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我們不管我們駐日本的我們的代表處或者是跟他們的外務省之間都有對這個事情有交換意見那在這個意見上面的交換我們雙方是有做出什麼樣的一個表達或者是在這個互信互動上面有什麼樣的一個態度能夠跟我們現在大眾來做一個進一步的說明"},{"start":76.589,"end":96.212,"text":"陳儒高市早苗首相他講他言所當言那他講了也不會收回但是因為講了這個話可能有一些引起的反應這個也要好好去因應嘛尤其是中共的反應那這一點當然我們作為理念相近國家之間也都會溝通"},{"start":97.093,"end":111.148,"text":"所以是日方這裡的這個代表向台灣方面有談到就是說呢即便這句話不會收回但他們對於中國大陸這邊呢還是會去再向他們做進一步的溝通是這個意思嗎是 所以"},{"start":112.409,"end":134.977,"text":"日本政府他們外務省也派了代表有到北京 但目前看起來並不是很順利的狀況之下但是這個行動本身就代表一個善意嘛對 派人去了嘛 要去跟他溝通不想讓這個事情因為誤會或失控所以說在這個部分上面日方跟台灣這邊也有進行一些互動他們當然也會讓我們知道我們當然也呼籲把中共要克制"},{"start":139.7,"end":162.22,"text":"那另外就是說除了這個高市早苗他的聲明之外那我們雙邊還會不會有一些比較積極的作為我舉個例子來說那先前他講的是如果台灣有事那就是日本有事那現在開始看起來這個中國大陸他們是把這個目標對準了這個日本不管在經濟上的或是軍事演習上的"},{"start":162.62,"end":171.225,"text":"那請問在台灣同樣的角度來說那我們會也採取這個日本有事台灣有事這樣子的一個說法嗎因為中共就是說軍事的擴張是針對台灣跟第一島鏈所有國家"},{"start":181.031,"end":199.073,"text":"對 但他這一次的主要的方向就是針對日本嘛因為每一次可能不一樣他當然他的這個引爆點是因為他講到的台灣這個兩岸之間的關係但問題是他這一次主要針對的對象呢就是不管在經濟上的打擊或者是他在這個演習上的方面都是針對日本"},{"start":200.094,"end":210.813,"text":"那我要問的是當高市早苗首相他說台灣有事日本有事的時候那我們的態度請問會說出日本有事就是台灣有事這樣子的說法嗎"},{"start":211.397,"end":230.007,"text":"因為中共如果要找事的話大家都會有事啊因為他就是對台灣平常就這樣其實就在現在他雖然在這個黃海軍演啦他的基建也都是不斷的侵入我們的所以我要問的事情是說我們會配合日方採取同等的軍事行動嗎"},{"start":233.129,"end":251.539,"text":"沒有 他那個邏輯是因為有日美安保條約對啊而美國跟台灣又有台灣關係法某種準同盟的關係好了所以這個當中共對台灣有軍事行動會影響到周邊國家包括日本菲律賓那美國怎麼反應會牽動日本的反應"},{"start":253.5,"end":259.022,"text":"它的架構是這樣子所以前半段說台灣有事就是日本有事其他下半段就是日美安保有事它有日美安保條約日美安保條約之後下一個就是台灣跟美國還有台灣跟日本之間的關係它是分成好幾段然後呢這個間接的串聯在一起的我們都知道"},{"start":273.846,"end":294.861,"text":"那我今天要問的事情是說安保法的危機事件有三種樣態第三種就是一些類似台灣有事日本有事其他還有包括可能日中之間直接有事啊可能美國跟中國之間也發生了一些有事啊所以這個當然台灣都會受影響不要講說純粹的軍事經濟安全各方面都會影響我先問軍事等一下會問你經濟嘛因為它是一層一層來的嘛"},{"start":301.246,"end":315.375,"text":"所以我的意思就是說如果今天中日雙方的衝突升高到軍事的層級的話那台灣這裡從外交的角度來說您會建議採取同等的軍事行動手段嗎"},{"start":316.489,"end":328.898,"text":"這不一樣的我們當然基於台灣的國家的安全的考量去做因應那當然因為第一島鏈都是彼此連動的啦連動歸連動但是比如說我跟委員講台灣的北邊就是宮古海峽那南邊就是巴西海峽我舉個另外一個例子來講以釣魚台來說那中日台三方我們的意見就不一樣"},{"start":339.286,"end":358.235,"text":"所以並不是說只要在第一島鏈上面所有的意見都是一致的很難講像是比如說我們在這個南海或東海來講的話其實也不見得大家的想法是一致的是既合作那又有競爭的關係這個其實是比較正確的說法嘛那只是說兩岸之間的關係尤為特殊對不對"},{"start":359.916,"end":371.624,"text":"所以我剛聽懂您的意思了另外就是我們會透過外交的方式與包含日本形成一個聯盟來共同對抗中國大陸嗎我們並沒有所謂的條約或集體安全的這個架構目前我知道沒有這個架構未來會不會有這樣的規劃"},{"start":383.888,"end":393.651,"text":"目前就是大家因為第一島鏈某種程度是一個戰場啦只要哪個地方發生軍事的衝突都會連帶影響周邊的國家那我們必須按在我們台灣的立場我們國家利益去做因應"},{"start":401.234,"end":423.43,"text":"我們第一個當然就是我們跟美國有台灣關係法六項保證這個是一種比較準同盟的關係至於我們跟日本跟菲律賓是沒有這樣的一個制度的安排所以我要問的問題就是這個就是說我們因為高市早苗首相的這一番話也掀起了中日的風波在這個突發的事件之後"},{"start":424.491,"end":441.34,"text":"台日之間有沒有可能會組成另外的一個聯盟那採取對抗中國大陸無論是從經濟或外交的手段上面那去進一步的聯合作戰這樣子的一個情況 目前沒有這樣的一個制度性的安排"},{"start":442,"end":459.647,"text":"我只是說因為很多的關係會連動但是也不是零和的就是說我們現在其實我跟委員報告日本跟中國日本跟台灣的關係也可以是平行也可以是有互相交集美國跟中國美國跟台灣的關係也可以平行也可以有一些連動的交集所以這個是很複雜又涉及到我們在印太的第一島鏈沒有集體安全的條約"},{"start":466.41,"end":482.634,"text":"就看雙邊的條約如果有的話我就不需要問這個問題就是因為沒有然後又發生了這個事件所以我才會問說那未來台日之間會不會有形成一個更明確的同盟關係或者是就是維持目前的現狀而已比剛才柯爺這個在問高知早苗的時候更假設性我一定會問一些假設性的問題因為這個scenario"},{"start":495.777,"end":523.286,"text":"這不是假設性的問題是因為如果我們有這樣的規劃的話那台日雙方那一定會先有一個粗淺的互動那有確認雙邊有意願之後才進一步的往前走嘛那所以它不是一個假設性的問題它是看到了這個中日之間的衝突升高而且與台灣有關之後那台日之間有沒有打算或者我方這裡有沒有可能向日本提議組成新一步的同盟"},{"start":523.806,"end":527.13,"text":"我們目前並沒有這樣的制度性的統統的關係這都是惡鬼對話或者是像自民黨內他有2加2的這個對話這樣我就非常了解您的意思了那最後想要請教一個問題喔就是不曉得您有沒有看到在這個週刊最近呢經常喔提到就您跟這個吳釗燮這個國安委會秘書長的關係"},{"start":545.589,"end":547.751,"text":"那坦白說我不知道為什麼這個媒體要不斷的用這樣子的方式然後呢寫這麼多的新聞然後來討論這些事情而且呢其實很多都是比如說放話社外人士說許思簡沒有辦法去美國是林佳龍在擋啊有些國安會議把林佳龍擋在門外啊然後呢這個刻意篩選什麼簡報啊等等細節我不想講因為這都叫做放話"},{"start":574.913,"end":592.352,"text":"我對於這種放話的新聞坦白說我是非常不屑的但為什麼今天要來這裡詢問您就是因為希望讓您有一個說明跟澄清的機會因為這已經是連續好幾次都有這樣子的新聞那我覺得既然我們一直在講台灣要團結中華民國要團結"},{"start":594.835,"end":621.533,"text":"如果今天連我們自己在國安會還有外交部都被內部的新聞人士或者是放話的人做成是像這樣子的內容的話對於我們一致對外絕對會是不利的所以是不是給我們部長一點點時間說明一下就是說到底您覺得為什麼會有這種情況那以及你覺得有什麼方式去改善或者是您的一些看法跟意見"},{"start":622.882,"end":644.159,"text":"報告委員我作為外交部長我很知道外交部的權責那我就是全力把它做好那至於有些媒體的報導有不實我們就澄清那也呼籲因為有一些是真的是與事實很大的出入啦可不可以我們講一下就是說但是標題下得很聳動對 標題很聳動可不可以在這個時間點稍微幫我們講一下說"},{"start":650.564,"end":655.026,"text":"在您看到這些裡面有哪一些與事實不符的因為我今天是希望給外交部一個很好的澄清的機會因為我覺得這些報導對我們的外交對我們的國家並不是好事好不好我跟委員報告就是根據我們的憲法還有我們包括外交部的組織法"},{"start":670.911,"end":692.782,"text":"那我的權責 那我要向立法院負責的我們的預算也是要立法院通過所以我是秉持這樣的原則我找外交部讓他發揮最大的功能至於別人或是其他或各種方式有不一樣的想法或是報導那我們就去說明那就是讓他在一個制度性的軌道上去讓"},{"start":694.423,"end":707.607,"text":"我講的就是壯大外交部就是壯大台灣我們外交也是國安的一部分我知道 因為我時間不夠我是要讓你說明說裡面到底有哪些地方寫是錯誤的嘛那你現在講哪一點比較具體比如說什麼徐思簡沒有辦法派出美國是你在黨"},{"start":722.643,"end":735.426,"text":"這一點來講就是我們外交部都沒有啟動對駐美代表人士的調整嘛這是事實所以我們就盡量的說明事實國安會有一些會議會把你擋在外面說實在弄得我頭很大因為我搞不太清楚他們在講的事情他說呢這個不知道不知會部長室直接通知外交部的單位把你呢擋在門外國安會的會議不讓你參加我覺得這個報導都太過"},{"start":753.271,"end":779.934,"text":"好像有一個天眼或是什麼擋在門外這怎麼可能的事情好然後呢這個台美的高層重要的特殊對話安全議題的平台2023年24年會議都是國安會秘書長跟外交部長一同赴美那今年外交部卻一度差點掉隊然後呢是您極力爭取次長陳明琦才能夠一同前往美國"},{"start":781.255,"end":789.777,"text":"有這件事嗎因為那時候我跟美國的一個溝通對話的管道都很暢通所以說謝謝您把這幾個內容大概就是這樣子然後是做了一個我也覺得很奇怪的報導啦那我也希望如果未來週刊它持續提出這樣子的放話而且不實的消息外交部要考慮除了澄清之外要考慮提高"},{"start":808.86,"end":825.986,"text":"我有抗議你有抗議因為我敢抗議就是代表我自己很清楚它有一些跟事實不合的地方會造成傷害我一定要說明這算是第二次了如果還有第三次跟第四次那您都認為與事實不符除了抗議之外我建議您要"},{"start":827.446,"end":853.821,"text":"更有勇氣去提告因為如果長此以往下去那對於台灣看我們包含我們自己人看外交部國安會以及那你說中國大陸他看外交部跟國安會世界各國看我們外交部跟國安會他看到都是錯誤資訊的時候對我們的國家形象一定是不利的所以這一點我想我支持部長繼續那為對的事情努力好不好謝謝好一起來努力謝謝"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}