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10:39:38","會議時間":"2025-11-20T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查委員翁曉玲等18人擬具「法院組織法第一百零六條條文修正草案」案。\n二、審查委員翁曉玲等18人擬具「法院組織法第八十三條條文修正草案」案。\n三、審查委員翁曉玲等31人擬具「憲法訴訟法第十八條條文修正草案」案。\n四、審查司法院函送「法庭錄音錄影公開播送實施辦法」案。\n【僅進行詢答】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.03096875,"end":1.0265937500000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1.51596875,"end":2.1234687500000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5.262218750000001,"end":9.025343750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14.00346875,"end":20.820968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21.04034375,"end":23.36909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":23.57159375,"end":57.87846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":59.56596875,"end":60.44346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":64.02096875000001,"end":75.27659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":70.16346875,"end":70.60221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":75.88409375,"end":79.29284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":80.08596875,"end":83.14034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":83.76471875,"end":98.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":98.73284375,"end":99.03659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":99.03659375000001,"end":99.42471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":99.42471875000001,"end":99.44159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":99.44159375000001,"end":111.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":99.50909375,"end":99.71159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":107.38971875,"end":148.68284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":114.03846875,"end":114.39284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":117.07596875,"end":117.71721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":120.16409375,"end":120.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":124.24784375,"end":125.74971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":125.90159375,"end":126.30659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":126.54284375,"end":126.98159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":131.41971875000002,"end":132.04409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":150.06659375,"end":158.23409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":158.57159375,"end":186.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":187.93409375000002,"end":211.17096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":211.67721875,"end":213.93846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":214.24221875,"end":214.90034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":216.26721875,"end":216.28409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":216.28409375,"end":216.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":216.38534375,"end":216.41909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":217.48221875000002,"end":218.88284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":219.49034375000002,"end":235.16721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":220.51971875,"end":220.78971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":235.55534375000002,"end":242.59221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":243.03096875000003,"end":256.19346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":256.19346875,"end":256.21034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":256.21034375,"end":256.34534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":256.63221875,"end":256.96971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":256.96971875,"end":283.32846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":260.04096875,"end":261.42471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":283.85159375,"end":298.95471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":294.22971875,"end":294.41534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":299.68034375,"end":311.71221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":312.65721875,"end":322.42784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":322.73159375,"end":323.50784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":323.50784375,"end":323.52471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":323.59221875000003,"end":363.70409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":363.01221875000005,"end":367.99034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":366.65721875,"end":371.83784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":371.83784375000005,"end":371.85471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":372.91784375000003,"end":401.75721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":375.71909375,"end":376.19159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":384.35909375,"end":386.02971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":386.63721875000005,"end":387.53159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":402.49971875,"end":411.98346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":406.22909375,"end":407.83221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":412.65846875000005,"end":417.56909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":418.09221875000003,"end":423.15471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":423.25596875,"end":450.54284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":450.45846875,"end":451.20096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":450.59346875000006,"end":453.86721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":454.20471875000004,"end":484.32659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":454.54221875,"end":456.16221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":483.83721875000003,"end":484.30971875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":484.32659375000003,"end":484.66409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","s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我們想今天主要是針對本席所提出來的憲法訴訟法的條文來進行討論當然我也看了司法院的報告在這邊我有幾個意見我想要跟王富明這裡討論首先雖然說在你的報告裡面還有包含剛剛的檔案局的主命也都說了"},{"start":37.575,"end":57.505,"text":"目前機關共同性檔案保存年限基準裡面其實已經有做了備註我剛剛仔細聽了原來它並不是修正而是說特別是就死刑品一部的部分它是做一個備註說那個部分可以永久保存但是我想請教就是機關共同性檔案保存年限基準它的法律性質是什麼它是法律嗎"},{"start":64.059,"end":79.19,"text":"還是它是一個行政規則這是一個職權命令不是法律對嘛 它基本上就是一個行政規則嘛是 對不對那麼既然是行政規則的話那原則上就是這個機關 行政機關它想要改的時候它隨時它就可以改啊"},{"start":80.114,"end":98.034,"text":"他不需要經過二立法院的同意對不對所以今天我們講說是這死刑評議部現在他是用備註方式永久保存說不定這也不是或許有可能他以後他死刑評議部他說不需要永久保存保存20年就好了"},{"start":98.795,"end":113.443,"text":"有沒有這個可能性所以報告委員就是結論上的話就是修這個在法組法修106條這個司法院也完全沒有意見也沒有意見嘛 只是說我知道你們的意思是說目前的行政目的是有做到"},{"start":113.903,"end":133.194,"text":"只是說那本行當然是更早的時候就提出來希望能夠把這個事情明文化然後定在法律裡面那這樣就那這樣的話就更能夠就彰顯就是說對它的明確性那麼同時呢也符合大法官現判字的這個意旨就是未來的死刑的部分"},{"start":134.235,"end":148.432,"text":"就是要了解當時法官所做的議決的這個情況所以我想這樣的一個修法當然沒有什麼太大的問題最後就看我們立法院這裡要怎麼做那麼接下來還有一個部分就是"},{"start":150.24,"end":167.578,"text":"對於這個書狀類的要公開那麼我剛剛在提案說明的時候我其實已經有講了就是為什麼當時認為說司法院的這個書狀類要公開那也是因為這個篇幅的限制基本上很不合理"},{"start":167.958,"end":173.625,"text":"而這也是屬於就憲法法庭自己內部的一個行政規則就做了這樣的限制那但是在你們的說明裡面說你們認為說整個書狀公開資訊會過於龐雜無益於憲法議題的思辨的立法目的達成坦白說我針對這句話我是有意見的"},{"start":188.501,"end":214.744,"text":"資訊越多越公開它其實可以滿足各個不同人民對於資訊的這樣的一個需求跟渴望你不能夠說用你們自己的憲法法庭的角度去認定哪一個憲法議題是對人民的思辨有利哪些議題是對人民的思辨是不必要的我覺得這樣的論斷是不是過於快了"},{"start":217.806,"end":237.438,"text":"那個要說明嗎好是第一個先向那個委員報告的時候其實世界上就是有設憲法法院的那個國家我們去看了一下他那個立法例大部分是歐洲像那個德國或是奧地利比利時跟那個我們查了"},{"start":239.559,"end":252.603,"text":"韓國韓國跟我們相近的韓國就是他們的書狀都不需要公開的那當時我們在修限數法的時候事實上已經有擴大了那擴大了就是說選重要的像那個申請狀這個答辯狀這一類的那"},{"start":256.764,"end":282.666,"text":"好 了解 就是說當然其他國家的國情可能不見得是不一樣不見得他們有像我們憲法法庭有做了一些奇奇怪怪的一些規定那麼我要講就是說如果說從資訊公開的角度來看然後更何況現在技術不是問題所有的現在的書類的各式各樣的檔案它上傳到整個系統上面不會有所謂的空間不足的問題"},{"start":283.945,"end":311.329,"text":"所以资讯公开这件事情很容易做到书状类公开也很容易做到它不会说是会影响到增加多少宪法法庭的负担而这样子的一个书状的公开我觉得真的是可以帮助更多的人民那么他可以更了解宪法法庭的运作以及在这个审理的过程当中大家不同方的一个思辨一个辩论的过程"},{"start":313.028,"end":328.658,"text":"那麼本席認為說這個部分的話是有必要的啦而且也不會有所謂耗費審判行政人力的時間成本的問題這個我們可能從司法行政的端有不一樣的觀察因為現在目前"},{"start":329.358,"end":355.561,"text":"就是只是那個裁判書公開他為了就是說這些個資的那個遮影事實上就耗掉我們非常非常大的司法行政成本因為必須把那個相關的那個個資就是把他那個遮影才能夠對外那個公開啊那這個個資有時候事實上他不是只是出現譬如說像王梅英這樣一個名字他事實上是有上下就是那個脈絡沒有出現名字但是從上下那個比對可以知道說這個個資是誰吼那所以"},{"start":357.322,"end":367.871,"text":"就是說光是裁判書公開這樣一個事情就耗掉我們那個就是書記官這一端不過就是憲法法庭的案件也沒有像一般的法院的案件這麼多但是這個是書狀那所以說書狀這些內容非常非常那個多"},{"start":373.556,"end":400.634,"text":"所以就是司法這部分的話就是你們在整個的這個系統的精進還有怎麼樣能夠讓剛剛講的像這個資訊要去識別化你們可能要想一個更好的方法然後去做認定去改善那樣的一個作業程序可是你不能講說因為我的行政的作業程序很複雜那這下我很多的負擔所以呢我有些東西我就選擇性的哪些書狀要公開哪些書狀就不公開那同樣的問題我想接下來請的黃市長"},{"start":403.116,"end":410.76,"text":"在檢察官的書類的部分同樣的問題就是對於檢查書類的公開的部分你們今天認為說如果說檢查書狀的公開可能會違反無罪推定原則偵查不公開"},{"start":423.528,"end":444.394,"text":"等等這些原則那本席要講就是偵查不公開跟無罪推定這個就是刑事訴訟法的基本原則那本席也這個認為這樣的原則很重要應該要維護可是這些原則也不是可以無限上綱對你們現在這個地檢署不是常常也會在一個重大案件偵查終結起訴之後你們也會公開相關透過新聞稿的方式去公開起訴書的內容不是嗎那這個就沒有違反"},{"start":452.876,"end":481.036,"text":"偵查不公開嗎就沒有違反無罪推定嗎對 各位報告 偵查不公開他要權衡很多的法例啦這案件的進行還有這個無罪推定還有整個訴訟關係人的民意隱私安全他所作出一個折衝的規定所以偵查不公開辦法裡面有的原則又例外 例外又再例外相關規定來折衝相關的法例的權衡所以我應該講沒有錯他有例外 但是他又必須要有個特殊的考量法律要特別明文規定 基於公義上的目的"},{"start":481.596,"end":509.231,"text":"他才可以做一個特別處理但是我們現在是我們現在的草案是全面性的公開是 為什麼要全面性的公開因為其實本席已經常常聽到有律師事務界的朋友或者說有些老百姓就會質疑為什麼看起來是同樣類似的犯罪事實的案子那麼但是呢最後檢察官會卻做了不同的的一個判斷可能有些是起訴有些是不起訴或是緩起訴"},{"start":510.211,"end":524.114,"text":"但是會大家會很confused不知道為什麼檢察官今天會對於類似案件非常相近的這個應該是說他事實非常相近的案子有些卻做了起訴有些卻做了不起訴"},{"start":525.39,"end":547.319,"text":"那我想檢察官的起訴書也應該是要可受這個公平可受大家去監督的就算是說你們自己講說你們內部有經過什麼復譯啊還有一個內部的一個審查的機制可是這也還是存在於你們內部啊外界也並不知道他到底檢察官今天有沒有可能有包庇有持案等等這些狀況"},{"start":548.399,"end":574.908,"text":"各位報告 如果起訴的話當然經過法院review的機制去審核不起訴或緩起訴事實上我們除了內控機制之外告訴人他也可以申請准許提起自訴透過一個外部法院監督立案來監控假官的不起訴處分書所以在制度選擇上不是只有內控的機制他有外控的機制來監督假官的這個不起訴處分的結果另外本期要講的就是因為我們現在講的是偵查終結嘛"},{"start":576.268,"end":600.235,"text":"終結之後然後才將一些偵查書類公開既然是偵查終結就是代表在這個段落在這樣子的一個情況下他現在已經這個偵查告一段落了所以他應該把他現在目前偵查的這個狀況然後公開這個部分的話這個會跟之後的你們說又會有後面的什麼要追究什麼"},{"start":602.196,"end":625.233,"text":"因為偵查終結檢察官做的不起訴處分之後告訴人他是可以對不起訴處分或緩起訴提起救濟的這個一旦救濟的話他高檢署甚至法院他有可能會不支持檢察官做的不起訴或緩起訴他會發回來我們地檢署重新再行偵查又回復到偵查程序當中這時候又要有偵查不公開的限制了不過就是說我們從整個的這個"},{"start":629.756,"end":645.223,"text":"這個偵查書類公開的角度來看的話其實就是這個部分最重要的就是希望能夠讓老百姓知道檢察官在相關案子裡面他們的作為是如何"},{"start":646.528,"end":660.422,"text":"對 那麼這當然任何一個政策一個法律的修正它都有利弊得失的考量那現在的問題就是人民對於司法就太不信任了總覺得很多的案子是不是檢察官可能就一手遮天"},{"start":661.483,"end":680.226,"text":"那明明該起訴的 但他不起訴對 那麼這個問題我覺得很嚴重那麼更何況我們現在講了就是你現在法院組織法第80條83條第一項 第二項對法院的裁判書有公開而且已經有講了如果說法律有除外規定有去識別化等等這些另外規定的話這些都是可以做的"},{"start":680.746,"end":697.732,"text":"這不是不能做當然就像剛剛王複密說的這可能會增加行政成本可是我想增加這個行政成本如果他是有利於讓人民更了解司法讓司法資訊更為透明那我認為這樣子的一個付出一個負擔其實是有必要的"},{"start":698.312,"end":724.412,"text":"對 跟委員報告 要監督檢察官是否起訴適當或不起訴是否適當其實訴訟法上它就有它的相關的監督機制啦如果透過公開疏內的方式它其實不是一個最好的方式更何況它會有剛剛講很多法律的權衡的結果其實不見得 剛剛委員提到很多人想公開搞不好有更多的訴訟關係的人他是不願意被公開的如果我們全面性的公開揭露的話是不是對這些人的權益會產生很大的影響呢"},{"start":725.029,"end":732.997,"text":"不過就是說一般的法院判決這個做成之後他也是都全面公開嘛就是說這些你剛講的一些訴訟的利害關係他可能也是會呈現在的判決書中他當然透過去識別化等等的一些做法還是可以達到所以現在法院判決書都這麼做請訴書也是在一審判決之後他也會公開"},{"start":748.632,"end":764.147,"text":"對 所以我們認為維持現狀其實是比較妥適的是 好 那麼最後還有一點點時間謝謝王次長我再請教王富密我們知道其實在今年的十一月的時候十一月初有一位最高法院的法官前庭長周銀文法官那麼因為這個"},{"start":768.651,"end":792.717,"text":"懷疑是高血壓引發腦出血送醫急救這當然就是又引起了本席對於司法官人力的一個問題的關心那麼長期來說就是過去都認為法官過勞那麼在之前也曾經有司法院有在推動是不是一個法官一助理那麼目前為止有經做到所謂一法官一助理嗎"},{"start":794.424,"end":815.403,"text":"謝謝委員關心就是我們那個法官權益的部分目前一個法官一個助理這個是有的是有的幾乎全面性都已經做到了除了就是說比較技術性的問題譬如說像那個庭長他沒有辦全部跟法官一樣多的案件所以說庭長跟審判長大概是三個人配一個"},{"start":819.326,"end":839.919,"text":"這個司法人力配置還有他結構的問題本席認為很重要那麼我希望就是說你們可以再提供給本席就是近五年來全國各級法官的聘用合約用的法官助理人數的佔比法官助理的流動率等等那麼另外呢其實本席有聽到有接獲一些訊息就是像是"},{"start":841.099,"end":862.483,"text":"有些少家庭的法官他們負擔非常大非常沉重請你們也提供相關的數據給我目前法院裡面有少家庭法官的人數以及在整個法院裡面的人數的比例請給我一份相關的數據好 謝謝委員"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}