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你沒有聽懂我的意思就是你第二個版本一定做得一定的版本我們有更新後的新的版本"},{"start":168.917,"end":198.637,"text":"我部長你有聽懂我意思嗎他沒有聽懂我意思沒有他剛剛已經講了就是我們只留更新後的版本以後就好了對啊但現在不是啊我剛才下網看了呀對所以我剛剛就說你們回去是不是統合成一個版本就好了既然都更新了那為什麼舊的版本還要放在上面這個沒有意義的事情嘛對不對好那接下來我要問喔這個因為部長手上沒有所以我是不是主席可以給我時間那個暫停我把我手上這一本提供給部長好不好因為我怕還是您手上是有的"},{"start":199.998,"end":225.815,"text":"好 那是不是可以暫停我時間我把這本拿給部長其實他有欸 要不要直接拿他的那個好 直接拿他的好了因為這本很那個好 那民眾一般來說呢最在乎的事情是呢聽到防空警報或者是我們需要去避難的時候那我們能夠去避難的避難點在哪裡我想請問一下 如果我今天我不清楚但我有這本手冊的話"},{"start":226.676,"end":254.894,"text":"以我們現在所在的立法院我們要如何透過這一本然後呢現在要花多少的時間能夠找到相關的避難點請問我們現在部長可不可以示範給我們看一下跟委員報告就這裡面手冊就有提到你在平時的時候哪裡啦哪一頁啊然後怎麼做第七頁第七頁ok好第七頁然後呢就在平時的時候就下載你有沒有你有沒有你有沒有這個download過這個app"},{"start":257.105,"end":269.562,"text":"我想有那這個APP金正福的APP跟消防防災的一點通的APP你有沒有登入過自己本身嘗試過這個APP上面的一些問題啊"},{"start":271.909,"end":294.521,"text":"就是說不然您懂我意思嗎你現在寫了一個APP在上面那我呢在緊急的時候呢我下載了這個APP比如說我看到第七頁之後我下載這個APP我問您一個問題警政服務的APP需不需要登入跟註冊個人資訊他下面有個QR code對啊你要不要你用手機的話要不要掃一下看看會發生什麼事情"},{"start":297.193,"end":320.484,"text":"來 我們看 我已經掃給你看了喔如果你使用的是警政服務的話你要先用使用者認證電話號碼 輸入驗證號碼之後開通帳號然後你才能進到這個警政服務系統所以如果你要想喔你今天這本叫做台灣全民安全指引它是接到防空警報之後我們要立刻尋找我們合適的避難所在"},{"start":321.545,"end":330.995,"text":"這個時候你提供給他的這個APP進去以後要先下載下載以後要打開打開之後要使用者認證然後呢要確認之後開通帳號你才能夠進到APP裡面去其實一個相當繁複的過程好您剛還有講到另外一個在21頁這個是平時要先下載嗎"},{"start":343.393,"end":371.28,"text":"你覺得有多少人平時有下載來我問一下警政服務APP目前有多少人下載下載數量目前是多少所以我們應該要宣導啊對嘛沒有我問你現在目前下載人數是多少嘛下載人數我手上沒有資料是啊所以你也不知道啊所以好你說要宣導但問題是你平常就要下載那你同時又有另外一個叫做消防防災一點通的APP在這個消防防災一點通的APP它跟警政服務有哪裡不一樣部長您知道嗎"},{"start":373.338,"end":376.646,"text":"他們我想細節的部分是不是說明一下"},{"start":377.099,"end":382.083,"text":"因為如果你們大家都不知道的話那你印這個本子給大家然後自己都不知道自己的本子的內容是什麼那請問一般人他會看嗎他會下載嗎他會使用嗎遇到問題的時候真的有用嗎我們希望這個冊子是有用的因為消防防災一點通就我理解因為他的資訊會有包括配售站救濟站等等的這些位置來我們看他相對剛才警政服務的APP比較好的地方是他不需要有這麼多的註冊行為"},{"start":406.562,"end":418.377,"text":"而且它可以下載離線地圖所以其實我很懷疑為什麼你們在防空警報的這個部分要放的是警政服務的APP而不是防災的這個1.通的APP但它一樣有一個問題來我給您看一下下一張圖片"},{"start":423.724,"end":444.39,"text":"同樣齁 同樣是一個 這就在我們旁邊而已齁你看雙月食品設計南店旁邊同樣在不同 左邊是警政的左邊是警政服務的APP右邊是消防防災伊田東的APP它都是屬於防空避難處所它寫的人次左邊寫的是645人右邊寫的是1416人請問哪一個數字才是正確的"},{"start":453.932,"end":474.669,"text":"我想這個相關的這些你講的這些數字的這個部分我們再來跟這個內政部再來核對一下我知道啊 但因為你們冊子都發我的意思是說你們在因為出版機關是國防部嘛上面印QR code也是國防部印的嘛"},{"start":475.089,"end":497.663,"text":"所以你們既然你要說這是一個當危機一來臨時的台灣全民安全指引照理來說上面所有的資訊你們都要進行過查核都要知道他到底是不是正確的而不是現在已經印出來了要發了都花了錢了然後才說我們再來看看那個APP怎麼樣這是不對的再來呢我們可以看到的是說呢來"},{"start":499.588,"end":508.493,"text":"你們裡面齁 這個離線地圖的部分像 好大家知道我們在隔壁這個中心大樓我們寫的避難人數是多少人嗎"},{"start":514.878,"end":541.996,"text":"2214 在我們中心大樓裡面如果今天有防災的話我們周邊來的人要進到我們的防空殯而且是地下室 2000多人所以我的意思是說我建議國防部還有跟內政部一同針對我們全台灣也可以請台北市政府一起幫忙到底有多少的防災避難人數它是可容納的我覺得真的應該要重新的去檢討"},{"start":543.457,"end":567.502,"text":"甚至我們周邊有很多其實是相關的政府部門他也有地下室的但是很多並沒有被納進來可是有非常多的私人住宅大樓是被納進來的這棟其實位置在哪裡很清楚我就不多說了可是你部長你確定今天如果災難來臨的時候一般民眾進得去嗎這個門口大家都是鎖起來的"},{"start":573.167,"end":578.674,"text":"你確定大家進得去嗎我想委員指的是應該指的是說這個地下室他可能在那個會關著嘛對啊他在大樓是這樣子嘛車道是這樣子嘛然後我要是住戶我才有車道的這個鑰匙嘛可是他也是所謂的防控避難的處所嘛"},{"start":591.849,"end":613.346,"text":"它上面寫的一邊說它可以容1416一邊說645我現在已經不知道哪一個數字是正確了然後呢你現在告訴我這麼多的私人住宅大樓裡面都是屬於防空避難那我今天我住附近的人因為我可能住四層樓公寓我沒有地下室我要去躲啊那請問我到了這個私人住宅大樓的時候我真的可以進得去嗎"},{"start":616.985,"end":639.403,"text":"呃 我想這個其實在中間過程當中有討論是不是請全統委呃 鮑委員如果說高樓層的是就地避難然後低樓層的像地下室來來實施避難這個在 呃 我們在製作的時候警政署啊 內政部啊都有做過相關討論那另外什麼討論 你討論完之後有沒有寫在上面嗎"},{"start":640.123,"end":662.109,"text":"我的意思是說你今天的這個冊子就是要讓大家看了之後包含你的QR Code引導之後沒有任何問題我可以很直接很直覺的我就可以到現場我今天如果是我在附近的一個住戶或者是我附近經過的時候我看到了我下載了這個APP告訴我說這裡有一個地址可以收容1416頁我到了現場我進不去請問該如何是好各位人請您看到第16頁"},{"start":668.646,"end":690.086,"text":"他是針對了 第16頁是針對了天災 他有好幾種太陽包含了地震 土石流 驗射湖 海嘯他都有教民眾求生避難的一個方式我知道 我現在問的就是在防空避難嘛 你跟我講其他的做什麼呢你現在跟我講地震 你16頁寫什麼 你唸給我聽標題"},{"start":693.803,"end":699.866,"text":"你不要這樣糊弄大家喔我跟你講的事情跟你現在講的事情不一樣喔你16月標題寫什麼地震 土石流 海嘯跟颱風我問你的是什麼我問你的是防空警報跟防空避難處所這有一樣嗎"},{"start":710.733,"end":715.7,"text":"我只是跟委員報告不用只是因為你要回答我問你的問題你懂我意思嗎如果我沒有問那你就無需回答那我問了你應該要回答我不能我問你A你答我B這是不對的所以我現在只問你"},{"start":726.233,"end":746.947,"text":"關於防空警報發生的時候民眾不管從他的第7頁警政服務APP或者是他的第23頁吧21頁的消防APP裡面看到了我已上了資訊之後我到了這個地址我真的進得去嗎如果進不去的話他該怎麼辦呢"},{"start":749.161,"end":760.629,"text":"我想這個相關的這些住宅第一個當然要允許他進駐第二個就是說他如果有相關的管理人員的時候呢也要允許他進駐所以這個都要經過相關的演練那對 所以需要演練嘛可是因為現在已經演練好了嘛如果今天現在此時此刻發生了防空避難然後我要到這個大樓就在我們隔壁而已我相信大家都非常清楚是哪一棟我進得去嗎"},{"start":777.06,"end":785.165,"text":"如果進不去的時候我應該要如何跟政府單位聯絡讓我能夠進去因為當下我們應該是有進去的權利因為我們要避難那請問在這個手冊裡面有沒有告訴我們任何的辦法如果今天在政府公開所寫到的私人的避難場所私人住宅大樓的防空避難所進不去的情況之下要跟誰聯絡讓民眾可以進去避難"},{"start":806.239,"end":829.265,"text":"所以我想我們必須要逐步的擴大這樣的演練一直到全區都要能進行演練就是說當防空警報響起的時候這一個被列為這個防空避難設施的就要讓這一個讓這些非住戶的部分的民眾為了避難所需也要能夠進入部長我完全同意您的說法但是這一份是不是很快就要發給大家了預計什麼時候發放"},{"start":836.17,"end":851.647,"text":"包委員 今天會有四題字 沒題字那我覺得呢 有一件事情你們真的要檢討你不能等發放下去 大家都拿到資訊之後你們才來針對這些細節做處置"},{"start":853.809,"end":856.311,"text":"你們 那沒辦法 因為已經要發了嘛那是不是能夠盡快的去把我剛剛講的這些問題能夠來完成 避免大家收到啦真的發生的時候啊 去了現場之後啊 進不去又要在外面跑到別的地方"},{"start":870.7,"end":893.972,"text":"這就變成是這本手冊上面登載的資料跟實際發生的情況不符合也就失去了我們印刷這樣手冊的意義所以我們希望國防部可以針對這些地方再去做努力我大概簡要的跟委員報告一下在我們整個由國安會做這樣跨部會協調的時候大概就是說明第一個 防空避難的指引要逐漸的要方便"},{"start":895.213,"end":920.268,"text":"第二個就是航空避難的能夠容納的這個人數大家要經過精確統計剛剛委員有指教這兩個的系統不一致這個我們也要來下去由前動署跟請官會我們來進行一個協調那第三個當然就是說當航空警報響起的時候如何能夠讓飛助護能夠進去各個航空避難設施這個要經過不斷的演練讓大家都有這樣的意識那包括就是說"},{"start":920.908,"end":932.682,"text":"他有保全人員跟沒有保全人員他應該要怎麼樣的一個作為那最接近你的地方那在聽到防空警報的時候要做什麼樣的處置我想這個都要經過相關的演練那最後因為這個本子就要發了所以呢你們要做的剛才的這一塊你講的我都同意"},{"start":940.831,"end":952.344,"text":"但是因為要發了所以應該要盡快完成否則你會變成你發了一個本子但是實際上面不符合現實的情況那這樣就失去了硬直的意義了所以希望國防部盡快檢討好嗎好 謝謝"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}