{"error":false,"id":["165552"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":165552,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165552","日期":"2025-11-19","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-4-35-15","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第15次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":4,"會次":15,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[35],"委員會代碼:str":["外交及國防委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第15次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2025-11-19T09:19:05+08:00","結束時間":"2025-11-19T09:29:11+08:00","影片長度":"00:10:06","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/9c5448532e3833d11957e3d5ab60db2963294d83d43b212bf2a9d4295e9d8f3a61f4198ff1cb05dc5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"羅美玲","委員發言時間":"09:19:05 - 09:29:11","會議時間":"2025-11-19T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國防部部長顧立雄報告「國軍心理衛生制度實施後之影響探討、心理求助樣態原因分析及策進作為」，並備質詢。）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1.6003437500000002,"end":4.570343750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.320343750000003,"end":12.46784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13.075343750000002,"end":118.94909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":119.48909375000001,"end":129.74909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":130.01909375,"end":130.89659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":132.12846875,"end":133.14096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":133.98471875,"end":135.11534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":134.15346875,"end":134.65971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":135.11534375000002,"end":148.83471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":137.24159375000002,"end":137.47784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":149.66159375,"end":177.37034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":153.69471875000002,"end":154.23471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":159.90471875,"end":160.02284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":160.02284375000002,"end":160.41096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":160.41096875000002,"end":160.46159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":177.92721875,"end":180.44159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":180.69471875000002,"end":195.15659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":195.39284375000003,"end":202.73346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":203.17221875,"end":217.34721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":204.03284375,"end":204.33659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":208.48784375000002,"end":208.89284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":217.34721875000002,"end":219.10221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":218.05596875,"end":229.96971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":220.77284375000002,"end":221.39721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":230.08784375000002,"end":240.02721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":240.51659375000003,"end":240.88784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":240.97221875000002,"end":249.20721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":247.46909375,"end":247.87409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":249.39284375000003,"end":272.66346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":268.74846875000003,"end":269.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":272.47784375000003,"end":290.97284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":291.39471875000004,"end":295.49534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":295.84971875,"end":314.44596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":314.80034375,"end":322.98471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":314.81721875,"end":315.15471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":319.50846875,"end":319.84596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":322.74846875000003,"end":325.95471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":326.17409375,"end":374.45346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":374.52096875,"end":375.76971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":376.02284375000005,"end":390.38346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":390.31596875,"end":392.45909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":390.97409375,"end":391.44659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":392.88096875,"end":395.41221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":395.76659375,"end":437.16096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":396.08721875000003,"end":396.17159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":400.10346875000005,"end":400.54221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":414.86909375000005,"end":415.39221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":419.12159375000005,"end":419.50971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":437.93721875000006,"end":460.04346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":460.38096875,"end":467.29971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":465.62909375000004,"end":476.86784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":477.40784375000004,"end":479.31471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":479.31471875000005,"end":500.83034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":490.11471875,"end":491.95409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":499.00784375,"end":499.34534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":500.83034375000005,"end":536.62221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":537.9553437500001,"end":546.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":546.8484687499999,"end":547.30409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":547.6922187499999,"end":550.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":549.6497187500001,"end":550.12221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":551.4722187500001,"end":559.9097187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":560.0447187500001,"end":569.7647187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":566.9297187500001,"end":567.3515937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":568.5834687500001,"end":572.78534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":570.9797187500001,"end":577.67909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":577.7634687500001,"end":578.4890937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":578.94471875,"end":606.6028437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":606.7040937500001,"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部長有關國軍心理衛生制度跟如何減少國軍智商的這一題其實在去年6月的時候呢本席也曾經跟部長做過這個議題的這個探討那雖然說我們一直都有三級的防處機制可是我們卻發現有超過八成的智商事件未在初級發掘預防這個階段呢就被及時的這個發現那也許是因為個案它的壓力"},{"start":39.594,"end":54.904,"text":"本身就是來自於上級或者是說他根本就不信任這個機制那所以呢我們發現有些很遺憾的事情就發生了他就用智商的方式來做這個解決那我也記得上次我們也曾經討論過軍中心府人員跟這個專業證照不足的這個問題"},{"start":58.886,"end":79.05,"text":"那我也曾經有要求就是說國防部呢要引進一些民間的這個專業的這個機構來做這個合作那我從今天的報告呢真的有看到國防部呢有做檢討跟做這個改善那國防部呢今年初有啟動的心理健康照護照護方案那我剛才看報告有提到就是說有跟國內328"},{"start":81.611,"end":96.644,"text":"所的民間這個諮商輔導機構來做合作每個人每年有6次每次40分鐘然後這都可以自行去預約也不需要轉介然後也強調不插健保卡不留就醫記錄確保這個私密"},{"start":99.767,"end":114.082,"text":"再來我們有看到身心調適假也是在今年11月也入法了就是說我們的軍官士官志願役的士兵每一年有三天的身心調適假我想請問一下就是說這328所的民間諮詢輔導機構都是衛福部"},{"start":119.768,"end":148.076,"text":"來做引介的嗎是嗎我所了解是說全國有600多家那我們選擇了328所民間的諮商輔導機構來做合作這個是衛福部引介的委員好我是政戰局局長600多家我們都有各地區的行為中心特別發函跟打電話都是來源都是這600多家也都是從衛福部所提供的名單裡面去尋找"},{"start":149.907,"end":176.175,"text":"所以就是說每一家六百多家我們都有去函就是跟他們說是不是要尋求這個合作然後目前有意願的是三百二十八家是的那我想了解就是說因為我們的軍中有軍中的特有的文化那當然還有一些勤務這些訓練壓力等等這些我不曉得很清楚這些三百二十八家對於軍中的文化等等對於我們的整個"},{"start":178.495,"end":201.931,"text":"單位的這個了不了解因為畢竟軍中它在我們在過去的話軍中有軍中的特有文化這個壓力可能不是一般跟民眾可能是所面臨的這個壓力可能這個不是那麼的一樣那這些328所的民間諮詢單位它到底對軍中了不了解 請問"},{"start":203.826,"end":229.294,"text":"委員這個指教也是相當精確就是說一般在民間的這些我們的合作機構他通常會對感情因素、經濟因素或者是家庭因素這些都會比較收行那如果是屬於他這個環境適應因素或者是訓練給他帶來的一些壓力等等所以"},{"start":230.654,"end":239.761,"text":"也許他對這方面軍中的這個事務並不是那麼的熟悉所以我們現在有在規劃我們要跟他們進行一個交流也就是說"},{"start":241.532,"end":262.705,"text":"他們本來講說要做一些教育訓練我說這個應該不叫教育訓練應該是做一個交流就是說我們應該要應該會明年就會來開始進行然後我們會來分北中南東四個地區然後分別跟這些機構來進行交流讓他們來"},{"start":264.921,"end":280.296,"text":"比較充分的理解軍中的這種環境軍中的組織 軍中的訓練因為我有看到就是說我們國軍有邀請這相關的民間單位可能來給我們的這些軍官 可能這些"},{"start":281.677,"end":294.407,"text":"新府人員等等來上一些課程可是我覺得在這之前我反而覺得這328所的民間諮商機構更是要先來了解我們金鐘的整個結構"},{"start":296.088,"end":314.135,"text":"我是覺得這樣子的輔導才能夠到位啦這是我所看到當然部長剛剛也有提到了我們不是叫他們來上課我們要先來做一個交流我想說這是應該要先做互相的了解我覺得這個是一個基本要做的事情"},{"start":315.195,"end":323.439,"text":"這些民間的合作機構能夠更了解軍中的文化環境那這個整體的服務品質我想就能夠提升部長也有發現到這個問題因為我在看這個報告書我想說怎麼沒有讓他們先來了解我們軍動到底是一個怎麼樣的文化結構"},{"start":334.523,"end":348.676,"text":"OK好那再來還有一點就是說我們有提到說那等於是說我們現在是用雙軌的一個方式如果你不想經過這個三級房儲機制的這個國軍你可以尋求這個心理健康照顧"},{"start":349.617,"end":373.916,"text":"方案嘛對不對那我們一再強調就是說要確保這個國軍的這個私密是因為他提到就是說不插健保卡不留就醫記錄就是要保密嘛那類似這樣子的話我們如何在保密的前提之下同時不影響高風險個案的單位在單位裡面的追蹤那當然我有看到就是說你們好像也會經過一個"},{"start":376.078,"end":391.869,"text":"比如說有高風險的會通知這個地區心理衛生中心介入協處嗎那如果這樣子的話這個如果有高風險的這個個案的話也會通報我們國防部嗎會是這樣子嗎我們的做法就是說"},{"start":392.99,"end":414.586,"text":"我們當然核心還是各自保護那無需轉介然後希望能夠主動求助但是如果合作的機構評估他是有具有自殺意圖或高風險的時候他轉介到是轉介到我們的地區衛生中心我們的地區衛生中心就是設在應該是幾個北中南東的醫院裡面四個醫院裡面的"},{"start":417.287,"end":436.915,"text":"因為他們是有證照的這屬於三級的專業處遇或者是到醫院的身心科身心科或者是到這個由這個具有證照的心腹人員來針對這些人來做一個精神醫療跟心理治療這個監獄局可能在"},{"start":438.087,"end":462.334,"text":"要做補充如果說在民間的機構他認為有需要進一步的輔導或者甚至是治療他可以轉到我們醫院的地區行為中心那裡面有心服官有社公司可以協助那如果地區行為中心覺得他需要疾病治療那會轉接到我們的精神科"},{"start":462.734,"end":479.003,"text":"那該門診就門診 該住院就住院可是那軍中會接到通報就是說這個人其實他有高風險也是在單位裡面也要特別注意還是說對於他的這個介入只到這個地區心理衛生中心而已"},{"start":480.143,"end":500.608,"text":"第七心理衛生中心處理以後看他需不需要轉介給精神科醫師不管需不需要轉介跟他的單位的心腹單位都會保持聯繫都會保持聯繫所以會從他的第一級到第二級旅級到心衛中心到精神科這個都是會聯繫的而且都會在保密的狀況之下"},{"start":500.868,"end":515.738,"text":"OK 好了解OK 那再來還有一點就是說我有看到就是說每人每年是六次根據本席所了解就是說像智商剛開始的這個第一個月幾乎每個禮拜固定都要去面談"},{"start":516.659,"end":536.172,"text":"因為這是要建立彼此之間的這個信任嘛所以才想了解這個案主的這個狀況等等所以他對這個的話當然也有我們有在想說是不是在這個前期的時候我們會增加免費諮商的這個次數嘛因為我們看是一年只有六次"},{"start":539.385,"end":550.591,"text":"這個一年要幾次這個部分我們最先開始是參照那個衛福部他有一個心理健康支持方案他是提供三次"},{"start":551.553,"end":572.88,"text":"那我們今年的2月開始實施的時候就是提供6次那這個部分要幾次這個部分我想我們可以來再跟專家學者來研議來再行評估這個有沒有提高的可能性因為這個剛上路可以理解是 因為衛福部那邊我們也會跟他們再商量一下"},{"start":577.802,"end":605.921,"text":"OK 好當然剛剛一開始部長就有提到就是說官兵是捐付保家衛國的這個使命所以身心健康是需要穩定這當然也是站立的這個關鍵當然是說這個議題從過去到現在我們討論了很多當然我也看到了國防部確確實實這一年來確實有在做一些檢討跟改善那真的是我們希望能夠建立一個全方位的心理健康支持這個體系OK 好 以上謝謝"},{"start":606.742,"end":606.943,"text":"好 謝謝委員"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}