{"error":false,"id":["165600"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":165600,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165600","日期":"2025-11-19","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-4-19-11","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第4會期經濟委員會第11次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":4,"會次":11,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[19],"委員會代碼:str":["經濟委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第4會期經濟委員會第11次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2025-11-19T11:08:21+08:00","結束時間":"2025-11-19T11:16:48+08:00","影片長度":"00:08:27","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/9c5448532e3833d10e42b37c57300d2d56e0913f8e9ddf6f45c75d439e1a44ecb67a135d127549fe5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"柯志恩","委員發言時間":"11:08:21 - 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不知出自何處那有沒有任何的部分是出顧五十九十三億是誰人說的啦到底是工程處對口的 口頭的對業者講的還是顧問公司內部的阿不然你為什麼說都是一致的一個數字啊"},{"start":112.461,"end":133.59,"text":"而且最重要的是你如果一開始就說我們從2022年董事會通過就是二五三億阿你不說正在擺物價指數房價相似工程單價等你都講這些所以你難怪會被質疑到你是不是刻意不提不提那個早期招標的歷史是不是避重就輕嘛這是你的回應讓大家衍生出更多的問題當主定啊"},{"start":135.805,"end":141.252,"text":"我們在新聞稿呈現的就是講從頭到尾就是2531但是你看有這麼多94億一路過來這個東西指標性你看那個歷屆的一個數字你看941221 150億到22到253沒有這些數字"},{"start":151.505,"end":178.519,"text":"所以說你從頭到尾就是鎖定253嘛好那這個部分你要做更清楚253從頭到尾不要再去講一些其他的指數什麼什麼的那就額外都是延伸正義啦好不好當鎖定這個很重要啦那我們再來比較一些這個官堂外推的防波體喔你跟印度當然大家會講說這個比數上是差距很大5倍的價值差你當然會告訴我們說兩岸的工法不一樣啦地質波浪施工難度也都不一樣"},{"start":179.139,"end":189.156,"text":"但是五倍同樣是同樣的一個距離卻是五倍的價錢終於要在這一點上面除了你告訴我公法跟其他根本做的不一樣你會不會需要再被澄清的"},{"start":190.695,"end":219.329,"text":"我今天看到委員提出這個案例我們當然會去做比對不過就工程本身來講你在不同的地點不同的環境好 那我就告訴你所以這個部分五倍單位的造價的差距你必須要給我完整我要求每一公尺的造價分析每一座城鄉的單價還有混凝土剛才海市脫工的單價拆解還有完整工程量的計算表麻煩你送一份到我這邊過來我們這邊也有專家可以一一來去做一個"},{"start":220.109,"end":236.041,"text":"比對可以嗎可以好這個部分是因為在印度的部分裡面這的確是同樣的距離你們的單價卻比別人還要高還有這是剛剛不管是每一個委員都會特別提到的這個大家就提到這個150的為什麼會暴增305億我真的還是要從你們這邊聽出來因為你從頭到尾大家就是在時間軸的問題你2021年5月你就已經把三居預算從660提到9652021你就已經鎖定了"},{"start":248.311,"end":276.49,"text":"2022在這個預算書上面你們還是660億的版本所以難怪人家會說阿里咱家公2021就知道增加305億那為什麼在2022年的時候你硬要說只增加150305跟150億就會有一個落差明明就知道所以難怪人家會說那你是不是送給我們是660億那你中間的落差你們早就先絕標你這個時間如果沒有講清楚你就還是會被困在這裡我保證從頭到尾大家都只會問這個問題"},{"start":277.671,"end":285.729,"text":"那你們統一的說法是什麼當時講150億是講的跟外推直接相關的部分是150億"},{"start":287.421,"end":304.559,"text":"但是你提修正計畫的時候也要根據當時的一些情境有別的因素一起納進去但是你在2025月的第三次修正計畫就寫965億你當然會知道那怎麼還敢講只有150億呢你那時候就這個落差我在問你這個問題啊我們在112年的預算書啊已經呈現了"},{"start":307.842,"end":324.454,"text":"是所以說我覺得這個矛盾點好不好都已經知道增加了那你要強調外推你卻是150你對外說法是所以人家就會說你是計畫未修正不得先決標就是程序跟時間軸的問題你必須要把它釐定清楚"},{"start":325.354,"end":344.122,"text":"這才是一個重點就一直耗在這個地方部長你說對不對從剛剛到現在就在這數字跟時間所上你們有辦法兜在一起嗎所有公司會對外更大的說明就是到965億事實上他所增加預算305億不只是外推而已他還有其他的加進去的"},{"start":344.562,"end":357.588,"text":"那你如果知道是305億的話你就不需要不需要再過去一直強調你中間有個落差我還是強調這個部分什麼時候要核定什麼要去做我在告訴你如何旁邊曾經同樣的問題然後回答同樣問題完全沒有辦法鬥解最後一個主席給我一分鐘時間問到我們永安LNG的這個組長目前到底是如何我覺得這個目前不然"},{"start":366.272,"end":391.847,"text":"三座的地下型的薄墨式的儲槽二四一七不夠 雖然擺成兩座變成二八九然後呢也獲得同意但是呢目前為止我們五七這是我們各鄉啊英安是我們各鄉啊金馬哥又在流標然後呢替代方案研究案都是五次公告才決標那這些都是未來可能會發生的狀況這是我們鄉親大家做玩樂欸然後我就是最後一個我真的要問永遠都是你看"},{"start":393.388,"end":423.088,"text":"当属定啊你看原来247亿改了28亿然后两座然后到底有没有同步来调整期程跟预算的目标然后目前都处在高负载那我们五期的延宕会不会造成我们供气的一个风险最重要就是我刚刚所呈现出来预算低估流标补预算再流标计划再修正时间延宕能源风险提高这个已经变成是我们所有在咨询里面所有的SOP的前面一张那这个部分未来要怎么办呢"},{"start":423.928,"end":447.576,"text":"對不對 這哪個 我就把它歸納成都是這個樣子啊這個部分的話 永遠都是如果這樣子的話都是流標 然後再補預算 再修正 然後阿你 大家都問的都是這個 對不對是 報告委員 我做說明永安五期呢 它關鍵是在於永安五期啊 它的儲槽是地下室的我知道 我知道那麼由於地下室的儲槽呢 現在是沒有市場"},{"start":448.666,"end":473.945,"text":"真正要去做的話他需要一做除潮要花時間非常花的那個金額非常大因此我們希望的是改地上潮地上潮其實鄉親就會非常焦慮你知道地上潮擺在那邊具體的東西擺在那邊大家就很高興所以說我們還要去跟居民去溝通你要好好溝通除潮的部分有延後的部分我們就是在期間週期接受在那邊"},{"start":474.445,"end":503.985,"text":"你必須要跟居民好好的溝通因為造成非常居民的恐慌但是我還是強調低估流標補預算流標計畫修正這個的部分你可以把它縮短一次就到位否則永遠都是在時間軸在預算在補件永遠都還是會降低了中游對社會觀感還有很大的一個信任度好不好這個是董事長要帶回去這個數字時程一出手精準好不好還是強調你的永安的這個部分還是要跟我們鄉親多溝通好"},{"start":505.613,"end":505.633,"text":"好 謝謝"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}