{"error":false,"id":["165570"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":165570,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165570","日期":"2025-11-19","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-4-19-11","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第4會期經濟委員會第11次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":4,"會次":11,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[19],"委員會代碼:str":["經濟委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第4會期經濟委員會第11次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2025-11-19T10:03:51+08:00","結束時間":"2025-11-19T10:12:49+08:00","影片長度":"00:08:58","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/9c5448532e3833d19bc87e66b173fc9856e0913f8e9ddf6f9ed37f72173c5d09ea2fa0b0c1a4ccb95ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"賴瑞隆","委員發言時間":"10:03:51 - 10:12:49","會議時間":"2025-11-19T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期經濟委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：邀請經濟部部長率台灣中油股份有限公司董事長及行政院公共工程委員會首長就「中油三接案第二期遭檢舉浮報工程款項爭議」進行報告，並備質詢。\n【11月19日及20日二天一次會】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.03096875,"end":2.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7.50659375,"end":8.704718750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9.56534375,"end":11.47221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.589718750000003,"end":16.180343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16.28159375,"end":16.31534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16.31534375,"end":16.46721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16.46721875,"end":31.50284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16.48409375,"end":16.872218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":31.840343750000002,"end":34.15221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":34.15221875,"end":34.16909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":34.72596875,"end":35.75534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":37.814093750000005,"end":46.70721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":48.91784375,"end":49.27221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":50.352218750000006,"end":59.59971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":56.072843750000004,"end":58.165343750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":58.485968750000005,"end":61.034093750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":61.844093750000006,"end":65.89409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":64.86471875000001,"end":68.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":67.39596875000001,"end":68.15534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":68.57721875,"end":68.89784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":69.57284375,"end":74.34846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":74.41596875,"end":78.58409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":78.26346875,"end":81.55409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":81.38534375,"end":82.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":82.73534375,"end":85.87409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":84.67596875000001,"end":91.49346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":92.03346875000001,"end":101.66909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":100.70721875000001,"end":101.14596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":101.16284375000001,"end":101.93909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":101.88846875,"end":117.00846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":117.31221875000001,"end":133.47846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":134.00159375,"end":135.26721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":134.22096875,"end":135.87471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":135.97596875000002,"end":136.31346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":136.49909375000001,"end":141.15659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":142.01721875,"end":148.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":149.18909375,"end":150.97784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":151.41659375,"end":153.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":152.29409375,"end":153.01971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":153.03659375,"end":153.05346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":153.05346875,"end":153.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":153.08721875,"end":157.87971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":153.12096875,"end":153.15471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":157.87971875000002,"end":164.39346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":157.93034375000002,"end":158.57159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":164.39346875,"end":168.91596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":164.56221875,"end":165.03471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":169.42221875,"end":188.52471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":188.99721875,"end":191.02221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":191.69721875000002,"end":206.91846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":198.80159375000002,"end":199.18971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":207.40784375,"end":236.43284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":217.61721875,"end":217.70159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":217.87034375000002,"end":218.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":226.66221875000002,"end":226.71284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":234.76221875000002,"end":236.29784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":236.43284375000002,"end":236.44971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":237.12471875000003,"end":242.44034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":242.65971875000002,"end":242.74409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":242.74409375000002,"end":278.60346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":246.28784375,"end":246.77721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":248.17784375000002,"end":248.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":250.77659375000002,"end":250.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":278.89034375,"end":280.78034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":281.11784375,"end":325.93784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":293.94284375,"end":293.95971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":305.48534375,"end":305.83971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":312.64034375,"end":312.74159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":312.84284375000004,"end":312.97784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":326.25846875,"end":331.77659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":332.41784375000003,"end":336.51846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":336.88971875000004,"end":338.39159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":338.66159375,"end":346.54221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":346.82909375,"end":356.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":356.02596875,"end":376.84971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":377.13659375000003,"end":381.92909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":380.86596875000004,"end":381.97971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":382.31721875000005,"end":385.86096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":385.96221875000003,"end":390.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":390.02909375,"end":398.70284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":398.92221875,"end":400.71096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":401.31846875,"end":418.80096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":419.17221875,"end":422.44596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":422.44596875,"end":423.42471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":422.90159375,"end":437.48159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":437.86971875,"end":454.81221875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":455.20034375,"end":463.99221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":464.22846875000005,"end":469.71284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":471.14721875000004,"end":473.13846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":473.61096875000004,"end":473.99909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":474.42096875000004,"end":501.06659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":501.37034375,"end":510.76971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":511.37721875000005,"end":512.2040937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":512.4740937500001,"end":521.3672187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":521.6372187500001,"end":522.44721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":521.7890937500001,"end":522.16034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":522.56534375,"end":528.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":528.16784375,"end":531.13784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":531.25596875,"end":532.3190937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":536.62221875,"end":538.5122187500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.089,"end":11.129,"text":"再請賴立仁委員請做詢問好 謝謝邢工部長我們再請經濟部工部長"},{"start":15.643,"end":43.137,"text":"好 部長我先請教一下 上次我有問過就是普發現金的一萬 詐騙也非常多現在已經在普發現金當中了那當時有講到要三天內跟整個這些平台業者不管是Meta或者是臉書溝通後來有溝通嗎 有成效嗎我要問一下我的同事 看看部長要不要回覆一下三個禮拜才質詢過而已現在普發現金是最熱門的一個事件那大家都在領現金"},{"start":44.124,"end":67.707,"text":"那當時的詐騙的情況我們要求要做處理是有跟抒發部做了一些溝通但是詳細情況是不是允許我會跟那部長這邊有沒有跟部長有沒有跟臉書跟meta這邊做溝通基本上大部分是透過我們都是透過這個我請你們一定要跟直接溝通你們還是透過抒發部"},{"start":69.762,"end":81.617,"text":"我的意思是說這件事情是全政府大家都要動起來的事情因為主管機關是數位發展部那個工具在他手上我認為經濟部也有很多的工具可以去做就是"},{"start":82.813,"end":100.896,"text":"要不要裁罰這個是工具裁罰是最後一步但是溝通跟協調絕對是一個前期一個重要的工作我希望部長政府的滿意度要高支持度要高的話就是要讓人民有感那人民其實現在對於詐騙這件事情其實是很不滿的"},{"start":102.017,"end":117.149,"text":"那我認為這件事情每個部會都要動起來啦就是每個部會都要動起來都有影響力也都能夠做得到那只是裁罰是最後不得已手段最後裁罰才是手但是在溝通協調階段很多的就可以達到效果了"},{"start":117.509,"end":140.738,"text":"我講過就是當我們都看得懂這是個詐騙的時候臉書Meta不可能看不懂他們更有更多的方式可以去阻絕到事情我也希望未來經濟部要持續訂做事情而不是立法委員在上面質詢過後然後你們就放在旁邊然後就說喔這是訴發部的事情交給訴發部喔這是警政署的事情交給警政署我希望未來各部會當立委有提出這樣的要求三天內你也答應三天內會跟"},{"start":142.045,"end":168.935,"text":"跟演書Meta做溝通的時候我希望真的看到你們三天內做出的溝通而不是又丟給了速發部我認為這個是個不好的一個互動方式好 這個我們不知道嗎 請 未來要這樣子做那不然你當時就不要承諾我你三天會去溝通那如果你告訴我 我就知道了當初我們是想說因為數位發展部是主管機關我們還是要跟數位發展部共同來部長當重大社會議題的時候我希望各部會都有積極行政的態度啦"},{"start":169.882,"end":190.767,"text":"積極行政這件事情其實會變得很重要詐騙當是全全部人民都很厭惡的時候都很痛恨的時候的時候當經濟部門有更多積極的作為即使你是即使你一個關切的電話告訴Meta跟臉書的台灣的負責的相關人員告訴他們大家關注這一系題立委在"},{"start":192.007,"end":206.635,"text":"整個正式立法院委員會正式提出質詢那請你們要重視這個問題你們技術能力絕對有辦法做到那如果你們一個認真的告訴他們這件事情我相信他們會更認真的做如果他們不認真做這件事情的話那社會給他們的壓力會更大"},{"start":207.486,"end":236.211,"text":"好不好我希望未來這件事情是大家全政府是一起動起來我再次提醒啦齁人民很重視關切利己的時候全政府都要動起來跟你有任何相關跟機會方式都要請大家要動起來這樣我們才有辦法讓人民感受到政府在這件事情上的用心跟積極度好不好好再要請教一下現在有很多的國營事業也被假冒詐騙啦齁我認為這個也要加強宣導啦齁這個包括台電啊包括幾個都有可能被做這個這個是不是請"},{"start":237.151,"end":241.72,"text":"不斷的出新聞稿或者是圖卡說明這個不是這樣的情況"},{"start":243.142,"end":266.576,"text":"這個我希望一樣要重視這個就在經濟部轄下的包括各事業單位都現在詐騙手法非常的多翻線速度非常快政府唯有更快的效率去處理的時候才能讓人民很有感的覺得政府在堵住一方面我們加重這些詐騙的對他們的一些刑責一方面加重對他們的一些處罰同時但是只要你沒有"},{"start":267.236,"end":292.527,"text":"能堵住的話那既然這樣的事情就不會再發生我還是要強調啦有時候一被詐騙可能就是數百萬上千萬的一個損失那對每個家庭都非常大的一個痛所以我希望這件事情部長要再用我們用更積極的態度去處理啦很多時候我們常有水單電費的各種的都可能會形成他們詐騙的一個工具好不好我們更積極的處理的時候就有機會減少國人被詐騙的機會好的"},{"start":294.048,"end":320.041,"text":"再要請教一下 這個現在很多人在打擊綠電綠電其實全世界大家都在推動的我其實認為這個是對台灣是一個長遠來說是一個不利的一個發展方向全世界都在發展綠電但綠電在發展過程中一定有一些不孝業者去透過這個做違法的事情該打就打 該抓就抓 這必然要做的但是如果我們因為這樣而整體的限縮掉了所有的綠電的整體的發展"},{"start":321.121,"end":346.322,"text":"这对于台湾是不利的而且全世界现在很多企业都要绿电那对我们来说过度的去把这个绿电完全的堵住的时候对台湾未来的竞争力产生重大影响部长怎么看包括我们也觉得蛮遗憾的因为这个提案是基本上事实上民众党跟国民党都有提案那时候我们表达是说我们愿意用国民党的提案来作为协商的基础"},{"start":346.96,"end":362.214,"text":"但是很可惜並沒有被接受還是通過以這個民眾黨的版本那民眾黨版本是我們認為啦是過度嚴格啦部長那我請教行政院跟金門會不會再提出修正的版本出來因為這個綠電長遠來說是國際的趨勢也是我們重要的那"},{"start":366.218,"end":385.187,"text":"如果過頭了的話其實會對我們綠電產生很重大的一些影響經濟部跟行政院會不會再提出修法的一些這個提案回來希望能夠讓綠電但不效的部分不適合的部分讓我們做處理但是過頭了這有可能造成我們一定是要打擊非法的來保障合法的"},{"start":386.127,"end":400.108,"text":"那至於說要不要提出再修正這個我們來評估看看部長一定要提出來你不提出來的話你都認為這個對於整個台灣的競爭力長遠是發展是負面的是影響的你若不提出來的話那難道你要接受這樣一個狀況嗎"},{"start":401.434,"end":418.484,"text":"部長能不能在一個月的時間內提出行政院認為的修法的一個建議讓立法院整體來討論跟思考如果連行政院跟經濟部也都認為這樣的修法是過頭了是傷害到了綠電長遠的發展我希望一個月內提出經濟部的版本"},{"start":419.224,"end":437.326,"text":"提出進去的版本好嗎我們一個月會評估看看好不好一定要提出來啦因為你不提出來現在已經所有的綠電全部的全部已經很緊繃了嘛大家突然當年大家相信政府台灣要發展綠電的決心所以大家投入進來就發現突然現在一整個完全限縮回來之後那"},{"start":438.107,"end":463.152,"text":"這些原先信任政府相信政府要發展綠電的人全部會發現那到底政府的態度是什麼我認為應該要一個月內要提出來至少一個月內要提出來至少經濟部要提出你們版本你們的態度我相信你們都很了解也很熟悉了至少提出態度當大家擔憂的問題你們也做了解決但是有些過頭了影響到整個綠電長遠的競爭力的發展要提出你們的版本這樣才能夠讓"},{"start":464.732,"end":491.856,"text":"綠電能夠永續的發展這是全球的一個趨勢我認為經濟部要儘快提出來好嗎可以嗎我們來評估對好再來我來請教一下啦齁這個中油跟台電啦齁公安事故我一直在關切這件事情啦齁其實國營企業的公安事故我自己是老公子弟出生的每一個家庭如果公安發生了之後第一線是最辛苦的因為他可能影響到一個人甚至影響到一個家庭"},{"start":492.336,"end":510.316,"text":"我希望部長持續的包括董事長幾位董事長持續的重視公安事故這一段時間以來這幾年來中油12件台電29件這個都在增加而每一件的公安事故都是影響到一位工人第一線的工人甚至影響到"},{"start":511.437,"end":531.747,"text":"一個家庭 我認為這個都是重大的損傷不只對企業損傷 對所有 所以我希望這個事件公安事件 希望部長跟董事長必須要再重視 好嗎那也一樣 給我一個月內 給我一份你們的加強公安的一個檢討報告 好嗎這段時間我確實有注意到這件事情的一個增加好 謝謝部長 謝謝謝謝 接下來我們請"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}