{"error":false,"id":["165527"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":165527,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165527","日期":"2025-11-17","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-4-26-11","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":4,"會次":11,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[26],"委員會代碼:str":["社會福利及衛生環境委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2025-11-17T13:29:34+08:00","結束時間":"2025-11-17T13:37:36+08:00","影片長度":"00:08:02","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/ff1e125e807f56abb470890a9463f39cbfb6dfa65ed0fc1d3a9647aa96f21cfc9d9045ad635f6ddf5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"葉元之","委員發言時間":"13:29:34 - 13:37:36","會議時間":"2025-11-17T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查\n(一)委員黃健豪等16人、委員陳超明等16人、委員蘇清泉等17人、委員呂玉玲等16人及委員柯志恩等16人擬具「勞工保險條例第六十三條條文修正草案」案。\n(二)委員陳瑩等19人擬具「勞工保險條例第五十八條條文修正草案」案。\n(三)委員許宇甄等19人、委員林國成等32人、委員王育敏等20人、委員蔡其昌等19人、委員羅廷瑋等16人、委員蔡易餘等18人、委員王美惠等17人、委員徐欣瑩等22人、委員翁曉玲等19人、委員楊曜等25人及委員王鴻薇等22人擬具「勞工保險條例第六十六條及第六十九條條文修正草案」案。\n(四)委員邱鎮軍等19人擬具「勞工保險條例第三十一條條文修正草案」案。\n(五)委員李昆澤等25人及委員賴瑞隆等17人擬具「勞工保險條例第六十九條條文修正草案」案。\n(六)委員廖先翔等18人擬具「勞工保險條例第十九條條文修正草案」案。\n(七)委員葉元之等21人、委員何欣純等17人及委員陳超明等16人擬具「勞工保險條例第五十八條條文修正草案」案。\n(八)委員陳秀寳等21人擬具「勞工保險條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n(九)委員王鴻薇等17人擬具「勞工保險條例第七十四條之二條文修正草案」案。\n(十)委員林倩綺等32人及委員傅崐萁等19人擬具「勞工保險條例第五十九條條文修正草案」案。\n(十一)委員陳瑩等19人擬具「勞工保險條例第六條條文修正草案」案。\n(十二)委員李昆澤等19人擬具「勞工保險條例第二十九條條文修正草案」案。\n\n二、審查\n(一)委員陳玉珍等18人擬具「就業服務法第二十四條及第二十七條條文修正草案」案。\n(二)委員涂權吉等17人擬具「就業服務法第二十四條條文修正草案」案。\n(三)委員許宇甄等18人擬具「就業服務法第二十四條條文修正草案」案。\n(四)委員翁曉玲等22人擬具「就業服務法第二十四條條文修正草案」案。\n(五)委員蘇清泉等18人擬具「就業服務法第二十四條條文修正草案」案。\n(六)委員廖偉翔等16人擬具「就業服務法第二十四條條文修正草案」案。\n(七)委員洪孟楷等16人擬具「就業服務法第二十四條條文修正草案」案。\n(八)台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「就業服務法第二十四條條文修正草案」案。\n(九)委員柯志恩等18人擬具「就業服務法第二十四條條文修正草案」案。\n(十)委員王育敏等17人擬具「就業服務法第二十四條、第二十七條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。\n(十一)委員楊瓊瓔等27人擬具「就業服務法第二十四條條文修正草案」案。\n(十二)委員郭國文等19人擬具「就業服務法第二十四條及第二十六條之一條文修正草案」案。\n【綜合詢答，僅詢答】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4.806593750000001,"end":7.945343750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16.21409375,"end":17.04096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":16.66971875,"end":20.871593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":21.192218750000002,"end":22.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":23.16659375,"end":25.39409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":25.76534375,"end":27.48659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":30.65909375,"end":32.751593750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":32.970968750000004,"end":34.18596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":34.18596875,"end":34.82721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":34.21971875,"end":34.38846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":34.42221875,"end":36.36284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":35.75534375,"end":38.74221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":39.079718750000005,"end":48.85034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":39.45096875,"end":40.07534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":49.45784375,"end":52.42784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":52.73159375,"end":53.744093750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":54.047843750000006,"end":55.49909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":56.02221875,"end":59.66721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":60.00471875,"end":64.71284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":65.38784375,"end":76.27221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":76.39034375,"end":78.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":80.15346875,"end":89.56971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":88.86096875000001,"end":94.39596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":90.10971875,"end":90.59909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":92.23596875000001,"end":92.65784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":94.36221875000001,"end":106.32659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":95.05409375,"end":95.69534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":96.82596875,"end":97.28159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":105.24659375,"end":119.26971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":119.26971875000001,"end":121.83471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":120.46784375000001,"end":120.94034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":121.68284375,"end":129.63096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":129.74909375000001,"end":130.08659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":131.08221875,"end":131.50409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":131.58846875,"end":138.60846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":139.43534375000002,"end":141.25784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":141.56159375000001,"end":143.56971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":143.73846875,"end":145.88159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":146.37096875,"end":146.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":146.43846875,"end":146.86034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":147.48471875,"end":148.49721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":148.15971875,"end":149.84721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":149.84721875,"end":149.88096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":150.28596875000002,"end":151.72034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":151.88909375,"end":152.98596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":152.09159375000002,"end":154.28534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":154.97721875000002,"end":158.06534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":158.82471875000002,"end":158.97659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":159.68534375000002,"end":160.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":160.42784375000002,"end":168.42659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":162.58784375000002,"end":162.95909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":165.76034375,"end":190.21221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":189.23346875000001,"end":193.09784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":190.87034375000002,"end":192.30471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":193.72221875000002,"end":200.97846875000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請到部長 謝謝請洪部長部長先問一下那個有關於勞保的議題我們現在針對身心障礙者如果要申請老年給付的話大概要幾歲以後開始可以都是一樣 跟一般的人一樣都是60歲對不對"},{"start":35.025,"end":55.306,"text":"這是規定在勞工已經到了64歲了法定年齡這是規定在勞工保險法第58條裡面那我希望說那個勞動部可以考慮一個狀況因為根據很多研究指示身心障礙者他們老化的會比較早會提早老化然後再來就是他們的"},{"start":56.075,"end":78.548,"text":"平均餘命大概也會比一般人短一點所以能不能將身心障礙者的老年給付提前好像我是有一個提案一個修正案就是希望能夠提早到50歲假設他50歲離職退保的話可以來申請老年給付不知道那個部長能不能來演繹一下"},{"start":80.233,"end":103.516,"text":"跟委員報告 身障者的照顧我們覺得不只是社會保險他還是要從整體的社會的福利啊我知道啦 不用 我現在是講這個嘛我只是講這個 你針對這個問題回答就好了 好不好好 那在國際趨勢上對身障者也跟一般人的一樣因為我們現在的醫療的進步嘛他還是朝著延緩退休"},{"start":105.718,"end":129.451,"text":"這個我沒有說那個要提早退休啊我是說申請老年給付就如果說他已經沒有工作的然後現在離職了退保了那要申請老年給付能不能提早我的議題在這邊意思是一樣啊就是說他要跟他要不要退休沒有關係有些人他想要晚退就晚退嘛我現在是針對有一些他已經離職退保的人啊"},{"start":131.819,"end":147.572,"text":"那意思就是說如果對於這些身障者讓他提早來領第一個其實我們在老年年金的機制裡面已經有讓他可以提早五年領減額年金提早五年是幾歲可以領減額年金我這邊提案是五十歲嘛"},{"start":155.434,"end":177.047,"text":"你那個今天你研議一下啦好不好那如果再讓他提早的話他可能老保的年資會很短而且他不能參加國保這個他們自己會做出對他們來說最有利的判斷嘛當然我們盡量站在他們的角度去規劃嘛但是我現在是針對一些比較我們如果法規定的很嚴的話"},{"start":178.107,"end":192.676,"text":"那有些特殊案例就會被法規綁死嘛我現在是說考量到一些特殊狀況稍微鬆綁嘛 只是這樣而已那你們勞動部要做的東西我們都沒有意見啊 都是支持的啊但是我們針對身障的其實有失能年輕了"},{"start":193.956,"end":220.791,"text":"這不一樣的東西啦不是一直跟我扯別的好先先這樣了我反正我先把這個議題先拋出來我們研究一下我認為這不是扯啦這真的是我們沒有沒有我現在在講A我們的同仁還是我現在講A然後就跟我說你有BCD那我就沒有辦法聚焦我們就沒辦法聚焦了嘛還是會有一個整個基金的思考啦我就沒辦法聚焦了啦先針對這個問題啦我認為這不是扯啦那就沒有聚焦在這個議題裡面嘛好第二個我跟這個部長問一下"},{"start":223.72,"end":252.074,"text":"央行現在又說要增加那個基本工資那我有一些央行老總部央行央行我說央行現在又呼籲啦要提高基本工資然後那我現在是想請教一下我有問過一些有一些人資給我一些建議就是說為什麼我們提高基本工資但是絕大多數的勞工啊他們薪資是沒有跟著成長主要原因是因為大家不是領基本薪資"},{"start":253.086,"end":256.471,"text":"那現在基本薪資提高當然對本"},{"start":257.322,"end":284.314,"text":"假設對本國的勞工他是領基本薪資的當然是有受惠但絕大多數領基本薪資的是外勞那所以只要是基本薪資 大部分是本勞外勞也有嘛外勞也有嘛 但並不是他們是絕大多數就是外勞有一些公司裡面他們很多是比如說都是外勞為主嘛那就是在他們公司裡面就是外勞提高嘛那我要講的是說你們有沒有研究過就是讓"},{"start":285.354,"end":298.833,"text":"本勞跟外勞的基本薪資可以脫鉤這個議題好 我講說人資的建議是為什麼你知道嗎因為有一些企業喔他們每一年的薪資的預算調高的預算其實都是固定的"},{"start":299.335,"end":316.942,"text":"那假設那家公司他是以外就是很多作業員或什麼是以外勞為主的話那基本工資一提高他必須要支付就是外勞的薪資提高的的那些薪資成本嘛所以相對來說他就壓縮了他幫本國勞工就是不是領基本薪資的本國勞工加薪的機會"},{"start":318.382,"end":338.332,"text":"這個是有些人的呼籲啦那當然我知道勞動部一定有考量因為這個議題也不是新的議題大家討論非常久葉委員講這比較是從公司跟資方的角度啦齁那但是你如果讓本勞跟外勞的最低工資脫鉤的時候等於也讓資方有更多其實可能更"},{"start":339.272,"end":360.983,"text":"更低成本的勞工可以使用的時候這其實對於本勞的就業機會對我知道我知道我知道我知道我知道我知道我知道我知道我知道我知道我知道我知道我知道我知道我知道我知道我知道我知道我知道我知道我知道我知道我知道我知道我知道我知道我知道我知道我知道我知道我知道我知道我知道我知道我知道我知道我知道我知道我知道我知道我知道我知道我知道我知道我知道我知道我知道我知道我知道我知道我知道我知道我知道我知道我知道我知道我知道我知道我知道我知道我知道我知道我知道我知道我知道我知道我知道我知道我知道我知道我知道我知道我知道我知道我知道我知道我知道我知道我知道我知道我知道我知道我知道我知道我知道我知道我知道我知道我知道我知道我知道我知道我知道我知道我知道我知道我知道我知道我知道我知道我知道我知道我知道我知道我知道我知道我知道我知道我知道我知道我知道我知道我知道我知道我知道我知道像這個其實有一些配套都是可以解決嗎舉舉來講好你也可以例如說我們之前講的嗎你可以提高就要安定基金就要安定費啊就是說讓他聘外勞的成本沒有沒有想像中的這麼低"},{"start":361.567,"end":391.228,"text":"然後讓他覺得 因為本勞那如果你拉高救援肯定費那為什麼不乾脆就讓他因為當然你拉高的成本不見得一樣你讓他在這邊減少成本然後在救援肯定費再增加成本你不一定要完全一樣不是 你錢的部分不一定要完全一樣可是那個公司他會考量啊我今天也許聘本勞貴一點點但是本勞至少在語言文化適應力上面會比較好所以成本比較高他還是願意聘本勞啊"},{"start":392.15,"end":408.967,"text":"所以我覺得你可以想想看因為這個是一個很多人之的建議啦就是說因為我們實施就是那個本國勞工跟外籍就是外籍勞工的那個薪資沒有不脫鉤已經很長一段時間了我覺得是可以研究一下看看怎麼做"},{"start":410.829,"end":432.086,"text":"怎麼做一直有這個聲音啦那當然這聲音有很多他其實從企業的角度他會講到這樣的事情可是當然如果從一個保障勞動就業的角度來說的話我們的確問題是你這樣一直講那企業從他的角度他就是不這樣做啊除非你有別的方法"},{"start":432.786,"end":460.218,"text":"要他就是同時間幫不是領基本工資的人加薪否則他就是這樣做啊你也沒有什麼強制力道跟委員說明最低工資調高的目的只要還是在出還是在去面對這個邊際勞工他可能在整體加薪上面會比較困難所以我們從過去從大概兩萬塊左右現在加到了我們都支持基本工資調升我沒有說不要我沒有說不要我現在講的是本國跟外勞的脫鉤這件事情"},{"start":460.718,"end":473.373,"text":"就是如果有脫鉤的話可以幫助一些不是領基本工資的勞工也有機會可以加薪因為企業加薪的那個預算就是這麼多我的意思是這樣我認為這議題真的要比較審慎尤其是從勞動權益的角度來看真的要比較審慎謝謝"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}