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主委你好我們曾經是立法院的同事希望我們今天的對談能夠幫我們花蓮的尤其是萬榮鄉的族人"},{"start":44.673,"end":70.961,"text":"能够解决他们的困境好吗谢谢那个连续两次艳色湖重大灾害主委您也是我们重建特别条例的主管机干你是不是亲自有去过被洪水灌入的名利村河段来听取我们主任的意见我去过三次其中最长就这个一站式服务站在那边待了八天"},{"start":72.304,"end":99.239,"text":"好 那你看到了什么问题就是简短的说好吗 因为我们今天时间有限你觉得最重要的问题是什么就是两个字 就很严重了好 很严重我刚刚就已经说了工程会是灾害复建的主管机关我要请问您最近这四年我们政府在公寓预算投入所谓的灾后重建的合订经费个是多少"},{"start":99.799,"end":107.185,"text":"我列了大概四年您看一下因為我時間有限2021年79億2022年77億2023年120億2024年259億這個數字代表什麼主委因為這幾年剛好這是公務預算喔這幾年剛好都不在政府部門您看到這個數據以你的專業來說你看到了什麼"},{"start":125.433,"end":139.98,"text":"是不是連年災害特別的多了是逐漸增加好 謝謝然後我們看到這些災後重建的預算是每一年工程會針對大大小小的災害所核定的預算"},{"start":140.78,"end":157.171,"text":"那麼我們可以知道一般災害復建它主要是針對個別災害是由中央補助地方政府來執行對吧沒錯就是針對公共設施對那我們今天要審查的馬太安特別條例的預算"},{"start":158.892,"end":186.863,"text":"是因為馬太安溪的災害的規模非常的龐大而且他是複合性的災害類型所以呢在特別條例裡面我們讓公共工程委員會作為這個條例的主管機關重點是要來整合整個災區的訴求還有制定標準然後讓我們各個部會他在執行預算的時候能夠有所依據對不對主委對"},{"start":188.423,"end":206.622,"text":"好 那麼我現在要提到我的重點了當九月份光復爆發災情的時候當時呢 針對萬榮鄉名利村的堤防破口你們在報告裡面提到你們叫做開口堤"},{"start":207.663,"end":227.934,"text":"然而在7月份的時候我們的村長我們的鄉長在災防匯報的時候都提醒了水利署你們必須要去處理這件事情然而指揮官暨政委他也指示水利署你們要趕快的去處理"},{"start":229.174,"end":243.787,"text":"結果呢七月份到九月份兩個月過去了而我的名利村的村民得到的是什麼水淹家園水利署你們一時的疏忽造成了我們水利署長的道歉"},{"start":244.963,"end":273.551,"text":"我不僅僅要提這個 我更要提的是我們的政府對原鄉的河川的治理標準是不一樣的 也非常的不公平我們在都會區 當我們進入到河川的區域工程上的名稱是用所謂的水門 還有越堤道路可是在偏鄉 在我們原鄉你們設計用臨時性的太空包去堵住開口堤"},{"start":275.303,"end":291.859,"text":"標準兩套而生命兩等這對我們的族人來說是情何以看這事情啊馬太安的艷澀湖還在我相信在場的專業的人你們都清楚知道河床的水位因為"},{"start":293.22,"end":310.893,"text":"雨的大小它會升高多少這些是必須要經過專業的計算還有持續的追蹤然而潛在的災害風險也不斷的提醒在場的公部門的行政單位尤其是水利署"},{"start":312.216,"end":331.614,"text":"而你們該有所作為而不作為這造成了我名利村的村民財產的嚴重的損失然而國家賠償法第三條明定請大家聽一下公共設施管理有欠缺人民財產受損國家應該要負賠償的責任"},{"start":337.94,"end":355.973,"text":"萬榮鄉的鄉長 名利村的村長多次的告訴我們的政府然後中央指揮官也已經交辦你們要去處理了結果我們的執行單位草率的處置這就是明顯的管理欠缺"},{"start":356.914,"end":373.435,"text":"但是與其讓我們的災民要跟我們的政府打非常冗長的國賠我認為不如現在就由我們的政府主動來承擔讓我們一起在本條例有具體的補救方法可以嗎 主委"},{"start":374.645,"end":378.41,"text":"報告委員 因為萬榮鄉民意村的災損是延續馬太安溪相關的災損我了解啊 所以7月份的時候我們的鄉長 我們的村長就跟了紀政委"},{"start":389.386,"end":415.915,"text":"就說了必須要趕快去堵住那個缺口七月份談沒有做一直到九月份才去弄太空包以致造成了這麼大的嚴重所以他的相關衛助復原是比照原來光復鄉跟鳳林的少數幾個村的標準一樣進行衛助也就是如果有煙的主委你不要再跟我這邊在談這個我現在要跟你談的是更嚴重"},{"start":419.571,"end":448.53,"text":"召委麻煩再給我一點時間我必須要闡述一下我們災民的心聲還要釐清尤其我們今天下午就要審預算了好所以呢主委我的重點是在說與其讓我們的族人去打一個冗長的國賠倒不如現在已經有這個特別條例了我們能不能夠在這個特別條例裡面好好的聽好好的撫慰我們的災民的心情可以嗎"},{"start":449.23,"end":472.47,"text":"報告委員如果是國賠的話公務人要有疏失的責任我沒有跟你講國賠主委我說我們與其打國賠太冗長現在有特別條例我們好好的來談這件事情好不好這部分我請水利署還有經濟部次長來跟你說好我要跟你講不必他們說明您是主管機關我要跟你談的是第一件事情"},{"start":473.772,"end":498.139,"text":"也是我到現場去我們的族人還有災民我們的災民即使農民也是災民他跟我反映的有關原住民房舍的賠償應該要包含臨時性的建物所以呢我在這裡要求你們必須要從寬認定必須要加速辦理而從寬認定有幾個建議主委聽一下有三個第一個"},{"start":499.119,"end":521.733,"text":"有基礎資料的時候呢我們以戶籍為認定的依據然後第二個如果資料不足的我們就用航照圖來搭配相公所所謂的士林證明來做佐證第三個現地如果可以看到地基樑柱這些殘跡的我們就視為實際居住的證明可以嗎"},{"start":522.193,"end":538.734,"text":"我跟委員報告我們是針對居住的戶長進行相關的衛助那放得很寬只要實際居住有災損的證明就可以實際居住跟災損證明完全由村長可以認定好所以以上我講的這個方塊認定你都同意"},{"start":539.355,"end":563.463,"text":"就是我们有两个要件实际居住还有你刚刚有没有听我讲的啊主委有基础资料者以户籍认定依据如果资料不足的话用航照图搭配相公所士林证明佐证如果现地可以看得到地基良处的他也可以这个我们当然可以当作他有居住的事实甘有户籍但是我们是深"},{"start":563.903,"end":593.019,"text":"不要浪費我那麼多的時間主委現在我跟你講的都是非常具體你說OK就OK了嘛其實我們兩個談論是一樣的問題好嗎另外我們來談一下學校的部分災區的學校我們三讀通過的特別條例是包含了學校幼兒園的重建但是我們看到行政院這次在分配特別預算給各個部會去執行預算的時候沒有編給教育部教育部你可以上台來一下"},{"start":593.68,"end":609.102,"text":"然後所以讓我們的教育部我們學校他只能夠用自己的公務預算去支應主委你認為合理嗎這個是教育部主動表示他本預算可以處理像那個關乎工商等這些學校問題所以主動要求"},{"start":610.003,"end":633.615,"text":"不納入這個特別預算但是我們的三讀通過的特別條例有包含學校跟幼兒園的重建喔對 我們特別預算是根據特別條例來編的嘛那教育部他本身表示不需要嘛好 不需要所以他要用他的公務預算去他用他的公務預算主委你知道嗎今天沒有教育部來但是我要特別的強調的是公務預算它會影響到其他的"},{"start":634.395,"end":649.189,"text":"而我們說的特別條例它是指定災害的所以教育部這麼做是錯誤的我會再回到教育部要求他們並且我要要求主委這件事情您必須要思考繼續我要來談到的是公部門的橫向聯繫的重要性來 原民會的主委你可以上來有關原住民經濟產業還有部落農特產品的重建"},{"start":659.179,"end":676.47,"text":"原民會主責的是推廣但是呢他並不包含產業重建需要的設施設備然而我們經濟部的產發署經濟部也可以上來一下你們有關重建產業的設施設備你們是有補助的所以主委"},{"start":677.29,"end":701.725,"text":"本條例不受預算法第62條的規定也就是說各機關還有計畫或業務的科目你們是可以互相留用的所以主委還有我們的陳主委原民會跟經濟部應該成立跨部會推動工作小組來協助我們原住民的產業還有部落產業提供有效的診斷輔導還有修復設施的設備兩位主委同意嗎可以"},{"start":708.325,"end":723.56,"text":"可以有會協調 相關部會謝謝 以上我提到的這些還有接下來不好意思招募真的再給我一點時間因為我是災區的立法委員我也是原住民的立委因為有太多重要的事情需要在這邊理清楚"},{"start":724.281,"end":750.068,"text":"好以上我提的這幾個我請各全責機關用一個書面的完整的回覆給我另外我還有幾個要求第一個我希望我們的這個災後重建主管單位你們可以設置重建單一的服務窗口然後來整合所有部會的資源同時呢要優先進行我們災民的心理的諮商還有中長期的復原生計計劃可以嗎這一個"},{"start":752.625,"end":772.661,"text":"這方面都有編列相關預算好 第二個我只要是在我原住民地區請你們遵守原住民基本法涉及原住民21條諮商同意事項還有其他公務事項要你們實質來尊重部落會議的決議跟在地的知識可以嗎"},{"start":774.284,"end":799.613,"text":"原住民基本法會遵守就相關開發行為當然會要資商來第三個我希望資訊能夠透明化請提供特別預算還有我們公務預算的相關的分工還有規劃的期程以及進度並且要公告上網重點的事項每日要更新方便國會還有人民的監督這樣也可以嗎"},{"start":799.873,"end":814.18,"text":"我們會提供特別條例跟相關資訊最後我要講的是我的心聲花蓮從去年0403的地震到最近兩次的晏色湖的事件在這裡我要痛心的說民進黨政府"},{"start":815.373,"end":838.002,"text":"你們對於地震之後的地形變化九月颱風季節後艷澀湖的危機你們根本就沒有心要預防你們只知道大罷免然後一直沉溺於政治鬥爭政府這種對花蓮人民特別是我的原住民的族人生命財產的無視你們必須要負起全部的責任"},{"start":839.022,"end":865.379,"text":"也希望我們的政府尤其是民進黨的政府能夠在這一次的危機覺醒回到國事好好做事一起為這塊土地的人民好好做事我相信以上我提的這些全部都是全民的心聲回復到國政好好做事不要再政治惡鬥了吧謝謝好 謝謝高津素美委員"},{"start":869.372,"end":871.441,"text":"接下来我们请袁宽恒委员咨询"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}