頁但是我們如何讓台灣文化的聚寶盆讓文化免於這一次的全面性的災難"},{"start":15775.894,"end":15794.565,"text":"我們還要有更多想方設法我非常謝謝大家我這幾天陸續找各個私處同仁大家來商量那因為剛剛講到國際傳媒馬上就上路的大阪勢博文化勢博的部分我們因此也受了影響它馬上就到了我們要善用Mega Event"},{"start":15795.425,"end":15815.405,"text":"讓台灣的文化成為台灣的Nation Brand國家的品牌有沒有可能用各種方式在經費被刪百分之百的每天預算被刪但是文化勢博在大阪又是這麼台日友好的大阪有沒有任何方式強化我們在文化勢博這一次的推廣就在今年"},{"start":15816.736,"end":15841.913,"text":"就是說預算被大概兩千萬的所有宣傳那個費用在這邊全部被刪掉那我們現在就想辦法透過跟民間組織合作然後透過跟外交部的合作我們一定不會因為預算被刪減之後讓這個活動我給期許我也持續給監督但我也持續送暖謝謝主席給我時間後面的題目都沒辦法講我希望還有文化部門的機會我可以跟大家來討論謝謝謝謝委員好 謝謝吳斯堯委員"},{"start":15846.576,"end":15849.818,"text":"好 部長請回好 接下來請高金淑美委員謝謝主席 有請李部長好 有請李部長"},{"start":15864.741,"end":15884.989,"text":"高委員您好部長好 上次本席在這邊跟您討論跟要求您的部分就是預算編列反映了政策的思想文化部在113年度的總預算有298億元可是在原住民族文化事務發展相關經費卻只有2億元僅僅佔文化部總預算的0.7%我們連1%都不到當時部長您有允諾我"},{"start":15890.831,"end":15914.904,"text":"你說會增加原住民族文化發展預算也會提供給本席文化部明年度也就是114年度的預算的政策報告書並且你要制定民時相符的多元文化政策而今天文化部的業務報告裡面我看到了有關原住民的政策其實也只有三項第一項在第七頁"},{"start":15916.065,"end":15942.73,"text":"國家語言包含原住民族語這部分只有提起沒有提出具體的執行事項第二項是在第15頁就是辦理原住民族無形文化資產輔導工作坊部長您知道嗎正是本席在2022年10月22號在這裡針對前部長李永德為了要辦理解決文資爭議落實文化資產保存工作的時候提出的也"},{"start":15943.61,"end":15967.94,"text":"有具體的一些落實方案然後在你的第四項第23頁裡面說到台灣原創流行音樂大獎包含了原住民族語的組別這部分也只有提起沒有具體的執行事項請問部長我想請問你一下文化部在114年度的預算用在原住民族文化發展的預算有沒有增加"},{"start":15969.281,"end":15995.735,"text":"如果從預算上來看我們增加了七千七百二十一萬從數字上看就多了七千七百二十一萬那其實我們的原住民的文化預算他放在每一個科目裡面他不是一個我覺得您會這麼講所以呢在今天你業務報告裡面我搜尋相關原住民的就這三項好以上我提的這些問題還有這個預算實質要放在哪裡"},{"start":15996.855,"end":16010.764,"text":"能不能在一個星期之內提供完整的資料還有上次你答應過我的一年之內要怎麼提到援助民族的民時相輔的多元文化政策一個禮拜提供給我好嗎已經拖了一年了"},{"start":16012.185,"end":16027.374,"text":"已經拖了一年了因為它有些東西是它不是一個數字它真的是涵蓋在每個項目裡面我跟委員解釋一下不用解釋了部長因為今天沒有很多的時間好不好我請你兩個禮拜給我另外我想要請教部長作為一個資深的文化工作者還有作家"},{"start":16035.459,"end":16052.139,"text":"您經歷過戒嚴時期的言論還有思想的限制跟審查你也經歷了、了解了這個戒嚴之後所謂的民主自由的發展而你現在更成為了中華民國行政院的文化部長"},{"start":16053.18,"end":16081.535,"text":"按照您的資歷您怎麼看待台灣目前有75位學者昨天所發表的聲明而這份聲明有三個重點第一個台灣民主自由正在遭到破壞跟威脅第二不要讓今日的烏克蘭明日的台灣的咒語成真第三個台灣在兩岸跟世界和平上可以扮演關鍵的角色而這些學者他也呼籲"},{"start":16082.715,"end":16107.202,"text":"請政府停止思想審查而我們的總統府也立刻回應了這個說明他說鼓吹對台發動侵略戰爭仇恨跟強暴的犯行已經觸犯聯合國公約明確規範的犯罪行為是對台灣自由民主國家體制的挑戰也抵觸民主跟言論自由的紅線"},{"start":16108.522,"end":16129.879,"text":"部長你應該很清楚民進黨長年以來推崇言論自由的象徵是誰鄭南榮先生鄭南榮先生他曾經主張百分之百的言論自由而總統府發表的回應是不是表示台灣不再有百分之百的言論自由呢"},{"start":16131.833,"end":16156.05,"text":"請部長很謝謝委員問這個問題因為剛剛講到75位學者發起這個他們質疑這個言論自由有被損害這點我本身非常尊重因為在言論自由的環境中每一個人他都可以表達什麼是言論自由但是我們在言論自由的環境中大家享有言論自由之後他也可能會被"},{"start":16157.284,"end":16185.853,"text":"一個言論不自由的國家中國一個獨裁政權他的滲透就像說誰不希望和平呢有哪一個父母親會希望台灣打戰呢你說你要戰爭還是要和平當然是和平啊可是和平不可以是一個藉口說我們為了和平所以兩岸交流言論自由最後投降也可以啊只要只要和平啊和平是最高指標可是和平如果是在一個投降的"},{"start":16187.279,"end":16213.911,"text":"條件下他就不是和平啊部長說完了說完了我非常遺憾這個對於我認識以前的文化工作人的小野我覺得你的風骨跟你現在的言論是完全不一樣的最後因為時間的關係我要引用鄭南榮先生的一句話提醒部長您也提醒民進黨的朋友們這句話就是"},{"start":16215.091,"end":16224.117,"text":"槍口之下我們依然要爭取百分之一百的言論自由提醒您 謝謝謝謝委員好 謝謝 謝謝高金書美委員不然請回我們接下來請李坤澄委員謝謝主席"},{"start":16243.601,"end":16247.897,"text":"這個 部長要喝口水嗎好 那請李部長好 有請李部長"},{"start":16253.747,"end":16282.148,"text":"部長好李委員你好辛苦了這個賴總統有17項的這個國安因應的策略那其中有跟文化部有相關的我看了一下有一個是加強輔導獎勵國內影視及文創產業的二指中國借文化同傳削弱台灣的主體性那另外一個是強化輔導管理在中發展影藝的從業人員那這兩點我想請教一下部長"},{"start":16282.788,"end":16286.583,"text":"那現在的這個因應的策略跟作為是什麼"},{"start":16289.214,"end":16315.7,"text":"謝謝委員問這個問題我們有兩個方向一個就是剛剛第一個說要強大台灣自己文化的主體性包括影視跟文創產業這一點其實我們這幾年一直朝這個方向在做包括用那個國發基金的100億現在第二個100億去投下對影視方面的一些補助還有在文學 漫畫 音樂各方面"},{"start":16316.38,"end":16331.069,"text":"我們只有在這種方面讓我們的文化產業很蓬勃的話我們才能夠留住我們的所有的藝術家跟文化人那我其實在這短短的十個月我日子過得好快"},{"start":16331.949,"end":16360.168,"text":"十個月內其實我有擬定很多很多讓文化人有感覺他自己有被尊重的一些一些辦法這點我會努力的來推第二個講到更具體的就是針對中國藝人台灣藝人去中國發出那些言論過去我們完全沒有針對某一個藝人做出什麼懲罰那現在我們要加強就是對於他的言行的了解如果他在"},{"start":16360.928,"end":16384.419,"text":"中國大陸因為有一些行為他的言論是跟商業合作之外還有條件的或者是跟有一些組織合作的原來我們對這個都非常的不想去了解現在看這個情況我們想要去了解然後或者他已經取得大陸身份的我們會把這些意見提供給陸委會列在一個"},{"start":16385.579,"end":16412.639,"text":"他們本來就有一個管理辦法就是說台灣藝人到中國大陸要注意什麼那文化部會加這幾條跟他們一起討論好 那我具體來問部長好了在這個去年的十月中國的聯合力艦的演習在軍演的期間就有一些藝人轉發台灣自古就是中國的領土然後這是有蠻多藝人就跟著這個中國在軍演期間就轉發這是央視的"},{"start":16414.56,"end":16435.386,"text":"然後在今年的3月呢 中國的外交部長王毅他說 中國台灣省 把台灣列入這個中國的部分中國台灣省 我們有很多藝人呢 也轉貼了台灣閉歸的貼文那請問一下 那這個有符合這一個相關的規定那是不是要提供給陸委會來做查處咧"},{"start":16437.148,"end":16446.01,"text":"我每次聽到說台灣屬於中國的一部分這句話我其實每次都心裡覺得好難過是因為八千年前 冰河時期"},{"start":16447.874,"end":16475.316,"text":"兩邊還會相通動物植物相通八千年後的併合漸漸融化之後台灣從來沒有屬於過中國的版圖那當他們發出這樣言論的時候我其實也非常難過因為這些人都是台灣的環境中所培養出來的一些自由泥土中長大的但是他們配合央視啊配合軍演啊所以我們會去了解這些言論有沒有觸及到兩岸人民條例因為我們畢竟是一個法治的國家"},{"start":16477.737,"end":16500.051,"text":"按照你們現在的做法就是把這些藝人相關的言論把它收集完之後然後再按照兩岸人民關係條例由陸委會來做處理嗎是不是我想我們會配合他一起來了解甚至於多了解一些他言論的背後是不是有計劃的而且是有拿到錢的而且不是一個普通商業行為的而且不只是一個"},{"start":16502.193,"end":16511.349,"text":"所以我剛剛講的那些具體的例子那部長您的看法如何有沒有違反到這一個在台灣的藝人應該講的一些言論"},{"start":16516.069,"end":16539.173,"text":"因為我們兩岸人民條例裡面有一個非常具體的三十三之一條所以您剛才問我的問題 我們還是要回到法律層面去檢視那這點我們會跟陸委會就是三十三之一條嘛 還有講得很清楚不得與中共黨政軍從事任何形式的合作行為嘛所以我剛才特別是提到說軍演 提到央視 講到國防部 講到外交部嘛"},{"start":16540.185,"end":16567.696,"text":"他們這些在中國的台灣藝人是等於是配合他們的黨政軍來從事這一些複合的言論嘛所以我的意思是說既然賴總統已經有這一個因應策略下去那這些也是跟文化部有相關的那我想這個文化部這邊可能還要再更積極一點好那再請教最後一點時間部長知道說這一個前台灣八旗出版社的總編輯複查李言鶴"},{"start":16570.197,"end":16583.791,"text":"他因為所謂的煽動分裂國家罪被中共抓起來 也判了三年他煽動了分裂國家什麼罪"},{"start":16586.294,"end":16603.951,"text":"他是一個中配 他在台灣 然後他出版了一些書那這些書可能不是中共所喜歡的 可能不符合這個中國現在的這個史觀然後呢 就被 因為他要回去註銷他的這個中國身份證 那就被抓起來了那我請教一下 部長 你就知道這件事情"},{"start":16605.024,"end":16628.26,"text":"不但知道那時候沒有聲援那對於他現在 因為他是在台灣喔 他不是說在中國那如果在中國他出版什麼書 被中國抓起來了 那可能中國有法律他是在台灣耶 他是在台灣 他出版了這些書那如果說因為在台灣出版這些書 回到中國就被抓起來了那不代表說中國這個長臂管轄權就深入到台灣來了嗎"},{"start":16629.221,"end":16642.29,"text":"那以後台灣的文化人、出版人所有台灣的藝文界人士甚至包含現在有拍一些支持大罷免的藝文界人士這些導演會不會到了中國之後就被抓起來"},{"start":16644.878,"end":16664.547,"text":"我覺得你說就是最可怕的地方就是他變成是一個殘弊管理你不見得是要在中國然後他這樣的方式就是讓你一直讓你恐嚇你你不能有這個言論那明明台灣是一個言論最自由的國家可是偏偏他連這個他都要干預"},{"start":16666.044,"end":16691.662,"text":"所以複雜被抓到 這件事情大家都不敢想像他可以用這個旅遊抓他那接下來呢 接下來這樣會不會影響到說兩岸的這一個文化的交流就是 你知道台灣人 因為這樣子有可能我在台灣 我出版了什麼書我在台灣發表什麼樣的言論甚至我這次大罷免我去台灣 我去中國就可能被抓起來啦我就被舉報啦 有沒有可能"},{"start":16692.967,"end":16701.04,"text":"當然是有可能啦那文化部未來要怎麼做咧文化部會不斷的提醒這個去中國的不管是"},{"start":16702.631,"end":16723.402,"text":"除了台商之外我們跟文化有關的藝人或者是藝術家去中國的話我們會跟他講一些提醒他一些像剛才講到的這些問題我們盡量做到提醒我是希望說剛賴總統提到的這些因應的策略文化部應該是要更積極來做處理關於這個複查這部分的話很明顯他的長臂管轄權已經升到台灣了已經試圖影響"},{"start":16729.986,"end":16752.042,"text":"台灣的言論自由 出版自由了我覺得這部分要請文化部要多加關心跟注意一下是是是謝謝部長 謝謝主席謝謝好 謝謝李昆城委員部長請回接下來請林倩琦委員林倩琦 林倩琦委員不在我們請楊瓊英委員楊瓊英 楊瓊英委員不在我們請蔡義瑜委員"},{"start":16762.366,"end":16767.887,"text":"好 謝謝主席那我們是有請文化部我們李部長好 有請李部長蔡委員你好部長 我要延續 我很故意來這裡質詢我要說台灣IP的事情我記得我認為台灣有很多元素都可以做成很好的IP"},{"start":16788.012,"end":16808.717,"text":"不然感覺起來就是大家都一直在覺得說好像台灣都缺少了一些故事一些比較壯大的故事然後可以把它做一些惡創把它成功事實上部長你本身你就是一個很棒的一個作家你的作品事實上非常的多你也寫過很多的一些故事小說"},{"start":16809.577,"end":16819.923,"text":"甚至你對電影這一塊,你也是你的專業所以我想要跟部長,我就用短短的時間,我跟你們分享台灣有一個很精彩的故事呢部長你覺得要插牽這個人?蔡謙蔡謙他是台灣一個很有名的海盜他叫做威海鎮...威海鎮武王"},{"start":16835.169,"end":16843.219,"text":"叫做鎮海威武王啦 鎮海威武王啊這個威武王的我們現在的年輕人 過去的年輕人啊在那裡哭 哭啊都哭不停的 過去大人就在那裡說"},{"start":16851.748,"end":16855.554,"text":"你如果在考,我們就要叫柴犬在你抓他啦所以意思是說,這個人這裡有啦事實上他就是一個海盜在清朝嘉慶年間他就是一個很強的海盜這個海盜怎麼強的就是說,他這樣"},{"start":16870.953,"end":16895.822,"text":"整個當時整個海域打遍天下無敵手跟香港的一個叫做張寶的也是海盜他們就結盟所以那時候整個青條政府這樣吃頭痛吃頭痛所以這個青條政府就要抓錢抓錢就要由台灣來做這個基地所以它是一個海賊一個海盜的故事它都不是這樣而已"},{"start":16897.242,"end":16901.208,"text":"他就這樣,不然我現在要講這個故事的精彩啊阿柴騙誰都會這麼強,是因為有一個他太太,他太太喔,我們都叫柴騙媽"},{"start":16908.167,"end":16911.89,"text":"那他太太是怎樣?他太太之前有結婚,兩次,兩個女兒,但是他太太算是比較風流的,女兒都關不住,每天都走外面,所以有一次娶娶,說去剃頭的時候,去剃頭的時候,我看見他這個娶娶媽,他抓到那個娶娶媽的女兒說,不然這個看多少錢,我讓你,讓我來做忙,他就把娶娶媽抓走,"},{"start":16938.348,"end":16940.331,"text":"這個刷券罵有夠厲害 刷券所有的贈金都一直在他手裡贈贈到 請到派出他們的大將軍 叫做李長庚這個李長庚就是去給刷券罵 用刨刨一千塊錢"},{"start":16956.691,"end":16966.575,"text":"就用串起馬 所以串起馬真的會贏 不然在那一陣子 串起馬也是串起李長江的部隊 也是定義師在那然後蔡謙的勢力就沒落 沒落之後就出現一個叫做王德路然後他就狡肥把蔡謙的這個海盜集團 把他殲滅了"},{"start":16978.763,"end":16986.788,"text":"我現在要補充說 來喔剛才我說的都是故事所以現在這個IPA的意思就是說我們家裡有一個地方叫做太保太保就是因為王德祿絞肥有功加封為太子太保所以我們有一個地方叫做太保我們家裡有一個地方叫做五國這個五國就是創建了一個部下叫做蔡敖谷"},{"start":17007.608,"end":17020.634,"text":"他當時在山邊的時候 他就滅在當朝的牛角所以我們現在敖谷一直有人家說它就是一個海盜村再來我們在當朝三帝族好人宮我們有去拜一尊大炮那個廟宇的一個神像 他的意象就是那一尊大炮這尊大炮就是東尼闖起馬俗殊榮的大炮"},{"start":17036.778,"end":17038.741,"text":"所以你如果想要這裡過時 都台灣的過時喔所以台灣怎麼會說我們沒有很壯闊的一個歷史"},{"start":17044.594,"end":17069.644,"text":"所以我為了部長說的就是說有這麼好的歷史事實上我們文化部就是要發掘像這樣的一個故事那我們去輔導要把這些東西精彩起來精彩起來期待有很多會創造的人就去把它畫成動漫也好把它寫成故事也好這些東西出來了我們就可以讓台灣有自己的IP"},{"start":17070.484,"end":17075.888,"text":"尤其我看到現在,你看美國現在的本宮紅襪隊紅襪隊現在和One Piece,日本的海賊王他們做結盟,現在紅襪隊都用海賊王的角色然後來做他們整個隊,整個紅襪他們的一個行銷"},{"start":17093.883,"end":17101.495,"text":"人就在海裡吃所以有這些IP自然就可以把這些創作發揮到極致什麼東西都可以有集團部長我講這麼多你就短短的講我覺得說這件事我們文化部可以來做"},{"start":17108.625,"end":17128.204,"text":"剛才說的事情很讚台灣的有些地名地名的背後一個故事還有台灣的王爺的信仰剛才你說的大航海時代的海盜我現在想說用漫畫鮮畫可能最快然後再進一步可能可以文學創作拍電影電視拜拜"},{"start":17130.046,"end":17135.13,"text":"我來補充一下,有時候要說都沒辦法說得很清楚馬祖有一個天后宮,那個天后宮,馬祖人都知道,就是划拳馬關子去一個馬祖廟,划拳馬就在那裡,他知道要去廟,就叫那些新人來嫁夫廟,這樣你聽到嗎?所以划拳馬就在那裡,會有官吏,會有政經,還會有划拳打得很強的"},{"start":17159.994,"end":17178.303,"text":"阿炒雞肉叫什麼名字不知道 只知道他生的爐不知道是什麼名字 真不懂 因為我們台灣這個故事我們沒有去發掘 沒有去深挖哇 好多東西我們都不知道 太可惜了好不好 部長 我們一起來努力謝謝 會好 謝謝 好謝謝 蔡宇委員 謝謝部長請回 好 我們接下來請葉元芝委員"},{"start":17196.237,"end":17199.659,"text":"你好 請文化部長好 有請部長廖委員你好部長好 我跟你請教一下這個跟你請教一下國立台灣歷史博物館的問題因為我看到業務報告也說台灣歷史博物館要擴建嘛那台灣歷史博物館它的主要的設立的宗旨呢是文化部要辦理台灣歷史與民俗文化相關"},{"start":17226.275,"end":17250.944,"text":"文物史料的收集整理保存跟研究而且要展示跟推廣教育剛剛有提到說你們業務報告裡面也有講說現在要啟動第二期的擴建計畫114年如果能夠獲行這份核定預計119年完工開放營域要成為世界認識台灣的首要窗口所以他的目標是很宏大的是首要窗口就是說"},{"start":17251.964,"end":17270.93,"text":"除了台灣之外其他國家想要認識台灣都可以透過我們的國立台灣歷史博物館這個國立台灣歷史博物館非常重要那我就就幾個面向來跟這個部長討論第一個我想問我們在國立台灣歷史博物館的典藏裡面我們有看到"},{"start":17273.238,"end":17287.279,"text":"這個范雲他在2016年競選的文宣當時他去攻擊他的對手蔣乃馨提了三個問題說你為什麼都不回答然後這個文宣呢"},{"start":17288.52,"end":17310.009,"text":"這個當然描述上是非常的用正面的語氣啦說文宣正面質問對手國民黨江乃馨任立委是做的總統決定背後呢論述人民為何應該要投給范雲並有小野於蔣勳為其背書我有提到部長我想問一下這個為什麼歷史博物館會典藏這個東西他的考慮是什麼"},{"start":17311.311,"end":17339.906,"text":"你剛才講這一段我並不知道但是也不是因為我是文化部長之後才收藏這個我覺得也不是啦但是據我了解我是問說那現在因為我們這個東西是世界認識台灣的首要創作我想它很簡單就是台灣從戒嚴以後走入民主那個民主運動是一個蠻重要的那個過程然後范雲假如各位沒有忘記的話當年是野百合"},{"start":17340.626,"end":17360.912,"text":"的領袖他是在野百合佔領這個中正紀念堂的領袖所以他後來出來從政他的歷史後來前面被國民黨監視的歷史所以你的意思是說因為范雲特別重要啦所以就有點藏了他的文宣去質問蔣乃馨 而且是2016年他的第一次選舉那我們來看下一個"},{"start":17366.654,"end":17381.041,"text":"這個是蔡英文總統跟陳建仁副總統可能第一次出來選總統的文宣那我想請教一下因為這個文宣你們在歷史博物館裡面典藏了兩份那為什麼有的文宣你是典藏兩份"},{"start":17383.309,"end":17403.659,"text":"為什麼會典藏兩份目的是什麼這點你也不清楚我必須承認我不知道不知道那今天文化部有沒有有沒有知道的人可以來幫部長回答一下今天我們有代表來委員好我是台灣歷史博物館副館長莊佩華那我們的這些文物其實我們有因應選舉的話去進行當代的收藏"},{"start":17404.179,"end":17427.392,"text":"那就是在經過一個委員的搜審過程來確認這些文物是否入場那有些文物他可能會他的背後可能有他不同的一個脈絡所以這個部分有兩份的部分我可以再做確認然後再跟委員做一個比較完整的報告所以你也不曉得嘛但是他就是有兩份啊他就有兩份好我們進去看因為我看了蠻多的好這個是蔡英文點亮台灣總統競選宣傳期"},{"start":17429.853,"end":17450.028,"text":"有兩隻那我這個部分是想請教一下文物你們收藏之後會說要保存嘛那保存會維護嗎比如說那個棋子如果說有破損那就是讓他繼續破損還是說你們其實是有編人力資品維護人力去修復狀況是怎麼樣"},{"start":17452.401,"end":17476.6,"text":"我想用我的經驗來看它這是跟一般的文物是一樣要保存的但是我得跟委員講一下我的想法就是譬如說部長我時間有限你直接回答我問題就好因為我現在是問說因為這個東西很重要嘛它是世界認識台灣的首要窗口啊所以我們當然保存東西要好好保存我現在只是問我的問題很簡單就是說它如果有破損會不會有修復"},{"start":17478.021,"end":17497.138,"text":"當然要修復有會修復因為你簡化了蔡英文跟簡化了這個我問你一個問題像我去拜訪林義雄他是一個受害者欸這不是你在質詢我啦我的問題很簡單嘛問題只是說你會不會修復而已嘛他家裡擺了一大堆民主運動的資料全部是記卷的棋子部長部長不要岔題啦我問的是說"},{"start":17500,"end":17522.92,"text":"因為我的問題很簡單部長我到現在為止都沒有在我只是在詢問我想知道說保存我沒有說不能保存這個我現在只是問說保存這個有沒有修復機制你不要防禦心這麼強我當然小心我只是問有沒有修復機制因為這個歷史博物館是認識台灣首要窗口"},{"start":17523.661,"end":17542.151,"text":"我沒有不讓你做這個事我是問說你有沒有好好保存當然要好好保存要保存嘛 對吧那所以你們有編制多少人力在做維護的這件事情後面那位多少人留言 對啊比如說織品如果有損壞或者是有一些書面印刷有損壞或什麼你們現在的編制修復的人力是怎樣"},{"start":17542.851,"end":17570.502,"text":"跟我們報告那由於整個編制的問題那台時博目前有兩位修復師那我們就是文物進場之前會先進行整治那這部分會委外來進行委外那個專業的廠商來進行委外來進行就對了是用委外的方式那我們內部有兩位修復師兩位修復師他是修復哪一類的因為不同文物會有不同的修復技巧有一位是以紙質為主然後一位是以木質為主然後其他就委外嘛好下一頁他們也都熟"},{"start":17570.962,"end":17589.534,"text":"下一頁這個聯合報一樣這個聯合報它的頭版2012年的1月10號也是典藏兩份這個問題剛剛沒有辦法回答因為你不知道為什麼有的是典藏兩份以上但是這個聯合報的典藏有兩個問題我想要就教一下部長第一個"},{"start":17590.848,"end":17617.734,"text":"他這邊在這個文物的描述的部分特別提到主要經營人是承認中國國民黨中央常務委員的王剃無另外聯合報在1992年曾因刊登中共中央政治局常務委員的李瑞環的談話而引發退報運動那當然你們的講法一定會是說對啊他就是客觀描述啊他的確是創辦人是誰啊然後他的確這個有退報運動可是我這邊好奇的是"},{"start":17619.546,"end":17634.632,"text":"聯合報實際上他退報運動總共有三次我們來看一下不是只有那一次李瑞環的比如說1960年他們因為挺雷震堅守第四權所以曾經引發時任總統蔣中正不悅軍方發起退報運動但是聯合報仍貫徹正派辦報"},{"start":17641.048,"end":17661.102,"text":"就是說他退報其實有好幾次但是你們在文物的描述我們看上一頁文物的描述上專門把這個他1992年刊載中共中央政治局常委李瑞環談話引發退報就把它寫在那邊好像聯合報就只有這一支退報運動而且他還是因為刊載了中共的言論的關係被退報"},{"start":17662.216,"end":17686.937,"text":"我覺得是有偏頗啦這是第一個問題 等一下一起回答第二個問題是因為這個歷史博物館他可以把典藏的文物做授權嘛那現在你典藏了聯合報的的這個報紙那人家也可以來取得授權可是理論上來講聯合報的東西應該是屬於他個人的智慧財產權啊那歷史博物館為什麼會可以把別人的智慧財產權做授權的動作呢 兩個問題"},{"start":17694.194,"end":17715.707,"text":"跟委員報告就是說有關文物的部分我們會就當下那個研究員他們就會去做相關的資料的一個手整然後經過審議委員來做確認內容那如果說這個內容他因為當時候的內容如果不是很就是完整的話他只會就當下的那個事件來做處理那如果說未來我們再進行更深入的研究的時候我們會再把相關的詮釋資料來進行補助"},{"start":17717.874,"end":17731.801,"text":"你現在你是下面對聯合報做敘述啦其實你這個文物典藏你不是描述文物本身那個文物本身是2012年的1月10號的內容嘛但是你現在下面紅字我標出來的部分其實是你們對於聯合報的敘述"},{"start":17733.061,"end":17759.656,"text":"那聯合報敘述如果你要講退報運動他有好幾次退報運動那為什麼你就只講這一次咧就偏頗啊就人家也曾經有挺雷震啊 堅守第四權被退報你不講你只講說因為他有刊登過中共的某一個人的談話所以被退報 我覺得太偏頗了啊好不好 歷史博物館既然是世界認識台灣的窗口不能偏頗 這個第一個我希望你們可以調整啦"},{"start":17760.276,"end":17762.463,"text":"那這可以吧好 謝謝委員部長你認同嗎是部長"},{"start":17766.584,"end":17771.688,"text":"我不但認同還非常感謝你對聯合報這麼了解如果就歷史來講這三個時間都對我們會把它補起來而且你要知道嗎你把它補起來之後就會知道台灣的當初戒嚴是報競聯合報中國時報可以賣到一百萬份後來漸漸報競開放之後報紙變很多之後它的賣量變少因為我持續時間有時間你講故事都講太久其實我很喜歡聽有一天"},{"start":17794.884,"end":17820.422,"text":"比如說我們可以請你喝個下午茶你慢慢講給我聽但是因為我們資訊時間很有限啦我們就針對重點好不好那所以這個部分你們認同嗎不能有偏頗啦好不好第二個授權的部分為什麼可以代替聯合報去授權呢跟我們報告如果說那個出授權的原始人還是存去的話我們不會主動做這個授權我們只有做物的比如說要借展才會有授權那這個部分如果說它是涉及內容的引用的話都還是要回到原來比如說"},{"start":17821.483,"end":17839.384,"text":"所以如果有智慧財產權你們不會做授權好不好這是你講的再來還有這個是民進黨這個建黨週年紀念表總共典藏了七支你看有登錄七個登錄號為什麼這個表是特別厲害還是怎樣我是好奇啦就是典藏了七支是為什麼"},{"start":17841.363,"end":17870.744,"text":"跟委員報告好我現在沒有在質疑說你們是不是只弄民進黨的東西沒有喔我現在只是好奇說這個錶是不是厲害的地方在哪裡典藏了七支海史博它是新往近成立的一個博物館那我們有在積極地進行當代的收藏那很多其實是民間的一個捐贈那我們這邊的話其實會先就捐贈的物件先做一些初步的一個審議那這個部分我也是需要再做確認就是說也許它因為剛才有報告就是說每個文物它其實有不同的一個脈絡跟後面的一些"},{"start":17871.084,"end":17896.867,"text":"所以我必須要再確認一下說當初這個路你再確認好不好看起來乍看之下你也覺得很怪但是我不為難你啦你再去確認那一個東西好然後再來就是我覺得這個歷史播放好像對於這個選舉的東西特別有興趣連那個2000年沉水扁的礦泉水都有典藏然後還有宣傳手機架鑰匙圈旗子布條等等這些東西"},{"start":17898.845,"end":17926.011,"text":"這個選舉小物為什麼可以成為國家級典藏品因為我你到時候一起一併說明沒有沒有好先一併說明各位國民報告就是因應整個現在世界的潮流就是當代議題的一個收藏包括這些選舉或是像疫情這些等等都是會有一個初步的收藏那我們現在管內有制定一個相關的就是一個分流的制度當代典藏跟因為當初剛開始的時候制度還不完善你說剛開始的時候因為人家只要捐贈你就收是不是"},{"start":17926.291,"end":17948.832,"text":"我們還是有經過審議那當時候因為有一開始的話經過審議那會納入的文物但是我們現在我們現在就問說這個審議為什麼會這樣啊它的標準是什麼啊對就是其實我們是因應整個世紀潮流現在針對這些重要的議題其實都有當代收藏OKOK好那繼續但你剛剛講說那都很重要嘛像剛剛那個部長講說泛雲為什麼會被收藏因為他太重要了"},{"start":17949.292,"end":17965.212,"text":"那我想有參選過總統的人的東西應該也蠻重要吧可是我們去搜尋關鍵詞韓國瑜跟柯文哲就沒有任何的文物典藏他的一個旗子他的一個面子或他的一個什麼小物就通通都沒有啊所以這標準很怪啊"},{"start":17966.617,"end":17979.997,"text":"這標準很怪啊跟委員報告就是這些選舉物件主要都是來自於民間的捐贈那所以其實民間如果捐贈那我們經過收審之後所以意思是說因為韓粉跟喝粉沒有去捐贈所以沒有"},{"start":17980.987,"end":17991.712,"text":"然後只要有捐贈不管你捐贈一隻兩隻三隻四隻甚至七隻你都收我本來是有經過嚴謹的一個搜索嚴謹那為什麼要七隻你還是回答不出來了我認為應該是說有捐贈還是要做一個篩選啦好不好好那再來"},{"start":18001.65,"end":18015.259,"text":"那剛剛那個問題剛剛如果說你剛剛沒有辦法回答的麻煩寫一個針對我剛剛的問題寫個報告給我最後很快啦因為這個部長應該知道我們很關心打黃牛這件事情那本來我去年是有提案"},{"start":18015.899,"end":18031.265,"text":"因為打荒的辦公室我認為成效不彰啦他那個時候只有才拔了七十幾件變了兩千多萬只有才拔七十幾件覺得成效不彰反正要提案刪除但後來因為你們也有溝通嘛覺得會好好做這個事情所以我們也沒有那個預算沒有處理但是網路上就在帶風向"},{"start":18032.365,"end":18052.516,"text":"說好像我們去監督這個預算就是支持黃牛說什麼以後大家有買到黃牛票就大家來找我我覺得這個台灣這個網路實在是太誇張了完全沒有就事論事空間從頭到尾我們在這邊就是把關預算認為這個導黃牛辦公室沒有積極扮演好它的成效那現在最新的資料是說才發了145件那部長你自己滿意嗎"},{"start":18057.591,"end":18070.324,"text":"我說不算滿意或者不滿意因為環遊的問題大家都知道在文創法裡面我們沒有直接可以限制票的買賣我們唯一做的就是"},{"start":18071.829,"end":18085.84,"text":"在最近做了一件比較有進步的事情就是約這六都的負責大場館的這種的人來開會希望他們在辦法上鼓勵實名制那這效果非常好文化部會補助經費"},{"start":18088.286,"end":18113.922,"text":"補助那些願意用實名制來辦演唱會的團體結果效果果然環流就下降像這種就是一個我們在法律上沒有不准他用這種方式販售環流的一個法我們只能用去檢舉那你也知道檢舉的過程非常繁複檢舉到之後我們整理完叫警政單位去抓他這個過程是很繁複的"},{"start":18114.682,"end":18139.159,"text":"那對於一個文化部來講 他去管理黃牛這件事情是非常吃力的好 那個部長 這個加油啦 好不好大家都很對黃牛深惡痛絕啦而且預算給你們的 我覺得就要不是說發包出去啦 還是要盯一下啦希望他們可以積極的把黃牛的杜絕 好不好讓大家可以不要多花冤枉錢好 謝謝謝謝好 謝謝葉元之委員"},{"start":18143.783,"end":18165.477,"text":"好 部長請回我們接下來請邱志偉 邱志偉委員 邱志偉不在陳培宇委員 陳培宇委員不在我們請廖先祥 廖先祥委員不在我們請張家俊 張家俊委員不在我們請鄭天才 鄭天才委員不在我們請蘇清泉"},{"start":18170.96,"end":18196.191,"text":"蘇清泉蘇清泉委員不在我們請賴慧園賴慧園賴慧園委員不在我們請鄭振淺鄭振淺鄭振淺委員不在我們請張啟凱張啟凱張啟凱委員不在今天登記質詢均已發言完畢另有林倩琦委員徐新穎委員陳培育委員提出書面質詢關於今天會議如坐如下決定"},{"start":18197.592,"end":18214.724,"text":"報告及詢答完畢委員所提書面質詢及相關資料列入紀錄並刊登公報關於委員質詢要求提供相關資料及未及答覆部分請相關機關盡速以書面答覆報告委員會今天議程處理完畢現在散會謝謝各位"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}