{"error":false,"id":["165498"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":165498,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165498","日期":"2025-11-17","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-4-26-11","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":4,"會次":11,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[26],"委員會代碼:str":["社會福利及衛生環境委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2025-11-17T09:44:26+08:00","結束時間":"2025-11-17T09:54:58+08:00","影片長度":"00:10:32","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/ff1e125e807f56ab4f435b7dbe1dd15cbfb6dfa65ed0fc1d5fbc24375b25c47474a0a456827cbec75ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳昭姿","委員發言時間":"09:44:26 - 09:54:58","會議時間":"2025-11-17T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查\n(一)委員黃健豪等16人、委員陳超明等16人、委員蘇清泉等17人、委員呂玉玲等16人及委員柯志恩等16人擬具「勞工保險條例第六十三條條文修正草案」案。\n(二)委員陳瑩等19人擬具「勞工保險條例第五十八條條文修正草案」案。\n(三)委員許宇甄等19人、委員林國成等32人、委員王育敏等20人、委員蔡其昌等19人、委員羅廷瑋等16人、委員蔡易餘等18人、委員王美惠等17人、委員徐欣瑩等22人、委員翁曉玲等19人、委員楊曜等25人及委員王鴻薇等22人擬具「勞工保險條例第六十六條及第六十九條條文修正草案」案。\n(四)委員邱鎮軍等19人擬具「勞工保險條例第三十一條條文修正草案」案。\n(五)委員李昆澤等25人及委員賴瑞隆等17人擬具「勞工保險條例第六十九條條文修正草案」案。\n(六)委員廖先翔等18人擬具「勞工保險條例第十九條條文修正草案」案。\n(七)委員葉元之等21人、委員何欣純等17人及委員陳超明等16人擬具「勞工保險條例第五十八條條文修正草案」案。\n(八)委員陳秀寳等21人擬具「勞工保險條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n(九)委員王鴻薇等17人擬具「勞工保險條例第七十四條之二條文修正草案」案。\n(十)委員林倩綺等32人及委員傅崐萁等19人擬具「勞工保險條例第五十九條條文修正草案」案。\n(十一)委員陳瑩等19人擬具「勞工保險條例第六條條文修正草案」案。\n(十二)委員李昆澤等19人擬具「勞工保險條例第二十九條條文修正草案」案。\n\n二、審查\n(一)委員陳玉珍等18人擬具「就業服務法第二十四條及第二十七條條文修正草案」案。\n(二)委員涂權吉等17人擬具「就業服務法第二十四條條文修正草案」案。\n(三)委員許宇甄等18人擬具「就業服務法第二十四條條文修正草案」案。\n(四)委員翁曉玲等22人擬具「就業服務法第二十四條條文修正草案」案。\n(五)委員蘇清泉等18人擬具「就業服務法第二十四條條文修正草案」案。\n(六)委員廖偉翔等16人擬具「就業服務法第二十四條條文修正草案」案。\n(七)委員洪孟楷等16人擬具「就業服務法第二十四條條文修正草案」案。\n(八)台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「就業服務法第二十四條條文修正草案」案。\n(九)委員柯志恩等18人擬具「就業服務法第二十四條條文修正草案」案。\n(十)委員王育敏等17人擬具「就業服務法第二十四條、第二十七條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。\n(十一)委員楊瓊瓔等27人擬具「就業服務法第二十四條條文修正草案」案。\n(十二)委員郭國文等19人擬具「就業服務法第二十四條及第二十六條之一條文修正草案」案。\n【綜合詢答，僅詢答】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3.06846875,"end":4.6040937500000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4.992218750000001,"end":5.75159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13.429718750000003,"end":14.037218750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13.817843750000002,"end":24.07784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":24.297218750000003,"end":75.17534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":75.31034375,"end":89.48534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":91.10534375,"end":93.87284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":94.98659375000001,"end":111.06846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":111.22034375000001,"end":115.91159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":113.61659375,"end":114.30846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":115.33784375,"end":118.15596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":117.83534375,"end":129.71534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":119.28659375000001,"end":120.07971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":129.78284375,"end":130.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":130.44096875,"end":150.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":151.28159375,"end":158.38596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":159.36471875,"end":160.25909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":159.98909375000002,"end":162.33471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":161.52471875,"end":163.75221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":163.43159375000002,"end":175.78409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":174.36659375000002,"end":191.42721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":191.42721875,"end":197.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":192.79409375,"end":193.38471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":197.33346875,"end":197.41784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":197.43471875,"end":197.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":197.48534375,"end":224.43471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":224.77221875,"end":272.17409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":273.60846875000004,"end":275.12721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":275.85284375000003,"end":276.61221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":276.02159375,"end":278.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":279.14346875,"end":281.01659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":281.32034375,"end":284.23971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":282.43409375000005,"end":282.85596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":284.37471875,"end":300.23721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":285.35346875,"end":286.36596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":300.92909375,"end":302.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":302.93721875,"end":303.98346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":303.86534375,"end":304.72596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":304.82721875000004,"end":366.13409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":366.50534375,"end":367.58534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":367.85534375000003,"end":375.16221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":375.07784375,"end":376.73159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":375.22971875,"end":375.65159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":377.37284375,"end":377.94659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":377.42346875000004,"end":380.83221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":379.19534375,"end":383.19471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":381.91221875,"end":389.13471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":388.02096875,"end":396.71159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":395.37846875,"end":398.17971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":398.43284375,"end":401.74034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":401.16659375,"end":403.95096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":404.67659375000005,"end":405.01409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":404.84534375000004,"end":405.25034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":405.79034375000003,"end":424.47096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":425.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部長早 部長勞保改革大概是政府無法迴避的責任那我們都清楚改革的方向大概就是一個多角少嶺這政府撥補三管齊下那我們今天排審的這個勞保條例就是要將政府撥補還有最終責任"},{"start":29.003,"end":43.779,"text":"这个责任的入法那三党的立委都有共识都有提案那刚刚您国情委员在做提案说明的时候也讲到当年您也参加联署了所以这个法案是三党大家都有共识在这一届的国会非常的难得"},{"start":44.46,"end":61.918,"text":"那雖然行政院一直沒有版本出來但部長您在這裡也有講過說如果您保持開放態度如果立法院通過了這樣的法案你會就是依法履行但我必須要說今天的修法是勞保改革中其實是比較容易的"},{"start":62.518,"end":88.959,"text":"因為勞保要永續不能只是靠撥補還需要這個開源節流那開源就是多角那節流就是這個少領啊但部長您自己講過說沒有要砍幾戶的計畫也就是說節流的部分您是把它保留了就是排除在改革的方案之外那我就請教部長那開源的部分勞動部有規劃要提高保費和投保薪資上限嗎"},{"start":91.521,"end":114.472,"text":"跟文說明吼那其實對於勞保的財務的問題當然從政府的角度我們一直非常非常的關注這也是為什麼這幾年下來其實行政院不斷的願意從這個這個整體的公務預算的水庫裡面那來做這個撥補的動作"},{"start":116.713,"end":132.116,"text":"留在波普這個階段第二個是其實我們在我們在基金的投資上面我想這幾年的效益也是非常好的那這也都為我們整體基金的水位提供很重要的活水所以謝謝你我了解"},{"start":133.618,"end":157.699,"text":"這個勞保改革不是說一個部會可以撐得起來因為大家都講提到數字了嘛 攸關這個千萬勞工的生活保障的改革那其實是要請總統勇於承擔的 為什麼呢因為藍綠白三位總統候選人他們在競選的時候都提出了要做勞保改革的國事論壇喔那當選後應該要做的 那我想請問部長賴總統有要召開這個勞保改革的國事會議嗎"},{"start":159.42,"end":174.727,"text":"你曉得嗎我想其實對於他有要召開這個會議我想的確現在對於整體勞保的財務上面的一些社會的討論我們都持續在收集所以剛剛在講到我應該講到說可能是要多繳或者是少領但這都會比較多"},{"start":178.43,"end":190.879,"text":"那總統上任到今天他有向勞動部提起說要召開相關的這個國事會議嗎因為這個在競選的時候三黨的候選人都總統的候選人都提出來了那他要沒有要這樣做"},{"start":191.459,"end":212.287,"text":"我們目前就是持續我們就是目前在持續在收集各界對勞保的意見就是說我還是要請您提醒總統任期過了一半一年半總統要趕快趕緊召開這個勞改國序會議因為否則勞保基金之前是2028年破產那今天有一些數字這也不清反正就是近年嘛什麼2031這個會破產那這個對"},{"start":217.609,"end":237.074,"text":"賴總統想要這個尋求連任難道也不是一個危機嗎部長我要請教你我們修法讓80歲的長者面80量表就可以聘請外籍看護那勞動部當時說我們80歲以上的人口有91萬其中健康人口有53萬假設只有三成的健康者要提出申請也會產生16萬名的這個看護家庭看護的需求"},{"start":240.495,"end":254.723,"text":"那加上每年自然增加的一萬所以當時您估算的是有十幾萬可能是七萬左右的這個缺口那現在賴總統啊或當時那個部長您估的跟實際上差很大您估了一二十萬當時講的好像天天要崩落"},{"start":256.264,"end":280.735,"text":"結果到現在好像8000多個申請你還才核准兩三千個那我要講的是賴總統現在就給你功課了他要開放12歲以下一孩家庭申請外籍包容請問部長我國12歲以下一孩家庭全國大概有幾戶目前可能數據在補我們數據在補 對所以總統講的你都沒有去算"},{"start":281.723,"end":302.202,"text":"但我們現在在評估中 可是目前那大概幾成 他先算母數 我手邊大概也有啦請問勞動部估計大概有幾成就像你當時這樣估算80歲以上長者那你覺得符合這個一孩家庭的這樣的家庭家戶你認為有幾成的會申請會產生多少缺口呢"},{"start":303.107,"end":318.213,"text":"現在就是在評估中還在算 總統講話你都這樣放的 他回答很快來 部長 家庭康護工有22萬人家庭幫庸只有2000人 是100倍之差喔如果人數比較多的康護會缺工"},{"start":319.273,"end":339.828,"text":"那稀少的邦庸不是更嚴重嗎這是更嚴重 但這就是賴總統的政策 他公開講了所以本席有個建議 等一下還是要請你補數字你不如先從真正有需要的家庭開放 例如遲緩兒的家庭我國的遲緩兒通報數字不斷的上升每年大概有4萬人"},{"start":341.849,"end":365.604,"text":"那因為這些家庭的爸爸媽媽都需要多陪伴他帶他去找的他需要有人來讓他放手讓他去協助他的這個家務勞動那如果是以家庭為單位4萬人應該會比4萬還少所以如果總統真的要開放12歲一孩的家庭能夠申請外籍邦傭的話是否從這些類似這個吃緩兒家庭開始 您贊同嗎"},{"start":366.505,"end":388.61,"text":"跟委員說明其實行政院也有指示那可能針對多元的家庭的狀況都希望可以納入評估有數字了嗎現在就在評估中但是我剛才說按照行政院的指示多元家庭的需求也應該放進來"},{"start":389.67,"end":403.801,"text":"我都沒有問過你們沒有數字在手上就承諾啦12歲一孩的家庭要不是這樣子的我們現在是在我們現在是在整體的評估之中但是你要接手啊"},{"start":405.862,"end":423.83,"text":"原來你們不知道我有數字我也先保留現在法律有規定部長這個職缺薪資沒有達4萬的時候不可以徵才的時候不可以寫免疫薪水不可以寫免疫但這幾年來整體薪水有成長所以去年勞動部有說今天要修法把這個4萬改成5萬"},{"start":425.251,"end":439.579,"text":"當然這有助於企業的競爭力跟這個爭取人才嘛但今年都快過了你有提出修法嗎還沒有吧還沒有提出來嘛跟委員說明我們現在一直持續在研議就是要把原本的4萬拉高到5萬或者是"},{"start":440.64,"end":457.423,"text":"或者是用一個最低工資的倍數啦因為最低工資也一直在提高所以也有一些建議是說可以提高變成是一個最低工資的固定某個倍數那會隨著最低工資的調漲那這個薪資透明化的這個"},{"start":458.924,"end":474.156,"text":"這個金額也可以提高因為有承諾說要提高五萬那你自己要用什麼方法能夠符合實際的我們現在當然在做這些法案的研議啊那我想我們也希望盡快在一段時間研議我們會趕快提出來媒體的報告報道說薪資揭露的規定上路以來有受理440件的檢舉喔只開罰了55件開罰率很低"},{"start":479.46,"end":502.509,"text":"所以很多勞工都說這個中原歧視上面寫免疫結果面試時開的薪水卻低於4萬請問部長這個要如何舉證你要處理如何處理讓企業真的落實你既然有法啦我想如果企業在4萬如果目前企業在4萬以下寫免疫的話這當然就是違反了薪資透明化的這個做法那這個相關的市政其實來做檢舉應該就是會被開罰的為什麼440件檢舉只有55件開罰呢"},{"start":509.263,"end":528.253,"text":"我們其實需要的是要提出具體的事證那目前我們的數字上面看起來你又煩那你怎麼提出事證是面試的時候要帶錄音機嗎不是面試帶錄音機可能是他相關的這個徵才的文件廣告或者是相關的欄位其實應該都會看到比方說他是怎麼樣來寫的"},{"start":530.677,"end":559.44,"text":"好部長我今天覺得有件事還是嚴重賴總統公開說他要開放全國12歲以下一孩家庭有一個孩子12歲以下就要開放這個外籍幫傭但是他不知道數字ok的日理萬機但是我沒有想到部長你接下來你有聽到你現在還沒有我們一直密切在評估之中你有數字了你剛剛說因為我手邊現在沒有數字那你的部署都沒有數字嗎現在我們手邊沒有因為我們是在評估中對"},{"start":561.588,"end":573.657,"text":"現在我們在評估中 現在官方的數字是沒有啦但是各種研究 很多報告資料 部長因為很多研究有去做 學術研究200萬戶啦 200萬戶啊 那你怎麼接受"},{"start":577.318,"end":594.848,"text":"但也並不是兩百萬戶都有這個需求確實有一些家庭有表達他有這樣的需求但也並不是所有的家庭都有這樣的需求我現在是三個月巴士量表是三個月的時間其實現在有一萬了"},{"start":607.563,"end":628.93,"text":"三個月多出一萬如果按照這個數字的話一年是會有增加四萬那現在又多一個問題嘛就是說這個估算對一年可能會增加四萬四萬都確實比過去的這個增加的數字來的多啊那請你再估算一下好好再評估總統發出對全國人民發出的承諾謝謝部長謝謝主席謝謝陳昭之委員發言"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}