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沒關係 我們先開始這個 我們還是回到今天"},{"start":26.99,"end":52.618,"text":"質詢的主題啦就是有關於花蓮馬太安溪的一些後續的一些處遇跟機制上的一些調整今天跟幾位首長來做就教現在馬太安溪到底安不安全其實也很難講對不對因為這個東部的地質本來就比較敏感加上颱風侵襲的狀況本來就比較頻繁加上這個堰塞湖潰堤之後它本來地質就處於一個高度不穩定的狀態比如說前一段時間這個便道又被淹沒嘛溪水暴漲"},{"start":54.498,"end":77.606,"text":"幾乎是以命相搏是很危險的一個狀況那我想請問一下因為一次找你們三家來就是核心的問題就是我們待會要討論一下未來針對驗射壺到底要事權要不要統一那我們就幾個問題第一個我們以現在花蓮馬太安溪附近的狀況還有沒有形成新的驗射壺的可能我們現在能不能講說花蓮的光復箱已經脫離了危險的狀態這哪一位可以回答"},{"start":81.138,"end":101.598,"text":"跟委員說明現在目前那個馬丹安溪的驗生物有兩個一個大一個小就是一個大的原來的原本驗生物現在32.5萬噸然後前上個禮拜行程的那個又經過一流潰堤以後剩下5萬噸左右但是因為兩側還有非常多的沙土所以隨時可能好大雨"},{"start":102.739,"end":119.704,"text":"土石在崩的時候隨時還有可能再成為一個新的驗測壺OK 這個農業部長先第一個站出來處理是因為你是土石流的主管機關所以驗測壺你是主管機關是因為這樣嗎不是 我們是馬太安上游的負責我們負責監測跟警示負責監測跟警示 好 謝謝所以現在還不能講說脫離危險狀態對吧"},{"start":121.825,"end":139.991,"text":"對 因為現在目前那個邊坡的土石大概有一萬立方公尺所以隨時有可能不管是地震他再崩下來就會形成新的岩石湖對 如果再崩他就會成成新的謝謝部長的說明再來我要問現在我們在編列特別預算要協助相關的一些重建工程花蓮光復鄉經過地震跟颱風等等大自然基本上改變了水文條件嘛"},{"start":140.911,"end":160.108,"text":"那現在到底從上游是你處理的嘛對不對那到下游包含判斷進到有人居住的地方這整個的規劃哪一些是安全哪一些是危險的分別的風險燈號是什麼這是哪一個單位決定的我想我們從上游的部分我們透過現在目前的專家團隊他會用最"},{"start":162.47,"end":179.1,"text":"風險最大的情況之下如果完全潰堤的時候那它的水量到下游大概會上升多少公分然後根據這個多少公分可能會造成的一些必須疏散的部分是由我們的農業部林保署這邊會先提出一些警訊"},{"start":180.02,"end":206.272,"text":"所以化定安全跟危險等等區也是農業部處理嗎就是我們會給一個建議但是如果說給一個建議那誰來決定當時如果有颱風形成的話應變中心如果成立的話那更會用跨部會根據氣象局的這些資訊去做一個中整的判斷我前面聽了蠻高興的因為至少你整個非常的進入狀況當然這個是已經發生了啦但是你後面這段回答其實就會讓大家比較擔心嘛因為"},{"start":206.932,"end":217.109,"text":"你其實做了很多的監測然後其實你有一定的專家學者的數據作為支撐但是決定的時候你還是要等颱風快來的時候成立一個災害應變中心然後還要做跨部會的協調才能決定不是這樣"},{"start":219.013,"end":241.962,"text":"因為我們發布的時候有黃色有紅色警戒的部分那如果說颱風沒有進來的時候如果下大雨的時候那相對的我們還是會發黃色跟紅色警戒也會畫這個紅色的警戒區域會給縣市政府跟岡地的相似工作我知道但這個就是你是要等應變中心出來才能做這個是嗎沒有沒有還是你本來就做那是哪一個單位做沒有 應變中心"},{"start":242.762,"end":260.88,"text":"成立的時候是應變中心那應變中心成立是有颱風的時候才會成立然後如果沒有颱風只有下大雨的時候就是由農業部農水組會發布黃色或紅色警戒那你就簡單回答基本上評估整個區域的災害風險就是由農業部決定就好了嘛對 不過這個也可以這樣講OK 很好 謝謝"},{"start":262.862,"end":278.673,"text":"這今天特別要提一下把三個人一起找過來就是因為這樣嘛就我們的地震災害由內政部管理對不對我們的水災由經濟部管理剛剛農業部回答比較多因為土石流這個性質上可能比較接近嘛對不對那現在晏色湖你們經過了這一次的事件之後到底有沒有統整一下到底是由誰來管理"},{"start":280.57,"end":301.83,"text":"三位都可以回答沒有關係的燕社伍本身現在目前還是農業部來負責主責好我希望這個事情相對明確啦好不好就是以後既然它已經是一個狀況而且它本來就是很多部位砸在一起嘛然後我們本期是特別在這個預算審查之前提出一些提醒啦就是說未來可能發生這些狀況的時候其實它應該是早一點部署嘛好不好"},{"start":302.25,"end":322.038,"text":"這是本席的一個提醒那再問一個問題就是說之前討論馬太安這個事情的時候曾經有講說工程手段不可行可是後來變道其實也都開出來了嘛對不對那未來如果再發生工程手段不可行等等的一些很難的問題的時候那應對方案啊比如說測村啊等等是哪一個單位負責"},{"start":324.142,"end":340.638,"text":"還是農業部負責嗎我先回答您剛才講的就是工程手段的部分那現在因為它還是在雨季下雨天的時候整個的便道現在還沒有便道只是去攤勘的便道而不是整個要未來要去降蛙的這個便道"},{"start":341.238,"end":361.972,"text":"那等到我們的過了這個雨季的時候我們才有機會往上去看有沒有機會去降蛙我剛講的問題是因為你工程手段不可行所以你可能要做其他的處理可能要提早撤存預警等等下游的部分就會由水利署這邊來協助水利署所以是經濟部決定要不要撤存等等嗎是這個意思嗎"},{"start":362.392,"end":382.305,"text":"不是 水利署是針對河道本身的一個整治的河道本身的整治嘛不是 你講這些大概都是已知啦其實我謝謝部長還算回答的蠻詳細的我希望整個行政院體系啦不管是劉部長也好或者是經濟部農業部的代表陳部長也好都要去思考一下如果他這是一個很嚴重的狀況而且會影響人民的生命財產的時候"},{"start":383.306,"end":407.372,"text":"这个事权的分配干脆明确一点这当然不是你们三个可以在现场决定的但希望把它提到行政院的平台做明确的分工以后好超前部署也不用说等到相关的应变的时候大家再有一些状况我想未来处理这样相关的事情会更好这边就做一些提醒希望行政院可以好好针对这个事情做明确的分工跟详细的讨论可以吗可以好谢谢三位辛苦了好谢谢牛许廷伟"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}