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我們麻煩請工程會 中油還有經濟部麻煩請工程會 中油還有經濟部"},{"start":21.851,"end":36.102,"text":"先請教工程會我看一下上週的預告修正的政府採購法那我看到的是要刪除三加比較限制的條款那目的是為了提升效率還有鬆綁基層採購的壓力是不是這樣"},{"start":38.884,"end":58.013,"text":"報告委員原則上是往這個方向但是我們現在看到的就是因為民進黨長期執政之下其實有一個東西已經被台灣大多數人所公認就是民進黨執政之下其實圖利瓜分這個國家的財產變成是一個日常"},{"start":59.173,"end":80.463,"text":"那連今天經濟部的報告都說要會全程依法公開 程序會嚴謹但是國營採購的必然還是層出不窮就像今天那個中油的董事長說啦從對黃國昌的回應還有對羅志強的回應你一直講一句話說你不認同他們的指控但是我今天要跟你講不要說剛剛那兩位立委的說法啦"},{"start":81.503,"end":110.019,"text":"調查局跟廉政署的報告都已經講得很清楚了他有提到說近五年來移送以中油最多台電次之所以剛剛那兩位委員的質疑是錯的嗎你說你不認同 那你不認同就不認同嘛但是今天調查局還有廉政署的報告已經認證了貴公司就是弊案最多 遭移送對象最多的單位還是你要質疑他們兩位 還是你要告那兩個單位"},{"start":111.206,"end":124.802,"text":"不是 報告委員我剛剛所說的就是說這個貪腐它不是結構性都是個案那中油公司的話案件是比較多不是結構性的是個案那這個就不是不是弊案嗎"},{"start":126.468,"end":152.39,"text":"當然是個案啊那個案多了因為貴公司最多嘛我國的國營企業這麼多公部門這麼多但是貴公司目前是調查局的報告說得很清楚移送對象是中油最多對那這個你承認嗎這個我承認因為這是統計的結果好 我想既然有調查局的認證那我們也就不用再多爭論了啦所以我覺得今天我不是質疑單一個案我覺得"},{"start":153.351,"end":173.288,"text":"我們今天看到國營事業有很多的問題我先提出幾個問題第一個 預算支出可以無限的暴漲第二個 工地安全也被漠視第三個 肥貓酬庸 它是無限的肥油然後工程採購無限的黑箱所以我今天看到這四個無限"},{"start":174.537,"end":197.659,"text":"一個是支出無限暴漲 工地安全無限的漠視肥貓酬庸可以無限的肥油工程採購可以無限的黑箱我今天看到的狀況是這樣那也不用跟我們說沒有因為這幾年確實國營事業讓大家質疑很多點然後包括今天我又看到一個新的現在不是三接有問題一二接現在也有事情要爆出來"},{"start":198.32,"end":227.522,"text":"那如果照這樣講原來綠能政策然後它所引起的必須要大量的燒天然氣後面原來有這些弊案一階 二階 三階如果都有弊案的話那到底我國的能源轉型是轉辛酸的嗎是轉到最後光電 綠電 風電一堆弊案現在連因為要搞綠電所引起的天然氣接收站也弊案連連那我就很懷疑說我們的政府他到底帶給我們人民是什麼"},{"start":228.323,"end":241.319,"text":"他當初告訴我說為了要搞綠能要留下最好的台灣給下一代結果現在看到是弊案連連山野光電板 海野光電板水庫野光電板 到處光電板然後"},{"start":242.369,"end":265.775,"text":"然後不知道在做什麼然後一堆弊案在裡面這怎麼對得起長期支持政府的這些選民所以我剛剛所說的我們今天看到很曾經穩定國家民生而且會賺錢的這些公司現在併入高峰的四大通病就我剛剛講的第一個預算的失控人民的納稅錢被當提款機"},{"start":267.048,"end":288.431,"text":"搞了一大堆追加預算一些有的沒有的搞出來第二個公安的漠視然後最近也有有幾個案子有一些人命待會我會講第三個從酬庸就是一直塞人進去包括吳英寧等等的這些案子然後再來還有一個圖利舞弊從工程到招考有一大堆的問題包括之前的一些"},{"start":289.452,"end":308.247,"text":"招考的時候的電子舞弊的弊案所以我就不懂說國營世界怎麼會淪落到今天高層搞酬庸 低層搞電子舞弊來招生這不知道在搞什麼好 那我請問一下經濟部門中油預算的失控啦 我想請問兩位中油的中油的這個"},{"start":313.251,"end":320.218,"text":"三階的工程款它是來自於與政府的增值那我請問一下這是不是政府這是人民的納稅錢或人民的資產請問是不是"},{"start":322.056,"end":350.295,"text":"當然從廣泛來講 最終工程完工以後當然就是公司的資產 同時也是國家的資產他就是全民的資產 沒錯嘛 對不對我跟你講 我看到了就是2022年 中油前執行長那個叫什麼 徐翰他被查出收賄1687萬其實這還蠻離譜 被封為最貪的公務員當時還起訴了蠻多人請問一下貴公司有沒有做什麼樣的改善"},{"start":352.161,"end":371.17,"text":"有 在當時Deutsch做了一個檢討我們要求所有的主管同仁都應該以此為戒那個不叫做改善 我跟你講當時你們還發了一個新聞稿說法律是道德最低標準然後國營企業的操守形象都不容打折"},{"start":372.011,"end":388.167,"text":"要求大家用更高調的標準來處理這個承辦的業務但是這沒有用啊搞到最後還是口號至上啊變成是口號的巨人 但是實際上的侏儒啊我看到的狀況是這樣嘛那公安的問題 終於你們公安的問題也是我剛剛提到了"},{"start":389.568,"end":417.914,"text":"2019年12月台北港的城鄉吊掛三死四傷然後呢今年7月那個桃園三街還有一個作業員溺斃啦其實這個都是嚴重的公安事情嘛那我覺得用人的問題非專業卡在重要的位置以及這些高層的貪腐其實跟公安絕對有一敵兩面的事情啦不是沒有關係所以我希望你們兩個月內交一個公安缺失還有改善的報告給市長法治委員會好不好"},{"start":418.435,"end":423.471,"text":"還要附上一些相關的資料 這個請你務必做到那我想請問一下經濟部 經濟部"},{"start":426.884,"end":449.286,"text":"我想除了中油之外台肥也是很多弊案包括前董事長康信宏任內的南港C2開發案讓公司損失幾億然後還有康信宏跟總經理黃耀新他們的福報差旅費還有台肥到大陸地區投資失敗的這些例子我想台肥也是一堆問題"},{"start":450.948,"end":463.101,"text":"台研也是啊綠能的成取益的問題對不對然後還有之前吳亦寧的人事案的議題所以我覺得奇怪大家把國民世界當作自己的金庫嗎怎麼會搞成今天這樣那"},{"start":466.75,"end":488.658,"text":"國營事業現在變酬庸的一個位置然後內控都失能也都掏空才會有這麼多弊案所以我想麻煩你們一個月內能夠提一個國營事業的董作總經理人事還有問責績效制度的改善方式不要每一次事件爆發都換個人而已好不好我們麻煩法務部長還有調查局局長"},{"start":493.852,"end":513.312,"text":"部長 我想請問一下之前國營事業 中油 中鋼 台電這個電子招考舞弊的問題你們後來有集合去查辦嗎這邊有查辦 這個是廉政署藍調組有來查辦那也麻煩廉政署這部分你們有沒有查辦"},{"start":520.317,"end":528.269,"text":"報告委員 這個部分都已經輸了好 我跟你們講因為我剛剛所說的我們現在國民世界變什麼高層搞酬庸"},{"start":529.509,"end":557.747,"text":"對不對 綠油油跟選戰出力者高層搞酬庸 低層電子舞弊那難怪經濟上面也出問題公安也出問題嘛 績效也出問題 弊案一大堆這都可以理解啊 你從高層到低層都出了問題所以這個要麻煩你們能夠仔細的把它查清楚好不好那如果目前還有一些相關的相關的這種團體還在搞的話也要請你們積極的去做部長這部分有沒有辦法督促一下"},{"start":559.229,"end":579.517,"text":"這部分這是一個預防的一個作為因為已經有電子有一些的舞弊那些也都依法偵辦的偵辦的好像應該是有兩波那後來這部分有督請國營事業這部分在那個招考新員工的時候要必須要落實絕對要有防弊的一個作為"},{"start":580.057,"end":597.034,"text":"那這邊如果說委員有需要的話我們請您證書來提供對 你們還是要資料給我因為我跟部長報告一下喔就我跟部長已經往來好幾次了那我只希望一個點我們發現問題麻煩你們要提出解決之道而且那解決之道要實際能做的而不是說"},{"start":597.634,"end":618.791,"text":"只是虛隱故事我們不會看不懂你是不是虛隱故事我跟你講而且不要說我每次跟你討論制度你就說這個是個案問題然後我跟你問個案然後你又說偵查不公開不然就說這個個案不予評論搞到最後都不用講了問制度也不用講問個案也不用講所以不能這樣子麻煩你們對於電子舞弊這個事情"},{"start":619.471,"end":641.537,"text":"能夠把你們後續的有沒有一些宣導或偵查的作為改善能夠怎麼加強偵查這塊能夠給我們一份報告好不好最後我想我自己個人我總共辦了11年的數灘我覺得我還是要提一個其實國營事業或政府機關會出事大概就是不拖國營機關採購會出事就那三樣"},{"start":644.479,"end":655.379,"text":"投標前設建再劃把投標中執行中灌水之後沒有人負責大概就是主要這三個"},{"start":657.092,"end":683.566,"text":"價格常常都是先設建再化因為很多國營世界的採購不是靠市場競爭是靠關係所以先有想花的錢再用規格跟房價去把金額護航起來我想各位辦過數攤的現場的有連政署有之前的警察官有部長你們都知道我在講什麼那第二個招標看起來乾淨但是後面在灌水對不對你後面在變更設計追加預算展演供期驗收鬆綁然後呢"},{"start":684.306,"end":698.639,"text":"如果說前面搞不定後面就去壓那些分包的那些廠商壓那些安全的維護所以到最後出事情發生公安的都是工人但是品質不佳受害的是全民所以我在這邊提出一個要求就是"},{"start":699.66,"end":723.366,"text":"如果將來有重大門檻變更的話如果差價譬如說大於15%那是不是要啟動二次審查這個部分麻煩經濟部也能夠思考一下要不要再啟動二次審查如果價額你後面追加或灌水有時候我們還聽到三四成以上那是不是只要超過15%我們為了看守人民的荷包麻煩做二次的審查這跟政黨無關 這為國家好"},{"start":725.367,"end":750.659,"text":"那第三個就是從我剛剛講的招考的舞弊到酬庸的那個這肥貓文化我想這幾個點是我覺得我自己在辦以前辦這種案子之後我心裡的感覺這幾個點一定要把它解決好所以那個也請廉政署針對這個國營事業的接避受理調查保護救濟資訊公開SOP等等的你在一個月內能夠給我一個"},{"start":751.819,"end":776.874,"text":"國營事業 接避保護執行方案的書面然後而且要發佈一個就是公營事業跟這些它的一個通用範本讓大家有跡可循否則我跟你講這些國營事業這些寄生蟲將來就是跟蟑螂一樣一直冒出來而且永遠打不完但是我覺得我們國人要用多少條命多少億元下去補這個洞我覺得這都不應該好不好"},{"start":777.614,"end":782.101,"text":"那再麻煩各位要能夠積極的處理這件事情好 謝謝各位"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}