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教育部政事請劉次長"},{"start":11.951,"end":36.723,"text":"好 次長好今天我們討論這個議題是非常重要都希望說兒少有一個安全的環境來使用當然也必須要去避免到過度的管制而且要避免到用禁止來去代替教育所以今天的內容是在於說不當的內容那因此就首先要問的是教育部這一部分如何去判定不當的內容"},{"start":37.563,"end":46.439,"text":"那這個目前教育部是不是在管理內容啊是不是用學校裡面的iWIN跟不當資訊系統來做防護 是不是"},{"start":47.943,"end":66.51,"text":"首先分開兩個再強調如果是APPAPP的話在我們學術網路上是不能裝置抖音跟小紅書的因為它是大陸製的轉硬體的對你們是用它的平台或是它的APP對不對APP那是不能裝的這清楚了我現在說的是不當內容如果不當內容的網站"},{"start":69.011,"end":92.789,"text":"的內容透過iWIN或透過iWIN的機制我們會那剛才有講可是內在學術網路當中出現的嘛對不對在學校在學校裡面的話他剛才已經有提到的如果他自己有這些的使用的網路他根本就不要受到這個影響那我們繼續往下看今天最重要的事要講的是不當那這個不當的標準是什麼我們看到你在說的有"},{"start":93.59,"end":106.646,"text":"包括色情、暴力、恐怖、血腥、危險的內容跟有害行為的部分呢通通都是要做進行那特別你們還做了一個蒐集到黑名單嘛 對吧那這個黑名單當中呢 目前有哪些名單啊"},{"start":111.25,"end":135.172,"text":"跟會員報告 這個黑名單其實是非常多不只是我們教育部主動發現如果一般的民眾 老師 學生有做這樣的通報但是對 很好 你這些名單但是 重要的是如果有被黑名單的話是不是要有經過一個機制實際上是重點的就是透過iWIN透過iWIN 但是iWIN的標準是什麼我們繼續往下看這邊裡面呢 我說如果一部短影片當中我今天等一下繼續問到它裡面的內容"},{"start":136.573,"end":147.716,"text":"如果一個短影片裡面有持槍射擊伴隨的不雅詞彙因為還有這算不算不當內容我們就來看一看喔這是這些你們的標準在這裡可是因為很含糊其實沒有辦法去做我們現在看它裡面的內容"},{"start":148.763,"end":153.705,"text":"好 这次我们继续再往下看这个地方设计到的枪支操作跟设计爆裂就次长你来看这是不是属于不当的内容"},{"start":178.354,"end":202.809,"text":"各位報告事實上任何的經過檢舉的網址或網站透過iWIN它會有一個審查機制審查機制那還有情節的重大輕重所以你們就等一下跟他講每天有三千萬隻在網路平台上面你們要花多少的能量去做這些事情這就是效率的問題你們針對的目標事實上都不明的問題我們繼續再往下看一個很好笑的"},{"start":204.81,"end":222.322,"text":"你們拿大槍 我們拿小槍所以這樣的話算你陣亡好 你就先下去唉唷 這樣子囉蛤 原來小手槍還可以這樣子用喔這是人們很喜歡看的小孩子都很喜歡看欸 我拿小槍 你們拿大槍你們陣亡媽啦 這麼遠算喔不要跟他計較他也只是個孩子"},{"start":223.363,"end":238.915,"text":"你們幹嘛我拿小槍我最大你們拿大槍你看這樣的行為這樣的行為我們繼續往下看到就停一下這算不算不當的內容"},{"start":242.489,"end":270.574,"text":"無法進來你現在馬上回答不出來這其實就是你看剛剛對我那個涉及的情況是那都還會造成受傷的情形我們繼續看那到底誰來判定呢教育部剛剛你說IWIN對不對IWIN這些部分還有AI防不勝防3000萬支一天耶在所有的這樣的平台當中我們繼續往下看另外我們看到的是教育部長在10月份的時候有被立委問到他說呢抖音這些有這種不當的訊息傳播"},{"start":271.954,"end":278.441,"text":"也有不當的性別障礙 但是最重要的是有許多跟學習比較無關的內容也會從這邊拿去做相關的設計但請問一下 連學習無關也要當作是一個要不就禁的內容嗎"},{"start":284.807,"end":302.494,"text":"這是部的立場還是個人部長的立場我想委員部長講的是針對我們教育部的學術網路他那部分對一般的網站並沒有這樣子所以你剛才呈現到教育部只能在學校裡面的使用用Tenet來去進行影響對不對"},{"start":304.375,"end":327.213,"text":"排除掉 但是在一般的人們當中都沒有嘛這就是非常重要的問題 你們就是防不勝防一直做了無效的動作啊 可是等一下當然最重要就是在媒體素養的部分啦 我就跟大家講 包括 等一下想 剛剛在說學校那在家長層面你們有數位工具包 那就要下載去進行那請問推廣的成效如何 下載數如何 使用率又怎麼樣現在有評估了嗎"},{"start":329.161,"end":338.667,"text":"那個我們 我剛才有看到一個數據我們數回報一天有一萬多看一下一天有一萬多啊 這麼熱門嗎這數據要經過認證的喔暫時間暫停一下"},{"start":344.235,"end":360.925,"text":"現在目前我累積的喔來了那個是這樣那個數位包上面到六月份到現在已經有一萬五千人瀏覽了一萬五千人然後我們也在有沒有下載瀏覽跟下載是一回事吧你沒有下載你怎麼去處理啊"},{"start":361.645,"end":377.806,"text":"不好意思委員我補充一下我們的數位工具包它是一個操作手冊那就是提供家長有那個iPhone的手機或是其他Android的手機怎麼用手機有的那一種家長防護親子帳號的功能去做這樣的一個"},{"start":378.407,"end":394.057,"text":"但是你沒有辦法 你是他有瀏覽但是沒有辦法認定說他的使用率會如何對不對你們有做後面的後續嗎是 委員這方面我們會盡力去好 這就涉及到你的預算了你們有沒有效果 事實上這部分是應該要打大找舌扣的當然這個分級的部分 請一下速發部的主秘"},{"start":402.574,"end":413.899,"text":"是 委員好請問一下你們有提到說今年年底的時候要提出建立的這個APP的分級制度有這個危害兒少的疑慮的部分那請問現在的進度如何"},{"start":418.822,"end":436.364,"text":"這個APP的分級制度如果是我們部長之前有提到的那我們就會在年底以前就把這個東西妳好像很不熟悉是嗎我們現在是有在盤點這個相關遊戲的年底現在不到一個半月了耶有有有那我們現在其實主要是透過兩種方式啦一個是"},{"start":437.945,"end":461.363,"text":"危害這個國安的部分來處理另外是遊戲分級的主要的部分來處理這樣子主要是從這兩個面上那你們分級會大概分成幾類就分成這兩類嗎大概是好 這一部分喔應該時間到了所以這邊你們應該其實應該很快要有這個報告出現給北本席那當然就是剛才那三個部分的話這三支我現在只放兩片而已啦請問這算不算不當內容"},{"start":463.536,"end":482.728,"text":"這個要有專業的判斷對就是因為今天是不當內容就是可以都可以去做沒有人判斷的沒有人做一個標準判斷的話就形成會過度的去限制尤其是剛才所說的一個創意的這個內容上面其實我剛才還問一下教育部或是現在問一下速發部這邊如果是真的學習有害的部分"},{"start":483.388,"end":504.03,"text":"像我們在看到的K-POP他們這種很多創意的那種他跟學可能學習無關這部分很多被禁掉啦所以請兩個部說三個部會通通要最最他是不是哪些是真正叫不當內容必須要提出來真正的一個標準出來這部分進度哪邊在哪個項目我們繼續往下看這不剛才說的每天有三千部的"},{"start":504.671,"end":534.031,"text":"三千萬隻的影印在這裡請教育部跟速發部這邊都要清楚怎麼去編啊怎麼去管啊 實在是沒有效的啊那我們繼續再往下看所以請教育部跟速發部要提供著這個書面報告給本席明確的定義跟清楚的規劃速發部這邊可以嗎可以啊好 在今年年底之前有新的APP的情形執行那我們再繼續再往下看的是說屬於教育部的次長請由次長到這邊來謝謝 謝謝速發部的主秘"},{"start":536.024,"end":548.223,"text":"很重要的 剛才所提到的講到了媒體素養 科技資訊等等這跟數位素養都是一樣的嗎定義是一樣的嗎 不一樣吧那你可以說出來一個嗎科技素養跟媒體素養的差異性"},{"start":550.418,"end":578.83,"text":"科技素養是代表全面性的科技資訊素養屬於數位學習跟AI那一部分那媒體素養我是資訊素養那媒體素養讓師生多了解還有家長多了解所謂的是變成什麼是假訊息還有一些對所以如果事實上我問一個非常重要的問題在我們108課當當中有一個科技資訊與媒體素養"},{"start":580.551,"end":606.832,"text":"這裡面當中其實你看所說的科技還包括的是數位這些部分最重要其實就是在媒體的素養就是它的試讀能力對不對但是你們在編預算的時候我們往下看這邊已經講到的師大的林玉鵬教授說導致的因為定義不清楚這是媒體的素養這部分不清楚而且形成了這樣很多的額外的負擔容不上各個教育平台是分散的更重要的是因為它定位不明"},{"start":607.532,"end":630.982,"text":"你們剛才說了四個 其實媒體只有十七種 可是最重要是在媒體的部分教育現場是無所適從啊 還更重要的是有沒有看到把他的預算拿出來看的時候啊就以你們這麼多頁的這個部的一百一十五年就是我們等一下就要審的部分就可以看到用媒體素養下去看的時候才零欸以這個預算才零欸 可是事實上你們可能編在三部在各個地方 那請問一下一一五年到底能編的多少"},{"start":635.063,"end":655.712,"text":"跟委員報告我們媒體素養部分在15年的話是將近4千萬的部分在做推動那是有個專門的地方呈現出來嗎不好意思因為它這個經費的話是在各個市處的部分這部分確實要請 要做報告出來不然你們預算的時候這是看不到你又是剛剛您說的這麼重要的媒體素養才是適度能力才是重要的嘛"},{"start":656.272,"end":676.87,"text":"好 這部分我們繼續往下看的是如果這邊的把請教育部一定要注意到媒體素養那個相關這個獨立的項目必須要把它獨立出來特別說是你要做個加注不然是沒辦法去認識出來的那這邊呢我們就看到的是現在可能真的看到的是媒體素養已經變成一個附屬的概念包括是怎麼樣的一個成效測程時數跟學習減和指標"},{"start":678.752,"end":693.964,"text":"應該要提出來 是在預算的時候一定要做出來一定要補上來 現在有沒有有沒有這樣的一個這些時數跟課程減核指標我們是應該都有 我們都有都有相關的課程那你學期減核指標有嗎沒辦法進行所以就是沒有嘛 竟然的"},{"start":703.467,"end":717.686,"text":"媒體素養這麼大 識別這麼重要才是最後把關的部分應該把這邊的檢核指標呈現出來不然是沒有效的包括現在所講的 識讀才是最大的關鍵那我們最後希望是說包括了這些課程當中這個去年是100 112年有94場113年有86場"},{"start":721.511,"end":743.218,"text":"次數都還比較少場次比較少這個對於教師的培育也是不夠的數量不增房減這是事實喔這部分也要去知道這個效果那最後就是剛才效果已經知道了包括這些部分的數值指標教育基地學校你剛才說好像只有4所如果我這樣看的話我幫你找出來了事實上有這麼多所114年有46所這邊都是需要加強的最後就是"},{"start":744.998,"end":759.313,"text":"我要最後做一個結論再來說支持而少的對於他們保護在網路上面的不能把他寫成禁止跟屏蔽你定義一定要做清楚啊制度一定要這樣完整沒有效的三千萬隻怎麼又問你們現在用的禁止平台"},{"start":760.194,"end":783.177,"text":"家學校能夠管 其他他還有很多地方家裡甚至他自己用手機就可以培養執行你要有效 要有績效的部分教育也要到位特別的老師的部分 課程的部分通通要讓他以教育回到你最大的本位好嗎 是的 是的好 這邊是不是能夠給這個部分是不是在12月中旬給一個報告是是是 會的會的好 OK 好 謝謝大家一起加油"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}