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11:55:29","會議時間":"2025-11-19T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期財政、內政、經濟、交通、社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：審查行政院函請審議「中央政府花蓮馬太鞍溪堰塞湖災後重建特別預算案」。\n【預算提案截止時間：11月18日（二）下午3時】\n【11月19日及20日二天一次會】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5.549093750000001,"end":8.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8.485343750000002,"end":10.62846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19.90971875,"end":20.80409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21.394718750000003,"end":48.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":48.49596875,"end":56.072843750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":57.017843750000004,"end":58.384718750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":58.907843750000005,"end":69.01596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":69.33659375,"end":71.10846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":71.37846875000001,"end":74.60159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":73.25159375,"end":73.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":75.27659375,"end":78.26346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":78.61784375,"end":80.49096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":80.86221875000001,"end":82.78596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":83.17409375000001,"end":86.27909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":86.61659375,"end":89.24909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":89.70471875000001,"end":91.79721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":92.26971875000001,"end":95.20596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":95.45909375000001,"end":97.68659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":97.97346875000001,"end":100.28534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":98.73284375,"end":100.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":100.38659375,"end":102.56346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":103.35659375,"end":106.41096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":106.81596875000001,"end":114.39284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":107.32221875,"end":108.52034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":111.40596875000001,"end":111.65909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":114.27471875,"end":124.56846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":117.48096875,"end":117.93659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":119.30346875000001,"end":121.48034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":123.62346875,"end":150.40409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":150.57284375,"end":152.29409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":152.54721875,"end":161.65971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":160.68096875,"end":163.81971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":164.25846875000002,"end":165.47346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":166.38471875000002,"end":179.61471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":180.49221875,"end":184.84596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":182.46659375000002,"end":184.82909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":184.84596875000003,"end":191.78159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":190.80284375000002,"end":194.12721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":194.12721875000003,"end":195.03846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":195.03846875000002,"end":197.56971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":197.80596875,"end":204.87659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":199.20659375000002,"end":199.89846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":203.22284375,"end":210.29346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":206.37846875000002,"end":206.76659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":208.69034375,"end":213.41534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":214.46159375000002,"end":223.32096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":223.70909375000002,"end":230.71221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":231.16784375,"end":233.56409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":233.85096875000002,"end":241.49534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":240.63471875000002,"end":242.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":242.96346875,"end":254.10096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":243.08159375000002,"end":244.51596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":251.97471875000002,"end":258.45471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":259.06221875,"end":272.00534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":269.79471875,"end":271.39784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":271.95471875000004,"end":272.32596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":273.15284375000005,"end":273.91221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":274.50284375,"end":276.96659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":276.96659375,"end":297.09846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":298.34721875,"end":299.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":299.03909375,"end":305.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":302.63346875,"end":303.73034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":305.97471875,"end":311.10471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":306.98721875,"end":307.86471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":311.37471875,"end":325.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":312.21846875,"end":313.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":326.30909375000005,"end":328.72221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":326.34284375000004,"end":327.96284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":329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來 劉部長"},{"start":103.408,"end":122.862,"text":"你們現在我看到就是推來推去啦就是明明在院會答應的是竹偉寧啊你本人答應的啊那你現在說是內政部內政部又說不是他這個錢不會是工程會出啦就是說因為那整個是你內政部的整個不是你主持嗎相公所的相公所他有上他的資助"},{"start":124.003,"end":151.578,"text":"這個主委你整個特別預算有600億最後立法院還加碼給你你還有二倍金還有30億結果一個嘉義縣這麼財政困窘的地方一個異族鄉老人人口第一名的地方他那麼破落的一個中正堂在這次重建裡面要經費要提計劃結果工程會推給內政部內政部也說不是他那他真的是求助無門啊"},{"start":152.771,"end":179.247,"text":"工程會是中整整個特別預算啦是主管機關那這個主管機關底下有內政部有經濟部有農業部所以你認為這件事要找內政部對不對來 部長 劉部長是你要負責嗎報告王委員 委員關心多次啦那我們現在就是想辦法要來解決這個問題那剛剛那個陳主委講的沒有錯沒有在特別條例裡面我們想要從特別統籌分配款裡面來處理看看"},{"start":180.543,"end":184.725,"text":"好 所以你會積極來研議嗎因為它真的是很弱勢的一個鄉鎮也就是說如果說它是報災休那在特同的話可能不在特別預算的範圍內那你說你可以另外有計畫可以協助它嗎就是我剛剛跟您報告了就是用災休的方式來處理"},{"start":197.87,"end":213.226,"text":"因為他真的是很困窘 單一線財政很困難而且異族鄉又是老年人口我了解 所以我剛剛講說我們來解決問題那就用特等的方式 但是因為災修到底經費多少你大概什麼時候可以讓本席知道你們提出解決的方案 大概多久"},{"start":214.662,"end":237.595,"text":"報告委員是這樣通常各鄉鎮公所如果像這種40年以上房子會老舊不堪它本來就一定程序可以請縣政府請內政部來申請補助是重建我們特別條例處理的是災損不會包括整個重建如果說有哪裡需要修繕等等如果看起來是一個老舊的鄉公所"},{"start":241.017,"end":258.257,"text":"對 然後風災又再次受損 它是雙重的我是跟委員報告 如果重建的話要循這個內政的程序由內政部在本預算裡面來協助重建好 那你們兩位可不可以答覆我大概一個月之內可不可以提出一個如何解決的方案"},{"start":259.093,"end":265.737,"text":"我認為如果是重建的話就要循正常程序由嘉義縣政府或鄉公所提報內政部來看哪一年度的預算可以那個部長"},{"start":274.702,"end":296.932,"text":"這件事情你大概多久可以給一個解決的方案報告委員就是剛剛那個主委所提到的不管是一族鄉公所或者是嘉義縣政府我們建議是用災修除非說建物完全是不安全如果災修的話我們會盡快用特統的方式來處理因為到目前為止我們還沒有看到他們提報上來工業會刊多次我也了解其中的進度"},{"start":298.873,"end":325.39,"text":"所以現在聽起來是工程會推給內政部說重建就是你們你們說你們只願意災修不是 報告委員我想是這樣子重建確實比較曠日廢時那災修就是說但它真的很老舊了對 但是災修如果是無虞那個在建物安全無虞的狀況之下災修會比較快但你們上次去會堪你們也覺得應該是要重建我現在署長告訴我們的是可以走災修"},{"start":327.072,"end":349.87,"text":"但是如果重建會比較晚我想您大概了解整個的工程本來就是進度就是這樣子我希望這件事我們不要忽略最弱勢的地方下一頁我要問一個就是現在內政部的補助標準你們現在是取消活動中心取消消防隊的興建取消興建的避難建築這些你們通通都要取消嗎都不補助嗎因為加一線"},{"start":350.731,"end":372.258,"text":"他們梅山鄉有一個太平他們要建一個新的消防的封鎖然後內政部的回應說我們現在通通一律都不補助了有這回事嗎那你們補助社團最新的你們新增加的預算要補助民間的這些宗教組織等等你們增加了三億那這麼關鍵的消防設施你們說沒有錢"},{"start":373.078,"end":387.15,"text":"有這回事嗎我想不是這樣子第一個 前瞻預算已經結束了那前瞻預算如果結束的話有些補助當然就不見了那個這個是大家都了解的那消防的部分你們就都不補助了嗎一律所有的分所你們都沒有錢"},{"start":388.231,"end":410.331,"text":"各縣市一個都不會增第一個地方縣市政府他們提報上來我們是按照中央跟地方的這個補助的方案來處理沒有所謂的取消不取消的問題但是所以沒有全面取消嗎我要知道是沒有全面取消嗎對不對要看狀況因為那個委員所提的部分他是一個什麼建設活動中心這些我們不曉得真正的項目在哪裡所以我們可能要看狀況而定"},{"start":411.152,"end":431.48,"text":"我只是要確認部長你的原則並沒有取消所有的補助報告委員在我們內政部裡面不管是有計畫或者是沒有計畫或是任何其他的補助辦法我們的辦法到目前為止沒有更改過任何一個字所以可以提上來你們再評估吧如果立法院的前瞻預算取消我們當然就沒有啦這個我想委員非常的清楚"},{"start":431.84,"end":450.583,"text":"對啊 例行性的這些消防的分隊的建制一樣可以提計畫不只這些硬體的建設包括委員所提到人民團體的部分也是一樣我們所謂人民團體的補助都是按照原來慣例上面的補助辦法從來沒有改變過任何事情所以外面的傳言我是覺得應該請國民幫忙處理是不是還是可以提計畫"},{"start":452.878,"end":477.837,"text":"要看您是哪一項計畫所以還是可以提上我剛剛就跟你說消防隊分數如果有預算的來源的話我們當然會按照那個標準的作業程序來處理好我希望這個該補助的地方重要的基礎建設政府不能省但是你們不要把一些省下來的錢去補助不需要錦上添花的地方這個是一個很重要的原則弱勢優先永遠是最重要的原則好不好謝謝"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}