{"error":false,"id":["165643"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":165643,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165643","日期":"2025-11-19","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"聯席會議-11-4-20,15,19,23,26-1","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第4會期財政、內政、經濟、交通、社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1次聯席會議","屆":11,"會期":4,"會次":1,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"聯席會議","委員會代碼":[20,15,19,23,26],"委員會代碼:str":["財政委員會","內政委員會","經濟委員會","交通委員會","社會福利及衛生環境委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第4會期財政、內政、經濟、交通、社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1次聯席會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2025-11-19T13:30:33+08:00","結束時間":"2025-11-19T13:38:02+08:00","影片長度":"00:07:29","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/9c5448532e3833d12c2be2f60cd266857119a7747a4c5c6c662daff7a264498acf300a208d967c955ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"徐富癸","委員發言時間":"13:30:33 - 13:38:02","會議時間":"2025-11-19T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期財政、內政、經濟、交通、社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：審查行政院函請審議「中央政府花蓮馬太鞍溪堰塞湖災後重建特別預算案」。\n【預算提案截止時間：11月18日（二）下午3時】\n【11月19日及20日二天一次會】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":0.55409375,"end":3.8953437500000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11.657843750000001,"end":15.117218750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14.695343750000003,"end":18.12096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":22.76159375,"end":23.402843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":24.719093750000003,"end":26.06909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":26.84534375,"end":30.59159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":30.895343750000002,"end":37.814093750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":38.134718750000005,"end":38.657843750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":38.91096875,"end":49.49159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":51.04409375,"end":55.66784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":54.72284375,"end":55.515968750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":55.88721875,"end":56.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":56.174093750000004,"end":59.05971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":58.30034375,"end":58.85721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":59.04284375,"end":64.89846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":65.18534375,"end":67.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":67.42971875,"end":69.33659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":69.42096875,"end":90.56534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":90.93659375,"end":96.37034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":96.79221875,"end":101.31471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":102.58034375000001,"end":103.40721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":103.49159375,"end":114.66284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":114.88221875,"end":151.45034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":143.29971875,"end":143.62034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":148.75034375,"end":148.86846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":149.54346875000002,"end":158.13284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":158.48721875,"end":188.72721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":188.35596875000002,"end":195.02159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":195.22409375,"end":207.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":195.91596875000002,"end":196.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":207.30659375000002,"end":213.31409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":213.82034375,"end":254.64096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":254.86034375000003,"end":267.28034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":262.89284375,"end":262.90971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":262.90971875,"end":264.14159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":268.30971875,"end":268.32659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":268.32659375000003,"end":269.40659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":272.00534375,"end":272.73096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":272.81534375,"end":277.47284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":277.70909375,"end":281.79284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":282.14721875000004,"end":305.50221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":305.78909375,"end":307.05471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":306.05909375000005,"end":315.22221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":315.55971875,"end":319.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":320.08221875000004,"end":321.98909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":322.15784375000004,"end":328.21596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":328.51971875000004,"end":329.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":330.17346875000004,"end":333.85221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":334.13909375000003,"end":336.38346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":336.51846875,"end":348.12846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":339.65721875,"end":339.92721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":348.31409375000004,"end":356.27909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":356.86971875,"end":359.43471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":359.83971875000003,"end":363.65346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":363.90659375,"end":364.29471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":364.58159375,"end":367.46721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":367.77096875,"end":368.24346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":368.36159375,"end":369.17159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":369.54284375000003,"end":382.73909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":382.97534375000004,"end":390.68721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":391.12596875,"end":423.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":423.94784375,"end":429.61784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":429.61784375,"end":435.37221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":435.65909375,"end":440.38409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":440.60346875000005,"end":448.33221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":448.33221875000004,"end":448.85534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":449.15909375,"end":450.28971875}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.603,"end":4.466,"text":"那接下來我們請許富奎 許委員質詢謝謝主席 有請我們主計長還有財政部莊部長請陳主計長 財政部莊部長委員好主計長好 部長好"},{"start":27.046,"end":36.611,"text":"我想根據我們主計總署跟財政部的一個資料這個目前我們政府長期債務的餘額將近6兆元短期債務是4191億那整體位長的這個債務餘額有6.4兆那平均我們國人的負擔的債務27.4萬請教部長跟主席長這個數字正確嗎"},{"start":56.882,"end":73.628,"text":"我想不管是中央執政還是地方政府這個財政機率的重要性非常的重要我想兩位應該同意這個論調那尤其當然我們現在國人為了解決很多的這個基礎建設也好這個社會福利教育文化"},{"start":74.188,"end":101.076,"text":"我們當然政府也必須投入很多的資金來做這樣的一個改善但是我們現在看到這樣的一個藍白二修財化法之後造成我們中央跟地方市權也好還有整個財務的結構也好財政機率蕩然無存主委長跟部長剛剛那麼多委員在問你們我們想我們行政院的版本也要出爐了未來你們有沒有信心行政院的版本會被我們多數的縣市來支持"},{"start":103.7,"end":123.457,"text":"我們這一次修法有幾個目標那這個目標事實上是對中央對地方都是好而且中央地方的夥伴關係事實上是更加的提升我們修法目標非常明確第一個我們希望國民的生活品質能夠更均衡不管你是生活在鄉村或生活在都市"},{"start":123.857,"end":139.349,"text":"他必須要能夠有一定的生活品質跟公共服務第二個我們的修法目標就是我們的錢權的分配要更合理也就是說中央跟地方之間的財政資源的分配必須要合理第一個地方要強的財政自主的能力那麼也要顧到中央的財政的韌性跟財政的穩健這個必須要做合理還有城鄉之間的分配要更公平不能讓富者越富"},{"start":149.617,"end":168.378,"text":"好 部長那如果依據我們上個禮拜我們立法院通過的這個版本那卓院長也講了如果我們再舉債五千六百億之後那我們換算一下我們國人增加的負擔又多了兩萬多塊所以我們大概會變成我們的國人每個人負債要高達三十萬左右"},{"start":169.019,"end":194.565,"text":"那面對這樣一個困境那剛剛部長也講了我們過去要均衡台灣那我們也擔心許多的這個重要的重大建設尤其是南台灣的重大建設會受到衝擊影響那未來有沒有考慮把我們像農業縣來好屏東縣也好我們的農業漁業的指標這次有沒有把它放進來一併討論是的我們在邀請各地方政府來開會的時候各地方政府也都有表達在這樣的意見尤其是農"},{"start":195.685,"end":211.337,"text":"農林業為主的都有價我們所以這一次在分配的指標裡面會把農林榆木的產值放進去以及人口數也都會放進去這樣子才能夠均衡到地方的發展但聽起來是雙北跟這個北部幾個非農業縣都反對這個版本那以後怎麼處理"},{"start":214.525,"end":218.146,"text":"這個部分我們必須要詳細說明我們知道就是說原來的分配的方式讓原來營地事業的營業額高的他獲配的更多那其實這就是工商發達的城市他本來的財政能力就比較強那我們應該財政那個財化法最主要就是要能夠均衡地方的發展"},{"start":233.57,"end":254.35,"text":"以及做所謂調劑財政的營需那麼對於財政能力比較弱的部分本來就應該要透過中央統籌分配稅款給予比較多的一個挹注讓它能夠發展出來也就是所謂的要有一個均衡的發展各地區的國民必須要有一個基本的生活品質跟良好的公共服務這就是財化法本身就要有具備的精神"},{"start":254.909,"end":266.962,"text":"我想這個未來的路還很長這個過程也很艱辛我想我們要堅持對的方向才能落實這個軍方台灣的一個理念副長跟主長請回那我們有請經濟部我們的賴次長好 請賴次長"},{"start":272.148,"end":295.422,"text":"委員好市長我想你看到圖片上這個這是過去你在擔任水利署長的時候我們屏東這個東港林邊加東沿岸的這個離岸堤那時候因為有水利署跟中央支持我想我們對於這個沿海的這個風浪的侵襲也受到很好的一個保護但隨著年代久遠已經都落下來了而且有些地方那個缺口太大了"},{"start":296.402,"end":310.792,"text":"這幾次颱風我去看了現場已經沒辦法發揮作用有沒有辦法盡快來加高跟強化這個縮小這個艱鉅這個我們絕對會加快那過去感謝因為中央政府有一些能量"},{"start":311.272,"end":336.196,"text":"有預算來支持我們的特別預算所以我們面臨在極端的氣候之下不管是比如說前一陣子包括恆春的這個東門溪的這個滯洪池也是在這個理念之下完成的那未來還有東港 恆春 萬丹很多的治水的工作那屏東縣政府已經有盤點出來優先秩序那我們也會盡量來協助屏東縣政府"},{"start":336.716,"end":355.456,"text":"我知道我們有提出4年1000億的一個整治預算那當然這個我們都希望我們的在野黨也要全力來支持這個畢竟治水不分藍綠我們能夠怎麼樣防害這個極端不要讓我們的極端氣候受到讓我們的環境受到影響但是我們也擔心這樣的一個財化法的修法之後這個"},{"start":356.917,"end":386.056,"text":"布裡面針對這個部分有沒有什麼樣的因應措施這也是我們很擔心的若是未來沒有足夠的能量的話那地方還有很多需要協助治水的但是在這幾年在行政院的這個協助之下開密颱風我們就核定了差不多將近31億元的屏東的一個治理那我前一陣子到屏東去那周縣長也提出來有將近超過70億左右的一個預算的需求"},{"start":386.577,"end":390.477,"text":"那我們會依照優先次序來做分別的一個輔助"},{"start":391.475,"end":416.803,"text":"我想我們都朝前部署做這個因應極端氣候的一個準備那當然也希望中央能夠大力來支持屏東縣政府那尤其這個您在擔任署長期間我想我們系統性的治理從上游包含未來我們也要求水保署林保署到我們的水利署到我們的縣市政府整個從上中下游整個系統性的治水把我們這個最後治水的這個工程能夠把它做到這個"},{"start":417.723,"end":442.871,"text":"盡量減少到我們的危害性我想中央也要發揮最大的力道那當然以我們屏東縣政府的財政該吃爛啦尤其明年最起碼少了四十幾億那未來也期待我們中央能夠大力來支持是 謝謝委員指導其實從96年淹水治理計畫之後我們做了非常多的抽水站那些的抽水站都已經非常的老舊了所以我們就納到這個四年一千億裡面來希望說獲得逐步的改善"},{"start":443.351,"end":445.719,"text":"那我們也希望中央能夠持續的這個經費的這個挹注來協助地方好 謝謝"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}