{"error":false,"id":["165618"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":165618,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165618","日期":"2025-11-19","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"聯席會議-11-4-26,36-1","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議","屆":11,"會期":4,"會次":1,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"聯席會議","委員會代碼":[26,36],"委員會代碼:str":["社會福利及衛生環境委員會","司法及法制委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2025-11-19T11:33:10+08:00","結束時間":"2025-11-19T11:42:32+08:00","影片長度":"00:09:22","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/9c5448532e3833d1549e5a057b7863080799e8a58cec5c3e90886039ce1be0fd5ac28ab4a5ca17635ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"吳思瑤","委員發言時間":"11:33:10 - 11:42:32","會議時間":"2025-11-19T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：審查\n一、委員葉元之等18人擬具「家庭暴力防治法第六十條條文修正草案」案。\n二、委員王育敏等16人擬具「家庭暴力防治法部分條文修正草案」案。\n三、委員邱鎮軍等18人擬具「家庭暴力防治法部分條文修正草案」案。\n四、委員蘇清泉等18人擬具「家庭暴力防治法第三十一條條文修正草案」案。\n五、委員廖先翔等22人擬具「家庭暴力防治法部分條文修正草案」案。\n六、委員郭昱晴等17人擬具「家庭暴力防治法部分條文修正草案」案。\n七、委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「家庭暴力防治法第三十一條條文修正草案」案。\n八、委員廖偉翔等16人擬具「家庭暴力防治法第三十一條條文修正草案」案。\n【第八案如經復議，則不予審查】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4.97534375,"end":6.544718750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7.152218750000001,"end":7.810343750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7.87784375,"end":12.231593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12.73784375,"end":13.615343750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12.957218750000003,"end":14.037218750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18.37409375,"end":19.70721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":20.297843750000002,"end":24.73596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":27.402218750000003,"end":31.772843750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":32.63346875,"end":37.392218750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":37.54409375,"end":61.118468750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":61.38846875,"end":62.21534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":62.65409375,"end":71.63159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":72.37409375,"end":73.35284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":73.47096875,"end":75.71534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":75.96846875,"end":80.33909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":80.60909375,"end":104.55471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":104.80784375,"end":127.25159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":127.75784375,"end":130.54221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":130.94721875000002,"end":161.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":162.19971875000002,"end":169.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":170.04659375,"end":177.37034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":177.89346875,"end":193.92471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":186.75284375,"end":186.80346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":194.48159375,"end":202.53096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":203.12159375000002,"end":214.81596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":215.37284375000002,"end":258.26909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":258.48846875000004,"end":261.00284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":261.64409375,"end":267.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":267.60096875,"end":285.26909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":285.82596875,"end":294.06096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":294.61784375,"end":297.06471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":298.11096875000004,"end":298.85346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":299.69721875000005,"end":303.10596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":303.94971875000005,"end":305.02971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":305.24909375000004,"end":306.81846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":307.59471875,"end":309.56909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":310.32846875,"end":313.43346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":313.80471875,"end":315.18846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":315.69471875,"end":320.75721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":321.26346875,"end":340.48409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":340.99034375,"end":360.41346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":360.78471875,"end":372.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":373.40721875,"end":386.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":387.34596875,"end":405.23346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":405.79034375000003,"end":407.73096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":408.08534375000005,"end":442.86471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":443.64096875,"end":448.73721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":449.74971875000006,"end":455.31846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":455.62221875,"end":460.29659375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":460.46534375000005,"end":485.05221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":485.38971875000004,"end":492.94971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":493.25346875,"end":517.23284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":497.82659375000003,"end":498.38346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":500.22284375000004,"end":500.61096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":501.23534375,"end":501.57284375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":515.8659687500001,"end":518.32971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":518.65034375,"end":520.4053437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":520.4053437499999,"end":520.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":520.55721875,"end":523.96596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":520.86096875,"end":532.0490937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":532.43721875,"end":542.7140937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":539.57534375,"end":557.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":551.13471875,"end":551.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":551.4553437500001,"end":551.55659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":556.6697187500001,"end":558.7453437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":561.96846875,"end":562.4409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請石部長請中廳長然後法務部檢察司張司長還有李副署長部長辛苦了有一句話說亂世用重點亂世用重點下一句是什麼"},{"start":27.666,"end":43.579,"text":"我已經寫在上面了攻心才是上策亂世用重點是不是有絕對的效益我剛剛正從司法法治委員會氣喘吁吁的趕來因為司法法治委員會今天有個主題"},{"start":44.58,"end":69.9,"text":"就是防治詐騙其實是全民共識甚至詐騙的犯罪是全球的公敵全球都在面對這個嚴峻的司法案件的挑戰我們要有效的去前端預防跟後端的懲治但是如果用邊形啊今天司法法治委員會的主題是說要不要學新加坡把詐騙也納入邊形"},{"start":72.923,"end":100.942,"text":"來執行我剛剛秀了一個PVT新加坡用邊形現在是要擴大把詐騙納入邊形台灣是不是要學是今天有立委的倡議但是我們來看新加坡這個國家他用邊形很久邊形這個制度從英國殖民時期留下來或者是一些回教國家他們有他們宗教的因素他們持續沿用現在的先進國家是很少在使用因為他違反了國際的人權公約"},{"start":102.023,"end":129.796,"text":"但是如果說邊形是有用的話其實新加坡在國際的治安安全數安全評比裡頭其實台灣的成績是優於新加坡的台灣第四新加坡全球第十所以我說亂世用重點有用嗎或是甚至因此在要趕快懲罰犯罪的前提之下就去亂世用亂點我認為讓人權走回頭路這是不應該的"},{"start":131.056,"end":145.601,"text":"所以我從司法法治委員會這個時空跳到這裡來當然我們今天在衛華委員會討論的是科技設備的監控要不要擴大用在防治家暴的案例我認為當然都有同樣的面向我們要一起去思考"},{"start":146.341,"end":161.368,"text":"乱世用重点有效吗公心才是上策有效的诊断犯罪者的心理有效的在前端预防才是我们讨论政策更严谨更系统性的一个切入点本期是这样认为下一页"},{"start":162.268,"end":177.035,"text":"所以說我們來看看大家都防治家暴家暴法到今年應該是27年嗎所以呢你們前陣子也開了一個擴大的跨部會會議希望能夠更精進相關的作為那防治家暴"},{"start":177.975,"end":193.673,"text":"我在司法法治委員會也提過很多次事前的防範應當優於事後的重罰或者是兩者要並重不能夠簡化為某一端比較重要天平要保持平衡甚至我認為前端的預防更為重要"},{"start":194.554,"end":212.791,"text":"那我們以保護令這件事情我們對不起我們先來講這個家暴案類法務部或是司法院在這裡家暴這10年的案件的統計裁定人數如果我有誤你們可以糾正有罪判決是68%"},{"start":215.473,"end":235.044,"text":"而有罪判決當中是判拘役就是相對比較輕的是佔了41%左右6個月以下刑期16%6個月以上比較重的是8.83%另外還有無罪跟不受理不受理還高達27%換言之以這個具體的統計數字告訴我們"},{"start":241.528,"end":266.763,"text":"家暴大家深厚誤覺但是以判決的結果告訴我們他多數不會是到很重很重很危險的重要重大的傷害所以這是用判刑的結果來說當然有極端個案也就是我們今天大家討論土城的個案那真的是讓大家非常的痛心疾首我們的保護令就差那個最後一步"},{"start":267.683,"end":295.702,"text":"但是我們在看待所有的案件都還是要回到憲法的比例原則我們還是要符合罪行相當的原則我們還不還是不能去預約了適當性的原則這個目的跟手段之間我們是人權國家所以說極端個案給了我們很多的警訊警示但是也不要因為極端個案去採取了限缺周延討論的"},{"start":298.444,"end":306.591,"text":"執法的的這些approach這些方式所以說下一頁我們來看看保護令"},{"start":307.645,"end":334.457,"text":"保護令非萬能就以土城這個案例他真的不是萬能就差那最後一步但是就實際的執行保護令是相對有效的我以這位王佩玲教授也是他的這個報告是衛福部到現在你們在討論所有的保護令參採的最大宗的一個實證的研究因為他是規模比較大"},{"start":335.077,"end":359.945,"text":"追蹤的時間比較長但我要提醒石部長這是2010年的報告啊到現在為止我們需要更新的更全面的實證研究來support我們對於家暴案類的一些政策的考量這個實在太久了啦但是以目前大家參採的這個主要的報告告訴我們施暴者整體違反保護令的比例是四成"},{"start":360.865,"end":372.204,"text":"而違反保護令當中又發生了肢體暴力的比例是19%這跟國際是差不多的換言之我的解讀保護令相對有效"},{"start":373.444,"end":391.26,"text":"但是極端個案當然要慎防但是這個報告更有效的告訴我們的資訊是對於那些高風險的施暴者要強化配套這才是重中之重土城這個案例就是高風險的施暴者就是他有犯罪前科他有精神疾病"},{"start":392.06,"end":407.382,"text":"對於被害人他施以曾經是性暴力脅迫控制跟跟蹤等等這些高風險的這些人你相對可以更精準的去鎖定他這才是我們該去下手的地方下一頁時間到了所以我"},{"start":408.163,"end":423.492,"text":"最後給石部長統合回應也就是我對於啟動科技設備的監控從過去我們是犯罪保全證據保全的那一個方法要擴大到前端的保護加害者我認為權衡上還是要慎重"},{"start":426.914,"end":448.477,"text":"保護加害者絕對要擴大但是我認為的方法是剛剛我說的實證以及研究告訴我們鎖定這些高風險的再次施暴者才是最重要的防範的核心所以不要輕易的去讓人權走回頭路因為不只是"},{"start":449.867,"end":466.189,"text":"防範加害者再次施暴更要保護受害者他的隱私跟他的自由權限至於其他的執行要有相關的法律要件的限制執行層面到底是衛福部可以做還是警政署來當家還是法務部還是司法院"},{"start":466.75,"end":484.652,"text":"到現在末中已是所以我很謝謝主席我聽說應當會有公聽會在周延的討論那我請部長統和的回應一下我剛剛的評論我們對於高風險者的管控如何有效的精準的target這些人"},{"start":485.693,"end":511.773,"text":"跟委員這個很謝謝委員的指教那確實在這個我們為什麼需要點時間再來這個這個立法因為這個立法的過程一定要考慮到比例原則他的必要性適當性跟橫平性原則一定要遵守而且還要考量到實務上的執行性可行性怎麼樣所以我們在後續的這個修法的過程當中都會秉持這個原則來審慎的研議"},{"start":513.454,"end":531.909,"text":"特別是涉及到影響到人民權益那我剛剛講的高風險的這一群人的有效的防範是你們現在就能做而且應該優先做的我們現在針對的也是這樣我們現在在做的就是先針對在評估的時候那個高風險的評估要讓他能夠更精確更準確的可以"},{"start":532.609,"end":558.305,"text":"及早的去辨識出那個高風險的個案然後去針對這些去強化不論是強化暫時性保護就是不漏接辨識出這些人存在於哪裡他的行動然後有效的保護加害人我認為這樣問題釐清下來相對執行面就有比較清楚的方向好時間有限那我非常期待後續的公聽會我也會踴躍的參加謝謝主席謝謝大家辛苦了謝謝吳世耀我有發言"},{"start":561.965,"end":561.985,"text":"有請"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}