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那再做成案子 報到我們經濟部來我們經濟部也就會經過審查 然後再報到行政院去那行政院呢 他通常會交付給國發會做審查那國發會會再問相關部會 包括公共工程委員會他這樣的案子是不是合理那這樣的情況之下 行政院才會核定"},{"start":434.238,"end":450.272,"text":"所以當初是有這樣子一個流程的是不是所以當初你們並沒有發現有福報嗎所以最主要是在中油裡面還是在經濟部"},{"start":452.762,"end":475.089,"text":"是不是委員我做進一步說明好你說那麼剛剛部長所報告呢是針對計劃本身整體計劃的部分那會有經過部啦到國發會啦到院去核定這整體的計劃那至於這個計劃要實施以後對於各項的工程那麼所需要編列的預算去公告招標"},{"start":475.939,"end":495.438,"text":"那這個部分的話是審核就在公司的董事會核定並沒有報到部裡面去了那剛剛部長也提到就是說講得很清楚因為這個工程它是牽涉到很專業所以對我們公司來講必須要委託專業公司來做這個海事工程的一個評估給我們報價"},{"start":496.579,"end":520.922,"text":"那这个过程中会经过公开阅览经过厂商询价最后所定出来的提供给我们是253亿的一个预算公司这边接到253亿以后当然会去复核会去审核这里面所编列的项目的合理性那我们审核的结果是认为是合理的所以经过董事会之后才进行后续的采购"},{"start":521.837,"end":540.447,"text":"好現在民眾最質疑的不是當初你們認為是不是合理的而是到底整體的採購這個發包案到底在成本的合理性上面是不是能夠受公平是不是能夠更有效率的我希望"},{"start":541.087,"end":560.789,"text":"不管是公共工程委員會還是經濟部應該要責成行政院對於所有工程成本的合理性要進行你們要也許成立一個新的單位或是相關的就是跨部會的小組一定要對這個我認為鞏部長你可以提出的"},{"start":562.309,"end":585.799,"text":"因为公共工程委员会它本来就有一个什么项目什么样的工程什么样的成本它有一个range让大家可以依循跟参考那你如果超过这个价格显然那会不会是range go我是说应该你们要有一个成本合理性行政部会要有一个成本合理性的一个公共工程成本合理性的这样子一个组织啊"},{"start":586.559,"end":607.035,"text":"你才能告訴民眾啊不然你們現在根本大家都在懷疑啊不是公眾會就是這個單位啊扮演這樣的角色我知道我是說他們要召開要來說明啊還有我還有第二個問題就是在挪威人這個事件上面那我想請問一下"},{"start":609.272,"end":623.62,"text":"所涉及的因為我們在2022年有修了國家安全法對於商業間諜以及營業秘密外洩有相當就是說程度的規範這個是國家核心關鍵技術項目清單裡面有32項我想要請問部長"},{"start":633.583,"end":659.956,"text":"羅為仁如果把兩奈米以下的排氣墊的技術帶到英特爾去那這涉及到哪一個技術就是技術清單裡面哪一個項目報告委員就是說的確這些清單它的這些項目是我們經濟部來擬定的那當然經過相關的程序是確定下來"},{"start":662.474,"end":677.032,"text":"但是罗一仁拿走什么样的技术这个应该由台积电来认定我们也会配合高检署的调查来做说明他拿走的相关技术是不是符合"},{"start":677.873,"end":703.899,"text":"委員剛剛提到的這個清單裡面如果符合這個國家核心關鍵技術的項目清單的話那他就就是違反了國家安全法是不是有這樣的疑慮對是不是有這樣的疑慮那還是由司法單位來最後的判定那如果他違反了國家安全法的時候我們就要怎麼樣你們會不會要"},{"start":706.744,"end":729.809,"text":"起訴你們要 這個由司法單位才有辦法做決定對我是說你們是不是要去要要要提出 檢調單位跟司法單位才有辦法做那現在司法單位有做進一步的調查嗎 高檢署有開始在調查所以高檢署進行調查 對對對那台積電還沒確定這個我們就不知道因為這是偵查如果需要我們配合的話我們當然就會配合"},{"start":730.009,"end":755.864,"text":"所以你們目前還不瞭解台積電確認這個核心技術外洩的部分是到什麼樣的程度你們不瞭解這個要由公司來說明比較好那你有瞭解他們評估的進度是如何的嗎什麼進度就是他們要查明這個外洩的進度是說高檢署還是台積電"},{"start":758.756,"end":785.227,"text":"因为什么样的秘密泄露出去这个也是属于秘密这个我们还是要尊重台积电对可是我认为你们还是要去了解因为涉及到国家安全的国家安全法的相关规定还有这涉及到现在我们整个就是说半导体要移到美国去的这样子的相关的问题"},{"start":785.887,"end":807.523,"text":"那民眾對於這個相關的到底關鍵技術有沒有外洩以及能不能留下N-1最核心的技術在台灣這都是我們目前民眾所關心的問題我們請部長回去好好跟台積電溝通了解可以嗎可以可以可以好 謝謝好 謝謝"},{"start":814.332,"end":817.819,"text":"接下來我們請陳昌明委員請做詢答 謝謝"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}