{"error":false,"id":["165526"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":165526,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165526","日期":"2025-11-17","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-4-26-11","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":4,"會次":11,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[26],"委員會代碼:str":["社會福利及衛生環境委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2025-11-17T13:15:49+08:00","結束時間":"2025-11-17T13:29:28+08:00","影片長度":"00:13:39","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/ff1e125e807f56abebeb5a92a57ab58ebfb6dfa65ed0fc1d3a9647aa96f21cfca1e607ac3a0220a05ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"涂權吉","委員發言時間":"13:15:49 - 13:29:28","會議時間":"2025-11-17T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查\n(一)委員黃健豪等16人、委員陳超明等16人、委員蘇清泉等17人、委員呂玉玲等16人及委員柯志恩等16人擬具「勞工保險條例第六十三條條文修正草案」案。\n(二)委員陳瑩等19人擬具「勞工保險條例第五十八條條文修正草案」案。\n(三)委員許宇甄等19人、委員林國成等32人、委員王育敏等20人、委員蔡其昌等19人、委員羅廷瑋等16人、委員蔡易餘等18人、委員王美惠等17人、委員徐欣瑩等22人、委員翁曉玲等19人、委員楊曜等25人及委員王鴻薇等22人擬具「勞工保險條例第六十六條及第六十九條條文修正草案」案。\n(四)委員邱鎮軍等19人擬具「勞工保險條例第三十一條條文修正草案」案。\n(五)委員李昆澤等25人及委員賴瑞隆等17人擬具「勞工保險條例第六十九條條文修正草案」案。\n(六)委員廖先翔等18人擬具「勞工保險條例第十九條條文修正草案」案。\n(七)委員葉元之等21人、委員何欣純等17人及委員陳超明等16人擬具「勞工保險條例第五十八條條文修正草案」案。\n(八)委員陳秀寳等21人擬具「勞工保險條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n(九)委員王鴻薇等17人擬具「勞工保險條例第七十四條之二條文修正草案」案。\n(十)委員林倩綺等32人及委員傅崐萁等19人擬具「勞工保險條例第五十九條條文修正草案」案。\n(十一)委員陳瑩等19人擬具「勞工保險條例第六條條文修正草案」案。\n(十二)委員李昆澤等19人擬具「勞工保險條例第二十九條條文修正草案」案。\n\n二、審查\n(一)委員陳玉珍等18人擬具「就業服務法第二十四條及第二十七條條文修正草案」案。\n(二)委員涂權吉等17人擬具「就業服務法第二十四條條文修正草案」案。\n(三)委員許宇甄等18人擬具「就業服務法第二十四條條文修正草案」案。\n(四)委員翁曉玲等22人擬具「就業服務法第二十四條條文修正草案」案。\n(五)委員蘇清泉等18人擬具「就業服務法第二十四條條文修正草案」案。\n(六)委員廖偉翔等16人擬具「就業服務法第二十四條條文修正草案」案。\n(七)委員洪孟楷等16人擬具「就業服務法第二十四條條文修正草案」案。\n(八)台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「就業服務法第二十四條條文修正草案」案。\n(九)委員柯志恩等18人擬具「就業服務法第二十四條條文修正草案」案。\n(十)委員王育敏等17人擬具「就業服務法第二十四條、第二十七條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。\n(十一)委員楊瓊瓔等27人擬具「就業服務法第二十四條條文修正草案」案。\n(十二)委員郭國文等19人擬具「就業服務法第二十四條及第二十六條之一條文修正草案」案。\n【綜合詢答，僅詢答】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7.388468750000001,"end":10.814093750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10.274093750000002,"end":10.425968750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11.438468750000002,"end":13.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13.73346875,"end":17.93534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":18.82971875,"end":28.144718750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":28.60034375,"end":29.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":29.089718750000003,"end":30.945968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":31.11471875,"end":33.24096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":33.56159375,"end":45.69471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":45.88034375,"end":67.12596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":67.78409375000001,"end":69.43784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":69.70784375000001,"end":75.59721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":75.76596875,"end":76.72784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":77.26784375000001,"end":78.12846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":78.48284375,"end":86.54909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":86.98784375000001,"end":92.13471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":92.42159375,"end":92.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":93.31596875000001,"end":103.62659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":103.86284375000001,"end":106.76534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":107.77784375,"end":120.94034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":122.15534375000001,"end":123.03284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":123.53909375,"end":136.56659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":136.80284375000002,"end":139.35096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":139.77284375000002,"end":140.58284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":140.98784375,"end":154.08284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":154.36971875,"end":155.28096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":155.58471875,"end":157.08659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":157.74471875,"end":164.56221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":165.74346875,"end":166.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":166.72221875000002,"end":168.96659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":169.10159375,"end":169.62471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":169.65846875,"end":169.81034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":170.08034375,"end":193.94159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":194.38034375,"end":221.65034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":222.02159375000002,"end":224.50221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":224.53596875000002,"end":226.94909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":227.10096875000002,"end":228.02909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":228.26534375000003,"end":232.14659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":231.91034375,"end":233.58096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":233.58096875,"end":234.86346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":234.20534375000003,"end":235.70721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":235.70721875,"end":246.16971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":245.93346875,"end":272.51159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":273.03471875,"end":274.92471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":275.78534375000004,"end":282.04596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":282.18096875000003,"end":286.04534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":284.84721875,"end":285.40409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":286.04534375000003,"end":322.19159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":291.98534375,"end":293.28471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":322.42784375,"end":324.33471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":324.53721875,"end":325.80284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":325.90409375,"end":332.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":331.82721875000004,"end":342.05346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":342.55971875,"end":363.97409375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謝謝主席 請我們洪部長還有我們調評師黃市長有請洪部長對 很好以及黃市長"},{"start":18.871,"end":37.805,"text":"好 部長那在今年7月22號我們立法院有三讀通過公務人員任用法第36條之一那其中有附帶決議全序部於三個月內三修公務人員留職挺薪辦法放寬公務人員申請"},{"start":38.706,"end":66.902,"text":"育嬰升價的留職挺薪試遊讓公部門提供更友善的育嬰環境那當然這些部分我看你看考試院全序部動作也很快在8月26號他就預告公務人員留職挺薪辦法第5條第6條第9條的修正草案那在10月9號考試院院會通過修正公務人員留職挺薪辦法然後請我們行政院同意"},{"start":68.322,"end":91.948,"text":"後發布實施那這個辦法目前據我們了解已經由行政院人事行政總署報到行政院近日就可以就會公告那我們今天針對工人員留職停薪辦法修正那他是因為因應我們目前社會少子化少子女化及高齡化的社會趨勢營造友善的職場"},{"start":93.388,"end":120.184,"text":"那請問一下部長那針對公務人員這部分他們已經開始在做那針對我們受僱勞工的育嬰留職停薪這部分我們勞動部有沒有準備有沒有版本跟文說明其實因為在這個薪工法裡面那育嬰留停其實一個很重要概念是因為這個雙親他其實有撫養權有撫養權"},{"start":123.567,"end":132.894,"text":"那是因为这个抚养权的这个义务那所以他会有这个育婴流亭推导出这个一个育婴流亭的概念这样子"},{"start":133.715,"end":156.03,"text":"那當然對於阿公阿嬤那帶小孩育孫的部分那這當然這個涉及的層面就更大那也包括怎麼去做這些撫養權的認定所以的確我們自己在思考是說如果今天確實假設有案例他的撫養權是有判給阿公阿嬤判給這個"},{"start":157.831,"end":187.109,"text":"爷爷奶奶的话是不是从这个角度来去思考这件事情而不是所有的这个阿公阿嬷都能够有所谓的育孙好所以部长你也知道今年一月就有这个新闻报道那有一个实际照顾孙子女的老公他本身也有监护权可是后来他申请育婴留职停薪津贴的时候被劳保局驳回所以我们今天提出就是凸显"},{"start":187.625,"end":203.715,"text":"我們受雇勞工照顧孫子女其實是沒有得到國家政策的支持那當然我們這個案子那個本黨的邱若豪委員跟本席已經提出了性別平等工作法的修正草案"},{"start":204.555,"end":232.669,"text":"修正育有孫子女得申請育嬰留職停薪育嬰留職停薪的部分那當然本席現在也進一步針對就業保險法來修正草案在孫子女三歲前得申請育嬰留職停薪的津貼那剛剛部長有提到你說針對那個阿公阿嬤有實際照顧就像我剛剛講的不是 是他有撫養權"},{"start":233.709,"end":251.89,"text":"对他有抚养权是法院判的抚养权对那刚刚我讲那个我们实际的状况他已经法院有监护权可是他去申请这育婴留职津贴可是老保局是驳回的对那因为这还涉及到修法因为老保局驳回的原因是因为现在的法规就是这样了"},{"start":252.631,"end":272.128,"text":"那當然如果要往這個方向的話他也要涉及修法可是哪些範圍比較適當而且相關的配套該是什麼我想這部分的確要花一點時間來研議因為整個運營留庭的制度包括涉及到性供法也涉及到救保法我想我也很清楚只是這裡面可能就不一定是所有的範圍都打開就說只要"},{"start":273.129,"end":292.376,"text":"阿公阿嬤去照顾这个孙子或孙女就能够适用因为很多他的这个实际的抚养权没有在阿公阿嬷这边部长其实针对这部分我知道你担心说这个整个开放下去影响的层面会不会很大"},{"start":293.396,"end":311.488,"text":"那可是其實針對部分我們也大概了解過其實我們推估我們60歲以上受雇勞工有孫子女我們預計大概有孫子女大概60歲大概60歲推估我們60歲以上那從我們到去年底"},{"start":312.648,"end":341.668,"text":"60岁以上受雇劳工的比例其实在所有比例里面整个比例里面他占不到4%只有3.9多%所以其实他的影响是非常有限所以整体来讲我们一般来讲要到有孙子孙女一般大概是到60岁但我还是跟文在补充的事情是说因为运营流停原本的运营流停原本一个概念他还是基于他这个抚养权的概念"},{"start":342.649,"end":361.663,"text":"那所以今天如果要談這個育孫的部分的育嬰留學的話他可能我們還是希望他可以在一個有撫養權的概念下面去做討論不只是說會不會錢不多或者是不只是這個問題而是他有一個他原本制度設計的邏輯"},{"start":363.223,"end":379.094,"text":"好 所以其實剛剛我們也有提一個重點其實主要是因應我們現在社會少子女化跟高齡化那現在其實你看公務人員任用法它已經修正表示我們社會上"},{"start":379.674,"end":400.676,"text":"是真的有这个需求不然为什么考试院跟行政院你看它整体的动作都很快那我们说如果公务人员针对这一部分它施行的效果很好我是建议我们劳动部应该可以研议朝这一方面去研议我想我们确认一下因为就我知道好像是不是公务员这边的预论他只有给假他没有给津贴啊"},{"start":402.084,"end":416.215,"text":"對我剛是講說但是現在如果是從勞工的運流亭的話那有假又有津貼有流亭又有津貼這是兩個法案我們第一個法案是說對可是我說公務人員部分也沒有津貼吧我們印象中是沒有津貼對那是"},{"start":416.895,"end":442.904,"text":"两个法案嘛一个就是针对我们希望从公务人员的部分也能够延伸到我们劳工预孙留职停薪的部分那当然我们针对津贴的部分我们是建议针对这一部分是不是可以从保险法这一部分来研议因为它整体来讲60岁以上的劳工其实占我们所有劳工其实只有三点多趴不到四趴"},{"start":443.424,"end":461.762,"text":"我覺得相關的演繹還是希望他是要從這個這個撫養權尤其是法院認定的撫養權為核心從這個概念來去做相關權力的延伸跟演繹的討論那因為這個大概就比較才比較符合暈流亭的概念"},{"start":462.562,"end":482.103,"text":"因為留情是從這個概念來發展出來那這部分因為有兩個原因第一個就是我們希望針對我們育孫的部分留職停薪的部分能夠推廣到我們那個阿公阿嬤能夠從我們的但這個一樣還是要有還是要有法院的撫養權這個才能夠比較有利潤的基礎"},{"start":483.332,"end":501.124,"text":"但是我說現在公務人員這個推廣很好是說育嬰留職停薪的部分從公務人員的部分希望他做得很好的時候因應少子化跟高齡化希望能夠延伸到我們的勞工那針對津貼的部分當然我們下次提出我們希望主要真的是鼓勵"},{"start":501.804,"end":520.999,"text":"希望針對年輕人現在因為少子化絕對是國安危機我們要因應更多的策略希望能夠鼓勵年輕人去多生小孩不然這個少子化已經是非常嚴重的國安危機跟我們說明其實年輕人的確現在生小孩尤其年輕人生小孩以後更希望是自己帶"},{"start":522.574,"end":548.089,"text":"更希望是自己帶我想這個趨勢跟比例是看得清楚但是有些狀況是不允許對 但是我說他還是要看這個撫養權的概念對啦 我們盡量能夠放寬重點我們就是希望能夠解決少子化跟高年化這個問題們所因應的那所以我們今天提出希望能夠來研議是不是怎麼樣子鼓勵年輕人多生小孩子那現在已經從公務人員做我們希望能夠擴大到勞工所以才從勞動員"},{"start":549.25,"end":567.928,"text":"我认为我们可以在整体运流亭制度上面来去思考但是还是是刚才讲说是这个这个抚养权的概念要以这个为出发点跟核心对这个没有办法一下子就没有跟着的地方就会有时候就像制度的稳定性就会比较多的影响"},{"start":568.648,"end":594.919,"text":"對 這個我們可以納入整體來討論但是我們的目標就是希望針對少子化部分能延應更多的策略能夠鼓勵年輕人多生小孩因為高齡化希望讓阿公阿嬤能夠來照顧也減輕我們年輕新手父母的負擔是 謝謝好 那接下來請我們勞保師師長跟勞保局局長好 那今天 當然我們今天"},{"start":595.973,"end":613.023,"text":"主要針對就業服務法跟勞工保險條例那我們也知道其實這裡面兩個重點今天就是我們希望修法 明定政府負最後支付的責任那我剛剛也聽部長針對這部分部長勞動部這邊也是持開放的態度"},{"start":617.446,"end":635.179,"text":"那還有我們另外一個就是撥補法制化那我聽了以後好像部長對於撥補法制化這一部分也沒有太大的問題好像是對於要設定金額部長好像認為這一部分比較有疑義設定固定金額"},{"start":636.56,"end":658.452,"text":"可能就会跟我们的财政纪律法的这个会有汉格所以我们比较顾虑的是这一点就是因为108年有一个财政纪律法第七条规定就是建议不予民定政府每年拨补金额避免我们预算僵化或者会限制我们财政运用的能力是"},{"start":659.272,"end":682.608,"text":"那這一部分那當然我們現在據我們了解其實這個社會保險基金它有它的特殊性那我們也看到其實農保健保它都有固定經費的額度像農保主管機關審核撥補然後醫生請中央予以補助那健保的部分當然它是"},{"start":683.942,"end":699.308,"text":"以每年度保險經費扣除法定收入後36%的部分由主管機關編列預算撥補資也就是說其實農保跟健保它都有固定經費額度的撥補條例那這都是在"},{"start":700.828,"end":720.288,"text":"那个财政纪律法之前对财政纪律法过后对基本上大家对财政纪律的要求就不太允许固定金额入法所以也就是说我们财政纪律法是108年公布嘛是那我的意思是说所以为什么他公布以后他对农保健保他没有特别的"},{"start":721.169,"end":749.492,"text":"提出說明或者去限制他但是在他公布之後後面的法規如果要這樣修訂的話那就會跟他漢格了對 那我們意思是說其實社會保險基金真的是有它的特殊性那我們也看106年其實蔡英文總統她有提出這個願版針對我們這個修正條文有提出她的願版可是我現在還沒有看到我們賴清德總統我們勞動部這邊有提出相關的版本"},{"start":750.333,"end":760.742,"text":"我想跟委員說明尤其是在勞保條例的第6669條我想朝野委員都有提出版本那我們很願意開放正向的態度來參與委員會裡面審議的討論"},{"start":763.594,"end":781.027,"text":"對 我是希望部長還是針對這一部分因為我們一直認為社會保險它真的是有它的特殊性那之前農保健保它會去編列表示真的有它的需求當然也因應108年財政紀律法的關係那我是認為這一部分"},{"start":782.188,"end":802.202,"text":"居然以前連106年蔡英文總統都有提出版本那她也是在108年之前對 那我是意思說表示她有她的需求嘛那如果說這個有她討論的空間我還是建議說我們還是要提出版本啊不然沒有提出版本還是不行跟我說我們會在審議的時候把我們的看法很清楚的來跟委員們討論"},{"start":803.243,"end":815.335,"text":"那包括委員們目前條文的一些修正的意見或者我們各個條文的相關的評估我們也會讓委員知道好對因為我意思說我們到現在還沒有看到版本還是希望勞動部盡快來提出是是好謝謝好謝謝圖權級委員發言"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}